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cali

(114,904 posts)
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:00 PM Jan 2016

Frank Rich: It’s Time to Get Serious About Bernie Sanders

As Bernie Sanders increases his lead over Hillary Clinton to 27 points in one New Hampshire poll (and appears to be closing the gap nationally), some in the media have begun to wonder why they didn't see this pre-caucus surge coming. Is it time for the Democratic elite to more broadly reconsider Sanders's candidacy?

Let’s face it: This is going to be remembered as the election where almost no one in either party’s Establishment or the political news media saw anything coming. So why should the Bernie Sanders surge be any different? Writing at CNN Politics, Dylan Byers points out that the Times, whose supposedly data-driven "Upshot" column is still trying to explain why it declared Donald Trump near death last summer, buried Sanders’s announcement of his candidacy on page 21 — versus the page-one play given Clinton, Trump, and Ted Cruz.

I certainly have been no seer in the case of Sanders. I have never believed — and still don’t — that he can be elected president even though I prefer almost everything about his views and record to Clinton’s. To me he has three problems in a national election: He’s 74; he can be stigmatized as a nominal “socialist” (though that nomenclature may not carry much weight, negative or otherwise, to 21st-century American voters, beyond the claque who think every Democrat is a socialist); and he’s Jewish, a fact that few want to discuss as a possible hindrance to a national general-election candidacy.

I also thought Sanders couldn’t win the Democratic nomination because he has so little support from the party’s crucial African-American constituency. My theory was that while Clinton is a dreadful candidate running a campaign as tone-deaf as the one that imploded in 2008, she’d still triumph thanks to the loyalty of black voters, Sanders’s aforementioned handicaps, her command of the party hierarchy, and her fund-raising clout. I may be proven wrong about all of this. The enthusiasm of Sanders supporters has translated not just into big crowds but into enormous financial support for his campaign by individual donors; he has been pursuing black voters under the media radar; and the Clinton campaign is looking panicked and confounded by a youth-led insurgency in 2016 just as it was eight years ago. The recent effort of a Clinton backer, David Brock, to cast aspersions on Sanders’s (apparently sound) health backfired; so did Chelsea Clinton’s dishonest claim that Sanders wanted to dismantle government health care (he wants to expand upon Obamacare). Meanwhile, Sanders has gotten tougher on Clinton. In the last debate, he tied her speaking fees from Goldman Sachs around her neck like an anvil. He has demolished her grandiose claims about the value of her experience by going after her vote for the Iraq War. Barack Obama did that, too, and Clinton is nearly as flummoxed by this predictable line of attack now as she was then.


<snip>

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/time-to-get-serious-about-bernie-sanders.html

