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amborin

(16,631 posts)
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:07 PM Mar 2016

"things have now risen to the level of a grand jury investigation"

Immunity Deal Raises Stakes in Clinton Investigation

The immunity deal granted to a former Hillary Clinton staffer indicates the FBI’s investigation into her email practices is accelerating, former prosecutors say.

snip

Still, the immunity deal adds to the appearance of possible misconduct in Clinton’s email practices — and creates more uncertainty for her campaign.

snip

Legal experts say the kind of deal the Department of Justice (DOJ) has struck with Pagliano is common in cases where investigators want to work their way up the food chain in uncovering possible criminal activity.

snip

“If prosecutors confer immunity in a case, in general it means that they at least have some intention of pursuing the matter to a grand jury. Whether they ultimately decide to pull the trigger and press charges is a whole other question,” said Bob Ray, a former federal prosecutor who was head of the Office of the Independent Counsel during the Whitewater investigation of Bill and Hillary Clinton, and current co-chair of Fox Rothschild LLP’s white collar compliance & defense practice.

What the immunity deal does suggest, experts say, is twofold.


First, that investigators believe Pagliano has potentially valuable information that will help them determine whether any laws were broken.

Second, that the Department of Justice is at minimum setting the stage for the possibility of a criminal case.

“It doesn’t necessarily signal that there will be charges. What it does signal is that they are accelerating past the investigation stage and things have now risen to the level of a grand jury investigation,” Ray said.

Legal experts note that the Department of Justice (DOJ) — under whose authority the FBI operates — doesn’t have the power to grant immunity. Federal judges are the only ones with that power, and only at the request of a DOJ prosecutor.

But for a DOJ prosecutor to make such a request is “a pretty significant step,”
Ray argued, one that prosecutors don’t typically take unless they believe the testimony is worth letting go of a smaller fish.

“Prosecutors are in the business of making cases — you don’t hand out immunity unless the hope is it gets you additional evidence that you would not be able to get, and that [the] evidence leads towards being able to perfect a charge,” he said.

Security experts say Pagliano could know a great deal.

“I think of him as Sammy ‘The Bull’ Gravano; he knows where the bodies are buried and he could bring down the whole organization,” said Morgan Wright, a cybersecurity consultant who has worked with tech companies like Cisco and Alcatel-Lucent, referencing the underling who helped bring down mob boss John Gotti.

snip

Perhaps more importantly, Pagliano might have been part of conversations regarding what Clinton’s camp said the server would be used for, and how the team wanted to manage confidential information that could pass through the device.

“Was he told, ‘Oh this server is going to have confidential, or top secret, or secret State Department communications on it?’” Toren said.

All of the conversations with Clinton’s staff at State could give investigators more targets and leads.


“This guy’s low-hanging fruit,” Wright said. “But he’s going to lead them to bigger things.”


