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Interesting interview w/ NYU Sociologist on the language of class & economic injustice in the primar
This is an excerpt from a long interview. It explains how Hillary and the DNC are cleverly using the lingo of the radical academic left (What the "left" has morphed into; although, actually, in academia, "the left" is by no means monolithic) to marginalize Bernie or to marginalize ANYONE who focuses on economic inequality.
KHALEK: There is a lot of racist ideas underpinning a lot of this thought, but it’s considered radical and it’s considered inclusive. Also, how does this relate to what we are seeing in the election right now?
You’ve got someone like Hillary Clinton, who is running for the Democratic nomination. This is someone, who’s been involved in pushing policies that have been detrimental to poor people, particularly poor people of color. And, right now, she’s really remaking herself into a social justice warrior, who’s anti-racist and always been anti-racist. She literally used the word intersectionality. She’s using the language of white privilege.
CHIBBER: She must have hired some grad students.
KHALEK: Right. [LAUGHTER] But, on the other end, you’ve got someone like Bernie Sanders. Obviously, he’s not a hardcore Marxist or socialist, but he’s popularizing ideas about the economy, about redistribution, that haven’t been popularized on this massive of a platform in a really long time. And, it’s fascinating to me to watch the reaction to him and the way to push people away from him is to call him a “single-issue candidate” and to use this language coming from the radical academic left or, you know, whatever you want to call it. What are your thoughts on that?
CHIBBER: It’s deeply dishonest, of course. The entire reaction to Bernie has been bait-and-switch kind of ploy, and it’s not surprising. What is interesting is, as you say, that she is drawing on this current aspect of intellectual and political culture to justify this kind of dishonest move that she’s making. What she’s drawing on is, basically what has happened in the past twenty years is what it means to be left-wing or radical has been very successfully redefined by the academy, by professors, and by grad students.
And the way it’s been redefined is starting with a correct premise, which is that class, people’s economic condition, isn’t responsible for everything awful that’s happened in their lives. There’s also the purely racialized oppressions that they face and gendered oppressions they face, and that’s absolutely true. Starting with that correct premise, it leads to the deeply incorrect conclusion that, therefore, if you talk about people’s economic conditions, you are not addressing the core and most important aspects and liabilities of their lives.
Now, if you’re an African-American in this country, it’s absolutely true that you face all kinds of discrimination. It’s absolutely true that you have a much higher likelihood of being incarcerated than a white person in the same class as you. That’s absolutely true. But, how do you expect to address the real plight of African-Americans in this country around their everyday lives without a jobs program, without universal healthcare, without decent and universal public education? To think that these are matters that, by virtue of being economic, are not relevant for people of color is not just wrong. It is fantastically dishonest.
The reason that Hillary is able to get away with this is because the so-called left—and I don’t really call it the left anymore. I don’t know what to call it because it’s a diseased formation. The so-called left intelligentsia has succeeded in equating the word class with white guys. And we should look at this as an achievement because it’s never happened on the left before. It was always understood among the more savvy radical activists that, even though people’s economic conditions don’t explain all the liabilities they face, addressing the oppressions that men and women, who are poor are facing—Addressing those without addressing their economic conditions is an elite strategy to keep off the table the real concerns of poor, working class black men and women.
It was always understood. Now, it is taken to be the emblem of what it means to be radical, and that’s just a sign that the middle class and the upper classes have taken over the discourse of the left, whether they’re professors, whether they work in non-profits, or whether they’re these talking heads for think tanks. It’s the same thing, which is the middle class gets to define what it means to be radical.
KHALEK: That’s a really great point. There also seems to be this strain of hatred, looking down on the white working class and poor class, even blaming them for racism.
