My worry about Hillary has never been her competence

[MidwestTech]

I know she's competent.
Day 1 20+ years ago that was never an issue I had with the rather talented lawyer Rodham-Clinton.
It's not her policies - whether I agree 100% or not, I know she'd be MORE for the average person than anything the GoP puts up.
It's not the manufactured scandals - begazi.. really?
It's not her Husband
In fact the main reason I have never wanted Hilary in the big chair is this:

N O T H I N G will get done

Seriously, I don't think people understand the level of psychotic hatred H A T R E D the Reich wing holds for her.

Bill Clinton was hated for being a better Republican and negotiator than anyone on the GOP's side for a decade or more.
If you think things under President Obama area bad... that's every day racism!
that is N O T H I N G compared to the H A T E that they have been frothing up since the primaries of Billary back in 91!

This has always been my case against a president Hillary.
She's competent as all hell, but the other side will make what they are doing to Barack Obama look like a hippy love fest!!!

I personally wanted Warren.
I'm pleased with Bernie.

I WILL VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE AS I HAVE ALWAYS DONE

Im just afraid that more republicans will come out if only to vote AGAINST her than against Bernie.

[LonePirate]

1. Repubs in Congress are not going to work with Clinton or Sanders. Neither will get anything done.

[Cleita]

26. Which is why voting down ticket is also important. Time to change the face of Congress. eom

[LonePirate]

29. Absolutely! Our nominee will need a Dem Congress if we want things to get done.

[Vinca]

2. I view her as a bait and switch politician.

She'll say whatever she needs to say to get elected, but after she's sworn in amnesia will take over and she'll swear she never promised anyone anything. Hello trade agreements, goodbye jobs.

[6chars]

6. so you admit she can get things done

[Dragonfli]

15. She will help Republicans and the Corporations that hire them both, nothing for us will get done

Just like with Obama, teaming up with the GOP and pretty much ONLY the GOP to move the TPP forward.
Maybe some Social Security Cuts (like Bill and Welfare) and tax breaks for Offshoring or hiring H1B workers (that the Americans being replaced will have to train.)

I can't think of anything else unless more bank deregulation, she does owe banks big time.

[Svafa]

27. Just the things that no Democrat should want to see get done.

Free trade details, hawkish foreign policy, etc.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. which things do you think she's going to get done, specifically?

I acknowledge that she might be able to get flag burning or internet censorship legislation passed. She might be able to get the encryption on our iphones broken. She might stop the momentum towards pot legalization while allowing big pharma to try to come up with highly patentable, less-safe derivatives that don't get people high, etc.

[MisterP]

3. and she can't get Dems excited and repels independents

her campaigning relies on stealing things from Sanders and then turning around and trying to bait the GOP rightwards

[BernieforPres2016]

4. So 1 step to the left of Republicans makes her OK on policy issues?

From what you say here, the only thing she has to be for you to approve of her on policy issues is to be slightly less conservative with the GOP:

"It's not her policies - whether I agree 100% or not, I know she'd be MORE for the average person than anything the GoP puts up."

The Republicans have done nothing but to move to the right. I think accepting anything to the left of the Republicans is a pretty low standard to accept. And frankly, if you look closely at what she does versus what she says during campaigns, she is not really to the left of the GOP on a lot of economic issues or on foreign policy.

[MidwestTech]

9. I'm trying very hard to be neutral in my analysis

This is how I have felt about her for 20 years.
I've noticed how dangerous it can be for one's account here to be too much one side or another.
Honestly she's not even ON the list of people I WANT to vote for.
but I won't throw the party under the bus.
I won't let the GoP take over w/o a fight.

I think the time for a Clinton presidency is past.
Bill wasn't ever progressive enough, but compared to bush I, or Ronny ray-gun he LOOKED liberal enough.
He wasn't.

Same thing, compared to Drumpf, she LOOKS progressive. She LOOKS liberal... but honestly she's not.

I WANT BERNIE, but I won't burn the party down if MY person isn't the nominee.

I'll support the nominee... We ALL need to come back together as a party and agree, that OUR PERSON, no matter who it is is still better than the GoP.

[BernieforPres2016]

10. I have never been good about joining teams

and staying with them no matter what because it's OUR TEAM (or person). I'm not going to vote for the lesser of two evils any more.

[MidwestTech]

11. But is that what's best for the country?

This kind of polarizing is dangerous and what allows the gop to keep beating us.
for 30+ years their mindless lockstep tactics HAVE WORKED!
The primaries are the time for diversity and raucous arguing and infighting. And it's still primary (or as Obama puts it, Silly ) season! So this is still the time for in fighting...

but when the dust settles in a few months, we NEED to come back together, even if we DO NOT AT ALL like our party person.

