2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTo the Chagrin of the Establishment, Bernie Sanders Refused to Melt at Hillary's Forum
Bernie Sanders Refuses to Meltby Bill McKibben * 1/26/2016 * HuffPo
Bernie Sanders keeps refusing to run the way that the pundits think he should -- that's what makes this primary so interesting and perhaps a turning point in American politics.
You could see it last night in the Democratic town hall. Before they let, you know, sensible people ask questions, there was CNN moderator Chris Cuomo. Cuomo, of course, wanted to know if Bernie Sanders was going to "bring back the era of big government." This is exactly the kind of frame that pundits have been trying to put on American politics for about as long as I can remember, which is at least back to the Carter era.
This question is supposed to be a kind of kryptonite that causes Democratic politicians to sweat and turn pallid and immediately explain that no, they're for efficient government or some such. It's the kind of question that turned Bill Clinton into a triangulating centrist who cut welfare to the bone and elevated corporate power with a series of disastrous trade agreements. Everyone in Washington knows that "big government" is always bad. Bernie wasted no time in saying that he was going to bring back the era when government helped care for people. ... people who have spent their lives working might deserve the chance to relax and be grandparents at the end of the day.
This kind of stuff makes the keepers of our political order crazy. In the last few days, we've seen folks such as Paul Krugman in the New York Times and Paul Starr in Politico patiently explain that Bernie is too far to the left to be president. It's like they're dumping water on the Wicked Witch of the West and waiting for her to shriek, "I'm melting!" But actually, he's just shrugging it off, like a duck. As Cuomo tried to get him to confess to his socialism, his team just tweeted out a list of "socialist" accomplishments: Social Security, the minimum wage, Medicare, the 40-hour workweek.
The Beltway polls don't quite get how much America has changed -- how unequal and desperate it's become. Sanders has spent his career on the back roads of Vermont, which is America's second-most rural state. That means he's met a lot of poor people and a lot of desperate people -- a lot of people like the woman who started crying at his event in Iowa earlier in the day. The Washington Post reporter described it as "a remarkably moving thing," which it was. But since Post political reporters only meet actual people during those rare moments in a four-year cycle when they happen to intersect with presidential candidates, he perhaps imagined it as rare. This is what life is like.
~snip~
A leader is someone who figures out where the future is going, not someone who joins the party once it's underway. That is why, he added, it is relevant that he opposed the Iraq War when she supported it. And he opposed the Keystone pipeline when she supported it. He could have gone on for a long time with that list: why did she set up a wing of the State Department to spread fracking around the planet, for instance? Why was she against gay marriage for years? But the point is clear. A leader is someone who figures out where the future is going, not someone who joins the party once it's underway. A canny politician, by contrast, is precisely someone who waits until it's safe and then runs up to lead the parade.
If it was a year for canny politicians, then Hillary would be a shoo-in. She's spent decades perfecting that approach.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mckibben/bernie-sanders-town-hall_b_9077552.html
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Mike__M
(1,052 posts)Definitely like gander though. Watch out.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)
valerief
(53,235 posts)the MSM can throw at him. And he refuses to accept their framing.
trueblue2007
(17,194 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)However, to deny that Bernie is a leader is to be willfully ignorant. Look at all the people he has mobilized in a very short time!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)a significant challenge to the heir apparent in an amazingly short time. Bet you were saying that it couldn't be done then. But he has done it without the help of the billionaires money that H. Clinton cherishes. By the way, do you embrace Citizens United now that Clinton is taking advantage of it?
George II
(67,782 posts)....in this campaign?
When Sanders (rarely) shines it's a great debate/forum/rally. When he doesn't, which he didn't last night, it's someone else's fault and part of the conspiracy against his candidacy.
Even the data breach, during which four of his operatives pored over Clinton's voter database for hours and took information, wasn't the fault of the Sanders campaign, it was the DNC and their vendor.
