2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary staffer lying about auto bailout AGAIN, on MSNBC
Amanda someone. Asked directly if Bernie has been good for the auto industry in Michigan, Amanda said "He wasn't there when they needed him" referring to the allocation of money.
AND.....when asked why Hillary lost Michigan, she said "I have no answer for that."
arcane1
(38,613 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)bailed when it came time to actually pass into law something that would actually bail out the auto industry. Doesn't matter that he voted for a purely symbolic measure that did not become law. Nice to express solidarity and all, but where are you when the chips are down? riding your high moral horse, to ideological pure to get your hands dirty in the real world.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)islandmkl
(5,275 posts)the lie has been voted on....
kennetha
(3,666 posts)(a) Bernie voted against TARP, some of the funds of which were used by Obama to save the auto Industry.
(b) Bernie voted for a stand alone auto bailout that never became law and had no chance of becoming law.
(c) the prospect of saving the auto industry wasn't enough to persuade him to vote for Tarp
(d) the reason for (c) is that he wanted to punish the millionaire and billionaire class rather than bail them out.
(e) Tarp save averted the prospect of an immediate collapse of the global economy into a world wide depression.
(f) averting a world wide depression wasn't reason enough to vote for Tarp or to vote for the auto bailout in Bernie's mind.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)bullshit analysis that you represent as 'facts'...
i usually suggest Google as someone's friend...in your case, I won't bother...
phazed0
(745 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)Thank you.
anothergreenbus
(110 posts)These are the lies that keep Americans in chains and the country in tatters.
kacekwl
(7,016 posts)had no mention of auto bailout. Obama pulled funds from that after the fact.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)at the time of the vote. There was no mention of the car companies in the bill. It was President Obama who diverted the money to the car companies and was attacked by the Republicans for doing so. The President used the loose wording in the bill to get it done. Hillary had absolutely nothing to do with it. Hartmann set a reporter straight on this today.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)signaling his intentions to use some of the funds to bail out the auto industry, among many other things.
The incoming president did some very heavy lifting here:
http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1871532,00.html
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)You have to quit listening to Hillary. She obviously is stretching the truth.
FactCheck says no. The majority of the money was allocated under Bush.
Clinton referred to a bill that came up in January 2009, but that measure was mostly about bailing out failing financial institutions and reducing home foreclosures, not about saving the auto industry, as Clinton claimed.
The Senate vote on Jan. 15, 2009, was on a measure that would have blocked the Treasury Department from gaining access to the second half of a $700 billion Wall Street bailout package. President-elect Obama urged Senate Democrats to allow the release of the second $350 billion which included an additional $4 billion already promised to automakers by Bush. But Obama made no mention at the time of using TARP to provide any more money for the automakers.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/factchecking-the-seventh-democratic-debate/
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)As the Obama Administration carries out the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, our actions will reflect the Acts original purpose of preventing systemic consequences in the financial and housing markets. The incoming Obama Administration has no intention of using any funds to implement an industrial policy.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)and what Bernie opposed:
http://prospect.org/article/unpopular-successful-auto-bailout
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)at the time, Sanders had no reason to believe that any funds would go to help the car companies. President Obama deserves credit not Hillary.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)Its unclear how much of the second half of TARP funds Obama intended to use for the auto bailout at the time. In a letter to congressional leaders encouraging them to release the funds, Obama economic adviser Larry Summers said only that auto companies would "only receive additional assistance in the context of a comprehensive restructuring designed to achieve long-term viability."
that doesn't say no additional funds. that says any additional funds will be assigned in the context of comprehensive restructuring.
i.e. not just throwing a band-aid on the problem, but actually trying to get the auto industry back on its feet.
Only to a Hillary supporter avoiding reality
As the Obama Administration carries out the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, our actions will reflect the Acts original purpose of preventing systemic consequences in the financial and housing markets. The incoming Obama Administration has no intention of using any funds to implement an industrial policy.
Most rational people will see that as none. The letter clearly states the money will be used for the housing and financial markets.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)was used to rescue the auto industry.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)as you claimed. Playing financial games in the stock market is what got GM in trouble. GM was dipping into the workers retirement and healthcare funds and tried to make it up by issuing bonds and investing money in the dot-com boom and lost their butts. Management at GM should be in jail.
President Obama deserves credit here as well for protecting the workers assets(that didn't belong to GM) from those who wanted to give the money to the fools who borrowed money to the crooks at GM who were cooking the books.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)President Obama deserves credit here as well for protecting the workers assets(that didn't belong to GM) from those who wanted to give the money to the fools who borrowed money to the crooks at GM who were cooking the books.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)not being a mind reader?
Response to Mnpaul (Reply #42)
Post removed
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)when called out on your fact free nonsense.
So, ya, you agree with bailing out crooks at our expense
anothergreenbus
(110 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)that's what bailed out GM
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)1. You're against it.
2. It's not good enough and you want it improved.
Everyone knows fucking well Bernie was voting that second one and he was in favor of the auto bailout. And everyone knows fucking well that the Clinton campaign is trying with all their might to try to convince people it was the first one.
