IMO: Rove is defining the Democratic Establishment for the GE and helping Clinton.

[Skwmom]

Last edited Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:25 PM - Edit history (2)

1. Clinton will say this proves they don't want to run against her (yeah right). That's what they want voters to think.

2. Rove knows Clinton will not bow out even if "stuff" explodes. And if that occurs, the Democratic Establishment will attempt to push forward another establishment candidate.

3. Rove probably thinks the Democratic Establishment candidate will prevail (either Clinton or more likely Biden). At that time, the Republicans will start to argue how the Democratic Establishment embraced Clinton knowing full well ..... and .... (I'll keep any further thoughts to myself because it would probably make heads explode.) The Republicans will also argue that the last thing the Democratic establishment wanted was Honest Bernie so .........

By defining the Democratic Establishment, if an establishment candidate prevails, they will be painted with the same brush.

[PatrickforO]

1. Given your logic, I'd think you would say that Rove's attacks are helping

Bernie.

Because they are. But Rove is a shit anyway - we should ALWAYS take anything he says, do our own research and make up our own minds.

[questionseverything]

2. my take is rove knows how rigged the system is and figures hc will prevail

so he might as well start on her now

[Skwmom]

6. Rove's attacks are helping the GOP and Clinton who loves to argue it's a vast right wing conspiracy.

[JudyM]

3. At their debate they were excoriating her over and over, clearly an agreed upon tactic. Bernie

wasn't mentioned, as far as I recall. Yet he was showing well in the the polls by then, clearly a serious contender.

So what's the rationale for hitting Clinton but not Bernie? If Rover was spending on ads against both of them... Or if the clown car candidates mentioned him... I'd not be puzzled. It's almost as if they are trying to oust him from the discussion.

[PatrickforO]

5. My feeling is that this strategy will backfire.

These people are still fighting the Cold War and have seriously misread the American public's mood. If they think that if Bernie is nominated they can merely tar him with the socialist brush and have 'good Americans' everywhere repudiate him, then they have made grave blunder.

[JudyM]

7. Right, but I can't imagine they're thinking that simplistically.

They're seeing the polls and the huge energy of his base. They understand the powerful attraction of populism among voters now. He's owning the socialist badge. I can't imagine they think that's going to take care of him.

[PatrickforO]

10. They may be. Remember that John McCain's 'thinking' behind bringing on

Sarah Palin as his running mate was that 'America loves a maverick, and what could possibly be more maverick-y than bringing on Palin?'

I genuinely think the establishment is blind to the unrest of Americans. I really do. And I'll make my case to see if you agree:

First, consider the pure establishment message we've gotten from the mainstream media, who ignored BOTH Bernie and Trump until it was no longer possible.

Second, when Trump began spouting Nazi-sounding rhetoric, the establishment was aghast, even though they have been themselves responsible for giving these white supremacist xenophobes on the crazy right wing a real voice in American politics, courtesy of the Koch brothers. So what did they do?

They then compelled the mainstream media to 'offer' coverage on Trump 24/7 in the hope that his campaign would implode. This alone makes a compelling case that they are dramatically underestimating the Republican base. This makes definite sense if you've read your Howard Zinn. Oligarchs have been using the 'divide and conquer' strategy for centuries. Knowing this, how can we possibly be surprised if they are now underestimating the right-wing crazies? They have, after all, been using them as pawns in their quest for ever more profits for centuries now.

As to the progressive base, the strategy has always been to defeat us by throwing a nice war. Unions, socialists in fact, were winning in the early part of the twentieth century after many bloody years of demanding basic and reasonable rights in the workplace. But, oh no, we must declare war on Germany! So we did.

Then came the Depression, and the socialists almost won again - they were already being shot down in the streets when Roosevelt won the 1932 election. But Roosevelt was a genius - a real champion for his socioeconomic class. He dragged the robber barons kicking and screaming into a New Deal that actually allowed the capitalist overlords to continue fleecing us for over 75 years now. Oh, they were too myopic to see it that way, but everyone made plenty of money and America built its middle class.

But beginning in 1981 when Reagan infected all three branches of our government like a plague bacillus with his 'Reagan revolution' that so well served oligarchs the world over, we've seen the New Deal constricted and constricted until, as Grover Norquist quips, "we can drown it in a bathtub."

Now, with TPP, which took years to draft, and with which Hillary Clinton assisted, the oligarchs are finally making their move to undermine nation states and eventually impose a corporate government. This is called 'the New World Order' and has been mentioned many times over the last four decades by people who are quite credible, including Bill Clinton, George HW Bush and others.

See, I think the ultra-rich people who REALLY call the shots are rubbing their bony, white, liver-spotted male hands in anticipation of huge profits at the expense of labor, communities, states, nations and the world itself through the mechanisms of the Trans Pacific Partnership. Hell, they aren't worrying about us much at all.