Some day, hopefully sooner rather than later, the Sanders campaign and his supporters will recognize that he's just in over his head.
shawn703
(2,702 posts)When he's nominated at the convention.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)it sure beats the Kool-Ade that the Hillary faithful have been chugging for months! 
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Sanders almost always shines. Hillary makes even MOST democrats cringe. That's a reality whether you accept it or not. Hillary could be the opportunistic politician that runs into lead at the last minute but that would be way too optimistic. She will support some safe issues and force the rigid boot of the status quo back around everyone's necks. Do you realize how many families are in crisis? How many directly due to an unfair justice system as much as economic inequality? If you didn't before you sure are gonna learn now. Whoever motivates the base will win in the end. Only Sanders can beat Trump. Hard to accept maybe but everyone is fed up even if they are blaming the wrong people.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)My neighborhood is under a gang injunction. I would not want to be a teenager growing up under that. The teenaged kiids hang out in areas away from the streets because they don't want to be scooped up just because they are with others their ages.
My husband and I are retired and go for walks. We meet these kids. They all look like great kids to me. I could be wrong. But I do not understand how gang injunctions can really be allowed in what is supposed to be a free country.
Anyway, the unfair justice system is as much of a problem as economic inequality. I tend to forget that when I am writing.
I was so pleased to see that Obama has ended the use of solitary confinement (the SHU) for juveniles in the federal system. We need to see that measure taken across the country in state juvenile detention centers and prisons.
Thanks for your post.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Policing for profit needs to end.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Interesting.
George II
(67,782 posts)....others say.
If you're talking about my comment that she is several steps above Sanders, that was a reference to her well-rounded experience and superior intellect.
840high
(17,196 posts)judging by past mistakes.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Everyone else thinks he did great.
Sorry to pop that bubble for you.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)What? She hasn't??? 
LOL! 
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)to sell you .. water-front, in Florida.
1) The order: Bernie, O'M, then Clinton <-Hills gets the 'last word', and way too many of them with no commercial break, as both Bernie and O'M had.
2) Hillary was the only one who literally got a big huge and a kiss from the Mod. when she entered,
3) Mr Cuomo kept --all night long-- taking not-so-subtle digs at Bernie (that Bernie couldn't respond to) during his questions to other candidates. One more advantage to how the order was stacked to favor Hillary.
4) Mr Cuomo's harping himself (not from the audience) over and over about Bernie being all about 'raising taxes' to bring back 'big government' was ugly, uncalled for, and biased in the extreme.
I'll stop with this incomplete list for now, but I will say this: I give CNN/HRC credit for putting together --on the fly at the very last minute-- a well choreographed mashup of a Kangaroo Court and Hunger Games, designed to appear to be remotely 'unbiased' to the untrained eye.
Fortunately however, Bernie STILL did quite well, Hillary couldn't shut up at the end and bored people to tears, and Iowans are not so naive --on the whole-- to buy into this tawdry charade of a 'forum'.. i still think Bernie's going to win Iowa, despite the Establisment's best effort to sabotage him just before the caucuses.
questionseverything
(9,645 posts)i thought hc's wrap up showed how damaged she is
this was a super friendly crowd for her and still, she was totally bogged down with the on going e mail thing
when have we ever had a candidate with an on going fbi investigation...it just is not done, for the good of the party
her IT guy didn't plead the 5th for no reason (that was never mentioned)
the sex thing was never mentioned but THAT is all we will hear during the general if she wins the nom
another thing that stood out to me is hc's remarks where all ...me,me,me...while bernie is we
just random thoughts
PatrickforO
(14,559 posts)smiled sheepishly and said, "No wonder why they want me to ask this question."
I'm not going so far as to accuse, but it does make me wonder. I don't think Bernie had any pre knowledge of the questions. Did Clinton?
I have a friend who was where he could watch what happened in high places and he said that the Clintons quietly sabotaged Democratic presidential campaigns and the candidates' fundraising efforts because Hillary didn't want to run against an incumbent in 2008.
Maybe, or maybe not. But how many more people died in Bush's bullshit wars? The surge? How many children were burned or had their legs blown off by mines or were blinded? How many more trillions of dollars were wasted?
