Anyone care to weigh in about which Hillary will show up for tonight's debate?

[Avalux]

I'd love to be inside her campaign today as they try to figure out what the hell happened in Michigan.

I think she may be super nice. Attacking Bernie didn't work so well in the Flint debate.

[onecaliberal]

1. If we thought she was angry at the last debate.... We haven't seen anything.

[PoliticAverse]

2. I'm excited to hear about the next evolution. n/t

[TheBlackAdder]

88. Biologists were wrong: They say populations evolve, not individuals. Flushes that scientific theory!

[Lizzie Poppet]

3. Focus groups put on the spot!

No pressure...

[merrily]

4. $5 says Anonymous.

[Mufaddal]

64. Can you imagine her walking out with a Guy Fawkes mask on?

[merrily]

66. Works for me. I saw V for Vendetta.

[Mufaddal]

68. Her opening statement

"We are Anonymous. We do not forgive. We do not forget. We are legion."

[merrily]

69. I just noticed your avatar. Do you happen to know how Dearborn went?

[Mufaddal]

70. Yeah, saw a figure last night

Something like at least 65% of the Arab (or maybe it was Muslim, I can't remember how it was framed) vote went to Bernie.

[merrily]

71. Amazing! I think in Dearborn, there is not much daylight between

"Arab" and "Muslim.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn,_Michigan#Arab_Americans

I don't know a lot, but it had been my impression that it skewed Republican, at least before 911. I did not follow what happened in Dearborn after that, but I know some activists were fighting back against profiling, etc.

[Mufaddal]

72. There is a significant Chaldean population

But other than that, yeah, most of the Arab population is Muslim.

[merrily]

73. Isn't that in modern day Iraq?

[Mufaddal]

74. Not any more, sadly

The Chaldeans will be totally gone from Iraq very soon; they have mostly left or fled. Still a decent Arab Christian population in Lebanon. Used to be a good presence in Syria.

[merrily]

75. I meant wasn't the ancient land of Chaldea located somewhere in the area we now call Iraq?

I am trying to find out what the difference is between a Chaldean and an Arab.

[merrily]

77. Ok. I looked it up. They are or were at some point considered Semites, which would

make them Arabs, unless they are Jews.

My father's brother married a woman whose father was an Assyrian from Iraq. He was Arab, but I don't think he was Muslim.

[Matt_in_STL]

5. I would guess she will try to bait him

We saw all the memes about how he asked her not to interrupt and about the finger wagging. My guess is she will be as rude as possible in order to get him to ask her to stop or make a gesture they can stretch as sexist so they can run with it tomorrow.

[kath]

76. The moderators really should enforce the time limits. Give a warning or two, then cut her mike if

she still keeps blathering on.
Why should the rules not apply to her?

[RufusTFirefly]

86. Although the finger-wagging is a non-issue...

... it might help to have Bernie stage left. He tends to wave around his right hand. And if you go back and watch the Flint debate, you'll find he does it when he's being friendly and positive, too.

Despite what some folks may want you to believe, it's not designed to threaten or intimidate. It's just his thing. He does it when he's being passionate, which, as Bernie fans will attest, is most of the time. That's what's so refreshing about Bernie. He doesn't coldly calculate. He actually cares.

[dana_b]

6. there's another one??

How many more are there??

[Avalux]

19. The possibilities are endless as she's in unknown territory.

Hillary Inc. DID NOT expect to be fighting off Sanders at this point. They never expected to lose Michigan.

[Hortensis]

34. No, they didn't. But he's still falling farther behind

with every state. Actually, I'm not sure if he may have held considering just MI alone and only fell with the addition of MS, or slipped a bit with MI too. Whatever, he is farther behind than he was 2 days ago, but with new excitement -- perhaps.

I personally can't imagine it would be possible for Hillary to be complacent after what happened in 2008 (could you guys be in her place?), and this is probably seen as an unpleasant but not unusual bump in a road that always has them. They'll be consulting their augers for signs that it might signal possible upswings in other states for Bernie, and which ones, of course.

