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BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 03:50 PM Jan 2016

"How many times does Bernie Sanders have to get caught cheating before we admit there’s a problem?"

When the Bernie Sanders campaign improperly accessed Hillary Clinton’s private data last month, we all gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was an isolated incident. After all, Bernie Sanders has been Mr. Integrity for decades. But since that time, he and his campaign have been caught doing one dishonest thing after another. And now two prominent liberal groups have each accused Bernie of cheating in the past two days alone. We must now admit that his campaign has gone off the rails, and that the democrats have a crisis at hand.

Yesterday the League of Conservation Voters accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of improperly using its logo on fundraising mailers after the group had endorsed his rival Hillary Clinton. Today the Nevada Culinary Union accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of disguising its staffers as if they were union members so they could campaign in restricted areas. These are serious liberal groups, and these are serious accusations that can’t be ignored.

On their own, they each could be written off as mere happenstance. But put them together, in light of the data breach no less, and it starts to spell out a pattern. Throw in Bernie’s dishonest lawsuit against the DNC to try to turn his own scandal into a phony conspiracy so he could fundraise on it, his sudden attacks on Bill Clinton, his comparison of Hillary Clinton to Dick Cheney, and his verbal attack on Planned Parenthood simply because it failed to endorse him, and suddenly we realized the past month has amounted to an undeniable pattern of dishonesty and outright cheating on the part of Bernie Sanders. So what now?

Many democrats and liberals, even some who plan to vote for Clinton, have said that they fear calling out Sanders for his consistently unethical behavior over the past month because they don’t want to muddy the waters for him on the small chance that he ends up being the party’s nominee. Super Tuesday polling has already made clear that he won’t be the nominee. But even that aside, it appears that Bernie is counting on our unwillingness to talk about his behavior. If we want it to stop, we’re going to have to call him out on it before he goes further off the rails.


