Newly Released Emails Confirm Clinton is to Blame for Libya Disaster

[Cheese Sandwich]

Clinton pushed and convinced Obama to destroy the Libyan government.

Now Libya is crawling with ISIS terrorists and there is a massive refugee crisis. Totally reckless and with complete disregard for the consequences. Mrs. Clinton practices all the worst tendencies of US foreign policy.


‘Bravo!’ Email Appears To Show Clinton’s Friend Congratulating Her on Bombing of Libya
The newly released email from Anne-Marie Slaughter belies Clinton’s attempts to distance herself from the military intervention

Hillary Clinton has spent much of her presidential campaign running away from her responsibility for the United States’ disastrous 2011 intervention in Libya. The February 19 release of more emails from her private server may make it harder for her to do so.

In an email with the subject “bravo!” sent on March 19, 2011—the day the United States and its allies began bombing Libya—Clinton confidant and former employee Anne-Marie Slaughter appears to praise then-Secretary of State Clinton for convincing a reluctant President Obama to take military action in Libya.

“I cannot imagine how exhausted you must be after this week, but I have NEVER been prouder of having worked for you,” writes Slaughter, who worked as an advisor to Clinton in the State Department from 2009 to February 3, 2011, and then remained a consultant to the policy planning bureau. “Turning POTUS around on this is a major win for everything we have worked for.” An earlier email release, which I reported on previously, showed that Slaughter had spent February 2011 imploring Clinton to involve the United States militarily in Libya, insisting that it would “change the image of the United States overnight.”

“Keep your fingers crossed and pray for a soft landing for everyone’s sake,” Clinton replies.

Other emails from earlier releases indicate that people close to Clinton gave her credit for the Libyan intervention. The day the UN Security Council approved a no-fly zone in Libya, Clinton’s unofficial adviser Sidney Blumenthal sent her an email saying: “No-fly! Brava! You did it!”
...

http://inthesetimes.com/article/18912/bravo-email-shows-anne-marie-slaughter-congratulating-clinton-on-libya

[Cali_Democrat]

1. This email will be the game-changer Sanders supporters are looking for!

[Cheese Sandwich]

6. Maybe if the TV news wasn't a department of the Clinton campagin

they might actually report on this stuff.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Where have you been?

TV news is becoming extinct.

Their ratings have been steadily declining for years.

[Cheese Sandwich]

30. They still seem to have a lot of influence

[Duval]

46. Yes, they certainly do.

[agracie]

25. Ain't that the truth !!!

[NWCorona]

8. Game changer? No.

It only shows her lust for blood.

[Cheese Sandwich]

98. ouch.

Something like that

[reformist2]

101. Wow, the idea that she "turned Obama around on this" means Hillary *owns* the Libya policy.

[NWCorona]

104. Have you read her book?

I have and Hillary clearly takes credit for Libya.

PS, I didn't literally mean "owns"

[Cheese Sandwich]

111. Hillary's foreign policy disasters should be a huge topic in this election.

It was supposed to be her strength but that fell apart like a wet napkin.

[hifiguy]

15. How sweet. You think innocent people being slaughtered

is something to laugh about.

[think]

54. Naw. It's pretty well known she sucks at handling foreign policy....

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

74. It's all cumulative. And Trump will use this.

Hilary is doomed to lose. The only hope is Bernie, but nobody seems to care.

[delrem]

86. No. I think HRC will win. I think she'll set the ME further on fire.

She's in effect promised to do everything the neocons ask of her. She has so far, so there's no doubt she'll continue to do it.

I don't care what you think. I don't care that you laugh at it, like she laughs at it.

It's real people she will slaughter. It's real people who will flee as refugees from the wars her paymasters will profit from. But they aren't glamorous - not like Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump and Kim Kardashian. And they're Muslim, Arab, to boot. So they mean nothing to you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. You laugh at your own peril

by the way are you laughing at this?



How about this? ISIS has said they want to attack the US.

http://time.com/4114805/former-cia-director-isis-will-strike-america/

[Orrex]

97. .

[delrem]

99. These people don't worry about anything like that, or care about anything like that.

They figure that they're invulnerable US Americans, and they can destroy any country that they want for fat profits on the munitions used. Then set up the apparatus to plunder natural resources for fat profits (in Benghazi, natch, the oil port, to solidify their hold on the massive oil fields, and not Tripoli where they couldn't give a shit what happens), while setting up no-bid gov't funded "reconstruction" scams to pay into their already fat dividends.

