What Hillary supporters don't understand:

[Live and Learn]

Last edited Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:24 AM - Edit history (1)

This election is not about personalities, sexes or races. This election is about:

Whether or not we can save the planet and survive as a species.

Whether we as a species can share resources and be fair to all people.

Whether we will believe people have a right to life by giving everyone access to health care and needed drugs.

Whether we think people should be free or easily imprisoned.

Whether we believe people have a right to privacy.

Whether we believe people are equal regardless of race, sex, orientation or religion (or anything else). (Can anyone say ERA? Bernie is the ONLY candidate that does.)

Whether we believe people have a right to earn a living wage.

Whether we believe people that are not in the mainstream have a right to live a descent life including food, shelter and medical care (even if they can't work or are unable to get a job).

Whether we believe that people that can and want to work should be able to do so.

Whether we believe people have a RIGHT to be educated and to learn all they can.

Whether we believe we should invade other countries to secure corporation wants.

Whether we believe law enforcement has the right to kill people simply for not being able to or refusing to OBEY them.

Whether we believe people should be able to retire and be taken care of when they can no longer work.

Whether we believe we should all be forced to work until our very last breath while our young go without jobs.

Whether we believe that some people deserve billions while others deserve nothing.

Whether we believe some people are more equal than others.

I could go on but I think you get the picture.

We will not and can not give up. FEEL THE BERN!!

[AtomicKitten]

1. It's not about identity politics or cult of personality.

It's all about policy.

Great OP. k/r

[Live and Learn]

39. +1000 and ty nt

[randome]

48. Do you not see the irony in that statement? Not a cult of personality yet 'feel the Bern'?

Most of us didn't even know who Sanders was before 8 months ago.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

63. But it's not about Bernie

We would support anyone who fought for these ideas the way he has. It's just rare to find a politician like him who has walked the walk his whole life without being corrupted.

[Gwhittey]

70. If Sen Warren was inSanders place

I will give you 100 to 1 odds that we would be Warren supporters. It is about Getting money in politics for a great many Sanders supporters. We have been watching politics closely via news from internet and not using TV as our 1 and only source of news. We have watch Clinton time after time support pro-corporation trade agreements, Pro-War issues, and one and one. I don't think she is a bad person just someone that is caught up in a bad system and will not fight it. Is it greed there is not really anyway for us to tell but if she would of actually stopped taking legal bribes from Wall Street and had been fighting it for the past 4 years. We would be on her side, but she did not even mention fighting Wall Street until after Sanders started getting the little attention he was given. That you and many HRC supporters just don't get it is why you are Clinton Supporters.

[rhett o rick]

162. Ask a Sanders supporter why they support Sanders and they will give you an

earful of reasons related to issues. Ask me and I will oblige. Ask a Clinton supporter and they will say that she is tough or experienced.

People are following Sanders because they see him as representing them, THEM. Clinton represents Goldman-Sachs.

[Hortensis]

127. We understand everything.

We don't look at the world through some narrow idolatry-scope chosen to produce a pleasingly distorted image.

[AtomicKitten]

141. Clearly not; it's the message, not the messenger.

[Maedhros]

153. That's got to be the most inaccurate post I've ever read on DU.

Congrats!

[MrWendel]

2. Or...

in this case MATH!!!

[Live and Learn]

3. Math? You have no idea! Look at the small percentage of people that vote at all.

Do you think they do that because the just think those of us that do will pick the right candidate? No, they are disenfranchised. You should be ashamed of that instead of reveling in the fact that it aids your candidate.

But, these people aren't going away and those of us that do vote are beginning to sway them and will continue to do so. The revolution is growing, day by day! The establishment's days are numbered!

[MineralMan]

110. Those who do not vote are simply silent.

What do they think? Nobody knows. What do they support? Nobody knows.

It is a shame that everyone does not rush to the polls at every election, but the fact is that they do not. Far less than half of people who are eligible to vote ever do vote. That's a shame, but a reality, as well.

Those who do not vote are not necessarily disenfranchised. They are, however non-voters, and most of them by choice.

The only conclusion I can draw is that they don't care. People who care make their voices heard, even if it is only occasionally, at the polls. If they do not do that, I must assume that they are indifferent to the results, so I pay little attention to them.

I have worked on GOTV efforts since 1960, when I was still in high school. I have done it every election. I am always disappointed in the number of people who bother to go and vote. I imagine I always will be disappointed, but I keep trying.

Maybe if more of us engaged in GOTV activism, we could raise the percentage of voters. I don't know. I do wish we'd try, though.

[Qutzupalotl]

118. One way to increase turnout is vote by mail.

We've been doing that for years here in Oregon and regularly get over 80% turnout in presidential election years. It's easy, convenient, you can vote in your living room while you read up on initiatives, there are security controls and privacy controls....You should check it out. It sure beats a chaotic caucus! Plus there's a paper trail for recounts, and a tally of the popular vote. I wish all states would do this.

