Sanders Supporters Must Stop Repeating GOP Lies About Hillary Clinton - a Sanders supporter's appeal

[Recoverin_Republican]

Bernie Sanders Supporters Must Stop Repeating GOP Lies About Hillary Clinton

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have shown a lot of professionalism towards each other as they compete for the Democratic nomination. In comparison to the shitshow that is the GOP race, Clinton and Sanders look like responsible adults discussing issues imperative to the future of Democrats and liberal policies.

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I belong to a number of pro-Bernie Sanders groups on social media, and [font color="red"]the sheer volume of anti-Hillary posts by individuals from conspiracy or conservative websites is staggering[/font]. These people link Breitbart, Infowars, March Against Monsanto, The Daily Caller and other websites to make their claim that Hillary Clinton is the worst person ever – or that President Obama was a gay prostitute in his younger days.[/font]

As I have repeatedly stated before, I am a Bernie Sanders supporter, despite our minor differences on science and genetic technology. I switched from No Party Affiliation to Democrat for the first time in years, simply so that I could vote for Bernie.

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Now I stand with Bernie Sanders, [font size="3"]but I’m imploring fellow supporters to level their criticisms of Hillary Clinton based on well-reasoned arguments involving policy, rather than some blog from a conservative website which was designed to be shared in multiple social media groups by people who don’t check their facts before posting.[/font]

If you do not take pragmatism, reason and fact-checking into consideration before voicing your opinion – the GOP is counting on exactly that for a win in November

... the authors experience is certainly consistent with what we see here on GD- primaries. I'd guess about 90% of the pro-Sanders posts are baseless attacks on HRC, often using innuendo without actually making a formal argument which would invite debunking or a demand for evidence. Disinformation often is despensed in the form of innuendo and implication - this is much more effective in terms of leaving an impression thus starting/continuing a destructive meme.

[Nanjeanne]

1. Which ones should we stop repeating. The one about wanting to dismantle

healthcare? Or the one about supporting minutemen? Or wanting criminals to have access to guns? Or being against the auto bailout?

Oh wait . . .

[UglyGreed]

4. It's so confusing

[Nanjeanne]

6. But . . .

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[UglyGreed]

8. Oops

sorry

[Ferd Berfel]

16. My question also

[JackRiddler]

22. It says a lot about this appeal that there is no specificity.

Which lies would these be, indeed?

[vintx]

30. +1

[Baobab]

23. Wanting to dismantle healthcare is irrelevant because all public services have been under attack

since the Clinton era WTO GATS agreement was signed in 1995

Good explanation on why is in the first bulleted item of the statement below from the European University Association - the master organization of universities and colleges in Europe 850 members strong

EUA Council statement on TTIP and TISA:

this is also good reading on the poisonous definition.

Interpretation of Article I, Section 3 (b) and (c) of GATS - PublicServicesScope.pdf
http://www.ciel.org/Publications/PublicServicesScope.pdf

[cosmicone]

2. This means 90% of the DU threads in GD: P will be no more n/t

[kath]

12. bullshit. a lie on your part.

[cosmicone]

17. So much anger ... SMH n/t

[Fawke Em]

24. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention. eom

[cosmicone]

29. Anger almost never helps people attain their goals.

It is wasted energy.

[TM99]

44. Actually you are wrong.

Constructive anger emboldens us to passionate seek an end to the fear and pain at the root of the anger.

You have made it abundantly clear that you want for nothing. You do not understand this type of fear and pain.

[cosmicone]

48. Anger only revvs up people to extreme and inflexible positions

on both sides of the anger while turning off all the non-partisans.

Anger makes people take actions or say things that they otherwise would not have done or said. Anger causes lasting damage to relationships.

This is exactly why tea party fizzled and OWS fizzled -- people don't like angry people.

[TM99]

50. Still wrong.

My job is human behavior.

Constructive anger allows for change. What you think is anger is actually rage, and there is a difference.

The Tea Party hardly fizzled. They took over the House! OWS did not fizzle either. Collectively they have been a driving force behind Sanders insurgent campaign.

[earthside]

31. Except I see very few if any lies about Hillary on DU.

And the little article didn't mention any either.

So, no, DU would be just as busy as ever.

[cosmicone]

45. My experience is different

I see 99.9% of posts about how evil and horrible Hillary is as lies, smears and regurgitated RW memes.