Remember, though, on average he'd have to take majorities in EVERY state here on out to win.

[restorefreedom]

38. about 53% someone said in another thread on average

that assumes that the supers will support the pledge delegate winner. given what happened in Mi and that the calendar after the 15th is very favorable to bernie, this is most definitely possible. not a given, and not a cakewalk, it will be a hard slog. but it is doable, especially if he keeps getting more momentum for even bigger wins.

[Hortensis]

58. NOT considering supers, Bernie needs to get 60%+

of the delegates on average for the remaining states. That's just basic math. He basically would have to win every state by double digits from here on out. (MI's 62-58 doesn't cut it.) That's average, of course.

Also of course, at this point almost all superdelegates are expected to go to Hillary. If, however, he did surge magnificently and arrived stronger than Hillary at the convention (huge "if," but more likely than her being taken out by a falling satellite), then superdelegates in states that went for him strong would likely switch to him to align with their constituents.

We'll see. This all may seem stomach-churning, but we actually have two good candidates who agree far more than they disagree and who, in spite of all the campaign posturing, would be attempting to accomplish much of the same things. Not like the dilemma facing all those poor Republicans who aren't batshit-crazy.

[restorefreedom]

79. well, agree on the batshit crazy stuff

as to this side of town, we will have to see how things fall out. with bernie outperforming the polls by about 20+ percent yesterday, he has a lot of potential to get some big wins. last night, it only resulted in a 2 point win, but with the wind at his back, good states coming, and lots of money, who knows? and supers are smart enough to know not to take this from bernie if he gets the pledged delegates


i actuallly am starting to get interested in the dumpster fire over in gop land..they really have no choice but to go with trump or cruz. the people clearly want one of them (or both if they run together), and all establishment efforts to run them out are failing badly.

THATS a story worth watching

[Hortensis]

83. The reviews don't say whether it's a black comedy

or a horror movie, would give away the ending I guess, but it has certainly become absorbing. Are Ben Carson, Rick Perry and the others really dead or just hiding from the sunlight in an abandoned strip mall?

[restorefreedom]

90. snort! i am thinking something like this.....

[Hortensis]

92. And, of course, their leader.

Can anyone doubt that if this man turned up on the GOP ballot this year a bunch of people would vote for him? The real thing versus the wannabes.

[restorefreedom]

93. my eyes! yes, i agree. dead ray-gun would be the anti trump

if they could figure out a way to do it....and to be fair to the departed, he would beat the crap out of mittens

[Hortensis]

94. He would destroy them ALL. His team would have to

keep him from actually eating them in public, though. It'd no doubt delight many, but they might lose a critical portion of the indies and it might well split the religious vote.

The weird thing here is that I absolutely believe it. Who could portray a stronger, more emphatic leader than a zombie Reagan?

See you round. I'll bring more popcorn.

[restorefreedom]

95. sad state of affairs on the other side of town. yes, more popcorn please! nt

[ladjf]

82. I don't agree that we have two good candidates. nt

[dana_b]

39. Ah! I see

I thought that there was a definite amount but I guess this actually works in Bernie's favor as he is getting better. He still makes a gaff here or there but nothing intentionally inflammatory.

As long as he doesn't "pick on her" - poor delicate thing that she is.

[Red Oak]

47. At least two, maybe three

Sanders (D) running against:

Clinton (D)

Clinton (R)

Clinton (I)

Clinton (G)oldman Sachs

Clinton (N)AFTA

Clinton (C)hina WTO

ad nauseum

[Scootaloo]

81. It's hilarious.

At first the DNC was like "mmmnaaaah we don't actually need that many debates" - Then Clinton's numbers drop, and now they can't hold enough debates fast enough.

[oldandhappy]

7. Start off nice and then fiercely smearing.

Part of her cannot help it!

[Mufaddal]

8. I think we will see a new evolution into this Hillary

[Avalux]

14. Bernie Clinton?

[Mufaddal]

52. It's going to take some makeup

and learning new hand gestures, but I think this is what we're looking at.

