Sanders calls Clinton’s record on trade a ‘disaster’

[Cheese Sandwich]

LANSING, Mich. — Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders sought Thursday to portray Hillary Clinton as having long been on the wrong side of the debate over U.S. trade policy, a key issue in the upcoming Michigan primary.

At a news conference here, the senator from Vermont ticked off a series of trade pacts, dating to the North American Free Trade Agreement in the 1990s, that he had opposed and Clinton had supported. In the case of NAFTA, Clinton’s husband was in the White House at the time, and Sanders was a junior congressman.

“You didn’t have to have a PhD in economics to figure that one out,” Sanders said, asserting that NAFTA was written by corporate interests with the aim of driving down labor costs with no regard to the effects on American workers.

“This is a criticism of Secretary Clinton’s trade policies, which have been a disaster,” Sanders said of the former secretary of state, senator from New York and first lady. He was flanked by several supportive labor union members.
...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/03/in-appeal-for-michigan-votes-sanders-calls-clintons-record-on-trade-a-disaster/

[bigwillq]

1. Truth (nt)

[nichomachus]

2. Mrs. Clinton's record on just about everything has been a disaster. nt

[peacebird]

4. Well, there is that...!

[pdsimdars]

63. Perfect!

[bigwillq]

6. !

Pretty much.

[merrily]

10. Well, someone has to take the tough moral stands on behalf of the planet and its people.

That's why Sanders is running.

[Enthusiast]

32. Yooge plus one!

[Lorien]

111. Truth!!

Iraq
TPP
KXL
Pro arctic drilling
Pro for Profit Prisons
Pro Monsanto
Bankruptcy bill
Voting for a border fence
Saying child migrants should be sent home
Using her position as SoS to push fracking on the rest of the world
Wall Street donations
Six digit speaking fees
Taking money from weapons deals
Honduras
Comments about nuking Iran
Voted to raise credit card interest rates
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Opposing gay marriage in New York State
Brownbeck Amendments
Glass-Steagall
No living wage
No free college
No universal health care (ACA coverage gap....ACA will never provide UHC)
No medical Marijuana
Supports mandatory sentencing
Says that she's "proud of" the way Walmart does business
Libya
Yemen
Syria
Egypt
United States-Chile Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
United States-Singapore Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
Free trade - Oman agreement
Voted FOR Gitmo. --- Hillary voted against the Byrd ammendment and against a large majority of democrats to reduce Guatanamo funding by $36,000,000. She joined the republican majority against the majority of democrats in supporting Guantanamo.
Pro death penalty
Pro cluster bombing
Clinton policies lead to the largest mass incarceration of human beings in the history of the world
and the list goes on...

[PWPippin]

117. Indeed!

[peacebird]

3. She supports more H1B visas and outsourcing as well. She is a terrible candidate for working people.

[Cheese Sandwich]

56. I'm glad at least many of us agree with this

We are a clear majority on the DU, even though you would never know that by counting the posts.

[pdsimdars]

65. Showing that there are "low information" voters on both sides of the aisle

[Cobalt Violet]

89. and they wonder why she's not liked.

They can't even see it.

[Jitter65]

5. Just saying s_ _ t doesn't make it so. nt

[tk2kewl]

8. who do you think is just saying sh*t?

[merrily]

12. It's so because it's so. Saying it is ony pointing it out.

[Kall]

48. But when people can't say sh-t in response,

it tells you all you need to know about the legitimacy of the criticism.

[Vincardog]

101. You are free to talk shit as long as you want to. It is easier to tell the truth.

[tk2kewl]

7. as are her intentions on trade

[Cheese Sandwich]

57. It's true. There's no doubt she will support TPP

[elljay]

115. True that!

We can't mention this enough. She will make a minor cosmetic change and then say that the TPP now meets the "gold standard".

[JaneyVee]

9. LOL this guys talking about NAFTA....in 2016.

Time to wrap it up Bernie. Republicans are imploding, join us in finishing them off.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. When did NAFTA expire?

[JaneyVee]

16. As soon as TPP passes, which is a renegotiation of NAFTA.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. Since NAFTA was bad how does TPP make it better?

