NEEDS TO BE SEEN AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN TIL IT SINKS IN

[BigBearJohn]

[senz]

1. Nice bit of media criticism from TYT. Always a good thing.

Thanks, BigBearJohn!

[Hortensis]

2. Lies are bad. Information is good.

Most of what are being CALLED attacks on Bernie are just normal attempts to evaluate the viability of Bernie's positions and electability. Both raise a lot of questions that need to be asked. He's running for president against a pack of neofascist-leaning right-wing extremists.

Take a look at Hillary's issues site in comparison!
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Details, details, details. Her campaign also has in-depth handouts on her issues for analysts who want more info. And the math they're based on stands up to scrutiny. It took a lot of work, but her campaign answered the questions Bernie's being asked up front.

Bernie needs to do that too. Then there'll be fewer "attacks."

[ejbr]

4. Yet

what is unfortunate about Hillary's detailed plans is that she is the one entrusted to enact them. Just like the young man at the Iowa Town Hall states, there are many people who believe (to the core of their souls, I might add) that she is dishonest and will not pursue anything for the benefit of the masses. At least not with the urgency and integrity of Bernie. This is presently her conundrum.

[Hortensis]

5. Hillary is a woman. Voters believe women are more

trustworthy. Therefore, the right wing has spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars spreading the propaganda that Hillary is dishonest and untrustworthy.

Many, many, many other politicians, in fact MOST, are more dishonest than she. Many are incredibly dishonest, corrupt scoundrels. Hillary's among the cleanest politicians in Washington. We know that because of the scrutiny she's undergone.

No other politician's record has been mined the way hers has for the smallest detail that could be described, exaggerated, distorted, flat lied about for years in many thousands of articles, posts, and broadcasts. It's all been examined, and when nothing was found it was invented and spewed.

You might ask yourself why. Why her, the only one of all of them? Why have her enemies tried so hard -- and failed! -- to destroy this one person? What are they afraid of?

Simple: It's because they are afraid she'll take away what they want and give you what you want. Oh, yes -- and also just because she's a woman running for POTUS, and "they're" almost entirely men.

[ejbr]

8. Our concerns

do not stem from the right, no matter how much you may convince yourself. They come from her own mouth (sniper fire, gold standard TPP), as well as her own pockets (Goldman Sachs, for-profit prisons). If you think the left takes their lead from the right, you are mistaken.

[Hortensis]

9. Who do you think fed you that stuff?

As for taking a lead from conservatives, people here mine right-wing sites every day for ammunition to use against Hillary, truth not required, only that it satisfy their peculiar needs.

[eridani]

11. Wingers, like Clinton, lived the Iraq war

They also love banksters and frackers.

[Hortensis]

14. Now HIllary's a winger?

I'm afraid if she was up to her neck in a lot of that, so was Bernie. The war resolution was important, but it was the ONLY war legislation he didn't go along with.

BTW, I was one of VERY few people I knew who didn't go along with, or enthusiastically endorse, the war. I opposed it completely from 2 days after the announcement on.

I also know damned well that most of the older Bernie folk here at very least went along with the war then. The popular mood on the left was anywhere from go-along to support, and on the right support to major flag-waving nationalism.

The national hypocrisy on this subject, now that involvement in that enormous betrayal of our ideals is...personally embarrassing, is outstanding.

[farleftlib]

15. No, just no

I also know damned well that most of the older Bernie folk here at very least went along with the war then.

I'm an older Bernie supporter and I call BS on that. Nobody I know in my age group, whether a Bernie or Hillary supporter, went along with the Iraq war. You don't speak for me or "most of older Bernie folk."

[Hortensis]

16. Hmmm! Many here claim everyone they talk with

supports Bernie. There seems to be a pattern here.

I've never lived such an extremely narrow life, without associating with different opinions among family, neighbors, people at work, and so on, but apparently here and there some do.

[farleftlib]

17. You're the one making huge claims

that you know most older Bernie supporters were pro-war.

You know no such thing. The claim is ridiculous. Period.

[eridani]

19. She votes with them way too often

The popular mood on the left was overwhelmingly against the war, as hundreds of millions all around the world demonstrated on Feb 15, 2003. The only war to generate opposition on all seven continents, including Antarctica, before it even started.

[Hortensis]

22. I'm talking about right here in the warmongering U.S.

We've made war almost continuously since we (a national "we&quot elected Reagan. That is because we have allowed it -- there has been no popular mood on either side "overwhelmingly against" war, any of them, since Vietnam (and that was because of the draft combined with many, many thousands of American deaths).

Happily for war profiteers, advances in technology have allowed us to war without a draft since, and as we know, with less than half of 1% of us in active military service, these days most Americans prefer to pay little to no attention at all to our warring.

Exposure to the news for a significant block of us averages about 3 minutes of TV per day, no reading, and another block watches effectively none. "If it bleeds it leads" refers to murders and gory accidents at home, not war deaths, which are usually carefully not mentioned.

And, unfortunately, all this also describes too many on the left, large numbers of whom may say they deplore war but can't be bothered to vote.

I'll also point out that, in addition to those who are true principled progressives, much of the Bernie phenomenon is a POPULIST event. Populists are people who irresponsibly ignore civic problems for decades while things get bad for others, only very belatedly becoming agitated when they themselves have been hurting for some while and finally start getting scared for their own futures. Then they get angry and start looking for someone to blame.

That should "overwhelmingly" be the GOP, of course. However, with considerable help from right-wing propaganda campaigns, populists in all camps have instead designated the Democrats, and most specifically Hillary, as the witches to go after.

[VulgarPoet]

12. .

