The absolute worst thing about this primary

[cali]

is the huge long term damage that's been done to the goal of single payer; a goal that 81% of democrats support. The party apparatchiks, under the experienced, guiding hand of Hillary Clinton, are united in telling us, single payer isn't all that, forget about it. Be happy with what we have. And anyone who thinks Hillary will spend political capital on the public option, is living in fantasyland.

So thanks, Hillary, for sacrificing the future of single payer in the Democratic party, in your noble quest to be President

[daleanime]

1. K&R.....

[liberalmike27]

162. Stay uninsured

You tens of millions of human beings, it's OK with Hillary.

[daleanime]

163. I would rather have health care then insurance.....

if that's OK with you of course.

[Ed Suspicious]

2. Amen. I found her to be annoying before this. I find her straight up dangerous since.

[Enthusiast]

76. Me too.

[PatrynXX]

112. and despite donalds problems

I find them to be exactly the same person just as dangerous.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

160. She has no interest in ordinary people

everything she does has to have $$$ signs attached.

[uponit7771]

3. You're right, maybe Sanders shouldn't have proffered unicorns from his single payer pledge and then

... put non unicorn numbers which will have us payer higher MEDIAN cost (cause few if any employer pays 7.7% for a 50,000usd salary) for single payer despite the savings promise through the government.

[cali]

7. Jaysus, try reading

This isn't about right now. SP has been a long time goal in the party. Hill is stomping on that goal for her own advancement.

[jeff47]

18. He doesn't do reading. (nt)

[Hortensis]

48. Hillary: "Affordable health care is a basic human right."

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/

Both Hillary and Bernie have almost entirely the same goals, just different paths and timetables for achieving them.

PLEASE NOTE: All presidents have to pick their fights. All presidents can only achieve a fraction of what they feel really needs to be done. The GOP/Conservative Right's efforts to block all achievements by the Obama administration will continue through the next Democratic presidency.

We have the ACA, and it will be improved step by step, eventually taking the then-almost-inevitable step of broadening Medicare to all who want it. (Because it makes incredible sense and nothing else does.)

Are you sure you wouldn't rather concentrate efforts at big change right now on raising the minimum wage, stopping that "giant sucking sound" of our wealth disappearing upwards, maybe even...battling the takeover of government by the 0.001% through comprehensive campaign finance reform?

Hillary Clinton's position on campaign finance reform:

"Our democracy should work for everyone, not just the wealthy and well-connected.

We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political system, and drowning out the voices of too many everyday Americans. Our democracy should be about expanding the franchise, not charging an entrance fee.”

Hillary is calling for aggressive campaign finance reform to end the stranglehold that wealthy interests have over our political system and restore a government of, by, and for the people—not just the wealthy and well-connected. Her proposals will curb the outsized influence of big money in American politics, shine a light on secret spending, and institute real reforms to raise the voices of regular voters.

Hillary will:
Overturn Citizens United. Hillary will appoint Supreme Court justices who value the right to vote over the right of billionaires to buy elections. She’ll push for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in order to restore the role of everyday voters in elections.
End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.
Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters.

[The Green Manalishi]

130. Good post, but

Yes. Single payer is more important than ALL OF THE OTHER ISSUES PUT TOGETHER as far as I am concerned.

As someone who was diagnosed with diabetes two weeks before being laid off at the age of 50 I will put it bluntly:

anyone against universal healthcare will be assumed to want to see me dead. and my family. Therefore reciprocation is entirely justified.

If you are against Universal health care, *NOW* I hope you are lined up against a wall and shot, and I will piss on your corpse. I don't care the letter after your name, what else you've done or haven't done, or who you support.

until that is achieved, nothing else matters. The only group of people with an equal claim to existential URGENCY of their demands related to their survival are African Americans. Again- if you're dead, nothing else matters.


BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

[Hortensis]

148. Hillary Clinton is committed to UNIVERSAL healthcare.

Best wishes for your income and your health.

[The Green Manalishi]

157. As I've said all along, I'll support the Democratic candidate

That said, I wish she were more explicit and urgent on it.

It;s funny that, culturally I'm about as 'white' as you can get (Irish American raised middle class small town, etc), but I totally understand where BLM is coming from: If you're fucking dead nothing else matters. If there's a direct and imminent threat to your corporeal existence then anyone not addressing that threat, with urgency, is part of the problem no matter how much you agree with them on everything else,

[uponit7771]

140. Who doesn't?!

Thought so

[Lordquinton]

21. Straight outta fox news those words are

Maybe drop the Right wing words and come back to the left?