[JaneyVee]

19. Look it up.

Better labor protection, enviro protection, etc etc. Its either this renegotiation or youre stuck with NAFTA.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. What I've looked up tells me the TPP is a disaster for workers here and abroad as well as

gutting hard-won environmental protections. This doesn't end NAFTA it expands it and makes it worse.

[Jitter65]

99. Then you don't understand what you are reading. nt

[AlbertCat]

119. Then you don't understand what you are reading.

Ahhhh... the "you're too stupid to get it" defense.

Like that isn't telling.

[Armstead]

23. Psssstttt....There's a bridge in Brooklyn I hear is for sale

[jeff47]

27. I have. It's worse.

Could you point to specifically where that better labor protection and environmental protection is?

[JaneyVee]

40. Here:

And in addition to TPP representing a renegotiation of NAFTA by holding Mexico to the fully enforceable labor provisions listed above, Mexico is also developing parallel labor reforms, including to better protect collective bargaining and reform its system for administering labor justice. https://ustr.gov/tpp/

[chapdrum]

88. My prediction is:

She can't.

But that won't stop her.

[tex-wyo-dem]

30. JaneyVee...show us exactly where TPP...

Is an improvement to NAFTA.

I'll wait for your response.

[JaneyVee]

37. Here:

"And in addition to TPP representing a renegotiation of NAFTA by holding Mexico to the fully enforceable labor provisions listed above, Mexico is also developing parallel labor reforms, including to better protect collective bargaining and reform its system for administering labor justice."

https://ustr.gov/tpp/

[Kall]

50. You must not have noticed

the "this time will be different" rationalization after every one of these trade sellouts. Lucy, meet football.

“Labor unions — and I am a big labor guy — they are not happy with me on this,” Obama said.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/270273-obama-cautiously-optimistic-on-tpp-trade-deal

[tex-wyo-dem]

93. Thanks for the link...

Just a cursory examination it appears that a lot of xxx shall do xxx, but I don't have a clear understanding how all of these provisions will be enforced.

I admit I need to do a full review to comment further.

[Lorien]

112. JaneyVee; do you realize who WROTE the TPP, and who benefits from it?

It's FAR WORSE than NAFTA. It would crush workers and destroy our environment. Do either mean anything at all to you? Let's get into some specifics:

[grasswire]

102. and they likely get paid for it, too! nt

[noiretextatique]

31. insane eom

[Kensan]

36. Please elaborate that point...

I would be very interested in how the TPP will enforce those "better labor & environmental protections" once a company files a grievance under the ICSID. Those protections you mention cost money to implement. Therefore, those rules automatically mean lesser profits, and these "fair" trade deals are all about opening markets and protecting the bottom lines of multi-national conglomerates.

Treaties also tend to have tie-breaker provisions for these situations. I'm sure you are absolutely sure that the "good" provisions will win the day under the dispute resolution procedures.

P.S. This was difficult to type, as I kept doing "air quotes" with my hands while composing this.

[elljay]

116. Plus

The TPP allows corporations to challenge, before a panel composed of industry appointees, any regulations that they consider to be anticompetitive. No question that an improvement in Mexico's labor standards would unfairly burden a company, as compared with using slave labor in Thailand.

[bread_and_roses]

45. Sure - that's why the entire Labor movement opposes it

as well as the entire environmental movement - because it has "better protections." Go to the CWA website - see fact sheet after fact sheet on exactly why it is bad for women, seniors, the environment, workers, on and on and on.
http://www.cwa-union.org/pages/tpp_agreement_lpats

[phazed0]

49. It is NAFTA, on steroids.

"Look it up."

"Better labor protection, enviro protection, etc etc. Its either this renegotiation or youre stuck with NAFTA."

"In many cases, TPP will broaden or improve upon commitments in existing agreements. For example, the commitments Mexico, Canada, Chile, Singapore, Australia, and Peru have made in TPP’s Labor and Environment chapters broaden and improve upon NAFTA and previous FTAs. "

Great.

So what part of the "Chapter 1 Overview" did you not understand? Ya, I'm sure you read the TPP lol.

