2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"How many times does Bernie Sanders have to get caught cheating before we admit there’s a problem?"
Yesterday the League of Conservation Voters accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of improperly using its logo on fundraising mailers after the group had endorsed his rival Hillary Clinton. Today the Nevada Culinary Union accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of disguising its staffers as if they were union members so they could campaign in restricted areas. These are serious liberal groups, and these are serious accusations that cant be ignored.
On their own, they each could be written off as mere happenstance. But put them together, in light of the data breach no less, and it starts to spell out a pattern. Throw in Bernies dishonest lawsuit against the DNC to try to turn his own scandal into a phony conspiracy so he could fundraise on it, his sudden attacks on Bill Clinton, his comparison of Hillary Clinton to Dick Cheney, and his verbal attack on Planned Parenthood simply because it failed to endorse him, and suddenly we realized the past month has amounted to an undeniable pattern of dishonesty and outright cheating on the part of Bernie Sanders. So what now?
Many democrats and liberals, even some who plan to vote for Clinton, have said that they fear calling out Sanders for his consistently unethical behavior over the past month because they dont want to muddy the waters for him on the small chance that he ends up being the partys nominee. Super Tuesday polling has already made clear that he wont be the nominee. But even that aside, it appears that Bernie is counting on our unwillingness to talk about his behavior. If we want it to stop, were going to have to call him out on it before he goes further off the rails.
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/how-many-times-does-bernie-sanders-have-to-get-caught-cheating-before-we-admit-theres-a-problem/23693/
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Dude sounds totally impartial.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)logos, lunchrooms, really?
fake accusations about bringing in ineligible voters?
there's no comparison with the wholesale influence peddling of the Clintons
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Meaning daring to talk about events that have already been established.
"Influence peddling"? Meaningly drawing on relationships developed through decades of years in politics? That is what politics is. The spectacle of speeches may make for good entertainment, but they do nothing to improve the lives of human beings. In Flint, Clinton used her "influence peddling" to do something about the problem. Bernie didn't bother to even contact the mayor but instead announced the governor should resign. One had an impact on people's lives; the other didn't.
Sanders has been in DC for 25 years. He's had plenty of opportunity to develop productive relationships that could result in said "influence peddling." He hasn't bothered.
Clinton does the stuff people like me don't. She remembers everyone's names. Sends notes of condolences, asks about their families, nurtures relationships. That is her "influence." It's developed through decades of one to one contact with real human beings. http://bluenationreview.com/i-was-a-hillary-hater-until-i-read-her-emails/
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)smear =
-stating he will bring in ineligible voters
-red baiting
-making a big fuss over minor actions of his volunteers
-calling his health car and tax plans unworkable even when they are in the tradition of what were once know as Democratic Party principals
influence peddling =
-getting paid large sums of money to speak privately to the rich and powerful and not disclosing the nature of those speeches never mind their transcripts
-funneling government contracts to companies that contribute to your foundation
-selling fracking to the world
but i think you understood where i was coming from
mythology
(9,527 posts)In fact it's based on incorrect math, hence the prescription drug savings that was more than is spent on prescription drugs. That's kind of a big fundamental underlying problem. You can say it's within the Democratic Party's principles, but it's not funded to last. That's a problem for me.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)It isn't just about money
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511085869
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)To see the 'math' in action.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)HILLBILL MACHINE IN DISARRAY GOING TUBULAR!
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Like the $800 billion to Lockheed-Martin or immunity for gun corporations? That sort of influence?
No, accepting donations for a charity, a charity that works on climate change and global health, as well as empowering girls and women around the world. A charity that is chartered in the US, subject to IRS law and US government oversight. Not even chartered in the Caribbean where it's financial dealings can't be taxed or overseen by the IRS.
"Minor actions of volunteers." Impersonating union workers. Illegally using logos in mailings. Who cares? Now reportedly, supposedly (yet we still haven't seen a quote) making a statement about bused in caucusers, now that is far more egregious. She should really be poking around in his computer files instead, harvesting data, so that suddenly people in Iowa never before contacted by the campaign start getting phone calls. Instead, someone said the campaign said something. That is truly an outrage.
Please tell me when Single Payer was one known as a Democratic principle. I know a bit about US history and I know of no such Democratic Party. Please, enlighten me.
And really, how dare anyone talk about how a Tea Party House will go from a veto-proof majority to overturn Obamacare to passing single payer all cause of Bernie. Worry about the constitutional limitations of the presidency? That truly is unethical. Far better to promise a health plan to voters that the candidate himself declared a non-starter in 2009, with a Democratic majority in both houses.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance
Promising what he himself knows won't happen, that takes real integrity. And then floating a plan where even the summary page has inconsistent figures for cost. But Clinton talks about math. That is so un-Democratic. How dare anyone expect Bernie to account for what his proposals might actually cost? Questioning a man so clearly superior to all other human beings is the height of corruption. The public must be encouraged to refrain from critical thinking, to accept unquestioningly.