[Red Oak]

49. Mufaddal for the WIN!

[stillwaiting]

9. I am so over wondering which Hillary is going to be on display.

I so wish an overwhelming majority of Democrats shared my feelings on this.

I truly can't understand why they don't.

[hopeforchange2008]

50. What prevents her supporters from seeing that the only thing that she supports consistently...

is misrepresenting her opponent's record? She did it in 2008 with Obama and now is doing it with Sanders.

[6chars]

10. We know which Bernie will show up

one note.

[Avalux]

11. Yes we do! The same, consistent, genuine Bernie we can trust. n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

23. That is the thing about being truthful.

You don't need to try and remember all your lies.

[Myrina]

48. ^^ This. All day, every day. ^^

[dragonfly301]

53. +1 eom

[artyteacher]

32. like boring.

Stuck in a rut...

[dana_b]

40. you say boring...

I say "consistent" . Which is the way that I like my candidates.

I will say that Hillary is not boring!! She keeps us on our toes because we don't know which way she'll be pointing on any given day.

[nichomachus]

63. Yes, there is that one note

What's right for the people

Hillary has to go through her bank deposits to see who she's supporting today. Who gave the most?

[djean111]

12. She will have ALWAYS been against the TPP - and Bernie will have been FOR it.

Kind of a toss-up - angry Hillary or smiling Hillary.

[Jarqui]

13. "If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie again" nt

[hobbit709]

15. The lying one. No Wait! That's the one that always shows up.

[RKP5637]

16. Like which accent! lol!!! n/t

[freebrew]

17. She better try something different...

the hateful lying Thatcher wannabe doesn't seem to cut it with the voters.

Same thing happened in 2008. People don't like her when she's angry(and lying).

She doesn't seem to realize it. She should dump Brock.

[Jefferson23]

18. I don't know..I am not sure she knows either. lol and I kind of like that.

I suspect she will use her Obama as airbag...bad Bernie..blah blah blah

After all, who the fuck would want a course correction from this beauty?

Democrats and Republicans Are Quietly Planning a Corporate Giveaway — to the Tune of $400 Billion
in full: http://billmoyers.com/story/democrats-and-republicans-are-quietly-planning-a-corporate-giveaway-to-the-tune-of-400-billion/

[Red Oak]

20. I've said three candidates are running

Sanders (D)

Clinton (R)

Clinton (D)


I forgot about

Clinton (I)

Maybe Clinton (I) shows up after a re-programming of the firmware, yet again.

Yes, I took millions from Wall Street. Yes, I told them they were not to blame for their own financial crimes. But, trust me, I feel the middle class' pain and I know how to fix it. I have a plan, many plans, many contradictory plans. Pick one - vote me,vote Hillary!

[Buzz Clik]

24. You also forgot about the multiple Sanders --

Opposing/supporting auto bailout as it fit his political expediency
Totally unclear on gun control, flipping sides of the issue based on the audience
And, by far the worst, his totally contradictory approach to military action in the Middle East.

So, we have six candidates running.

[Red Oak]

27. Keep up the "he voted against the auto bailout"

That really worked well for you.

In MICHIGAN!!!

[Buzz Clik]

30. Keep laughing. What's the delegate total?

How did he fare last night? Gained a lot of ground did he?

Yeah, Bernie's flip-flopping and weak attempt to rewrite history gained him very little.

[Red Oak]

43. Yep - those delegates to date are all that matter

Please keep repeating that as you win Florida and then come back and tell me all about Ohio, Missouri, California....

The only delegate count that matters is the FINAL one.

Well - maybe Clinton can say, but, but, but I was winning on March 8th!

[PufPuf23]

59. Real weak projection there Buzz Clik nt

[Buzz Clik]

60. Projection?

[dana_b]

42. lol... i like this

It depends which state she is in.

[Buzz Clik]

21. The HRC campaign knew this was coming. They were not surprised.

They were in full media blitz with ads in Michigan, and they had been talking about Michigan being very close.