http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/271718-immunity-deal-raises-stakes-in-clinton-email-investigation
121 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"things have now risen to the level of a grand jury investigation" (Original Post) amborin Mar 2016 OP
Let me save HRC supporters the trouble of responding Mufaddal Mar 2016 #1
Let me save you some trouble. Darb Mar 2016 #5
Make sure the DoJ and FBI are aware of that. Wilms Mar 2016 #6
It's gonna be a rough day for you Darb Mar 2016 #9
I wasn't aware that the FBI and DOJ were teabaggers. roguevalley Mar 2016 #11
Ahhh, another obtuse one. Darb Mar 2016 #13
It would be something, wouldn't it RobertEarl Mar 2016 #17
Hillary Obsessors read all kind of things Darb Mar 2016 #18
Some of the logic being displayed by the True Believers Press Virginia Mar 2016 #54
If it is 'true belief' TM99 Mar 2016 #66
See, this is what happens when you're banned from the Hillary group. We end up with FailureToCommunicate Mar 2016 #68
Cult behavior. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #87
This ^^^^^ libdem4life Mar 2016 #89
Yes! I'd read about it, but to see it in action ... senz Mar 2016 #98
Oh be sure to add the love going the other way Arazi Mar 2016 #103
obtuse one? let me reply simply too ... roguevalley Mar 2016 #35
That Gwhittey Mar 2016 #83
Really? Wilms Mar 2016 #12
Do you really believe the nonsense you post? I mean seriously? BillZBubb Mar 2016 #63
It wouldn't have progressed to this point if there wasn't a prima facie felony case leveymg Mar 2016 #104
If the FBI recommends it, a grand jury will be convened. BillZBubb Mar 2016 #109
Ugh. I knew I left something out. Thanks! Mufaddal Mar 2016 #7
Let me correct that for you....#3 Darb Mar 2016 #10
That follows the principle of... Kittycat Mar 2016 #25
You are brilliant, sir! pdsimdars Mar 2016 #27
I'll bet they do Jack Rabbit Mar 2016 #24
The FBI and DOJ also want this matter resolved as soon as possible ... salinsky Mar 2016 #29
If that was the case then their actions are gonna cost her some votes d_legendary1 Mar 2016 #36
That's what they should want to do Jack Rabbit Mar 2016 #40
They gave him immunity because he can implicate his superiors in a crime Press Virginia Mar 2016 #107
Philosophical question: do witchhunts ever find what they're looking for? dchill Mar 2016 #44
Depends. Are you talking before or after evidence is destroyed or people lie under oath or refuse merrily Mar 2016 #59
Excellent question, madam. senz Mar 2016 #106
Question: If Hillary doesn't release her paid speeches to Unknown Beatle Mar 2016 #93
Which is precisely why Hillary should NOT be the Dem nominee. She's a slow-mo train wreck 99th_Monkey Mar 2016 #57
daily best headline when that happens Gwhittey Mar 2016 #85
Why do you care what TBs or anyone else does. IS there a problem with this candidate sabrina 1 Mar 2016 #65
You forgot to claim this is Benghazi. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2016 #38
Isn't everything--unless it's Whitewater? merrily Mar 2016 #61
I'm not a Hillary supporter but this is all crap! snowy owl Mar 2016 #81
Er No they didnt Rilgin Mar 2016 #117
Thanks. Can we count on you to be our filter for such crap in the future? politicaljunkie41910 Mar 2016 #112
K & R AzDar Mar 2016 #2
This is just a nightmare. Punkingal Mar 2016 #3
she is not going to be indicted 6chars Mar 2016 #64
It's the questions it will raise in people's minds that is a problem. Punkingal Mar 2016 #95
She is a very troubled candidate AgingAmerican Mar 2016 #4
As we knew she would be pscot Mar 2016 #43
but she's more electable, you know Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #48
That's only true pscot Mar 2016 #74
Jesus, ok that does it. after I do the story in the morinng nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #8
Hi! Have missed you recently. Duval Mar 2016 #21
A waste of taxpayer's money. Cleita Mar 2016 #14
Hillary is the closest thing we have to a Queen, so, I guess, in some ways, she's considered to be above the law. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2016 #77
To be fair, not just her, but those who have achieved a position in life where they are Cleita Mar 2016 #79
Fair enough, but Hillary and her followers think she has an even higher privileged "status" as the presumptive Democratic nominee.... InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2016 #114
Most of the hit pieces on Clinton come from NY Post, Newsmax, The Hill Hawaii Hiker Mar 2016 #15
You forgot Travelgate and Christmascardgate wryter2000 Mar 2016 #19
"Hit pieces" in the media are irrelevant to the FBI investigation. Maedhros Mar 2016 #26
In europe they don't pretend to be neutral nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #30
you left something out... magical thyme Mar 2016 #31
This is the email that has Hillary in so much hot water Oilwellian Mar 2016 #90
Couldn't agree more Boomer Mar 2016 #33
Are you saying the FBI is now making this is a manufactured witch hunt? andrewv1 Mar 2016 #52
Witch hunt? The FBI is part of the Executive Branch under a Democratic President. merrily Mar 2016 #67
"Witch hunt" aspirant Mar 2016 #94
No clue. I've never participated in one. merrily Mar 2016 #102
This message was self-deleted by its author FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #45
Now, that's just over the top Wednesdays Mar 2016 #120
wasn't the original piece that started this whole mess in the NYTimes? Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #53
Another way to look at this Gwhittey Mar 2016 #86
if you've "never seen" such an effort, then you must have missed the 90s nashville_brook Mar 2016 #119
Simpler explanations are usually closer to the truth. randome Mar 2016 #16
Yes, anyone caught in the wake of the Republican witchhunt... yallerdawg Mar 2016 #22
I disagree with the premise. malthaussen Mar 2016 #20
Agreed. But I hope that this is taken care of before we make jwirr Mar 2016 #34
Abbe Lowell.......significant atty as counsel for the Democratic Party.. grasswire Mar 2016 #42
GOP BernBots Cryptoad Mar 2016 #23
Quick, send this to the FBI, they can now stop wasting taxpayer money pdsimdars Mar 2016 #32
actually, Washington Post says there is a criminal investigation tomm2thumbs Mar 2016 #39
Beter yet. Turn it over to a DU jury. Fuddnik Mar 2016 #62
Wow. Every one of your bullet points is intended to mislead jeff47 Mar 2016 #41
Aren't there TWO pugetres Mar 2016 #50
The backup is just an image. It's not an actual server. jeff47 Mar 2016 #55
Ahh. Thank you. pugetres Mar 2016 #73
The FBI has three servers nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #78
"three servers" aspirant Mar 2016 #96
One is a mirror, the third one i have no idea nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #97
But isn't this sort of defense the Clintons in a nutshell? Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #51
How dare you question the validity of a black square with text on it! arcane1 Mar 2016 #70
Washington Post: January 29, 2016 k8conant Mar 2016 #58
Dreams Faux pas Mar 2016 #28
hey it's good for ratings olddots Mar 2016 #37
This birdie is gonna sing... Helen Borg Mar 2016 #46
Perhaps there should be a widespread audit Zambero Mar 2016 #47
She's was SOS and is running for President. That makes her different from my Rep. merrily Mar 2016 #69
Is anyone immune from "gotcha" politics? Zambero Mar 2016 #92
Actually, the Clintons seem to be immune from everything, with reality never altering the merrily Mar 2016 #100
This is yet another reason for Bernie to stay in the race and stay competitive Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #49
that IS indeed, the bottom line!! BigBearJohn Mar 2016 #60
Keep donating. He will stay in until the end if he has the money so to do and America needs to hear merrily Mar 2016 #71
yep! I've donated quite a bit already Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #84
Yawn... Mike Nelson Mar 2016 #56
According to whom? Brock? hillaryclinton.com? Her campaign surrogates, who are taking the word merrily Mar 2016 #72
WaPo's Paul Waldman: No, Clinton will not be indicted; the email issue is a non-scandal Gothmog Mar 2016 #75
Waldman, from Brock's mediamatters? Shocker! He should tell Obama's FBI to stop wasting tax $$ merrily Mar 2016 #105
The liberal group Media Matters? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #113
Um, no. Brock's group. Brock is no liberal. Never was. Isn't now. Bernie smear machine, too. merrily Mar 2016 #116
Two Clintons. 41 Years. $3 Billion. Inside The Clinton Donor Network (Washington Post 11-19-15) bobthedrummer Mar 2016 #76
I wish the FBI would read DU so they would know there's absolutely nothing to this. Karmadillo Mar 2016 #80
The cognitive dissonance on display is remarkable angrychair Mar 2016 #82
Obama had the same donors, but he was never skewered for it. Talk about cognitive dissonance. nt BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #88
Ny times April 12, 2023 Gwhittey Mar 2016 #91
Obama's FBI and DOJ are out to get Hillary! senz Mar 2016 #99
Nor should they be! Let the chips fall where they may. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2016 #115
Have we ever determined where she put the server? aspirant Mar 2016 #101
Well, perhaps appropriately, it was kept in a bathroom senz Mar 2016 #118
If this were legit it would be on NBC, CBS, in the New York Times, etc. n/t gollygee Mar 2016 #108
That's the funniest comment of the day! BillZBubb Mar 2016 #110
Recommendation 101 H2O Man Mar 2016 #111
Hear ye, hear ye...n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2016 #121