Oh, they are aware that people think the game's rigged, so now, coincidentally there's been some terror attacks by Muslims who sympathize with ISIS. Our military is heavily propagandized to think that Obama's approach is ineffectual and that the 'entire world is laughing at us,' and the right wing noise machine has been denigrating Obama's very humanity for years and now are saying he has a 'different ideology.' Their objective: another lucrative war against an enemy they don't really ever want to defeat because of the profits! God, the profits!!!

So, they are positioning themselves to defeat Clinton in favor of an establishment Republican like Cruz or Rubio because they literally cannot imagine Americans will get out there and help someone like Bernie get elected. They've worked SO HARD after all for SO MANY YEARS to promote apathy, mistrust and hatred of the government. How can someone like Bernie, a (gasp) socialist (shudder) EVER be considered a serious candidate.

So there you have it, Judy. My armchair analysis in all its glory. I disclose now that I'm a fervent Bernie supporter so you'll take the above with the proper grain of salt, but I do resist being labeled a 'conspiracy theorist' on that part about the New World Order. Because the thing is, in spite of the mainstream media's strategic efforts to ridicule and minimize so-called 'conspiracy theories,' the reality is that conspiracies do in fact exist and we are living through one right now.

I'll look forward to hearing your 'take' on the current situation.

[JudyM]

12. I get what you're saying. I believe there is a conspiracy on the right, as well, perhaps not with

the specific contours you describe, but I think there's ample evidence that they are doing everything they can to rig politics in their favor.

I, myself, actually am one of those who mistrusts the vote collecting/counting process, thanks to the advent of (republican activist-owned) computerized systems and hacking, not to mention voter suppression. I witnessed the latter first hand in '04 as I heard story after story as I went door to door in inner city Cleveland to get out the vote for Kerry during the last several days of that race. People had been called by the secretary of state's office (who was coincidentally bush's Ohio campaign mgr) and told they could not vote because.... Their brother was in prison, or they hadn't voted in the last election, or ... On and on, I was aghast. And then the vote flip in the wee hours of the morning that statistical experts said was not logically possible. Not to mention the legal travesty of stopping the Florida vote count 4 years earlier.

So I am leery that even if everyone gets out there with all the youth energy and all our GOTV hours and hours and sweat, the Rethugs may have something up their sleeve to commandeer the win.

Besides that, while I agree with you that they are in a crazy beyond words echo chamber, there are enough of them that are sly like "Fox&quot es) to not be completely missing what's brewing with Bernie's popularity. Which gets us back to my original concern that they are focusing intense heat only on Hillary. Not even any sarcastic asides about "and that socialist Sanders".

[Skwmom]

9. The Republicans DO NOT want to run against honest Bernie with HUGE crossover appeal. n/t

[PatrickforO]

11. No they do not. Also, please check my post immediately above, I'd like any feedback you might have

on my analysis of the current political situation in the United States.

[Skwmom]

21. I am working on it. Will post when I'm done. n/t

[JudyM]

14. If they don't want to run vs him-why are they intensely burning Hillary and no burn for Bernie? Nt

[Skwmom]

8. It would be STUPID to hit Bernie. Rove is courting the GE voters. Let Clinton & the Dem. Establish

attack Bernie.

And with ALL the money she has taken, why do you think the ad focused on Wall Street?

I stand by my comment earlier in the primary season. A majority of the Democratic Establishment are clueless. And they are nothing but sheeple.

[Live and Learn]

4. Exactly. Rovian tactics aren't hard to decipher. nt

[hrmjustin]

13. No! Rove wants to run against Sanders.

It is not hard to see.

[JudyM]

15. That's the way it seems to me, too.

They're trying to get Hillary out of the race.

They're bringing all their firepower to bear, vilifying her. Getting Hillary-hatred in the sound bites on the airwaves. They've either made a calculation that they can beat Bernie easier than Hillary -- or they just hate her so much that it's purely personal.

I'm almost wondering if it's the latter since surely they've seen the polls that have Bernie winning by a larger margin in the GE.

[hrmjustin]

16. The political pros know the polls showing him ahead by 15 percent will not hold.

[JudyM]

17. I don't know about that. Can't just rule out polls when they're supported by throngs when he speaks.

[hrmjustin]

19. I am not saying to rule them out but a 15 point will not happen.

[Skwmom]

20. They are salivating for Hillary. But I think they are betting on Biden so by going after the

Democratic Establishment through Clinton they hope to damage Establishment Joe by by association .

[JudyM]

22. Here's another explanation: they want to extend the primary battle to deplete her $

Posted on another thread: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-19/republican-operatives-are-trying-to-help-bernie-sanders

[Ferd Berfel]

18. Republican have 20 years of op research on Hillary. THEY WANT to run against her

Bernie will befuddle them