The attacks I'm seeing here against Bernie and his message are positively Republican in nature.

[reformist2]

Making fun of Bernie for promising "free stuff"?

Saying that Bernie went "full Mondale" by promising our taxes would go up??

Warning that Bernie will bring socialism to America, and might secretly sympathize with Communism???



Wow. These are all things Republicans used to say about Democrats. I never thought I'd see these kind of attacks on a Democratic website.


For shame, Hillary supporters, for shame.

[farleftlib]

1. And from the very same people

come the holier-than-thou lectures about how rude Sanders supporters are and how we're turning off potential fence sitters. And that Sanders supporters are exactly like the tea-baggers. And about a dozen more ways poor Hillary is getting a bum rap.

The projection is staggering.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

19. Something I have noticed...

... the GOP congress critters have been great at getting nothing much done. I wonder what all their paid for staffers do with their idle time? Point to ponder...

[jalan48]

33. Drink wine, play golf, file their nails?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

73. Post on DU?

[Lorien]

88. Yep. I'm seeing a lot of projection

and cognitive dissonance along with extreme arrogance, which is what we saw with Bush supporters years ago. i keep asking Hillary supporters to explain to me why they prefer her. Is it her ties to Monsanto, Wall Street, Walmart, big Pharma, for profit prisons, love of Fracking and NAFTA, eagerness for a war with Iran? Or is it just her gender, and if so, would they support Palin? (One said they did). The only answers I get are either attacks on Bernie or arrogant quips like "I support her because I have a brain!" I'd like to believe that the issues are important to all Democrats, but perhaps some are as much into the whole team identity thing as many Republicans are, and it's all just a big sports game to them.

[mythology]

99. Perhaps if you stopped asking a question that is the equivalent of

When did you stop beating your wife? you might get an answer. But instead you use it as an accusatory club and oddly people don't like that.

Perhaps this will help:

Why do you support a candidate that is proposing a vastly underfunded health care plan? Why do you support a candidate who's wife nearly drove a university into bankruptcy with legally questionable accounting and took a golden parachute? Why do you support a candidate who expects the votes of people he has called ideologically bankrupt?

You'd no doubt find that question insulting. That's the thing about being a jerk. It doesn't prompt people to respond to you nicely. It prompts them to be a jerk back. But that would require enough self-reflection to realize that you reap what you sow.

[AlbertCat]

111. When did you stop beating your wife?

Let's see...

Why do you prefer Hillary?



When did you stop beating your wife?



Nope. Not the same at all.

[humbled_opinion]

146. No no hold on a sec..

I can see a correlation in those comments, after all Hillary is the victim here, it's not like it was her idea to take hundreds of thousands of dollars from Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street fat cats, it certainly isn't her fault that she has to resort to attacking Bernie's Progressive single payer plan because she didn't embrace it and run on it first, It's also not her fault that she created a personal email server at her home when she was secstate, so why would anyone think that she wasn't honest and trustworthy?

"LEAVE HILLARY ALONE"

LOL her candidacy is starting to enter it's death throes, after Bernie wins Iowa and NH, and Nevada and South Carolina she will fold up her campaign and go away....

[AlbertCat]

154. "LEAVE HILLARY ALONE"

Way back at the beginning of the primaries this summer, The GOP started saying absurd things (not the things you just said however) about Hillary and in the new Hillary Group, they were clutching pearls and rending garments about the meanie GOP and they hoped poor Hillary was alright. I thought Hillary could take it....

I light heartedly posted this:

And was promptly BANNED!

So today I post this:

[green917]

123. I'll take a shot

His health plan is not underfunded and by every metric, according to a number of economists (i believe the number was 47), will save average working class families thousands of dollars while providing health care for EVERY American.

i don't know the veracity of your story about his wife but his wife isn't running, he is.

Because he has a long standing history of actually supporting progressive policies and politicians. If he's questioned the ideological sincerity of members of the party at times, well, i agree with him...congressional democrats voting for conservative policies (ie- fisa court expansion, signing off on extraordinary rendition and water boarding, the vote for the aumf,etc) have done we, their supporters, no favors.

So, i answered your questions...how about you answer the one posited in the op (with specifics mind you): why do you support secretary clinton?

and, i for one, appreciate the opportunity to answer that question in regards to my support for senator sanders. The fact that you think it being asked of you makes the original poster a "jerk" is telling in its own right.

[AlbertCat]

110. a lot of projection and cognitive dissonance along with extreme arrogance

It's just like a religion!

Yikes!

[Broward]

2. The conservatives on this site are revealing themselves.

The masks are finally coming off.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

128. Yes

[hopemountain]

141. yes - i would not be surprised if some of them

are also masquerading as bernites with some of the nasty responses against hillary - all to discredit bernie supporters as being mean and nasty.

it's a typical "rovian" tactic these days to disparage a movement for the very things they represent - adapted to online forums of free speech.

in this case, bernie is known for his integrity and commitment to social justice issues. so, disruptors are sent in to prove otherwise. think back to the peaceful marches for civil rights and the union movement after the depression, hungry people in bread lines. disruptors are sent in acting as though they are in unity with the crowd - then they start shouting epithets to arouse the crowd - or shoot off a weapon, or pull out some other weapon and feign attacking law enforcement. all to discredit the people exercising their right peaceful assembly and free speech to end in violence.

again, disruptors masquerade as members of peaceful revolutionary activities - protests, town halls, forums, marches, etc., to push people around and get the crowd stirred up so they can later show how horrible the peaceful revolutionaries appear while protecting themselves.

what we can do is not allow the disruptors/trolls the space to be nasty by recognizing their intent and ignoring them. they will go away and go somewhere else. there is nothing a troll hates more than to be ignored.