[MineralMan]

129. Yes, that would be a great thing everywhere.

It's a state-by-state matter, though, and will take quite some time to implement. It will also be obstructed in some states, which think they have the right to limit some voters from easy voting.

I'm hopeful, but not optimistic about this implementation, really.

Oregon is ahead of the rest of us in many ways, to be sure.

[reformist2]

49. I was going to take the role ofa vapid Hill supporter saying that she was "inevitable" due to "math"

[peacebird]

86. Because the corporatists and the 1% want status quo. Since most super delegates are on a comfy

Gravy train of money for nothing from the same group, they will give their votes to ensure status quo.

Since the same group owns the media, we see a myriad of articles about Trump & Hillary, with very little time or coverage given to Bernie. Yet still Bernie has been winning far more than Hillaryites are comfortable with. Her coronation is not going near so smooth as you want.

Guess what? We are in it to the convention! And beyond.

[MrWendel]

96. Its unanamous kids!

Math is evil, unless it's Bernie Math!

[NanceGreggs]

4. What Bernie Supporters Don't Understand ...

... is that Hillary supporters believe in the same things.

The difference between us is that we believe Hillary is the best bet for advancing/achieving the above.

Now that the primaries are underway, Democrats are speaking loudly and clearly - and they, too, believe that Hillary is the best candidate, and the one they want representing them in November.

You can continue to pretend that this primary race is about people who are for/against things like affordable education, a living wage, surviving as a species. But the truth is we're ALL for the same things, we merely differ on who is more likely to accomplish what we all want, as opposed to who wants to rant about where we should be - with no real plan as to how get there.

[Firebrand Gary]

6. .

[Live and Learn]

8. I knew I pegged you correctly.

Don't you find that a bit insincere after your last OP?

[Firebrand Gary]

15. You are unbelievable!

Nothing in this post is insincere! Here is the post, AGAIN for you! Why are you trying to stir up trouble? This is a polite post, that says NOTHING about Sanders! It's merely saying that we're supporting the same things.

What you are doing, trolling everyone's posts'-especially post that are kind, good natured and positive to our party, is hurtful. Your causing strife and its so unfortunate.



... is that Hillary supporters believe in the same things.

The difference between us is that we believe Hillary is the best bet for advancing/achieving the above.

Now that the primaries are underway, Democrats are speaking loudly and clearly - and they, too, believe that Hillary is the best candidate, and the one they want representing them in November.

You can continue to pretend that this primary race is about people who are for/against things like affordable education, a living wage, surviving as a species. But the truth is we're ALL for the same things, we merely differ on who is more likely to accomplish what we all want, as opposed to who wants to rant about where we should be - with no real plan as to how get there.

[kristopher]

16. No you aren't for the same things.

You want to maintain the status quo. Hillary is in no sense an agent of change.

[Firebrand Gary]

23. Seriously? nt

[kristopher]

25. Seriously.

[Live and Learn]

34. Quite! And we really do believe it. Roll your eyes at your own peril.

These kind of posts only serve to ensure Hillary won't get support from us.

[MineralMan]

131. I see. Well, I count on most Bernie supporters to support

the nominee, just like Hillary supporters will if Bernie is the nominee. It's a matter of what is the better choice in November.

I hope you'll recognize that in time.

[stonecutter357]

43. +1

[Live and Learn]

26. The difference is the urgency and the actual belief that the candidate means what they say.

Bernie stresses the urgency and has a record that proves his intentions.

Hillary says we have to wait and has a record of going against what she has recently changed her mind to say.

Some things can't wait. The climate and people are dying!!! Iis that really that hard for you people to understand?

I can even almost understand you being willing to expend a few people (although the thought makes me puke) but the climate??? You can't undo that or fix it later!! You are voting to kill the planet and all of us.

Please help me understand why!!!!

[NCTraveler]

56. +1 nt

[betsuni]

60. +1

[Live and Learn]

7. I guess you missed Hillary claiming she, "CAN'T DO" much of anything.

Hillary is bought and sold. That really can't be denied.

I don't believe you are naive, so I assume you have other other reasons for supporting her. Whatever they are, please don't insult my intelligence by trying to convince me that despite Hillary's record and statements, she is the path to the ideals I spoke about.


I fell for the Clinton's once and got NAFTA, Welfare Reform, homeless people in the streets, an embarrassing and immoral prison explosion, private prisons, and lewd intern stories as a result. Fool me once, shame on you....

[eridani]

9. Ask for a whole loaf and get half. Ask for half a loaf and get crumbs n/t

[kristopher]

17. +1

[Live and Learn]

21. +1000 nt

[Live and Learn]

11. +1000 And a hearty welcome to DU. nt

[quantass]

13. Oh Come On! Really?! Are we looking at the same history -- videos, voting, money, deals?

[grasswire]

18. you speak as if you will be living in post election US.

all that "we" stuff.

