2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDid Bernie send out a fundraising letter making false claims of a "reported" attack against him?
Or is there actually evidence of such an attack?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)See: https://twitter.com/blakehounshell/status/688554894710718464
To answer your question: No.
Unrec.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Can you post it?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)And Politico stands by the story, as the tweet shows. Is your question whether it is ethical to fundraise off of reporting?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And other than their rather dubious claims there's no evidence of anything.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Fancy that.
cali
(114,904 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Brock
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Spare us.
merrily
(45,251 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....politico was wrong but is too stubborn to admit.
The "demand" never happened and there is no evidence that it was even planned. It's as simple as that.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)It was great fun. What appears to have happened is that the Hillary side decided to question Bernie's age and health. Then it became a much bigger deal that Clinton has had two brain aneurisms, has a family history of stroke and is on a lifelong treatment of a blood thinning medication that can cause brain bleed and death. So it would seem that feeling like they may have opened the wrong can of worms they acted like they knew nothing about it and supposedly rebuked the "responsible" party stating something like after all this is a race for the presidency not about medical records.
Extremely funny. However for myself and I'm sure many others, the questions about Hillary's fitness to run let alone win the presidency is now in deep question.
As for Bernie he said only that there was a supposed question on his health and encouraged people to ask Hillary to keep to the issues.
1) I'm sure that many are going to claim that Hillary knew nothing of the plan to raise question to Bernie's age. I say bullshit on that.
2) Bernie did not attack her own health as he should have. The planned attack against Bernie was real or someone wouldn't have needed to be told to back off.
3) her health issues may be a game changer.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Michael Briggs and Tad Devine. There is no other evidence that Brock was planning an attack on his age. And that's the only point I'm making.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Nice try though. And it still leaves Hillary's health issues out there. She sounds very high risk to me.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)For starting the rumor? I don't see that as much different.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)whether or not it was true. And seriously, there's not a chance in hell that Brock or anyone in the Clinton campaign would consider such an idiotic attack.
You keep telling yourself that but I don't think anyone will believe that.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)If so she wasn't attacking Bernie on single payer, but on his readiness to abolish ACA and other hard-fought programs.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)And I could care f'all for ACA if it is replaced by single payer or medicare for all.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)Tanuki
(14,914 posts)She did have a blood clot, not IN the brain, but in the vein BETWEEN the brain and the skull, and this was successfully resolved by treatment with a blood thinner. The clot resulted when she fell and struck her head while dehydrated from a stomach virus. I hope this clears things up for you. I know many were confused by Karl Rove's unfounded allegations of "brain damage." I am always sorry to see Democrats become unwitting carriers of right wing propaganda and smears.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/31/politics/hillary-clinton-hospitalized/index.html
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Thanks!
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)From her doctor. Of course I didn't contact her doctor to see if that was the correct letter. I followed a link here on du posted by one of her supporters trying to prove that she released a medical report. If I find it again I will post it.
Tanuki
(14,914 posts)or copied it from someone else who made it up. Stop lying about this. She did NOT have a brain aneurysm!
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Like I said I followed a link from a Hillary supporter right here on du, trying to prove that Hillary released her records. I assumed the site was ok since one of your own Hillary supporters posted it.
If I can find it, I will post it. Prior to reading it I called her condition blood clots, which by the way also can lead to stroke. And clots are treated with coumadin. Blood thinner.
But keep your name calling to yourself please.
Tanuki
(14,914 posts)Response to Tanuki (Reply #131)
LiberalArkie This message was self-deleted by its author.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)I don't know if this is the same one I read it from but this link was posted also by a Hillary supporter. So, an apology will be expected. You called me a liar.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/hillary-clinton-medical-records
Tanuki
(14,914 posts)in multiple threads, including this one, that HRC had suffered two brain aneurysms. After I corrected your error, you doubled down and claimed that you read it in a letter from her doctor. As I said above, you did not read anything about one, much less two aneurysms in any such letter. You either made it up or copied it from someone else who did. Once you had been provided with accurate information both by me and Liberal Arkie, the honest thing to have done would have been to delete the false information from your posts, but you have not done that. There is nothing about aneurysms in the link you just posted, so I am not sure what your point was in acting like you are owed some sort of apology.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)a trait I have noticed among several Hillary supporters. Yes I got it wrong on aneurysms but I am sure I saw that somewhere or would not have changed it from blood clot.
I guess I will be ok that you are going to be one of those Hillary supporters that squawk liar liar, show me show me, but refuse to look anything up to see the truth. ok then. I thought so anyway.