[hrmjustin]

3. So I don't support Sanders, does that mean I am a Republican troll?

[JonLeibowitz]

4. One can support Hillary and not use right wing attacks. That's the point of this OP.

[reformist2]

5. Thank you!

[m-lekktor]

13. no because you never discuss issues

you just howl and whine incessantly about mean Bernie supporters and you play the victim so who knows where you stand on the issues!

[hrmjustin]

16. No because?

[Lorien]

89. Where DO you stand on NAFTA, fracking, Monsanto

for profit prisons, Wall Street corruption, and a war with Iran? Do any of those things matter to you/ How about climate change and a living wage? Or is it all about "the team"?

[Lorien]

92. *Crickets*

as expected.

[VulgarPoet]

106. Or for that matter

Wars started under your candidate's orders in Syria and Libya? The four soldiers killed because she is incompetent enough to ignore clear warnings from people in her staff? The families she lied to in the process? Et cetera, et cetera, could go on about Special Access Program emails but really, I'm kind of sick of the constant rationalizations for why we should accept more of the same.

[hrmjustin]

131. I was against Nafta and ttp. Fracking is a scurge on humanity.

I am all for wall street reform. I am for a 15 dollar minimum wage and against keystone pipline. I am for diplomacy with Iran and prison for profits sounds like a racket to me. I have no opinion on Monsanto.

Good enough?

[bvar22]

133. Just one.

If you are FOR the issues you listed,
WHY are you supporting Hillary?
She OPPOSES you on every single one.

[hrmjustin]

135. Not so.

And I don't think Sanders can or should win.

[bvar22]

138. Lets do a quick rundown.

You said you are:

*against NAFTA and the TPP. Hillary and the Republicans support both. Bernie does not

*for Wall Street Reform. Big topic, but if you are for REAL reform instead of Kabuki non-reform
you wouldn't be supporting the Wall Street candidate. You woulds support the candidate that proposes the re-instatement of an improved Glass-Steagall, and wants to pass a small tax on
high speed trading that will pay for our schools. Hillary opposes these changes.

*Hillary OPPOSES the $15 min wage. She thinks that $12 is enough for the peasants.

*Hillary takes money from the Private Prison Industry, and has never spoken against them. Bernie has.

Do these issues really matter to you?

[hrmjustin]

144. Hillary came out against tpp and she has her own wall street reform bill.

Sometimes you take money from the devil to get elected president.

And yes I care.

There is no way I will support Sanders in the primary.

[bvar22]

147. Those TPP "campaign" denials WILL change to support if she gets in the Oval Office,

just like Obama was going to "immediately re-negotiate NAFTA to protect American jobs".
I guess he forgot, and Hillary will "forget" too.
She helped design, write, and Lobbied for this Deal with the Devil (The TPP).

[hrmjustin]

148. I believe her.

[bvar22]

149. Did you believe Obama when he made those promises?... I did, and haven't forgotten.

Lie to me once, and it will take a LONG time of Truth telling to heal the rift. I will probably never fully believe anyone once they LIE to me, and especially anyone who sends their own daughter out in front of the World to lie for them.


If you can find the Red Queen, you win $20!


Hey, you weren't watching. Watch closer and you are SURE to win THIS time. Just ante up another $20


Aww. Lost again OK. I'll make it easy. The odds are in your favor THIS time, so plop down another $20,
and we will go Double or Nothing. All you have to do is pick the red queen,and win your money back.


Gosh, lost again, but if you believe you are just having a bad day,
try again. Keep believing. We can do this for as long as your money holds out.
Keep Believing.

[hrmjustin]

150. Good bye!

[bvar22]

152. Bye!

Its been fun!

[kath]

93. +1

[JDPriestly]

40. Interesting question. And of course, if someone answers it in the positive, you get their

post removed. And if no one answers it, then that means no one thinks you are a Republican troll.

If you were a Republican troll, which I'm sure you will say you are not, then that's a win/win for you.

If you are not a Republican troll, we will never know really because the only possible answer to your post that can remain on DU is one that says you are not a Republican troll.

So, we will never know whether you are or are not.

Proving a negative is said to be difficult. In this case, just responding in the positive would get the person responding's post removed from DU.

I have no idea whether you are a Republican troll or not. Only you know. But your post is certainly troubling because it can only be answered negatively, but that does not mean that the only correct answer is negative.

Hmmmmmm!

Interesting puzzle. Assuming you are a Republican troll (which as I said, I'm sure you will deny), then how can a person answer your post honestly without getting the answer removed from DU. Very interesting indeed.

Perhaps the answer to the puzzle is to point out the conundrum you place anyone who thinks you are a Republican troll in if they want to answer your post so as to express their honest opinion.