[ibegurpard]

28. I know right?

[Gwhittey]

73. Wait

The person you are arguing with is from another Nation?

[kath]

97. Yep. She lives in Canada. So she has great healthcare and all that other good stuff that civilized

countries have.

The classic Republican "I've got mine, so screw you" attitude.

[NanceGreggs]

124. Yes, I live in Canada.

I am an American citizen. I am fully engaged in US politics. I donate to campaigns, and I VOTE (something too many Americans don't do).

If my attitude was "I've got mine, so screw you", I wouldn't be bothered to do any of the above, would I?

The US is MY country. I was born and raised there, and all of my family members still live there - along with all of the friends I made before I moved here.

Are you saying my opinion and my vote don't count - ya know, like people in those "red states" that don't count unless they vote for Bernie?

[Hydra]

125. Thanks for pointing that out

I always wondered why her posts came out such a place of comfort.

[grasswire]

106. yes

long time resident of Canada.

[Katashi_itto]

22. Lol, and Hillary does?

[ibegurpard]

27. Except Single-player healthcare

Too hard and therefore not worth working for. How do you like having that up there in Canada Nance?

[seekthetruth]

40. Sadly

You, again, don't get it. How can you trust someone who is within the system? Someone who has moneyed interest in the wrong places ( banks, business, etc) versus the people (a people-financed campaign).

With Hillary, there won't be any change. She'll continue to work within the system instead of working to right the wrongs of so many years of neoliberal policies. In fact, she is a neoliberal herself. Tell me, what will she really accomplish? We will still have millions without insurance, and our premiums will continue to skyrocket. Do you not realize how much we spend on healthcare as compared to other countries? Sorry, but I just will not place my faith in someone who takes money from corporations, who refuses to disclose what she said behind closed doors to some of the most corrupt financial institutions, and will continue the same old policies of war in the Middle East. How can you tell me she is the best choice to actually stand up for progressive values? Besides you really need to read the Two Income Trap by Elizabeth Warren. I honestly don't believe Hillary is as trustworthy as you think.

[BlueMTexpat]

55. +1!!!

We also don't appreciate being told that we don't understand. We understand very well.

We also understand that it takes analytic planning, lots of dedicated hard work, and building coalitions that involve compromise for ANYTHING to be accomplished.

Hillary excels at all three.

[Gwhittey]

80. Then

Risk Risk Risk. So you claim to get it and are willing to Risk her actually doing something when her record shows that she will not.

[inchhigh]

83. Excels at all there?

Again, I know you want to believe that, but she can't even build a coalition WITH US. This mythical skill she has is built entirely on her history of acquiescing to our political opponents. If you want someone who can build a coalition with them, just vote for THEM.

[BlueMTexpat]

94. Perhaps she cannot build

a coalition with some of Bernie's online supporters. It's easy to overestimate your candidate's support when you outnumber HRC supporters on DU, for example, by at least 6:1.

In the real world, however, Hillary's share of the popular vote is much higher and will continue to be. Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be about?

Also in the real world, MOST Democrats (and leaners) like BOTH candidates and will support EITHER in the GE. So yes, if she wins the nomination, she will build a significant coalition that includes most who support Bernie now.

If you decide to sit it out altogether in that case, that is your loss.

[NCTraveler]

57. +1 nt

[betsuni]

59. +1

[Hortensis]

62. What NanceGreggs says. We want the same things!

[madokie]

64. I question anyone who can't see

that their candidate is the person in the pockets of the very people who are against every single one of the issues in this OP, Every single one of them I might add, again, so as you know what the heck I'm saying here. Hillary doesn't give two shits for you or me, of course unless you are a multi-millionaire. Something tells me that is something you dang sure aren't. Nothing personal but how can you in your high and mighty support a candidate who will work their ass off to deny any and everything we as the middle or lower wage earners want and deserve. How can you?

[inchhigh]

74. If you believe those things

Why don't you support a candidate who does also? I get that you're probably a good person who believes those things yourself, that's why you're a Democrat. I just don't know how you could possible believe that Hillary does.

Honestly; WalMart and Goldman Sachs? Do the things listed above even have bigger enemies than those two? (OK, Maybe the Koch's but since they originally funded the DLC wing of the party HRC comes from I don't see that as much separation).

I know that you want to believe she will fight for those things because YOU want those things. But most Americans will never believe that she stands for those things because there is just so much evidence that she doesn't.

She has zero chance of accomplishing those things because she will never be President. Obama is the only non incumbent Center Right Dem to win a majority since Carter.

This is a losing proposition our only hope is to abandon it before it is too late.

Pick a candidate we can all support. Don't complain after we've picked one that a very substantial chunk of the party won't.

