why isn't Bernie running as an independent

[wilt the stilt]

His whole career he has been an independent why should he run as a democrat.

[daleanime]

1. And split the vote....

[wilt the stilt]

2. if you are true to your ideals

then you should remain an independent.

[NRaleighLiberal]

6. Bernie's principles and ideas are solidly left wing, Democratic, liberal.

To win an election in this country as it is, there is no reason to not run in the party that is entirely reflective of one's principles and ideas.

[wilt the stilt]

10. he states the party is morally bnkrupt

why should he lead a party he considers morally bankrupt

[NRaleighLiberal]

13. so we settle for luke warmed more of the same? Sorry - I want real change.

I know it won't be easy - but it has to start somehow, somewhere.

[Ed Suspicious]

59. It is morally bankrupt. We're taking it back.

[wilt the stilt]

28. Maybe he should have joined the party

instead of just using it for his own ambition.

[NRaleighLiberal]

30. his own ambition? aw, forget it.

[mythology]

86. Everybody who runs for President is ambitious

It takes more than a little ambition to think that you are good/smart/strong enough to be President. It's always wrapped up in the notion of serving, but nobody is dragged kicking and screaming into running for President.

I get that undermines your image of what Sanders is, but it's not like his name just somehow accidentally found itself on the ballot for higher and higher office.

[kristopher]

72. If Hillary were true to her ideals she'd be running as a Republican

NorthEast Republicans have long been socially liberal and economically conservative.

Bernie's positions are solidly - across the board social and economic - liberal.

[JonLeibowitz]

3. Because then he'd be trashed on this very board for Nader-ing the 2016 generals. But you knew that?

[wilt the stilt]

4. irrelevant point

if you are true to your ideals you would remain independent

[JonLeibowitz]

7. An ideal is a position on the issues: equity, fairness, justice, liberty, etc.

Political party affiliation is not an ideal.

[senz]

12. THANK YOU.

That should be emblazoned all over DU.

[bvf]

25. Perfectly stated.

It's amazing that people don't understand this. OTOH, some people pretend not to understand it, just so they can try a little shit-stirring.

Judging from the number of recs here, I think our friend has failed miserably.

[wilt the stilt]

32. One should reap the rewards that the party brings you

by contributing to the party and not just use it when it suits your ambition.

[JonLeibowitz]

44. W T F ????

Elected representatives should accept the breadcrumbs that the party leadership gives you? No, fuck that.

Elected representatives should represent their core political beliefs and fight for them. If voters don't like that, it's simple, the constitution provided a way to replace them: voting.

The founding fathers were opposed to the formation of political parties exactly for horseshit like this.

[draa]

51. You really need to pay attention to what Sanders has done for the Democratic Party.

Committee on the Budget (Ranking Member)
Committee on Environment and Public Works Subcommittee on Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
Subcommittee on Green Jobs and the New Economy
Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure

Committee on Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on Energy
Subcommittee on National Parks
Subcommittee on Water and Power

Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Subcommittee on Children and Families
Subcommittee on Primary Health and Aging (Ranking Member)

Committee on Veterans' Affairs

Each of those committees he's on is for the Democratic Party. NOT the Independent Party. He was appointed to those committees by Democrats and he's the Ranking Member on a couple as you can see.

That list alone is more than most Democrats do for their party, much less an Independent who supposedly, according to you, had no loyalty to our party.

[draa]

45. Brilliantly stated.

[dgibby]

66. Same goes for the Party, then, right?

If the Party was true to its ideals, it wouldn't be moving so far to the right that it could be mistaken for GOP light.

[Juicy_Bellows]

5. He wants to win and not play spoiler. Simple. Nt.

[wilt the stilt]

14. So he number one ideal is power

because he is using a party he never worked for.

[Juicy_Bellows]

49. He number one ideal is power. Yep.

See post #7 - Thanks Jon, you said it all.

[HassleCat]

8. He will accept the risk

By running as a Democrat, he accepts the low odds of winning the nomination. He could run as an independent and guarantee himself some votes in the general election, but he will not ruin the deal for Hillary Clinton, or our party.