So I will opt and say that I don't know whether you are a Republican troll or not.

Seems like the safest answer. True or false, I do not know.

[hrmjustin]

46. Um ok.

[retrowire]

63. Happy to see you changed your sig to a much more positive message. nt

[Deny and Shred]

124. Lorien gave you the chance to talk issues

Instead, you post an emoji to heckle someone else.

Those issues SHOULD matter to all Democrats.

Your choice to remain silent on issues and condescend instead does not reflect well.

Are you here to discuss issues or are you here to troll. That is now a pertinent question.

Your future response to Lorien's post will reveal the answer.

[OxQQme]

130. The Hillary laugh of avoidance Justin? eom

[LiberalLovinLug]

136. Laugh it up!

Because the future leadership of the country, and where they stand on important issues, is such a laughing matter.

This tactic reminds me of those MSM news network interviews with one more liberal guest and one Republican guest, where, while the liberal guest is speaking about traditional Democratic values being threatened by those the other guest represents, all you see and hear is them laughing..pretending its all a big joke. Its all they got. So just so you know, that's all I and probably many other see when your ilk relies on some overused animated icon to replace any thought out response to a question.

[hrmjustin]

145. What is my ilk?

[Deny and Shred]

153. That's the entry to which you respond?

You obviously refused to respond to issues. Instead, you drop "what is my ilk?"

How do you expect to be taken seriously?

I have read many of your entries over time, especially in the Religion group. I thought you had heartfelt opinions. I thought better of you. This thread has me wondering though. Either step up and answer Lorien, or be a typical one-sided DU simpleton that deserves to be Ignored because you can't put forth a legitimate opinion.

What IS your ilk?

[hrmjustin]

155. Perhaps in between your insults and fake outrage you will notice i responded.

"I thought better of you. This thread has me wondering though"

Honestly it doesn't bother me and i can't say I ghought of you before this post.

[Fairgo]

95. I love that

It's a semantic conundrum, akin to quantum physics, we can call it "Schroedinger's Scat"

[CharlotteVale]

6. They sound like my Republican uncle at Thanksgiving. It's downright freaky.

[maxsolomon]

117. Funny, I've seen attacks on Hillary on DU that I'd expect from Republicans, not Sandernistas

An entire laundry list of attacks on the legacy of Bill Clinton. It read like it was straight from the desk of Richard Mellon Scaife.

Juanita Broderick was brought up, for Christ's sake. It stopped short of repeating the Vince Foster Murder accusations, thankfully.

As a neutral at this point, the shit is being flung from both sides, but the butthurt seems strongest from Sander's partisans.

[hopemountain]

139. those are attacks from republicans

true bernie sanders supporters don't care about bill's infidelities.

running the country is not about christian values. it's about humane values of justice for all - not just the 1%:
jobs;
ending poverty;
ending the mass incarceration in private prisons of a majority of people who are either black, brown, or red;
increasing the middle class and opportunities for the middle class;
more jobs on american soil with products made in the usa and not sent overseas;
saving our younger generations from endless wars perpetuated by the war machines on foreign soil for foreign and corporate interests;
a higher minimum wage;
a greener economy and environmental standards;
tolerance and equal opportunity for all walks of life, and not tolerating bigotry and racism;
health care as a right for all;
a tuition free secondary education;
fortifying our infrastructure and rebuilding or replacing where necessary;
breaking up the big banks, making sure wall street no longer has the power to spiral us into another depression, etc..

and yes, we do care about where hillary stands around the tpp and jobs for the middle class, a living wage, higher taxes for corporations & the 1% - and disrupting true progress for our country by maintaining the status quo.

[stillwaiting]

7. Those are conservative arguments. Period. I don't care if they call themselves liberal.

Or progressive.

They are CONSERVATIVES.

[Bryce Butler]

20. Jury Results

Those are conservative arguments. Period. I don't care if they call themselves liberal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1072742

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Attacking Clinton supporters as conservatives. Attacking the ideas as right wing is fine, but painting a broad stroke and insulting Clinton supporters as Conservatives is going too far.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:59 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Really? Addressing ideas. That's what we do on DU. Whether we agree or not.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not worthy of a hide.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Waste of an alert.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[beam me up scottie]

24. Lot of those 7-0 results lately.

The swarm is slipping.

[INdemo]

37. Between now and Monday it is going to be a hell-of a battle ground

I don't remember 2004 being this bad but then most of the right wing attack dogs were with Bush and Cheney.

[SheilaT]

43. And of course over in Hillary Land

they complain bitterly that DU is stacked with Bernie supporters, so of course the jury results are so unfair!

[Divernan]

87. Could the swarm be a victim of Monsanto/GMC? Nah!

I think of the swarm as genetically modified, Third Way Democrats - not good for children and other living things - just like Monsanto.

http://www.nationofchange.org/2015/04/26/hillary-clinton-hires-former-monsanto-lobbyist-to-run-her-campaign/

Hillary Clinton Hires Former Monsanto Lobbyist to Run Her Campaign

Hillary Clinton recently announced that she will be appointing long-time Monsanto lobbyist Jerry Crawford as adviser to her “Ready for Hillary” super PAC.