Do I want Bernie? HELL YES!
Would I prefer Elizabeth Warren to be our first Female president? YES!

Will I vote for Hillary even if I have to hold my nose? yes.

[marions ghost]

12. Some people feel that what's best for the country

is not compromising your principles.

Not any more...

We don't necessarily need to "come together" and expect nothing we care about to be addressed. And watch the country descend further into an even lower pit.

[MidwestTech]

14. Fair enough

I wouldn't mind seeing a change in how states assign house reps so that it more resembles parliament.
That is you vote the party and seats are parsed out based on percentages.
That would allow more radical idea / parties to form.
In the not-so-long run it would mean MORE diversity of thought in the house and, in general, a more progressive government.
I'm just worried... right now everything is on the precipice of complete utter and total failure and breakdown.
Our government, the world economy, the FUCKING PLANET (I'm not even going into global warming) resources.. everything.. it's all on the brink.

can we afford to be self destructive?

Hillary may not be great but at least we can deal with her. WORK with her... do you thin anyone on the GoP's side will be as "gracious"?

[Katashi_itto]

17. Do you honestly think she will implement anything that will save the planet?

[MidwestTech]

35. She is FAR more likely to than anything the GoP will put up

Will it be as radical as WE want it to be?

oh god no!

But it'll likely be real and meaningful and useful.

I HATE this expression as Obama used it to beat us liberals over the head with it during the healthcare Debate but...

"We cannot let the imperfect be the enemy of the good"

[Katashi_itto]

38. "Far More Likely" So 5% more 2% more? She has never demonstrated any sort of visionary leadership.

[marions ghost]

30. I would argue that we already ARE on a self-destructive course

--especially if you are concerned about climate change, but also the social and economic realms. I'm worried too. I just can't operate out of fear of change though. We need a radical change of course and Hillary will not do that--it is my belief that an administration that does not take bold action will drive the Titanic a LOT closer to the iceberg. "Hillary may not be great" is not good enough for me.

Bernie has the guts to try to steer a different course, and I think it's time.

Ideally yes--we need proportional government that allows for more parties to have a voice.

I am not worried about tRump being president. Whoever the Dems run will win IMO, but with Bernie I think it's more a sure thing because people who want change will come out of the woodwork (and crossover from R also).
With Hillary--there is likely to be a lot of attrition.

Thx for a nice reply.

[MidwestTech]

34. Sometimes I weep for our party's loss of civilized discourse

We're all in the same boat.. Earth.
We all want the same things - a stable great, safe country to live in ... that's what the republicans want too (notice I didn't say Gop)

We ALL essentially want the same things... stability and the ability to live our lives more or less how we'd like to, within the guidelines of civilization.

My state... >I< have voted. I cant do no more than that in the long run, except maybe work to bring peace to my party. To help direct our energies where it will do the most good.

We're all friends here even if some of us have forgotten that.

[marions ghost]

36. Civilized discourse

is scarce everywhere you look. It's what happens when there is so much fear and uncertainty. In this country we are pitted against each other in many ways. Which benefits those at the top, of course.

I am so tired of having to fight for what should be common sense benefits of joining together as a society--ie. a civilized country--where the government respects and works for the people, not for the obscenely tax-dodging wealthy and their corporations.

Yes we all want to live well. But now we have to fight each other in order to do that. It doesn't have to be that way. This is a struggle within, for the soul of the country, for real democracy.

[BernieforPres2016]

37. If I weep for anything it is that we can't have an honest discussion of the issues

I haven't been here long and started out trying to discuss issues with Bernie supporters and some of the Hillary supporters. Unfortunately, all I got from Hillary supporters was no response, trolling, smears, ridicule, etc. And virtually every thread they start is about the horse race, loyalty oaths, here's the latest poll, etc. After 3 or 4 days of it I just started putting every one of them I see on Ignore. It is disappointing to me because I am happy to discuss issues.

[Katashi_itto]

16. Propping up a system that doesn't represent us in the slightest is not helping the 99%

[BernieforPres2016]

19. While I am not going to vote Republican

It's probably better for the inevitable collapse that's coming without significant change to come on the other guy's watch. And if Hillary wins the Presidency, there's no chance of taking back the Democratic Party until at least 2024.

We're near a breaking point. The 99% can't be milked for much longer. I frankly didn't think it would last through 2 terms of Obama, and it is not yet assured that it will.

