Uh-oh...‘Bernie or Bust’: Clinton can’t count on Sanders’ supporters in November

[BigBearJohn]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/1/hillary-clinton-cant-count-on-bernie-sanders-suppo/

WASHINGTON TIMES:

The movement is called “Bernie or Bust,” and it means just that: If Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont loses the Democratic presidential nomination, a group of his supporters will either write in his name in the general election or consider casting their ballot for a Republican. The one thing they certainly won’t do: Vote for Hillary Clinton.

More than 50,000 people already have signed up at the Revolt Against Plutocracy, pledging to vote for the Green Party candidate in the general election or write in Mr. Sanders’ name if Mrs. Clinton wins the Democratic nomination. Other groups, such as Grassroots Action for Bernie, are taking to social media, using Facebook and Twitter to try to get the “Bernieorbust” hashtag trending.

Even Sanders supporters not tied to the movement, or unaware of its existence, seem to agree with its principles, making one thing clear: The Democratic National Committee and Mrs. Clinton will have a hard time attracting many of Mr. Sanders’ voters.

“I will not be voting for Clinton if Sanders does not win the nomination,” said Jon Clemens, a Sanders supporter from Hartford, Connecticut. “She has done nothing to earn my vote, and the Democratic Party should not assume that she will simply absorb Sanders’ supporters. Clinton has only ‘evolved’ to progressive political stances when public polling indicated to her that it was politically advantageous to do so. She is disingenuous, has little integrity and lacks vision.”

___________________________________________________________________________________
And if you don't like Washington Times, how about DailyKos:

SEE: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/29/1491714/-The-Bernie-or-Bust-Mindset-Sprouted-From-Organic-Integrity-Not-Rebel-Defiance-or-DNC-Disrespect

The Bernie or Bust Mindset Sprouted From Organic Integrity: Not Rebel Defiance or DNC Disrespect

“Bernie or Bust,” or “Revolt Against Plutocracy,” is not an orchestrated mass rebel movement to obstruct anything or hurt anyone or to damage and divide the the DNC. It is an ethics-driven way of thinking and being that evolved organically out of individuals simultaneously acknowledging their organic integrity and/or critical thinking skills. Countless individuals, simply decided, one by one, on their own, “Enough is enough!” It is direct byproduct of being true to ones values.

The more I think about it, the more the Vote Blue (or else) mantra sounds like a programmed order dictated to a herd of subservient sheep from a cult leader (in the DNC’s case; Debbie Wasserman Schultz) to ignore our moral compass, to compromise our integrity so we can think like her. The DNC wants independent thinking types to toss aside their own unique, inner signals, progressive visions and squelch our impassioned concerns for issues that matter, in order to give way to the lobbyists (that line their pocketbooks) to continue to allow our nation being influenced by their corporate-dictated, guilt-trip programming. Selling out ones soul does not deliver any redeeming or noble benefits, it just intensifies the growing, collective dread that our country can never be great again. Or rather a country that works for everyone. George H.W. Bush issued the executive order in 1992 that essentially gave Monsanto carte blanche to adulterate our foods (incl., engineering the herbicide into kernels of corn) with their technology, solely to boost profits.

INTEGRITY IS NOT HIP

Integrity is not hip. If you do not believe me, imagine telling your co-workers you are serious when you say to them with candid conviction that even if someone were to offer you $137,000 cash, you still would not take even a single bite of a McDonald’s Big Mac. Tell them your values are not negotiable because your moral compass is a fully functioning one. Look into their eyes. Watch them troll you. The outer-directed masses are covertly envious of those rare few that operate organically from inner signals.

[wyldwolf]

1. More right wing sources from Bernie Supporters

[Orsino]

50. This story doesn't make the case promised by the headline.

Smells like wingnut FUD.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. Didn't support this when it was called being a PUMA

Don't support it now.

[PoliticAverse]

3. And 2008 had PUMAs. n/t

[rjsquirrel]

4. lol yeah right

Every election this comes up at this point in the cycle and it never happens. Most Dems and Bernie voters will vote for HRC or they'll get Trump. ANd they know it.