If she is so horrible, how come she has received almost 2 million votes more than the free-stuff candidate?

[Major Hogwash]

57. Nancy Reagan pioneered the conversations for helping HIV/AIDS victims.

Do you mean lies like that?

Ya know, where Hillary has to go on Twitter and apologize for lying out of both sides of her mouth.



She'll never make it to the Final Four.

[mcar]

3. K&R

[hobbit709]

5. What about the truths-should we stop repeating the truth?

[Baobab]

28. thats what i wanted to know. The problem is the truth has been suppressed for SO long in the media

that people dont recognize what is the truth and what isnt.

Virtually everything we ve read in the news on healthcare since around 2007 has been wrong.

Links above here is another good one on how attacks public services globally

http://www.ictsd.org/downloads/2008/06/cassim_steuart_part3.pdf

[arcane1]

7. "well-reasoned arguments involving policy" are 99% of the posts that could be called "anti-"

I haven't seen anyone on DU claim Obama was a gay prostitute.

Which lies are being repeated here?

[amborin]

9. NY Times how she bungled LIbya? Bought votes in NY? LIed about free trade? Kill the Messenger here!

[Lizzie Poppet]

10. Just because some GOP stopped clock hit one of their "twice a day" moments of being right...

...doesn't mean everything they assert about Hillary is suddenly wrong. Most of it? Sure. All of it? Nope.

Hillary gives any critic, GOP or otherwise, all the ammo they could ever want.

[cyberpj]

11. Tell us the lies you're talking about please. I use fact check sites-not finding outright lies there

So please, be specific.

Can you?

[cyberpj]

27. Waiting....... nt

[greymouse]

51. crickets

The OP is a last gasp throwing it out there like Hillary does, hoping no one will examine the claims.

[cyberpj]

53. I don't know why I bother responding to posts I know are planted like this. I'm trying to quit, lol.

[dana_b]

54. See? This is what gets to me

They say "stop lying about her" but when you ask them to point out the lies, they CAN'T because what is being said about her here on DU is the TRUTH!!

So no - we won't stop. Get your candidate to stop LYING and to stop being center-right, pro bank, pro Wall Street corporatist, Oh - who has supported all of the recent wars and actions over seas.

[yardwork]

13. Thank you. Demonizing a Democrat is stupid.

[Fawke Em]

26. And so is kissing someone's butt just because they have a "D" after their name.

We should respect them (or not) for their policies and stances on issues.

[yardwork]

34. Absolutely, but repeating right wing lies is stupid.

[Baobab]

39. What is - espousing an extreme ideology called neoliberalism that is totally right wing?

HRC and Obama espouse an extreme ideology called neoliberalism in their policy that is totally right wing. you cant get any more right wing than wanting to globally privatize education and health care.

Or in obama's case, public housing..(i.e Chicago) the Clinton's GATS made that privatization not only possible. Mandatory.

Right now the US's trade policy goals seem to be totally right wing- freezing and rolling back the public services around the world that stand in the way of making oodles of profit on health insurance, drugs and for pay, profit education brands. Also setting up huge guest worker programs that push down wages in the services by trading jobs for markets.. an example is TiSA and GATS (comparison between the two deals here ) so called "Mode Four" provisions.

[jfern]

14. Most attacks from liberals are factual and using liberal sources

[GreatGazoo]

15. Including the "March Against Monsanto" on that list says a lot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_Against_Monsanto

[Attorney in Texas]

18. Hillary Clinton is NOT the worst person ever. She is the worst CANDIDATE ever to grab endorsements

from so many party insiders and other establishment figureheads.

I like Hillary fine. I just have two problems with her: (1) I disagree with her ideologically and (2) I dispute that she can successfully carry the Democratic nomination to victory in November.

It's not more complicated than that.

[Baobab]

32. What about the dishonesy?

I guess the attorney profession closes ranks about that? Did you know that even attorneys are going to feel the GATS burn?

http://www.americanbar.org/content/aba/groups/professional_responsibility/policy/gats_international_agreements/track_two.html

http://www.americanbar.org/content/aba/groups/professional_responsibility/policy/gats_international_agreements/track_one.html

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/policy/gats_international_agreements/track_one_docs.html

[Attorney in Texas]

38. It was Bill Clinton who was disbarred for lying under oath, not Hillary. Even Bill's many lies don't

make him the worst person ever. They just make him an attorney disbarred for lying under oath. That's a serious crime (perhaps the worst crime ever committed by a spouse of a presidential contender), but every day there are worse crimes than that committed on earth and forgiven in heaven.