[uponit7771]

66. Can't point out the part that's false, that's ok... we don't have to talk about facts and stuff

[Lordquinton]

135. Unicorns are factual now?

[cui bono]

138. LOL!

Perfect.

.

[baldguy]

99. +1000. The worst thing to happen to single payer would be a failure to get it passed.

Pres Bernie is setting up for a HUGE failure.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. Scalia warned us, if we legalized teh Gay Marriage before long people would be proffering unicorns

sick, I tell you, sick

[ablamj]

114. Yeah it's sick

That's why we need Medicare for all!

[uponit7771]

139. I've changed it to magical asterisks .. unicorns is too touchy for people

[rhett o rick]

136. The conservative Democrats lied to us. They said that we couldn't ask for more, that we

had to settle for the ACA which was a FIRST STEP. They didn't tell us that they weren't interested in any further steps. H. Clinton is at least being honest in telling the lower classes to forget getting single payer. The Wealthy 1% don't think we deserve more.

We must have change from the corruption brought to us by the American Aristocracy.

[uponit7771]

141. No one told anyone that, people should stop believing everything they hear from FAUX news

[mmonk]

4. That and a still inadequate regulatory regimen

in the finance field with even bigger too big to fail investment banks.

[99th_Monkey]

5. Hillary was for single-payer, before she was against it. Now 20 years later "It's just too hard" nt

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

40. "It's just too hard" ...like breaking up Wall Street

"It's just too hard" ...like bringing back Glass Stegal

"It's just too hard" ...like giving diplomacy a chance instead of war.


"It's just too hard" ...like being honest.


"It's just too hard" ...like working for the 99%.

[Jackilope]

129. ... and then she has the audacity to instruct us to vote

with our heads and not our hearts.

Well, I say to her "Cut that out!" People can sense which is the sincere candidate -- and it sure as heck is not her.

[avaistheone1]

133. I remember a time when we aspired to do things in this country because they were hard...

We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

John F. Kennedy Moon Speech - Rice Stadium
September 12, 1962


Sigh...

[99th_Monkey]

134. +10 nt

[Hiraeth]

158. ^^^ K&R for this post alone. Should be an OP. Thanks. ^^^

[HassleCat]

6. She needs to change her tune

She needs to make it clear her incremental tinkering will result in something similar enough to single payer to be OK. It won't, of course, but she needs to say it will. A failure on this issue will cause many Democrats to stay home election day.

[Auggie]

8. K&R. Clinton is sending Single Payer backward. That's unforgivable.

[Hortensis]

49. NO. This ISN'T THE TIME for that battle.

We have the ACA, an enormous advance over what we had before.

Let's get money out of politics. Win that one, and all other goals become far more achievable faster.

[passiveporcupine]

56. Not good at multitasking?

[randys1]

57. Have to do both, and now. The HC costs for average citizens is outrageous and we dont have to

tolerate it.

[Auggie]

85. +1

[Paulie]

98. Keep stocking up on dry powder

It may stack as high as the moon but we gotta keep it dry!

[jeff47]

122. The ACA is not sustainable in the long run.

We've had some respite from rising healthcare costs, but they are still going up much faster than inflation, and waaaaaaaay faster than wages.

If left alone, we're going to have a huge problem with a mandate for utterly unaffordable insurance - the subsidies are based on poverty level. There will be a lot of people above 200% FPL who will not be able to afford health insurance.

The ACA is and always was a stopgap. We have to keep fighting this battle or the ACA will collapse.

[Hortensis]

149. Yes, the ACA will continue to be improved.

Frankly, I doubt the ACA will be replaced directly in the foreseeable future. Too many people have drunk the Kool-Aid and will fight for their right to pay profiteers to process their paperwork at great expense.

Instead, the ACA will be tweaked as needed, and eventually the single-payer option the entire nation needs will be made available. At that point, large numbers of people will choose single-payer and the ACA's for-profit market will begin to collapse.

Private-enterprise "insurance" companies will continue to offer Cadillac and specialty policies outside the government system.

[ChiciB1]

128. There Will Be NO Getting Money Out Of Politics If She's

the nominee. Do some homework and see where HER MONEY IS COMING FROM!!!!!!!