A real Democrat would count on the public being uninformed about the legislative process and campaign finance law, boast he doesn't "have super pacs" while benefiting from millions of dollars in dark money spending. Pretend it's all about his "integrity" rather than a system that he himself benefits hugely from. Promise to overturn Citizens United once elected, or that his SCOTUS appointments will promise to overturn it as one of their first decisions, counting on voters having little understanding of how the court works. Or proudly proclaiming he will sponsor "new gun legislation" when the regulations in his proposal are already in effect. Those might just be mistakes, results of poor knowledge of legislation or how SCOTUS works if we were dealing with someone like Rick Perry, but this is a man who has been in DC 25 years and does not appear to be stupid at all.
Hey, you want to do away with fracking, I appoint you to go to ND and Oklahoma and tell those workers they are now unemployed. Then you can gear up for more war in the oil nations to compensate for the oil that isn't coming out the ground in the US. Then you can secure the funding for additional military spending. But hey, Lockheed might get another $800 billion out of it. It's easy to say fracking is bad. When you have to consider the repercussions of what that means for real people's jobs (only blue color workers, not anyone who actually counts) and our involvement in the oil regions, it gets tougher. But keep the issues one-dimensional so they fit on bumper stickers. Why think about broader implications when you sell something simple to voters?
Clinton's lacks integrity because--according to you--she challenges her opponent's proposals, critiques their viability; that she fails to indulge the suspension of thought crucial to the Sanders campaign makes her corrupt. And the press actually is staring to report on Sanders inconsistencies and campaign maneuvers, which is all indicative of Clinton's lack of integrity. If she were truly honest, she would insist the press not publish anything but adoration of Bernie.
Red baiting. You want a man who claims to be a socialist in America, and who will run against the GOP, and you're complaining about red baiting? Get a fucking grip. Clearly you and your candidate are not ready for prime time. Better go curl up under the covers because you don't want to see what would happen if Bernie faced a general election, when you face a GOP that doesn't give a shit what self-entitled "progressives" think. A GOP that takes no prisoners and is currently spending millions to try to get Bernie as their opponent in the general election. We need a candidate who can take them on, and all y'alls complaints only serve to emphasize the fact that it is not Bernie. If he is anywhere as weak as his supporters treat him, he isn't up to the task.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)They claim they want to discuss issues, but when a post full of issues hits them, what do we get?
*Crickets chirping*
But what can they do? How to argue with the truth, presented in such formidable way?
BainsBane, this deserves to be an op, and to have its own thread.
George II
(67,782 posts)pandr32
(11,578 posts)Aside from pointing out many governing and policy truths that go over like lead balloons in the virtual halls of the discussion boards and comment sections while Bernie is running for the Democratic nomination, you have managed to also point out something that should be alarming--this:
"The public must be encouraged to refrain from critical thinking, to accept unquestioningly."
This is not what democracy is about. We are all looking for equal representation and for our voice (each of us) to matter. What exactly is it that those affected by the social contagion of the Bernie campaign hoping for? That Bernie will suddenly listen to them all? He has never been much of a listener, and has a long-time reputation for sticking to exactly the same message and that has been twisted into a good thing because he is "authentic." For the first time he has had a taste of political power and now is talking about a "revolution"--the same, unchanged guy that said Daniel Ortega was "impressive" and tried to see Fidel Castro, but was rebuffed.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and not even pro Bernie. They don't hold Bernie to these standards. Why isn't he corrupt for his gun votes?
okasha
(11,573 posts)Unfortunately, you're addressing folks who break out in hives when presented with facts.
They deal with problems by denying they exist, not addressing them.
MeNMyVolt
(1,095 posts)I feel like bookmarking it for times when I need to get my juices running again.
Thank you!
Squinch
(50,949 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)I need a bowing smilie! I guess I'll settle for the hat tip. Epic and awesome
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)They'd all be up! I'll have to settle for this:
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Do they think we forgot all about her racist 2008 campaign?
The daily display of manufactured outrage is quite a show.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Bernie supporters are informed and on the ground informing others. People who are inclined to support Bernie only become more so inclined in the face of these absurdities.
And, no, I haven't forgotten that Hillary was the candidate of hard working white people.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's quite a resume.
frylock
(34,825 posts)You see it everyday around here. The same uninformed people posting the same uninformed bullshit.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)They're desperate.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)With evidence. If you can.
frylock
(34,825 posts)BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Result from my being hopelssly uninformed.
frylock
(34,825 posts)BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Advocacy organizations themselves denounced the behavior, as did the union.