These people are amoral. They don't even consider the lives lost - they being "just arabs" or "just gooks" or .... anyway, not real people living in a real world and suffering at their hand, at the hand of their country and of their utterly corrupt politics.

Except for the hope coming from Bernie Sanders I wouldn't read DU. If these people win, I'm so totally gone, nadin. So totally gone.
This place will be freeperville locked in a pretzel. In that case hopefully a better forum will arise from the ashes.

[closeupready]

151. +1 to everything you've posted in this thread.

+1000, more like it.

[Katashi_itto]

2. She is going to be an epic disaster

[hifiguy]

13. Of Hindenburg/Titanic proportions.

IF she even makes it to the WH. She could easily lead the Party to the kind of shellacking the Repubs got in 1964, including all the way down-ticket.

[Katashi_itto]

16. She put rhe US on A fire sale

[NWCorona]

3. She owns Libya

That sad thing is that blacks in that country are now facing horrific abuses and nobody talks about that.

[MrMickeysMom]

62. Therefore, she owns ISIS...

Congratulations, for owning ISIS, expect somebody else will pay with their life.... Many have already.... Many more will.

[delrem]

105. Of course she owns ISIS. Like the House of Saud owns ISIS.

Like the House of Saud invested in the Clinton Foundation, and cooked up some very sweet military investment deals with some of the world's most corrupt politicians.

The one constant for Hillary Rodham Clinton doesn't seem to be "choice" and a kind of "feminism", though that's her "feminist" war cry. It is war and war profiteering, the deregulation of investment capital, and the privatizing of EVERYTHING.

Her message is the total opposite of that of SisterSong and I wonder why this has hardly been mentioned on DU.

The contradiction between her claim to feminist leadership and fact on the ground.

It's all David Brock, never the actual issues, even about matters of life, reproduction and health. It's always like the progressive movement is forever reacting to ratfuckers, rather than making the case, and I think SisterSong makes a good case against HRC's politics, even if it is a case made en passant, as a kind of no-brainer.

[RobertEarl]

4. War is good for Wall Street

She represented Wall Street. She is for war and war profiteering. Libya is a feather in her cap and meant lots of Wall Street support.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

79. And how does that make you feel about Clinton supporter?

It makes me want to vomit. We are being sabotaged by our own. At least, I always thought they were. It's a fine kettle of fish. (I love that saying! )

[RobertEarl]

83. well

3/4ths of the country feel safe with nuke missiles ready to be launched in seconds via a button being pushed.

And I figure H wants to hold the button. See what it feels like in her hand.

So, fuck yeah, I'm glad I am an old man.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

84. How old? I'm 61 and that's not old enough!

My Dad is 91, bless his heart. He has some kind of dementia, so he can be blissfully unaware of all this. I envy him to some extent.

[Broward]

5. Hillary Clinton, wrong on everything.

[senz]

100. True.

I can't think of anything she has done right.

[restorefreedom]

7. hillary: making isis what it is today in libya, syria, iraq, and beyond. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

31. She doesn't get enough credit for that

[restorefreedom]

37. she aims to change that imo. nt

[hifiguy]

9. She's a Kissinger fangirl.

Henry the K loved nothing more than bloodshed, as long the blood was leaking out of people halfway around the world. He must be so proud of her!

[tk2kewl]

11. Some of her supporters on DU would like us to believe SOS just does as POTUS says

i.e. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=334579

Your OP would appear to contradict this claim.

I'm interested to know who all comprise the "we" that wanted to flip the POTUS

[delrem]

109. A problem is her private mail server, to do SOS business, excluded the gov't apparatus.

A second problem is that because she's the spouse of a former POTUS, she has insiders to help her who've been there long before Obama.

Obama's first term with Hillary Rodham Clinton as SOS was a time of war, of a neocon escalation of war almost exactly timetabled according as General Wesley Clark
“We’re going to take out 7 countries in 5 years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Iran..”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/we-re-going-to-take-out-7-countries-in-5-years-iraq-syria-lebanon-libya-somalia-sudan-iran/5166

THERE IS NOTHING TO DOUBT ABOUT THIS.
THERE IS NOTHING TO DOUBT ABOUT WHAT SHE HAS DONE.

Obama's second term with John Kerry has been just ... extraordinarily ... better. Efforts made for rapprochement with Iran. Iran! Imagine that. OK, forget about that and vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton. Efforts made for rapprochement with Cuba. Cuba! Imagine that. OK, forget about that and vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton, who took out Honduras.

[dana_b]

116. Excellent points

And thanks for making them.

