2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWe are going to lose this elections...
Mathematically is looks like Hillary Clinton is going to be the Democratic nominee. That is just a fact. Bernie would have to start winning 60/40 not 51/49 to really change the narrative. Yet everyday I come to DU to read latest topics and I see nothing but vitriol aimed towards her. Even freerepublic isn't this bad. Seems that Bernie supporter are willing to let the country "bern" if their candidate doesn't get the nomination. So unfortunate that some folks don't see the bigger picture. Supreme Court is at stake people!
Oh well, I'm just one vote. Maybe President Trump is going to be so bad. Sad.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)
dana_b
(11,546 posts)or at least.. nvm.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)You made me want to check, was surprised.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Dem2
(8,166 posts)Not my business, but they post here and there.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511468227
Baobab
(4,667 posts)follow that?
So lots of GOP faithful will vote for her. LOTS.
The Dems are the new Republicans now.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)
rofl: : 
IF A + B = C then C + B = X I think I got it
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Though forty years after the fact, i have finally figured out what that letter really indicates
cyberpj
(10,794 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Good one!
Mudcat
(179 posts)
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
SCantiGOP
(13,865 posts)Response to NurseJackie (Reply #13)
Marr This message was self-deleted by its author.
artislife
(9,497 posts)I guess you don't remember how dismissive the h supporters were in spring. Dare I even say, smugness.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Dem2
(8,166 posts)
Interesting split among the Sanders crowd.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)They honestly can't see the forest for the trees.
JFKDem62
(383 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)...yes.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)that would be good.
But in many states, the voting machines are demonstrably insecure.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)and that has to be fixed. We have a very antiquated and corrupt election process, made even worse by unverifiable electronic voting.
We still have to vote. And hope enough get counted.
Sad, in a country that prides itself on "Democracy" and rule of law. We need massive election reform.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Would you want to be facing the prospect of decades of REALLY bad policy coming out, suddenly?
GOP and Clinton and the current Dem leadership will join hands to get ther gal elected.. put aside their differences..
Just like...
JFKDem62
(383 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)Do you think they would let some big lies come out? Because if Bernie wins, some very big lies which have been made to us for a long time, likely would come out. And for some reason, I just don't see them letting that happen, ya know.
Either that or the country will be supplied with more lies. and Bernie will find he cannot actually do any of the things he promised he would do.
For example, we might be told we "can't afford single payer" "because its too expensive". NOTHING could be farther from the truth.
Same thing with education. We've been fed a pack of lies on so many things public services related.
JFKDem62
(383 posts)and matter of fact. Now we can not quite remember how unthinkable it was to elect an AA president.
It will happen with Bernie the same way.
There really isn't a "they" any more. The GOP party is in shambles and has little control at this time.
The Democratic Party elite and icons are losing credibility every day.
Of course we can afford to educate our children, and ensure that our citizens receive medical care.
There is always enough money for weapons and arms.
Obama was our first 21st century re-boot.
Bernie will be the 2nd reboot of the 21st century.
It has already begun and there is no turning back.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Black Americans may be proud of him now but his policies are going to hurt them tremendously. All Americans are going to pay a heavy price for not doing their homework on the Clintons and Obama unless we dump them and repudiate their global push for irreversible privatization.
JFKDem62
(383 posts)It may serve them well to give Americans some equity in terms of wage, education and healthcare.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)and we should pretend to like her policies?
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)If not, I don't see any argument not to vote for her, at least not if you live in a state where your vote might matter.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Two
Response to timlot (Original post)
Cali_Democrat This message was self-deleted by its author.
elleng
(130,742 posts)we will lose.'
Marco Rubio
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)
tokenlib
(4,186 posts)They've had their run..it's time for them to go..
But let's get Bernie as our nominee instead..then we will win...
Pat Riots
(76 posts)we cannot have any real change in this country unless we support real agents of change.
it is long past time we insist on the Democratic party to not take corporate money. and saying "Supreme Court" doesnt convince me to support a rather conservative person running as a Democrat.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)n/t
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)That's the bottom line.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)
cemaphonic
(4,138 posts)Not saying it's going to be easy. Keeping the WH after 8 years with an angry electorate is an uphill battle. But the Republicans seem determined to drive into a ditch, so I think we have a decent shot. Besides, 2008 was worse - people will calm down once the primaries wrap up.