[senz]

9. Because he didn't want to split the vote and help elect a Republican.

And before you say a WORD about "ideals" try to comprehend that not electing Republicans is one of his ideals.

He cares about the American people.

[wilt the stilt]

24. He cares about Bernie

He works for Bernie. If you want to run as a démocrat then maybe you should sometime in your life work for the good of the party. He does nothing but trash the party. It is a two way street.

[senz]

34. Nonsense. You know nothing about Senator Sanders

and frankly, the very thought of trying to inform you is tiring for me right now.

So adios.

[think]

83. Do you think single payer is an important issue? How about too big to fail banks being broken up?

Or doing something about the wealth gap that is larger than it's ever been?

Do you care more about issues or party politics?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

11. Why is Hillary running as a conservative?

[NRaleighLiberal]

15. reworded - "why isn't Hillary running as a Republican"?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. Finesse, Finesse.

[wilt the stilt]

19. She has been a very loyal democrat

and spent years working for the party.

[Karma13612]

82. Yea, of the third way repug-lite

Wing of it.

Bernie is more democrat than 3rd way Hillaray.

[7wo7rees]

57. Well said/asked.

[mog75]

77. K & R

[JonLeibowitz]

16. Thread winner!

DUzy!!

[wilt the stilt]

17. she has been a loyal democrat

and spent hours and years building the party. Is it right for someone who has never worked for the party to take advantage of everyone else's work.

[NRaleighLiberal]

20. shouldn't it be about what's best for the American people?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. Obviously it's what's best for Hollowry.

[riversedge]

84. More name calling from a Sanders supporter of a good Democrat. Shame on you.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

85. She's an empty suit. The problem is you refuse to see it.

Deal with it.

[wilt the stilt]

35. Then run as an independent

nothing is stopping him. He just wants the rewards of the party without ever contributing to the party.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

21. Oh, what sad sack handwringing. "It's her turn, dammit!"

May the best candidate win.

[NRaleighLiberal]

23. cult of personality runs strong with some....

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

26. Yep. I'm surprised we haven't seen beach pictures, and fawning praise that HRC

deigned to look in their direction.

[hrmjustin]

27. And some of us think she is the most qualified.

[bvf]

71. Why?

[Kalidurga]

29. Yes I felt that loyalty in 1998

when welfare reform was destined to kick many poor families to the curb. And again when she took money from for profit prisons. And again just so very recently she turned her back on health care as a right for all Americans not just the ones that can pay for it.

[Beacool]

53. Because she has been a Democrat for decades.

Unlike Sen. Sanders......

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

61. "If a voter has a choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican

he’ll vote for the Republican every time."

-Quote attributed to President Truman.


Decades of being a conservative Democrat doesn't mean squat to me.


Her positions suck.

[Beacool]

31. Because he's just as self-serving as any other politician.

Bashed the Democrats for years and then joins them when he decides to run for president. He knew that as an Independent his chances of winning would be zero. I still think that his chances are slim, but he has a better chance as a member of a major political party than running on a Third party ticket.

[senz]

37. He NEVER bashed Democrats, Beacool.

Not nice to say things that aren't true.

[wilt the stilt]

43. He's bashed it for years

and calls it morally bankrupt. If you are not part of the party you don't get to use it only when it benefits you.

[senz]

50. Bull droppings. He has always worked and caucused with Dems. Pleasantly.

He NEVER puts them down. I think you're just trying to bait people by throwing out falsehoods that have already been disproved.

[ucrdem]

55. "Sanders: Obama sounds like Bush"

Bernie Sanders: Obama sounds like Bush and Clinton on trade

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-obama-sounds-like-bush-and-clinton-117717922196.html

[senz]

67. On the subject of the TPP. Well, of course.

Politicians of the same stripe are allowed to disagree with one another on specific issues. The TPP is a Republican wet dream. It officially places corporations over democratically elected governments and strips working people of their rights. Those of us who support Obama believe the upper echelons of the corporate hierarchy found a way to twist his arm to get him to support it. I've wondered if they may have threatened him. The TPP is Republicanism boiled down to its essence. You should know that.