[datguy_6]

12. Bravo indeed! ISIS needed another safehaven...

Just another fine example of her War Hawkish impulses...

[amborin]

163. +1000

[nichomachus]

14. I would say that she is a disaster waiting to happen

But she has already happened. She has been a horrible Secretary of State. I can't imagine the mess she would make of the world as president.

[kgnu_fan]

17. kick

[Wilms]

18. Nice to get a note like that from someone named Slaughter.

Just a random observation.

[leveymg]

19. I agree with Slaughter. Serial regime change is exhausting. HRC deserves a rest

And the credit due for her strenuous efforts. I think Hillary has earned paid retirement in Libya, Syria or Iraq. Her choice.

[wendylaroux]

20. bravo H!!!!

you turned the potus around!!

[Arazi]

21. She is drenched in blood from this to her cluster bomb support

And wants even more war

[rbrnmw]

22. ....

[zappaman]

23. Guess things aren't looking so rosy for Bernie today.

What with all the bullshit being spewed by his "supporters" today...

[rbrnmw]

28. I know it's sad

[1StrongBlackMan]

154. Perhaps I missed the "fill in the blank" class ...

doesn't it puzzle/trouble anyone that here is a (truly) context-less email, where the writer offers the context through assertion?

I guess not!

[thereismore]

24. Wars have consequences. She loves "No-flies". Recipe for everything, incl. starving people in Syria.

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. They always want to blow up other countries without regard to the consequences

[agracie]

26. K&R

[chillfactor]

27. you guys really are stretching it.....

good grief...what next? Hillary was responsible for the start of World War II?

[Cheese Sandwich]

29. Good grief...

You must be one who refuses to acknowledge facts presented directly in front of your nose.

[Bradical79]

39. What's your interpretation of the email? -nt

[ghostsinthemachine]

32. Everyone wanted to play in Libya (and grab up their resources)

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/john-mccain-world-attack-map-syria

So this IS NOT going to play in the General. The Reich Wing is all for "bombing the shit out of them and over throwing dictators" so...

The simple truth is the world is fucked up huge right now. I think it was planned out. All over oil. Libya, Venezuela, Ukraine and Syria, all oil rich, all with friendly agreements with Russia, or are being ravaged in order to keep those agreements.....

[UglyGreed]

33. New Hillary Clinton Emails Show She Wanted Credit for Libya Intervention in 2011. Now She Doesn’t.

The latest tranche of Clinton emails recalls her pivotal role in the U.S. intervention.
BY BRANKO MARCETIC

ow that Libya has descended into chaos, Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton is at pains to dispel the notion that, as secretary of state, she led the U.S. intervention that toppled dictator Muammar Gaddafi in 2011.

Yet the latest tranche of emails from Clinton’s private server, released by the State Department on October 30, shows there’s one individual who would strongly object to those efforts: the Hillary Clinton of 2011 and 2012.

A report in June by the New York Times revealed that in August 2011, Clinton’s advisors had urged her to take credit for what was then seen as a military success in Libya. Now, the newly released emails show that the former secretary of state was herself intent on emphasizing her key role in the affair—and that her team used cozy relationships with the media to help her do so.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/18592/new-clinton-emails-expose-collaboration-with-media-on-benghazi-coverag1

[Cheese Sandwich]

34. That's interesting thanks.

[AzDar]

35. K & R

[amborin]

38. Hillary's reckless bad judgement is the reason ISIS freely roams in Libya & Syria

[Cheese Sandwich]

40. Sad but true.

Certainly on Libya. On Syria she played a big role I think. She did push Obama to arm the Syrian rebels.

[Tarc]

41. A Khadaffy-less Libya is a better Libya

So, cool?

[Cheese Sandwich]

42. Nice to see the Republicans don't have a monopoly on low information voters.

[Tarc]

43. Nice to see that there's Democrats who still know how to deal with foreign affairs

Rater than pull a Neville Chamberlain.

[Cheese Sandwich]

44. Libya is in chaos. A failed state crawling with ISIS, Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups

Congratulations tough guy. We came, we saw, etc.

[Cheese Sandwich]

48. What is this, Neo-Con Underground?

Breaking a few eggs. You're talking about people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. So we go from a problem that was contained

to one that might byte us in the ass. Got it!

[Tarc]

64. It was not contained, otherwise it would not be a problem

Camp Sanders is as weak in foreign policy comprehension as the candidate himself...