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Frank Rich: It’s Time to Get Serious About Bernie Sanders (Original Post) cali Jan 2016 OP
K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2016 #1
K+R draa Jan 2016 #2
He may be 74, but he could take Elizabeth Warren as his running mate... cascadiance Jan 2016 #3
Worth contemplating: He could bow out in mid-term and let warren take over. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #7
I think he should serve a full term, which would also give her a lot of good experience too... cascadiance Jan 2016 #14
Bernie was/is a long distance runner. ozone_man Jan 2016 #25
You are right; still things happen when you get old. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #37
+1 Paka Jan 2016 #15
I like that idea. LuvNewcastle Jan 2016 #18
Two white senators from New England? oberliner Jan 2016 #22
The hubris of the Democratic Elite and their choosen candidate will be their undoing. rhett o rick Jan 2016 #4
"He's Jewish" OK Frank Rich, you are an ass. nt thereismore Jan 2016 #5
Yeah. well this white girl born and raised in the south thinks that's a compliment. Punkingal Jan 2016 #8
I totally agree. We can wait for the right first woman president. Probably next time. libdem4life Jan 2016 #11
Yes, the right first woman president. ozone_man Jan 2016 #29
He's not criticizing elljay Jan 2016 #20
Yes, i heard about the evil Jews all my growing up years. Punkingal Jan 2016 #21
It is nothing new for minorities to talk smack about their own. libdem4life Jan 2016 #30
That is the big shocker in the article. JDPriestly Jan 2016 #13
I'm sorry but I didn't read it that way. navarth Jan 2016 #23
Not a problem in the primaries. ozone_man Jan 2016 #32
I don't think Bernie is Jenny_92808 Jan 2016 #34
Something's happening: NPR played a 7 sec. clip from a Sanders' speech!!! Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #6
No way!!? ozone_man Jan 2016 #35
Under believeable! Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #36
He's 74. Wow. SheenaR Jan 2016 #9
I know! It's not like it's a May-December race. They're all Octobers in this race. nt valerief Jan 2016 #12
I'm 72. pangaia Jan 2016 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2016 #10
Well,, we have this.. pangaia Jan 2016 #16
I believe being Jewish helps Bernie when it comes to his call to aggressively normalize Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #17
I saw it comming they were begging to get spanked PatrynXX Jan 2016 #24
K & R! SoapBox Jan 2016 #26
I have never believed — and still don’t — that he can be elected president ... Really? Mass Jan 2016 #27
In 2008, one could have said the following about Obama . . . markpkessinger Jan 2016 #33
Why did this man write this column? Is he stupid? Proserpina Jan 2016 #28
Great -- Let's bring out the "He's a Jew" card now Armstead Jan 2016 #31
Another Stockholm Syndrome opinion being floated Sheepshank Jan 2016 #38
 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
3. He may be 74, but he could take Elizabeth Warren as his running mate...
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:19 PM
Jan 2016

... declare himself up front as a one term president to help foster the idea that Warren would be set to be the favored candidate in 2020 then, which I think would help a lot galvanize the woman vote, and also set a GOOD template for future women presidents that will make us want to elect them more and more down the road.

I think many will wonder if future African American presidents will also push things like crappy free trade agreements and not prosecute Wall Street criminals even as much as Ronald Reagan did in his time. I hope we get more African American presidents down the road, but Obama may have set the template a bit off with some of the things he's done (or not done!). That is why for me, I really want someone like Elizabeth Warren as our president in 2020, because I WANT more women presidents in the future, and EW being president in 2020 I think will more likely lead to that happening then. I'm concerned that someone like Clinton elected and not changing anything at a critical time in our history with her corrupted ties to the 1% will lead us to push women candidates more away down the road than embrace them.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
14. I think he should serve a full term, which would also give her a lot of good experience too...
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:09 PM
Jan 2016

But commit to not running for reelection so that women could have the expectation that Elizabeth Warren would not only be the financial expert that she is so much more so than most other congress people today working for us rather than Wall Street, but then she'd also have the necessary foreign policy and other executive branch experience that would be provided as VP to become one of the best qualified women to run for office as well as being one that is more campaigning towards being the people's rep than just about anyone with those qualifications. I really think she could have a huge party unification behind her as well as huge coat tails to get the people we need in the rest of congress and in states swept in for the Democrats to not only give us sizable majorities, but also unravel all of the gerrymandering in a census year then too that has screwed our system so much over the last decade since 2010.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
25. Bernie was/is a long distance runner.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:26 PM
Jan 2016

You should take that literally and figuratively. I think he is in outstanding health, and with a youthful passion. Perhaps that is why he has so many young supporters. I think so.

LuvNewcastle

(16,844 posts)
18. I like that idea.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:21 PM
Jan 2016

He going to need a good, strong running mate. If he ends up going against Trump and Bloomberg, they are going to throw the entire weight of their cash at him. Lots of negative shit. He needs someone who already has a fan base of her own.

I really like the imagery of Bernie going up against 2 billionaires, though. The campaign ads practically write themselves. I think it's going to be a hell of a year if Bloomberg enters.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
22. Two white senators from New England?
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:52 PM
Jan 2016

I don't think that is a winning strategy.