So, with all due respect, screw your spinning attempt to smear the United States most progressive Senator in the cause of getting America's most bought and paid for Democratic politician elected.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)that's precisely the point.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Attaching actual real consequences for the banks to TARP bailout money was *entirely* politically feasible.
The reason it didn't happen wasn't that it couldn't, it's that we didn't have enough people like Bernie who gave enough of a shit to push back and demand better. And here you are all twisted in knots about the fact that we had any at all.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)the Republicans were willing to let the auto industry go bankrupt.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)But of course that requires a spine... which is in rare supply in Congress.
Omaha Steve
(99,573 posts)Your talking point is behind the times.
The UAW sent a private members only message on Facebook that ripped Hillary for her comments on the bailout on Sunday nights debate. They have members in IL, MO, and OH for next weeks open primarys too.
Are you going to tell the the UAW they are wrong?
Then there are a couple US Senators that endorsed Hillary but voted with Bernie on TARP that have come out to criticize her too.
OS
kennetha
(3,666 posts)CYA cowardice -- just like Bernie.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)kick the bucket down the road a bit. We've still got many of the same issues and practices in play that caused the economic crisis to begin with - again, corrupt financial institutions, big banks and wall street... nearly obliterated the world economy. The TARP legislation was largely a band aid being placed over a severed limb. There were good things that were done with it - such as the auto-bailout, but I don't blame Bernie one bit for voting NOT to bail out the financial industry/wall street. I wish all of our elected democrats, independents - and hell, even republicans, had reconsidered that legislation and instead put together something with more teeth. Bailouts, yes, but in exchange for very strong regulations and controls. Bailouts, sure, but with a considerable interest rates and much of the funding and many back payments to the people who's lives were ruined by the greed and corruption of the financial industry. This did not happen.
I suspect if better legislation had been put together, it would have gotten support from Bernie, too. No one was held accountable, in the largest financial scandal in the history of the frigging world... people did not go to prison, there was no thorough investigation - and many of those same people are today millionaires and billionaires playing the same kinds of games they were before.
When the chips are down? How about a 7.50 minimum wage? How about tens of thousands of dollars of debt for a four year degree? How about not having health insurance? How about NOT getting us into stupid wars that cost trillions of dollars? How about NOT voting for the Patriot Act, the IWR, opposing Citizens United since it's beginning. How about the candidate who is raising the vast majority of his campaign money from regular people?
I'll tell you where Bernie is when the chips are down - he's the man trying to put shit back together, trying to save our democracy and put a stop to corrupt financial practices that never should have been possible to begin with.
That being said - to say that he was not there for the auto-industry or did not support them is a blatant lie. He voted in their favor, but not in favor of the corrupt millionaires and billionaires that crashed our economy. Of course, you can hold to the notion that TARP rescued the whole world and solved the problems it should have (it didn't, and it didn't) but present reality would indicate that that certainly is not the case.
The real world? Sanders, unlike many other politicians, seems to have some inkling as to what the hell it actually is.
kath
(10,565 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)
Camp Hillary of lying you bad Democrat you
djean111
(14,255 posts)I see no point in listening to or reading anything that comes out of Hillary or her campaign at this point. So I won't.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Please proceed.....
kennetha
(3,666 posts)why back down from the truth?
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)It helps Sanders with his ideologically pure base, I guess, who would rather condemn the whole economy to a depression than bail out wall street and the automobile industry.
They want punishment. Pure and simple. If it means taking the whole world economy down with the bankers, so be it!
bvf
(6,604 posts)Hear the music?
PDittie
(8,322 posts)I can't watch them any more. If it's not Trump it's Clinton surrogates spinning their asses off.
I only watch CNN when THEY're not talking about or broadcasting Herr Drumpf.
Just turn them off. There's no truth or reality being broadcast there. They have tubed every progressive, from KO to Ed Shultz to MHP. Don't give them the ratings.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Heileman and Halperin, on at 6 Eastern time. They are purely focused on the politics of the campaigns, and will call out anyone who is spinning. It is very interesting, IMO.
PDittie
(8,322 posts)I watched their Showtime series, "The Greatest Show on Earth" I believe, and was powerfully unimpressed. Those guys still seem to be drafting of their book success from a few years ago.
phazed0
(745 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)that's okay, let them keep thinking that.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)see above
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)refused to be a "socialist" with that much at stake
they are like their rightwingnut cousins insomuch as they lie as much as they need to while not caring how glaringly stupid or inconsistent with their other bs it is
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Blah, blah, blah...
More crap.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,935 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Even after every fact checker and some former senators have said it was a lie.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)Here is how it works...A campaign surrogate will tell a huge lie on a Corporate network for their candidate (in this case its Hillary) and they only have to tell that lie once.
The network such as mentioned MSNBC (the Clinton campaign press corp) will repeat this lie over and over again.
Rachel will repeat it,then Tweety,then Mrs Greemspan and all the other MSNBC hosts .By time this lie has made the cycle more will be added to this lie and then other campaign staffers will come back on and reinforce it..This is the Karl Rove and Dick Cheney way and they used this strategy all the time. Hillary's campaign has 3 right wing advisers plus Bill that know this system well and know how to use the networks to accomplish this strategy.