On TPP, if Conde Nast can be considered right-wing, well that tells me Clinton supporters live in some bizarro America. On her neocon warhawkishness? One just needs to look at her voting record. And we're supposed to believe she can be Commander in Chief? How many lives has she, and all of the neoliberal conspirators in the democratic party thrown away on pointless interventionism?

But hey, that's none of my business. When corporations still run roughshod over us when she gains the presidency, when corporations claim extranationality and people are dying in the streets thanks to Shkreli-esque price gouging-- I'll just be laughing and saying "I told you so". When we're at war again and someone actually sacks up and hits something of ours, I'll still be saying "I told you so".

I don't trust anyone with the presidency who hasn't held prior military service, but I'll take Bernie miles over Clinton. Better a pacifist Democratic Socialist than the warhawk, cluster bomb supporting face of the "Third Way".

Every damn day of the week.

[ejbr]

18. Um

I told you who fed me that stuff; am I to believe you or my lying eyes? It's as if you think there is a contingent on the left who does not want a female president. Believe when I tell you I really, really want one; but I also have to trust she'll look out for my economic interests along with the plutocrats who just happen to fund her. Of this, one cannot be sure given her past decisions of the Iraq War and ties to Wall Street.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

23. "among the cleanest politicians in Washington", who may/may not be indicted for a federal crime.

[CorporatistNation]

6. COMPLETE NONSESNSE! BERNIE IS THE ONLY TRUTH TELLER AND ONLY CANDIDATE TO BE TRUSTED!

KICK THE SHIT OUT OF THIS POST BIGTIME!!!

[Cal33]

24. I think they didn't take into consideration that if we adopted the Sanders plan, the savings

from the health insurance, would more than compensate for the increase in income taxes on
the average middle-class person by far.

Now, I'm not talking about the rich. They are supposed to be paying more taxes under the
Sanders plan than they have been getting away with so far. They can easily afford it. No
sweat on them, except for their greed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511084879

[liberal N proud]

3. You are only going to toruture yourself

[bklyncowgirl]

7. This was bound to happen. I've seen it many times over the years. I hope Bernie's ready for it.

Last edited Fri Jan 29, 2016, 09:16 AM - Edit history (1)

An unconventional antiestablishment candidate rises up to threaten the party's chosen candidate. The party regulars and the so called liberal media unite to bring the upstart down. It can get ugly. How ugly? Read "Primary Colors" which was loosely based on Bill Clinton's 1988 primary. The reality, in which the anti-establishment candidate Jerry Brown was smeared in a whisper campaign which made him snap during an interview something like "You want to know if I date girls? Would you like names and phone numbers", wrapped Al Sharpton and Gore Vidal around his neck thereby losing him the crucial Jewish vote in New York and eventually had a couple of anonymous California state troopers talking on TV about the former governor's tolerance of drug use among his rock star pals and citing a particularly lurid story of Brown going home after a fundraiser with Linda Ronstadt and how they found some roaches (as in spent joints) in a soda can on a bedside table.

Then there was the Dean Scream and the attacks which led up to it. The party establishment aided and abetted by the mainstream media who hate even the faintest whiff of liberal populism

Finally, the Clinton organization unleashed a fearsome round of attacks on Barak Obama. Perhaps because they did not want to be seen attacking a black man the rest of the party held back or perhaps Obama had already indicated that he was willing to play ball with the powers that be, so while the media played the attacks, Rev. Wright, etc.

I'm assuming that Sanders and his people know this history and are ready for it. Sanders has the double burden of being an enemy of the real powers that be, the plutocrats who like things as they are and have no intention of allowing a self-proclaimed socialist from Vermont from disrupting the gravy train and maybe throwing some of them in jail.

[farleftlib]

13. What she said

The more traction Bernie gets, the more vitriolic and demeaning the opposition gets. It's sad that the party establishment is just as vicious as the so-called liberal media. We the people, and our interests, are of no importance to the oligarchs. The farce of these primaries tells you everything you need to know.

Thanks, BBJ for posting that video. Must-see TV.

[The Wizard]

10. Follow the money

The corporate media thrives on political ads as in TV ads that normal people turn off with heir remote controls.
Howard Dean was the first to seize the political power of the Internet and the corporate establishment, led by Dick Gebhart, dismantled support for Dean.
Then in 08, Obama ran a 21st Century campaign while Hillary reverted to the 1990s model of collecting millions from corporate donors that demand a payback for their "donations" (really bribes) so as to buy TV time, completely discounting the Internet and TV remote.
So now we have Bernie Sanders with a realistic agenda that would make life more tenable for the vast majority, and the corporate shills who stand to profit the most from the status quo say it's unreasonable to make the system more fair.
The deliberate dumbing down fostered by Reagan is reaping unwarranted gains for the wealthy elites, all paid for by the cheap labor of the American working class.
Is there class warfare? Yes there is, and the wealthy elites have made the rules and change them as they see fit.

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. K & effing R! The CORRUPT corporate owned MSM is NOT Liberal. LIBERAL media left this country

When the CORRUPT corporations bought our airwaves.
I think it's two Corrupt RIGHT WING CHRISTIAN companies that now own all of our Radio stations...I think that's what Norman Goldman said ...TWO RIGHT WING COMPANIES!

Right Wingers own our newspapers and all of our TeeVee "News" networks. Liberal media left when Clear Channel and Rupert Murdoch moved in with Faux News, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Savage, Breitbart, Drudge, Coulter and THEIR ILK.

Liberal media, my ass.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[ChisolmTrailDem]

21. K&R! Every one who has stabbed Bernie in the back needs to see what they're supporting. nt