This is quite different from "bashing the Democrats" and "bashing the Democratic Party." Bernie never bashed the entire party. He wouldn't do that. His best colleagues are Democrats. And he is a very nice person.

You should be able to figure all of this out.

[seaglass]

91. Some Sanders supporters have no clue about Sanders history against Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181

Obviously he is running in the Democratic Primary because he needs votes that he wouldn't have gotten running independent. So it was opportunistic. Don't know why people are running away from that. I really don't care that he is running in the Democratic primary, the Democrats have gone along with it so it really shouldn't be an issue.

Just wondering if/when he goes back to the Senate if he will be listed as Bernie Sanders (D-VT) or back to Bernie Sanders (I-VT).

[wilt the stilt]

39. you nailed it

most of these Bernie fans don't realize he s pretty much the same as any other politician.

[hrmjustin]

33. I am not a Sanders fan but he is committed to running in the Democratic party this year.

He made clear there will not be a third party run.

[wilt the stilt]

36. only because it gives him a chance to win

pretty self serving.

[hrmjustin]

38. Well all politicians are self serving to some extent.

[wilt the stilt]

40. You don't just join the party

when you benefit from all the work everyone has done

[hrmjustin]

42. That is a good point.

And the way they went after the DNC pissed me off.

[BlueMTexpat]

76. That is what has really struck me.

If you choose to run under a political party's banner and take advantage of its resources, then you do not constantly bash that same party and its top representatives (DWS was appointed by Prez O; I'm not a fan, but bashing her is implicitly bashing him as well in the circumstances) and still expect to receive all the benefits that the party structure provides.

Not without disgruntlement among those in the party structure ... and certainly not without disgruntlement among those who have been loyal Dems all their lives.

I think it's fine for Bernie to run as a Dem. His ideas are mainstream and popular Dem ideas. But, by its consistent attacks against the party hierarchy, I believe that his campaign is running him as an Independent without the label so that he can get the best of both worlds.

JMO.

[stone space]

41. Do you want him to? (nt)

[JonLeibowitz]

48. I suspect they'd rather that than him winning the nomination! Oh well, too late now. n/t

[merrily]

46. You mean, like Nader?

[enid602]

47. run as indepedent?

He is.

[SheilaT]

52. You seem to be stunningly unaware of

both why he isn't running as an independent (because it would insure a Republican win in November) and the fact that he always caucused with the Democrats while he's been in Congress.

He chose not to affiliate himself with the Democratic Party because until he decided to run for President, he knew he could accomplish much more outside of it. And yet (I might be repeating myself here) he always caucused with the Democrats.

He is far truer to the core ideals of the Democratic Party than Hillary is. He actually speaks up for the average person and maintains his same positions for years, decades even. Unlike . . . . well if you think Hillary is a paragon of consistency then you have not been paying attention.

[7wo7rees]

60. Well put, beautifully delivered.. With your post it should be

said and done. Thank you, SheilsT !!!!!

[SheilaT]

62. You are quite welcome.

I get tired of such obvious nonsense as the OP here, and while I don't always express myself without pissing off lots of people, I actually try to state my case as best I can. Once in a while I get it right.

[7wo7rees]

63. You did well!! Kudos!

[dgibby]

68. Excellent post.

The only thing you left out is the definition of the word "caucus".

[bottomofthehill]

54. He does not want to be the next Ralph Nader

Helping the Republicans snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

[7wo7rees]

56. 55 replies and not one rec. That speaks volumes.

[Ed Suspicious]

58. You're still asking this stupid question? How many times does it need to be answered by Bernie, by

us, by the little voice in the back of your head that knows better?

[Live and Learn]

64. Why can't Hillary supporters come up with new questions for us to respond to?

This one has been answered a gazillion times already.

[Trajan]

65. Because Democrats LOVE Bernie ...

When will the whining end ?

[Maedhros]

69. Don't feed him, people.

/ignore him.

[Bernblu]

70. Bernie's policies are New Deal Democratic

He is like FDR in the 21st century. If he ran as an independent he would the split the vote and elect a Republican.

