202 The Daily 202: Bernie Sanders won the Democratic debate, say pundits and social media

[shawn703]

Front-runner Hillary Clinton often sounded like an underdog, as she attacked the Vermont senator for flip-flopping on guns, proposing an unrealistic health care plan and admitting that he would raise taxes on the middle class. The former Secretary of State closely linked herself with Barack Obama, praising the president repeatedly as she appealed to African American voters who could save her campaign if she loses Iowa and New Hampshire. She had a very strong closing argument and dominated when talk turned to foreign policy.

But the overnight verdict from most in the pundit class is that Sanders prevailed, even if narrowly. Here’s what they are saying:

The Fix’s Chris Cillizza names Sanders the winner and Clinton the loser: “More than anything he said, it was the passion and disruption that Sanders oozed from every pore over the two hours that should push Democrats on the fence about the race into his camp. Sanders effectively positioned himself as the anti-status-quo candidate, a very good position to have in this electoral environment.”

Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis tweeted that 27 of 30 undecided voters in a South Carolina focus group he convened picked Sanders as the winner.


More...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/01/18/the-daily-202-bernie-sanders-won-the-democratic-debate-say-pundits-and-social-media/



Now Sanders even won over the typically pro-Clinton punditry, and then most of the focus groups in a state she's supposed to win. When people pay attention, he becomes the clear choice.

[Kalidurga]

1. This is shocking

I fully expected the pundits to ignore how good Bernie is and step over him to anoint Hillary.

[Kalidurga]

3. Yeah like all the people who don't like Hillary are rwnj's right?

[brooklynite]

4. I've never exposed a "conspiracy theory" of any sort...

...you'll have to take that up with the people that you think are.

[Kalidurga]

5. Yet you accuse me of that.

You are a bit of a hum heh he hum.

[brooklynite]

7. "I fully expected the pundits to ignore how good Bernie is"

Can't imagine why you'd assume that unless you buy into "the media is hiding Bernie's message"

[Kalidurga]

9. The media was hiding his message this is a documented fact.

They were not even giving Hillary much air time. The media does this to democrats and liberals on a daily basis. I have known this since my college days in the 80's.

[retrowire]

17. Exactly, it was a documented fact.

Keep calling us crazy, hillary supporters lmao. It's not like facts back up your claim that we're crazy.

http://www.mrc.org/media-reality-check/study-hillary-gets-most-press-bernie-and-biden-get-best-press

fact fact fact facts

http://variety.com/2015/biz/news/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-1201659715/

lololol try harder hillary supporters.

[Uncle Joe]

26. Kicking and recommending the OP and your post.

Thanks to both of you.

[CharlotteVale]

6. K&R.

[JRLeft]

8. There are pundits whom believe HRC won, in my opinion

nothing changes the dynamics of the race.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. Name one who is not named Mark Penn or Debbie Schultz.

[JRLeft]

32. You didn't watch CNN last night, did you?

Maybe you haven't followed, I support Bernie.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

38. I've been trying to avoid cable gnus.

So, after the debate, I went and worked on a large watercolor. I learned a lot more that way.

[CorporatistNation]

29. EXACTLY! Hillary IS Trending DOWN And Bernie IS TRENDING UP!

Quite simple... as Bernie overcomes the MSM BLACKOUT his message is being absorbed by more and more people. People being logical then realize just who the candidates are comparatively and like last night, Bernie WINS easily. K and R

[left-of-center2012]

10. The better Bernie does

The meaner HRC will get.
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

[zazen]

11. presumptuous rage doesn't need to emanate from gender--look at Trump

I think that quote refers to women who are romantically rejected, and probably has a lot to do with a history of women giving up what little rights they had to depend on a man because they couldn't own property or earn a living, then raising his children, and then being cast out for the crime of growing old in a patriarchal society.

[roguevalley]

13. or some of her supporters

[Ino]

31. ...except for a scorned man's fist (nt)

[Helen Borg]

12. Of course he won!!!

[Loudestlib]

14. .