BTW, for the first time since I've had my Retiree Humana PPO, I'm having to pay $42.50 a month. That's on top of what I pay for Medicare! So look behind what the ACA really did. Yes, it started the ball rolling, but behind the door concessions were made with Big Pharma and Insurance Companies! THEY HAVE TO GO!

As much as I dislike putting ACA down, there are people now who are finding that their plan has higher deductibles and covers less. Check it out. Doctors are now calling for what Bernie is talking about. Scrap ACA and start from scratch. My daughter and son-in-law both work in the medical field and have Masters Degrees as ARNP's and see their own patients who have been complaining about this.

[Vincardog]

9. It isn't up to our bought and paid for "Leaders" it is up to US. It is time the democratic "leaders"

Began to lead in the direction WE want to go.

[TM99]

10. Anyone paying attention knew this was going to happen.

Sensible woodchucks yammered on that single payer, medicare for all, whatever we call it was never going to pass even with Democratic majorities. We must accept the insurance mandate (which Clinton campaigned on in 2008 and pushed in 1993) as the greatest advancement of the social safety net since Medicare.

Some of us tried to tell everyone then that once the ACA passed there was never going to be a building up of universal healthcare for all on top of it. Not only would it take D majorities in Congress and the White House, but it would take a Democratic party that really and truly believed in that. Obama didn't, at least not enough. Clinton sure as hell doesn't believe in it. Sanders is the only one.

Clinton isn't sacrificing it. She never wanted it to begin. Ever! If we want half a chance of getting this, Sanders must be in the White House. Then we can work on getting more progress D's in congress.

[passiveporcupine]

58. I think you are wrong

Some of us tried to tell everyone then that once the ACA passed there was never going to be a building up of universal healthcare for all on top of it.

Because the numbers are going to force it. Too many people even on ACA cannot afford their deductibles and Hillary is not going to get them down by much (if at all), no matter what she says. And too many can't afford the premiums either...especially older people, as the premiums really go up for them.

Single payer will happen and the sooner we push it through (and it will take us...the public...pushing it, not just a senator or President) the sooner it will start to actually help the middle class move back toward middle class again.

Before it was passed, people couldn't see the numbers. They are starting to see them and pay attention now.

[TM99]

63. No, some of us did predict that

an insurance mandate would lead to high deductibles. We also predicted that tiered care would become cost prohibitive. We knew these numbers were coming. So did those on the inside pushing this upon us.

The only way to get a national health care system is slowly phase it in as we phase out the ACA. I do not think the two are ever going to be compatible. We can't just scrap the ACA of course, slowly adding recipients by age group to medicare is important.

Sanders latest plan is not a single payer. It is a Medicare for all.

[passiveporcupine]

67. I'm not talking about ACA

I think you are wrong in thinking single payer can never happen. It will take a big push by us...grassroots getting behind someone leading in Washington (like Bernie) and helping to get dems back in congress and getting money out of politics...all those things are possible if we work together. Being a quitter because it's just too hard, never got anything done.

No, Medicare has co-pays, premiums and deductibles. His plan has one tax payment and that's it. You are covered. That is single payer.

[TM99]

71. I would argue it is a combination then.

Medicare is already in place. Shift every one to it. A single tax payment yes and covered. Then work to address the rest.

I just don't see us completely replacing one system for another with success any time soon.

[passiveporcupine]

78. There will always be private insurance companies.

Last edited Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

That is what Medicare uses now to administer healthcare. 30 different private insurance companies. There will always be cadillac plans available for the wealthy who want more. Bernie is not going to end all private insurance. But there is no reason he can't offer his single payer plan, which will just be Medicare modified to his new rules. Instead of paying a tax for Medicare it will be a tax for single payer, but no more deductibles and premiums and co-pays.

He's not taking anything away...just changing it. If you already have insurance through your employer, you will now have it through the federal government, but your employer still kicks in their contribution (not sure I agree with this). It's a health insurance plan, but it will probably be administered by private insurers, just like Medicare is now, so if you have an ACA or company plan, the same provider may be the one assigned to handle your new single payer plan.

It needs to be fleshed out, but he's on the right track and we need to get behind him and force it through.

[TM99]

90. Yes, now we are in agreement.

[stillwaiting]

11. This alone should galvanize us to BEAT her NOW. If she wins the damage will be done.

If she doesn't win, then her message is REJECTED, and Bernie will most certainly tell the American people repeatedly that we CAN do it.

She must lose to Bernie.

[pangaia]

33. Even if she doesn't win she will have caused huge damage

Too bad she doesn't give a shit.