[Jester Messiah]

76. I don't know how you can believe that.

Given her history and associates, your belief simply makes no sense. It does not follow.

[Cobalt Violet]

84. too bad then that she is not electable.

[Broward]

92. Hillary is the best bet for the status quo

or moving things further right.

[Armstead]

93. I would look at who Clinton is aligned with -- They do NOT want the same things

Large Corporate interests, Wall St.......No they do not want the same things.

Maybe they're okay with "social issues" like women's rights -- as long as it doesn't interfere with the Corporate Imperative. But actually allowing working class women -- or their husbands, brothers and sons -- to earn a decent living? Why do you think urban inner cities are so blighted and decimated? A lot of it has to do with both corporate disinvestment.

The environment? Why did it takle Clinton so long to come out against the TPP? Why does she support fracking -- which has the potential for environmental problems that will make Flint's water issues seem like a clear mountain stream by comparison.


When it comes to issues of wealth and power they do not want the same things.

[Hoyt]

95. Exactly.

[GreatGazoo]

5. a nice list

I try not to assume much about "Hillary supporters" except that for whatever their own reasons are, they chose Clinton over Bernie.

Hillary is running a bandwagon campaign which wants to use identity politics to push us all into grouping by race and gender to be told that our whole group is voting for Hillary so why aren't we (?) I find that to be very simplistic to the point of insulting.

The best way to counter that campaign is to continue to treat people as individuals and talk specifically about the differences between what the 2 candidates offer. It has been working well so far. Specifics and honesty can win people over, especially when they are being treated like children by the other side.

Here is mine:

The media and Hillary don't want to talk about TPP but I do and that's a reason I support Bernie Sanders.

The media and Hillary don't want to talk about what happens to Social Security but I do and that's a reason I support Bernie Sanders.

The media and Hillary don't want to schedule the Democratic debates for a time when people will actually watch them but I do and that's a reason I support Bernie Sanders.

The media and Hillary don't want to talk honestly about Bernie's plan for universal healthcare but I do and that's a reason I support Bernie Sanders.

The media and Hillary don't want to talk about what FDR-style Democratic Socialism could do for this country but I do and that's a reason I support Bernie Sanders.

[Live and Learn]

12. A great list. nt

[bvf]

38. +1.

[Kittycat]

68. +1

[yourpaljoey]

87. Correct. Hillary wants the OPPOSITE of the things Bernie supporters want!

[Maedhros]

154. Now THAT is an excellent post. Bravo! [n/t]

[YOHABLO]

14. Hillary on Bernie's proposals: 'yeah, we will get to that, but not right now' much later.

How much longer do U.S. citizens have to wait? When a generation comes along that really couldn't be bothered about the Constitution, or the principles by which this country was founded? We're about there.

[Live and Learn]

20. "I'll look into it." But only on some of the issues will she even grant that much.

I'll believe her on those when she hands over those transcripts she's 'looking into."

[Katashi_itto]

19. K&R!

[Live and Learn]

31. TY nt

[Cassiopeia]

24. I'm not voting for Bernie

I'm voting for us.

We either fight for progressive change or we race to the bottom.

[Live and Learn]

30. Yep, "Not Me, Us" nt

[Dragonfli]

29. Very well put! No one is more equal than anyone else and all people deserve what you listed

and more.

It must begin Somewhere, let it start with a political revolution that Sanders speaks of and fully admits he is but a part of, the rest being those of use that believe in a fair society where no one is worth billions while others are worth nothing in order to support the disparity.

FEEL THE BURN INDEED!

[Live and Learn]

32. +10,000 nt

[Lil Missy]

33. Not of that is inconsistent with support of Hillary Clinton.

[Live and Learn]

35. Yes it is and those that actually believe otherwise are being naive and ignorant of history. nt

[Dragonfli]

36. Willfully so I believe unless they lack any political knowledge

beyond the most recent Brock talking points and flip flops (channeling Sanders)

[Live and Learn]

37. Yep. It is so maddening. nt

[kath]

98. + a brazillion.

[madokie]

66. Are you kidding me?

[peacebird]

88. "Not of that is inconsistent with support of Hillary Clinton"? That phrase makes no sense at all

[oberliner]

41. If Clinton is elected president we won't survive as a species?

You actually believe this?

[Live and Learn]

42. So say the scientists. And yes, I believe them. You don't?

There is no time to waste. It may be too late already. Hillary is all for wasting time. Bernie is not.

[randome]

50. If you believe in science then surely you believe in math.

Since Clinton is very likely to be the next President, we should be thinking -on the side, anyways- about how to get her to move on climate change and other issues instead of throwing up our hands and giving up.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[haikugal]

104. Yeah because that worked so well with Clinton #1 and Obama.

Why not just vote for Bernie who'll work his ass of for us and get us involved? Makes more sense to me.

[oberliner]

52. Which scientist says electing Clinton president will result in the end of our species?

Can you provide a link to a scientist who says this?