[Katashi_itto]

20. Agree. They have squeezed the blood out of the turnip to long. Hillary will just enable more

supply side economics for the enrichment of herself and her masters. We are edging past the breaking point.

Even the GOP voters are displaying this attitude with Trump. People are done with being conned.

[BernieforPres2016]

23. If you look at the long term income distribution charts

We are about where we were in the late 1920's before the Great Depression. You can't sustain an economy without a broad middle class.

[MidwestTech]

21. Fair enough. Do you think Trump will survive past one term?

just curious.
My feeling about trump is, he stands for nothing... which means he probably can be dealt with.
Who knows, if Bernie Looses (and it's amazing how many votes he takes from trump) and Drumpf wins, maybe he;'ll become a progressive in office.

[BernieforPres2016]

22. No I don't think he would win a second term

I agree that Trump doesn't stand for much. He is just a demagogue egomaniac who plays to the anger, stupidity, and fear of his followers. Though the risks are too high to know what could happen with Trump, I think he would most likely be undisciplined, lazy and incompetent as President. He is wildly overrated as a businessman and will find that we have a Constitution, a Congress and a Judiciary and he can't just give orders and threaten to fire people as he does in business. I think Hillary would probably get more done, and I don't mean in a good way.

[hedda_foil]

24. I'm afraid you have a much more charitable opinion of Trump than I do.

You seem to think he can be reined in by the congress and the courts. I don't think he gives a good goddam about the law or the Constitution. If he wants to do something and is told he can't, he goes ahead and just does it, while insulting and belittling the people or institutions that stand in his way. He's a narcissistic bully and with the power of the presidency in his hands, he's going to play it for all he's worth. Honestly, I doubt he'd allow impeachment to remove him.

[BernieforPres2016]

25. I don't think anybody could have a less charitable opinion of Trump than I do

I hate his guts and have for the 25+ years that I've known about him. But I don't think he can scream and call names and override Congress and the courts.

[hedda_foil]

31. I hope you're right, but congress is malleable.

As a republican president with a Repub house and Senate, he can get any enabling laws he wants passed ... just as Hitler did. And if McConnell holds fast on the SCOTUS appointment, he would have a wholly compliant court. If not, he can get the Congress to impeach justices until they go along with him.

[Katashi_itto]

39. He wouldnt surivie more than one term. But he might bring down both corporate parties at least.

[Vote2016]

5. She's a fine driver, but will she drive in the right direction?

[PatrickforO]

7. My own take?

Clinton is dishonest and will not represent the positions I care about. At all. Instead she will implement policies that are pro-corporate, pro-MIC, pro-Wall Street. I don't think she cares at all about people like me and my family.

I also believe she will 'pivot' right back to Third Way corporatist positions the minute she has the nomination sewed up. She's only campaigning as far left as she is to placate the base.

I do not believe she can win as the 'establishment candidate' against Donald Trump.

I think her candidacy and the destructive right wing talking points and race politics I've seen her surrogates use, and her outright lies in debates are destroying the party. To me, if Clinton gets the nomination it will be a Pyrrhic victory - the Democratic party will be too damaged to recover.

[marions ghost]

13. Agree

A Clinton nomination (and /or presidency) will spell the end of the Democratic party as we have known it. And that could be a good thing. Oh it'll crash along, but not in a healthy condition.

[Arugula Latte]

8. Oh, she's verrry competent -- at shilling for Wall St. and corporate interests.

[TCJ70]

18. She also hasn't addressed this...

...at any point in the campaign. Bernie is at least upfront about the issues he'll face with his agenda and has a vested interest in keeping people engaged and voting.

Hillary paints a rosy picture on a turd canvas.

[tularetom]

28. Give us a specific example of something that demonstrates her competence

Because I'm having trouble thinking of any.

Being first lady, senator and secretary of state are not accomplishments.

Giving a speech is not an accomplishment.

Serving on a board is not an accomplishment.

Her senatorial career was undistinguished.

Her tenure as Secretary of State was marked by diplomatic failures in Libya, Honduras and Syria.

I'll believe she is competent when I see her actually accomplish something.

[MidwestTech]

32. Nope not touching that hot iron

Sorry.
I'm keeping as close to Switzerland as possible because that's were I'm voting in the General... for the Nominee.
I voted - in the most literal fashion, and Im a delegate! - for Bernie.

But I think it's time for us in the states that HAVE voted to start to have a "come to jesus" moment.

IF we don't we may loose the Congress where the ACTUAL power is, for the foreseeable future.

[Fast Walker 52]

33. it's going to be a nughtmare... constant selling out and compromise