Crawford has mostly worked with Democratic politicians in the past, but has also put his support behind Republican candidates as well. Anyone who was willing to support Monsanto’s goals would receive support from Crawford.

In 2014, Clinton was paid to speak at the Biotechnology Industry Organization where she openly expressed her support for GMO crops.

In her speech, she said that “I stand in favor of using seeds and products that have a proven track record….And to continue to try to make the case for those who are skeptical that they may not know what they’re eating already. The question of genetically modified food or hybrids has gone on for many many years. And there is again a big gap between what the facts are and what perceptions are.”

[amborin]

9. I don't watch Chris Matthews but he is attacking Bernie

my husband has the program on and Matthews is rabidly angry and
attacking Rep. Bamberg; ghastly to see

[dorkzilla]

18. This from the guy who said Bush gave him a thrill up his leg

This should surprise no one.

Tweety is a dickhead, to put it bluntly.

[BlueStateLib]

44. The MSNBC host, who infamously said that one of Barack Obama's campaign speeches sent a "thrill up h

The MSNBC host, who infamously said that one of Barack Obama's campaign speeches sent a "thrill up his leg

[dorkzilla]

47. You're correct. He just gushed over Bush in his flight suit

With his Mission Accomplished BS:

Chris Matthews on MSNBC called Bush a “hero” and boomed, “He won the war. He was an effective commander. Everybody recognizes that, I believe, except a few critics.” He added: “Women like a guy who’s president. Check it out. The women like this war. I think we like having a hero as our president. It’s simple."

http://www.thenation.com/article/ten-years-ago-bush-declared-mission-accomplished-and-media-swooned/

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

22. I saw that too. He was a major asshole.

[PatrickforO]

41. Not surprising. Matthews is an American exceptionalist,

and VERY MUCH a member of the establishment. So it's not exactly hardball unless you're Bernie.

[JDPriestly]

45. Sanders must be doing well, better than we know, in Iowa.

First they ignore you . . . .

Tweety is one of those least aware of the deep anger in the country. He probably doesn't even shine his own shoes any more.

He is a real loss.

But he stays on and on and on endlessly on MSNBC because he toes the line of the big bosses while pretending to be liberal. What a clown.

Ah for the good old days when Ed Schultz was on MSNBC and had Bernie as a guest.

If you want to do something good for America, drop your cable subscription. It's not worth it.

You can only watch one program at a time. You can get a ROKU box or hook up a cable to your TV, subscribe to a service that has the shows you like and avoid paying for Fox News and the rest of the right-wing propaganda machine. It saves you money and it works very well.

[litlbilly]

53. I dumped direct tv 1 year ago, wow, happy happy happy i did that.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

72. Me, too!

Just this week I dropped DirectTV. One month at $89.00?? I don't think so. So many other ways to spend that money. Or not.

[litlbilly]

78. It was over 100 for me. I have my tv connected to a laptop and it is just great.

[politicaljunkie41910]

125. He deserved it. The guy just endorsed Bernie and has no idea what's in his

platform. What an idiot. As a black woman, I was embarrassed for him. The fact that he's a SC lawmaker and is endorsing a candidate whose platform he knows nothing about is disheartening. For the record, he had just endorsed Clinton a couple of weeks ago. Obviously this guy's endorsement is for sale to highest bidder, thou I don't know who would care that that he's Travon Martin's Mother's lawyer.

[retrowire]

10. totally agree. nt

[world wide wally]

11. I see this from both sides and it is very disheartening

We will end up blowing this election to some clown ass Republican

[INdemo]

54. I dont think so but the Clinotn Campaign would not be this agressive and have

all these right wing attack dogs out there if Bernie and Hillary were tied or if Bernie was only 1 point ahead...His lead (as someone said earlier) must be much larger and thus the attacks..
The Hillary operatives have seemed to turn the heat up her on DU too.

CNN MSNBC are all using these little tid bits against Bernie and taking his statements out of context.
Does that sound like a dead even race....
So then what happens with Hillary she takes off for a fund raiser and flips the Iowa voters the bird....

Go Bernie !!!

[Arugula Latte]

12. Yes. And people who want fair wages, single payer healthcare, and affordable higher education

are loony left "extremists."

Also, because we're not falling in line with what DWS and the DNC are trying to shove down our throats it is a case of mutiny! Yes, that word was used.

[Voice for Peace]

14. She has set the tone, her official people who speak on her behalf.

I don't see critical thinking in that campaign, only a bag of tricks. Like her hilarious defense of the rapist. A lifetime of practicing the art of distorting truth for personal gain.

[TimeToGo]

15. DU is in serious trouble

We are eating our own. Neither side has any of right to act aggrieved or to point fingers.

Both are at fault.

That's what is shameful.

[Proserpina]

29. NO, both are not at fault, as a few months' exposure will reveal...

Take your own advice, if you can't stand the heat.

[TimeToGo]

74. Oh Please

[JDPriestly]

48. The DNC has pulled trick after trick to try to push the nomination toward Hillary.

Yet she does not speak to ANY of the issues that are troubling ordinary people, especially seniors and young people in our country.

She does not have a viable or progressive platform. She is a conservative pretending to be a liberal.