[stonecutter357]

44. .

[Live and Learn]

45. Taking it you don't shre those issues? But, we already knew that. nt

[Live and Learn]

46. Have you reached that point yet? Cause, I defintaely have.

[Gwhittey]

79. Is DU full

of GOP plants? I mean in last few days I have seen Race baiting, people using "free stuff" as talking point Swiftboat like tactics. All right out of How to run a dirty primary by Karl Rove. And I should know I fell for that crap in 2000 but saw the light in 2004 on.

[grahamhgreen]

47. Wether we believe a democratic society has a right to protect our jobs from offshoring

And costly trade agreements

[Paka]

51. K&R

It's pretty straight forward.

GO BERNIE!

[72DejaVu]

53. I like threads where Bernie supporters say it's not about personalities

Then spend most of the thread talking about Hillary's personality.

Always an entertaining read.

[betsuni]

54. ...

[DCBob]

58. This election is about keeping a Democrat in the White House.

That's our number one goal.. all else pales in comparison.

[Hortensis]

61. +10,000!

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

65. Exactly.

And, as has been pointed out countless times on this website, Bernie has a much better chance of winning the general election than Hillary.

[DCBob]

67. Much too risky to put up someone like Bernie as our candidate.

The GOP attack machine will eat him alive.

[Vinca]

69. And they'll be so kind and respectful to Hillary.

Especially if she hasn't been cleared by the FBI. They'll convince voters she belongs in the big house, not the White House.

[DCBob]

71. They have been blasting Hillary for decades and she's still standing strong.

Did you watch the Benghazi hearings? That is a taste of whats to come with Hillary vs the GOP in the coming general election.

Bernie is simply not ready. Running for office in the tiny Liberal enclave of Vermont does not prepare one for running for President.

[Vinca]

72. You have no idea how hard I'm going to laugh when Hillary veers back to the right.

She's really snookered you guys.

[DCBob]

75. I dont think so...

It has become quite clear there are millions of new voters attracted to Bernie's message. She will be stupid to ignore that.. and Hillary is clearly not stupid.

[Armstead]

85. Not stupid.....But not principled either

Nor willing to break out of the rigid frame

[Armstead]

77. Did you ever watch The Candidate? That statement perfectly embodies the ending.

[DCBob]

78. No I didnt.

Please enlighten me.

[Armstead]

82. I added a video link....Watch til the end. (It's after Redford has won election.)

[ucrdem]

90. Yes. Also Sanders doesn't appear to know or care what's in the Dem platform.

Including free trade, specifically TPP which is named, gun control, and immigrant's rights.

[TransitJohn]

105. Republican policies with a Democratic label? That's

what you want? We are so fucked.

[DCBob]

108. Hillary is a liberal by all normal traditional definitions.

But I do admit she is not a socialist.

[Lorien]

112. She's a Right Wing Republican by EVERY measure:

raq
TPP
KXL
Pro arctic drilling
Pro for Profit Prisons
Pro Monsanto
Bankruptcy bill
Voting for a border fence
Saying child migrants should be sent home
Using her position as SoS to push fracking on the rest of the world
Wall Street donations
Six digit speaking fees
Taking money from weapons deals
Honduras
Comments about nuking Iran
Voted to raise credit card interest rates
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Opposing gay marriage in New York State
Brownbeck Amendments
Glass-Steagall
No living wage
No free college
No universal health care (ACA coverage gap....ACA will never provide UHC)
No medical Marijuana
Supports mandatory sentencing
Says that she's "proud of" the way Walmart does business
Libya
Yemen
Syria
Egypt
United States-Chile Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
United States-Singapore Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
Free trade - Oman agreement
Voted FOR Gitmo. --- Hillary voted against the Byrd ammendment and against a large majority of democrats to reduce Guatanamo funding by $36,000,000. She joined the republican majority against the majority of democrats in supporting Guantanamo.
Pro death penalty
Pro cluster bombing
Pro increased carcinogens in drinking water
Clinton policies lead to the largest mass incarceration of human beings in the history of the world
and the list goes on...

[DCBob]

113. Ridiculous. Based on her voting record while in the Senate she was ranked 13th most liberal.

About the same as Patrick Leahy, Barbara Mikulski and John Kerry.

http://voteview.com/SENATE_SORT110.HTM

Are all those good Democrats RW Republicans??