As always, HRC will be presidential, confident, and forceful on a wide array of issues.

On the other side, Sanders will continue in attack mode and will pursue his favorite theme.

It will be predictable and boring.

[artyteacher]

35. yeah.

They must have better pollsters than what we see biblically.

[Red Oak]

36. That's a good one!

What else does Clinton "know"!

[cherokeeprogressive]

51. That's a huge change from what you said two days before votes were cast...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1429315

[Docreed2003]

87. They saw MI coming???

Maybe so but her supporters sure as hell didn't! Many were on DU puffing up and pronouncing the race over once she trounced Sen Sanders in MI. No one...at least no one with a political platform, came out and predicted a win for Sen Sanders in MI.

[Motown_Johnny]

22. Hillary is not capable of being "super nice" tonight.

Once Bernie points out that her claim about the auto bail out was not truthful she will get defensive and spin out of control.


A defensive Hillary is a lashing out Hillary. I expect her to lash out repeatedly.

[Cheese Sandwich]

25. She will be very nice in the 1st half then issue a series of back stabbing sneak attacks in the 2nd

Lies and lows blows. The stakes are high so she is going to do whatever it takes to bury Sanders tonight.

She may attack Bernie on some old dirt from the 1960s and 1970s when Bernie was in his hippy phase. She may bring up some of those old creepy essays, or his arguably sympathetic remarks toward an official state enemy like Cuba.

[yourpaljoey]

31. Sandwich, you are good - I supsect you have the jist of it

[Peace Patriot]

91. I hope he attacks her outright on her disastrous policies in Libya,

Syria and Honduras, on top of her "poor judgement" on Iraq (a hundred thousand dead bodies later), because I, too, think she's going to try to paint him as an anti-war pansy (CO status during Vietnam), a communist sympathizer (policies on Nicaragua and Cuba) and unfit to be commander-in-chief.

It's one important issue that Brock hasn't implemented a character-assassination game plan on yet, with Hillary talking points coordinated with (in this case, military, diplomatic) endorsements, a stream of headlines provided by WaPo and others, a chorus of bloggers repeating everything endlessly, questions planted for reporters and whatever dirty tricks he has up his sleeve. (That was pretty nifty coordination on the civil rights photo and John Lewis.) In this case, we're probably also going to see articles by foreign policy or military "experts" in Foreign Policy mag, the Atlantic, the Christian Sci Monitor, the NYT, et al, and WaPo, of course (dozens of them!), coordinated with the other parts of the attack.

I was thinking through the issues that Brock has taken on, trying to twist Sanders' strengths into liabilities and to cover Clintons' weaknesses. And this is one he could try some good 'ol fashioned McCarthyism on.

Sanders has some zingers he could use. For instance: Will Henry Kissinger be endorsing Sec Clinton? That could lose her an entire generation--60 to 70 year olds--my generation, for whom the name Kissinger calls up millions slaughtered. I don't think many of my peers know that he is advising Clinton.

Or, what role did Robert Kagan, of the Project for a New American Century, play in your decisions as Sec of State to further destabilize the Middle East, and what role will he play in your administration? Kagan is the founding neo-con, the theorist behind Cheney-Rumsfeld's global empire, and a Clinton adviser.

And he has great potential answers.

On Nicaragua: So, am I to understand that Sec Clinton supported President Reagan's Iran-Contra death squads against an elected government? Is this not like what is happening now in Honduras, with peaceful environmentalists and leftists being assassinated, many of them women. You supported the oligarchy that is ruling Honduras again, after their rightwing military coup. Have you called them to task on this terrible events?

On Cuba: So you don't support President Obama's opening to Cuba? What peace initiative by President Obama do you support?

He won't likely be so confrontational. It's not his style. He tends to say what he would do, rather than dwelling on what others have done that he didn't support. And he certainly knows what he's doing better than us Monday-morning- quarterbacks. But We should be aware of the issues that may come up, and be on high alert for dirty trick items.