http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/how-many-times-does-bernie-sanders-have-to-get-caught-cheating-before-we-admit-theres-a-problem/23693/
139 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"How many times does Bernie Sanders have to get caught cheating before we admit there’s a problem?" (Original Post) BainsBane Jan 2016 OP
Another dishonest hit piece from Hillary shill Bill Palmer, what a shock. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #1
"How many times do conservadems need to try to smear Bernie's integrity before it sticks?" tk2kewl Jan 2016 #9
"smear" BainsBane Jan 2016 #16
rationalize... another nice word tk2kewl Jan 2016 #23
The health care plan isn't based on solid math mythology Jan 2016 #75
I refer you to this excellent op tk2kewl Jan 2016 #77
All you have to do is look at similar systems in other countries AgingAmerican Jan 2016 #90
Hello There... EFFING NONSENSE... BULLSHIT DISTRACTION.. 100% BS! CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #89
Where is the influence? BainsBane Jan 2016 #94
Bravo!!! lunamagica Jan 2016 #109
Excellent analysis and discussion. Thank you very much for the huge dose of reality. George II Jan 2016 #110
A must read pandr32 Jan 2016 #112
more proof they are simply anti-Hillary treestar Jan 2016 #113
Excellent points. okasha Jan 2016 #117
Holy cow! That was epic! Excellent post Bains. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #118
BOOM! Squinch Jan 2016 #119
Holy Shit ismnotwasm Jan 2016 #120
If I had ten thumbs, BB.. NastyRiffraff Jan 2016 #126
What's hilarious is that it's coming from supporters of one of the most dishonest campaigners ever. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #22
the tactic might work on uniformed people, but that isn't how this campaign is going down tk2kewl Jan 2016 #25
Her 3am call commercial, refusal to state that Obama wasn't a muslim, the gun mailer... beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #27
It clearly IS working on uninformed people. frylock Jan 2016 #61
Not sure they're uniformed. Likely pushing misinformation on behalf of their preferred candidate. tk2kewl Jan 2016 #63
They're not uniformed Matariki Jan 2016 #69
Feel free to refute BainsBane Jan 2016 #131
Refute what? frylock Jan 2016 #132
All the false claims you insist BainsBane Jan 2016 #133
I'm supposed to prove that Bernie isn't cheating without any evidence being provided that he is? frylock Jan 2016 #134
Everything above has been covered in the press, and the BainsBane Jan 2016 #138
I haven't seen ANY proof that an AARP logo was misappropriated.. frylock Jan 2016 #139
A candidate with a history of sleazy campaigning is trying make Bernie look sleazy. winter is coming Jan 2016 #37
Yep, they've got master Ratfucker Brock doing their dirty work. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #41
The Democrat's Turd Blossom. frylock Jan 2016 #62
exactly... the irony hopemountain Jan 2016 #79
When they resort to red baiting and attacking Bernie on his strengths you know they're desperate. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #100
"Manufactured outrage" BainsBane Jan 2016 #82
She didn't run a racist campaign in 2008? Let's get in the Way Back Machine and have another look: beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #97
Sounds like Bill Palmer is Hillary's H.A. Goodman (n/t) thesquanderer Jan 2016 #108
OH MY GOD! The Sanders' campaign tried to paint Sanders in a good light! mhatrw Jan 2016 #125
Let's shoot for.... daleanime Jan 2016 #2
Um, it's pretty clear that these actions were not sanctioned by Bernie, so calling it JudyM Jan 2016 #3
Mailers from his campaign? BainsBane Jan 2016 #6
Do you have a link to the mailers? bunnies Jan 2016 #12
I see, so that's the new tact is it? BainsBane Jan 2016 #24
asking a question is a "tact" now? bunnies Jan 2016 #36
"Tack." The reference is to a ship's tacking to turn its course toward the wind at an angle. tblue37 Jan 2016 #136
Here is the link you requested BainsBane Jan 2016 #48
The mailing accurately notes a fact, his 95% rating. It doesn't claim endorsement. JudyM Jan 2016 #50
Using an organization's logo implies a connection that in this case does not exist. Naughty naughty. Hekate Jan 2016 #51
Kind of like Hillary and DWS TheFarS1de Jan 2016 #85
Thank you. bunnies Jan 2016 #56
How were they delivered? winter is coming Jan 2016 #116
No control over a campaign can be a problem Bjornsdotter Jan 2016 #13
Looks like Newsweek had fewer scruples about those off-the-record tips. n/t winter is coming Jan 2016 #30
Let's not be gentle with the words: it's a lie, and the OP knows it's a lie n/t arcane1 Jan 2016 #46
Once. elias49 Jan 2016 #4
Cheating like using sock puppets? n/t whatchamacallit Jan 2016 #5
+1 AtomicKitten Jan 2016 #34
Oh, well-played! winter is coming Jan 2016 #39
I think some literall put the same weight behind the two. NCTraveler Jan 2016 #43
Just a little ethical irony n/t whatchamacallit Jan 2016 #45
It certainly discredits the OP, bvar22 Jan 2016 #49
. arcane1 Jan 2016 #47
Exactly. 99Forever Jan 2016 #99
THANK YOU!!! beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #101
Well, no. Nothing like that, actually. Orrex Jan 2016 #115
Lying smears from the campaign of lying, cheating and calumny cali Jan 2016 #7
Cali, what there is a lie? BainsBane Jan 2016 #10
Not only did they piss off the union, but with their "union" buttons they accessed.... George II Jan 2016 #20
Major Nevada union, Sanders campaign resolve dispute polly7 Jan 2016 #55
The data breach was in no way his fault and it cali Jan 2016 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author NCTraveler Jan 2016 #44
We should demand answers... Orsino Jan 2016 #8
Once Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #11
ADD this---another deception from nytimes... riversedge Jan 2016 #14
The quote is accurate Bjornsdotter Jan 2016 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2016 #15
Posting this "for informational purposes only"...? closeupready Jan 2016 #17
I'm not so naive as to think information BainsBane Jan 2016 #18
They do matter, particularly facts of the matter as to voting record. closeupready Jan 2016 #33
Bernie has run the most honest and classy campaign I've ever witnessed. bobbobbins01 Jan 2016 #19
answer: more than HRH elehhhhna Jan 2016 #21
That's exactly what I was thinking. djean111 Jan 2016 #31
What a joke. Clinton operative smears Bernie... surprised?? Fearless Jan 2016 #29
Is this the mailer that doesn't have a recipient address? Scootaloo Jan 2016 #32
Exactly. When you blew up that image someone brought here there was polly7 Jan 2016 #54
I'm thinking the reason there's no room for a recipient address is because winter is coming Jan 2016 #123
By reading the envelope BainsBane Jan 2016 #66
Why would there be a postage-paid mark on the mailer, if it's in an envelope? Scootaloo Jan 2016 #70
Both organizations released statements about the mailers BainsBane Jan 2016 #83
That they did. Scootaloo Jan 2016 #88
You don't like LCV would have verified the mailer before issuing the statement? BainsBane Jan 2016 #92
I have no idea if they would or not. Scootaloo Jan 2016 #93
Bernie Sanders didn't do any of this. highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #35
Good piece. Thanks for posting it Bains. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #38
She also accused Obama of cheating in '08 which makes this redux effort twice as funny. AtomicKitten Jan 2016 #40
Off the top of my head I would say... Once for every Top Secret email found to have passed... cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #42
Bill Palmer certainly puts it all out there, doesn't he? NurseJackie Jan 2016 #52
I think people have far more to fear nichomachus Jan 2016 #57
That's a very optimistic way of looking at things! :-) Hillary certainly is a fighter! NurseJackie Jan 2016 #58
"Many democrats and liberals..." Scootaloo Jan 2016 #73
Yawn. mhatrw Jan 2016 #53
Good question. yardwork Jan 2016 #59
Comedy gold! frylock Jan 2016 #60
Thank you for posting this, BB. Cha Jan 2016 #64
Oh, get my salts!!! elias49 Jan 2016 #98
Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #65
LOL, you guys are still talking about the non story with the Culinary union that got resolved? jfern Jan 2016 #67
Despicable IGNORE - nt KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #68
I must say, as a life long David Bowie fan, heartbroken from his death, it's a gut punch myrna minx Jan 2016 #71
DU rec...nt SidDithers Jan 2016 #72
LOL liberalnarb Jan 2016 #74
These same accusations fell flat in 2008. Same playbook, different election --> same result. AtomicKitten Jan 2016 #76
For some reason I reminded of the Benghazi attacks against Hillary. nt ohnoyoudidnt Jan 2016 #78
Oh, I'm at least gonna let him catch up to Hillary. I doubt he could ever live long enough. nt silvershadow Jan 2016 #80
There is a pattern Gothmog Jan 2016 #81
There they are. 37 of 'em. Ron Green Jan 2016 #84
I think a lot of them are busy doing GOTV in Iowa BainsBane Jan 2016 #87
THEYRE BUSIN' EM IN FROM A DIFFERENT STATE, I TELL YA! Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #95
Let's see...if all else fails, we could actually talk about the issues. jonestonesusa Jan 2016 #86
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #96
Some posters would rather go on about how awful Bernie's supporters are. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #102
K&R ismnotwasm Jan 2016 #91
More conservadem BS Jenny_92808 Jan 2016 #103
What's the phrase that means attacking a candidate on his strengths? Swiftboating. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #104
yes. so feeble. hopemountain Jan 2016 #135
Once. Still waiting. nt elias49 Jan 2016 #105
Spreading Ever More FUD - So Predictable cantbeserious Jan 2016 #106
Oh please, spare me this crap. n/t CanonRay Jan 2016 #107
How many times will Hillary change her positions before her supporters admit there's a problem? hobbit709 Jan 2016 #111
His reps on TV are so lowbrow, he has to know R B Garr Jan 2016 #114
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Orrex Jan 2016 #121
Thanks! That is truly an unbelievable explanation R B Garr Jan 2016 #122
Seriously? Bobbie Jo Jan 2016 #130
Thanks for your concern. GoneOffShore Jan 2016 #124
K&R Number23 Jan 2016 #127
The Daily News Bin? Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #128
Oh FFS are the Hillary fans getting silly. nt Logical Jan 2016 #129
Op and follow analysis was excellent!! Sheepshank Jan 2016 #137

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
1. Another dishonest hit piece from Hillary shill Bill Palmer, what a shock.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 03:52 PM
Jan 2016
Bernie’s dishonest lawsuit against the DNC to try to turn his own scandal into a phony conspiracy so he could fundraise on it, his sudden attacks on Bill Clinton, his comparison of Hillary Clinton to Dick Cheney, and his verbal attack on Planned Parenthood simply because it failed to endorse him


Dude sounds totally impartial.



 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
9. "How many times do conservadems need to try to smear Bernie's integrity before it sticks?"
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:00 PM
Jan 2016


logos, lunchrooms, really?

fake accusations about bringing in ineligible voters?

there's no comparison with the wholesale influence peddling of the Clintons

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
16. "smear"
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:10 PM
Jan 2016

Meaning daring to talk about events that have already been established.

"Influence peddling"? Meaningly drawing on relationships developed through decades of years in politics? That is what politics is. The spectacle of speeches may make for good entertainment, but they do nothing to improve the lives of human beings. In Flint, Clinton used her "influence peddling" to do something about the problem. Bernie didn't bother to even contact the mayor but instead announced the governor should resign. One had an impact on people's lives; the other didn't.

Sanders has been in DC for 25 years. He's had plenty of opportunity to develop productive relationships that could result in said "influence peddling." He hasn't bothered.