We want Bernie. The DNC wants Hillary. Let the people speak without being discouraged by the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the inept and incapable Democrats in the House and Senate.

TPP is going to be the last straw for Democrats. We do not want it. It will ruin our economy and deeply divide our country. But Hillary -- her "objections" to the TPP are shallow and will dissolve into thin air the minute she is able to click her fingers and declare that all her doubts have been assuaged and she is backing that horrible trade agreement.

NAFTA has ruined the American economy. And on top of it just to insure the impoverishment of ordinary Americans, Bill Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the so-called "reform" of the commodity futures market.

To top off the devastation the Clintons have brought to our country, Hillary voted for the Iraq War Resolution and then, as Secretary of State, played a role in fostering turmoil in Libya and Syria.

Getting rid of Gaddhaffi and fighting Assad sound like good ideas until you, as Bernie did in Iraq, ask what will happen once they are gone. Hillary is not far-sighted or visionary enough to be president.

All her past little jobs do not equal wisdom. Bernie has the experience and the wisdom.

Hillary was elected twice and has no wisdom whatsoever.

We do not like being told how to vote and what to think by the DNC. They are trying to throw the election for Hillary. She is not qualified to be president.

[amborin]

67. She's not qualified

And, speaking of Gaddhaffi and Assad....she's a total warmongering neocon. She pushed Obama to topple Gaddhaffi. For his billions in sovereign funds? And urged Obama to topple Assad. The NY Times had a good Sunday article saying what we all know: Saudi Arabia has been using the US as its mercenary in the ME to topple Shiite leaders and strengthen its power in the region. SA funds and promotes Wahhabism and terrorism and we are complicit.

[AlbertCat]

112. She's not qualified

I keep seeing things like:

"She's the most qualified candidate we've ever had!"

Which is absurd. The only office she's ever been elected to was NY Senator. First Lady and SoS were handed to her. Has she done anything stellar in any of these positions? I mean, she's not a complete incompetent, but is she just the greatest? I don't think so. Her Healthcare Plan in the 90s, she lost the last primary..... she's just not so invincible and amazing. It's like Oprah or something. Just what is so great?

There are starry eyed idealists on both sides, but I think many more on Hillary's. It stems from that initial "it's her turn" attitude, I think. Sanders is not perfect. But he has goals worth reaching for and maybe even attaining! Clinton (even sounds old fashion..... so 20th century!) really is the "No We Can't" candidate. Really.... "let's just tread water for another 4 years" is the feeling I get from her. Her supporters are like cultists sometimes.

In the most realistic grounded bare sense, Sanders can certainly do no worse than Clinton, and most likely better. There is not an irrational hatred and long list of baggage associated with Sanders. I think he has a better chance of working with conservatives. His goals are ambitious but just reaching for them will make things better.

[Lorien]

90. The powerful never let go of the reins of power willingly

they'll fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo and continue their consolidation of wealth at the very top while bleeding the rest of us dry. It will get uglier, there's no doubt about that!

[sibelian]

107. Hmmmm.... Berniebros... Camp Weathervane...

If you look closely there's a rather revealing difference between those two terms...

[sibelian]

108. I don't think it's just DU.

I think it's everywhere.

[sadoldgirl]

17. They are trying to defend until the end

what the DLC and the New Democrats did to the party.
The issues are not important, because they see this
primary as a war. Thus: "Everything is fair......."

[Duval]

32. I'm afraid you are correct.

[INdemo]

49. The surpirsing issue about the Democratic Party and what Ed Rendell said was

"no one is going to tear apart what the Clinton organization started 24 or 25 years ago&quot or even 30years ).The DLC is gone but it has merged with the DNC.
So when a DNC leader and a former DNC leader challenge the voters and challenge all Democratic Progressive voters and
say "if you try and break up our Corporatist Party and our Corporate Bond we have with the owners of our Party we will run an Independent Billionaire against you if that is what it will take to keep our bond intact with Corporate America and Wall ST".
And there are Democrats or people that call themselves Democrats out there yelling "Hell ya."


What strikes me as funny is I watched some of the interview with a Clinton senior advisor and she was talking about all of Hillary's programs she is offering and again giving her web site address to find out details knowing there are no details but talking about all the great things she will do....And it was the same script she used just a few days earlier.

[JDPriestly]

57. Hillary's got nothing. She is clueless.

With regard to the economy, her solution is growth. But we have had growth and almost all of it went to the richest of the richest in our country.

So growth is not an answer to the economic survival of average Americans.

Hillary is oblivious to this fact.

She doesn't listen to Bernie.

Fact is she would have been smart to simply agree with Bernie on everything. Because Bernie is right on everything and she has these trumped up, artificially concocted statements that pass in her mind as policy ideas, and she needs help arriving at and expressing real policies.

Bernie blindsided everyone by running strictly on the issues.

Hillary doesn't know how to campaign on the issues. Her ideas on the issues are flimsy and not worth much.

Fell the Bern!

Bernie is the best candidate ever.

[INdemo]

62. Hillary Clinton and her campaign was not expecting this fight

Bill has already admitted that.
Hillary thought she would coast right into the nomination and all that money would be used to coast into the White House.
I don't think their ground game is that great because it was put together in a huge panic and they were certainly not
expecting Bernie Sanders to raise so much money so fast..