There's the Russian 'honeymoon'--actually a sister city trip for Burlington. It means nothing at all, as to Sanders' politics. He traveled there in 1987, well after peristroika (liberalization) began. See this excellent Bloomberg News article:

How Bernie Sanders Spent His Soviet 'Honeymoon'
2/11/16
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-11/how-bernie-sanders-spent-his-soviet-honeymoon

I myself visited Russia in 1972, among one of the first U.S. groups in, after Nixon's visit to Russia. My trip was immensely illuminating and educational, and though I appreciated the good will of the many Russians I met, I left with no temptation whatever to live under their system. Visiting Soviet Russia did not make you a "communist"; rather the opposite.

What else is there? The man's life is so clean. It must be tempting to Brock to just make things up, whole cloth, for the temporary value of the headline or blog swarm. Actually, he's done that already--that Bernie Sanders is a racist and a sexist. Gawd.

--------------------

Update: I wrote the above before the Miami debate (but failed to post it). I was right about McCarthyite red-baiting being next. I'll bet on "commander in chief" vs. CO status during Vietnam is next after that.

[yourpaljoey]

26. He has had just about enough of her bullshit: he will suffer no more HilLies

The gloves are coming off, and the timing is perfect.

[earthside]

28. Hillary is screwed.

(I mean that colloquially.)

Clinton's biggest problem is her inconsistency, her willingness to trim her sails on issues, to say anything, affect any regional accent necessary, etc.

So, does she tack to the left to appeal to the Sanders movement?
Does she tack to the right because she is still so arrogant as to assume that she is the eventual nominee and wants to make an appeal to 'moderate' Repuglicans?

Does she play nice and not constantly interrupt Sen. Sanders?
Or does she go aggressive and try and play gotcha?

Sen. Sanders just has to be himself.

Hillary has to make a big decision about which Hillary is going to show up.
And ... no matter which Hillary does appear at this debate, we are all going to know that there is still another Hillary out there somewhere.

Hillary Clinton by being so politically expedient for all of her political career has made this bed for herself.
Hillary Clinton is the definition of a "credibility gap".

[Armstead]

29. The one who will portray Sanders as anti-immigrant

[think]

33. Yep. And pull some omnibus bill vote out and point to a specific in it to make her claim.

[thereismore]

37. My guess is super nice "Bernie and I" . nt

[RufusTFirefly]

62. Yes! After all, there's hardly any difference between them!

(Except, of course, that one voted for the illegal Iraq invasion and one didn't, one voted for that affront to the Fourth Amendment, the PATRIOT Act, and one didn't, one is adamantly opposed to the death penalty and one supports it, one has supported same-sex marriage for years and one hasn't, one has long recognized the damaging effects of so-called "free trade" agreements, while the other has vocally supported them until the last few months, and, of course, one has been a longtime advocate of single-payer health care, while the other insists that this mark of a civilized nation is "never, ever gonna come to pass.&quot

[kenn3d]

41. Shifty-shifty... like Randall Boggs

Her constantly shifting positions are dizzying to everyone but her supporters.

As of her "victory" speech yesterday, she now wants to be the president of those who are struggling and striving and NOT for the wealthy and well-to-do (because they don't NEED her).... smh.

And she's so proud of the campaign she AND Bernie are conducting. She's gradually co-opted 90% of his platform and now wants to take credit for his amazingly resilient campaign which continues to thwart her presumed coronation.

She reminds me of Randall Boggs (Monsters Inc)
/revision/latest?cb=20131026033830
Shifty-shifty.

[CoffeeCat]

44. She usually toggles back and forth between

"Ahilla The Hun" and "Snow White Hillary."

Obviously, this is a very astute strategy. You beat the shit out of your opponent, lie about them and act like a bully in one debate, then your opponent arrives at the next debate--geared up to do the same to you. However, you arrive in "Snow White" mode, looking confident, poised and kind.

This really can throw an opponent off. Because not only are you angry, you're now frustrated that you can't attack because they're now behaving graciously.