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Yes, it was contained

and this is not a lack of reading comprehension on my part. I will be as snarky as you are. You don't read the elite media I read. Get a sub to foreing policy.

By the way, this had nada to do with terrorism

Cozy up kid

Hillary Emails Reveal True Motive for Libya Intervention

The New Year’s Eve release of over 3,000 new Hillary Clinton emails from the State Department has CNN abuzz over gossipy text messages, the “who gets to ride with Hillary” selection process set up by her staff, and how a “cute” Hillary photo fared on Facebook.

But historians of the 2011 NATO war in Libya will be sure to notice a few of the truly explosive confirmations contained in the new emails: admissions of rebel war crimes, special ops trainers inside Libya from nearly the start of protests, Al Qaeda embedded in the U.S. backed opposition, Western nations jockeying for access to Libyan oil, the nefarious origins of the absurd Viagra mass rape claim, and concern over Gaddafi’s gold and silver reserves threatening European currency.

Hillary’s Death Squads
A March 27, 2011, intelligence brief [archived here] on Libya, sent by long time close adviser to the Clintons and Hillary’s unofficial intelligence gatherer, Sidney Blumenthal, contains clear evidence of war crimes on the part of NATO-backed rebels. Citing a rebel commander source “speaking in strict confidence” Blumenthal reports to Hillary [emphasis mine]:

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/

By the way, I READ quite a few of these emails myself. Some are still up at the FOIA room... some are up more heavily redacted. Something about classification.

[Tarc]

89. Agan, reading comprehension and a basic unawareness of reality

Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, U.S. State Department, Libyan political scientist Mansour Kikhia, Mohamed Eljahmi, co-founder of the American Libyan Freedom Alliance, Reuters: Factbox: Gaddafi rule marked by abuses, rights groups say

Human Rights Watch: World Report 2012: Libya

Physicians for Human Rights: Mass Graves Reveal Evidence of Abuses Under Gaddafi


This is the guy you think should have been given a pat on the back and left in place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Well let me see child, I will take the EMAILS, aka a primary source

I BOTHERED reading over your snakiness. But hey, you are working on depressing the vote in November with that Tactic... GOOD MOVE sparky.

None said he was a boy scout, but when you embed al Qaida with our allies, this has nada to do with terrorism. He was CONTAINED, LEARN TO READ. I GAVE A FUCKING LINK with that.

Among other things, his predecessor was one of our puppets

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/23/libya-before-and-after-gaddafi

Did I mention he was just as ugly and nasty?

Now here is a tad MORE COMPLEXITY than I expect you can handle

The overthrow of Gaddafi & Co was far from being a straightforward revolution against tyranny, but the West’s latest military intervention can’t be debunked as being simply about oil

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n22/hugh-roberts/who-said-gaddafi-had-to-go

By the way, that came out BEFORE the Emails came out.

and here from VICE

t appears that Clinton's office too was awash in Libya rumors. Nearly a third of all the emails she received on the security and political situation in Libya during her tenure as Secretary of State came from Blumenthal, a longtime Clinton associate who was not formally employed by the State Department. He was on the payroll of the Clinton Foundation, bringing in $10,000 a month as a consultant, while pursuing his own business interests in Libya. Blumenthal's emails to Clinton now have been made public in response to a FOIA lawsuit filed by VICE News.

https://news.vice.com/article/libyan-oil-gold-and-qaddafi-the-strange-email-sidney-blumenthal-sent-hillary-clinton-in-2011

By the way I read a fair amount of them. This was about the gold dinar, the western economy, and of course, somewhat about oil and control. You may not want to listen to this, but human rights had butkis to do about it,. though they are always a nice talking point taht gullible people swallow whole.

The emails are up at the foia site

https://foia.state.gov/search/results.aspx

You can either search for the truth, it is there, it is not the best of indexed sites, but it is there, Or you can keep prattling along and be the clown of the class, about this being about terrorism and human rights. Really, at this point this is quite honestly willful ignorance.

Oh and by the way, this war has been an absolute human rights disaster. While you show me documents from the past, here you go



And that ISIS you seem to ignore has pledged to attack the US.

http://time.com/4114805/former-cia-director-isis-will-strike-america/

And you know who I will blame for that partly... yes, you guessed it... Clinton and her failed policy in Libya, Syria and other places, Just keeping it real.

[Bradical79]

59. Step 1 implies there's a step 2...

Your omlete recipe seems to involve throwing some eggs onto a firepit and walking away.

[jeff47]

53. You're really claiming an Libya with ISIS bases is better?

You know, the group Clinton claimed was our greatest threat? She gave them half of Libya.