Looks to me like Bernie's bros aren't voting for him either despite making a lot of noise. So sad.

Also pro tip if it's in the Washington Times it might as well be on Rush Limbaugh's show.

If you would abandon the democratic candidate because your primary choice didn't win I don't care to have you on my side anyway. Hurt fee fees much?

[BigBearJohn]

8. If you don't like the Washington Times

How about DailyKos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/29/1491714/-The-Bernie-or-Bust-Mindset-Sprouted-From-Organic-Integrity-Not-Rebel-Defiance-or-DNC-Disrespect

[emulatorloo]

52. Why did you post the Moonie Times in the first place?

Honest question?

[sufrommich]

5. Lol,PUMAS. nt

[72DejaVu]

7. That would seem unwise

The GOP is imploding. What if Hillary wins despite widespread defections from Sanders supporters? Then she will owe them nothing, and all their efforts to move her, and the party left, will have been in vain.

[RiverLover]

12. Trump is anti status quo & isn't purchased and that's why he's bringing out new voters.

I have a misguided family member who voted yesterday, her first time to bother with a primary vote, to vote for Trump.

She said he's the only one running who is a "real person". I said Bernie is real & he isn't insane. She said, "Yes, but he's a communist."

God help us, we're going to have a President Trump.

Mr Ego himself.

Hillary is going to be destroyed in the GE.

[pdsimdars]

30. I totally agree

And the DNC has noone to blame but themselves. DWS must have some sort of record for losing elections, they've certainly lost a LOT of them under her watch.

[RiverLover]

44. I think that's her goal. But the DNC? Are they that out of touch with their base?

Being conservative, but just not as bad as republicans, is losing voters. Losing citizens who want to be Democrats, to have a party that represents & acts in line with their principles, they aren't seeing this? Democrats need true representation, or why bother to vote?

They have to get that at some point.

[Gwhittey]

33. And we can thank

Main stream media and Hillary for spreading the word that Bernie was a Socialist. Even today on Today show they called Sanders a Socialist.

[RiverLover]

42. Exactly. Bernie should have addressed that right off the bat, though. And in every speech.

But the media is pounding on it every time they say his name, just about.

And putting up bad photos. The LA Times yesterday, for ex, on their coverage of Super Tues had these little photos of the candidates to show who took the state. They had a fantastic pic of Hillary & the photo of Bernie? One where he's scowling and his eyes are looking to the side, pursing his lips.

http://graphics.latimes.com/2016-election-super-tuesday-results/

The media wants Hillary vs Trump for higher ratings, readership, more advertising dollars.

Its sick.

[thucythucy]

55. Uh, hasn't Bernie himself said that he's a socialist?

Not that "socialist" is a dirty word to me--I have family in Europe who have been activists in the SDP in Germany.

But if Bernie himself has called himself a socialist, it seems kind of delusional to expect the MSM not to pick up on this.

[senz]

93. He calls himself a Democratic Socialist but righties only hear "socialist"

which we all know is a scare word.

He talks about Democratic Socialism at length here:

[Katashi_itto]

15. Gee thats a threat from the "No we cant" canindate

[Jester Messiah]

17. She doesn't owe ANY voter anything.

Goldman-Sachs and Citigroup, on the other hand, own her lock stock and barrel. There will be no moving her anywhere besides their corner.

[Madam Mossfern]

41. I think most of those who won't vote for Hillary

don't expect her to do anything for their views even if they do vote for her. To put it simply, she does not have their trust even though her speeches seem to have taken on some of Bernie's agenda. It's only to get their votes, and they're wise to that.

[marions ghost]

43. Nobody believes

that Hillary will feel she "owes" Sanders supporters anything.

Her history and the recent history of the Dem party tells us that.

Bernie supporters = Liberals = kept down for too long.

[artislife]

57. It has always been a vain attempt

We are trying to reach people who are apathetic.


There are other ways to be involved and that is to support issues and leave the parties to themselves.

We have had a Democrat in office for 8 years. I voted for him and will miss him.