I'd expect "Snow White Hillary" tonight.

However, it will be interesting because her campaign was just dealt a huge loss and a big psychological blow. Hillary isn't exactly her best after a disappointment like that. Bernie will definitely have the psychological advantage because he is coming off of this YUGE win.

I really hope that Bernie is prepared to really go after her. You can do it with kindness. However, I've been a bit disappointed at his failure to really take her to task in the last debate. Hit her hard with the truth. That's all you need to do. No subject should be off the table.

[BernieforPres2016]

45. Hillary and her inner circle are so tone deaf

Who knows which Hillary will show up? She's kind of painted herself into a corner. Bernie is going to keep hitting her with her support for trade deals and being cozy with Wall Street. He is on the winning side of those issues but if she tries to move towards his positions it just reinforces the impression that she will say or do anything to get elected.

Bernie will be better prepared on the Wall Street versus auto industry bailout smear that she hit him with in Flint. I saw from a story that another former Senator (Dorgan) who voted with Bernie had difficulty remembering the specifics and sequence of the votes.

Since the debate is in Miami and on Univision, I would guess the DNC will try to steer the questions to softer issues where there won't be much disagreement between the candidates. They would like to make it a "debate" where both candidates are singing Kumbaya.

[DefenseLawyer]

46. I bet we hear the word "socialist" at least once. n/t

[kennetha]

54. Tough as nails, smart as hell, she will finally dismantle Sanders and put an end to this farce

but she will do it gently, with slow, deep, subtle twists of the knife.

[Mike Nelson]

55. I predict she will...

..."show up." Her voice seemed to be improving last evening. Looking forward to the debate!

[RufusTFirefly]

56. Anyone here remember when DWS severely restricted the number of debates?

And many people fell over themselves to defend that obviously rigged decision?

[Jefferson23]

57. She could pull the rug out from under him and bring her WS transcripts and say, see?

Nothing there...or not. She has the opportunity yet I see her going into
this debate vulnerable and without a clear means to do nothing more than
tread water. She has the delegate count, she will repeat that, she will
say she has the endorsements, she has Obama too. She risks more attacking
him and he should be prepared to talk about race relations as they relate
to everyday life for poc, no matter where they are on the income scale.

I don't feel he needs to shy away from saying I am not best at articulating
the concerns of the black experience for Americans..he can say he wants
to continue to reach out and learn. Letting her place him on defense is what
he should avoid.

[DebDoo]

61. She's going to double down

Hillary refuses to admit she's wrong. So if her strategy didn't work it must be because she didn't do it strong enough.

And then she'll blame the media: Trump gets too much time, she doesn't get any.

[DebDoo]

96. More like quadrupled

But I was close. And now that it's clear and obvious that she had more, uninterrupted, speaking time I'm sure the media complaints are next on the schedule.

[Blue State Bandit]

65. I can't get this out of my head now...

[Attorney in Texas]

67. The one who name checks Ohio, Illinois, Missouri, and Florida like a cheesy band on a road tour

[Dragonfli]

78. I really can't say, she is consistently inconsistent on issues, the truth, and even her personality.

If I had to take a wild guess, judging on her '08 campaign, as things began not to go as she planed (and her inability to believe she ever made mistakes). My guess would be this is where she will begin to unravel, just like in '08, her face gets harder and meaner, her lies more transparent, and her anger begins to get the better of her. That is just a guess based on the pattern of her '08 unraveling, where she began to defeat herself FOR Obama. It is how she gets when things aren't going as she PERFECTLY in (her mind) plans them.

[Matariki]

84. It's in Florida - so definitely a mention of Castro

and probably something about Israel

[Docreed2003]

85. Tonight...

Tonight the meme will portray Sec Clinton, the advocate for sending children refuges back where they came from, as the ultimate representative of Latinos, while portraying Bernie as either being anti-immigrant/immigration. That's my prediction.

[Vinca]

89. Most likely cranky Hillary. At least she's got something new to yell about.