[Baobab]

40. did he get his law license back? or was it permanent?

I didn't realize that they could be disbarred for simply lying under oath? What if they have (another) lawyer do it for them? is that the socially sanctioned method?

[Attorney in Texas]

47. I think he is eligible to petition for reinstatement of his law license, but I don't think he has

made any such petition.

I think he was ordered disbarred and voluntarily surrendered his license rather than appealing the disbarment.

My recollection of the details is a bit hazy so I could be wrong.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I literally had a post hidden for calling out a poster for citing a right wing source.

[Baobab]

20. Is the following article in the International Journal of Health Services a "theory"?

Example:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.405.5725

It shows why our health care is the way it is now- and its nothing like what you read in the media is the reason.. Which one is right? its easy to show that the journal article is right, and literally 95% of the alleged facts the country is being fed in the media are wrong..


Below the arguments in the paper above are verified to be true by the leading NGO in Canada.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.678.59

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Good examples abound everywhere. Trade is the #1 topic which brings forth MAJOR deception.

Anything involving trade or the WTO is dismissed with a wave of the hand as conspiracy theory, the problem is, its all factually verifiable and its truly an ugly situation.

the problem is the US media which is pretending the WTO does not exist! Even as it causes huge problems like forcing the repeal of Glass-Steagall, leading to the 2008 financial crisis. (Which can be verified on the WTO web site)

I suggest that you engage with people who speak truth to power and don't put your head in the sand.. for example, GATS is a trade deal thats trying - GLOBALLY to dismantle public health care and education, (it just succeeded on the latter of the two in India- in exchange there was an implicit promise of access to jobs in developing countries, among other things)

Please read more here:

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/columns/will-the-gats-close-on-higher-education/article8042337.ece

http://www.dailyo.in/politics/occupy-ugc-smriti-irani-higher-education-modi-government-wto-gats-chennai-hrd-ministry-digital-india/story/1/7891.html

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2015-07-11/news/64308981_1_general-agreement-education-sector-service-charges

Deal with it, thats what your candidate stands for.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. I think I get to do what Hillary does, say anything I want no matter how outlandish or incorrect

then tweet a quick 'sorry' and move on to the next outlandishly false statement. Nancy and Ron Reagan was AIDS heroes, 'sorry' what I meant was I've never seen Bernie work on health care 'sorry'.....

[vintx]

33. Good answer! nt

[Baobab]

43. cant people see that stories like that are a desperate attempt to turn up the static

to block out really important issues like the US pushing in trade deal after trade deal- the use of a horrible definition of their scope that amounts to a war on public services thats gutting health care and education now when we really need them, globally?

[Live and Learn]

59. +10,000 nt

[Broward]

25. Most of the criticisms I see are from the left.

These criticisms should not and I hope will not cease.

[AtomicKitten]

35. I agree on the RW sources, but facts are often mischaracterized as lies.

We come to an impasse when we can't agree on the facts.

[hopeforchange2008]

36. What a load. /eom

[NCTraveler]

37. It is a small but aggressive group of them.

Know them by this.

Do you support Paul's "Audit the Fed" legislation and Sanders?

The group being discussed in your op all answer yes to that and left they are not.

Many of Sanders supporters from the left have very valid concerns with Clinton and address them well.

[UglyGreed]

49. If someone posts a Jeff Bezos' Washington Post

article are they considered one of those who you describe???? Bezos is a Libertarian who I believe has donated to Hillary, is Hillary a Libertarian who gets things done????

[Recoverin_Republican]

41. example: right from the GOP Noise Machine

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511470549




check it out: The Republican Noise Machine

Brock, a former right-wing insider and the author of the New York Times bestseller Blinded by the Right, uses his keen understanding of the strategies, tactics, financing, and personalities of the American right wing to demonstrate how the once-fringe phenomenon of right-wing media has all but subsumed the regular media conversation, shaped the national consciousness, and turned American politics sharply to the right.

