$250,000 a Year Is Not Middle Class

[Uncle Joe]

Mrs. Clinton is using a definition of middle class that has long been popular among Democratic policy makers, from her husband to Barack Obama when he was a candidate: any household that makes $250,000 or less a year. Yet this definition is completely out of touch with reality. It also boxes her in.

The most recent Census Bureau data showed that median household income — what people in the exact middle of the American spectrum earn — is $53,657.

Those families who make $250,000 a year, on the other hand, belong to an elite group: Americans who earn enough to be in the highest 5 percent of the income distribution. That top stratum captures anyone who makes $206,568 or more — not everyone in the so-called middle class that Mrs. Clinton says she is dedicated to protecting, but too large a chunk of it.

(snip)

This doesn’t matter just because the math is so off. In an era of deepening income inequality, those people in the top 5 percent who are being classified as middle class are pulling further away from the rest of us. Americans at the bottom or in the middle have experienced five years of falling or stagnating income; those in the top 5 percent have generally seen their incomes increase. Between 1967 and 2014, median household income went up by $9,400 while those 5 percenters are now making $88,800 more, all adjusted for inflation.

A policy response should give those who are sliding backward a hand up, most likely funded by the people who are doing so well. But under Mrs. Clinton’s pledge, some of the well off won’t be called on to help out, and are in fact lumped in for receiving a boost. (I should note that my spouse works on the technology team for the Clinton campaign, but is not involved in policy.)

Mrs. Clinton’s pledge also blocks her from backing policies that would almost certainly benefit middle-class Americans, even if it raised their taxes slightly.

(snip)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/opinion/campaign-stops/250000-a-year-is-not-middle-class.html?WT.mc_id=2016-KWP-AUD_DEV&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVREMARK&kwp_0=84819&kwp_4=448545&kwp_1=252935

[Thinkingabout]

1. Hummm, Sanders has changed his to match what Hillary had said.

Guess he is wrong also.

[Uncle Joe]

2. No, Bernie hasn't matched Hillary, he is much more in tune with the real middle class.

Senator Bernie Sanders also wants to help the middle class, but he wants to do it in a way that could mean raising its taxes, even if he promises that most of an increased burden will fall on the wealthy. This has made him a target of the Clinton camp, which is telling voters that Mrs. Clinton is the only candidate pledging to shield the middle class.

(snip)

Even Mr. Sanders, who often talks about income inequality, isn’t entirely immune from the allure of the $250,000 threshold.He’s ruled out middle-class tax increases except to fund paid family leave, promising to somehow get the needed revenue for his platform from banks and the very rich. And in other areas — top tax rates, Social Security payroll taxes — he adopts the $250,000 cap for no clear reason related to the policies themselves. That speaks to the spell this arbitrary limit has cast over the Democratic Party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/opinion/campaign-stops/250000-a-year-is-not-middle-class.html?WT.mc_id=2016-KWP-AUD_DEV&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVREMARK&kwp_0=84819&kwp_4=448545&kwp_1=252935

Bernie is also proposing eliminating the top limit of income in regards to Social Security contributions while expanding the program both in longevity and quality.

[Thinkingabout]

3. Exactly as Hillary has proposed before Sanders came to the $250,000 figure

Which happens to be right. Glad he got there.

[Uncle Joe]

4. What has Hillary said about funding paid family leave and eliminating the cap on Social Security?

[Thinkingabout]

6. She proposed to leave the cap until $250,000 and then raise taxes on those who earn

$250,000 but skip between the max cap to the $250,000 and over would not have a cap, it is the same as Sanders is saying now.

[Uncle Joe]

7. What about paid family leave? Has Hillary ever come out with a funding plan for that?

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders both announced plans this week to give all U.S. workers the right to 12 weeks of paid family leave — time employees could take off to care for a newborn baby, an elderly parent, or a sick spouse. Both of the leading Democratic candidates for president lament that the U.S. is the only developed nation in the world to offer no paid family leave, but they split on how such a program should be funded.
On Friday, Sanders proposed funding three months of paid leave through a small payroll tax on workers, which the campaign estimates would charge a typical worker $1.61 a week. He and a group of 18 Senate Democrats have introduced a bill to do this, dubbed the FAMILY Act.
Clinton, however, is not on board with this scheme. Slamming Sanders for endorsing an additional tax on workers, she has vowed to fund her paid family leave plan though “a combination of tax reforms impacting the most fortunate.” Exactly what kind of tax and on whom is not specified. Employees must also have served a company for a certain number of hours to qualify for her plan, though that threshold is similarly not defined. She also did not specify whether small business employees — at companies with 50 or fewer workers — would qualify.
These proposals for about three months of paid family leave would be a massive jump over the zero days now available to U.S. workers, who are entitled under current law to 12 weeks of leave without pay. Yet both Sanders and Clinton’s plans would still leave the U.S. behind most of the world, giving workers less time off than they would get in Bangladesh, the Democratic Republic of Congo, or Vietnam.