I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT !! ME ME ME !!!

[pinebox]

12. "Apparatchiks" lol Quote of the day

[pinebox]

13. I'll share this EVERY SINGLE CHANCE I GET!

[pangaia]

35. THIS should be EVERYWHERE!!

TV, newspaper, the intertubes..... everywhere...

[arcane1]

51. "Shame on ANY DEM who attacks single-payer."

She stands for nothing.

[dreamnightwind]

145. She never once mentioned single payer in that vid

and as far as I can tell, she never does.

The corporate politicians, again and again, attempt to conflate universal with single payer, and they are not the same, yet we fall for it, over and over again.

When someone says they support universal healthcare, we need to call them on it and make them say if they mean single payer or not. In almost all cases when a politician says universal, they mean requiring everyone to buy private health insurance. In most cases that regular citizens say universal, they are thinking of single payer.

I support single payer, and will not fall for the false advertising used when politicians say universal. Neither should anyone else.

[arcane1]

161. Great point!

[geardaddy]

59. +1 million n/t

[Stryder]

70. Oh my.

Hadn't seen that one before.
Let's keep that bookmarked.
Dem health care debate. Over.

[Duval]

79. Thanks, pinebox.

[Jackilope]

131. "Shame On You, Hillary"

I would live to see that video edited with then and now footage so that we can visually and audibly see how HRC -- the darling of Wall St,-- morphs into what her tirade was all about. The HRC of 08 and HRC of now in regards to lecturing about core Democratic principles and how she behaves now should be posted on every social media platform.

[msongs]

14. another extremely prominent DC democrat killed that off 7 years ago nt

[Indepatriot]

15. Mr. Pop speaks the truth.

[geardaddy]

61. +1

Love Iggy!

[brooklynite]

16. It's always nice to have an advance excuse for your failure.

[cali]

17. That is puerile nonsense

[brooklynite]

20. Okay, try this...

Paul Krugman: "a simple, straightforward single-payer system just isn’t going to happen"

What this means, as the health policy expert Harold Pollack points out, is that a simple, straightforward single-payer system just isn’t going to happen. Even if you imagine a political earthquake that eliminated the power of the insurance industry and objections to higher taxes, you’d still have to protect the interests of workers with better-than-average coverage, so that in practice single-payer, American style, would be almost as kludgy as Obamacare.

Which brings me to the Affordable Care Act, which was designed to bypass these obstacles. It was careful to preserve and even enlarge the role of private insurers. Its measures to cover the uninsured rely on a combination of regulation and subsidies, rather than simply on an expansion of government programs, so that the on-budget cost is limited — and can, in fact, be covered without raising middle-class taxes. Perhaps most crucially, it leaves employer-based insurance intact, so that the great majority of Americans have experienced no disruption, in fact no change in their health-care experience.

Even so, achieving this reform was a close-run thing: Democrats barely got it through during the brief period when they controlled Congress. Is there any realistic prospect that a drastic overhaul could be enacted any time soon — say, in the next eight years? No.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7540388

[ymetca]

23. Krugman is being pretty disingenuous...

Go read this:

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/34499-hillary-clinton-declares-war-on-single-payer-health-care

[bvf]

73. Good read!

Clinton looks just terrible in this, and rightly so. All opportunism, zero integrity.

I especially liked Corcoran's take on Krugman's argument:

(Krugman) acknowledges, unlike Clinton, that the savings from single-payer would offset any tax increase. But when he says (emphasis added) "it would be difficult to make that case to the broad public, especially given the chorus of misinformation you know would dominate the airwaves," he is unwittingly describing Hillary Clinton herself.

[Enthusiast]

86. Excellent article! Krugman is flat out lying.

[mhatrw]

27. "No, We Can't!"

[jeff47]

29. We have been fighting for single-payer for more than 80 years.

If you think "but you can't pass it in the next two!!!" is going to stop us, you're quite wrong.

[randome]

42. If by 'we', you mean America in general, I disagree.

Politicians have been doing the fighting. The people have been on the sidelines, which is why nothing will ever get done.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[jeff47]

47. Because if you don't personally see it, it never happened, right?

[zeemike]

50. That's the spin they put on it.

"I'ts a complete overhaul of the system"...and so it can't be done.

And that is bullshit...I say don't touch the system at all...leave it just as it is and just lower the age of Medicare and allow people to buy into it instead of the ACA to comply with the mandate...problem solved.
If the system as it now exists is a good one it will survive, if not it will wither on the vine and die...is not that what the invisible hand of the market wants?