So Bernie Sanders campaign has caught everyone off guard even the corporate media.



Go Bernie !!!!

[salib]

21. Of course. No one running can effectively argue against him from the left.

So, it has to be from the right. And, unless really subtle, it will just reflect right wing talking points.

[RoccoR5955]

23. They have a lot of nerve

calling themselves Liberals, Progressives, even Democrats!
They are DINOs!

[VulgarPoet]

25. AFAIC, if this primary goes south

(And note my use the Spartan "if" here) then they can have the term democrat. To me, democrats were people I was supposed to believe could change things. If all they're good for is toeing the line and maintaining the status quo, then it's time for me to find a new party to align with, along with the knowledge that I won't see anything else that matters to me about this nation change in my lifetime.

[MissDeeds]

115. Perhaps one of the most egregious things I've seen here

is poster claiming to be a Bernie supporter while putting up post after post criticizing Bernie and pumping up Hillary. I guess he/she assumed we'd be too stupid to notice.

[pnwmom]

26. Why is it an insult to compare him to Walter Mondale, who was a solid progressive,

and -- unlike Reagan -- honest about the need to raise taxes?

I loved Mondale and McGovern. Unfortunately, these great men and true progressives both lost 49 states to one.

[Ed Suspicious]

56. So when you say he is going full mondale you're cheering

his leadership? You really think we're stupid.


I'm never going to forget this week. It really burns.

[pnwmom]

65. I didn't say that. But the person who said that has good reasons. Bernie,

unlike many of his supporters, lived through the candidacies of Walter Mondale and George McGovern, true progressives who lost 49 states apiece.

That's when most Democrats -- but not Bernie -- learned the bitter lesson that the American public doesn't respond to campaigns based on higher taxes for the middle class, no matter what benefits are promised.

[Dawson Leery]

27. Right wing attacks are here, Kos, andthe young jerks which have gone

full Arkansas Project against Hillary.

For shame, Bernie supporters, for shame.

[liberalnarb]

55. The Young Jerks? REALLY? WOW!

[AlbertCat]

113. full Arkansas Project against Hillary.

They accused her of murder?

Do post that clip!

[redstateblues]

28. So anybody that doesn't buy Bernies pie in the sky proposals

Is a Republican? You guys are looking foolish and sounding like freepers. Your intolerance of those who disagree with you is very undemocratic as a matter of fact

[retrowire]

66. Try reading the OP again.

It said the comments about Bernie are Republican in nature. Nowhere did it say if you disagree with Bernie, you're a Republican.

Wow.

[Jim Lane]

71. You survived an alert, but not because people agreed with you.

I was Juror #4 and my comment serves as my reply to your post.


On Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:43 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

So anybody that doesn't buy Bernies pie in the sky proposals
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1073079

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling Bernie Supporters freepers? The OP never said that people who disagree with Bernie are republicans. This insult is out of line.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:59 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Did not call Sanders supporters freepers. The alerter said, 'Sounds like' which is a fair accusation if your comments are similar to said group. There has been a lot of outrageous claims and accusations made, this one doesn't even rise to being out of bounds during non-primary season.
Try arguing against the assertion made by the poster instead of running to the alert button

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think this wins the prize for the stupidest post that I've ever voted to leave alone. Clinton supporters have indeed made Republicanesque attacks on Sanders (and have also exhibited an astonishing intolerance of people who disagree with them, astonishing considering they're so sure that Clinton will be the nominee and will therefore want our help in November). I also agree with retrowire's response to the alerted post. Nevertheless, I don't quite see a personal attack. The alerted post says that Sanders supporters are sounding like freepers, which is open to the reasonable interpretation that it's an attack on their comments rather than an attack on them personally (rather than outright calling them freepers as the alerter charges). My jury philosophy is to leave it alone if there's *a* reasonable interpretation under which it squeaks through.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing outside TOS. Use Reply instead of Alert.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. They have no shame.

[kennetha]

31. These are lightweight attacks

If Bernie is the nominee, he will be eviscerated by the Republicans. He desperately needs to toughen up his arguments. So you should regard any friendly incoming fire as more of a proving ground. It's actually doing him a favor to subject his ideas and arguments to rigorous scrutiny and extreme stress testing in the primaries, rather than waiting until the general election.

[taught_me_patience]

34. Krugman and Klein have brought up the same criticisms of Bernie's proposals

They are unrealistically flawed. AND they have no shot of passing.

When Bernie proposes an 8% tax to pay for medicare for all, while Germany pays the equivalent of 15%.. then, yeah.. I'm going to criticize it like Krugman and Klein. When you propose free college because it benefits society, but only the rich pay for it. Then you are proposing free pizza. How about this for a liberal values... everybody benefits, so every contributes.

[INdemo]

35. When a candidate has wanted to be President for 40 years or more than that

candidate will do or say anything to achieve that 40 year old goal.
I'm not so sure if Hillary's campaign is a 2nd try for the Democratic nomination or her 2nd try for a Third Term for President.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

36. I like both candidates, but their most verbose supporters are a turnoff

[NanceGreggs]

38. "I never thought I'd see these kind of attacks on a Democratic website."