When my friend told me that, it reminded me of when Nixon sabotaged the Vietnam peace talks until he could be elected in 1968.
If Clinton really did this and there are others who know and are still supporting her, what does this say about our political establishment? About politics as usual?
Nothing good.
But this didn't change my mind. I'm already for Bernie.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Clintons were more about knocking off opponents than they were about winning voters.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)That matches up perfectly with her wanting to be president, not necessarily wanting to be a good leader of the country. It's about the title, not the policy.
.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)time and found her presentation and answers same-old, same-old - me, me me!
cali
(114,904 posts)He's been a force in this process, win or lose and far exceeded pundit and hillarian expectations. He's shaped her campaigning, not the other way around.
Perhaps his success has something to do with her flaws; in particular, her flip flopping and history of dishonesty and evasiveness, not to mention her lack of leadership on such issues as the TPP, Keystone, marriage equality and more.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)If she thought the "all by myself" was worth mentioning, she is unqualified for the presidency.
Because, as Harry Truman once said, the buck stops here, meaning the desk of the president.
A president has to be willing to do a lot of difficult, dangerous stuff "all by myself."
Hillary is not qualified to be president. She, herself, answered that in the negative last night.
And she has no approach much less plan to improve the situation for the middle class, that is the problem of the disparity in wealth and income in the US. That problem is not on her radar because she is rich and hangs out almost totally and only with other rich people.
Bernie, on the other hand, knows the score.
Feel the Bern!
If Hillary is nominated, I will seriously rethink my relationship with the Democratic Party. I like her less and less. I like Bernie more and more.
The problem with the Communists was that they were rigid ideologues.
I'm beginning to understand that today, in America, those who claim they are opposing Communism are the rigid ideologues.
They actually and rigidly oppose America, oppose the fact that we are a country that was built on communities joining together to build their local churches and schools and museums and institutions. And government was the key to making the community's consensus a reality.
Some anti-Communist extremists have gone to such an extreme, rigid, anti-Communist ideology that they cannot accept that, although the words had not been invented, we were founded as a mixed economy, mixed socialist and capitalist. We were founded on the idea that land should be parceled out and not just awarded to someone who was noble and above the lower class people that worked the land. Community, that's the New England and Mid-western tradition that Bernie represents.
I think the problem for a lot of people like the moderator of that forum last night is that they have never lived in the rural areas of the country where people in towns and even cities to some extent, know each other and are used to meeting and talking things over and deciding what to do about, say, where to put a park, where to build a school, etc. That's the way things were done when we were a nation of small towns and tight communities. Bernie understands that that is who we are as a nation underneath it all.
Many on Wall Street and in big cities and certainly in D.C. have forgotten the neighborhoods of small-town and small-city America.
And I have to say that in my neighborhood in Los Angeles, we are a neighborhood. We know each other. We say Hello to everyone when we walk down the street. And we know the people who represent us in local government too -- if we want to.
I remember an election for city council in Los Angeles when both candidates were people I knew, and one of them called me after the election to find out whether I voted for him. Los Angeles is a big city, but we are neighbors and live in neighborhoods. Government is not the enemy when you know people in your government. And that is really what America is about.
I think that Cuomo is a big city boy who just does not understand mainstream America of small towns and even cities with real neighborhoods.
Hillary is a long way from the real America too.
You go to the towns in Iowa, and they aren't like New York City. People know and trust each other in their towns.
I think the Democratic Party is going in the wrong direction at this time. I'm still a registered Democrat and will vote for all Democrats on my ballot except Hillary. But the Democratic Party needs to watch itself. Cuomo's performance last night was alienating to say the least. It was an abuse of the authority he accepted in representing the Democratic Party last night. I am certain that I am not the only one who felt that he allowed himself to be owned by the Hillary interests. What kind of Democrat is he anyway?
In spite of him, Bernie won hands down. He showed that he cares about the American people first and foremost and not about himself.