(snip)

On Friday, Sanders’ criticized Clinton for refusing to back his Senate bill, saying his payroll tax plan is similar to existing social programs.
“Medicare is strong because we’re all involved in it. Social Security is strong because we’re all involved in it,” he said. “This isn’t a tax that could be repealed in a few years.”

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/01/08/3737305/2016-paid-family-leave/

[Uncle Joe]

5. Well I found something but it doesn't look to me as if Hillary is leading.

At two appearances in Iowa on Sunday, Sanders called on "every candidate running for president" to give their views on the Family and Medical Insurance Leave Act, sponsored by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand. At a college in Indianola, Sanders noted that the New York Democrat succeeded Clinton in the Senate, telling reporters after his speech that his rival needs to explain where she stands on the issue.

Sanders wants Clinton to endorse a tax hike, a matter of interest to him on policy and political grounds.

Related: Paid leave is gaining steam

Gillibrand's bill would increase the payroll taxes for workers and companies by 0.2%, or about $1.38 a week for the median wage earner. Sanders is comfortable with that increase and has acknowledged that some of his proposals will require tax increases for middle income earners.

(snip)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-paid-leave/

[wilt the stilt]

8. 250,000 is middle class in metro NY,Chicago and some other metro areas

I have been seeing this resentment from many people on this site. I know quite a few people who make that kind of money. Many are Sales people and they work their asses off to do it. Why the resentment? We work hard and we risk our jobs every year. If we don't make our number we don't have a job. How many of you want to take that risk.

[Recursion]

9. It's four times the median household income in Manhattan

About three standard deviations out in the richest place in the country.

[wilt the stilt]

11. Why don't you take that risk

you can make that money also. These people risk it every day. I smell jealousy.

[Recursion]

15. I did for a hot minute in the .com era. Hated it

I much preferred to make 50K and have a life, thanks.

[JRLeft]

10. It is in the SF Bay Area too.

[wilt the stilt]

12. Absolutely, my old company was HQ'ed in SF

I know it well.

[JRLeft]

17. Especially in the Silicon Valley, Dublin, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek, San Ramon, Lafayette, Orinda,

Moraga, San Mateo county, etc.

[Uncle Joe]

13. $250,000 is in the top 5% of income brackets, the national median is aproximately 53,000.

5% of the nation's income earners vs 95%?

What about all those people living in metro NY, Chicago and some other metro areas that are making far less than 250,000?

It's not a matter of "resentment" just an acknowledgement of reality for the vast majority of the American People.

You speak of sales people and I certainly understand living on commission but by lifting up the masses and increasing their spending power, it seems to me that far more customers will in turn be supplied to people making their living by selling products vs protecting the top 5% from paying a little more in order to strengthen the nation as a whole, including those metro areas that you speak of.

[wilt the stilt]

18. We don't sell to people

We sell to companies. Enterprise software is where it is at

[Uncle Joe]

20. Everybody sells to people.

Who buys Enterprise software?

[wilt the stilt]

22. The top people in companies

or the top people on partnerships. We are talking to pretty powerful people.

[Uncle Joe]

24. What kind of companies and what kind of partnerships? n/t

[wilt the stilt]

26. General Electric and companies like that

top firms partnerships. won't elaborate more.

[Uncle Joe]

28. Well then, just taking General Electric as your customer.

General Electric (GE) is an American multinational conglomerate corporation incorporated in New York,[4] and headquartered in Fairfield, Connecticut.[2] As of 2015, the company operates through the following segments: Appliances, Power and Water, Oil and Gas, Energy Management, Aviation, Healthcare, Transportation and Capital which cater to the needs of Home Appliances, Financial services, Medical device, Life Sciences, Pharmaceutical, Automotive, Software Development and Engineering industries.

In 2011, GE ranked among the Fortune 500 as the 6th-largest firm in the U.S. by gross revenue,[5] and the 14th most profitable.[6] As of 2012 the company was listed the fourth-largest in the world among the Forbes Global 2000, further metrics being taken into account.[7] The Nobel Prize has twice been awarded to employees of General Electric: Irving Langmuir in 1932 and Ivar Giaever in 1973.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric

Ultimately it takes people to buy their products no matter far down the proverbial food chain, you can only hollow out that base so far before it collapses.