[Lorien]

117. THIS is her record, and why Bernie is the better candidate:

Hillary wants to attack Iran: http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clinton-if-im-president-we-will-attack-iran/5460484

Hillary pushed Fracking on the rest of the planet: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron

Hillary and childhood poverty: http://www.salon.com/2015/10/15/the_worst_thing_hillary_clinton_has_ever_done/

What Hillary calls "feminism" : https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/hillary-clinton-womens-rights-feminism/

How women workers faired at Walmart when Hillary was on it's board:

Hillary's campaign had a gender pay gap: http://freebeacon.com/politics/hillary-clintons-campaign-has-a-gender-pay-problem/

Hillary takes millions in campaign cash from her "enemies": http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/14/hillary-takes-millions-in-campaign-cash-from-enemies

Hillary on Gay marriage in 2004:

&feature=youtu.be

Hillary open to raising the retirement age and reducing SS benefits: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/10/hillary-clinton-indicates-she-is-open-to-raising-the-retirement-age.html

Bernie has a MUCH better record of accomplishments as Senator than Hillary does: https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/fact-bernie-sanders-got-more-done-in-the-senate-than-hillary-clinton/

When you ask me to vote for Hillary: https://medium.com/@Lookingforrobyn/when-you-ask-me-to-vote-for-hillary-174becdb5ccc#.2ixs3cg5o

Hillary's legacy of pushing the party to the right: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33869-hillary-clinton-s-ghosts-a-legacy-of-pushing-the-democratic-party-to-the-right

Chomsky: Democrats are now moderate Republicans:http://trofire.com/2015/09/23/noam-chomsky-dems-are-now-moderate-repugs-republicans-are-now-off-the-spectrum-of-reality/

The political compass finds Bernie to be the most centrist candidate, Hillary falls into the right wing Authoritarian spectrum:: http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

Bernie rejects big fundraising events: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2015-03-26/bernie-sanders-hates-money-in-politics-the-very-thing-he-ll-need-to-beat-clinton

Debunking the "Bernie has a Super PAC" lie: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/debunking-the-big-bernie-sanders-has-a-superpac-lie/

Elizabeth Warren on Hillary Clinton: https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/986305904741661/

A comparison of bills put forth by Bernie and Hillary: http://giphy.com/gifs/clinton-vs-sanders-bills-passed-according-to-congressgov-3o6gaQaIZcGAW7hCfu

Hillary helps a bank, which then funnels millions to the Clintons: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/

Under Sanders, incomes and jobs would soar:http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/economy/sanders-income-jobs/

Electing Bernie would usher a wave of "Bernie Democrats" into Congress: https://newrepublic.com/article/129047/bernies-army-running-congress

Bernie vows to stop disastrous TPP deal: http://ecowatch.com/2015/10/05/sanders-stop-tpp-deal/

Bernie's foreign policy positions are solid and through: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619

Hillary's foreign policy record is dismal: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html

Bernie has plenty of foreign policy knowledge: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619

Hillary's foreign policy record is a disaster: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html

Top economist, UN advisor and climate activist: "Clinton is a danger to world peace" http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/15/1485382/-Top-economist-UN-advisor-and-climate-activist-Clinton-is-a-danger-to-world-peace

The pragmatic case for Bernie Sanders: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/the-pragmatic-case-for-bernie-sanders/462720/

Who could beat Trump? Bernie by a wide margin, while Hillary could lose against him: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-destroys-donald-trump-by-13-points-6-more-than-clinton-_b_8936840.html

Bernie Sanders would beat Donald Trump 51-38 in a general-election: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/poll-against-bernie-sanders-donald-trump-would-get-schlonged-20151223#ixzz3zvCwk44J

Poll shows that Hillary could easily lose to Trump in the General election: http://www.inquisitr.com/2667052/poll-shows-hillary-clinton-could-easily-lose-to-donald-trump-in-general-election/

Hillary voted to allow more carcinogens in drinking water: http://usuncut.com/news/hillary-clinton-groundwater-pollution/

In Europe, Sanders would be Center-Right: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-01-19/in-europe-sanders-would-be-center-right

There's a reason why Hillary only gets solid wins in Red States.

[DCBob]

119. I see you are good at copy/pasting.

Bottom line Hillary is our best candidate to keep the White House. Bernie is a good man with a good message but he is simply too risky as our nominee.

[retrowire]

138. They may be good at copy/pasting

But how about your ability to absorb and retain information?

lmao, just because it's copy and pasted, and you're literally overwhelmed with undeniable facts does not mean that it's worth ignoring.

This is hilarious!

[DCBob]

139. The vast majority of those copy/pasted items are exaggerated nonsense.

Not worth the effort to respond in detail.

[retrowire]

147. Can't skim and pick all the legitimate concerns that people would have?

Because they are in there. I'll admit that I too, see some that can be considered non issue, but there are plenty of things worth the effort.

[hedda_foil]

128. So she voted with the party except when she sometimes voted with Dubya.

Never mind. Tell us one actually liberal vote she cast where:
1) The Republicans did not have the votes to ensure the vote would go the other way.
2) The Dems didn't vote.as a bloc.

In other words,when did she stick her head out to defend liberal principles?

Honestly, if there is such evidence it would be very helpful.

[DCBob]

130. I have no idea if there was a situation like that.

It doesn't matter.. she voted liberal the vast majority of the time. She is a good solid liberal Democrat.