[murielm99]

73. Because he wants their money and resources.

He is not as pure as he claims.

[juxtaposed]

74. maybe the same reason HRC isn't running as a repug.

[left-of-center2012]

75. Bernie running as an independent ...

insures a GOP win in November.

[quickesst]

78. Easy...

... He didn't need the Democratic Party.... until he did.

[99Forever]

79. Is that what you and Hillary want?

A guaranteed Democratic loss is okay with you? Is it that important that you make sure there can be NO progress for We the People or the Planet Earth just so Hillary can stroke her power-craving ego?

Seems pretty fucking selfish to me.

The desperation to save The Hillary Express as the wheels come off, is getting more shrill and ridiculous by the minute.

[JI7]

80. he has always caucused with democrats and supported dems for president

[saltpoint]

81. In bars and cafes all over the place

there must have been people talking about Dylan's going electric.

Did Woody Guthrie go electric? Can people who don't wander early and late from the New York City to the Gold Gate still like Woody Guthrie's music? If Dolly Parton was born in poverty but has long since become one of the most successful women in the world, can she record a Woody Guthrie song? Can she sing it persuasively?

The paperwork has to be filled out and filed. The fees have to be paid to appear on ballots. The Sanders campaign has done all that stuff and will appear on primary ballots. No rules were broken. Political parties have always meant involvement by factions within them who differ by design or degree from each other.

Nothin' new. Nothin' bad.

You can hear Dolly Parton singing Woody Guthrie's "Plane Wreck at La Gatos" on her Nine to Five album. And I think you're going to like it. She does a hell of a good job.

[cosmicone]

87. Because he is a politician

and politicians manipulate.

It is sort of like a guy taking a hot, young woman as a date to an important party for popularity rather than his true love who doesn't look so good in a short black dress.

Once the party is over, the guy goes back to his real love, leaving said hot, young woman to cry on her own.

I have always maintained that the democratic party is being used by a politician who never cared for it before.

[TransitJohn]

88. Because he wants to be President.

eom

[treestar]

89. He at least does not want a Republican to win

He has that much political awareness. Granted that means he is not purely idealistic, but he knows that. I don't think he makes claims for himself that some of his supporters make about him.

[Hiraeth]

90. There are 2 definitions of Independent. It is not always a party affiliate. It can also mean

unaffiliated. Open primary states allow for this. One can choose at each election whether one wants to vote in the D or R or whatever party for the primary.

1. Independent American Party - Official Site
www.independentamericanparty.org

"There are people today all over the world who in their own courageous and sometimes quiet ways are working for freedom. The only questions, before the final victory ...

Platform
Platform of the National Independent American Party (Adopted by …

Mission
To promote: respect for life, liberty and property; strong traditional …

The Principles of Liberty
We declare that these 15 principles must not be compromised by …

History of The IAP
National Party - Utah Roots Please also visit About the IAP Did you …

About The IAP
The Independent American Party’s objective is to express and …

Organizational Chart
"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic ...

2.Independent politician - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_(politician)

An independent or nonpartisan politician is an individual politician not affiliated to any political party. There are numerous reasons why someone may stand for ...

[Le Taz Hot]

92. He explained that at the very beginning of his campaign

and he's explained it hundreds of times since - he didn't want to split the Democratic Party vote. By the way, he's still and Independent in VERY sense of the word. I like a candidate that isn't beholden to Big Money.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

93. Because he wants to reform politics and the government from the inside.

It's also known as "practical politics".

[MoonRiver]

94. He's a poll, through and through, who wants to win. eom

[ljm2002]

95. Oh for crying out loud...

...he was quite open about his reason for running as a Democrat, namely, so that his candidacy would not be a "spoiler" campaign which would only siphon votes from the Democrats and ensure a Republican victory.

The DNC allowed him to run as a Democrat. Now they may be regretting that decision, since he is doing much, much better than anyone expected at this point. It seems to have been somewhat of a surprise to Bernie too.

So if you have an issue with Bernie running as a Democrat, take it up with the DNC. Otherwise, like the rest of us, contribute your energy, time and/or money to the candidate of your choice and may the best one win.