WaPo: "Sanders is actually on the record as supporting the auto bailout. He even voted for it."

[Cheese Sandwich]

"I voted to save the auto industry," she said. "He voted against the money that ended up saving the auto industry. I think that is a pretty big difference."

What Clinton said is technically true, but it glosses over a lot of important nuance, including the fact that Sanders is actually on the record as supporting the auto bailout. He even voted for it.

Clinton clearly figures the auto bailout may prove to a big factor going into Tuesday's primary in Michigan and the one next week in Ohio, where both candidates are hoping to do well and where the auto industry is big. So it seems like she's willing to take the gamble that fact checkers may call her out for her tactic Sunday -- but that voters won't.

The drama isn't likely to go away, as Clinton and Sanders battle it out for support in union-heavy auto states in the coming days.
...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/07/the-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-debate-over-the-auto-bailout-explained/

[peacebird]

1. Hillary knew this was an artful smear, but she lacks the integrity to try to win honestly

[Cheese Sandwich]

2. This artful smear was artful

Designed just to do the damage whatever it takes.

[peacebird]

4. May karma boomerang right back on her

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. How dare WaPO use FACTS? Isn't that cheating, somehow?

After all, look how fact free Teem Hillary is, as they act like wolfpacks hunting the unsuspecting pro bernie folks.

[randome]

14. 'Artful smear' = 'winning the debate'. It's pretty fundamental stuff.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[longship]

30. Even by misrepresenting your opponent's position and Senate voting record?

Really? Really?

Love your posts, but this one is a reach. After all, the record disagrees, which in the end is all that matters. Sadly, the record will not correct Hillary's equivocations.

I will vote for her in November if she gets the nomination, but that is only because the GOP is so far more odorous than Hillary that I will do so.

Bernie is the only presidential candidate this year whose approval rating is positive. BTW, it is 60%. Hillary's is in the hole, like all of the GOP candidates.

Maybe that is why she loses against almost all of them.

Here. Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks breaks it down:

[0rganism]

7. it was a strong move against Sen. Sanders' strengths

honesty is not at issue in debates until one of the candidates opts to make it one. Sanders doesn't attack Hillary there because it's not seen as one of her strengths and he doesn't have anything to gain by it, Hillary doesn't attack Bernie on it because she'd be vulnerable to some withering counter-attacks. so honesty is pretty much off the board.

Hillary picked a prominent target (Sanders' support for the working class) she could effectively attack and forced an explanatory response from Bernie.

getting her debate opponent to spend time droning on about the differences between legislative packages on national TV, that's points on the board, and she can keep scoring with it until Sen. Sanders has a concise sound-bite-worthy rebuttal.

[randome]

8. One of the fundamentals of debating. Oh. The horror.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[jhart3333]

36. yeah, well

[peacebird]

19. Sanders doesn't bring it up because he doesn't do personal attacks. He attacks policy and record

Hillary brings it up because she has no honor, & no integrity. She will quite literally say anything to anyone if she thinks it will get her elected. Zero credibility. #WhichHillary will people get if she's president? My bet: one who works hard to benefit those that gave big to her superpacs, and immediately pivots hard right.

[0rganism]

31. which is why HRC is a stronger debater

Sen. Sanders is the better campaigner, in my estimation, but he doesn't go for the jugular in debates with HRC. she, otoh, has no hang-ups about going in whatever direction is required to win the debate and grow her support thereby.

i wouldn't bet much on policy triumphs for any Democratic president's 1st term with the current congress. either one of the candidates, should s/he be the nominee, will face unified opposition in Rep. Ryan's house, regardless of the actual legislative content. it will take a strong showing in statewide races in 2018 and 2020 to undo the 2010 gerrymandering and have a decent chance at winning back the house.

[peacebird]

32. "Better debater" in this instance means liar without any integrity using an artful smear

I am not sure that is a good thing....

[0rganism]

33. your words not mine -- i said "stronger" not "better"

"a good thing" in a presidential debate is, shall we say, contextual

[Buzz Clik]

3. WaPo (Amber Phillips, actually) is wrong:

The $82 billion that helped finance the bankruptcy of General Motors, Chrysler, their finance subsidiaries -- GMAC and Chrysler Financial -- and a handful of large suppliers were part of a much larger Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) that covered more than $700 billion that went to bailout the largest banks, and AIG, the insurance giant that has issued credit default swaps that came due when the banks could not cover their losses on mortgage-backed securities.