I gave you the link to the letter. aneurysms and clots really have similar results making her, in my opinion, a high risk.
I had used the term blood clot prior to one of the Hillary supporters linking to the letter.
blood clot, aneurysm, still stroke stroke. HIGH RISK!!
Tanuki
(14,914 posts)in challenging your false assertion that she had experienced "two brain aneurysms." I had already looked up the letter and was well aware of what it did and did not say. Perhaps you were confused by some of the big words the doctor used in her letter. If so, bless your little heart. Perhaps this will teach you to look things up so you don't embarrass yourself. Then you won't be reduced to dismissing factual information as "squawk." It's lamentable that you don't seem to have a very high regard for truthfulness and accuracy in your posts. Speaking of which, now that your odd gambit of asking for an apology for being correct has failed, are you going to delete the false information you posted in multiple threads about Clinton's medical history? I can only imagine the outcry that would ensue if a Clinton supporter were to pull a similar stunt when Sanders" medical history is released.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)I believe your accusation of list was about whether I saw the letter. Now you say you saw the letter. So again, an apology is owed but I won't be expecting it. I guess I could delete my posts when I get that apology.
Good day to you.
And she is still at high risk with her history, her meds, and her genetics.
Tanuki
(14,914 posts)Anyone can look at this subthread and reach their own conclusion. Again, I can only imagine the reaction around here if someone makes up crap about Sanders' medical history, claims it was in his doctor's letter after getting called out on it, and then tries to weasel out of it by throwing shade on the person who set the record straight and feigning wounded umbrage.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Lol. Look we both know you were out of line. You are not big enough to admit it so we will just say goodbye. I know you can't quit without getting in the last word, so go ahead. Enjoy it. And once again, this conversation is over.
Tanuki
(14,914 posts)maybe this will teach you not to start something you can't finish.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)now we know.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Blood clots and the genetics of stroke and heart disease coupled with long term or life long coumadin treatment is a very very serious concern that more should be aware of.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and probably not be self aware enough to realize you helped bring it on.
Any conversation about the candidates "vitality" will leave you pretty upset is my guess. Have at it if you must.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Hillary's team opened that can of worms already and that's how all of her medical problems came out. Then they quickly shut it down realizing they were on the losing end. I' d put up Sanders health to Hillary's any day.
You should probably be more up to date on what's going on before you try to intimidate people.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)is enough for you to peddle as having happened? Seriously, go away.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)No one prodded you to reply to me. You guys are getting desperate or is it deja vu?
And yes, I'm absolutely sure that Hillary knew nothing of that planned attack because that's how she rolls right? In the dark Andy aware? Mhm.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #130)
LiberalArkie This message was self-deleted by its author.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Still very serious and hers according to the link below was potentially life threatening. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hillary-clinton-blood-clot-life-threatening-medical-experts/story?id=18101213
Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #136)
LiberalArkie This message was self-deleted by its author.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Inside Politics. Came out of her mouth. Just heard it.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Anything else?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)was "bad."
In fact, I kind of thought that your base defending your campaign was what naturally happens.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Can you point to one?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)If you have something to say get on with it.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Drizzle Drazzle Druzzle Drome ... Time for this one to go away ...
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)So, I am guessing that the story is true.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)So far we have Michael Briggs and Tad Devine pointing to their red badges of courage and that's about it in the evidence department.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Slap Brock down unless he was up to something?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)Segami
(14,923 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)It wasn't Brock.
Response to ucrdem (Original post)
bigtree This message was self-deleted by its author.
Segami
(14,923 posts)
@johnpodesta
.@davidbrockdc:
Chill out. We're fighting on who would make a better President, not on who has a better Physical Fitness Test.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)So it looks like Podesta got rolled.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I of course marvel at the mental process that led you to such a thoughtful conclusion.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)What conclusion would you like me come to?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Brock was going to attack Bernie over his medical records. Luckily John Podesta with the Hillary campaign told Brock to chill.
So yes something nefarious was planned and Podesta stopped it.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Of course, this poster is not actually interested in what really happened, as all the comments here show.
draa
(975 posts)What I find funny is Politico and John Podesta and both lying while the GOP scum turned political opportunist David Brock is the one telling the truth. David Brock, a man who John Podesta wouldn't flush from his toilet for fear it wreck the house. Yes, that David Brock.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)draa
(975 posts)I also doubt he's publish a tweet that wasn't even based in fact. That's just not John.