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
1. Let me save HRC supporters the trouble of responding
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:12 PM
Mar 2016

1) There's a problem with the source, so all points in the article are invalid
2) There's a Republican quoted somewhere, so all points in the article are invalid

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
9. It's gonna be a rough day for you
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:20 PM
Mar 2016

when the FBI and Justice smash this farce with an ridiculously huge hammer.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
13. Ahhh, another obtuse one.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:30 PM
Mar 2016

Let me spell it out for you. Obama put the FBI and Justice on the case to separate the facts from the Teabagger, Republican led bullshit. In order to put it to bed, officially (and with extreme prejudice I might add) they need the force of law. Which is what it is getting. I just find it curious that so many Bernies are so infatuated with this Bagger witch hunt? Any ideas?

Now when it happens, and it is coming soon, enjoy!

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
17. It would be something, wouldn't it
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:56 PM
Mar 2016

If the hated teabaggers actually saved us from a whole lot of misery?

I see you think Obama is conspiring to make a federal case out of this to save it from becoming a federal case. Which, when seen that way is horse honky, but there you have it. Bwahahahaha

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
18. Hillary Obsessors read all kind of things
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:01 PM
Mar 2016

into situations which just are not there. No sense discussing it further, as another poster said, you want Stephan to break his leg.

Too bad.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
54. Some of the logic being displayed by the True Believers
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:46 PM
Mar 2016

is mind bending.

From what I've been able to put together...it's a RW smear job thought up by Bernie Sanders and headed up by Obama appointees who direct the RW partisans in the FBI to target HRC because Bernie can't win the black vote......and Colin Powell something.

It's all very confusing

 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
66. If it is 'true belief'
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:10 PM
Mar 2016

then it is not logical.

Just ignore that poster. They have a nasty habit of baiting and rude responses that never actually answer any of the rational arguments being presented.

FailureToCommunicate

(14,012 posts)
68. See, this is what happens when you're banned from the Hillary group. We end up with
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:15 PM
Mar 2016

just that kind of confusion. It's a failure to communicate...



'Some folks you just can't reach'

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
87. Cult behavior.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:47 PM
Mar 2016

"The cult figure is never wrong. The cult figure is perfect. The cult figure loves you."

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
98. Yes! I'd read about it, but to see it in action ...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 08:55 PM
Mar 2016

amazing! It's like they're hypnotized. Rather unsettling.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
35. obtuse one? let me reply simply too ...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:48 PM
Mar 2016

$@×÷%€,# and #^*€.

Have a nice day.

Alert on 3 ... 2 ...

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
83. That
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:29 PM
Mar 2016

is assuming Obama is not trying to hang her out to dry. I mean I think I would be kinda of pissed at someone who used race baiting against me in a primary and then was staying in after losing to force a deal to become Secretary of State. I don't think Obama wants a Watergate as his legacy as first African America POTUS.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
63. Do you really believe the nonsense you post? I mean seriously?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:06 PM
Mar 2016

The FBI doesn't do investigations unless their is prima facie evidence of a felony. They have found something that doesn't pass the smell test. Of course it may turn out to be a misunderstanding. The fact that they are starting to offer immunity to the lower level people suggests they think there is definitely a violation here.