Your point was not that Clinton supporters lack faith, daring to question someone you believe should have no scrutiny. Instead, you insisted we were uninformed. Clearly you cannot support that point since your objection has nothing to do with information and everything to do with your view that Sanders should not be questioned. It in fact turns out you are the one who chooses to remain uninformed about the events above.
The latest, as covered by Politico and other news outlets, is that he has disseminated a list of foreign policy advisors, some of whom don't even know him and others who had a single conversation with him a year or more ago. That particular move is to my knowledge entirely unprecedented in political history. Naturally that will be excused as well because: Bernie.
At least we now know how it was possible for him to declare that Iran and Saudi Arabia should be made to fight ISIS together. I am not a US Senator and far from an expert on foreign policy, but even I know those two countries have extremely tense relations. You'll have to forgive me if I want a president who knows the difference between Sunni and Shia.
frylock
(34,825 posts)and one grainy, low-res photo of an envelope with an LCV logo where the addressee's name and address would typically go. So sorry, I don't believe that shit ever happened. As for stolen data, where are the charges? Surely, there are pending criminal charges regarding the alleged theft of this data, no? The only people clinging to this nonsense are increasingly nervous Hillary supporters. This isn't even on the radar.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Hmm. Instead of assuming that a guy who's campaigned on the up-and-up for decades has suddenly changed shortly before an important caucus, I'm betting my money on "ratfucking from known sleazy campaigner".
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The hypocrisy is staggering.
frylock
(34,825 posts)hopemountain
(3,919 posts)another example of rovian smoke and mirrors and manufactured accusations targeting bernie's integrity - the very value which hillary lacks and her comrades cannot tolerate.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 30, 2016, 08:32 AM - Edit history (1)
Why should anyone care about any of the problems listed above? I mean, we are talking about Bernie after all, not a mere mortal. How can anyone suggest that Bernie isn't entitled to do anything he wants?
If Clinton is so racist, why is she supported by the overwhelming percentage of voters of color? Why do Sanders rallies in diverse areas like S Carolina and the Twin Cities draw overwhelmingly white crowds? So much so that a few black folks who enter end up being racially profiled as potential disruptors? http://www.citypages.com/news/racial-profiling-alleged-at-bernie-sanders-rally-in-st-paul-8000955
Yet a number of Sanders supporters would have us believe that it is white people who are oppressed by having to endure speech that talks about how people of color have been profiled.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:23 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
RACIAL PROFILING ALLEGED AT BERNIE SANDERS RALLY IN ST. PAUL
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511086919
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
the caps alone, not just the racist crap makes this op unacceptable.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This alert is a clear attempt to silence anyone critical of Sanders. Censorship is not becoming on a Democratic board. Please leave it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: To quote Airplane! "Surely you can't be serious
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerting over all caps certainly takes the cake! The OP is sourced and anyone can challenge if they wish, but there is nothing hide worth in the OP.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251587673#post173
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=563036
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22beam+me+up+scottie%22+%22race+baiting%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl#q=+%22beam+me+up+scottie%22+%22race+baiting%22+site:democraticunderground.com
I've seen enough of your comments about "race baiting" to know better than to take lessons from you on what constitutes racism. For that, I prefer to listen to what people of color have to say on the subject.
Somehow, most voters of color don't share your take on racism: they don't believe that they are racist for daring to talk about racial profiling or racist behavior by whites. Amazingly, they don't think affluent white men, members of the political elite, to be more oppressed that the subaltern. Go figure.
I disagree in the strongest possible terms that black folks engage in "race baiting" by discussing profiling against them or racist murders. I do not share the view that the most racially oppressed people in America are white, particularly affluent white men with political power seeking to acquire yet more power.
I actually think the racism that matters is that directed toward people of color and that includes efforts to silence them and accuse of them of "race baiting," or accusing white people who actually give a shit about diversity of "race baiting." The function of such rhetoric is to enforce white control over public discourse, to ensure that matters of diversity and actual racism toward people of color is attacked as illegitimate subjects of discussion because it makes the white people uncomfortable, or perhaps simply because it fails to advance the career of one man. Then of course there is the use of the alert system to purge the site of anyone who fails to fall in line behind the dominant cultural expectation that race cannot be discussed unless it is to attack Clinton and people of color, or to highlight the horrible oppression of white people at the hands of uppity black folk who dare to assert their rights, talk about racist killings, or racial profiling.