Clinton does the stuff people like me don't. She remembers everyone's names. Sends notes of condolences, asks about their families, nurtures relationships. That is her "influence." It's developed through decades of one to one contact with real human beings. http://bluenationreview.com/i-was-a-hillary-hater-until-i-read-her-emails/

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
23. rationalize... another nice word
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:20 PM
Jan 2016

smear =
-stating he will bring in ineligible voters
-red baiting
-making a big fuss over minor actions of his volunteers
-calling his health car and tax plans unworkable even when they are in the tradition of what were once know as Democratic Party principals

influence peddling =
-getting paid large sums of money to speak privately to the rich and powerful and not disclosing the nature of those speeches never mind their transcripts
-funneling government contracts to companies that contribute to your foundation
-selling fracking to the world

but i think you understood where i was coming from

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
75. The health care plan isn't based on solid math
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 10:03 PM
Jan 2016

In fact it's based on incorrect math, hence the prescription drug savings that was more than is spent on prescription drugs. That's kind of a big fundamental underlying problem. You can say it's within the Democratic Party's principles, but it's not funded to last. That's a problem for me.

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
89. Hello There... EFFING NONSENSE... BULLSHIT DISTRACTION.. 100% BS!
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:04 AM
Jan 2016

HILLBILL MACHINE IN DISARRAY GOING TUBULAR!

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
94. Where is the influence?
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 05:29 AM
Jan 2016

Like the $800 billion to Lockheed-Martin or immunity for gun corporations? That sort of influence?

No, accepting donations for a charity, a charity that works on climate change and global health, as well as empowering girls and women around the world. A charity that is chartered in the US, subject to IRS law and US government oversight. Not even chartered in the Caribbean where it's financial dealings can't be taxed or overseen by the IRS.

"Minor actions of volunteers." Impersonating union workers. Illegally using logos in mailings. Who cares? Now reportedly, supposedly (yet we still haven't seen a quote) making a statement about bused in caucusers, now that is far more egregious. She should really be poking around in his computer files instead, harvesting data, so that suddenly people in Iowa never before contacted by the campaign start getting phone calls. Instead, someone said the campaign said something. That is truly an outrage.

Please tell me when Single Payer was one known as a Democratic principle. I know a bit about US history and I know of no such Democratic Party. Please, enlighten me.

And really, how dare anyone talk about how a Tea Party House will go from a veto-proof majority to overturn Obamacare to passing single payer all cause of Bernie. Worry about the constitutional limitations of the presidency? That truly is unethical. Far better to promise a health plan to voters that the candidate himself declared a non-starter in 2009, with a Democratic majority in both houses.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance
Promising what he himself knows won't happen, that takes real integrity. And then floating a plan where even the summary page has inconsistent figures for cost. But Clinton talks about math. That is so un-Democratic. How dare anyone expect Bernie to account for what his proposals might actually cost? Questioning a man so clearly superior to all other human beings is the height of corruption. The public must be encouraged to refrain from critical thinking, to accept unquestioningly.

A real Democrat would count on the public being uninformed about the legislative process and campaign finance law, boast he doesn't "have super pacs" while benefiting from millions of dollars in dark money spending. Pretend it's all about his "integrity" rather than a system that he himself benefits hugely from. Promise to overturn Citizens United once elected, or that his SCOTUS appointments will promise to overturn it as one of their first decisions, counting on voters having little understanding of how the court works. Or proudly proclaiming he will sponsor "new gun legislation" when the regulations in his proposal are already in effect. Those might just be mistakes, results of poor knowledge of legislation or how SCOTUS works if we were dealing with someone like Rick Perry, but this is a man who has been in DC 25 years and does not appear to be stupid at all.

Hey, you want to do away with fracking, I appoint you to go to ND and Oklahoma and tell those workers they are now unemployed. Then you can gear up for more war in the oil nations to compensate for the oil that isn't coming out the ground in the US. Then you can secure the funding for additional military spending. But hey, Lockheed might get another $800 billion out of it. It's easy to say fracking is bad. When you have to consider the repercussions of what that means for real people's jobs (only blue color workers, not anyone who actually counts) and our involvement in the oil regions, it gets tougher. But keep the issues one-dimensional so they fit on bumper stickers. Why think about broader implications when you sell something simple to voters?

Clinton's lacks integrity because--according to you--she challenges her opponent's proposals, critiques their viability; that she fails to indulge the suspension of thought crucial to the Sanders campaign makes her corrupt. And the press actually is staring to report on Sanders inconsistencies and campaign maneuvers, which is all indicative of Clinton's lack of integrity. If she were truly honest, she would insist the press not publish anything but adoration of Bernie.

Red baiting. You want a man who claims to be a socialist in America, and who will run against the GOP, and you're complaining about red baiting? Get a fucking grip. Clearly you and your candidate are not ready for prime time. Better go curl up under the covers because you don't want to see what would happen if Bernie faced a general election, when you face a GOP that doesn't give a shit what self-entitled "progressives" think. A GOP that takes no prisoners and is currently spending millions to try to get Bernie as their opponent in the general election. We need a candidate who can take them on, and all y'alls complaints only serve to emphasize the fact that it is not Bernie. If he is anywhere as weak as his supporters treat him, he isn't up to the task.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
109. Bravo!!!
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:00 AM
Jan 2016


They claim they want to discuss issues, but when a post full of issues hits them, what do we get?

*Crickets chirping*

But what can they do? How to argue with the truth, presented in such formidable way?

BainsBane, this deserves to be an op, and to have its own thread.

pandr32

(11,578 posts)
112. A must read
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:49 AM
Jan 2016

Aside from pointing out many governing and policy truths that go over like lead balloons in the virtual halls of the discussion boards and comment sections while Bernie is running for the Democratic nomination, you have managed to also point out something that should be alarming--this:
"The public must be encouraged to refrain from critical thinking, to accept unquestioningly."
This is not what democracy is about. We are all looking for equal representation and for our voice (each of us) to matter. What exactly is it that those affected by the social contagion of the Bernie campaign hoping for? That Bernie will suddenly listen to them all? He has never been much of a listener, and has a long-time reputation for sticking to exactly the same message and that has been twisted into a good thing because he is "authentic." For the first time he has had a taste of political power and now is talking about a "revolution"--the same, unchanged guy that said Daniel Ortega was "impressive" and tried to see Fidel Castro, but was rebuffed.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
113. more proof they are simply anti-Hillary
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:57 AM
Jan 2016

and not even pro Bernie. They don't hold Bernie to these standards. Why isn't he corrupt for his gun votes?

okasha

(11,573 posts)
117. Excellent points.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:08 PM
Jan 2016

Unfortunately, you're addressing folks who break out in hives when presented with facts.

They deal with problems by denying they exist, not addressing them.

 

MeNMyVolt

(1,095 posts)
118. Holy cow! That was epic! Excellent post Bains.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 02:34 PM
Jan 2016

I feel like bookmarking it for times when I need to get my juices running again.

Thank you!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
22. What's hilarious is that it's coming from supporters of one of the most dishonest campaigners ever.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:20 PM
Jan 2016

Do they think we forgot all about her racist 2008 campaign?

The daily display of manufactured outrage is quite a show.


 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
25. the tactic might work on uniformed people, but that isn't how this campaign is going down
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:23 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie supporters are informed and on the ground informing others. People who are inclined to support Bernie only become more so inclined in the face of these absurdities.