However

We have had an uptick in police brutality towards Blacks

We have had more women in more states lose their access to choice

We have watched more of the world be affected by climate change

We have more money going to the 1%

We more deaths due military action

Okay, talk about SCOTUS. The republican congress is refusing to hold hearings during this administration, who is to say they won't continue during hers?

hmmm

[pdsimdars]

65. And don't forget

The Koch brothers have DOUBLED their wealth under Obama. . . you and I haven't.
I like Obama but I do call him out on things I disagree with.

[senz]

94. So she'll just revert to DLC/Third Party semi-Republican normalcy?

Well sure; she'll do do that anyway.

For instance,

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/02/larry-fink-and-his-blackrock-team-poised-to-take-over-hillary-clintons-treasury-department/

[liberal N proud]

9. Fearmongering

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

10. They're not even offering us each $137k cash.

They're offering us a candidate who will COST us hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost wages from her support of lower minimum wages and job outsourcing. You don't have to be operating from integrity to not want to vote for Clinton. Raw self-interest works too.

[NCTraveler]

11. In all seriousness, fuck those idiots.

I also think it's really bad to lump Sanders supporters in with these morons. This small group consists of the economic or bust racist bigots Clinton supporters have been railing against.

It is not representative of most all Sanders supporters on DU.

[onenote]

13. Neither of our contending candidates will win the GE if the party doesn't come together

Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:14 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm a Sanders supporter, so I'll address this from the standpoint of someone who doesn't understand how someone can call themselves "progressive" and yet be willing to enable the election of the most bigoted, authoritarian, undemocratic major party candidate of my lifetime. These same Sanders supporters assume and expect that the voters who are supporting Clinton in the primaries will support Sanders in the GE -- in particular the AA and Hispanic voters without whose support no Democrat can win. And they're probably right (at least I hope so) since they understand all too clearly the threat that Trump poses. But these same Sanders supporters apparently do not feel any urgency to oppose the threat that Trump poses to people of color,religious minorities, women, gays, the disabled, free speech etc.

In my book, someone who won't step up to defend minorities who are less fortunate and able to defend themselves is no "progressive".

[PeaceNikki]

16. This ^

[Jester Messiah]

18. Damn shame the Clintons have been doing everything possible to drive us apart then. n/t

[casperthegm]

20. This ^ n/t

[onenote]

68. I don't think either Clinton or Sanders have been trying to drive us apart

I do think that there are supporters on both sides that are.

[zappaman]

76. nailed it.

[seaglass]

25. Yep, it's selfish. n/t

[pdsimdars]

63. And didn't the GOP blame Obama for the shutdown????

Somehow they forget it takes 2 sides.

[bettyellen]

85. Totally this ^^^^

[Betty Karlson]

14. I feel strangely attracted to this Organic Integrity.

Maybe I can be a bit radical, in an oldfashioned moderate way. Enough is enough...

[Zynx]

19. So, they're blackmailing the party?

How mature.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. It's the other way around, Ace.

And this time we're pushing back.

[Maedhros]

81. I don't care one whit about your Party. It has repeatedly told me it doesn't want my input.

I'll vote for the candidate that best represents my interests. If Bernie is the Democratic Nominee, then I'll vote for a Democrat.

Voting because of peer pressure is not very mature, either.

[randome]

21. The 'revolution' is thin-skinned and short-sighted.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[artislife]

58. The status quo is ineffective. nt

[JaneyVee]

24. 50000 is meaningless.

Let them have their temper tantrum. Dems will unite.

[pdsimdars]

66. Yea, but too bad there are more Independents than either Dems or Reps

[tymorial]

26. Bah.

November is a long time from now... more than enough time to buy some nose plugs and check off that box to prevent a Trump, Rubio or Cruz white house.

[cantbeserious]

27. This Citizen Voted For A Clinton Twice - Never Again

eom

[thucythucy]

56. You can't be serious. Nt

[cantbeserious]

88. Deadly Serious

eom

[thucythucy]

90. All hail our new glorious leader President Trump!

Back in the day I had relatives who swore no one could make a worse chancellor than Fritz von Papen.

[cantbeserious]

91. IMHO - A Vote For HRC In The Primary Is A Vote For Trump In The General

eom

[thucythucy]

92. You could be right in that.

I cast my vote for Bernie yesterday, but if Hillary gets the nomination there's no way in hell I'm sitting this one out or voting for some third party.