Brock documents how in the last several decades the GOP built a powerful media machine--newspapers and magazines, think tanks, talk radio networks, op-ed columnists, the FOX News Channel, Christian Right broadcasting, book publishers, and high-traffic internet sites--to sell conservatism to the public and discredit its opponents. This unabashedly biased multibillion-dollar communications empire disregards journalistic ethics and universal standards of fairness and accuracy, manufacturing "news" that is often bought and paid for by a tight network of corporate-backed foundations and old family fortunes. By dissecting the appeal, techniques, and reach of the booming right-wing media market, Brock demonstrates that it is largely based on bigotry, ignorance, and emotional manipulation closely tied to America’s longstanding cultural divisions and the buying power of anti-intellectual traditionalists.

From the disputed 2000 presidential election to the war with Iraq to the political battles of 2004, Brock's penetrating analysis of right-wing media theories and methodology reveals that the Republican Right views the media as an extension of a broader struggle for political power. By tracing the political impact of right-wing media, Brock shows how disproportionate conservative influence in the media is integrally linked to the Republican Right’s current domination of all three branches of government, to the propping up of the Bush administration, and to the inability of Democrats to voice their opposition to this political sea change or to compete on an even playing field.

As only an ex-conservative intimately familiar with the imperatives of the American right wing could, David Brock suggests ways in which concerned Americans can begin to redress the conservative ascendancy and cut through the propagandistic fog. Writing with verve and deep insight, he reaches far beyond typical bromides about media bias to produce an invaluable account of the rise of right-wing media and its political consequences. Promising to be the political book of the year, The Republican Noise Machine will transform the raging yet heretofore unsatisfying debate over the politics of the media for years to come.

[napi21]

42. Of course nobody should be saying Hillary is the worst person on earth! Thats just dumb.

Many of the other arguments are people's real beliefs. Some really believe there's something really bad behind all the investigations. I don't but there simply isn't enough info yet to be able to prove either side. Rather than personal slams, we should all stick to policies and actions. I sure can think of a lot of those against all the pubbies,

[demwing]

46. "Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have shown a lot of professionalism towards each other" = FALSE

You're only 1/2 right.

Bernie's been a pro. Hillary lies.

[merrily]

52. The OP article is a load of baloney, slathered with Bernie Butter bs. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

This business about how awful Bernie's supportesr are is nonsense, transparently orchestrated, top down, by the Clinton campaign with the cooperation of media. The same thing was done by the Clintons and their media minions to supporters of Obama in 2008.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=0
(article by Krugman about allegedy bad supporters of Obama, posted on a thread about an article by Krugman about allegedly bad supporters of Sanders http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=104509)
A perfect example of "same shet, different day."


IGNORANT Bernie Bros must END their name calling!!!
http://jackpineradicals.org/showthread.php?3326-IGNORANT-Bernie-Bros-must-END-their-name-calling!!!&highlight=Boston+Globe (post by Manny Goldstein, formerly known here as MannyGoldstein).

Bernie Supporters are the worst human beings in the USA, if not the world. STOP IT.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280104497 (merrily post)

Bernie Butter - the low, low, low-priced spread. I won't buy it. I wouldn't even accept it free.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280142680 (merrily post)

[EffieBlack]

55. That you! n/t

[ladyVet]

56. BUZZZZZ! Wrong answer.

I'd guess about 90% of the pro-Sanders posts are baseless attacks on HRC, often using innuendo without actually making a formal argument which would invite debunking or a demand for evidence.

[Cosmocat]

58. I have a couple dozen posts since summer here

about this, and finally caved to the definition of insanity.

I am voting Bernie, and he has been a "gentleman" the whole campaign.

But, his supporters here have been full blown repubilcan like for going on a year now.

I suppose that comes with the kind of virulent energy needed to get someone elected in a republican kind of way.

But, 08 was NOTHING like this.

BHO supporters didn't have this nasty little brother type complex, and were much more focused on a positive message.

[Bill USA]

60. Here's a good one!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511644407

[Bill USA]

61. here's a good example of disinformation, either from the RW or created by Sanders fans

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511745055

[Bill USA]

62. a perfect example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511744627

[Bill USA]

63. they just keep on keepin' on ... Repugnants or Bernie fans -- no difference

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1794977

[Bill USA]

64. these Republicans "for" Bernie love chanting on and on about debunked hysterias

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1898037

[link:http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/02/01/experts-push-back-against-right-wing-media-clai/208297|
Experts Push Back Against Right-Wing Media Claim Clinton Emails Violated Federal Law]