Meanwhile, the Sanders campaign's strategy for victory is to focus on states with low voter turnout in order to get around the influence of voters of color.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/bernie-sanders-iowa-obama-playbook-218137
As much as you think it hateful to talk about the importance of voters of color in the Democratic Party, I do not. I think their influence important, and seeking to get around it or censor all discussion of it is intended to nullify that influence in favor of greater influence by whites, and white men in particular. African American voters have become aware of their voting power and intend to use it, as they well should. That is not racist; it is smart. It is how they will compel politicians to address their concerns, concerns that matter, regardless of how determined some are to silence it through insults like "race baiting."
I was an Obama supporter in 2008, though I made my mind up only shortly before Super Tuesday when I caucused. I was considering other candidates but not Clinton because of my opposition to the war. I remember finding some in 2008, especially by Bill Clinton, to be highly offensive. They were unacceptable, but Hillary has since made great efforts to mend bridges with African American communities, and she has by and large succeeded.
2008, however, does not nullify or excuse what is going on now in 2016. Too many Sanders supporters have demonstrated deeply conservative values by insisting leftist activists like BLM need to be deferential to a member of the political elite. That reveals a profound bias against people's movements--at least movements by people of color--in favor of a man in power. There is little that can be more reactionary. Some of those attacks have taken overt racial tones, through racist insults, etc. Others may simply invoke racist tropes in order to advance Bernie's career, just as they invoke sexism, but ultimately the effect of both approaches is the same. Evidently they feel the goal of "taking America back" (a phrase that carries multiple meanings) justifies any and everything. In the process, they expose precisely who they are.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)First let's clear something up, once again you're putting words in people's mouths, I didn't say she was a racist - you did. I said she ran a racist campaign and I'm not the only one who noticed even if you didn't:
Ewen MacAskill in Washington
Monday 25 February 2008
Barack Obama, right, is dressed as a Somali elder by Sheikh Mahmed Hassan, left, during his visit to Wajir in northeastern Kenya, near the borders with Somalia and Ethiopia
Barack Obama's campaign team today accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim.
Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election". Obama has had to spend much of the campaign stressing he is a Christian not a Muslim and did not study at a madrassa.
Aides for Mrs Clinton, who is fighting a last-ditch battle to keep her hopes of the White House alive, initially tried to brush off the furore, but later denied having anything to do with the distribution of the picture. "I just want to make it very clear that we were not aware of it, the campaign didn't sanction it and don't know anything about it," Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson told reporters. "None of us have seen the email in question."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/25/barackobama.hillaryclinton
Posted: January 27, 2008
Matthew Rothschild
The trouncing that Hillary Clinton got in South Carolina proved that the racist and entitled campaign that the Clintons ran there backfired.
The Clinton campaign kept saying, Hes black, black, black, as author and South Carolina activist Kevin Alexander Gray pointed out on Jesse Jacksons Keep Hope Alive program Sunday morning. And Bill Clinton used coded language, like the old okie-dokie, which served to remind whites of Obamas blackness, Gray added. That's like saying dont fall for the old shuck and jive.
And speaking of shuck and jive, thats exactly the phrase Andrew Cuomo used to disparage Obama in New Hampshire, saying he cant use that shuck and jive at press conferences.
Obamas black, get it.
Or Bob Kerrey, another Clinton supporter, saying, I like the fact that his name is Barack Hussein Obama, and that his father was a Muslim, and that he went to school in a madrassa, as Bob Herbert noted in The New York Times. Kerrey later apologized, Herbert added, as did Andrew Young, for saying, Bill is every bit as black as Barack. Hes probably gone with more black women than Barack.
Or take Bill Clinton's ludicrous comment that Hillary is "stronger than Nelson Mandela." (The not-so-subtle dig being that she's not only stronger than that black man Obama, she's stronger than the strongest black man on the face of the Earth.)
To say nothing of the nonsense about Clinton being the first black President, which Obama was forced to address in the CNN debate, and which Bill Clinton seems to revel in.
(Racist tactics are nothing new for Bill Clinton. After he all, he used the Sister Souljah comment to wink at the white base in 1992, and he made a point to hustle back to Arkansas during that campaign just so he could execute a mentally retarded black man named Rickie Ray Rector.)
And sure enough, after the embarrassing loss, the Clinton campaign tried to dismiss the results by stressing the black vote that Obama got and by mentioning that Jesse Jackson had won South Carolina in 1988, as well.
http://progressive.org/news/2008/01/5995/obama-trounces-clintons%E2%80%99-racist-entitled-sc-campaign
Ryan Cooper
July 23, 2015
McKesson is right to be suspicious. Hillary Clinton's record on race is not great. If she wishes to earn some trust on issues of racial justice, a good place to start would be with the distinctly racist undertones of her 2008 campaign against Barack Obama.
