Could we benefit from…

[NeoGreen]

… developing some cool sounding words for Atheistic ideas and concepts that would be equivalent to some religious ones?

Let me explain…

The other day I was contemplating the word “Blasphemy”. As an “utterance” it is pretty cool, the sound has a cadence I find appealing. But, the concept: “irreverence towards religious or holy persons or things” (thank you wiki) I think (IMHO) should have an equivlent cool sounding word from our perspective to express something like “ expressing a distaste for reality, or an inablility to accept the world as it is, one who is needful of simple explanations”.

My definition for my example needs help, but my general concept, that we might benefit from an expanded lexicon, where we create our own words to express our own ideas I think is worth of discussion.

I’ve always hated the word “Atheist”. It presupposes deity. It fails to express that fact that being without religion is the natural state. Having a religion is an acquired trait (I wanted to use “taint”).

[Lionessa]

1. HEY BELIEVERS! Take note, I'm not bashing you for a change.

I think you are wrong in your last statement, being without religion is a natural state for non-human beings. But since nearly all societies whether related or not, have centuries upon centuries of various forms of deity-believing and worshiping, I think for humans it is a natural state to believe in gods. I think the fact that we have the language and analytic brains that we have, naturally cause us to seek and if need be imagine answers to our sincerely confusing questions about life, it's meaning, and our place in the world, nay universe.

[PassingFair]

2. We have had centuries upon centuries of ignorance.

The more we know, the less we need to make up.

And you are actually not ALLOWED to bash atheists here.

[Lionessa]

3. I'm an staunch atheist, and I catch plenty here.

That being said, I don't think it has been centuries of ignorance, I think it was centuries of trying to find answers, but then each religion get usurped by money grubbers and insist that their followers remain ignorant, lest they wise up.

But the point is that religious beliefs initiated, imo, in an effort to find answers and to understand the world around them, which is actually counter to searching for ignorance. From so many angles though, it becomes a form of ignorance, and by now as in most developed nations, that ignorance should be waning and instead here in the USA it's growing.

[Starboard Tack]

4. +1 Well said. nt.

[dimbear]

5. An interesting historical question. Do religions start out good and go bad, or do they

start out bad from the egg?

Look at Scientology. Look at the (amazing, grasping, crass) statements of Lord Elron.

Then just extrapolate.

[Lionessa]

6. I don't think all religions can be lumped in this context.

Some clearly started in an effort to extract money from one sect by starting another, but religion as a whole I believe initiated due to curiosity and a desire to understand, not a desire to be ignorant. Additionally, I think it is natural for humans to want answers and in what was originally a natural ignorance, created gods as the answer to life's confusions they didn't understand.

[dimbear]

7. Probably there are exceptions, as you say. But religions write their own histories,

and they clean them up as they go. That's why it's only worth looking at the very recent ones, and I see them all as suspect.

We know the true history of Hubbard, we strongly suspect Joseph Smith, we see the madnesses of Jim Jones and Reverend Moon, and so on and so on.

[AlbertCat]

17. eligious beliefs initiated, imo, in an effort to find answers and to understand the world around the

Indeed.
In the face of profound ignorance, it was all they had and necessary.

But since the scientific method was worked out, it has proven astonishingly successful and these 1st "spiritual" hypotheses need to be rejected. They should have no authority. They needn't disappear but need to change their roles and add quality to our lives the way studying Greek myths or Native American notions add to even an atheist's life.

Of course many ancient civilizations came close to science.... like the Greeks. But, in that case, the learning was elitist and only for the few... Just what the ignorant accuse it of nowadays. But it's available to anyone who wants to delve into science.

The Dark Ages put a hold on learning in the Western world. Some think religion became obsolete in the Renaissance, and others move that date to the Enlightenment. Either way, that ol' time religion is obsolete and needs to change to become relevant. Change or get out of the way.

[NeoGreen]

8. I respectively disagree...

...I do not think believing in "gods" is the natural state, it is more like suffering from a persistent infection. It is no more the natural state than being infected with a virus, like maybe Lyme Disease, something that degrades the host but does not cause an immediate or quick death.

To extend the analogy, this infection can be inoculated against. A healthy does of Reason, at almost anytime in the life cycle, can prevent the God infection.

Gods would not exist without humans, and the natural world has functioned perfectly without humans and, more specifically, without human Gods for millennia.

The natural state of the universe, i.e. reality, is without any God or Gods.

[Lionessa]

9. Then you're not looking accurately at human behavior.

Let's look at children, since one might fairly suggest that children having not fully "learned" are somewhat representative of our "natural" state.

Children believe. They believe that man asking help finding his puppy is a loving person with a lost puppy (until we train them otherwise), they believe their parents have their best interests at heart (though many learn not so, and others for whom it wasn't true die believing it was after horribly dysfunctional lives), and they believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny and Cupid.

It is in our nature to believe in things, we should have outgrown as a nation and society, imo, past that nature, just as I would've hoped by now the imperialistic nature of developed countries had matured, but alas, the USA is quickly running back to the darker ages, religion and belief in mythology being part of that slide.

[mr blur]

10. "they believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny and Cupid."

Only because we tell them these things are real. We fill thair minds with fantasy, whether it's Santa or Jebus.

We are all born atheists, we have to be conditioned to accept fantasy as reality.

[Lionessa]

12. You are missing my point entirely.

I agree with you entirely with what you've said. What I said was something different about the natural state of humanity which is a state open to believing, truths or lies, isn't my point.

So let's not look at children as natural, since you resist. Let's look at all the 99%er wingers who also are pre-disposed it seems to believing without critical thought. Seems natural to them just as it is with children. Seems to me humans have to be taught about critical thinking instead of believing, hence believing is natural and critical thought is advanced.

[mr blur]

16. You're right - I was.

And now that I've read your post as carefully as I should have done the first time, I have to agree with you re. "believing is natural and critical thought is advanced."

[AlbertCat]

14. somewhat representative of our "natural" state.

The natural state...FOR CHILDREN. Not the "natural state" for an adult.

You seem to be suggesting that our "natural" state is a blank slate and we learn everything. This is nonsense. One must at least be born with an ability to learn. If you were born a "blank slate" you would remain one. We know language is an instinct. There are most likely many others, that turn on and off at various stages of development, but they are hard to get at, because they are de rigueur we just aren't aware of them.

Children are "programed" to believe authority figures. (like new-borns are "programmed" recognize faces) This doesn't last, as I'm sure many parents are aware.

[Lionessa]

15. Just my opinion. We are way to complex a species to ever know what our true

natural state is, or whether it's even the same for all humans. We cannot, simply cannot know, we can only opine.

The thing is, when I read your post, you're really seeing the same thing I am, but simply interpreting what you see differently. I'm not sure any amount of discussion will change that. Kind of like art, the human psyche both individually and collectively is beyond our ability to analyze accurately and becomes a matter of personal taste or opinion, which is really just an extension of the community we affiliate with, and around in circles we go again.

I guess it's really quite a chicken and egg kind of dilemma. Either way, it's time as a society to mature past feeding Santa to our children, as well as looking realistically at the world around us and finding solutions, rather than thinking some sky daddy is is somehow going to make everything okay if only we all agree to be dirt poor for a little while longer, and vote anti-choice.

[OriginalGeek]

11. a word for “expressing a distaste for reality, or an inablility to accept the world as it is,..."

“...one who is needful of simple explanations”?


I believe that word is: Republican.

[NeoGreen]

13. Aye...

...it is, but the word doesn't have an appealing cadence... or an appealing anything for that matter...