I do think that whomever wins this year will almost certainly be a one-term president.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Bernie supporters en masse decide not to vote for her, by saying their personal needs and gripes outweigh the needs of the many
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It's up to her to earn their votes, and she's doing a really crappy job of it.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)
dubyadiprecession
(5,697 posts)Nobody on the left wants to just hand it to trump.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Many are planning to vote for Jill Stein or write in his name should Clinton be the nominee.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)'Course we've been hearing this bullshit of how Bernie supporters are dooming the party ever since he declared, so, we're kind of inured to it.
You need a new party trick.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)People driven out by the TiSA will take every penny they have and move to places like Central America in droves to live in towns where people are being forced out of favelas in droves so that condominiums can be built for said fleeing Americans.
After all, most of them don't have birth certificates, so just like in Africa, they don't exist. Major land grab.
A few bursts in the air with an AK47 and they're out of there.
It takes a child to raze a village.
edgineered
(2,101 posts)That changed when I got two failure notices though, one in English, one in Social Studies, and one in Math. None the less, because you can prove Clinton will win by using math I will take the Bernie magnet off of my car and abandon all hopes of voting for him on Tuesday. Go (away) Hillary!
demwing
(16,916 posts)"I got two failure notices though, one in English, one in Social Studies, and one in Math."
edgineered
(2,101 posts)more often though, it is something i throw out in conversations to see if i'm being listened to.
LOL
Broward
(1,976 posts)
jillan
(39,451 posts)As of this very moment....
Pledged Delegates
Hillary Clinton 745
Bernie Sanders 540
We are still a long ways away from 2383, aren't we?
brush
(53,743 posts)demwing
(16,916 posts)WHY DID NO ONE TELL US?
Does Dianna Ross know?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)If Hillary's campaign strategy were something other than "I'm going to tell easily disproven lies about my opponent at every opportunity and distort his record every chance I get", you'd probably see less "vitriol" (most of which is 100% deserved).
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)DU is made up of politically passionate people. Some of them will not support the Democratic nominee, but my guess is that any gay, Muslim, black, Hispanic, or woman will come around because a President Trump with a Republican Congress will have a direct impact on them. Hillary will lose a few Bernie-supporting minorities and women and more Bernie supporting white guys because they can afford to stand on principle in a society that is still quite racist, homophobic, sexist, and Islamophobic. In the end, most Bernie supporters will come around, and the same is true of Hillary supporters who may feel the attacks on Hillary have been very unfair.
But, more importantly, most voters are not that political. They may have opinions, but they do not live their lives in a political sphere. They will be the ones who will decide the election and if Hillary is the nominee, they will choose her because she's the less risky choice. If Bernie is the nominee, he will have to rely heavily on the millennials who aren't afraid of his social democratic views. At any rate, I feel certain that both Hillary and Sanders are prepared to give the nominee a ringing endorsement because they understand this election is not about them, it's about the rest of us.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)about 53.5% in the remaining states to pass Hillary in pledged delegates before the convention.
If Sanders has gained momentum between now and then, that is not an unrealistic goal.
If he hasn't gained enough momentum to pass Clinton, he will nevertheless have (1) improved Hillary's amateurish campaign, (2) changed the national debate for the better, (3) given hope to the hopeless progressive base who are uninterested in the watery gruel Hillary is serving, (4) ignited a movement within the Democratic Party that will have more relevance than Occupy Wall Street which was operating outside of the Democratic Party, (5) paved the way for a liberal campaign in the down ballot races of 2016, in the mid-term elections of 2018, and in the 2020 fight against the Cruz administration, etc.
Your math is wrong. The race will go up to the convention and and the movement will last long past 2016.
Sanders supporters are working to see him nominated because he can win the general election and Hillary cannot. Sanders is the underdog in the primary, but Clinton will be an even bigger underdog against a Cruz-Kasich ticket.
You are right that the Supreme Court is at stake. The path you suggest leads straight to Ted Cruz packing that Court.
noamnety
(20,234 posts)andym
(5,443 posts)IN 2009, I put up a link to a quiz which allowed people to evaluate how progressive they were. I then asked DU members to self report the result. Turned out that a very large percentage (maybe >90%) were far left progressive, representing <1% of the electorate-- Poll results are turned off in that old version of DU forums but here is the link http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7349242
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)
rickford66
(5,521 posts)Seems lots of others have been also. What was wrong with a debate? The group's reaction to anything not 100% for Hill could be why the Bernie people are reacting as they are.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)While every poll says Bernie beats all the GOP candidates by large margins and Hillary does not. So why are the Hillary supporters so selfish that they don't want the Democrats to win unless it is THEIR candidate? She will LOSE in the GE and Bernie will WIN.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)because he dared throw his hat in the ring, taking away her uncontested coronation.