As the first primaries got underway in 2008, and Obama began to slowly pull ahead, the Clinton camp resorted to increasingly blatant race- and Muslim-baiting. It started in February, when Louis Farrakhan, the head of the Nation of Islam, endorsed Obama in a sermon. In a debate a couple days later, moderator Tim Russert repeatedly pressed Obama on the issue, who responded with repeated reassurances that he did not ask for the endorsement, did not accept it, and in fact was not a deranged anti-Semite. That wasn't enough for Clinton, who demanded that Obama "denounce" Farrakhan, which he did.
About the same time, a picture of Obama in traditional Somali garb (from an official trip) then appeared on the Drudge Report, and Matt Drudge claimed he got it from the Clinton campaign. After stonewalling on the origin question, the campaign later claimed it had nothing to do with it. A Clinton flack then went on MSNBC and argued that Obama should not be ashamed to appear in "his native clothing, in the clothing of his country."
Later, a media firestorm blew up when it was discovered that Obama's Chicago pastor Jeremiah Wright once delivered a sermon containing the words "God damn America." In response, Obama gave a deft, nuanced speech on racial issues, but Clinton kept the issue alive by insisting she would have long ago denounced the man.
The late Michael Hastings, who covered Clinton's campaign, described one instance of this strategy on the ground:
[Clinton supporter] Buffenbarger launched into a rant in which he compared Obama to Muhammad Ali, the best-known black American convert to Islam after Malcolm X. "But brothers and sisters," he said, "I've seen Ali in action. He could rope-a-dope with Foreman inside the ring. He could go toe-to-toe with Liston inside the ring. He could get his jaw broken by Norton and keep fighting inside the ring. But Barack Obama is no Muhammad Ali." The cunning racism of the attack actually made my heart start to beat fast and my ears start to ring. For the first time on the campaign trail, I felt completely outraged. I kept thinking, "Am I misreading this?" But there was no way, if you were in that room, to think it was anything other than what it was. [GQ]
Then there was Bill Clinton comparing Obama's campaign to that of Jesse Jackson's unsuccessful run in 1988. The capstone came in May, when Hillary Clinton started openly boasting about her superior support from white voters.
The effort was not so blatant as George H.W. Bush's Willie Horton ad, but the attempt to play on racist attitudes through constant repetition and association was unmistakable in addition to playing into right-wing conspiracy theories that Obama is a secret Muslim who was born in Africa. It's likely why in West Virginia a state so racist that some guy in a Texas prison got 40 percent of the Democratic primary vote in 2012 Clinton won a smashing victory.
http://theweek.com/articles/567774/hillary-clinton-needs-address-racist-undertones-2008-campaign
Then there was this lovely speech from Hillary:
Frankly I'm shocked that you don't remember what happened in 2008 since you're so concerned with racial issues.
I remember what happened even if you don't and even though I'm sure you'd rather everyone pretend it didn't and forget how your candidate campaigned that's not going to happen.
When Bernie resorts to that kind of dirty gutter politics get back to me, until then I'll continue to speak my mind.
Your trademark personal attacks and meta bullshit aren't going to intimidate or silence me.
And if you're thinking of alerting on my post don't bother, those articles come from credible news sources, not right wing ones, they were widely posted and discussed here in 2008.
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)OH MY GOD! Sanders' campaign tried to convince some union workers to vote for Sanders!
OH MY GOD! Sanders' has a few rude online supporters!
OH MY GOD! Sanders' campaign tried to make a better photo op for Sanders' campaign!
OH MY GOD! Sanders wants to give ponies to everyone without also promising magic hats to others!
OH MY GOD! Sanders' campaign tried to investigate an insecure voter contact list!
What "crime" will Sanders commit next? Will he eat with his fork in his left hand? Will one of his supporters put a piece of compost in the trash? Stay tuned!
daleanime
(17,796 posts)half of Hillary's total. You have a lovely day now, you hear?
JudyM
(29,225 posts)"his consistently unethical behavior" is simply factually inaccurate.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)I didn't know about the Conservation one, but I did know about AARP.
He filed a law suit against the DNC following the Data breach.
If they weren't sanctioned, that means he has no control over his own campaign, which is itself a problem.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Ive received more than a dozen Bernie mailers and they sound nothing like what Ive been hearing.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 29, 2016, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)
They never happened? http://www.newsweek.com/sanders-complaints-iowa-nevada-420806
The AARP and League of Conservation Voters are a bunch of liars trying to take down Bernie?
Now about try the line, they aren't fit to criticize him. He doesn't need endorsement because he is better, more perfect, and the rest of the world nothing but diabolical liars engaged in a giant conspiracy designed to deprive Bernie of the presidency that should be rightfully his?