I never thought I'd see Obama called a piece-of-shit used car salesman, a Manchurian candidate, a Trojan Horse, a corporatist sell-out, Republican-lite, a shill for the 1%, a water-carrier for the GOP, etc. - and yet all of those things, and worse, have been posted here.

I never thought I'd see Planned Parenthood targeted for being part of the dreaded "establishment", or see a civil rights icon like John Lewis thrown under the bus because he had the gall to endorse a candidate other than Bernie.

In fact, I never thought I'd see every Democrat, every group, every organization, every union who has chosen to support HRC rather than Bernie thrown under that same bus - and yet it's now a daily occurrence here.

There isn't a "Republican in nature" attack that has not been leveled against Democrats on this site - even to the point of posting articles and/or statements from RW authors, bloggers, and publications to make the point.

So if you're suddenly appalled by Republican talking points being used against Democrats on DU, you've apparently missed the boat that sailed a very long time ago.

[world wide wally]

59. Perhaps the worst part is the way so many DUers feel that the way to support someone is

to tear down the other one.
Gee, guess who this works out for come the GE.

[PatrickforO]

39. 'Full Mondale' LOL

Say, what's THAT?

Why, it's a giant RAT!

/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20140222231856

I wonder what it will try to do to Bernie?

[Lancero]

42. Essentially, we're just getting a rehash of the attacks that were flung at Obama circa 08.

[Thor_MN]

50. Hey, peole were complaining that Sanders wasn't getting any attention...

Now that he is getting attention and you want to blame it on Clinton supporters?

You are way behind the curve...

This is what Clinton has been getting for years...

[noiretextatique]

51. New Democrats are basically Republicons

Who are cool with gay people, less uptight about weed, and slightly less hyocritica about religion. I replied to an absurd criticism of Sanders' stance on reparations yesterday. The poster claimed that was a deal-breaker for him I guess I forgot when Clinton (or any other presidential candidate, including, Obama, supported reparations. I mean really.

[oberliner]

52. Would you say that there are also attacks against Hilary that are Republican in nature?

It seems like it goes both ways. Would you agree?

[litlbilly]

60. NO

[rpannier]

83. Short. To the point

Meaningless reply

Considering people have been bringing up Whitewater, Vince Foster, etc
Those are pretty Republican talking points

[litlbilly]

84. Again, that blabber gets you on the ignore list. bye:)

[rpannier]

85. Oh. I'm so hurt

Return to your bubble and have a nice day

[maxsolomon]

127. I would agree

slinging about "corporatist", "corrupt", "hawk", "warmonger", & attacking Bill Clinton's presidency as no different than a Republican Administration.

Its very off-putting for someone trying to get enthused about voting for a 75 year old.

[mac2766]

58. I say screw'em... er.. uh...

I mean ignore'em.

Bernie WILL win the primaries, and will easily win the general election. He will be our next president.

It's hard to be a loser. People sometimes lose. We can't all get a trophy or blue ribbon. Someone has to lose in the primary... and again in the general.

There are sore losers among us. It's as simple as that.

[forest444]

61. I wish more voters were aware of this from 1984:

[TIME TO PANIC]

64. I think a few of these Clinton supporters are really republican trolls trying to create division.

[forest444]

68. I wouldn't put it past them.

I'd be especially suspicious if, should Bernie in fact win, we start seeing a lot of Hillary supporters openly call on fellow Democrats to stay home.

[TIME TO PANIC]

69. Like the PUMA's back in 08'. n/t

[forest444]

70. Remind me, please: who were the PUMAS again?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

75. Hillary supporters (stereotypically women) who HATED Obama as a result of the campaign....

They were willing to vote Republican to keep him out of the White House.

P.U.M.A. = Party Unity My Ass.

[forest444]

79. Aha! Thank you, Spitfire.

I suspect history might repeat itself this year.

[TIME TO PANIC]

76. People United Means Action.

They were fanatical Hillary supporters who refused to vote for Obama in the GE.

[forest444]

80. How quickly I forget. Thank you, TPT.

Spitfire informed me that in some quarters, it also meant 'Party Unity My Ass'.

Hmm. They might be singing the same tune this year.

[Lorien]

91. Agreed

There are far too many commonalities for that not to be the case.

[MadDAsHell]

100. If DUers are allowing trolls to create division, they should probably move on from DU.

Allowing trolls to manipulate you to anger, desperation, etc. is a sure sign you lack the maturity to spend time on online political message boards.

[Lil Missy]

77. You think that's bad, you should see the treatment HRC gets. n/t

[valerief]

81. Amazing, isn't it? I was recently called "you people." Now, if that isn't Republican, I don't know

what is.

[ucrdem]

82. A campaign getting TLC from AmericanCrossroads is not in a position to point fingers.

[Beacool]

94. Well, if that's not the pot calling the kettle..........

Ahhh, this place has no sense of irony. After the vicious posts against Hillary, many using RW talking points and links, you're upset about what some of Hillary's supporters have posted?

Wow.......

[betsuni]

96. Yes, and then when people object to RW talking points and links

and vicious insults about Hillary personally (not policy) they are scolded as being too thin-skinned and to get out of the kitchen if it's too hot and so on. Talk about an irony deficiency.