What the tea-baggers believe or want is immaterial. What you believe or want is immaterial. An FBI investigation of this sort could be a ticking time bomb since we do not have a clue what the FBI has found and why they feel it necessary to continue investigating.

You may bring up true witch hunts like Benghazi or Whitewater. Those are right wing nonsense. But, this is more like Watergate. As the investigators dig, they find more and more evidence.

Will Hillary be indicted for anything? Who knows. But for you to stick you head in the sand and try to belittle those who think it is a definite possibility smacks more of right wing tactics than what anybody else is doing.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
104. It wouldn't have progressed to this point if there wasn't a prima facie felony case
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:09 PM
Mar 2016

The ultimate decision whether to convene a Grand Jury will be a political calculus for the Administration. Which course creates less damage? Either way, she has fucked over the Democratic Party. Thanks, Hill.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
109. If the FBI recommends it, a grand jury will be convened.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:33 PM
Mar 2016

President Obama is not going to ruin his legacy to protect Hillary. You can take that to the bank.

Mufaddal

(1,021 posts)
7. Ugh. I knew I left something out. Thanks!
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:19 PM
Mar 2016

3) Because a person or group with whom I disagree finds my preferred candidate's behavior problematic, therefore my preferred candidate's behavior is unproblematic.

 

Darb

(2,807 posts)
10. Let me correct that for you....#3
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:23 PM
Mar 2016

3) Because a person or group that has never been right before about a goddamned thing, with whom I disagree, and find pathetic that people on the DU actually align themselves with, curiously, finds my preferred candidate's behavior problematic, I dismiss it with a grain of salt.

That's better.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
25. That follows the principle of...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:32 PM
Mar 2016

Voter suppression and electioneering is only bad when the other guys do it. Or as I'm learning, follow the money, unless you're Hillary.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
24. I'll bet they do
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:32 PM
Mar 2016

However, since the tea baggers' version of the Spanish Inquisition has nothing to do with this, other than cheering it on from the peanut gallery, your characterization of an FBI/DoJ investigation as a witch hunt is a bit like the man behind the curtain saying "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

Just to alleviate a fear, you might harbor about me, I hope this matter is resolved soon and the sooner the better and with no charges being filed.

However, that does not excuse one from dismissing the matter as a right wing conspiracy when there is no evidence that this is a right wing conspiracy. DoJ does not immunize a witness for no reason. You really should be a little bit concerned.

salinsky

(1,065 posts)
29. The FBI and DOJ also want this matter resolved as soon as possible ...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:40 PM
Mar 2016

... and, that is the purpose of the immunity deal.

They see that we have a presumptive Democratic nominee for President, and have no interest in even the appearance of attempting to influence a presidential election.

They're wrapping things up, and the immunity deal will expedite the process.

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
36. If that was the case then their actions are gonna cost her some votes
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:52 PM
Mar 2016

She's already got a trust problem with the public and these investigations by the authorities aren't helping her case.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
107. They gave him immunity because he can implicate his superiors in a crime
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:24 PM
Mar 2016

It's time to come to terms with the fact that there will be indictments the only question is how high up the chain they go.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
59. Depends. Are you talking before or after evidence is destroyed or people lie under oath or refuse
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:00 PM
Mar 2016

to answer at all?

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
93. Question: If Hillary doesn't release her paid speeches to
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 08:07 PM
Mar 2016

Goldman Sachs, does it mean she's got something to hide? If she doesn't have anything to hide, why not release the transcripts.

Oh, what a tangled web Hillary weaves.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
57. Which is precisely why Hillary should NOT be the Dem nominee. She's a slow-mo train wreck
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:57 PM
Mar 2016

of epic proportions, and the RW will have a field day with her in the GE.

Oh, and would you be so dismissive of this as "RW propaganda" if the FBI had 100+
agents investigating Bernie Sanders for suspected mis-deeds and possible criminal
activity? Tell me true: what would you be saying, if this was about Sanders?

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
85. daily best headline when that happens
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:45 PM
Mar 2016

"FBI are investigating Sanders in possible connection to KKK and involvement in Freedom Summer Murders"

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
65. Why do you care what TBs or anyone else does. IS there a problem with this candidate
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:08 PM
Mar 2016

that could put a Republican in the WH? This information is not coming from the Repubs in Congress, most of which I ignored. THIS is from Obama's DOJ and the FBI.

I can only imagine of this was Bernie the howls of 'he needs to go, he will bring down the party' etc You know what IF this was my candidate I would be the first to ask him to suspend his campaign because for me, this country matters WAY MORE than any individual politician.

But your'e right about one thing, Repubs are staying pretty silent on this right now, except for one.

Trump gave us a preview of how the GE will look IF Hillary gets the nomination.

'I can't wait to go head to head with Hillary. Well, if she isn't arrested before that' and the applause was deafening.

So the DNC who forced resignations from some very good Dems for minor stuff is ignoring the ramifications of this to our country and to the Dem Party.