Of course you could go read EFF's take on it:
(1) Digital Policies that Benefit Big Corporations at the Expense of the Public
(2) Lack of Transparency
(3) Expand Copyright Terms
(4) Create New Threats for Journalists and Whistleblowers
(5) Enact a "Three-Step Test" Language That Puts Restrictions on Fair Use
(6) Adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without commercial motivation.
(7) Place Barriers in the Way of Protecting Your Privacy
(8) Do Nothing on Net Neutrality and Spam
(9) Prohibit Open Source Mandates

https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp

Have fun voting for Trump or Hillary, your overlords.

[Kittycat]

100. Bookmarking for Post #49

Just adding this to my list on TPP. I like your short and sweet. Thanks.

[pdsimdars]

67. You and I have a different definition of "better"

or whatever you are smoking is really strong!

[desmiller]

103. JaneyVee puts full faith in false context. Check

[Dont call me Shirley]

54. And TPP is way worse for working people than nafta. TPP is nafta on steroids. Bad for us, good for

the billionaires and their minions only.

[Dont call me Shirley]

73. Thanks for the heads up, pdsimdars...

[grasswire]

106. which one?? nt

[Lorien]

113. And absolutely devestating to the environment

which is already hanging on by a thread. Billionaires and their minions are so poorly educated and greatly insulated that they don't understand that they can't survive in a plastic bubble without working ecosystems.

[Dont call me Shirley]

121. It will create a global set of corporate oligarchical kingdoms to take rule over the entire earth,

No more sovereign democratic or republican countries, only a panel of 3 corporate Judges deciding all laws. HW wants to see his new world order before he kicks the bucket.

[pdsimdars]

66. Hey, your smugness

Were you aware at all that people are still suffering from that DISASTER she supported? Just another disaster she showed the WRONG judgement on. Again!
How many times before you Hill-bots, "get it"?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. CLINTON's TRADE RECORD HAS NOT BEEN A DISASTER!

It's been extremely lucrative for her backers.

[Shadowflash]

41. Bingo!

We have a winner!

[RufusTFirefly]

43. +1,000!

These policies didn't fail the general public because of incompetency.
They were designed to screw workers and make the rich even richer.

It’s never going to get any better, don’t look for it, be happy with what you’ve got.

Because the owners, the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the BIG owners! The Wealthy… the REAL owners! The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions.

Forget the politicians. They are irrelevant. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice! You have OWNERS! They OWN YOU. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls.

[BigBearJohn]

110. Truer words never spoken. So sad.

[Cheese Sandwich]

58. This exactly

The billionaire class have made out like bandits

[peacebird]

104. Exactly, but as I am never going to be a billionaire I think her trade recprd sux

[Hoyt]

14. Including today's endorsement by the United Farm Workers, the following unions have endorsed

Clinton as best for their membership:

AFGE – American Federation of Government Employees, representing 301,992[355]
AFSCME – American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, representing 1.3 million[1,033]
AFT – American Federation of Teachers, representing 1.6 million[388]
AWIU – International Association of Heat and Frost Insulators and Allied Workers, representing 30,000[1,034]
BAC – International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers, representing 76,233[1,035]
IAM – International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, representing 570,423[429]
IATSE- International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, representing 125,000[1,036]
ILA – International Longshoremen's Association, representing 65,000[1,037]
IUOE – International Union of Operating Engineers, representing 374,521[1,038]
IUPAT – International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, representing 103,858[1,039]
IW – International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers, representing 123,906[1,040]
LIUNA – Laborers' International Union of North America, representing 557,999[457]
NABTU – North America's Building Trades, representing 3 million[1,041]

There are 14 million union members in the USA. A rough count above indicates unions representing over 8 million members have endorsed Clinton to date. And, some of the remaining unions have not endorsed anyone.

I know, the union leadership is not the members, but they do get elected by them.

[Kelvin Mace]

20. "I know, the union leadership is not the members, but they do get elected by them"

The question of import is, "Will they get RE-ELECTED by them?"