Trump and his supporters despise people like me, and a Trump presidency would make me fear for my physical safety. That might sound like hyperbole, but I honestly don't think it is.

[beachbum bob]

28. Sour grapes...no more no less

When Bernie concedes to Hillary and pledges HIS support to her...how foolish will his followers look acting like children throwing a temper tantrum?

[stevenleser]

29. No one cares about the 2016 version of PUMAs. nt

[Blue_Tires]

31. Oh, so it's "take my ball and go home" time already?

pathetic, even by emoprog standards...

I hope Skinner is watching this forum closely, because there's going to be a purge of anybody who refuses to support the Dem nominee...

[Katashi_itto]

36. Bwhahah...yes because sliencing them here is such a massive victory over the shifting paradigm.

[Blue_Tires]

40. If they aren't willing to support the Dem nominee

then there's no place for them on this forum... That's pretty much the First Commandment here.

And if they'd rather have President Trump just to 'send a message' to the DNC, then they weren't real Dems to begin with anyway.

But the bright side is the dudebros will be able to spend the next 4-8 years sitting on their asses and complaining, which is all they're really good for anyway.

[Katashi_itto]

45. Lol...only if they are silly enough to answer one of your misreable loyalty pledges after the

nomination.

Being a "Real Dem" doesn't simply mean you have a "D" after your name. B

[Blue_Tires]

47. It's not my loyalty pledge, it's Skinner's...

So I suggest you take it up with him. Good luck.

[Katashi_itto]

51. Lol...went right over your head.

[Buddyblazon]

78. I've been at DU almost as long as you have...

I'll write in a vote for Bernie. Because I consider myself a liberal and he's the most liberal candidate.

If you want to ban me for that, whatever. It still won't force me to vote for the moderate.

Hell...I don't even know how a liberal could vote for Clinton and look at themselves in the mirror. Really in my eyes, you vote for Hillary....YOU should go looking for a Third Way message board...because DU is for liberals.

[pdsimdars]

32. Many seem to think they are playing some sort of board game.

"Bernie will pledge his supporters to Hillary. . . "
What a fantasy. The only thing Bernie can pledge is his own support, period. Bernie supporters are not the same kind of cult of personality as the Clinton supporters seem to be. As he has said correctly on many occasions, this isn't about HIM.
Many of his supporters are Independents and not Democrats and just for information, there are more Independents than there are Democrats or Republicans. To think that his supporters will all come home to some unified Democratic party is not based in reality. I left the Democratic party a LONG time ago and they have only gotten worse.
If you think the Bernie write-in is a protest, well, yea, I think it is. That is what our country is founded on, protest. When the establishment becomes too disconnected, unresponsive and oppressive, you have to protest.
Did you know that people actually DIED so you could have weekends off? They protested and the police were called to break it up and people were killed. Whenever people decide to stop and hold up the works, gum up the machine, it is for a purpose higher than other considerations. Those people had families and homes and lives to live, but at some point, they said, "enough is enough!" And despite all of these worldly cares and responsibilities, they put it on the line for something better. And that's what this is about. . putting it on the line for something better. Enough is enough.
I will be voting for the most electable candidate in this general election and that is Bernie Sanders if I have to write that name in myself.

[PonyUp]

34. Exactly this. ^^^ n/t

[randome]

35. Sanders doesn't have cult-like followers?

Most of us didn't even know he existed 8 months ago yet some treat him as a sort of messiah. That's less time than it took for Jesus!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[Katashi_itto]

39. We leave that to you guys, who follow a canidate with a lousy track record and has proven again and

again how corrupt they are.

[Katashi_itto]

38. Agree

[EndElectoral]

37. I understand Mr. Clemens opinion. Wonder if he's any relation to Samuel Clemens or Mark Twain?

Kind of think Twain would be a Bernie supporter.