[passiveporcupine]

64. Medicare needs a lot of improvement for it to work as single payer

Affordability is just one issue. Lack of necessary coverage, like vision, dental too. I don't know if hearing is covered. Medicare is there for emergencies, but without an advantage plan to help pay for it, it's just unaffordable for many of us.

[zeemike]

75. Affordability is the first issue.

If that is not met then the rest is moot.
And affordability it the problem with the ACA...millions cannot afford it but it is mandated anyway...so they will have to buy a plan that has such a high deductible that health care will be out of reach still...and that is for things more pressing than dental and vision.

BTW I am on Medicare and do not have advantage plan...it has kept me alive and that is something. I would love more coverage but that will never happen as long as the approach is for profit and not single payer.

[passiveporcupine]

84. T totally agree with everything you've said here.

Medicare has kept me alive too, but I can't afford the things that might give me quality of life, like the full knee replacement and physical therapy that I need.

And maybe you don't have serious dental or vision problems, but they too can seriously affect your quality of life and your ability to function in society.

[zeemike]

108. No I could defiantly benefit from them.

And like you I can't afford them.
And the way things are going I probably will have to die with bad teeth and poor vision and hearing...because profit is more important.

[passiveporcupine]

116. Let's get Bernie into office and see where that takes us!

I'm not giving up on him.

[zeemike]

121. Absolutely.

He is our best shot at real change.

[passiveporcupine]

60. Krugman is an establishment insider. n/t

You want to know what is really happening, listen to Richard D Wolff.

[Enthusiast]

80. I have added Krugman to my personal enemies list. Any single payer nay sayer gets to join.

[Agony]

107. Krugman admits that Medicare for All is the best solution. He just doesn't think it worth fight for.

I guess both of you got what you need. The 13% of americans that still don't have health insurance can die in a ditch, fuck em'.

and 25% of them will.

[eridani]

142. Really strange that an economist has jackshit to say about the ECONOMICS of single payer

I'm sure glad that advocates of marriage equality and MJ legalization didn't listen to bullshit like this a few years ago.

[democrank]

19. More of the same from Clinton.

Just a repeat of her behavior last time she ran for president. She`ll say ANYTHING if she thinks it will help her get elected. ANYTHING.
And, she doesn`t give a damn who she has to mow over while she`s saying it.

[Enthusiast]

87. It ain't workin' on me.

[Renew Deal]

22. I think the lack of specificity by the Sanders campaign is causing the real damage.

It looks unserious and opens up Sanders to the "fantasyland" critique. There wouldn't be damage if there was a real plan.

[Enthusiast]

88. There is plenty of specificity. There is a real plan. It is the lies that are doing the damage.

How do you think we feel about Hillary now? We love her more because she has saved us from single payer?

[Renew Deal]

96. Have you looked at the plan?

[Renew Deal]

120. I found that plan you were looking for

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511043519

[Enthusiast]

152. You are looking for it, not me.

I trust that this nation can achieve a Medicare For All plan that will be satisfactory to the people. Of course the health care profiteers won't care for it.

The rest of the modern world has single payer universal. I'm sure the USA can cobble something together that doesn't include the pirates.

[beaglelover]

24. Single payer will never get through Congress. It's a pipe dream to think Bernie can

accomplish this. A total pipe dream. We need to build upon the ACA, not destroy it.

[mhatrw]

26. "No, We Can't!"

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

34. Everytime one of them oozes into my view - COMPLETE IGNORE!

It's rare for me to see many Hillbots anymore. In the off chance I do encounter one I scroll into action!

[hopemountain]

94. good job!

[Art_from_Ark]

101. Their "can't do" attitude is getting rather annoying

Ugh!

[Paka]

115. Two or three of the worst have gone missing lately.

I don't have to scroll as often these days it seems.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

155. What ticks me off is even if they are on ignore you still see their OPS

which is what infuriates me most - particularly a certain poster that lives by a bank on a body of water. I just want them all to go away.

[ymetca]

30. The ACA

did nothing much for most people. It did pretty much zero to help the majority who have employer-based (aka "suck-ass&quot health insurance plans, and don't qualify for anything ACA offers. That's millions of hard-working people lucky enough to have a job and not (yet) too sick.

When they say "it is bending the cost curve", translate that as "I can't go see the doctor because I cannot pay the deductable".