BTW, Bernie voted with Republicans on gun control a few times.. right?

[hedda_foil]

132. What do you mean by "liberal"? Does it mean the same to you as Democrat?

Yes, it does matter. It matters very much to those of us who support Bernie. I think our definition and yours may be quite different. So this is a very genuine request.

[DCBob]

133. Well probably different since I will admit..

she is not a socialist.

[TransitJohn]

134. No, she's not.

Just because we only have a small handful of liberals in the United States government doesn't mean you get to call someone a liberal just because they are a Democrat.

[DCBob]

135. How is that thing the definitive definition of liberal?

Why is Sander near the middle? That makes zero sense.

[TransitJohn]

136. take a political science class and read some history

Christ
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

[DCBob]

137. That doesnt make it legit.

If its accurate then almost the entire Democratic party is not liberal. That's nonsense.

[TransitJohn]

144. It's demonstratively not nonsense

It's the truth. It just doesn't comport with your belief. You are experiencing cognitive dissonance. Have a good day.

[DCBob]

146. It still makes no sense.

Have a good day also.

[alan2102]

158. "If its accurate then almost the entire Democratic party is not liberal."

Bingo! The entire DP is not liberal.

[Lorien]

111. That's the weakest response to the OP imaginable.

You're hung up on labels and "winning one for the (official) team!!"

NO, OUR SURVIVAL AS A SPECIES AND THE SURVIVAL OF OTHER SPECIES MATTERS A SHIT TON MORE THAN YOUR F*CKING SUPERBOWL WIN!

Hillary won't do jack to reverse course on climate change and inequality; SHE'LL MAKE BOTH MUCH WORSE!

We've seen study after study warning us that we have 14-40 years left, tops, before we face complete environmental collapse; they kind which destroys our atmosphere and our ability to raise any type of food for ourselves. How much more evidence do you people need, or are you in denial like the repugs. IT'S GAME OVER IN *YOUR* LIFETIME if we don't take bold action immediately!

Do Hillary fans really want to know why we're pissed as Hell? Because of all of this. To you it's about "winning", to us it's about not losing absolutely everything; all of life on the precious planet, which your candidate will NEVER act to protect! NOTHING ELSE MATTERS if we have no air to breathe, get it??


http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/03/05/mercury-doesnt-lie-weve-hit-troubling-climate-change-milestone

[DCBob]

115. I think your bias towards your candidate has affected your judgement.

Bernie is by far the riskier candidate. The GOP will tear him apart. Running for office in Vermont does not prepare one for running for President.

[retrowire]

140. You're clearly not aware of how often Bernie has been under attack by the Republican machine. nt

[DCBob]

142. LOL.. like where??

I listen to RW loon radio during my commute and they love him!

[retrowire]

148. Did you know that Bernie has a political career that extends far into the past?

Did you know that he's run against Republicans?

I rest my case.

[DCBob]

149. In Vermont.

That will be nothing like what will happen in a general election against the full force of the GOP attack machine.

[retrowire]

150. When Bernie went against Susan Sweetser...

She brought along with her a whole lot of money and the support of the NATIONAL Republican Party, not JUST the state of Vermont. lol

She brought along names such as: Armey, Paxon, Forbes, Barbour, Kasich, Molinari, Pryce, etc...

They even hired a private investigator to dig up things about Bernie's personal life for use in attack ads.

So... To say Bernie hasn't dealt with the full force of the Republican machine is nonsense. Thing is, he's hard to smear. They couldn't find much more than an ex wife that had nothing but nice things to say about him. So... Honestly, they can bring it on. Bernie will be fine.

Hillary? Not so much, there's dirt from the past AND the present to talk about with her so... If you feel secure in that then... I don't know what to think. :/

[DCBob]

151. Does any Republican have a prayer winning in Vermont?

I wouldn't think attacks from a Republican would work in Vermont regardless.

You are dreaming if you think anything that Bernie experienced in Vermont will be anything like what's going to happen in an ugly intense Presidential campaign with millions and millions of GOP dollars spent to take him down.

[Live and Learn]

122. +10,000 nt

[beachbum bob]

81. Lol..America will not elect a pacifist....simple

[ucrdem]

91. They're both about the same war-vote wise except that Hillary is more honest about it.

She also knows more and is a better choice in that regard.

[Duppers]

114. Bernie is not a pure pacifist.

What do to base your statement upon?
Please show me where Bernie has said that.

[ucrdem]

89. You left off immigration and gun "rights" which are the only two policy differences they have.

The rest are basically planks of the Dem platform and therefore a matter of perception and preference as to who favors which statement more. Fine, that's what primary voting is all about. But on those two issues I prefer Clinton.