I guess assuming the whole word--every news organization, advocacy group, environmental group, civil rights group, union, union, plebe, lowly citizen--all lie and only Bernie tells the truth must make for a convenient way of avoiding thinking about issues and problems, but it does not exactly instill credibility. Most voters are not willing to suspend all critical thought in order to advance the career of one man.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Geez. I just wanted compare the questionable mailers to the many Ive received. Sorry I asked.
tblue37
(65,319 posts)A new tack is a change in direction.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)JudyM
(29,225 posts)Hekate
(90,643 posts)TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)using the D logo
bunnies
(15,859 posts)He definitely shouldnt have used the logo without permission. A head should roll for this.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Looks like the LCV logo and their rating of Bernie was photoshopped over the recipient address on an envelope/mailer from the Sanders campaign. Note the postage block in the upper right hand corner. How was this delivered without an addressee?
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)"Hillary Clintons super PAC has tried to flag stories about Bernie Sanders, but the group does not want its name attached.
Daniel Wessel, Correct the Record press secretary, contacted the Burlington Free Press by email and phone to offer "off the record" story pitches.
During a Thursday afternoon phone conversation with Wessel, the Free Press declined to take off-the-record tips."
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)elias49
(4,259 posts)I'll still be waiting this summer.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)As you have shown here. Please tell us, what do socks have to do with the op at all?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)and demonstrates that lying and misrepresentation is not beneath him/her.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)A proven cheater pointing fingers.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Orrex
(63,201 posts)Sock puppets are a trick for circumventing post-limits on discussion forums, or create the impression that an opinion is more widespread than might be the case.
Cheating in order to benefit one's presidential campaign is entirely different.
cali
(114,904 posts)They are disgusting.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)All of what is noted above has been confirmed.
There was a data breach. Logs show that files were deliberately accessed and downloaded.
The mailers went out. People received them.
Campaign staff who were not union members wore union buttons and pissed off the union.
He insulted PP and the Human Rights Council as "establishment."
I think what you mean to say is that none of that matters because: Bernie.
George II
(67,782 posts)....areas of the hotels restricted to employees. They trespassed. They're lucky they weren't jailed for trespassing.
All the other things pointed out by you and the article did happen.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Snip: "Culinary has long been at the center of the Nevada caucuses. The union endorsed Barack Obama in 2008, a race where Clinton campaign staffers were accused of trying to infiltrate various casinos and resorts in Las Vegas."
cali
(114,904 posts)Was a minor thing that dws and.the Clinton campaign tried to make a big deal of. The campaign staff wearing union buttons were not pretending to be union members as Camp Smear surrogates tried to claim. I know just what Bernie meant when he said that HRC and PP are part of establishment. I agree with him. It was dumb of him to say, but big deal. Hillary threatened to only talk to white people in a meeting with BLM. That was dumb too. People say dumb things.
We know for a fact that Hillary is a dirty campaigner.
Response to cali (Reply #7)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...as soon as he stops beating his wife.
Nanjeanne
(4,950 posts)But I'm still waiting . . .
BUTTONGATE (seems to be nothing of any importance and resolved by the union so nothing there)
LOGOGATE (still waiting for anything more than a pic of a logo on an envelope to accuse Bernie Sanders of anything)
AARPGATE (see above)
QUOTEGATE (oh no, Bernie repeated what the Des Moines Register actually really totally said about him in print. The shame)
riversedge
(70,186 posts)Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)Sanders is allowed to use it.
Response to BainsBane (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)BainsBane
(53,031 posts)or facts actually matter in comparison to what is truly important: Bernie.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I'm going to K&R because I respect you (even if I don't respect the candidate you support).
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Certain other campaigns could learn a few things about integrity by taking his lead(That article is bullshit btw).
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Hell never catch up with her on that front
djean111
(14,255 posts)Exactly.
There is nothing Bernie can do, or be accused of doing, that would make Hillary (or O'Malley) palatable or an option. Nothing.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I wonder how the post Office handled those.
polly7
(20,582 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)the logo is covering up the original recipient address. If this is the "proof" that Newsweek was given that these flyers exist, whoever thought that was credible is a complete idiot.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Rather than what was inside, I would presume. But I get it, environmental groups, like unions and the AARP are all liars. Bernie and his campaign are the only ones anyone should ever believe and under no circumstances are they to be doubted. Faith must be absolute.
I do have a question. If the conservation group is so evil and duplicitous, like the culinary workers union, why would Bernie lower himself to have anything to do with them, or boast about how they rated him? That doesn't quite add up.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Or a sender address? Mailers like this are sent "naked," not enveloped. So. Where's the recipient's address?
Those are entirely your words, not mine. No surprise about your personal beliefs, I suppose.
Seems like projection on your part. have you read any of your own posts since May?
Who said anything about these organizations being "evil" or "duplicitous"? Isn't that what you're claiming about Senator Sanders?