CHIBBER: A lot of this race talk serves as an acceptable way to express your disdain for poor people. You just can’t express it for poor black people because then it becomes racist and in polite circles that is unacceptable—and that’s a great thing. It shouldn’t be, of course. But it is acceptable to talk about poor white trash, or hillbillies, or rednecks. All these are expressions you can continue to use, and people use it with alacrity not because they have a hatred for white racists but there is a general disdain for poor white people. And they’re seen as being born into racism the way they were born into their skin. This is, again, an achievement of very backward and quite conservative intelligentsia now.
KHALEK: I don’t know if this is the wrong parallel to make, but Edward Said had this idea of the European mind being inherently incapable.
CHIBBER: Orientalist.
KHALEK: Exactly, so it kind of reminds me of that a little bit, where it’s projected these inherent qualities on to poor white people. But, then also this is all very helpful to elites because the idea of fixing racism ends up not fixing the material concerns of poor people, working class people, whether white or of color.
CHIBBER: Let’s do a thought experiment. Imagine for a second that Hillary Clinton gets into office and she has a thorough reform of the prison system so that blacks and whites are incarcerated at the same rates. That’s a great thing. Now, it will improve the lives of a lot of young black men. What’ll it do to their job prospects? What’s it going to do for the quality of the schools? What’s it going to do to the infant mortality rate in places like Washington, D.C., which rivals that of a third world country?
So, the idea that you’re not really anti-racist until you only and exclusively talk about prisons is a ploy. It is something that the Democratic Party loves to do because it’s a way to push off the table what really threatens not just the white establishment but the black establishment as well.
KHALEK: The idea of fixing racism just becomes fixing hearts and minds and getting people to use the right language, like these really superficial things. It’s good to change people’s ideas…
CHIBBER: They’re limited, but it also keeps in place—One of the things that’s not talked about is Hillary is not doing this on her own. She has a small army of black politicos and intellectuals that are working with her. Now, why are they doing this? It’s quite simple. Over the past thirty years or so, one of the side effects of the neo-liberal turn has been the creation of a kind of intermediate class of brokers, real estate agents, sometimes small capitalists, and political officials, who are black. And, for them, the prospect of having a real, deep structural reform of the economy is quite threatening. Maybe not as threatening as to the larger elements of capital in this country, but it would mean they lose their position and all the patronage and largesse that comes their way. So, they work very, very hard....
You’ve got someone like Hillary Clinton, who is running for the Democratic nomination. This is someone, who’s been involved in pushing policies that have been detrimental to poor people, particularly poor people of color. And, right now, she’s really remaking herself into a social justice warrior, who’s anti-racist and always been anti-racist. She literally used the word intersectionality. She’s using the language of white privilege.
CHIBBER: She must have hired some grad students.
KHALEK: Right. [LAUGHTER] But, on the other end, you’ve got someone like Bernie Sanders. Obviously, he’s not a hardcore Marxist or socialist, but he’s popularizing ideas about the economy, about redistribution, that haven’t been popularized on this massive of a platform in a really long time. And, it’s fascinating to me to watch the reaction to him and the way to push people away from him is to call him a “single-issue candidate” and to use this language coming from the radical academic left or, you know, whatever you want to call it. What are your thoughts on that?
CHIBBER: It’s deeply dishonest, of course. The entire reaction to Bernie has been bait-and-switch kind of ploy, and it’s not surprising. What is interesting is, as you say, that she is drawing on this current aspect of intellectual and political culture to justify this kind of dishonest move that she’s making. What she’s drawing on is, basically what has happened in the past twenty years is what it means to be left-wing or radical has been very successfully redefined by the academy, by professors, and by grad students.
And the way it’s been redefined is starting with a correct premise, which is that class, people’s economic condition, isn’t responsible for everything awful that’s happened in their lives. There’s also the purely racialized oppressions that they face and gendered oppressions they face, and that’s absolutely true. Starting with that correct premise, it leads to the deeply incorrect conclusion that, therefore, if you talk about people’s economic conditions, you are not addressing the core and most important aspects and liabilities of their lives.