[Tarc]

55. six of one, half a dozen of the other

[jeff47]

58. Well, Qaddafi was contained in Libya. ISIS isn't.

Sounds like they aren't quite the same.

Again, Clinton gave half of a country to the group she claims is our greatest threat, and you're claiming it doesn't matter.

So is Clinton wrong about "our greatest threat"?

[Tarc]

61. The point is whooshing over your head, I'm afraid

A dictator was taken out. Full stop, period, end of sentence.

Problems that arise after that are dealt with just then; after that.

I'm beginning to see why foreign policy is regarded as Sanders' weakest area...his followers are in lockstep.

[Bradical79]

68. Now you're just trolling

You couldn't possibly be that stupid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. You might want to read this link now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1386975

[Arazi]

57. What The Fuck??

HRC destroyed the most progressive and prosperous North African nation. It's now a living hell hole wracked by religious extremism, civil war and abject poverty.

I don't care who you support, the unbelievable chaos there is shameful. Utterly shameful.

This myopia about HRC's foreign policy on the part of HRC supporters is incredibly disturbing - it's a small window on what she'll unleash as President and it's a horror, yet you all are completely blasé.

[Tarc]

88. "the most progressive and prosperous North African nation" ?

Let's see who we find more believable; "Arazi", an anonymous forum poster, or

Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, U.S. State Department, Libyan political scientist Mansour Kikhia, Mohamed Eljahmi, co-founder of the American Libyan Freedom Alliance, Reuters: Factbox: Gaddafi rule marked by abuses, rights groups say

Human Rights Watch: World Report 2012: Libya

Physicians for Human Rights: Mass Graves Reveal Evidence of Abuses Under Gaddafi


Please, for the love of God, Buddha, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster, don't ever embarrass yourself this badly again.

[Arazi]

95. In comparison to what?? Fucking Sudan??

this is a third world AFRICAN nation.

In comparison to its neighbors it was a fucking Paradise.

Women had equal rights, there was universal health care, the highest literacy rate, a functioning society etc etc etc

Make no mistake Qadaffi was a monster but he kept that place together and actually advanced the society by several huge degrees.

We completely fucked that up. Completely.

For the love of God, Buddha and the FSM get some realpolitik experience on a global scale and don't you ever DARE try that shit again

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. I just gave this person a link to the FOIA room

not that I expect her to read any of it.

[Bradical79]

67. Clearly it's not -nt

[bvar22]

146. Before Hillary, Libya was the most advanced country in North Africa.

Women could own money and property, could sell property and run retail stores, drive cars, wear blue jeans, vote, attend University, ....basically had equal rights...

but not anymore!
The rebels fundamentalists with known ties to AlQaeda that Hillary "helped" with her Freedom Bombs have instituted Sharia Law in Libya.

The above is a billboard posted all over Libya dictating how women must now dress.
As a (so called) Champion of Women's Rights, has Hillary apologized or even lamented the problems she has caused for the Women of Libya? She set them back 1000 years.


Wall Street and the IMF wanted Gaddafi GONE,
and Hilary did their dirty work.

” For all his dictatorial megalomania, Gaddafi is a committed pan-African - a fierce defender of African unity. Libya was not in debt to international bankers. It did not borrow cash from the International Monetary Fund for any "structural adjustment". It used oil money for social services - including the Great Man Made River project, and investment/aid to sub-Saharan countries. Its independent central bank was not manipulated by the Western financial system. All in all a very bad example for the developing world.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD27Ak01.html

"Pan-African means Africa for Africans...NOT the Western Banks or the IMF.


So you just go back to sleep demonstrating exactly how much you care about these millions of people and the harm we have caused them.

[elmac]

47. It was a gamble,maybe she thought three's the charm

after the Iraq, Afghan fiasco but three turned out to be a disaster. In the end it was Obama's decision, he owns it.

[Duval]

49. K&R. nt

[George II]

50. Hillary Clinton will still win the Democratic nomination and be elected President.

[think]

63. Ya. People love a tough leader who isn't afraid to use the military even if it the wrong thing to do

Whoops....

[Politicalboi]

80. Dream on

She will lose and NEVER be president if we're lucky.