[jcgoldie]

46. This argument that Hillary is not a progressive

It gets repeated ad nauseam on DU. Sanders supporters frequently claim that they wont support Clinton in the general election because she's closer to the republican candidates on the issues than to a true progressive. It's complete bullshit. Sanders may be "more progressive" in terms of his legislative history, but every single service whether its a right wing or left wing source graded her one of the most liberal senators in Congress during her years there. The scores are based on voting records... what politicians do... not just what they say. The argument that when Hillary makes progressive points she's only parroting Sanders is baloney. She has a record and just because she has ties on Wall Street and earned a lot of money to give speeches to banks... those are far from the only issues that matter. To claim that the decisions a Clinton appointee to the SCOTUS would make would be remotely similar to those of a Trump or Cruz appointee... real decisions about guns and abortions and who can get married... issues that affect people's lives... it's a ridiculous claim.

Bernie Sanders wins the more liberal than you are argument. But Hillary Clinton was one of the most liberal voting senators and rated more so than the current president. Ignoring that fact and painting her as right of center is just hyperbole and rationalization.

[onenote]

70. I have trouble with people who call themselves progressives

but are willing to enable the election of a misogynistic bigot who stands in direct opposition to ideals I have thought were mainstays of liberal advocacy: protecting the rights of racial and religious minorities, women, gays, the disabled, protecting free speech.

Do I prefer Sanders? Yes, which is why I cast my vote for him in Virginia yesterday. But I will crawl over nails to vote for Clinton if she is the nominee in a race against someone who is the antithesis of liberal, progressive ideals.

[Blue_Tires]

48. And from Vice:

"Whatever happens, happens," said Sanders supporter Kevin Amsberry. "But if Bernie doesn't win the Democratic nomination, we're all going to vote for Trump," he said gesturing to the row of supporters next to him.

"I feel like our government process is like a clogged artery — we need to get all the dirt and muck out," he added. "Bernie and Trump, they have different styles, but both can ultimately just clean out the plumbing."

https://news.vice.com/article/live-blog-super-tuesday-2016

[Katashi_itto]

54. Terrible. Awful. Darn.

[restorefreedom]

49. i am focused on the primary fight.

if bernie were to lose, the options for his supporters can be considered at that time. frankly, i would like to see some of this energy directed towards getting him to win NOW instead of planning for an event that has not, and may not, ever take place.

[fredamae]

53. Well - how many times do

Bernie supporters need to be told "if you ain't with HRC-GTFO-you're Not welcomed here" before it sinks in and they leave?

[Faux pas]

59. Kickin' with gusto!

[SidDithers]

60. Oh look, it's the right-wing Moonie Times...

Any port in a storm, eh?

Sid

[Scurrilous]

89. You'd Better Believe It!

[marions ghost]

61. With ya

Can no longer fetch the bones, then roll over and play dead.

Done.

[Autumn Colors]

64. I'm all in

If there's a massive campaign to write-in Bernie's name, I will. Otherwise, I'll be voting Green.

And yes, I know I'll have to take an extended leave of absence from DU at that point to avoid violating the TOS, since I won't be supporting the Dem. candidate.

[Darb]

67. Have you heard of the ........

Spare the Nose!!!! campaign?

You should join it.


Spare the Nose!!!

[Autumn Colors]

75. How about this?

You vote however you want to vote and I'll vote however I want to vote.

Bye, bye.

[pdsimdars]

71. Oh man,

I didn't realize that until you mentioned it. "Democratic" Underground. I've just been thinking "progressive" all along. You mean the ToS says you have to support the Dem. candidate?
Now I'll have to think about what I'm saying.

[Autumn Colors]

74. After the convention, if HRC is the Dem. party nominee

Yes. You won't be allowed to promote anyone other than HRC after that.

[Darb]

69. Washington Times?

They'd like nothing better than the Bernies to sit it out.

Spare the Nose!!!

[Waiting For Everyman]

72. It'll be low turn out and heavy defections.

The way the DNC and HRC have conducted this primary may have already ruined the General Election for either Dem, which should have been a sure winner us (because Trump, but all of their candidates suck).

EPIC FAIL.

[Darb]

73. Am I missing something?

I just haven't seen this scorched earth campaign that the Bernies are talking about. I have seen one hell of a lot of Bernies spewing Teabagger talking points though, that is for sure. I guess that doesn't count.