And, no, I haven't forgotten that Hillary was the candidate of hard working white people.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
27. Her 3am call commercial, refusal to state that Obama wasn't a muslim, the gun mailer...
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:25 PM
Jan 2016

It's quite a resume.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
61. It clearly IS working on uninformed people.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 06:51 PM
Jan 2016

You see it everyday around here. The same uninformed people posting the same uninformed bullshit.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
63. Not sure they're uniformed. Likely pushing misinformation on behalf of their preferred candidate.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 06:55 PM
Jan 2016

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
138. Everything above has been covered in the press, and the
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:49 AM
Jan 2016

Advocacy organizations themselves denounced the behavior, as did the union.

Your point was not that Clinton supporters lack faith, daring to question someone you believe should have no scrutiny. Instead, you insisted we were uninformed. Clearly you cannot support that point since your objection has nothing to do with information and everything to do with your view that Sanders should not be questioned. It in fact turns out you are the one who chooses to remain uninformed about the events above.

The latest, as covered by Politico and other news outlets, is that he has disseminated a list of foreign policy advisors, some of whom don't even know him and others who had a single conversation with him a year or more ago. That particular move is to my knowledge entirely unprecedented in political history. Naturally that will be excused as well because: Bernie.

At least we now know how it was possible for him to declare that Iran and Saudi Arabia should be made to fight ISIS together. I am not a US Senator and far from an expert on foreign policy, but even I know those two countries have extremely tense relations. You'll have to forgive me if I want a president who knows the difference between Sunni and Shia.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
139. I haven't seen ANY proof that an AARP logo was misappropriated..
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:12 PM
Jan 2016

and one grainy, low-res photo of an envelope with an LCV logo where the addressee's name and address would typically go. So sorry, I don't believe that shit ever happened. As for stolen data, where are the charges? Surely, there are pending criminal charges regarding the alleged theft of this data, no? The only people clinging to this nonsense are increasingly nervous Hillary supporters. This isn't even on the radar.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
37. A candidate with a history of sleazy campaigning is trying make Bernie look sleazy.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:35 PM
Jan 2016

Hmm. Instead of assuming that a guy who's campaigned on the up-and-up for decades has suddenly changed shortly before an important caucus, I'm betting my money on "ratfucking from known sleazy campaigner".

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
79. exactly... the irony
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 10:35 PM
Jan 2016

another example of rovian smoke and mirrors and manufactured accusations targeting bernie's integrity - the very value which hillary lacks and her comrades cannot tolerate.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
82. "Manufactured outrage"
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 12:39 AM
Jan 2016

Last edited Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Why should anyone care about any of the problems listed above? I mean, we are talking about Bernie after all, not a mere mortal. How can anyone suggest that Bernie isn't entitled to do anything he wants?

If Clinton is so racist, why is she supported by the overwhelming percentage of voters of color? Why do Sanders rallies in diverse areas like S Carolina and the Twin Cities draw overwhelmingly white crowds? So much so that a few black folks who enter end up being racially profiled as potential disruptors? http://www.citypages.com/news/racial-profiling-alleged-at-bernie-sanders-rally-in-st-paul-8000955

Yet a number of Sanders supporters would have us believe that it is white people who are oppressed by having to endure speech that talks about how people of color have been profiled.




You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:23 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.


RACIAL PROFILING ALLEGED AT BERNIE SANDERS RALLY IN ST. PAUL
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511086919

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

the caps alone, not just the racist crap makes this op unacceptable.


Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert is a clear attempt to silence anyone critical of Sanders. Censorship is not becoming on a Democratic board. Please leave it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: To quote Airplane! "Surely you can't be serious
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerting over all caps certainly takes the cake! The OP is sourced and anyone can challenge if they wish, but there is nothing hide worth in the OP.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251587673#post173
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=563036
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22beam+me+up+scottie%22+%22race+baiting%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl#q=+%22beam+me+up+scottie%22+%22race+baiting%22+site:democraticunderground.com

I've seen enough of your comments about "race baiting" to know better than to take lessons from you on what constitutes racism. For that, I prefer to listen to what people of color have to say on the subject.

Somehow, most voters of color don't share your take on racism: they don't believe that they are racist for daring to talk about racial profiling or racist behavior by whites. Amazingly, they don't think affluent white men, members of the political elite, to be more oppressed that the subaltern. Go figure.

I disagree in the strongest possible terms that black folks engage in "race baiting" by discussing profiling against them or racist murders. I do not share the view that the most racially oppressed people in America are white, particularly affluent white men with political power seeking to acquire yet more power.

I actually think the racism that matters is that directed toward people of color and that includes efforts to silence them and accuse of them of "race baiting," or accusing white people who actually give a shit about diversity of "race baiting." The function of such rhetoric is to enforce white control over public discourse, to ensure that matters of diversity and actual racism toward people of color is attacked as illegitimate subjects of discussion because it makes the white people uncomfortable, or perhaps simply because it fails to advance the career of one man. Then of course there is the use of the alert system to purge the site of anyone who fails to fall in line behind the dominant cultural expectation that race cannot be discussed unless it is to attack Clinton and people of color, or to highlight the horrible oppression of white people at the hands of uppity black folk who dare to assert their rights, talk about racist killings, or racial profiling.

Meanwhile, the Sanders campaign's strategy for victory is to focus on states with low voter turnout in order to get around the influence of voters of color.



http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/bernie-sanders-iowa-obama-playbook-218137


As much as you think it hateful to talk about the importance of voters of color in the Democratic Party, I do not. I think their influence important, and seeking to get around it or censor all discussion of it is intended to nullify that influence in favor of greater influence by whites, and white men in particular. African American voters have become aware of their voting power and intend to use it, as they well should. That is not racist; it is smart. It is how they will compel politicians to address their concerns, concerns that matter, regardless of how determined some are to silence it through insults like "race baiting."

I was an Obama supporter in 2008, though I made my mind up only shortly before Super Tuesday when I caucused. I was considering other candidates but not Clinton because of my opposition to the war. I remember finding some in 2008, especially by Bill Clinton, to be highly offensive. They were unacceptable, but Hillary has since made great efforts to mend bridges with African American communities, and she has by and large succeeded.

2008, however, does not nullify or excuse what is going on now in 2016. Too many Sanders supporters have demonstrated deeply conservative values by insisting leftist activists like BLM need to be deferential to a member of the political elite. That reveals a profound bias against people's movements--at least movements by people of color--in favor of a man in power. There is little that can be more reactionary. Some of those attacks have taken overt racial tones, through racist insults, etc. Others may simply invoke racist tropes in order to advance Bernie's career, just as they invoke sexism, but ultimately the effect of both approaches is the same. Evidently they feel the goal of "taking America back" (a phrase that carries multiple meanings) justifies any and everything. In the process, they expose precisely who they are.



beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
97. She didn't run a racist campaign in 2008? Let's get in the Way Back Machine and have another look:
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:06 AM
Jan 2016

First let's clear something up, once again you're putting words in people's mouths, I didn't say she was a racist - you did. I said she ran a racist campaign and I'm not the only one who noticed even if you didn't:

Clinton aides claim Obama photo wasn't intended as a smear
Ewen MacAskill in Washington
Monday 25 February 2008



Barack Obama, right, is dressed as a Somali elder by Sheikh Mahmed Hassan, left, during his visit to Wajir in northeastern Kenya, near the borders with Somalia and Ethiopia

Barack Obama's campaign team today accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim.

Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election". Obama has had to spend much of the campaign stressing he is a Christian not a Muslim and did not study at a madrassa.

Aides for Mrs Clinton, who is fighting a last-ditch battle to keep her hopes of the White House alive, initially tried to brush off the furore, but later denied having anything to do with the distribution of the picture. "I just want to make it very clear that we were not aware of it, the campaign didn't sanction it and don't know anything about it," Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson told reporters. "None of us have seen the email in question."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclinton


Obama Trounces Clintons’ Racist, Entitled S.C. Campaign
Posted: January 27, 2008
Matthew Rothschild

The trouncing that Hillary Clinton got in South Carolina proved that the racist and entitled campaign that the Clintons ran there backfired.

The Clinton campaign kept saying, “He’s black, black, black,” as author and South Carolina activist Kevin Alexander Gray pointed out on Jesse Jackson’s “Keep Hope Alive” program Sunday morning. And Bill Clinton used coded language, like the “old okie-dokie,” which served to remind whites of Obama’s blackness, Gray added. That's like saying don’t fall for the old “shuck and jive.”

And speaking of “shuck and jive,” that’s exactly the phrase Andrew Cuomo used to disparage Obama in New Hampshire, saying he can’t use that “shuck and jive” at press conferences.

Obama’s black, get it.

Or Bob Kerrey, another Clinton supporter, saying, “I like the fact that his name is Barack Hussein Obama, and that his father was a Muslim,” and that he went to school in a madrassa, as Bob Herbert noted in The New York Times. Kerrey later apologized, Herbert added, as did Andrew Young, for saying, “Bill is every bit as black as Barack. He’s probably gone with more black women than Barack.”

Or take Bill Clinton's ludicrous comment that Hillary is "stronger than Nelson Mandela." (The not-so-subtle dig being that she's not only stronger than that black man Obama, she's stronger than the strongest black man on the face of the Earth.)

To say nothing of the nonsense about Clinton being the first black President, which Obama was forced to address in the CNN debate, and which Bill Clinton seems to revel in.

(Racist tactics are nothing new for Bill Clinton. After he all, he used the “Sister Souljah” comment to wink at the white base in 1992, and he made a point to hustle back to Arkansas during that campaign just so he could execute a mentally retarded black man named Rickie Ray Rector.)

And sure enough, after the embarrassing loss, the Clinton campaign tried to dismiss the results by stressing the black vote that Obama got and by mentioning that Jesse Jackson had won South Carolina in 1988, as well.

http://progressive.org/news/2008/01/5995/obama-trounces-clintons%E2%80%99-racist-entitled-sc-campaign


Hillary Clinton needs to address the racist undertones of her 2008 campaign
Ryan Cooper
July 23, 2015

McKesson is right to be suspicious. Hillary Clinton's record on race is not great. If she wishes to earn some trust on issues of racial justice, a good place to start would be with the distinctly racist undertones of her 2008 campaign against Barack Obama.

As the first primaries got underway in 2008, and Obama began to slowly pull ahead, the Clinton camp resorted to increasingly blatant race- and Muslim-baiting. It started in February, when Louis Farrakhan, the head of the Nation of Islam, endorsed Obama in a sermon. In a debate a couple days later, moderator Tim Russert repeatedly pressed Obama on the issue, who responded with repeated reassurances that he did not ask for the endorsement, did not accept it, and in fact was not a deranged anti-Semite. That wasn't enough for Clinton, who demanded that Obama "denounce" Farrakhan, which he did.

About the same time, a picture of Obama in traditional Somali garb (from an official trip) then appeared on the Drudge Report, and Matt Drudge claimed he got it from the Clinton campaign. After stonewalling on the origin question, the campaign later claimed it had nothing to do with it. A Clinton flack then went on MSNBC and argued that Obama should not be ashamed to appear in "his native clothing, in the clothing of his country."

Later, a media firestorm blew up when it was discovered that Obama's Chicago pastor Jeremiah Wright once delivered a sermon containing the words "God damn America." In response, Obama gave a deft, nuanced speech on racial issues, but Clinton kept the issue alive by insisting she would have long ago denounced the man.

The late Michael Hastings, who covered Clinton's campaign, described one instance of this strategy on the ground:

[Clinton supporter] Buffenbarger launched into a rant in which he compared Obama to Muhammad Ali, the best-known black American convert to Islam after Malcolm X. "But brothers and sisters," he said, "I've seen Ali in action. He could rope-a-dope with Foreman inside the ring. He could go toe-to-toe with Liston inside the ring. He could get his jaw broken by Norton and keep fighting inside the ring. But Barack Obama is no Muhammad Ali." The cunning racism of the attack actually made my heart start to beat fast and my ears start to ring. For the first time on the campaign trail, I felt completely outraged. I kept thinking, "Am I misreading this?" But there was no way, if you were in that room, to think it was anything other than what it was. [GQ]

Then there was Bill Clinton comparing Obama's campaign to that of Jesse Jackson's unsuccessful run in 1988. The capstone came in May, when Hillary Clinton started openly boasting about her superior support from white voters.

The effort was not so blatant as George H.W. Bush's Willie Horton ad, but the attempt to play on racist attitudes through constant repetition and association was unmistakable — in addition to playing into right-wing conspiracy theories that Obama is a secret Muslim who was born in Africa. It's likely why in West Virginia — a state so racist that some guy in a Texas prison got 40 percent of the Democratic primary vote in 2012 — Clinton won a smashing victory.

http://theweek.com/articles/567774/hillary-clinton-needs-address-racist-undertones-2008-campaign



Then there was this lovely speech from Hillary:



Frankly I'm shocked that you don't remember what happened in 2008 since you're so concerned with racial issues.

I remember what happened even if you don't and even though I'm sure you'd rather everyone pretend it didn't and forget how your candidate campaigned that's not going to happen.

When Bernie resorts to that kind of dirty gutter politics get back to me, until then I'll continue to speak my mind.

Your trademark personal attacks and meta bullshit aren't going to intimidate or silence me.

And if you're thinking of alerting on my post don't bother, those articles come from credible news sources, not right wing ones, they were widely posted and discussed here in 2008.

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
125. OH MY GOD! The Sanders' campaign tried to paint Sanders in a good light!
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:29 PM
Jan 2016

OH MY GOD! Sanders' campaign tried to convince some union workers to vote for Sanders!

OH MY GOD! Sanders' has a few rude online supporters!

OH MY GOD! Sanders' campaign tried to make a better photo op for Sanders' campaign!

OH MY GOD! Sanders wants to give ponies to everyone without also promising magic hats to others!