Don't you see that as a problem?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
4. The hubris of the Democratic Elite and their choosen candidate will be their undoing.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:25 PM
Jan 2016

I just hope it won't be our undoing. They are willing to risk losing the general to fight for HRC.

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
8. Yeah. well this white girl born and raised in the south thinks that's a compliment.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:35 PM
Jan 2016

It isn't anything to criticize. I think it's time we have a Jewish president.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
29. Yes, the right first woman president.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:31 PM
Jan 2016

The presidency is not about gender or race, but they do weigh heavily. Let's wait for Elizabeth Warren, for example.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
20. He's not criticizing
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:31 PM
Jan 2016

Frank Rich is Jewish, too. What he's saying is that there is still quite a bit of antisemitism in the U.S.) not to mention the rest of the world) and there are likely many people who will just not vote for a Jew. For some evidence, I don't know what sites you read, but head over to RawStory occasionally and read any story that mentions the word "Israel" or "Jew." You will see comments that would be greeted with outrage if directed to other ethnic/religious groups. I'm not talking about reasoned criticism of Israeli policies or of the particular story. I'm talking about claims that rich Jews run the world, own all the media and banks, are equivalent to Nazis, created ISIL and support its massacres, etc. Then go to the neo-Nazi site Stormfront and read similar posts (minus the Nazi part, which would be a compliment to them!) Just as Obama's election exposed more racism than many thought still existed, Sanders' candidacy will no doubt get the bigots crawling out from under their rocks....

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
21. Yes, i heard about the evil Jews all my growing up years.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:38 PM
Jan 2016

As with African Americans, I decided to make my own decisions. And I know you are right, they will all come out of the woodwork. Too bad.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
13. That is the big shocker in the article.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:59 PM
Jan 2016

What? Are we already the Fourth Reich?

The Republicans judged Obama based on the color of his skin.

Do we really think that Democrats would judge Sanders on his religion.

What's more, Jane Sanders is Catholic. I suppose we can't have a Catholic or a Jew in the White House according to Frank Rich.

I don't think anyone who would vote for Sanders if he were Christian would vote AGAINST Sanders because he is Jewish. I just don't think it makes any difference to Democrats or to Christians. And certainly not to Muslims who should like his stance on defending freedom of all religions.

Kind of makes the whole article rubbish.

What country are we in anyway??

First Amendment anyone????

navarth

(5,927 posts)
23. I'm sorry but I didn't read it that way.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:58 PM
Jan 2016

It seemed to me that Rich was saying it could be a problem for Bernie in the Presidential. It didn't sound like being Jewish was going to be a problem in primaries. Did I miss something? He begins the paragraph saying he doesn't think "he could ever get elected President".

I don't see how you get to Frank Rich saying we can't have a Catholic or a Jew in the White House from this.

But then again, this is just my 2 cents.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
32. Not a problem in the primaries.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:44 PM
Jan 2016

The fact that he is Jewish.

In the general, he trounces any of the other candidates by large margins. I think when it comes down to it, people vote with their pocket books, and the 1% are running away with theirs. Bernie is good on many issues besides health/finances, but these are the ones we need to survive.

He only needs to win the primary.

 

Jenny_92808

(1,342 posts)
34. I don't think Bernie is
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:03 PM
Jan 2016

a practicing Jew.

"Sanders has said he is "proud to be Jewish" but "not particularly religious."

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
9. He's 74. Wow.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:35 PM
Jan 2016

I love when people say this and I inform them of his youthful 68 year old opponent and the 69 year old nutjob leading on the other side.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
19. I'm 72.
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:23 PM
Jan 2016

I work out 4 x a week. eliptical, nautilus, some weights, walk 2-3 miles/day.. kayak in the summer. BP is about 120/68. Eat healthy (mostly), tai chi...