[wilt the stilt]

29. What is your point

of course you sell to people. i smell jealousy.

[Uncle Joe]

31. My point is, the vast majority of the people are the bedrock foundation of virtually all economic

endeavor and as such that base should be highly maintained by their representative government and if companies knew what was good for them, they would as well.

Reagan's trickle down economics stood reality on its head, as the people have more to spend, businesses across the board prosper, with a few possible exceptions such as payday loan shark companies.

I don't know where you're sniffing but I have no jealousy of someone making a lot of money particularly through hard work and/or creative innovation.

My major qualms are with bought and paid for government empowering Rigor mortis monopolies and plutocrats with tax policies that only serve to undermine the general American Economy while ignoring the ever increasing environmental damages not to mention allowing our infrastructure to collapse all in abeyance to those in the Ivory Towers.

[wilt the stilt]

32. you started this post

crying that $250,000 is not middle class. I said it was in many metro areas. When i
I hear someone moaning about people making 250k then I always suspect jealousy. Then you go on this convoluted stream of thought that people buy from people. The discussion was about making 250k.
.

[Uncle Joe]

34. 250k might only be the middle class in a minuscule number of areas, my focus

is on the nation as whole.

250k is 5% of the population.

[My Good Babushka]

41. Executives love to buy new software

Usually the super-expensive, unwieldy kind that doesn't really meet the needs of the workforce, then they make the workforce build and invent endless workarounds, with no additional pay (because they blew all that money on software)... until the next time the executives feel like being "cutting edge" and buying new software. It must be a good gig.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

14. I take that risk everyday and I make a fraction

and I live in Denver - daughter in college - eat well

want to share you budget - plenty here will give you a hand - might try

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1128

[wilt the stilt]

16. What kind of sales are you in?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

19. Colorado - green gold

no easy street here

[wilt the stilt]

21. Are you selling weed?

no wonder, there is no money in that. It takes years to get to this point. Most of us started selling on the streets. I old cash registers basically door to door. I wore shoes too small for my feet. I learned sales through trial and error.

Basically, we sell software that changes the way a company operates. The sales cycle can be a year and if we lose the sale we probably lose our job.

How many of you want to take that risk.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

23. been there done that

software development and sales and support - medical in Houston

no easy street there also

still - 250,000 pays the bills - for more than bread and water

[wilt the stilt]

25. Then you know

no easy street and you earn every penny.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

27. and when I do I live better than most kings ever dreamed possible

but some find that time is more important

[politicaljunkie41910]

37. I agree with you. I saw an interview with Hillary where she addressed this very issue.

She stated that $250,000 was about the average income of two professionals living in an urban area. That couple usually has student loans they are paying off, plus a mortgage, and are raising a family with possible childcare expenses, while they are trying to save for their own retirement, or for their children's college education which is why she wouldn't raise their taxes because the couple she described is not rich.

[Green Forest]

42. That is absolutely false. Your opinion bears no resemblance to the facts.

But then you knew that.

[PowerToThePeople]

30. It is enough to supply a standard of living

similar to the "Leave it to Beaver" day's middle class.

It is just that, in 2016, the vast majority of the citizenry of this nation are in near or abject poverty.

"Middle class" is defined by the individual to suit whatever agenda they have. In this case, Hillary's base are the top earners, so she defines it as 250k.

[wilt the stilt]

33. I do not believe it is her base

but I do think some people who support her do make that kind of money. I also think Hilary has a much larger percentage of her support is African American which typically makes less money than the average wage earner. Bernie's supporters are by and large the white professional crowd. I'm willing to bet his median income is higher than hers.

[PowerToThePeople]

35. I have seen your posts today

Your opinions hold no weight on me.

[wilt the stilt]

36. great comeback takes a lot to respond like that

I can guarantee I had a significantly tougher life than you. I'm 64 and grew up in the back of a laundry. we lived in 500 sq. ft. with 5 people. My father couldn't swim in the public pools in St. Louis in the 1930's. I found out yesterday that my grandmother was arrested in Springfield, Il in 1910 for cavorting with chinese(I got the actual newspaper article yesterday). My grandmother was german.

And your pathetic putdown is going to bother me.

[PowerToThePeople]

38. Cool story bro.

[wilt the stilt]

39. power to the people

what a joke. I'm willing to bet you grew up in a very comfortable middle class family. I shared a twin bed with my brother until he was 10 and I was 9.

[PowerToThePeople]

40. Haha

I just put Chamberlain on ignore, now there are only two posts in this thread, OP and my reply #30.