OH MY GOD! Sanders' campaign tried to investigate an insecure voter contact list!

What "crime" will Sanders commit next? Will he eat with his fork in his left hand? Will one of his supporters put a piece of compost in the trash? Stay tuned!

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
3. Um, it's pretty clear that these actions were not sanctioned by Bernie, so calling it
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 03:54 PM
Jan 2016

"his consistently unethical behavior" is simply factually inaccurate.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
6. Mailers from his campaign?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 03:56 PM
Jan 2016

I didn't know about the Conservation one, but I did know about AARP.

He filed a law suit against the DNC following the Data breach.

If they weren't sanctioned, that means he has no control over his own campaign, which is itself a problem.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
12. Do you have a link to the mailers?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:05 PM
Jan 2016

Ive received more than a dozen Bernie mailers and they sound nothing like what Ive been hearing.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
24. I see, so that's the new tact is it?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:22 PM
Jan 2016

Last edited Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)

They never happened? http://www.newsweek.com/sanders-complaints-iowa-nevada-420806

The AARP and League of Conservation Voters are a bunch of liars trying to take down Bernie?

Now about try the line, they aren't fit to criticize him. He doesn't need endorsement because he is better, more perfect, and the rest of the world nothing but diabolical liars engaged in a giant conspiracy designed to deprive Bernie of the presidency that should be rightfully his?

I guess assuming the whole word--every news organization, advocacy group, environmental group, civil rights group, union, union, plebe, lowly citizen--all lie and only Bernie tells the truth must make for a convenient way of avoiding thinking about issues and problems, but it does not exactly instill credibility. Most voters are not willing to suspend all critical thought in order to advance the career of one man.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
36. asking a question is a "tact" now?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:35 PM
Jan 2016

Geez. I just wanted compare the questionable mailers to the many Ive received. Sorry I asked.

tblue37

(65,319 posts)
136. "Tack." The reference is to a ship's tacking to turn its course toward the wind at an angle.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 12:45 AM
Jan 2016

A new tack is a change in direction.

Hekate

(90,643 posts)
51. Using an organization's logo implies a connection that in this case does not exist. Naughty naughty.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jan 2016
 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
56. Thank you.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:58 PM
Jan 2016

He definitely shouldnt have used the logo without permission. A head should roll for this.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
116. How were they delivered?
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:55 PM
Jan 2016

Looks like the LCV logo and their rating of Bernie was photoshopped over the recipient address on an envelope/mailer from the Sanders campaign. Note the postage block in the upper right hand corner. How was this delivered without an addressee?

Bjornsdotter

(6,123 posts)
13. No control over a campaign can be a problem
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:07 PM
Jan 2016
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/21/clinton-super-pac-offers-off-record-news-tips/79131372/



"Hillary Clinton’s super PAC has tried to “flag” stories about Bernie Sanders, but the group does not want its name attached.

Daniel Wessel, Correct the Record press secretary, contacted the Burlington Free Press by email and phone to offer "off the record" story pitches.

During a Thursday afternoon phone conversation with Wessel, the Free Press declined to take off-the-record tips."
 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
43. I think some literall put the same weight behind the two.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:42 PM
Jan 2016

As you have shown here. Please tell us, what do socks have to do with the op at all?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
49. It certainly discredits the OP,
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:05 PM
Jan 2016

and demonstrates that lying and misrepresentation is not beneath him/her.

Orrex

(63,201 posts)
115. Well, no. Nothing like that, actually.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:50 PM
Jan 2016

Sock puppets are a trick for circumventing post-limits on discussion forums, or create the impression that an opinion is more widespread than might be the case.

Cheating in order to benefit one's presidential campaign is entirely different.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
10. Cali, what there is a lie?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:02 PM
Jan 2016

All of what is noted above has been confirmed.

There was a data breach. Logs show that files were deliberately accessed and downloaded.

The mailers went out. People received them.

Campaign staff who were not union members wore union buttons and pissed off the union.

He insulted PP and the Human Rights Council as "establishment."

I think what you mean to say is that none of that matters because: Bernie.

George II

(67,782 posts)
20. Not only did they piss off the union, but with their "union" buttons they accessed....
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:17 PM
Jan 2016

....areas of the hotels restricted to employees. They trespassed. They're lucky they weren't jailed for trespassing.

All the other things pointed out by you and the article did happen.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
55. Major Nevada union, Sanders campaign resolve dispute
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:52 PM
Jan 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141329633

Snip: "Culinary has long been at the center of the Nevada caucuses. The union endorsed Barack Obama in 2008, a race where Clinton campaign staffers were accused of trying to infiltrate various casinos and resorts in Las Vegas."
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
28. The data breach was in no way his fault and it
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:26 PM
Jan 2016

Was a minor thing that dws and.the Clinton campaign tried to make a big deal of. The campaign staff wearing union buttons were not pretending to be union members as Camp Smear surrogates tried to claim. I know just what Bernie meant when he said that HRC and PP are part of establishment. I agree with him. It was dumb of him to say, but big deal. Hillary threatened to only talk to white people in a meeting with BLM. That was dumb too. People say dumb things.

We know for a fact that Hillary is a dirty campaigner.

Response to cali (Reply #7)

Nanjeanne

(4,950 posts)
11. Once
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:03 PM
Jan 2016

But I'm still waiting . . .

BUTTONGATE (seems to be nothing of any importance and resolved by the union so nothing there)

LOGOGATE (still waiting for anything more than a pic of a logo on an envelope to accuse Bernie Sanders of anything)

AARPGATE (see above)

QUOTEGATE (oh no, Bernie repeated what the Des Moines Register actually really totally said about him in print. The shame)

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
18. I'm not so naive as to think information
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:12 PM
Jan 2016

or facts actually matter in comparison to what is truly important: Bernie.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
33. They do matter, particularly facts of the matter as to voting record.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:31 PM
Jan 2016

I'm going to K&R because I respect you (even if I don't respect the candidate you support).

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
19. Bernie has run the most honest and classy campaign I've ever witnessed.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:13 PM
Jan 2016

Certain other campaigns could learn a few things about integrity by taking his lead(That article is bullshit btw).

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
31. That's exactly what I was thinking.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:27 PM
Jan 2016

Exactly.

There is nothing Bernie can do, or be accused of doing, that would make Hillary (or O'Malley) palatable or an option. Nothing.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
32. Is this the mailer that doesn't have a recipient address?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:28 PM
Jan 2016

I wonder how the post Office handled those.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
54. Exactly. When you blew up that image someone brought here there was
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:42 PM
Jan 2016
no room for a recipient address, because that logo took up the space under the stamp and was much too below to leave room between it and the bar-code for anything. Were they just sent out blank as unaddressed admail to everyone? That would cost an absolute fortune, and why would any campaign do that? Seems very odd.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
123. I'm thinking the reason there's no room for a recipient address is because
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 06:21 PM
Jan 2016

the logo is covering up the original recipient address. If this is the "proof" that Newsweek was given that these flyers exist, whoever thought that was credible is a complete idiot.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
66. By reading the envelope
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 09:24 PM
Jan 2016

Rather than what was inside, I would presume. But I get it, environmental groups, like unions and the AARP are all liars. Bernie and his campaign are the only ones anyone should ever believe and under no circumstances are they to be doubted. Faith must be absolute.