[Hoyt]

21. Betcha they do.

[Kelvin Mace]

24. We'll see.

Maybe short term, but after TPP passes and more jobs start disappearing, someone is going to be pissed at the leadership.

[Hoyt]

25. Actually the vast majority of jobs won't be adversely impacted, and it's questionable

whether any will be. The largest unions -- representing government and service workers -- won't be hurt. And plenty will be helped.

However you want to look at it, if we just sit back and do nothing, a lot more jobs will be hurt.

[DefenseLawyer]

34. So as a supporter of TPP

Do you differ with your candidate that opposes it or do you assume that she's lying and that she actually agrees with you?

[Hoyt]

38. I think it is a mistake to just outright stand against trade agreements. The jobs you

think Sanders will protect -- which aren't very many -- will just as likely be hurt if we don't enact TPP and similar agreements. I believe trade agreements are good for the world, and it is high time poorer countries can share in the wealth. Long-term, that will benefit all of us in many ways, including ways beyond trade.

At least Clinton is mulling it over, and will consider trade agreements impact on the world and the USA long-term. Sanders just believes all trade agreements are bad, or that he can convince enough voters that trade agreements are bad.

[DefenseLawyer]

46. So you view labor as a commodity, just another cost.

And since lowering costs equals increasing profit, paying workers the least amount possible is always the best thing. Milton Friedman agreed with you. Of course your candidate agrees with you as well and you know that, despite your spurious claim that she is "mulling it over". These agreements have almost nothing to do with trade. If an American company makes air conditioners in the United States to sell in the United States and then moves to Mexico to make the same product and brings in back to the United States to sell, we aren't suddenly "trading" with Mexico. The only thing being traded are 1st world wages for 3rd world wages. And yes, the American company operating in Mexico will make more profits, which is how you define success, but eventually anyone in the United States whose job can be exported will be out of a job or they will be making the lowest wages allowed in order to keep a job at all. You can call that "trade" all day, but it doesn't make it true.

[Hoyt]

59. No, that is not what I said. I don't view people who don't work as a commodity either and

trade is one way that we produce enough tax revenue, etc., over the long run to help them, pay for education, healthcare, welfare, food stamps, etc. I really don't believe any substantial number of people will lose their jobs over the TPP, TransAtlantic Agreement, etc. That's just fearmongering. Trading among ourselves won't work anymore. In a world economy resources move around constantly. We adapt or perish over the long-term.

I also define success as a Mexican who was making 50 cents a day who is now working for Audi at $8/hour. Or some one, making a much better wage than before who is making a recliner every bit a good as an American La-z-boy at 33 to 50% of the price. Korean cars that put many of ours to shame. It's a sad reality, likely the fault of management more than any worker. But, we have to position ourselves for the future. Trying to trade among ourselves doesn't do that in today's world.

I honestly do not believe we can go back to the 1950s, even though people seem to dream of that. I'd be happy living on the farm where I was born with an outhouse, etc., but I wonder how many really would be happy with that.

[DefenseLawyer]

81. So you're for exploiting workers do you can buy a cheap recliner?

How about we all pay a little more for our crap, corporate profits drop from 15% to 8% and average people can actually make enough money to live? I know it will suck paying an extra $20 bucks for a chair, but I think you can swing it.

[Hoyt]

86. Not exploiting anyone. Nor am I a Nationalist who thinks Americans are the only ones who matter

in this world. We lost your argument back when China first sent us Chinese finger-traps and Japan exported transistor radios. Japanese cars were better than ours too.

I'm not talking about $20 difference. I'm talking hundreds and for something that looks cruddy in the "American" version. The American one probably has a better mechanism, but the difference in cost ain't worth it. Truthfully, I value everyone's lives equally, not just Americans. Most Americans, even factory workers are the world's 1%ers. We've taken more than our fair share of wealth and resources. Now some here, want to pull up stakes and say the heck with the rest of the world. Quite interesting really. Trump will appeal to a lot of folks like that.

[DefenseLawyer]

96. Low wages = cheap crap for you = a better world

Got it.