Why?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
61. Isn't everything--unless it's Whitewater?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:03 PM
Mar 2016
Whitewater grand jury and civil contempt of court

During the grand jury, McDougal stated her full name "for the record" and then refused to answer any questions. In her book, McDougal explained, "I feared being accused of perjury if I told the grand jury the truth. The OIC had accepted David Hale's lies as the truth. They were also now relying on Jim McDougal's lies, which they'd carefully helped him construct. If I came in and directly contradicted those two -- whose testimony had been used to convict me of four felonies -- I feared the OIC would next accuse me of perjury." She also writes that she feared the same fate as Julie Hiatt Steele,[8] who had contradicted the testimony of White House aide Kathleen Willey: "Simply telling the truth cost Steele everything she had, almost landed her in jail [for perjury], and jeopardized her custody of her adopted son."[9]

McDougal's grand jury testimony included her response, "Get another independent counsel and I'll answer every question."[10] She was publicly rebuked for refusing to answer "three questions"[11] about whether President Clinton had lied in his testimony during her Whitewater trial, particularly when he denied any knowledge of an illegal $300,000 loan. U.S. District Court Judge Susan Webber Wright sentenced her for civil contempt of court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_McDougal

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
81. I'm not a Hillary supporter but this is all crap!
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:08 PM
Mar 2016

Previous secretaries of state have used servers so what is the big deal? Why does our government waste so much time and energy on stupid stuff?

Rilgin

(787 posts)
117. Er No they didnt
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:22 AM
Mar 2016

This is the excuse that is being used but its not true. Here is an article that is favorable to Hillary that will explain the difference in the practices. The conclusion of the article is wrong but it will show you what previous SOS used.

Neither Rice nor Powell created their own Servers. Both Rice and Powell had government email accounts for classified use and a private one for personal use. So Powell sent business emails on a .gov account. He sent his personal emails on whatever account he wanted. The article said it was an AOL account. Understand this is the proper way. The article said that he did wrong by occasionally emailing what should have been government business on his personal aol email account. This is clearly wrong but is not setting up your own server to do ALL your government business on your own server. Hillary did not use any .gov email. Further I would have no problem is Powell got in trouble for this although its more mixing emails rather than sole reliance on an outside server.

http://www.newsweek.com/colin-powell-emails-hillary-clinton-424187

Personally I do not care about the classified aspects of this. I am for open government. The truth is she did this so she controlled the release of emails that were subject to FOIA requests because they were not stored on a government server available to people processing such requests. Upon leaving office, she was totally silent that her work emails were not being archived in the government records. She provided them only when it because an issue much later.

This is unacceptable to people who believe in sunshine laws and accountable politicians of both the democratic and republican stripe. In fact, we democrats have given a lot of criticism to the email practices and outside government communications of republicans through the years.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
112. Thanks. Can we count on you to be our filter for such crap in the future?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:41 PM
Mar 2016

It's a sad commentary that Bernie Supporters only reason for waking up in the morning is to scavenge the print media for any crap they can find regarding Hillary. You'd think they'd be so enthralled with their own candidate that they wouldn't have to resort to such matters. But whatever keeps them feeling warm and fuzzy at night.

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
95. It's the questions it will raise in people's minds that is a problem.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 08:40 PM
Mar 2016

Independents, and people who don't want Trump. I don't think she will be indicted either. It's still a problem of perception.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
43. As we knew she would be
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:15 PM
Mar 2016

This should come as no surprise to anyone who's been paying attention for the last 25 years.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
8. Jesus, ok that does it. after I do the story in the morinng
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:20 PM
Mar 2016

I need to start a fracking timeline... will be useful I suspect, when I have to finally explain to my readers what the fuck happened here? And please, please, pretty please, Reuters, AP, anybody, do a nuts and bolts article on how this shit works. I can't... and I do know how this shit works. But I need somebody among you guys to do it first.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
14. A waste of taxpayer's money.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:32 PM
Mar 2016

Bill and Hillary Clinton are above the law as all other Presidents and First Ladies before them, in this and the last century, have been. No court of law will indict her in the end.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
77. Hillary is the closest thing we have to a Queen, so, I guess, in some ways, she's considered to be above the law.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:38 PM
Mar 2016

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
79. To be fair, not just her, but those who have achieved a position in life where they are
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:42 PM
Mar 2016

untouchable.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
114. Fair enough, but Hillary and her followers think she has an even higher privileged "status" as the presumptive Democratic nominee....
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:50 PM
Mar 2016

I certainly don't agree with that thinking, but understand how some misguided political-minded people do.

All the more reason to nominate an authentic progressive like Bernie!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

Hawaii Hiker

(3,165 posts)
15. Most of the hit pieces on Clinton come from NY Post, Newsmax, The Hill
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:34 PM
Mar 2016

I've never seen such an effort in my life to take down a political opponent....These people will stop at nothing to find her guilty of treason...

Once again, the emails on her server were not marked classified at the time they were sent or received....Only later where they deemed classified....Unlike General Petraeus who not only lied to FBI, he shared information with his biographer/mistress that he KNEW was classified...Furthermore, there is audio of him admitting the info was classified....And, as Director of CIA, he likely had more sensitive info than Clinton ever had as Secretary of State....