In contrast, Hillary looked like a spoiled woman who wants to be a queen for the rich and not a president for all of us.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)When she is, maybe.
Oh you meant in some poll!
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)blow a 60 point lead if you are several steps above.
MeNMyVolt
(1,095 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)At a time when the middle class in America is on the verge of collapse, when the cost of day-care in some households exceeds the mother's income, Hillary is reciting her resume of small jobs and volunteer work. Really!!!!
She was so proud of having gone to Alabama "all by myself."
I could not believe that she listed going to Alabama all by herself as one of her achievements and an act that readied her for the presidency.
Hillary is a loser. I doubt that even if elected, she can finish one term in office.
I felt sorry for her. She couldn't answer the question.
Her answer to the question about income inequality was embarrassing -- totally off subject.
And income inequality and how we deal with it is going to determine the future of our country. Most Americans are on a highway to nowhere right now when it comes to their living standard, the job market and the future -- a debt-ridden future if Hillary's friends on Wall Street who count the interest paid on all that personal debt as their income have their way. Hillary is oblivious to all that. She has forgotten Bill's slogan: It's the economy, stupid. It's still the economy, stupid. And Hillary gets a D- on that.
Yes, the social issues are important. I was for gay marriage long before Hillary was. I also support gay rights in the workplace among other places, issues we aren't yet really talking about. I support BLM, and personally went into areas a lot of white people don't go into 'ALL BY MYSELF' and on a daily basis because I do believe that even the poorest and most desperate black lives matter. But this is the first time I every thought about it or wrote or spoke about it in those terms because I never thought of the "all by myself" (a childish phrase if there ever was one) as anything remarkable or worth talking about.
Hillary is a lousy candidate. She is self-centered, egotistical and really not nearly as intelligent as Bernie. She has poor judgment as evidenced by her vote on the Iraq War and her gloating over the death of Ghaddafi (who evil as he was we could control better than we can control what is now going on with ISIS and who kept the extreme Islamists somewhat at bay in Libya and maybe to the extent he had any influence, in Syria). We do not know precisely what role our State Department had in arming ISIS. Maybe we will finally really find out. When we do, I suspect but do not know, that many Hillary supporters will have the shock of their lives.
Bernie was asked hardball questions and answered them with strength. His answers were excellent. He avoided talking about himself and focused on the needs of the American people.
Bernie won the night. We shall see next week. But Bernie won the night.
Feel the Bern!
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)are spot on highlighting that as it does speak volumes. This would be a terrific OP is you felt so inclined.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The momentum is going to carry Sanders over the top. It will be a sad day for those that worship the wealthy.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)of course he's in over his head. He didn't attend Harvard or Yale Law and isn't even a millionaire, for Chrissake! 
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Most people really. Uninterrupted and focused. He did very well indeed. The host challenged him more but even that makes sense outside of nefarious tin foily CT nonsense. He's the most transformational candidate out there, the one promoting the most revolutionary change. That needs more scrutiny than the blander continued evolution stance from Clinton, and he handled that just peachy IMO. Now yes he's my choice, but I'm not as single minded as a lot of folks are. I think both, heck all three but O'Malley's working for the future at this point, would be fine presidents in their own way.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)by Mr Cuomo, who couldn't have been a more transparent supporter of Hillary.
He even piggy-backed jabs at Bernie onto a question to O'Malley. It was pathetic IMHO.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Then expecting Bernie to attack her for it and then try to convince everyone that he could be as good as her.
Funny how the media acts like America still trusts them.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)How much money does he make? He IS the establishment - the ones who would "suffer" from tax increases.
TYT had a good piece on this - saying how for them it's "personal" since Sanders is not for the "powers that be" but for the people - and they take that as a personal attack.
HRC otoh is their best buddy and will cut *their* taxes. So it's all love and kisses.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)
jwirr
(39,215 posts)for there they go and I am their leader.
A leader speaks out about both the situation and the cure. A leader does not have a wind vane and does not flip flop all over the place.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Everyone wants to be Chief but nobody wants to be Brave....