His tweet said all I need to hear. He's an honest man and if he says that something was about to happen then I believe him. Especially over a shitstain like Brock.
edit: lol, I reread my previous post and I could have been clearer with what I was trying to say. Hopefully you get a better understanding with this comment.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Absolutely, the whole episode is darn amusing. I'm just surprised certain surrogates have chosen to keep this issue alive by trying to smear Sanders with "opportunism". If I were them I'd let the issue be forgotten as it is certainly not advantageous to Team Weathervane.
But I won't stop them from shooting themselves in the face.
draa
(975 posts)Sanders is dictating nearly every aspect of the discussion. Every time she says something about Bernie the media eviscerates her and he raises record cash. He's like the Teflon Don. Nothing sticks and the attacks usually backfire.
She also keeps trying to attack a position of strength from a position of weakness. That never works.
Whether in war or in politics (both are quite similar in tactics) you don't attack your enemy's strength. Not unless it's your last resort anyway. Now, it might be possible that she's desperate and she sees no other choice but as Sun Zhu said, if the enemy gets to your gate you've lost the battle. Right now Bernie is at the gate and she's on the attack. Too bad for her the attacks will likely fail because she ignored him for too long.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)THANK YOU!
draa
(975 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)That clip is why I went to see a stupid chick flick instead of the sports drama I was expecting.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)They are playing it out on Twitter.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Mike__M
(1,052 posts)if you weren't able to convince yourself of the plausibility of your denial of the either the twisting or the wind.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I'd hate to think the poster actually believes these inanities.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)A major editor at Politico called Brock out as a liar on Twitter. Podesta chided Brock on twitter.
Not enough evidence?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Truprogressive85
(900 posts)John Podesta works for HRC why would he tell Brock is there were not threats.
Feb 1 could not come fast enough
Segami
(14,923 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Which strongly suggests that the rumors are coming from the Sanders campaign. Which, to borrow a phrase from Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver, would be "desperate and vile."
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I hope you don't actually believe what you're saying!
That would truly give me the sadz.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)But sometimes reality rhymes with witch.
Segami
(14,923 posts)she uses them as disposable attack dogs.
Then her campaign (Podesta) deflects the outrage by playing the adult in the room and publicly chastises Brock....
Old school good cop, bad cop tactics.......massive fail!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Segami
(14,923 posts)to publicly slap Brock on the wrist for something that never was in the works?....
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I guess it matches their candidate's approach.
Not a one of the "arguments" I have seen in HRH's defense today has come close to rational.
It is all very amusing however.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Thanks.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)nxylas
(6,440 posts)Of course there is no evidence that could possibly convince you.
snoringvoter
(178 posts)Go on, keep on trying. It's so cute when you do.
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)I think you look foolish.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And the only named sources claiming there was such an attack in the original Politico article are Michael Briggs and Tad Devine from the Sanders campaign:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/clinton-surrogate-to-demand-sanders-release-medical-records-217880
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And no one will be the wiser. Or admit to it anyway.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)still_one
(92,061 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)The report was certainly out there. Maybe it was a trial balloon, maybe Brock overstepped his bounds. The Clinton camp certainly reacted like the info that they intended to go there came from their end. Geez- the mental gymnastics it takes to turn this into the Sanders camp doing something shady is fucking incredible.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Glad we cleared that up!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)It's been repeatedly pointed out to you that Politico was reporting what Brock had said the intention was. That's what the Sanders camp was reacting to.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)The reports were apparently based on sources in the Clinton campaign. No one's denying that. In fact, the reactions support that. Now, there are only a few options. The reports were true, and that was the plan. The reports were false, and either Politico or someone in the campaign lied (or it was a trial balloon of some sort)
In any event, seemingly reliable reports were out there that the Sanders campaign was reacting to. I would say reasonably, ymmv (in fact it clearly does) The very fact that the "hey, we're going there' was coming from the Clinton side *is* actually going there, even if that's the end of it. This didn't come whole cloth from the Sanders side.
I suspect this won't satisfy you, but those are the facts as they're known. It's also as much or more "evidence" than most news stories.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)This might seem harsh but if they're going to play games they're going to get caught.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Remember?
senz
(11,945 posts)Mike__M
(1,052 posts)I myself am still wondering about the evidence
that Sanders is sexist
or that Sanders is racist
or that Sanders wants to eliminate health insurance for millions and millions
or that Sanders is not electable,
but since none of these accusations sticks, I don't obsess over it.