And, there was no evidence of hacking on Clinton's server...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/04/us/politics/security-logs-of-hillary-clintons-email-server-are-said-to-show-no-evidence-of-hacking.html

Let the witch hunt continue.....Soon enough, the right will dig up Vince Foster, Whitewater, Monica, then perhaps Hillary's college & law school transcripts....

wryter2000

(46,037 posts)
19. You forgot Travelgate and Christmascardgate
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:05 PM
Mar 2016

And of course, if she were real woman, Bill would never have cheated.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
26. "Hit pieces" in the media are irrelevant to the FBI investigation.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:37 PM
Mar 2016

The investigation exists. It is moving forward. The FBI is building a case. These are facts, independent of how media outlets choose to report (or not report) them.

Yes, some media outlets will be more eager than others to report bad news for Clinton. Some media outlets are in the tank FOR Clinton, just as some are AGAINST. Likely neither are telling us the whole truth.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
30. In europe they don't pretend to be neutral
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:41 PM
Mar 2016

and to be honest, Newsmax does not pretend to be neutral, But this is now a real investigation.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
31. you left something out...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:42 PM
Mar 2016

"the emails on her server were not marked classified at the time they were sent or received....Only later where they deemed classified"

by the State Dept (after consultation with other departments).

On some emails the information and data appears to have been sourced outside of State Dept. Some of the info on that server was classified "from birth," so either somebody somewhere either failed to properly mark it or removed the headings. There is nothing that says that info wasn't copied from other sources, with their headings left out. From what I've read, that's part of what the FBI has been trying to sort out.

Also, the one thing seems forgotten by all that also would be material info is who instructed Pagliano to erase the server, and when did they give him those instructions?

Because iirc, Hillary stonewalled the FBI re: turning over her server for a few months before finally handing over an erased server. Did Pagliano erase it prior to the FBI's request? Or after? Only one of these scenarios would not qualify as obstruction of justice.

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
90. This is the email that has Hillary in so much hot water
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:54 PM
Mar 2016

She gave her staffer the order to remove the header of documents that should have been sent via a secure fax machine, and to email the confidential documents instead. Read the email exchange between Hillary and Jake Sullivan from the bottom up.

Boomer

(4,168 posts)
33. Couldn't agree more
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:44 PM
Mar 2016

As a Sanders supporter, I have some reservations about HRC as a candidate, but this email "scandal" is not one of them. This is a manufactured witch hunt and it does all of us -- Democratic Party and country -- more damage than good. I want Bernie to win on his own merits, not because he's the default Last Man Standing after a Republican hatchet job.

andrewv1

(168 posts)
52. Are you saying the FBI is now making this is a manufactured witch hunt?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:44 PM
Mar 2016

Oh & btw, do you think that maybe the MSM & HRC supporters are wanting Hillary to be the "Last Woman Standing" in how they are trying to push Sanders out of the race?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
67. Witch hunt? The FBI is part of the Executive Branch under a Democratic President.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:10 PM
Mar 2016

This is my recollection of the facts, though I could be wrong: This is not about a private email account, which we all have. She set up a private server in her home, got an FOIA request for her emails, took two years to begin to comply and wiped her server before she began to comply. One of her defenses is that nothing was marked classified when sent or received. It's part her job to classify--and evidence is showing she had aides remove the classified marking before they emailed something. The guy who set up the server for her took the Fifth as soon as they tried to question him.

What part of that screams FBI witch hunt during the Obama administration?

Response to Hawaii Hiker (Reply #15)

Wednesdays

(17,342 posts)
120. Now, that's just over the top
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:17 AM
Mar 2016

We can be concerned, worried, but still not hope for the worst.
It's like a bystander near a bad car wreck saying, "I cannot wait to see somebody die from this."

(And FWIW, my entire family voted for Bernie Sanders.)

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
86. Another way to look at this
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:47 PM
Mar 2016

is that other paper which are too busy printing "Clinton Won DNC primary" since SC are too much in her corner to print anything?

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
119. if you've "never seen" such an effort, then you must have missed the 90s
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 10:54 AM
Mar 2016

the opposition will wait until she has the nomination to subpoena her. that will put in her campaign and screw our chances of beating whoever the Rs put up in their brokered/crooked convention.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
16. Simpler explanations are usually closer to the truth.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 02:39 PM
Mar 2016

Especially when a narrative conveniently fits what one wants to hear is the time to run the scenario through some harsh internal filters to see if it survives.

The most plausible explanation I've seen is that Pagliano only pleaded the 5th in front of Congress to avoid being made a party to their witch hunt and getting immunity now will inoculate him from that further.

That's not an 'excuse', it seems to be more plausible, IMO.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
22. Yes, anyone caught in the wake of the Republican witchhunt...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:28 PM
Mar 2016

better get immunity before clearing any Clinton!

Already, logs turned over by Pagliano document no hacking. No, that is not the end of that!

The shame of it all, here it is on a Democratic website.

Now you can bet they have something to work with!

malthaussen

(17,187 posts)
20. I disagree with the premise.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:10 PM
Mar 2016

"the immunity deal adds to the appearance of possible misconduct in Clinton’s email practices"

What it does is add to the presumption that the FBI are serious about their investigation, which we should hope they are, eh? But an investigation does not equate with guilt, nor should it equate with an "appearance" of guilt. Not an actionable statement, but not a truthful one, either.