Now, if you’re an African-American in this country, it’s absolutely true that you face all kinds of discrimination. It’s absolutely true that you have a much higher likelihood of being incarcerated than a white person in the same class as you. That’s absolutely true. But, how do you expect to address the real plight of African-Americans in this country around their everyday lives without a jobs program, without universal healthcare, without decent and universal public education? To think that these are matters that, by virtue of being economic, are not relevant for people of color is not just wrong. It is fantastically dishonest.
The reason that Hillary is able to get away with this is because the so-called left—and I don’t really call it the left anymore. I don’t know what to call it because it’s a diseased formation. The so-called left intelligentsia has succeeded in equating the word class with white guys. And we should look at this as an achievement because it’s never happened on the left before. It was always understood among the more savvy radical activists that, even though people’s economic conditions don’t explain all the liabilities they face, addressing the oppressions that men and women, who are poor are facing—Addressing those without addressing their economic conditions is an elite strategy to keep off the table the real concerns of poor, working class black men and women.
It was always understood. Now, it is taken to be the emblem of what it means to be radical, and that’s just a sign that the middle class and the upper classes have taken over the discourse of the left, whether they’re professors, whether they work in non-profits, or whether they’re these talking heads for think tanks. It’s the same thing, which is the middle class gets to define what it means to be radical.
KHALEK: That’s a really great point. There also seems to be this strain of hatred, looking down on the white working class and poor class, even blaming them for racism.
CHIBBER: A lot of this race talk serves as an acceptable way to express your disdain for poor people. You just can’t express it for poor black people because then it becomes racist and in polite circles that is unacceptable—and that’s a great thing. It shouldn’t be, of course. But it is acceptable to talk about poor white trash, or hillbillies, or rednecks. All these are expressions you can continue to use, and people use it with alacrity not because they have a hatred for white racists but there is a general disdain for poor white people. And they’re seen as being born into racism the way they were born into their skin. This is, again, an achievement of very backward and quite conservative intelligentsia now.
KHALEK: I don’t know if this is the wrong parallel to make, but Edward Said had this idea of the European mind being inherently incapable.
CHIBBER: Orientalist.
KHALEK: Exactly, so it kind of reminds me of that a little bit, where it’s projected these inherent qualities on to poor white people. But, then also this is all very helpful to elites because the idea of fixing racism ends up not fixing the material concerns of poor people, working class people, whether white or of color.
CHIBBER: Let’s do a thought experiment. Imagine for a second that Hillary Clinton gets into office and she has a thorough reform of the prison system so that blacks and whites are incarcerated at the same rates. That’s a great thing. Now, it will improve the lives of a lot of young black men. What’ll it do to their job prospects? What’s it going to do for the quality of the schools? What’s it going to do to the infant mortality rate in places like Washington, D.C., which rivals that of a third world country?
So, the idea that you’re not really anti-racist until you only and exclusively talk about prisons is a ploy. It is something that the Democratic Party loves to do because it’s a way to push off the table what really threatens not just the white establishment but the black establishment as well.
KHALEK: The idea of fixing racism just becomes fixing hearts and minds and getting people to use the right language, like these really superficial things. It’s good to change people’s ideas…
CHIBBER: They’re limited, but it also keeps in place—One of the things that’s not talked about is Hillary is not doing this on her own. She has a small army of black politicos and intellectuals that are working with her. Now, why are they doing this? It’s quite simple. Over the past thirty years or so, one of the side effects of the neo-liberal turn has been the creation of a kind of intermediate class of brokers, real estate agents, sometimes small capitalists, and political officials, who are black. And, for them, the prospect of having a real, deep structural reform of the economy is quite threatening. Maybe not as threatening as to the larger elements of capital in this country, but it would mean they lose their position and all the patronage and largesse that comes their way. So, they work very, very hard....
https://shadowproof.com/2016/02/28/clinton-intersectionality-language-interview/
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