Tonight is the night I leave the Democratic Party and Democratic Underground

[Fearless]

It no longer represents the values of FDR. It no longer represents the average person. It no longer represents people at all. We reap what we sow. And I will not sow for corporate hacks. Remember this moment though, because we had a chance to fix everything. And we CHOSE not to. We as a nation have CHOSEN to embrace corporate slavery.

My original screen name was nothingtoofear, changed prior to DU2 to fearless, and I have posted here religiously for a decade. I am an FDR, big government, pro-education, pro-choice, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, feminist, LGBT, atheist, small d democrat and I am done giving corporate shills time in my day.

So to all of those over the the Hillary group, I hope you WIN. I hope you get to reap what you've sown. And I hope that at some point somewhere down the line the negativity and lies you've endorsed destroys this country. Only, if only to wake America up so that a real democratic candidate can rise from the ashes and fix this nation. Until then, I will spend my time sticking true to small d FDR democratic values and working on the causes detailed above. And I will do so away from this place. It is a waste of time.

You'll find in the coming years that Republicans have won. They won because they destroyed our education system. People don't think critically about issues. They can't think critically when all they've been trained to do is pass standardized multiple choice tests. Our country will fade from prominence not because of foreign threat, disease, or natural disasters, but by educational cannibalism whereby the intelligent and the dreamers are ridiculed for daring to think of better times. You don't believe me? Tell the average person today that in 1960 you could pay for college with a summer job. Tell the average person that banks used to pay you money to maintain accounts with them. Tell the average person that a 401(k) was designed to lower your income tax bracket and not as a retirement plan as it is not an effective investment. The the average person that abortion was once completely legal and easily accessible. Tell them that you could walk right onto a plane without being x-rayed. Tell them that teaching was considered an honorable profession undertaken by the most intelligent people.

The fact of the matter is we could have universal health care if we tried. It is feasible.

We could lower violent crime and end the drug war. It is feasible.

We could raise the standard of living of every American to the highest in the world. It is feasible.

We could provide free public education to everyone for their entire educative lives. It is feasible.

We could overturn Citizen's United and install a public campaign finance system. It is feasible.

We could do all of these things and more. But we won't. Somewhere along the way we've been conditioned to think that we aren't worthy of these things. We've been taught and we have accepted the idea that we as individual people are not worthy of being equal to every other person in this world. We did this to ourselves and we continue to hurt ourselves today.

I leave here with two bits of advice, given by two people far more eloquent than I am.

Take note of those who grave dance below. Take note of how quickly this post is hidden or locked. Take note of where your loyalties must stand in the coming months to stick around here. I'll get while the getting is good and leave on my terms. Will I return? Doubtful. The battles we need to win must be fought on other fields than this and by smarter people than a majority of the loudest shouters here.

I will be spending my time with my cats, pursuing a good man for a husband, and writing.

Welcome to the Idiocracy.

And good luck to you all.



-Fearless

PS: To whomever you are, the person that gave me my first DU star on the night Teddy Kennedy died, thank you.

[Zorro]

1. Thanks for leaving

[enid602]

31. fun

It's been a fun two weeks.

[Lizzie Poppet]

76. You should say that to your jury: 4-3 leave. (nm)

[Zorro]

103. OK. Thanks jury for leaving my comment alone.

[Zorro]

111. Nothing jerkish about it

The OP, on the other hand, is a different story.

[JDPriestly]

144. When Hillary Clinton loses in November, remember this moment!

[Plucketeer]

160. Wrong

The Establishment came crashing in. Long live the liar!

[William769]

169. Wasn't the "establishment", it was the voters. Just saying. nt

[Plucketeer]

186. That establishment

TOLD the voters what they wanted them to know - while not even mentioning Hillary's unmentionables. We won't even talk about the DNC's finger on the scales of influence.