[amborin]

52. yes, and she is to blame for ISIS now in Libya and Syria, and the ME in chaos nt

[desmiller]

56. K & R

....Jesus

[shenmue]

60. She is also to blame for the War of 1812

[PatrynXX]

65. on the Experience question

Yeah Bernie Sanders has much more experience than Hillary and clearly better judgment

[WillyT]

66. HUGE K & R !!!

[tarheelsunc]

70. I must have made a wrong turn and ended up at Freeperville. eom

[Enthusiast]

71. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

[Recoverin_Republican]

72. bulletin: PROOF HRC caused WWII... yeah, it's true, Yes it is. LOL!

[notadmblnd]

90. You left out an I.

Add another I after WWII and then your statement will be correct if she happens to become CIC.

[silvershadow]

73. Bookmarking for later. nt

[hollowdweller]

75. What were they working for????????????

She says turning around Obama on "this" is a win for "everything" they worked for????

What exactly is their goal? What is the everything part?

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. From other material, yes I read it

part of this was about gold... and the gold dinar. Also establishing western dominance in North Africa.

NATO figures up there with this, as well as France and England to be specific, Italy, not so much, even though Libya was a client state at one time.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

76. People are content to vote for incompetence

[Cheese Sandwich]

113. Maybe they just haven't followed this issue

[Eko]

77. Did I miss something?

There is S.RES.85 link http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.RES.85:
Where it calls for a no fly zone with Sanders as a cosponsor on March 1st 2011 that is after this email. Whats the problem?

[Recoverin_Republican]

78. Breaking: Hillary Clinton KILLED CHRIST!!! ... It's true --- Yeah, uh-huh.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511387130

[Eko]

81. They just hid that on you.

Some people cant take a joke.

[Vattel]

85. She was a complete failure as SOS.

[Cheese Sandwich]

87. Foreign policy was supposed to be her strength.

Bernie exposed that was a fraud and it didn't take much effort either. That left Hillary with literally no issues left to campaign on in the primary. Except guns which was kind of a limited advantage for her. So then it was nothing but smears and lies from then on out.

[Vattel]

103. yup

[KoKo]

91. Hillary on Gadaffi: "We Came....We Saw.....He Died!...A Hearty Laugh...

Everyone has seen the Video.

[ghostsinthemachine]

102. Not a game changer.

Everyone wanted to see Mubarak ousted. This will be especially helpful in the GE when she did exactly what the reps wanted done.

[Cheese Sandwich]

106. What country are you talking about and why

Egypt?

[ghostsinthemachine]

107. Im lame.

that's all. Tired long day got my despots mixed up.

[Cheese Sandwich]

108. Oh Gotcha

That happens sometimes

[John Poet]

110. K & R

We already knew this, really.

[Cheese Sandwich]

112. That's true I think it was in her book but this confirms it some more

[dana_b]

114. So much for all of her "extensive experience"!

Seriously - if THIS is the kind of decision making and experience that she is running on, no thanks!!

[Cheese Sandwich]

115. She's the "most qualified" at creating terrorists

[dana_b]

119. Yep!

I cannot believe that Bernie would go that route.

And the people of Libya, Syria, etc. have had to suffer tremendously because of these decisions. It's so wrong and I hope that the voters hear this information and can make their decisions accordingly so that we can try to prevent future torment to these countries and people.

[Cheese Sandwich]

120. In this thread many Clinton loyalists still defending these policy disasters

[dana_b]

125. How "Democratic" of them

[randome]

117. The international community was practically begging us to intervene in Libya.

To say this was all Clinton's doing is very short-sighted and betrays one's prejudices.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?_r=0

In the throes of the Arab Spring, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi was facing a furious revolt by Libyans determined to end his quixotic 42-year rule. The dictator's forces were approaching Benghanzi, the crucible of the rebellion, and threatening a blood bath. France and Britain were urging the United States to join them in a military campaign to halt Colonel Qaddafi's troops, and now the Arab League, too, was calling for action.

It was a very complex and violent situation but if you're reading into it that it was nothing but 'adventurism' on Clinton's part, I think you are selectively seeing what you want.

Maybe it wasn't handled well, maybe it made ISIS stronger, all good points, but, again, the international community was practically begging us to intervene. It is not as simple as Clinton simply deciding one morning she wanted to kill some people, or to bully then.

Even this NYT article, critical of her, states that much.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Cheese Sandwich]

118. Turned out awesome huh?

[randome]

121. No, it did not. That's not the point.

The alternative seems to be to have done nothing when the international community was begging us to help. All I'm saying is things are not as simple as some here have made it out to be.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Cheese Sandwich]

123. The point is reckless use of military power makes things much worse

And that's a major theme in Hillary Clinton's record from Iraq to Syria to Libya

[randome]

126. How do you know it was 'reckless'? Were you sitting in on the deliberations with the Arab League,...

Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2016, 08:12 PM - Edit history (1)

...France and Britain?