Travel internationally 7-8x/year ( that AIN'T easy)...

Hell, I could be president.!!

Response to cali (Original post)

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
16. Well,, we have this..
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:12 PM
Jan 2016
My theory was that while Clinton is a dreadful candidate running a campaign as tone-deaf as the one that imploded in 2008,


the Clinton campaign is looking panicked and confounded by a youth-led insurgency in 2016 just as it was eight years ago


The recent effort of a Clinton backer, David Brock, to cast aspersions on Sanders’s (apparently sound) health backfired


In the last debate, he tied her speaking fees from Goldman Sachs around her neck like an anvil.


He has demolished her grandiose claims about the value of her experience by going after her vote for the Iraq War


Clinton is nearly as flummoxed by this predictable line of attack now as she was then.

'
And I didn't even 'click yet.

Uncle Joe

(58,348 posts)
17. I believe being Jewish helps Bernie when it comes to his call to aggressively normalize
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:14 PM
Jan 2016

relations with Iran in regards to Hillary's objection that Iran is still committed to destroying Israel.

Bernie supports Israel, he would never normalize relations so long as this was the case but his stance of being open to dialogue with Iran instead of un-diplomatically casting all Iranians as the enemy that he is most proud of as Hillary did in the first debate keeps the door open to positive developments with Iran, Israel and the Middle East in general.

Bernie also stated that we shouldn't open an embassy with Iran tomorrow, so he's not rushing pell-mell into this but is creating a hopeful, positive environment that could procreate substantial progress in the Middle East.

Thanks for the thread, cali.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
24. I saw it comming they were begging to get spanked
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:10 PM
Jan 2016

when they ignored, bullied and banned people who talked anything negative abotu Clinton smh what goes around comes around. Total Karma. I'd say if she is nominated there's a 50 /50 chance she'll win or lose in November. Bigger problem is DWS made what could have been an easy win for Hillary into a pain in the ass so bad that Democrats might lose bad in 2016 . If I were running for Congress I'd make sure Bernie was standing up for me because it would get the young out to vote.

Mass

(27,315 posts)
27. I have never believed — and still don’t — that he can be elected president ... Really?
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:28 PM
Jan 2016
To me he has three problems in a national election: He’s 74; he can be stigmatized as a nominal “socialist” (though that nomenclature may not carry much weight, negative or otherwise, to 21st-century American voters, beyond the claque who think every Democrat is a socialist); and he’s Jewish, a fact that few want to discuss as a possible hindrance to a national general-election candidacy.


I wonder if Rich wrote something simiar about Obama in 2008. He is black, his father was Muslim and his name sounds like Osama...

Actually, you can probably write the same thing for Hillary ...
She is 69, she is a woman, and her life is full of scandals, so she cannot be elected.

This said, the religious aspect would be a problem in a GOP primary, but he is running for the Democratic nomination. As for the general, he probably would not win TN and a few other states, but saying that something will NEVER happen is how we never try something new.

Kennedy was not supposed to win (he was catholic), Reagan was an actor and divorced, ... May be it is time to stop this crap if no scandal is attached to the person, and as far as I know Sanders has none.

markpkessinger

(8,392 posts)
33. In 2008, one could have said the following about Obama . . .
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:48 PM
Jan 2016

"He's only 47 -- too young and inexperienced; he has a foreign-sounding name; and he's black."

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
28. Why did this man write this column? Is he stupid?
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:30 PM
Jan 2016

He's as tone-deaf as the woman he advocates...more so, since a journalist is supposed to have "sources".

I think all Frank Rich has is the voices in his head, the result of years of brainwashing and bribery. And I used to think he had something to offer....that was before they gelded him.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
38. Another Stockholm Syndrome opinion being floated
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 02:54 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie supporters never tire of the meme.

Author in the op sounds bitter about the upcoming loss. A very poor choice in concession speech.

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