[Hoyt]

98. Korean, Japanese, etc., products put most of ours to shame.

[Kelvin Mace]

47. The same claim was made about NAFTA

[Hoyt]

60. And paraphrasing Krugman -- who was thrown under the bus -- lots of knowledgeable people blame NAFTA

for things caused by other factors. A whole lot of fine jobs were created during the 1990s.

[pdsimdars]

79. Got that backwards dude

It was Krugman who did the throwing under the bus. Wonder what Hillary promised him for selling out.

[cannabis_flower]

68. Might not hurt the unions

their workers have contract. But it will hurt the non-union workers for sure.

[Hoyt]

69. Not if you look past 2016. Even then, the negative impact will be small. This is about

positioning our -- and other countries -- for the future.

[GreatGazoo]

39. Most of those jobs can't be outsourced.

As for the AFL-CIO with 12 million members....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-17/americas-largest-union-refuses-back-hillary-over-sanders

[Hoyt]

44. Most jobs in this country can't be outsourced easily. I mean, heck, we could outsource the military,

Congress, let China collect trash, Russia produce bourbon, perform most medical exams over the internet, etc. But, that's not likely to happen.

[pdsimdars]

80. That is the way it was with EVERY union that asked its members

They went for Bernie. Those people aren't stupid. They are the ones on the line so they pay attention.

[wendylaroux]

53. The United Farm Workers was founded in 1962 by Cesar E. Chavez and Dolores Huerta — a strong Clinton

supporter.

from:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7e7d1cb9ee79470786e96b2fba4c026e/united-farm-workers-endorse-hillary-clinton

[Hoyt]

62. Yes, and Sanders' supporters threw Huerta under the bus a few weeks ago.

[wendylaroux]

64. why? nt

[pdsimdars]

77. It matters a LOT

On one show they showed a list of the organization, who they endorsed and the method. In EVERY organization that endorsed Hillary, it was NOT the members but the leadership.
In EVERY organization that has endorsed Bernie, it was from the MEMBERS.

Then they went to a few of these organizations and listed the members of the leadership. There were a lot of lobbyists, etc. on them. So, what you get with Hillary is a bunch of insiders, endorsing a fellow insider and using the name of the organization, but not representing the will of the members.

If you don't get that, if you don't comprehend what that means, you don't really have a discerning mind or are being knowingly ignorant.
Or
What is that quote, many times people who don't understand something it is because they are well paid NOT to understand it.

[Hoyt]

83. OK, so you don't like Delores Huerta and similar leaders because they haven't endorsed Sanders.

I get it. Throw them under the bus, if you have not already.

I understand that those unions listed endorsed Clinton (with no implication all union members were for her, just like all union members don't support contracts). A few other unions have endorsed Sanders. I suspect in those other unions there are people who support Clinton. That's just the way things work.

[Arizona Roadrunner]

120. Good luck!!!!

Do some checking on how she has reassured the exporters of H-1b employees in India to the US that they are welcome! You are right, most of these so called "unions" haven't checked with their memberships....

[AzDar]

15. Ayup.

[SheenaR]

17. Well she was both right and wrong on NAFTA

[Uncle Joe]

26. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Cheese Sandwich.

[SoapBox]

28. Yup...

Truth!

[EndElectoral]

29. Foreign policy (of which trade is a component) has been abysmal.

It really is not serving the people well

[jalan48]

33. Big K & R!

[Enthusiast]

35. Clinton's trade policy has been horrible for American workers.

Why? Because they could care less about the General Welfare of the American people.

They are pretending to care about the American worker—it is a cruel ruse.

[BernieforPres2016]

42. Wait a minute, how can that be?

Last night, Chuck Todd and Clinton loyalist Anna Greenberg (labeled "Democratic pollster" by MSNBC on the screen) said that Bernie basically made a concession speech on Tuesday night and had turned his focus from Hillary Clinton to attacking Donald Trump on her behalf. Do you mean to tell me they were lying?

[Cavallo]

51. I think calling the TPP the gold standard should disqualify her, but then I'm a Liberal Dem against

the TPP. At least Bernie is against it. I don't believe he'd sign it when it came across his desk.

[pdsimdars]

84. That was 45 times she called it the gold standard

I think the gold was referring to her sponsor Goldman/Sachs right? I mean, they helped write it.