It didn't turn out well, there's no denying that, but there's no telling what kind of 'bloodbath' Qaddafi was threatening at the time, either.

It's easy to play what-if? games but since the international community was pressing for military intervention, I don't see how you can call it 'reckless'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Cheese Sandwich]

127. Because the result is chaos, terrorism, a huge refugee crisis, and Africa flooded with US weapons

If the answer to anything is oh you can't know because you weren't in the room, then the people can never have any democratic say in foreign policy because we will never be in that room.

That's just another way of saying trust us always.

[randome]

129. The result otherwise would have been chaos, terrorism and Qaddafi's promised 'bloodbath'.

Maybe that would have been preferable, I don't know, I wasn't there to make these decisions.

And 'trust us always' doesn't apply when we know France, Britain and the Arab League were asking us to intervene.

In the case of Iraq, even with a 'coalition of the willing', there was never any evidence that Saddam was a threat to us. In the case of Libya, however, we definitely knew something horrible was about to play out.

Besides, Clinton didn't order Qaddafi's elimination, it was Obama. All Clinton did was react to what the international community was requesting and relayed her advice to him.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Cheese Sandwich]

131. Qaddafi was a bad dude but he was no threat

Just like Saddam in Iraq. Blowblack.

[NWCorona]

133. The difference in Libya is night and day

Whether you agreed with the government or not and I didn't. They had one of the highest standards of living in the ME.

[randome]

159. The people he was about to 'bloodbath' might have disagreed that things were so good.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[NWCorona]

160. And that is a valid point

By know means do I think Bernie is without flaws.

[EndElectoral]

122. What does "Turning POTUS around on this" mean?

[Cheese Sandwich]

124. Convincing him to pursue a policy of regime change through force in Libya

[EndElectoral]

128. So the assertion is Obama was reluctant to pursue regime change and the SOS "turned him around"?

[Cheese Sandwich]

135. Exactly. She persuaded him to destroy Libya and now it is a terrorist chaos.

There is a massive refugee crisis, the place is crawling with ISIS and Al Qaeda, unspeakable atrocities are being committed, and US weapons are escaping to terrorists all across Africa and destabilizing other countries.

The president was wary. The secretary of state was persuasive. But the ouster of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi left Libya a failed state and a terrorist haven.

link

As the secretary of state in 2011, Hillary Clinton pressed the Obama administration to intervene militarily in Libya, with consequences that have gone far beyond the fall of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

link

[EndElectoral]

137. But, fundamentally, do people care?

[Cheese Sandwich]

156. I honestly think this may be Hillary's greatest weakness.

Foreign policy and national security was supposed to be a great strength. It was a fraud. She's got no arguments left.

There is no evidence she is more electable in a general election than Sanders. Her only remaining argument is gun control and that is very weak because truthfully Sanders was a gun control moderate but leaning liberal with a D- from a NRA.

She has nothing.

Libya is the one foreign policy disaster that Americans seem to know anything about.

[Darb]

139. What a simplistic crock

Damn, you have boiled it all down, nice and simple for a moron I see. too bad the American people aren't morons. Well, at least not all of them, hopefully a majority of voters anyway. Now tell me how you would have won the super bowl if you were Carolina's QB.

[Cheese Sandwich]

155. The facts really are not in dispute. It's in the New York Times. Hillary bragged about it.

Hillary Clinton talked Obama into taking down the Libyan government when he was very skeptical.

She took credit for it and bragged about it.

Now we have a massive refugee crisis, the place is crawling with terrorists, unspeakable atrocities are being committed, and US weapons are escaping to terrorists all across Africa and destabilizing other countries.

The president was wary. The secretary of state was persuasive. But the ouster of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi left Libya a failed state and a terrorist haven.

link

As the secretary of state in 2011, Hillary Clinton pressed the Obama administration to intervene militarily in Libya, with consequences that have gone far beyond the fall of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

link

http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000004216623/hillary-clintons-legacy-in-libya.html

[AzDar]

130. Baffling to me when people tout her 'experience'... she's made HORRIFIC mistakes. Unfit.

[sabrina 1]

132. Saw that email before. Obama should have stood up to the neocons, it was clear to most

people that all they wanted was to check off another of the seven ME/African nations listed on the PNAC document.

But many of us suspected the pressure was coming from neocons. He should have gone to the people and explained why he did not want to destabilize another nation because he surely knew, we did though we were fiercely attacked here for saying so, that it was going to be a disaster.