....and the Brave was once a respected member of the Tribe.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)
Thanks, needed that
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)When the Oligarchy wants a candidate, it will choose a candidate that makes them feel safe. They have done so...until...see Title.
It's Oligarchy vs. Revolution/Reformation
Uncle Joe
(58,297 posts)debate, Hillary cited all the enemies that she was most proud of, and rattled off a few but not all of them.
One of the enemies that Hillary cited was Republicans and Cuomo asked her how could she work with them as they were her enemies, Hillary stated that it was largely "tongue in cheek" and she could work with them regardless.
To me Cuomo's question missed the most obvious point that should have been raised in regards to Hillary's 1st debate list of enemies, two of the enemies that Hillary cited were the drug companies and for profit health insurance companies.
My question would have been more tailored to, if these institutions are enemies, why have they contributed so much money to your political campaigns?
Furthermore if her enemies' answer in the first debate was "tongue in cheek" would that include Big Pharma and the for profit health insurance corporations?
Thanks for the thread, 99th_Monkey.
Ino
(3,366 posts)She thought she was being so clever on that answer in the first debate... now she's trying to shrug it off as yet another Hillary joke that fell flat.
I suppose she feels justified in mentioning insurance & pharmaceutical companies as her enemies because of their opposition to her healthcare bill during Bill's term. That doesn't fly any more, Hillary!
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)A tongue in cheek admittance that for a democrat, she sure does do a lot of work for the repugnant-- republicans.
merrily
(45,251 posts)When she said it, she thought it was an applause line for her portion of the audience.
And that debate was not long after this: https://www.google.com/search?q=Hillary+gif+Benghazi+hearings&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA9aG9n8jKAhUW9WMKHSMVDrAQsAQIHw&biw=1252&bih=559
Her other remarks about Republicans and vast right wing conspiracies were not "mostly" tongue in cheek, either.
All your points are good ones.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The odds will be drawn as to how long it will be from the seating of a Republican Congress and the beginning of impeachment proceedings for some lame reason. I predict that right now. Mark my words. It will be a matter of high odds that Hillary will just be a whipping boy for the extreme right and her impeachment a rallying cause for Republicans.
I just do not see a Hillary nomination as good for America.
And the possibility of a Republican in the White House is frightening.
I'm 100% for Bernie. He is our only realistic choice at this time. Hillary is like a magnet for Republican abuse and not without reason.
Her claim that she went to Alabama all by myself was one for the history books. I would bet that no presidential candidate has listed having gone to Alabama all by herself as a qualification for the presidency. Alabama is a state of the Union. Going there by yourself is not anything to mention as a qualification.
merrily
(45,251 posts)whether her policies will help turn the Congress any bluer than it is now. I doubt they will.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)
TryLogic
(1,722 posts)
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...yes, he is -- although the phrase conjures up an interesting picture! 
Reminds me of an old quote from MGM's Samuel Goldwyn, responding to movie criticisms: "It rolls off my back like a duck!" -- which my family found uproariously funny, again due to the image it conjures up.
Sorry just had to share that! 
markpkessinger
(8,392 posts)TryLogic
(1,722 posts)gordyfl
(598 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
kjones
(1,053 posts)Ah yes, Bernie next to two presidents who were deeply ingrained in American wealth
and power...and yet both are tremendous symbols of American Liberalism that
Bernie and his supports exploit non-stop.
Kinda sounds more like a "one of these things does not belong," and an argument
for why wealth, power, and connections don't necessarily make you a "tool of the
1%."
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)No indeed.
But sometimes it's obvious.
kjones
(1,053 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)No, it's easy!
Just look at the record.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)pretty much does make one a tool, though.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)How many of our presidents have NOT been wealthy, or at least wealthier than the vast Hoi Polloi? Wealth and power are inextricably intertwined.
However, the presidents featured in this video have something else in common, something essential: their regard for their fellow citizens, AND their commitment to effect positive change for our country.