In short, a Senator or congressman could not vote to rescue GM and Chrysler without voting to provide the money to keep the nation's largest investment banks from failing.

Sen. Clinton voted yes. Sen. Sanders voted no.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2016/03/06/explaining-hillary-clintons-bernie-sanders-votes-auto-bailout/81419564/

Thanks for playing, Amber.

[thesquanderer]

25. This is also being discussed at...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511432950

where the responses include your point, and counters to it.

[Buzz Clik]

43. Bottom line:

Sanders voted for a failed bill. Given the opportunity to vote yes for a bill that would pass, he voted no.

[thesquanderer]

44. Bottom line:

The bill passed. And if Sanders had gotten his way and prevented it, he would have had the opportunity to make it better. Win-win for the auto industry, as it would have been bailed out either way.

(ETA - for example Sanders tried to get an amendment to the bill passed that would have partially funded the Wall Street bailout by a temporary surtax on incomes over a million dollars.)

[itsrobert]

42. Plus +1000 Hillary voted for it, Sanders voted NO!

TRUTH!

[Wilms]

5. IOW, Hillary lied...again.

[Buzz Clik]

9. No. She told the truth. The WaPo opinion piece is wrong. See post #3

[Wilms]

28. I saw that. And the reply to it that linked to another thread about it.

I'm not buying it. Now, to be fair, not everything terrible said about HRC turns out to be true...but it's a lot of work keeping track of her utterances.

[Buzz Clik]

29. Wow. A yes or no vote in the Senate is a matter of public record. Clinton was correct on Sunday...

... as was Sanders when acknowledged his vote.

Sanders waffling around today trying to find a soft place to fall on this issue is disingenuous at best.

[Wilms]

41. OK. But you need to call FactCheck.org.

Because they disagree with you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511438865

[Botany]

6. Team Clinton is pretty slimy

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”
― Mark Twain

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511424993

[randome]

11. You mean she has excellent debating skills, don't you?

It was an easy enough point to refute if Sanders hadn't been flummoxed by it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[Goblinmonger]

35. Lying and misrepresenting someone's position is not an excellent debate skill.

I've competed and coached at the college level. And taught argumentation and debate at the college level. It's just not.

[Buzz Clik]

12. WaPo opinion piece is wrong. See post #3

[kstewart33]

10. If he voted for it, why didn't Bernie say so in the debate? nt

[Buzz Clik]

13. He didn't vote for it.

[kstewart33]

24. My point exactly. nt

[Buzz Clik]

15. Cheese Sandwich -- are you going to comment about the Amber Phillips article being WRONG?

[Jitter65]

16. Except he voted against what was actually passed and had the funds to accomplish the bailout.

Outcomes is what is important.

[vintx]

17. K&R for the TRUTH

Hillary lies so much and her supporters so eagerly repeat them.

Shameless and disgusting

[Vattel]

18. her superpac did the same sort of thing in Nevada. they put out blatant lies

in TV ads three days before the Nevada caucus. To quote the ad: “Bernie Sanders on Immigrants: Silly, Tribal, and Economically Illiterate” Newsweek, July 30, 2015

[Cheese Sandwich]

22. Holy garbage that was ugly

Spooky music and everything.

[Major Hogwash]

20. Not only did Bernie vote for the auto bailout, he bought an auto!!!

But, when asked what kind of car he drove, he could only remember it was a small Chevy.



Ya gotta love a guy that drives a car who doesn't brag about the size of the engine!!!

[Nyan]

37. He might be undercompensating?

I'm kidding
I really loved that, too. Bernie don't care what kind of car he drives. That is so cool!

[DrDan]

21. he just did not want to pay for it?

[BainsBane]

23. He didn't vote for it to become law

That's the point.

[Vattel]

26. I don't understand. He wanted it to become law when he voted for it, right?

[AzDar]

34. She'll do or say anything to get elected... Disgusting.

[madfloridian]

38. Kick.

Why do these truth posts keep dropping.

[Enthusiast]

39. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

[ibegurpard]

40. So Clinton lied

Again.