[BainsBane]

199. The DNC "fingers on the scales of influence"

The flat broke DNC? Compared to the huge amount of money more than Clinton that Bernie spent on ads? And all the millions in dark money and super pac spending attacking Clinton and promoting Sanders? But DWS rigged the whole thing all on her lonesome.
He had tons of money, outspent her, had lots of assistance from outside groups, but still couldn't win.

People voted for the candidate they wanted. They have a right to do that. I'm sorry you find that so difficult to accept that American citizens who disagree with you are fit to exercise their democratic rights.

[rhett o rick]

438. The power of the Ruling Class is behind her and they can afford propaganda and get

free propaganda from the Corp-Media. It's sad to see Democrats embrace Citizens United and the Big Money influence of the billionaires, the bias of the Corp-Media, and the shenanigans of a biased corrupt DNC. We are fighting to improve the lives of the 99% while Clinton is fighting to keep the huge profits for her friends.

[shadowandblossom]

203. I wasn't hoodwinked.

I just disagree with you. Strongly.

[CSStrowbridge]

319. Reality

I'm starting to think Sanders more hardcore supporters don't know what reality is.

[pinebox]

381. The same can be said for Hillary supporters

Ignoring lots of reality when it comes to her record

[Bassomar]

430. that is what I thought of hillary supporters this whole time n/t

[LibDemAlways]

242. She can't win without Bernie's supporters, Independents,

and crossover Republicans. The Hillary supporters here have no clue how much their candidate is hated out in the real world. There are voters who would crawl across broken glass on bare hands and knees for the opportunity to vote against her. There are legions of young Bernie supporters who will say, "Fuck politics. It's all corrupt," and will sit on their hands come November. There are seniors like me (age 63) who are beyond cynical and thoroughly disgusted watching a parade of greedy corporate owned hucksters of both parties (actually two sides of the same coin) line their pockets at our expense.

So the Democratic Party establishment can go ahead and nominate their corporate owned candidate with the full knowledge that given the choice between a Republican and a DINO, voters will go with the real thing every time.

[urbuddha]

272. Only Bernie for me. Hillary will never get my vote.

I'll always vote against Hillary Clinton.

[avebury]

297. I am not Clinton's biggest fan but I would vote for her if

either Trump or Cruz is the Democratic nominee. Trump is bat shit crazy and Cruz is extremely dangerous. Cruz is capable of not only tanking the US but the world economy as well. The stakes are far to great to not vote in November just because Clinton will most likely be the Democratic candidate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

327. I agree with you... though not saying much (sadly).

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[MynameisBlarney]

341. Same here.

Better Clinton than any of those GOTP morons.

Hillary is many things, a lot of which I don't care for. But she not a fascist or a dominionist and she won't be rounding up refugees and immigrants to ship them back to a hellish place we helped create.

[passiveporcupine]

434. She won't round them up and ship them back?

She answered like an attorney, and confused a lot of people.

RAMOS: And can you promise that you won’t deport immigrants who don’t have a criminal record?

CLINTON: Here’s what I can promise, Jorge; I can promise that I will do everything possible to provide due process.

RAMOS: But will you deport children?

CLINTON: Let me say this. I would give every person, but particularly children, due process to have their story told. And a lot of children will, of course, have very legitimate stories under our law to be able to stay.

Ramos went at it one more time. “But again, yes or no, can you promise tonight that you won’t deport children who are already here?” Clinton said, finally, “I will not deport children. I will not deport children.” But she made sure to reiterate that asylum seekers, who are allowed to come to the United States but must petition an immigration judge to stay in the United States and be granted humanitarian relief, are subject to their own legal process.

http://www.thenation.com/article/clinton-and-sanders-promised-not-to-deport-child-migrants-should-we-cheer/

So basically, yes, she will deport the refugee children seeking asylum here, unless they can somehow be granted humanitarian relief, and there is no guarantee of that.

[MynameisBlarney]

437. ooooh....yeeesh.

Thanks.
I didn't know she'd said that.