I am beginning to suspect that Hi11ary and many of her supporters are tone deaf--somehow the burgeoning support for Senator Sanders seems to have escaped them. I don't know if it's denial, or simply a refusal to see how popular is our Bernie. But, the more attention and support Bernie gets, the more Hi11ary and her supporters push back. Maybe it's fear...
We are witnessing a sea change in our political landscape. It is a timely and astonishing change. Many, MANY people--most of whom have felt completely disenfranchised by the corporate oligarchs--are picking up the gauntlet, and giving their full support to Bernie Sanders. I am one of these many supporters.
And, just in case you are one of those who thinks Bernie's supporters think he's a "pie-in-the-sky, mystical guru promising us kittens and unicorns," please understand that we are CLEAR that the work to be done to recover our democracy will require ALL of us, and we're in it for the long haul.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)more exposure?
gordyfl
(598 posts)Feel free to share it or post it anywhere.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)No, they don't get it. They think those big, bright, clean houses on the commercials are where "everyone" lives. The abysmal failure of the "free press" in this country is appalling.
So no, they don't get why Bernie's message is getting through to people.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Wake up, msm, so is the rest of the country.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)for Hillarians to pile-onto and chortle about.
I love how Bernie owns his anger, "hell yes I'm angry and so are many hard-working Americans
who are working 2-3 jobs and still can't put food on the table .. "
Just like he owns his 'socialism' .. although I think he needs to keep reminding people that his
policies are 100% aligned with FDR, Kenney, LBJ, et. al. and not the Kremlin.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)he's more American socialist and no part Russian socialist; they're still incredibly mired in a Cold War mindset whenever the dirty Red Scare words pop up. It's all kneejerks that they still respond to
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Perhaps the PTB can Red-bait Bernie to death, and bury him that way, but so far he's keeping his
head wall above water, and then some.
As he wins Iowa and NH, and momentum keeps building, I'm not convinced most voters are stupid
enough to fall for mid-1050s cheap cold-war scare tactics. People are wising up very very fast. You
haven't noticed?
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)but I don't expect it to hold. They'll find some other way to sink him; when it becomes apparent red-baiting has stopped working-- thank the goddess the man's not a veteran, otherwise they'd be doing to him what they did to Kerry by now.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)They tried to stir the pot with "He applied for Conscientious Objector status!" As if not wanting to kill anyone in any war was a bad thing. As with so many other attempts to blacken his reputation that one had the flight path of an anvil.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)not that you need the object lesson, but I'm sure several here could use the reminder that warhawks of all color are our enemy; Hillary included.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)
deutsey
(20,166 posts)against socialism in America since the early 20th century, it's not surprising. It's depressing, but not surprising.
Most people today know nothing about the history of working-class struggle in this country, especially since the end of the Civil War, and that's no accident.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I don't think so much.
It's what some Beltway people would like you to believe.
But I don't think it's the big deal they think it is.
Now, if we were taking about Teabaggers....
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Who isn't angry, frustrated and terrified?
Did you see the video of the disabled woman who broke down at his rally?
THAT is why Bernie is angry.
And THAT is why I support him.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Why wouldn't he be? Besides he's explained himself and what he's trying to accomplish plenty.
It's just one of those Gingrich-esque word play schemes to make Sanders seem as unhinged and a Teabagger.
But Sanders is angry.... not mad.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)It says a lot to me when someone isn't angry about what has happened/is happening to our country.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)sarge43
(28,940 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I've seen several posters complaining about Bernie's proposed single payer plan because they have free insurance through their employer and won't personally benefit from it.
I've got mine, Jack, screw the people dying from lack of healthcare!
sarge43
(28,940 posts)Unbelievably short sighted and selfish. None of us 'benefit' if any one of us can't have basic affordable health care.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Imo anyone who doesn't support universal healthcare now instead of later doesn't have the right to call themselves a liberal.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Childish and petty article.