[Cavallo]

94. Seriously! She said that 45 times?

[elljay]

118. And then lied about what she said

She then claimed she said that she HOPED it would be the gold standard. This was easily proven false- no wonder she is scared of transcripts!

[Gamecock Lefty]

52. Message to Bernie . . .

Shut the F up and go back to being an Independent.

[cannabis_flower]

71. Bernie has as much right to be a Democrat

as you do - probably more.

[Ned_Devine]

74. Seriously? why wouldn't you want someone liberal in the party?

I personally like him as an "I" but I think he's doing a great service to the party and party faithful by showing that there are still liberals out there that share our values.

[Pauldg47]

76. Yor no lefty!!!!!!!!!

[Jester Messiah]

97. If he does he takes a lot of voters with him.

So maybe you should be careful what you wish for.

[Don Draper]

55. Bernie is right. The clintons are as bad as republicans on trade

Bill Clinton should never be forgiven for nafta. If Hillary becomes president, the TPP is a done deal.

[pdsimdars]

61. TRUTH cleans the soul!

Preach it like it is Bernie!

[PatrickforO]

75. Clinton's trade record IS a disaster, and her recent touting of the TPP prior to

disavowing it (temporarily, I believe), is just wrong. The Third Way people just have it so wrong. TPP will cost this country another million jobs and its ISDS provisions will further undermine our democracy at the local and state levels. It's a BAD idea, and I'm disappointed in Clinton for helping to draft the damned thing under the auspice of 'economic statecraft' and in Obama for allowing it to be negotiated in SECRET and then forcing Congress to do a fast track vote to limit debate.

The whole thing stinks.

[senz]

78. Absolutely true

and very important.

[JDPriestly]

82. Sanders is right. Clinton's trade policies are disastrous for ordinary Americans.

[pdsimdars]

85. A point I haven't seen

is that Obama promised Unions two things, to pass card check which would make it easier to form unions, and he also promised that they would be at the table for any trade deals.
He lied. He didn't do either of these things. Only the corporations were allowed to hammer out the trade deal.

[George II]

87. So then, what is Sanders' "record on trade", specifically?

[Cheese Sandwich]

91. He opposed NAFTA, WTO, Chinese trade deal, TPP, etc.

He's been very reliable on this issue.

[George II]

107. That's not a record "on" trade, its a record against trade.

[Cheese Sandwich]

108. It's a record of defending American jobs.

Of defending workers here and in other countries.

Of protecting the environment from international corporate agreements.

Of standing up for democracy and human rights around the world.

Of protecting consumers from dangerous imports.

It's a record against corporate capitalist control of trade rules.

That's what it means to resist the capitalist trade agenda.

Pro-worker. Pro-environment. Anti-greed and anti-corruption.

[Armstead]

123. a record against BAD TRADE AGREEMENTS

[Cobalt Violet]

92. He has an amazing record on trade!

[link:http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Free_Trade.htm|

[U of M Dem]

90. I am so glad work was cancelled and I got to go to this

rally! The Bern was on point and more aggressive than I have seen. The students around where I was and in line near me had NOTHING nice to say about Hillary. I am glad to see that my generation (millennials) are not buying the third way bullshit.

[MaggieD]

95. Yeah, I call Bullshit on Bernie's comments

Here are some facts. Enjoy.

[Vattel]

105. Lol, she is sticking with her lie in the video you post.

Now she is claiming that she said that TPP "holds out the promise of being the gold standard." In the first debate she pretended to correct Anderson Cooper when Cooper said that she had described TPP as the gold standard of trade agreements. She replied that she had said that she "hoped" that it would be the gold standard.

Truth: She said that it was the gold standard. No "I hope", no "promises to be"

Once again, telling the truth evades her.

[Barack_America]

109. K&R. This is the key to Michigan.

[Cheese Sandwich]

124. I guess so!

Hopefully more states too.

[Babel_17]

114. Hammer this point

The people get it, and want it confirmed where the candidates stand.

[Cheese Sandwich]

122. This is our strongest issue IMO. thanks. nt