Spare the Nose!!!

[chillfactor]

77. Then these voters are not true Democrats....

I am a died-in-the-wool Democrat....I am 74 years old and have voted the Democratic ticket my whole life. I support Hillary but if Bernie is the nominee I would vote for him. I am really tired and disgusted with Bernie supporters who say they would not vote for Hillary..they do not belong in the Democratic party period! They are just selfish voters who whine like a 2-year old when they cannot have their way.

[still_one]

79. anyone who doesn't vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election does not care about the

Supreme Court, civil rights, women's rights, and all the other issues that WILL be decided by the next Supreme Court

Those that profess such an ideal, are a selfish, egotistical, "I didn't get my way so I am taking my marbles and going home" arrogance.

They can spew what they want, but they are NOT the progressive, pro-choice, civil rights, human rights protaganists they claim to be. In fact I suspect a good number of them are not even really Sanders supporters, but wolves in sheep's clothing

The majority of progressives, liberals, Democrats, Sanders' supporters, Hillary supporters will support and vote for the Democratic nominee whoever it is.

and when it is all said and done, and the Democratic nominee wins in the general election, those who choose to turn their backs will become part of the junk heap of irrelevance

On the other hand, those who continue fight, work to change a system or a party who they don't always see eye to eye with, will become the leaders of tomorrow

[highprincipleswork]

80. If Hillary doesn't prove herself Progressive, it will be hard to attract those who believe fully.

[onenote]

86. And those who "believe fully"

will be so flexible in those beliefs as to enable the election of someone who is as opposed to progressive ideals such as racial equality, protecting the rights of religious minorities (including non-believers), women, gays, and the disabled. Who has no respect for the First Amendment.

You can call someone who would allow the election of such a person a progressive. But I won't.

[highprincipleswork]

87. Something must be done to show the extent to which people are fed up...

with the Third Way, with the DLC.

The hope was that people of all types with a Progressive point of view, including many who unexpectedly prove that they hold those views too, would join with White Liberals and with PoC to support someone who has proven themselves to be adamantly Progressive through thick and thin. Not someone who works closely with the Third Way and DLC and perhaps even The Foundation.

Unfortunately, PoC seem to have an adamant desire to support Hillary Clinton, for reasons we do not always understand. So that coalition is f'ed up, until or unless it PoC decide to give Bernie more of a chance (as some really well and passionately expressed Black spokespeople like Nina Turner have advocated). It is possible this is changing somewhat. I heard that Latinos turned out well for Bernie in Colorado.

But look, as a Bernie supporter, I don't want to tell anybody how to vote. I just have a hard time seeing how he could be a worse choice for PoC than Hillary. My PoC friends in California are almost universally Bernie Sanders supporters, as clearly and adamantly as others are making the other decision.

I do know this. People who have been shafted so often, and that includes now the entire Middle Class, and folks barely getting by, and PoC really need to get together. And preferably, I would think all of us agree, under a Progressive agenda, or else we aren't really getting anywhere, just cloaking the same old pain or accepting just a little more pain because we're told "that's how it's got to be".

I want someone who fights for me and fights for all of us and doesn't waver and doesn't back down and holds the line.

I've not seen that Hillary is someone who can and will do that. I am very willing to be proven wrong. (But I've heard that she's already starting to pivot to the Right.)

[LyndaG]

82. Well ...

When Hillary lost to Obama in '08, she not only endorsed him, she and her husband made numerous appearances in support of Obama. She did what she thought was best She obviously didn't want to see another Republican elected. I admire her for that.

[BainsBane]

84. All any campaign can do is turn out their supporters

We'll work on getting loyal Democrats and persuadable independents to the polls. If people prefer Trump, that is of course their choice. As with all professional campaigns, when someone indicates they won't support the candidate, we simply thank them for their time and move on to identify voters who do.

I think it a sad reflection on their candidate that Sanders supporters feel they have to threaten Democrats to get them to support their candidate. Perhaps they ought to give more thought to whether their actions reflect the values their candidate claims to represent. It's hard to see how a determination that the will of a minority determine an election is in keeping with rhetoric about equality, democracy, or opposition to oligarchy.