Response to Beacool (Reply #43)
Post removed
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)to not just roll over and accept the oligarchy's chosen paladin? The third way's been the ruination of the party, as far as I'm concerned, and one just needs to look at Clinton's voting record to know it.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)So, anyone who doesn't support Sanders stopped thinking?
It's going to be a sad day for you when you realize how many other people "stopped thinking".
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)"Childish and petty" <-your words to me, to which I was replying.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)There's a difference.........
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)That was not in the article, those were my words and my thoughts, for good reasons.
.. which are summarized in this other post to you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1071047
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)The CNN Democratic Town Hall is being organized by a longtime Iowa Hillary Clinton activist
It's worth noting that the upcoming Democratic Town Hall, in Des Moines, Iowa--is being organized and hosted by the Iowa Democratic Party.
The chairperson of the Iowa Democratic Party is Dr. Andy McGuire. She has been the main source quoted in the articles about this event. McGuire served on the following:
---Hillary Clinton's National Council of Civic Leaders.
---Women's Leadership Council for Team Hillary in Iowa (a group of Iowa women dedicated to electing Hillary Clinton as the first woman President of the United States in 2016.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511040140
http://www.bleedingheartland.com/2015/01/17/three-pros-and-three-cons-of-andy-mcguire-as-iowa-democratic-party-chair-updated/
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)You stopped reading at the end of the Headline...
But assume you know how "childish and petty" it is.
That's pretty childish and petty itself.
I guess like Hillary, you are head and shoulders above us all, and our opinions are not even worth reading. Are you gonna shake some sense into us?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I prefer government of the people, by the people, for the people, because "BETTER government" begs the question, better for who or what? Then again, since Citizens' United, corporations are people, my friend.
Ah, fsck it.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)"I'll believe a corporation is a person when Texas executes one."
Fearless
(18,421 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)It was phenomenal.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I guess the keynote address would have been seen as a unity move.
senz
(11,945 posts)like "big government," which apparently sent Bill Clinton scampering to the right. Bernie is unusual in seeing beyond the meme-level to the actual meaning of words -- and then addressing the meaning itself, thus disarming meme-slingers. He is immune to the noise and nonsense that the media establishment uses to keep us in line.
Unlike much of Washington, Bernie is not intimidated by Republican blackmail. We need this man in the presidency.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)He's been around for awhile, on the floor of Congress, in the public eye, dealing with
the M$M, and he sees the nonsense coming before it's even out of their mouth; then
points to the real issue underlying it, and does so disarmingly & brilliantly.
That's why they still pretty much refuse to have him on M$M very much, choosing
instead to "cover" him quite literally yammering on about how "he still can't win" no
matter what the polls show, no matter how well he does in debates & forums.
Yes!! It was absolutely ridiculous how hungry they were for that clip of Bernie directly saying "I will raise taxes" despite saying health care costs will still go down. It's appalling that they believe Liberal voters are too stupid to actually look at the facts and that they'd be swayed by a two second sound bite. The indirect attacks are so disengenuous it makes me feel as if I'm witnessing Republican tactics.
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)had to be completely unaware of Thom Hartmann's "Brunch with Bernie" Friday segments. Nearly every Friday baring the occasional vote related absence, Bernie would field calls from listeners to Thom's show. As far as I know, no politician in the US does anything similar. It's how I first found out about Bernie back when he was a congressman.
senz
(11,945 posts)He's proven it week after week, for years.
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)9 a.m. here in L.A. I could pick up Thom's show driving to work. That's when I became aware of Bernie and thinking, "Wow, we certainly need more like him." Thom deserves a lot of credit for keeping Bernie in the public arena early on.
K&R
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)They couldn't be any more obvious.
The only way they can win is if they flip the votes via the electronic voting machines.
Gamecock Lefty
(700 posts)Oh good grief. Hillary has yet another stellar presidential performance and you disrespect her by calling it her forum? Really?
Well, I’m glad poor ol Bernie did not melt. If he’s elected President he’ll have to learn how to be tough and handle the pressure when people refuse to shake his hand and then steal his microphone at his own rallies.