[questionseverything]

121. hc will continue the war on drugs,even medical mj

bernie is willing to look at legalizing mj which would free up money to go after heroin dealers maybe even provide treatment instead of prisons

this is a HUYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE difference in policy

we are currently bankrupting ourselves paying for imprisoning our own non violent youth

[Lizzie Poppet]

99. Seemingly, it's all about party for many.

All that seems to matter to them is getting a Democrat in the office. Even if that Democrat is center-right on a good-sized list of very important issues. Even if that Democrat is a bought-and-paid-for tool of oligarchic interests. Even if that Democrat exhibits highly dubious personal integrity.

I just have to shake my head...

[lostnfound]

100. It's also about trying to fix this picture:

[Bleacher Creature]

101. Thanks for telling me what I don't understand.

I don't know what took me so long to come around. I guess being patronized is actually a good strategy after all!

[Faux pas]

102. BRAVO!

[Optimism]

103. I want Bernie ...

... in the next debate to STRAIGHT OUT ask Hillary if she will vow as President NOT to sign the TPP if it reaches her desk. I personally feel she'd sign it regardless of how she answers, but it'd be nice to have that on the record, and before Michigan votes.

[Duppers]

116. Indeed.

Thanks.

[brooklynite]

107. Well then, it appears that most Democratic voters don't understand that either...

[ibegurpard]

109. Yes we apparently have our own problems

With low-information voters.

[Duppers]

120. Whether or not we can SURVIVE as a species!!

ALL else pales.

Bernie is the only candidate seriously willing to address this.

The rich seem to think they'll be able to breathe and eat their money.
Or they're too stupid to know this issue is *extremely urgent*.

So, bravo and thank you for your post, Live and Learn.

[Live and Learn]

123. Sadly, it is an issue being almost completely ignored even by many here. nt

[daleanime]

126. Massive K&R.....

I don't think that I've seen it put better.

[retrowire]

143. God fucking damn it.

I read every single post here, and only ucrdem at post 89. ATTEMPTED to compare Hillary to the list.

Bravo Hillary Supporters. You're letting facts like these stand against her, and all most of you can do is continue to PROVE that it's about a cult of personality. No rebuttals, no comparisons from any of you. Just deflection and snarkiness. This is the unprotected GD: P so please, let it the fuck out.

For FUCKS SAKE, IF I HAVE TO VOTE FOR HILLARY IN THE GENERAL, I would like to know whether or not she's real about ANY OF THIS SHIT.

[Maedhros]

156. That's why I have so many of them on ignore: THEY DON'T POST ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE.[n/t]

[onenote]

145. When Clintons supporters tell Sanders supporters what "they" don't understand and when

Sanders supporters tell Clinton supporters what "they" don't understand...

they both are showing themselves to be arrogant and clueless.

No one speaks for me. (I'm a Bernie supporter).

And I don't deign to speak for anyone else.

A lot of folk here on both sides should try it.

[gwheezie]

152. Is this the most important election in my life?

Really? I thought 08 and 12 were and if I remember correctly 1968 was a hella important election.
So if I got this right, this is the election that saves us but only if Bernie is president. I simply don't believe that. We already had the most important election and failed to re elect Carter.

[beachbum bob]

155. sanders will be destroyed by the rightwing media frenzy and their attacks

to the point that soccer moms would be fearful to vote for communist-socialist paficist who wouldn't serve his country.....and thats just one line of attack.

the point of this and EVERY election is to save OUR country FROM CONSERVATIVES.....take your rose colored glasses off and see it for what its is

[MFM008]

157. I cant get my Irish up for an old bad tempered guy.

the guy is 75 years old, sorry.

[Logical]

159. Kick

[NNadir]

160. As an environmentit and a scientist I certainly know what this election is about.

I really don't need a smug and supercilious lecture on what it is about.

One of the worst environmental programs I've heard as a scientist is that put forth by Senature Sanders.

It may be popular, but it represents nothing more than a bourgeois fantasy, one that I might add is failing dramatically world wide.

Simply because Senator Sanders energy policy is simply more of the same, I have chosen to support former Secretary of State Clinton.

It really is remarkable how little some people understand about the environment and what is even worse is when they assume the right to launch into arrogant pronouncements on the same.

Enjoy the coming week!

[Enthusiast]

161. K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations!

[Nonhlanhla]

163. What Bernie supporters don't understand: Hillary supporters.

[artislife]

164. I just love this OP. Love, love, love

Because that is what I feel. And number one is the planet. Thank you for listing it out.

And to the h supporters, we don't feel h is truly invested in many items on that list. She's kind of lukewarm and we feel an urgency.


I don't see a great future in 100 years if things are not addressed quickly and forcibly.

[artislife]

165. I am bookmarking this

Because I am going to take it to my caucus. I have signed up to even help...WA March 26th

[Live and Learn]

166. Thanks for the kind words. I didn't realize that Washington had caucuses.

Great that you have signed up to help. Go Bernie!!