I do have a question. If the conservation group is so evil and duplicitous, like the culinary workers union, why would Bernie lower himself to have anything to do with them, or boast about how they rated him? That doesn't quite add up.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
70. Why would there be a postage-paid mark on the mailer, if it's in an envelope?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 09:55 PM
Jan 2016

Or a sender address? Mailers like this are sent "naked," not enveloped. So. Where's the recipient's address?

But I get it, environmental groups, like unions and the AARP are all liars.


Those are entirely your words, not mine. No surprise about your personal beliefs, I suppose.

Bernie and his campaign are the only ones anyone should ever believe and under no circumstances are they to be doubted. Faith must be absolute.


Seems like projection on your part. have you read any of your own posts since May?

I do have a question. If the conservation group is so evil and duplicitous, like the culinary workers union, why would Bernie lower himself to have anything to do with them, or boast about how they rated him? That doesn't quite add up.


Who said anything about these organizations being "evil" or "duplicitous"? Isn't that what you're claiming about Senator Sanders?

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
83. Both organizations released statements about the mailers
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 12:51 AM
Jan 2016
http://www.newsweek.com/sanders-complaints-iowa-nevada-420806

If the mailers did not exist, they were lying. If they lied, doesn't that make them duplicitous?

Of course, for those of us who are not part of the one true faith, we hold out the possibility that they aren't lying.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
88. That they did.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 03:00 AM
Jan 2016

However, the evident mailer of the LCV issue is completely nonsensical, as I have explained to you. It's clearly designed to be a "naked" mailer, but there is no recipient address. Even mass-mailing box-stuffers have "current resident" plastered in that space. It's very possible that LCV is issuing its statement in regard to someone else's fraud.

As newsweek mentions, the AARP situation is not of Sanders' campaign "using the logo" but rather the campaign using pictures of people wearing T-shirts that sport a secondary logo. While they're perfectly right to say "we don't endorse candidates and please don't use our logo" your efforts to cast it as perfidious - "evil lying" to throw your words back at you - by the Sanders campaign seems pretty overblown.

Also you have a whole lot of nerve to try to pull that "one true faith" thing. Again, have you read any of your own posts since may?

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
92. You don't like LCV would have verified the mailer before issuing the statement?
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 04:38 AM
Jan 2016
The League of Conservation Voters, however, has contacted Sanders’s staff, objecting to their logo being used on another mailer, shared with Newsweek, which portrays the senator as an environmental champion. The pamphlet, which is being sent out in Iowa, notes that Sanders “has a lifetime score of 95 percent from the League of Conservation Voters” and displays the group’s logo beside it.

However, the league requires permission to use its logo and only grants that to politicians who’ve been endorsed by the affiliated LCV Action Fund. In the presidential race, that’s Clinton. According to a spokesman, the group has asked the Sanders campaign to not continue using its logo, and the campaign is looking into how it happened.


Both Newsweek and LCV treat the mailer as fact. You say it isn't because some picture you saw on DU wasn't to your liking. That would be an example of what I call a faith-based approach to politics. You assume all of these other entities are lying simply because what they say is unflattering to Bernie. You dismiss the use of AARP logos in photos disseminated by the campaign, despite the fact that the AARP has said it is not acceptable. Impersonating culinary workers doesn't even merit a mention from you. Yesterday on DU, we had threads of people assailing the union as lying.

My support for Clinton is hardly uncritical. In that sense, there is no comparison to Sanders supporters. I do not accuse everyone who criticizes, contradicts, or fails to vote for her of being liars or part of a conspiracy. I don't declare her to be the source of absolute truth. I am voting for her because she is the best qualified candidate and because I feel the other leading candidate wholly unprepared to execute the job of the presidency. Plus I don't believe him. I agree with Clinton on some things and disagree with her on others. I haven't shifted my views on any issue in order to accommodate hers.

One key difference I have with Sanders supporters is the rather unrealistic view of the power of a president, or the importance of a single man, for that matter. I don't believe Hillary Clinton--or any other politician-- more important or superior to the voters she seeks to represent. I don't believe the people don't have a right to criticize or challenge her. I'm not willing to suspend all understanding of the legislative process or the constitution in order to vest all hope in her proposed policies. Those are all areas in which I diverge significantly from many Sanders' supporters approach to their candidate

I haven't used the death of someone's loved one to score political points for Clinton; I haven't insisted that anyone who refuses to vote for her should be arrested after she is elected; I haven't insulted people on FB because they fail to endorse her; I never even insisted she was too important to be protested by Black Lives Matter. All I do is make phone calls and do a bit of canvassing.



 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
93. I have no idea if they would or not.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 05:07 AM
Jan 2016

I know that if they didn't, it wouldn't be the first time some group or other has issued a statement without full knowledge.

You say it isn't because some picture you saw on DU wasn't to your liking.


The image in question was actually provided by your fellows, promoting the "Sanders is a lying shit" conspiracy of the week. That image bears a sender's address and a postage mark, so it's clearly not enveloped. But it has no recipient address. it's not about whether or not it's "to my liking" it's that I've sent and received plenty of mail in my lifetime, and the lack of a recipient address is kind of strange to me.

You dismiss the use of AARP logos in photos disseminated by the campaign, despite the fact that the AARP has said it is not acceptable.


Well, there is a difference between using the AARP logo, and using a picture of people who happen to be wearing a sub-logo on their clothing. However, I didn't dismiss it, BainsBane.
While they're perfectly right to say "we don't endorse candidates and please don't use our logo"

if you would kindly refrain from trying ot lie to me about things I've said, I would appreciate that.

Impersonating culinary workers doesn't even merit a mention from you. Yesterday on DU, we had threads of people assailing the union as lying.


Well, according to the union the issue was resolved. Apparently Sanders' people were not trying to misrepresent themselves, but there was a miscommunication going on regarding the buttons.

My support for Clinton is hardly uncritical. In that sense, there is no comparison to Sanders supporters. I do not accuse everyone who criticizes, contradicts, or fails to vote for her of being liars or part of a conspiracy. I don't declare her to be the source of absolute truth. I am voting for her because she is the best qualified candidate and because I feel the other leading candidate wholly unprepared to execute the job of the presidency. Plus I don't believe him. I agree with Clinton on some things and disagree with her on others. I haven't shifted my views on any issue in order to accommodate hers.


Oh, I know you haven't shifted views. I do know that you were supporting her back in April, before you started your "fifty reasons Bernie supporters made me support Clinton' campaign that we all had a good laugh at, so that you haven't changed your stances isn't really a surprise. But... I hate to tell you but right now? You are calling everyone who doesn't support Clinton a liar. You are accusing them of conspiracy. Hell, you've been calling sanders a liar up and down this thread.

strange then that so far the only lying I've seen comes from you, first telling me I said something I clearly did not, and then saying you aren't calling anyone liars.