Now see the refugee crisis all over Europe and the very NATO allies who WANTED these awful policies in Syria and Libya AND the Ukr, are refusing to accept responsibility for the results of their disastrous policies..

[Cheese Sandwich]

134. I honestly think naming Clinton as Secretary of State was Obama's greatest error

His record is mixed but some major disasters can be traced back to Hillary.

[applegrove]

136. The Libyans did not want the West to be peacekeepers

or police after they got rid of Gadaffy. What was the State Department to do?

[Cheese Sandwich]

140. They should have used the money to fix the water pipes in Michigan and Ohio instead

[Darb]

138. Another collosal shark jump.

If you guys keep jumping so many sharks it will lose its effect. A word to the wise.

[Cheese Sandwich]

141. This is the most legitimate issue possible. Hillary's foreign policy record is a major FAIL

[Darb]

142. You're joking aren't you, you kidder.

Hehehehehe

[Cheese Sandwich]

143. Care to explain how Libya is a success?

[Darb]

144. Care to explain how Libya is the entire world?

The Arab spring was really unprecedented and unparralled in its scope and meaning? None of this is over and it will take years to play out.

Should the West have let Gaddaffi slaughter the opposition? Is ISIS Hillary's fault too?

I am certain that if a Gaddafi bloodbath had taken place you would be blaming Hillary for that too. Only Berneis and Baggers are squealing about Libya. Be careful, you might start being compared to them, and that ain't pretty. Baggers are fucking stupid and I know many.

[Cheese Sandwich]

145. We had to destroy the village to save it?

WRONG. We should have used that money to repair the water pipes in Michigan and Ohio.

Now instead the entire region is crawling with terrorists: ISIS and Al Qaeda. There is a massive refugee crisis. Africa is being flooded with American weapons, destabilizing other countries. Bloodbath NOT prevented. They made the situation worse. Hillary took credit for Libya when it seemed to be going well before it blew up in her face and now she regrets it.

It's not just Libya. It's the same failed policy from Iraq and from Syria. I would say some people never learn, but that would be too generous, because it's most likely they did understand the consequences and just didn't care.

[Darb]

147. One person's opinion.

The terrorists were already there (mid east). Bush created ISIS in 2005 around Falluja and it spread from there, with our money. The whole ISIS mess goes back to the invasion and only the Baggers blame Obama and Hillary.

The Arab Spring started the overthrow of dictators and the bad guys moved in. It is complicated, very, very complicated, but Hillary does not own it, she is not to blame.

Stop saying it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

150. This is based all on facts out of the New York Times 2 part special report

Hillary Clinton talked Obama into taking down the Libyan government when he was very skeptical.

She took credit for it and bragged about it on national television.

The facts really are not in dispute.


There is a massive refugee crisis, the place is crawling with ISIS and Al Qaeda, unspeakable atrocities are being committed, and US weapons are escaping to terrorists all across Africa and destabilizing other countries.

The president was wary. The secretary of state was persuasive. But the ouster of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi left Libya a failed state and a terrorist haven.

link

As the secretary of state in 2011, Hillary Clinton pressed the Obama administration to intervene militarily in Libya, with consequences that have gone far beyond the fall of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

link

http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000004216623/hillary-clintons-legacy-in-libya.html

[jeepers]

149. The bloodbath did take place and Hillary did take credit

[Ferd Berfel]

148. Just one more set of hearings and indictments

that the Reich will hurl at her.

Lots of ways to impeach a new prez 'eh. Bet they can't wait to get started.

[Cheese Sandwich]

157. I think they already said they plan to do just that.

[Ferd Berfel]

161. THe only issue will be the Timing of it.

Probably after it's too late for us if the DNC is successful is screwing Bernie.

[peacebird]

152. One of her supporters laughed at me when I said she lacked judgement, I think this proves me right.

Like Bernie said before IWR vote, you have to think ahead about what all the likely scenarios are before striking. He was prescient about what followed.

She should have learned from her previous monumental failures of judgement before pushing the neocon agenda of bombing libya. She would be a disaster larger than GWB as president.

[Cheese Sandwich]

153. I hope it was just a case a horrible judgement, and not something worse like

she knew what would happen but just didn't care.

You never know. She does take advice from Henry Kissinger so it's conceivable to me they knew Libya would fall apart.

[whistler162]

158. And the sinking of the Titanic!

[Cheese Sandwich]

162. This Libya thing is true though