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)If the mailers did not exist, they were lying. If they lied, doesn't that make them duplicitous?
Of course, for those of us who are not part of the one true faith, we hold out the possibility that they aren't lying.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)However, the evident mailer of the LCV issue is completely nonsensical, as I have explained to you. It's clearly designed to be a "naked" mailer, but there is no recipient address. Even mass-mailing box-stuffers have "current resident" plastered in that space. It's very possible that LCV is issuing its statement in regard to someone else's fraud.
As newsweek mentions, the AARP situation is not of Sanders' campaign "using the logo" but rather the campaign using pictures of people wearing T-shirts that sport a secondary logo. While they're perfectly right to say "we don't endorse candidates and please don't use our logo" your efforts to cast it as perfidious - "evil lying" to throw your words back at you - by the Sanders campaign seems pretty overblown.
Also you have a whole lot of nerve to try to pull that "one true faith" thing. Again, have you read any of your own posts since may?
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)However, the league requires permission to use its logo and only grants that to politicians whove been endorsed by the affiliated LCV Action Fund. In the presidential race, thats Clinton. According to a spokesman, the group has asked the Sanders campaign to not continue using its logo, and the campaign is looking into how it happened.
Both Newsweek and LCV treat the mailer as fact. You say it isn't because some picture you saw on DU wasn't to your liking. That would be an example of what I call a faith-based approach to politics. You assume all of these other entities are lying simply because what they say is unflattering to Bernie. You dismiss the use of AARP logos in photos disseminated by the campaign, despite the fact that the AARP has said it is not acceptable. Impersonating culinary workers doesn't even merit a mention from you. Yesterday on DU, we had threads of people assailing the union as lying.
My support for Clinton is hardly uncritical. In that sense, there is no comparison to Sanders supporters. I do not accuse everyone who criticizes, contradicts, or fails to vote for her of being liars or part of a conspiracy. I don't declare her to be the source of absolute truth. I am voting for her because she is the best qualified candidate and because I feel the other leading candidate wholly unprepared to execute the job of the presidency. Plus I don't believe him. I agree with Clinton on some things and disagree with her on others. I haven't shifted my views on any issue in order to accommodate hers.
One key difference I have with Sanders supporters is the rather unrealistic view of the power of a president, or the importance of a single man, for that matter. I don't believe Hillary Clinton--or any other politician-- more important or superior to the voters she seeks to represent. I don't believe the people don't have a right to criticize or challenge her. I'm not willing to suspend all understanding of the legislative process or the constitution in order to vest all hope in her proposed policies. Those are all areas in which I diverge significantly from many Sanders' supporters approach to their candidate
I haven't used the death of someone's loved one to score political points for Clinton; I haven't insisted that anyone who refuses to vote for her should be arrested after she is elected; I haven't insulted people on FB because they fail to endorse her; I never even insisted she was too important to be protested by Black Lives Matter. All I do is make phone calls and do a bit of canvassing.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I know that if they didn't, it wouldn't be the first time some group or other has issued a statement without full knowledge.
The image in question was actually provided by your fellows, promoting the "Sanders is a lying shit" conspiracy of the week. That image bears a sender's address and a postage mark, so it's clearly not enveloped. But it has no recipient address. it's not about whether or not it's "to my liking" it's that I've sent and received plenty of mail in my lifetime, and the lack of a recipient address is kind of strange to me.
Well, there is a difference between using the AARP logo, and using a picture of people who happen to be wearing a sub-logo on their clothing. However, I didn't dismiss it, BainsBane.
While they're perfectly right to say "we don't endorse candidates and please don't use our logo"
if you would kindly refrain from trying ot lie to me about things I've said, I would appreciate that.
Well, according to the union the issue was resolved. Apparently Sanders' people were not trying to misrepresent themselves, but there was a miscommunication going on regarding the buttons.
Oh, I know you haven't shifted views. I do know that you were supporting her back in April, before you started your "fifty reasons Bernie supporters made me support Clinton' campaign that we all had a good laugh at, so that you haven't changed your stances isn't really a surprise. But... I hate to tell you but right now? You are calling everyone who doesn't support Clinton a liar. You are accusing them of conspiracy. Hell, you've been calling sanders a liar up and down this thread.
strange then that so far the only lying I've seen comes from you, first telling me I said something I clearly did not, and then saying you aren't calling anyone liars.
This is a BanesBain I would like to see return to DU. Give her a ring.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)There has not been one scrap of evidence that shows Bernie's knowledge of or involvement in any of these poorly documented incidents.
What is very clear on the other side is that Hillary is doing and saying stuff that is highly questionable, especially coming from another Democratic candidate who expects us to believe she is in any ways "Progressive".