In other words, people with employer-based health insurance are getting royally screwed. Worse than ever. Hence all the Republican bloviating on the subject, which the Democrats refuse to even acknowledge.

Which is why Bernie Sanders' pledge for Medicare For All is critical, and it really chaps my ass that Hillary Clinton is trashing it because she is pandering for the black vote. ACA = "Obamacare" = HRC. A not-so-subtle subterfuge. Quite disgusting, actually.

[shenmue]

97. Except fund all my treatment for multiple sclerosis

[riversedge]

153. I am so happy to hear that the ACA has helped you. I, too have a

sister who because of a chronic condition--had no health insurance for years. It has helped so many. Hillary is committed to universal health care--but I think it wise to go in increments at this moment in time.

[pangaia]

37. Never, no, can't do it....

pipe dream...

[Old Codger]

43. It will never

Get through anywhere if no one tries, you sound just like your BFF there, she quits before she starts ...So apparently do you is it all that much fun or is it frustrating to never ever try anything that may not work out the way you want???

All you quitters need to get it together and quit this also...She is in the tank with Wall Street, she has and will continue to sell the rest of us out just to get her dream,a night mare for the 99% but sweet dreams for the 1%...

she and her bunch just keep on quitting it is what losers do... Wrong side of the table this time around...

[Plucketeer]

82. Yeah - all we need is some duct tape, a bit of imaginative sleight-of-hand

some splints 'n splices and the ACA will be the envy of the world.

[mhatrw]

25. There is a special circle of hell reserved for Hillary and all of her "No, We Can't" shills.

Last edited Fri Jan 22, 2016, 12:17 AM - Edit history (1)

It's an emergency waiting room with No Exit.

[Enthusiast]

89. Huge +1!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. She's also the type to put the ACA on the table for a trade deal.

[Prism]

31. And her campaign and supporters are starting to sound like Republicans

A strong social safety net is one of the foundational planks of the Democratic Party.

Suddenly, everyone's like, "Noooo, my taxes! We need tax cuts!"

So, we're all George W. Bush now, are we?

Her candidacy is cannibalizing basic Democratic premises to boost herself.

Whatever, liberalism, it's Hillary's trophy. That's all that matters!

So weird.

Curbing Wall Street is also, you know, hard and stuff. And only Clinton has the foreign policy chops to continue an unmitigated string of neoconservative clusterfucks!

It's like no one hears themselves.

[Old Codger]

45. Starting???

Started long time ago..

[MuseRider]

32. I wish I could rec this

a thousand times.

All I see and hear is that we need to stop wishing for better things. We can do little bits that don't really help anyone and even then only a few of those little bits. Why try to make it better when it is so hard? Those poor people on the streets? Move them, problem solved. You get sick and you are in group you can't afford? Too bad, so sad, it just has to be this way. Well they sure as hell take good care of themselves. Enough so that they can talk about money like it is uninteresting to them and never know how that sounds to the 99%.

We are so screwed when even our dreams for a better country for all of us get shut down by the people we hire to help make it work. Yes, our dreams are too grand. Stop it, just cut it out.

[DanTex]

36. Any damage that has been done is Bernie's fault for not presenting a remotely realistic plan.

Although the chances of single payer were zero before this, and zero after, so I don't think it's much of a loss.

[TIME TO PANIC]

38. A vote for Hillary is a vote to take single-payer off the table for at least eight years.

Think about all the lives that will continue to be lost, because health care is still unaffordable.

[Arugula Latte]

39. She is selfish, arrogant, and entitled.

[libdem4life]

41. We will have Single Payer...Hillary is off the rails. That is a Democratic Foundation.

She can just go and run the Clinton Foundation and see how well that works when there is no political power to wield. the one word that puts the fear of gawd into her...irrelevancy.

[Enthusiast]

91. +1 an entire shit load.

[oberliner]

44. I think the opposite is true

I think Sanders has made a very convincing case for single payer and will push for it aggressively if he is elected president.

[hopemountain]

46. hillary is weak and phony

she is showing her true colors under all of this pressure. deep down, she is for the 1%, through and through. now when i see her on television i understand how much of an act she puts out - and it is cracking like glass. she just may shatter.

[Enthusiast]

92. +1 a whole bunch!

[Francis Booth]

53. Very good point. Well spoken. nt

[morningfog]

54. And she is just getting started with her shit slinging.

[Beacool]

55. Reality check.

'But as Clinton reminded voters during the Democratic debate on Sunday, President Obama's not-very-revolutionary healthcare law barely squeaked through to passage in 2010.