[serbbral]

346. RE:I am not Clinton's biggest fan but I would vote for her if

I agree Avebury. I, too am not a Hillary fan, but I'd rather see a Dem have it than Trump or Cruz. We do not know what crazy Donald will do or say. Sometimes I wish he WOULD be President so some of his crazy supporters can see who they voted for. If Bernie fans (and I voted for him) want to sit at home come November and Trump becomes President, they will have no one to blame but themselves. There IS too much at stake. I am with you.

[Dr Rise]

326. Don't vote for Drumph, though ....

[serbbral]

352. RE: Don't vote for Drumph, though ....

@Dr. Rise, actually sitting at home in November IS voting for Trump.

[peacebird]

330. Only Bernie for me. I will NEVER vote for Hillary. Too many lies. Too little integrity.

[pinebox]

382. +1

[PonyUp]

439. +2. I'll vote for peace. nt

[redstateblues]

336. You will be missed

[Sienna86]

298. Agreed.

I won't vote for a lesser of two "evils" this time. There are too many serious issues. If Sanders is not the candidate, and I still believe he may be, I will write in his name.

[redstateblues]

337. You will be missed

[Nitram]

316. And yesterday you were sure Sanders would win.

Perhaps you don't have a monopoly on reality. Perhaps things are more complicated than you think. But anyone who could feel smug about Trump winning the presidency because Bernie supporters wouldn't vote for the democratic nominee is deluded.

[CSStrowbridge]

320. Google is your friend.

"She can't win without Bernie's supporters, Independents..."

Romney beat Obama with Independents in 2012 and lost.
Kerry beat Bush with Independents in 2004 and lost.

"...and crossover Republicans."

Like Republican women who are turned off by Trump?

[MADem]

354. She's so hated she beat Sanders like a dust-filled rug five times yesterday...?

Usually, the one who is "hated" is the one who gets the LEAST, not the MOST, votes.

The sour grapes don't change that.

[jello]

427. 1968 all over again

First of all, Hillary will not win in the fall...she doesn't bring out the vote nor do independents vote for her. For those who are old enough to remember 1968...all of us young'uns, who weren't allowed to vote until we were 21, campaigned and worked for either Eugene McCarthy or Bobby Kennedy...and who actually got the nomination (chosen and engineered by the Dem Party)...LBJ's vp HHH. As I said, we couldn't vote yet, but lots of older young'uns who could stayed away (tune in, turn on, drop out) and we got RICHARD NIXON. And, this year, we will get the Donald or some other Republican just as scarey. Bernie is the only authentic candidate out there who is not owned by corporate America. And, btw, if you haven't read Robert Reich's post about NYT and Bernie be sure you do!
Brace yourselves, the next 4 years aren't going to be pretty.

[billhicks76]

240. Wow

You're blind

[bahrbearian]

333. Thanks for leaving.

[merrily]

351. Badly, sadly, mistaken on both counts.

[Hissyspit]

115. You say that like it's a good thing.

Says a lot.

[gcomeau]

413. To a Clinton supporter, one less progressive is obviously a good thing.

[iAZZZo]

121. "Thanks for leaving". you're welcome!

where is democratic 'base'?
[br /]
"Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical Lows"
[br /]
Politics January 11, 2016
[center][/center]
http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx?g_source=independents%202015&g_medium=search&g_campaign=tiles

[maindawg]

342. This is why

I see a 4 way race as both mainstream parties melt down. But when it comes down that, the electorate will be so fractured that a 5 the candidate like Green party could even win. That would be awesome. Even now, I am very certain HRC will never be president. Too many people hate her with burning passion. She is divisive by nature and not very bright. She deleted 30,000 emails to cover up her criminal activities selling influence. People have had it with the Bush and Clinton crime families. There is going to be a revolution alright. It's just beginning. So enjoy today HRC , the roads about to get bumpy.

[CBGLuthier]

280. God bless the double down

One shitty comment is never enough. Oh well as DU slowly turns into an echo chamber populated by a mutual ass-kissing society I hope people like you enjoy the living fuck out of it.