-- Mal

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
34. Agreed. But I hope that this is taken care of before we make
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:46 PM
Mar 2016

the mistake of making her our nominee and then find out they have indicted her. I do not want to lose to trump by default.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
42. Abbe Lowell.......significant atty as counsel for the Democratic Party..
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:11 PM
Mar 2016

...in Bush v. Gore said last night on TV that the FBI will make its determination by May.

I hope so.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
32. Quick, send this to the FBI, they can now stop wasting taxpayer money
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:43 PM
Mar 2016

The Hillary supporters know it all already.
The job of the FBI is over!

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
39. actually, Washington Post says there is a criminal investigation
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:05 PM
Mar 2016


The Justice Department has granted immunity to a former State Department staffer, who worked on Hillary Clinton’s private email server, as part of a criminal investigation into the possible mishandling of classified information, according to a senior law enforcement official.

The official said the FBI had secured the cooperation of Bryan Pagliano, who worked on Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign before setting up the server in her New York home in 2009.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-clinton-email-investigation-justice-department-grants-immunity-to-former-state-department-staffer/2016/03/02/e421e39e-e0a0-11e5-9c36-e1902f6b6571_story.html

so they probably need to update that graphic...

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
41. Wow. Every one of your bullet points is intended to mislead
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:11 PM
Mar 2016

while barely clinging to being technically accurate.

That's excellent spin right there!

-Marking is not classification. Unmarked things can be classified.

-Emails were deleted, in that someone hit "delete" on their email client. It's a fluke of email systems that hitting "delete" does not actually purge the message from the server.

-The FBI requested she turn over her server, and she complied. It is correct that the FBI did not have to forcibly take possession of it.

-There is a criminal investigation, at the moment Clinton is not named as the target of that investigation.

-Using a private server for unclassified email was not illegal. Using a private server for classified information has been illegal since 1947.

 

pugetres

(507 posts)
50. Aren't there TWO
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:40 PM
Mar 2016

servers at the heart of the issue?

The original (which may or not have been hacked twice in 2012 by someone in Serbia?) that was turned over by Clinton and the *backup* server (which didn't get hacked?) she had Datto Inc. make when she left office in 2013? That backup server was turned over to the FBI by Datto and not Clinton?

I cannot seem to keep up with which server people are talking about!

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
55. The backup is just an image. It's not an actual server.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:48 PM
Mar 2016

They made a copy of the server's hard disk(s).

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
97. One is a mirror, the third one i have no idea
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 08:47 PM
Mar 2016

I have been following this closely and part of the problem is that stories mention anywhere from 1 to 3 servers.

IMHO media has been sloppy as hell. But they do have the servers.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
51. But isn't this sort of defense the Clintons in a nutshell?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:42 PM
Mar 2016

And we're always having to defend them against something or another?

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
70. How dare you question the validity of a black square with text on it!
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:17 PM
Mar 2016

Don't you know that's the only source of reliable information in the Internet Age?

k8conant

(3,030 posts)
58. Washington Post: January 29, 2016
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:57 PM
Mar 2016

"The State Department’s conclusion came as it has worked to process 55,000 pages of Clinton’s correspondence for public release, including about 1,000 pages that were released Friday night. Clinton has said that she deleted 31,000 additional emails in 2014, deeming them purely personal."

Faux pas

(14,667 posts)
28. Dreams
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:39 PM
Mar 2016

can come true if you're willing to wait for them. I don't want to wait much longer though. If they're gonna take her down, sooner would be so much better than later.

Zambero

(8,964 posts)
47. Perhaps there should be a widespread audit
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:21 PM
Mar 2016

Of ALL members of Congress, their staffers, and the Executive branch to determine how widespread improprieties might be in regard to use of personal servers. This whole saga begs the question of what is driving this particular investigation. Is it examining the possibility of specific security breaches unique to Hillary's correspondence, or does it amount to yet another attempt to make political hay out of a practice that is routinely accepted or commonplace across the federal government, particularly as relates to "retroactive" classification of documents? I don't know the answer, but it be good to know just the same.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
69. She's was SOS and is running for President. That makes her different from my Rep.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:15 PM
Mar 2016

Besides, I don't know how it was at your home, but "Bobby did it, too" didn't work for me when I was 3 years old and running only for not getting a spanking. Why should it work for a 67 year old running for POTUS?

Zambero

(8,964 posts)
92. Is anyone immune from "gotcha" politics?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 07:31 PM
Mar 2016

Perception has and always will equal reality. It might get to the point where people are so desensitized by the barrage of 24/7 media-spun allegations and accusations that serious stuff gets brushed off. My particular question dealt with non-classified information or documents distributed through personal non-secured channels BEFORE someone actually decided they would be classified at some later date. It doesn't matter whether it's from the SOS, CIA, FBI, or dog catcher, psychic abilities to forecast what information might not be shared at some later date is sketchy at best. I'm leaning Bernie by the way.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
100. Actually, the Clintons seem to be immune from everything, with reality never altering the
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:00 PM
Mar 2016

perception of their supporters that they've never done anything wrong and are only innocent victims of Republicans and/or media.