“There was an opportunity to vote for what was called the public option,” she noted — a government-run plan that wasn't even as ambitious as single payer. “And even when the Democrats were in charge of the Congress, we couldn't get the votes for that.”

In other words: You can't get there from here.

Clinton is probably right. A Kaiser Family Foundation poll last year found that only 26% of Americans want to expand Obamacare — mostly Democrats. A far larger number, 42%, want to scale the plan back or scrap it entirely. (Most of those are non-Democrats, but once the question is before Congress, their preference matters too.)

Besides, Sanders hasn't even begun to sell single payer to the American public — unless you count giving his plan the comforting title “Medicare for All.”

Almost nine months after he announced his candidacy, he still hasn't produced a full description of how his proposal would work. He released an eight-page summary before Sunday's debate, but it focused on how he would pay for the plan (new taxes, mostly on the wealthy), not how it would actually deliver care.'

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0120-mcmanus-sanders-clinton-revolution-20160120-column.html

[Enthusiast]

93. We don't care about another fake assed organization like the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Their findings are fake just like the Heritage Foundation and the other fake assed propaganda outfits.

Hillary is definitely wrong.

We have the entire developed world as an example. Hillary is definitely wrong. She is going to lose because she betrayed us.

[hopemountain]

104. yes, fake as in 'controlled by the establishment'

as someone else pointed out: look at the lists of their board members.

[Armstead]

102. no we can't no we can't no we can't

so inspiring.

[tularetom]

105. So lets just give up

In fact what's the point of fighting for anything. We have to be pragmatic like Hillary. We can't get all this pie in the sky stuff so why delude ourselves any longer.

In fact, since she's more or less told us that we have to lower our expectations, whats the point of electing her? We can either have her dismantle Social Security or have a republican president do it. We can either have her start WW3 or have a republican do it.

[Mnpaul]

111. We can't get there

if we keep electing corporate sellouts. Democrats and Lieberman killed the public option. Democrats had the single payer folks tossed from the hearings. If we keep voting for the same old, nothing will change for the better.

[Utopian Leftist]

62. The Republicons biggest fear about "Obamacare"

was that the populace would deduce from it that medical care is a human right, rather than a luxury bestowed at-will upon workers by their employer uberlords.

They did not want us to come to our senses and realize that there is NO reason why America should be without what EVERY other country in the developed world has!

Yes, their biggest fear was that we would come to our senses and realize that health care is a human right, IF WE ONLY CHOOSE TO MAKE IT ONE!

[PowerToThePeople]

65. That is what they want

If you are correct, they win even if Hillary loses. I hope you are not correct.

[Bill USA]

68. do you think this can be done without Dems controlling BOTH the House and Senate?

[pnwmom]

69. I think the opposite. Sanders' insistence that the ACA must now be replaced

by his $14 trillion version of Medicare-for-all just means that BOTH parties would be saying (if he's the nominee) that the ACA was no good and should be replaced.

The Rethugs will promise they have some plan much cheaper than $14 trillion -- whether they do or don't -- and voters will jump for it.

[CharlotteVale]

72. K&R and I fear for what else she'd throw under the bus that will hurt us.

[Enthusiast]

74. I'm not about to accept the ACA as the final evolution of this health care system.

Considering all the other developed nations have universal single payer it is ridiculous to remain with the status quo.

We cannot continue to pay this amount of money which amounts to nothing more than a gift to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

HILLARY IS WRONG.

[Hoyt]

77. Yep Third Way Oligarchs -- like Krugman and Klein -- have no idea of what they speak.

The GOPers can't wait to jump on board and help Sanders and Democrats pass Single Payer.

[Armstead]

100. No we can't no we can't no we can't no we can't no we can't no we can't

[Uncle Joe]

81. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, cali.

[Smarmie Doofus]

83. I'm not sure it's the absolute worst thing, but it's pretty bad. K and R

[Enthusiast]

95. Kicked and recommended a bazillion times! Because fuck this shit!

[TubbersUK]

103. K & R n/t

[Beartracks]

106. Even if we reach for single-payer, and all we get is...

... the Public Option put into the ACA, THAT will be a big improvement.

But if we only end up reaching for the Public Option to start with, the whole effort will be negotiated away to something negligible.

=====================

[Paka]

110. K&R

[emsimon33]

113. No, her ignoble quest for president

Given how she is alienating the liberal base, if she is the nominee, she won't win. Soooo, thank you for giving the country to the Republicans (and a BIG thanks to DSW, who needs to be disappeared.) if you are the nominee.