I also wonder if there's any evidence that there is any reason I should vote for the only one with a record of losing a primary race.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Pack it in.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Somebody is actually thinking, or pretending to be thinking, what is written in this OP.
riversedge
(70,084 posts)Alex Seitz-Wald Verified account
@aseitzwald
New: Sanders team says they raised $250K tonight off David Brock healthcare story. "Once again, thanks team Clinton," Michael Briggs says.
Jill @NooneOfan 17m17 minutes ago
Jill Retweeted Alex Seitz-Wald
They raised money off of a FAKE story! #Bernie campaign NOT honest to its voters!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Kind of hard to believe but you know what? When they flew that helicopter over Bill's speech at the Iowa J-J dinner I didn't believe it at first and figured it was just a rumor. Then it turned out they not only did it, but were proud of it. So nothing would surprise me at this point.
cali
(114,904 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)I know that usually means a hide around here, so thank you.
That fund raising letter was as phony as it gets. Trump up the phony outrage and ask for money. Transparent as hell. Weaver is not a credible character.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Not that pointing out the obvious will change much but hope springs eternal ...
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)is his campaign's strategy for $$$$$, so I have no hope in that changing. Bernie can't be vetted because-------poor Bernie! I'm so sick of the phoniness. Ugh.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)according to certain parameters?
ok, let hillary go first. she can give back all the money from the wall street investors, the big banks, and the pharm industry for starters.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Now, it true Party Line fashion, that history has been erased and it is "what attack you talking about?".
Fabulous. I'm sure in your inner narrative this is all somehow squared away.
Let's get onto serious business, we have a war with Iran to cook up. Amirite?
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)eom
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)of the unnamed sources that report relied upon. Bernie's campaign relied upon that report. If the report turns out to be bogus, then his campaign, like Clinton's campaign, erred in believing that it was true.
George II
(67,782 posts)napi21
(45,806 posts)got any like THAT! Plus, that just isn't Bernie's style.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)CHARLESTON, South Carolina The Hillary Clinton campaign Saturday night publicly rebuked one of its top outside allies after reports that he planned to make an issue of rival Bernie Sanders health reports he now denies. Meanwhile, the Sanders campaign said they would release a letter testifying to his health in coming weeks.
Chill out, Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta tweeted at David Brock, who runs several pro-Clinton groups. Were fighting on who would make a better President, not on who has a better Physical Fitness Test. Politico first reported earlier Saturday that Brock was planning to go on TV to call for the 74-year-old Sanders to release his medical records.
I tend to think that the chairperson of the Clinton campaign had a good idea of what ally Brock was getting himself up to. And I especially think that when the chairperson of the Clinton campaign actually goes very public and says "Chill out". Smart move by Podesta, preempting another sleazy move against Sanders by Brock that the media would gleefully pounce on.
Brock seems oblivious to the fallout of his operations, he still seems determined to be acting as an operative. The last thing the Clinton campaign wants is to remind people that they have ties to the David Brock of old.
The sleaze he unleashed on Anita Hill is still a dark memory for many Clinton supporters who also supported/support Anita Hill. Brock apologized for that, but getting up to more sleaze could make people think that apology wasn't so sincere, and then wonder why the heck they're partnered up with him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Anita_Hill
http://www.amazon.com/Real-Anita-Hill-David-Brock/dp/0029046564
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Youre invited: Important organizing rally with campaign staff in Houston.
(removed IDing info)
The Iowa caucuses are days away, and the latest polls show that Bernie may be poised to win an historic upset victory.
If that happens, Texans have to be ready to turn momentum into victory on March 1. Winning in early states isnt enough to win this election. We have to follow through and build a much, much larger political movement to elect Bernie. We simply cannot afford to drop the ball in the Lone Star State.
March 1 is just over six weeks away, which means its crunch time. Building a voter contact operation at the scale necessary to win takes enormous investments of time and effort in the weeks before election day.
To take our campaign in Texas to the next level, were holding a series of big organizing rallies with campaign staff across the state including one in Houston where well lay out our ambitious plan to win in Texas. To win, we need you. Can I count on you to join us?
Organizing Rally with Texas Bernie Staff - Houston:
Sunday, January 24ᵗʰ in Houston
RSVP to Attend
Politics isnt a spectator sport least of all when youre a scrappy grassroots movement taking on the political and economic establishment.
This is serious: If you arent involved in the campaign yet, now is the time to join us. If youre already organizing, we need you to dig in and work even harder.
Sign up for the organizing rally in Houston and help make history by winning Texas for Bernie on March 1.
In solidarity,
Sarah Slamen
Texas Field Director
Bernie 2016