It's less about who won or lost and more about was Hillary able to stop Bernie's momentum. She didn't....he did a great job. He proved that he can handle a tough debate and he's going into the primaries in a great position.

Last nights debate was the last chance for Hillary and she failed. It's going to be 2008 all over again.

[restorefreedom]

15. more about that s.c focus group

the guy was on this morning. he said it was a diverse group in terms of age and that 14 of the 30 were AA, so there goes the AA s.c. firewall. he said before the debate everyone thought hillary would win handily, but at the end 27 thought bernie won, and almost all of them thought he dominated the first half.

this is an excellent sign for bernie, and another obvious tell as to why dws wanted to hide the debates. when bernie's message gets out, people like it.

shame, dws

[Duval]

16. K&R

[Politicub]

18. To hear many on DU tell it

She is the underdog. According to Sanders' supporters, Bernie is leading.

You can't have both ways. She is either the underdog or not.

When I see Sanders, the first word that comes to mind is anger. The first word that comes to mind about Hillary is leadership.

I just don't see Sanders as a leader. He's more of a channel for other people's anger. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that anger alone will only take you so far.

Visionary leadership is what gets things done. Sanders doesn't strike me as a visionary or a leader. Hillary, on the other hand, will get things done.

[thomservo]

19. Funny...

When I see Clinton I see mostly pandering.

[Politicub]

22. Funny x2

When I see Sanders I see a confused man shaking his fist while yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

[shawn703]

36. Ageism

Nice

[pangaia]

24. That is so clear it is painful.

I had to turn it off at about 9:45 EST.

[Indepatriot]

23. To hear many on DU tell it

She is an honest champion of Progressive Values. And yet Iraq War Vote. $600,000 of Goddamn Sachs cash, Millions more from the other Wall Street Banksters, TPP, Marriage Equality, Tuzla lies. Racist dog whistles in 08'...

You can't have it both ways, She's either a Progressive or not.

When I see Clinton, the first word I think of is dishonesty. The first word that comes to mind about Sanders is honesty.

I just don't see Clinton as a leader. She's more a channel for Wall Street's wants and her own ambition. There is most certainly everything wrong with that. It's just that money and ambition will only get you so far.

Visionary leaders don't wait for polls to tell them it's time to "evolve" on crucial, basic issues, they take a bold stand, political expediency be damned, and fight for what's right. Hillary has proven she is a follower, not a leader. Sanders, on the other hand, has been on the right side, the Progressive side, of every major issue of the last 30 years.

[Politicub]

25. Except when he hasn't been on the side of progressive values

Immunity for gun manufacturers isn't progressive, no matter which way you try to spin it. He had to pay back the NRA for leaving him alone in his senatorial bid, though, so I guess he was being progressive for gun makers.

[Indepatriot]

28. Keep ignoring the facts. Sanders has a D- rating from the NRA

The bill (like ALL bills) had some crappy things in it, but a lot of very good things, and he voted with it to attain those good things. That said, if you think that it's going to be legally upheld to hold gun manufacturers legal when guns are used to murder you are delusional. No court would allow that, if they did, every automaker could be held liable for car accidents, every baseball bat maker for bludgeoning deaths. The list would be endless, and it's complete nonsense. It is a Red Herring of the first order. Sanders has been on the forefront of trying to re-instate the ban on assault weapons, banning armor-piercing ammo, expanded background checks, and a litany of pragmatic (I know you folks love that word) measures that can actually get implamented. If you recall, it was Clinton who courted the gun vote in 08', regaling us with heartfelt tale of how her Daddy taught her to shoot a 22 back in the day, sending out mailers that accused Obama of wanting to ban guns......good luck with Madame Shapeshifter and her "progressive" values.

[Matariki]

34. Great posts Indepatriot

thanks.

[ChiciB1]

33. OOOOOOHHHH STOP With The Gun STUFF!

He gets a D- or F rating from the NRA!!! How many times does this need to be posted?????