[JTFrog]

104. Exactly.

Every right wing nook and cranny has been cleared in hopes of finding something to stick to Hillary and derail her campaign.

She's already won those fights.

[Beacool]

116. Exactly.

Yesterday, there was an OP about whether anyone wanted Bill back in the WH. It's the same crap one can read on any RW site. At this point, I just read GDP for the laughs.

[Bobbie Jo]

105. Mob behavior is facinating, no?

because that's all I have left to describe this nonsense.

[StevieM]

156. Threads like this one are just plain bizarre to me.

Most of the bashing on this site has been Hillary-bashing by Sanders supporters. It has been relentless. I can't remember too many threads that attacked Sanders or O'Malley, let alone attacked them viciously.

I've also heard a lot about how Hillary was the inevitable nominee--always from Sanders supporters when belittling her. I can't remember one single post by a Clinton supporter--or comment by Clinton herself--that ever suggested that she saw herself that way or that we saw her that way.

[Scruffy1]

97. A lot of Hillary supporters are very good people and of course some of them go overboard.

Besides which, electoral politics is not for the tin skinned.

[LWolf]

98. Neo-liberals

are elephants in donkey skin.

[JTFrog]

101. LOL.

Bernie supporters are going to whine about attacks that are Republican in nature? After dragging out every fucking Republican attack on the Clintons to DU, INCLUDING VINCE FOSTER? That takes some serious chutzpah.

What a joke.

[onecaliberal]

102. No question. Pathetic

[EdwardBernays]

103. Are you surprised

A campaign run by the owner of one of the biggest corporate lobbying firms in DC is acting "Republican" .


Gotsta pay da bills after all.

[Kermitt Gribble]

109. Yes they are.

It's shameful. I always thought supporting Party or personality over principal was mostly a republican trait - I was wrong.

[Highway61]

114. Best thing to do is ignore those posts

A lot of those people with "strong" ties absolutely have their minds made up. They are not willing to listen to reason or compromise and have this strong urge to win at all costs. Me? The truth usually prevails in the end. In the interim, put them in the rear view mirror and don't let anyone live rent free in your head. That's what they want.

[blackspade]

118. That is some classy shit there....

[treestar]

119. If you really think Bernie is going to win the nomination

he needs to get used to them and learn to handle them, so what's the problem?

[Vinca]

120. I agree. I noticed some of the posters doing it have low number counts,

so chances are they really are Republicans.

[Go Vols]

121. Republican you say

Obama said he would be to the right of Reagan, and Hillary touts herself as Obama 3.0,not surprising.

[MariaThinks]

122. honestly, the attacks against Hillary could be coming from ted cruz

I don't know what you're seeing. I've moved my position from strong Hillary, weak Bernie to strong Hillary, strong Bernie.

I've read shit on here criticizing the way she dresses, the way she talks, how she moves her arms - the hatred towards her from so-called progessives is chilling. I have to wonder where it's coming from? And what the motive is?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

126. I'll give you 1.33 out of 3. So not terribly impressive.

Yes, presenting "free stuff" as negative is a standard Republican framing. No argument here.

No, comparing Sanders to Mondale is entirely legitimate (although he's a lot further left than Mondale was). And the very substantial middle-class tax rises that would be needed to pay for his health-care "plan" are one of the reasons he'd be very unlikely to win an election, so it's entirely legitimate to highlight them.

And mostly no, there's nothing underhanded about pointing out that a man who's spent the last however many years running for office as a socialist might well try to bring socialism to America if elected, which is another reason he'd be very unlikely indeed to win an election. But it is dishonest to suggest that he might sympathise with communism, so part marks here.

[Ivan Kaputski]

129. "sympathize with Communism" like being on the board of Wall-mart...

while they were dumping US goods for communist China goods?

[cui bono]

132. Yup. Been seeing all of those for a while now.

Disgusting. And they have the gall to ask for loyalty oaths.

.

[840high]

134. One Hillary supported called Bernie

a "crusty old Jew" - thank God action was taken.

[SoapBox]

137. +1000

Yes...agree.

Sorry I missed this yesterday.

[condoleeza]

140. Straight out of House of Cards - nt

[Bill USA]

142. you should come up with your own material. BS supporters are indestinquishable from GOP anti-HRCs

I mad that statement in Oct 2015 (not that it was so clever. anybody could see it) - and BS supporters had it hidden. BS supporters have as much toleration for differing opinions as the Ayatollah Komenei.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=652629

[Enthusiast]

143. K&R! This post received hundreds of recommendations!

Single payer should be the goal of every Democratic candidate for office. The Democratic Party rank and file overwhelmingly support single payer. The wishes of the people should come first.

[Todays_Illusion]

151. And Hillary's campaign looks like Karl Rove is running it. nt

[DJ13]

157. A great many of us here predicted our party was to be infiltrated by moderate Repubs due to Bush

The Bush administration caused a huge rift in the GOP, forcing conservatives interested in political power to become Democrats to avoid the stigma Bush/Cheney left behind in their wake.

Its a situation that the DLC/Third Way was created to take advantage of.