One key difference I have with Sanders supporters is the rather unrealistic view of the power of a president, or the importance of a single man, for that matter. I don't believe Hillary Clinton--or any other politician-- more important or superior to the voters she seeks to represent. I don't believe the people don't have a right to criticize or challenge her. I'm not willing to suspend all understanding of the legislative process or the constitution in order to vest all hope in her proposed policies. Those are all areas in which I diverge significantly from many Sanders' supporters approach to their candidate


This is a BanesBain I would like to see return to DU. Give her a ring.
 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
35. Bernie Sanders didn't do any of this.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:34 PM
Jan 2016

There has not been one scrap of evidence that shows Bernie's knowledge of or involvement in any of these poorly documented incidents.

What is very clear on the other side is that Hillary is doing and saying stuff that is highly questionable, especially coming from another Democratic candidate who expects us to believe she is in any ways "Progressive".

 

MeNMyVolt

(1,095 posts)
38. Good piece. Thanks for posting it Bains.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:35 PM
Jan 2016

I still blame it all on Weaver, but I'm beginning to have second thoughts on that.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
40. She also accused Obama of cheating in '08 which makes this redux effort twice as funny.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:37 PM
Jan 2016

How'd that work out for her again?

Live by the smear, die by the smear.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
42. Off the top of my head I would say... Once for every Top Secret email found to have passed...
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:40 PM
Jan 2016

through Hillary Clinton's private email server.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
52. Bill Palmer certainly puts it all out there, doesn't he?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 05:26 PM
Jan 2016
Many democrats and liberals, even some who plan to vote for Clinton, have said that they fear calling out Sanders for his consistently unethical behavior over the past month because they don’t want to muddy the waters for him on the small chance that he ends up being the party’s nominee.

I think that's a very interesting observation on Mr. Palmer's part. It's clear that he sees a very sharp distinction in the attitudes and actions of the supporters of the different candidates.




Note to Jury: These are not my words. I did not write them. I have excerpted the words of Bill Palmer, an editorialist. I have merely noted that in my opinion, his words are interesting to me. I've called attention to the fact that Mr. Palmer notes and describes the differences he's observed between the candidate's supporters. I have not attacked or smeared any candidate or candidate's supporters.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
57. I think people have far more to fear
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jan 2016

from the Clinton Machine than from almost any other candidate. The Clintons have proven themselves absolutely ruthless against people who get in their way.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
58. That's a very optimistic way of looking at things! :-) Hillary certainly is a fighter!
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 06:32 PM
Jan 2016

Thanks for the reminder ... it helps me to feel even MORE confident that Hillary will win the nomination!

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
73. "Many democrats and liberals..."
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 09:59 PM
Jan 2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

Many Clinton supporters are secretly members of the Raelian cult. Some Clinton supporters eat at Chik-Fil-A. Several people say that clinton supporters sing Creed songs while in crowded airports.

Cha

(297,137 posts)
64. Thank you for posting this, BB.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 07:13 PM
Jan 2016

"Yesterday the League of Conservation Voters accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of improperly using its logo on fundraising mailers after the group had endorsed his rival Hillary Clinton. Today the Nevada Culinary Union accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of disguising its staffers as if they were union members so they could campaign in restricted areas. These are serious liberal groups, and these are serious accusations that can’t be ignored.

"On their own, they each could be written off as mere happenstance. But put them together, in light of the data breach no less, and it starts to spell out a pattern. Throw in Bernie’s dishonest lawsuit against the DNC to try to turn his own scandal into a phony conspiracy so he could fundraise on it, his sudden attacks on Bill Clinton, his comparison of Hillary Clinton to Dick Cheney, and his verbal attack on Planned Parenthood simply because it failed to endorse him, and suddenly we realized the past month has amounted to an undeniable pattern of dishonesty and outright cheating on the part of Bernie Sanders. So what now?"

More to come?

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

jfern

(5,204 posts)
67. LOL, you guys are still talking about the non story with the Culinary union that got resolved?
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 09:26 PM
Jan 2016

I guess you're just hoping that people don't notice that the Obama administration has 100 FBI agents working full time investigating Hillary's e-mails and the Clinton Foundation?

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
71. I must say, as a life long David Bowie fan, heartbroken from his death, it's a gut punch
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 09:57 PM
Jan 2016

to read such disingenuous smearing posts like this - connected with David Bowie's likeness. Gah. I've tried to stay out of the primary mud slinging, but I must say, this is such absolute rubbish.

On Edit - I'm a middle aged Wellstone Liberal Gen-X Feminist Woman who will caucus for Bernie in Minnesota.

Ron Green

(9,822 posts)
84. There they are. 37 of 'em.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 12:55 AM
Jan 2016

It's the good ol' gallery of good ol' Clinton supporters. C'mon, can't we get 40?

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
87. I think a lot of them are busy doing GOTV in Iowa
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 01:19 AM
Jan 2016

Or simply doing something else.

Reminder: BU is not the Democratic Party or America at large.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
102. Some posters would rather go on about how awful Bernie's supporters are.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:33 AM
Jan 2016

Last edited Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:06 AM - Edit history (1)

And on and on and on...

If Hillary is the better candidate why aren't her supporters posting about the issues?

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
104. What's the phrase that means attacking a candidate on his strengths? Swiftboating.
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:57 AM
Jan 2016

No one is considering arresting my candidate and charging him with federal crimes.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
135. yes. so feeble.
Sun Jan 31, 2016, 12:07 AM
Jan 2016

it does not even make sense to believe the crap being slung to discredit bernie.
i am a woman of color and have marched, been gassed, been insulted by racist bigots, not promoted and paid less than coworkers not because i was able to do the job and run circles around others - but because of my race and my gender. there is no way in hell i would be supporting, donating to, and campaigning for bernie if any of this shit is going on. i can smell that bullshit a mile away and have not encountered any of it amongst bernie supporters. this topic of this thread smells like bullshit.

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
114. His reps on TV are so lowbrow, he has to know
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 12:27 PM
Jan 2016

what they are capable of. Angry white men with entitlement issues is how they come across. BS foments this type of anger which then manifests itself with this type of cheating with impunity.

Great thread!

Orrex

(63,201 posts)
121. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Sat Jan 30, 2016, 04:35 PM
Jan 2016

Mail Message
On Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:43 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

His reps on TV are so lowbrow, he has to know
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1096533

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"angry white men": Referring to people by the color of their skin is racist, it's no different than disparaging AA Democrats by dismissing them as "angry black men".

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:58 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm close to 100% certain that the alerting DUer either alerted on the wrong post or else didn't read the post before alerting on it. Seriously?


This angry white man says "Leave it."


Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seems indistinguishable from the other ad hominem froth that is the lingua franca of GDP. If all messages of this ilk got hidden, it would raise the tone of discourse. Or maybe create a discourse. But as matters stand, I can't see why this deserves its own special hide.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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