MeNMyVolt
(1,095 posts)I still blame it all on Weaver, but I'm beginning to have second thoughts on that.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)How'd that work out for her again?
Live by the smear, die by the smear.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)through Hillary Clinton's private email server.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I think that's a very interesting observation on Mr. Palmer's part. It's clear that he sees a very sharp distinction in the attitudes and actions of the supporters of the different candidates.
Note to Jury: These are not my words. I did not write them. I have excerpted the words of Bill Palmer, an editorialist. I have merely noted that in my opinion, his words are interesting to me. I've called attention to the fact that Mr. Palmer notes and describes the differences he's observed between the candidate's supporters. I have not attacked or smeared any candidate or candidate's supporters.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)from the Clinton Machine than from almost any other candidate. The Clintons have proven themselves absolutely ruthless against people who get in their way.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Thanks for the reminder ... it helps me to feel even MORE confident that Hillary will win the nomination!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Many Clinton supporters are secretly members of the Raelian cult. Some Clinton supporters eat at Chik-Fil-A. Several people say that clinton supporters sing Creed songs while in crowded airports.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)I love the smell of desperation in the morning.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Cha
(297,137 posts)"Yesterday the League of Conservation Voters accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of improperly using its logo on fundraising mailers after the group had endorsed his rival Hillary Clinton. Today the Nevada Culinary Union accused the Bernie Sanders campaign of disguising its staffers as if they were union members so they could campaign in restricted areas. These are serious liberal groups, and these are serious accusations that cant be ignored.
"On their own, they each could be written off as mere happenstance. But put them together, in light of the data breach no less, and it starts to spell out a pattern. Throw in Bernies dishonest lawsuit against the DNC to try to turn his own scandal into a phony conspiracy so he could fundraise on it, his sudden attacks on Bill Clinton, his comparison of Hillary Clinton to Dick Cheney, and his verbal attack on Planned Parenthood simply because it failed to endorse him, and suddenly we realized the past month has amounted to an undeniable pattern of dishonesty and outright cheating on the part of Bernie Sanders. So what now?"
More to come?
elias49
(4,259 posts)Response to BainsBane (Original post)
Post removed
jfern
(5,204 posts)I guess you're just hoping that people don't notice that the Obama administration has 100 FBI agents working full time investigating Hillary's e-mails and the Clinton Foundation?
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)to read such disingenuous smearing posts like this - connected with David Bowie's likeness. Gah. I've tried to stay out of the primary mud slinging, but I must say, this is such absolute rubbish.
On Edit - I'm a middle aged Wellstone Liberal Gen-X Feminist Woman who will caucus for Bernie in Minnesota.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)just when you think it can't get any more ridiculous!
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)ohnoyoudidnt
(1,858 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Gothmog
(145,129 posts)Ron Green
(9,822 posts)It's the good ol' gallery of good ol' Clinton supporters. C'mon, can't we get 40?
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)Or simply doing something else.
Reminder: BU is not the Democratic Party or America at large.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)jonestonesusa
(880 posts)But you probably won't.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)...good one!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:06 AM - Edit history (1)
And on and on and on...
If Hillary is the better candidate why aren't her supporters posting about the issues?
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)No one is considering arresting my candidate and charging him with federal crimes.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)it does not even make sense to believe the crap being slung to discredit bernie.
i am a woman of color and have marched, been gassed, been insulted by racist bigots, not promoted and paid less than coworkers not because i was able to do the job and run circles around others - but because of my race and my gender. there is no way in hell i would be supporting, donating to, and campaigning for bernie if any of this shit is going on. i can smell that bullshit a mile away and have not encountered any of it amongst bernie supporters. this topic of this thread smells like bullshit.
elias49
(4,259 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
CanonRay
(14,101 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)what they are capable of. Angry white men with entitlement issues is how they come across. BS foments this type of anger which then manifests itself with this type of cheating with impunity.
Great thread!
Orrex
(63,201 posts)Mail Message
On Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:43 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
His reps on TV are so lowbrow, he has to know
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1096533
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"angry white men": Referring to people by the color of their skin is racist, it's no different than disparaging AA Democrats by dismissing them as "angry black men".
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jan 30, 2016, 09:58 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm close to 100% certain that the alerting DUer either alerted on the wrong post or else didn't read the post before alerting on it. Seriously?
This angry white man says "Leave it."
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seems indistinguishable from the other ad hominem froth that is the lingua franca of GDP. If all messages of this ilk got hidden, it would raise the tone of discourse. Or maybe create a discourse. But as matters stand, I can't see why this deserves its own special hide.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)in the alert section. Truly unbelievable.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,950 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Logical
(22,457 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Thanks for all of the info.
Huge K&R