Let's just say that I see the facts very, very differently than you do.


FYI, who people support or don't support does not affect my reaction to the content of their posts. I hope it doesn't affect anyone's reaction.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
49. This is yet another reason for Bernie to stay in the race and stay competitive
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:36 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Last thing we need is for Bernie to get out, and the have Hillary get indicted.

Mike Nelson

(9,951 posts)
56. Yawn...
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:50 PM
Mar 2016

...good they're wrapping this up... too bad Hillary didn't put more on her server - it was more secure than the US Government's!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
72. According to whom? Brock? hillaryclinton.com? Her campaign surrogates, who are taking the word
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:23 PM
Mar 2016

of hillaryclinton.com?

Gothmog

(145,130 posts)
75. WaPo's Paul Waldman: No, Clinton will not be indicted; the email issue is a non-scandal
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:32 PM
Mar 2016

There will be no indictment http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/4/1495858/-WaPo-s-Paul-Waldman-No-Clinton-will-not-be-indicted-and-the-email-issue-is-a-non-scandal

Calling the email issue a non-scandal, progressive writer Paul Waldman today wrote,

“ For Clinton to be charged with mishandling classified information, she would have had to knowingly passed such information to someone not authorized to have it — like David Petraeus showing classified documents to his mistress — or acted with such gross negligence that people without authorization were bound to see it. According to what we know, neither of those things happened.
"
He went on,

In recent weeks, I’ve had a couple of liberal friends and relatives ask me, with something approaching panic, “I just heard that Clinton is about to be indicted. Is that true?!?” The answer is no, but they heard that because it’s something conservatives say constantly. Tune to to talk radio or surf through conservative web sites, and before long you’ll hear someone say that the Clinton indictment is coming any day now. Donald Trump, with his characteristically tenuous relationship to reality, frequently says that she’s about to be indicted or that she won’t be permitted to run for president because she’ll be on trial. It hasn’t happened and it won’t happen, but that isn’t going to stop them from saying it.



merrily

(45,251 posts)
105. Waldman, from Brock's mediamatters? Shocker! He should tell Obama's FBI to stop wasting tax $$
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:10 PM
Mar 2016

on this heinously unfounded investigation "right fscking now."

https://www.google.com/search?q=Paul+waldman+wikipedia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

merrily

(45,251 posts)
116. Um, no. Brock's group. Brock is no liberal. Never was. Isn't now. Bernie smear machine, too.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:53 PM
Mar 2016

Thanks, too, for attempting the double standards for which many Hillary supporters at DU have made themselves so famous on this board, but it's very crowded under the Hillary bus--crowded with real liberals, I might add, not Brock type (snort) "liberals."

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
76. Two Clintons. 41 Years. $3 Billion. Inside The Clinton Donor Network (Washington Post 11-19-15)
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:37 PM
Mar 2016

"Both Clintons declined to be interviewed or comment for this article."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/clinton-money

Drip, drip, drip

angrychair

(8,695 posts)
82. The cognitive dissonance on display is remarkable
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:24 PM
Mar 2016

First and foremost, when I realized my personal values and beliefs aligned me wiith the Democratic Party and I started participating in Democratic Party efforts I was never told that a major part of my work would constantly defending the Clintons. Not what I signed up to do.
Obama has always been different. Almost all of the hate and discontent is bigoted demagoguery. Very little about actual policy or accomplishments. Obama is an amazing president and human being and I will happily defend his name against that bigoted demagoguery.
The Clintons are different. It seems like a regular thing, that as a Democrat, people challenge or expect you to have to "defend" the Clinton name because of this thing or that. Funny, I don't have to do that with anyone else, not the Obamas, not the Carters, not the Johnsons and not the Kennedys. Just the Clintons.
My only hope is that, one day, a day will come when the Clinton's have faded from politics and we have moved on as a Democratic Party with new people and new ideas and a new way of going about our politics. I may be a hundred years old but I will dance a little dance and smile.

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
91. Ny times April 12, 2023
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 06:59 PM
Mar 2016

"Chelsea Victoria Clinton today has announced on Sunday that she would seek the presidency for a second time, immediately establishing herself as the likely 2024 Democratic nominee."

aspirant

(3,533 posts)
101. Have we ever determined where she put the server?
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:03 PM
Mar 2016

Was it in the bathroom, a closet, the basement, under the bed or the garage?

I think we can take away some relevance on its location as to how Hills views doing the people's business.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
118. Well, perhaps appropriately, it was kept in a bathroom
Sat Mar 5, 2016, 04:21 AM
Mar 2016

or so I heard. So people could do their business right next to where Hill did the people's business.

I don't even like to think about it.

H2O Man

(73,536 posts)
111. Recommendation 101
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:40 PM
Mar 2016

This is disturbing. Although I agree with my friends who support Hillary that Ms. Clinton will almost certainly not be charged with any wrong-doing, it appears possible that someone else associated with her could be. And that would be damaging to her campaign -- obviously more so if she is the party's nominee for the general election.

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