[Beacool]

117. Ignoble quest????

Yes, let's all hail Sanders, the Saint of Liberalism. How dare Hillary run for president against such a paragon of political virtue?

This place is nuts.

[Doctor_J]

118. Also, "doing away with the insurance companies would tarnish Obama's legacy"

I can't even believe you can read this kind of shit on a Dem site. The end of the party. If the Republicans ever get back to letting sane people run for president, there won't be enough Dems left to play cricket

[morningfog]

119. The worst thing is Hillary felt the need to run another shitty campaign.

[truebluegreen]

123. The worst thing is Hillary felt the need to run at all.

[morningfog]

124. True. And a leopard can't change its stripes.

Had that pesky socialist not meddled in her right to the nomination, she wouldn't have had to turn so nasty. Just like that upstart from '08.

[DrBulldog]

126. Ha! Ha! Ha! Good one!

A leopard with stripes! That really does describe Hillary! What in hell is she?

[DrBulldog]

125. The slogan "No, we can't" coming from the Clinton campaign is horrible for our nation.

Yet Hillary claims she wants to follow the legacy of "Yes, we can" Obama. LOL.

[ChiciB1]

127. As Each Day Goes By, My Feelings About Her Plummet More...

The worst of it is this... IF she is the nominee I'll have to vote for someone I completely dislike and know in my heart of hearts that what she's saying in her run this time is just a whole lotta BUNK!

I -- DO -- NOT -- BELIEVE -- HER! I feel our very own Democratic Party is really selling us something we don't want to buy. Has a bad odor and difficult to digest.

I so wish I felt differently because this is the very first time I've felt this much distrust in a Democratic candidate in my life! I could make a long list of my reasons, but I've said enough.

[sammythecat]

147. Exactly how I feel as well.

"If she is the nominee I'll have to vote for someone I completely dislike..."

[avaistheone1]

132. Don't blame me. I told you already Hillary is disingenuous.

[George II]

137. How about the huge long-term damage done to Democrats up and down the ticket by....

....the divisiveness of the Sanders campaign?

No Democratic majority in either House? No chance of single payer!

By the way, if single payer was so important to Sanders, why has he been unable to convince the powers that be in his home state of Vermont (i.e, Democrats) to implement it there?

[jtuck004]

143. Leave it to the Democrats and Republicans and you will never see single payer. n/t

[dreamnightwind]

146. K & R, I don't think it's the worst thing, but it IS terrible

That I feel there are others things even worse (the hope-a-dope on getting money out of politiccs by supporting a corporate politician who says she will try to do so would be my choice) in no way diminishes the damage she is doing to single payer advocacy.

And I'll repeat one more thing here that I guess I need to keep repeating, because I see it agan and again in people's posts (not the OP, which used the correct language): Universal healthcare DOES NOT MEAN single payer!

Over and over again, Hillary and her supporters say "universal", and when they do people hear "single payer". Big mistake. The establishment politicians supporting universal are supporting a system to require every American to purchase private health insurance.

It's my opinion the private insurers are the problem, not the solution, and we need single payer.

Thanks for the OP.

[RKP5637]

151. I started out really supporting her, but now I've gone the other way. The more I see and hear

of HRC, now, the more I like Bernie. I will certainly vote in the GE for the nominee, but I do like Bernie. He reminds me of what democrats used to be like when I was a kid.

[Amimnoch]

154. Wow, we almost agree on this,

Except I blame Sanders for his lies.

If there was ANY chance.. at all.. that the 115th congress would pass any version of a single payer.. you and Bernie would have a point.

but there isn't, and you don't.

To have tossed out single payer and raised the hopes of so many where there is absolutely NO POSSIBILITY of it passing with any potential version of the next congress was irresponsible and damaging.

Your candidate did the damage by lying and pretending that it could be put on the table. Bernie is the quintessential politician. Lies through his teeth and promises things he knows damn well he'd never be able to accomplish.

Hell, President Obama, with a MUCH more sympathetic version of congress in 2009, tried with everything he had to just get the Government option on the table and couldn't. This is another Sanders unicorn.



Now.. let the "but at least he's going to try" bullshit begin.

[marble falls]

156. k & r!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Skeeter Barnes]

159. $250,000 per hour is fine for her and Bill but she thinks $15 per hour is too much for you and me.