I CLEARLY understand what you're concerned about, but try looking at the complete picture and all the issues confronting this country! I long ago UNDERSTOOD that stopping the NRA is almost impossible! Even NRA members who pay their dues DISAGREE with much of how the NRA operates. Still they REMAIN members and MANY are Democrats! My husband has hunted for many, many years, not an NRA member, but he owns 2 rifles! I don't like any guns, I don't like hunting but he's gonna do it.

He doesn't hunt like he used to, much more into diving and FISH HUNTING. While I don't want any guns in my house, IT'S never gonna happen. There ARE Democrats (many) who understand Bernie on this issue! We know quite a few, they aren't all bat shit crazy Bundy types! Campeche???

He's a DIE HARD DEMOCRAT from way, way back!

[Plucketeer]

35. Phony argument

I think - as I always have - that guns are for military forces. In this day and age we don't need to go hunt for our meat. I realize many do do that still, but it's clearly NOT because there's no meat available for our dinner tables. And - to be honest about it - given the price of ammunition nowdays, a pound of lean hamburger is probably the better deal. Never mind that it's inspected and prepared and you don't have to mess with the entrails an such. But there's a long-used argument from the gun nuttery crowd that ought to be considered if we're gonna try and put the blame on gun makers.
That argument is that if we're going to go after gun makers, then the makers of everything else should be fair game when someone uses a product of theirs to cause death. Automobiles would be a great example, but I imagine toasters and light bulbs and buckets and many other things could be vulnerable too. But with Automobiles for instance - it happens too frequently that some deranged or enraged sort plows into a crowd with a car and kills and maims folks. Why shouldn't the automakers be liable for providing a product that has the potential to be used to kill folks? Of course, it's a obscenely stupid argument. But there's probably lawyers that would love to try. And even tho guns are manufactured with the intent of causing fatal injury to living things, they won't do that unless a human picks them up - points them at a living thing, and pulls the trigger (assuming the gun is loaded). Likewise, the act of swerving a car onto a crowded sidewalk instead of going down the street is an option selected by the driver - not GM or Mercedes-Benz or any other auto maker.

[Android3.14]

37. Word most associated with your candidate

For Clinton, it is the word "liar"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-liar-frequently-word-hillary-clinton/story?id=33361629

[thesquanderer]

30. re: "You can't have both ways. She is either the underdog or not. "

Remember that there is no single Hillary or Bernie supporter on the other sides of these conversations, it's groups of people, who don't all think identically. So of course, it's possible for some supporters of a candidate to think X while others think opposite-of-X, and that doesn't mean anyone is trying to have it both ways. Rather, there are disagreements among different people who support the same candidate.

Also, context matters... someone can be the underdog in some situations, but not others. For example, I'd say that, at the moment, Hillary is arguably the underdog in New Hampshire, and maybe Iowa where they are running about even but momentum is on Bernie's side (as Hillary has generally been leading there until recently). Beyond that, in the overall race for the nomination, I think even most Bernie supporters would still consider him to be the underdog. So yes, it's possible for the same person to think underdog or not, and still not be trying to have it both ways, simply by speaking within different contexts.

[MynameisBlarney]

21. I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice this...

But it sure seems that there's a LOT more K&R's for the Bernie threads than for the Hillary threads.

I know it probably doesn't mean much, but it just seems to be so lopsided.

[PatrynXX]

27. Bout time

They were probably beginning to lose viewers. Hillary still acts like the Internet doesn't exist. smh

If she doesn't have the youth vote or the Independent vote (who can become Democrats yah know. ) She won't win in November. Thats a fact. And she's lost the Independants by leaps and bounds. If you have Republicans saying they'd rather vote for Bernie than Ted or Donald thats saying something but if Hillary is in there thats moot. We have a chance to put real Liberals back in office this year not the Conservative Democrats. And if you can get them excited that threatens any Republican running for Congress as well. Hillary wants to attach herself to Status Quo fine but thats not really smart.