Bernie, OTOH, has demonstrated a great deal of class during this primary even though he's been on the receiving end of a lot of ugly stuff thrown out by the Clintonites.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)
LWolf
(46,179 posts)we're going to lose this election, and it won't be because Democrats supporting Sanders don't vote for her.
She will galvanize the Republican turnout and she will not get the independent/3rd party support, or the crossover support, that Sanders can.
She has a better chance of victory in the primaries. Sanders has the better chance of victory in the GE. It's so unfortunate that some folks refuse to "get" that; refuse to see THAT bigger picture.
Sad.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...yet you don't see the vitriol aimed at Bernie Sanders?
Oh, I see: you're pushing the canard that the primaries are over, and we all need to get behind Hillary Clinton.
Well, no, the primaries are not over yet, and the deep south where she always held her most solid leads has almost finished voting (IIRC, there is one of those states left to vote). After that, it all looks better for Bernie; not to mention the all-important factor of momentum.
Anyway, we should all keep in mind Hillary's admonition that a primary candidate should not drop out early, because anything can happen.
Bernie is in it to the convention, and he's not dropping out, no matter how fervently Hillary Clinton and her supporters wish it.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)
joshcryer
(62,269 posts)Don't get worked up. The PUMAs were just as pathetic.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)The PUMA's were just as adamant that they would not vote for Obama as the Bernie or Bust folks are now. And I bet at least some of the Hillary supporters who are telling us we have to vote for her were PUMA's.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Climate change and the continued existence of humanity. And Her Majesty, the queen of fracking and the KXL is an absolute disaster on those issues.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)vitriol. Sanders has done little for Dems to deserve this adulation.
mak3cats
(1,573 posts)...if a (regrettably) flawed candidate like HRC is our candidate. Your concern is noted. We have concerns as well.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)they shouldn't be supporting a Republican with such a horrible stance on the issues. You need a candidate whose ideas you can promote, like Bernie, not one whose only "selling points" are gender and "if you don't vote for her you'll be voting for Trump!!!!!"
Blackmail by Hillary's pal Drumpf was a shitty strategy. No one respects a blackmailer. Want to beat Drumpf? Vote for Bernie!
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)is funny.
Let's just give up now. What's the use?
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)But it's always nice to hear from the Surrender Monkey Wing of the Democratic Party.
november3rd
(1,113 posts)The election is a long way off. (So is the convention.)
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)Plenty of us have said that we will support Hillary if she is the nominee. Like you, most of us believe that the Supreme Court seat and the scariness of the candidates on the other side make it a no brainer.
I acknowledge that there are some very vocal Bernie or Bust folks on here, but they do not speak for all of us.
beedle
(1,235 posts)... keeps moving closer and closer to Sanders in policy, let's assume Clinton wins the primary and goes on to the GE.
When the inevitable happens and she swings back to the right and abandons the left wing of the party again, will you still be blaming the loss on everyone who is now disgusted with Clinton's betrayal? Or will you put the blame where it belongs, on a politician who betrays the trust of her voters?
The real difference here is that Bernie supporters are supporting Bernie because they've seen this play any number of times. Democratic politicians pretending to be progressive until they run in the GE ... and when they get elected the betray both side in favor of ruing for the benefit of the corporations and lobbyists.
"Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, won't get fooled again" seems almost appropriate somehow.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)that they are willing to burn every bridge in sight, then blame their losses on the people on the other sides of those bridges. Clueless and hypocritical.
brooklynite
(94,361 posts)It doesn't scare me. The key is not to buy into our own propaganda that every Republican is a bible-thumping Tea-Party crazy. Bottom line is that 60-65% of Republicans AREN'T supporting trump now, and a larger than average share of them won't be voting for him as Republican nominee and can get picked off by a mainstream Democat. Add to which, a lot of the holier-than-thou venting you read here will dissapate (as the PUMA movement did), and we'll also have over-sized turnouts by the Blacks, Hispanics, Women and other voting groups Trump has offended.
Sivart
(325 posts)Which makes you wonder why so many are supporting her, given that many people believe electability is such an important factor.
She may be your most favoritest in the world, but if she cannot inspire other people to get on board and vote for her, then you have to ask yourself if she is the right candidate.
Blaming the voters for not eating what she's cooking is a text book case of burying your head in the sand. Its her job to sell it. That is what running for the nomination is all about. Period. She has to sell it. Its 100 percent on her.