Thanks for guaranteeing us four years of yet another shitty republican president because your candidate will not win.

[Le Taz Hot]

317. What a nasty fucking comment.

[merrily]

350. Never noticed you before, but a mean-spirited comment as Reply#1 speaks volumes.

[fasttense]

412. That's an awful thing to say.

Why did you even need to post such a rude comment?

[SidDithers]

2. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Hissyspit]

189. Nothing to say of any value at all?

Typical.

[Ron Green]

229. Why start now? n/t

[ericson00]

3. the real world of politicians instead of magicians wishes

that the door doesn't hit your behind on the way out

[PatrynXX]

93. wow gotta love all the sick anti democrats in this room

you just proved him her right good one.

alas clearly Bernies in it to win. He's nowhere near out . He kicked some serious ass tonight.. and up in Missouri omg. did not see that comming. Country still has to vote first however. We don't live in a dictatorship yet.

[AllyCat]

135. You've understood nothing of what the OP has said.

We CAN have all those things. Other countries do. But we have a corporate-run government and have chosen to let someone else run it to our detriment.

Grave dancing noted.

[certainot]

332. we 've chosen to ignore more than $4BIL$/ year in RW radio propaganda

every year for 25 years, since reagan killed the fairness doctrine.

now we get trump and the polling companies still aren't polling for it!!!!

and the diary writer might even go to one of these 90 universities supporting more than 1/4 of the talk radio monopoly of 1200 coordinated radio stations now making excuses for trump and cruz. our own universities are largely responsible for propping it up, helping it sell the racism, war, global warming denial, sexism, and so on- all the crap the unicorn herding diarist decries.

we have this govt because the left ignored and still ignores 1200 coordinated radio stations- a classic CIA style PSYOPS. now the talk radio gods have revolted against their establishment masters.

that's why it's like this, and the unicorn-herding diarist will give up on america and wish for 4 more years of global warming denial for the kids in my family while the left sticks their fingers in their ears to avoid listening to the mean nasty lying hatemongers on the radio, continuing the biggest mistake in political history.

[AllyCat]

344. We'll get that with anything other than the unicorn herder.

More wars, more corporate rule, more global warming. The RW radio people have their mics but the DLC Third Way is quieter about how they ruin the middle class.

[certainot]

347. youdon't hink that $4BIL/year for 25 years hasn't

been enabling and pushing dems right?

bernie talks about a few billion over 8 years spent by wall st and they have 4 bil+ a year for FREE working for them

if the left wants to push dems left they have to stop fucking around with symptoms and stop ignoring the root of the matter

[certainot]

348. you don't think that $4BIL/year for 25 years hasn't

been enabling and pushing dems right?

bernie talks about a few billion over 8 years spent by wall st and they have 4 bil+ a year for FREE working for them

if the left wants to push dems left they have to stop fucking around with symptoms and stop ignoring the root of the matter

until then the unicorn herding just suppresses votes

[KPN]

179. On a high horse are you?

It ain't over yet man. Bernie may not win the nom, but he's opened enough eyes to spell the eventual end of 3rd Way BS. Gloat while you can.

[senz]

271. Spoken like a Hill supporter.

[classykaren]

331. Thank you senz

[Scootaloo]

4. Take a deep breath. it's not over yet.

even tonight isn't over yet. Don't let the ugliness of the hollowed-out people get to you. Go kick your feet up, read a book, and think about tomorrow.

[riversedge]

15. Hillary clinton is ahead in Cook Cty:-_--WAY AHEAD

[Scootaloo]

19. Cool for her

Maybe you meant to reply to someone else?

[Kittycat]

245. I don't think you get it. We don't care.

She's done to us. Does that make sense to you yet?

[shadowandblossom]

205. hollowed out?

I'm not "hollowed out," I simply disagree with you.

[Scootaloo]

260. And the things we disagree on are exactly why I call you hollowed-out

Do you have any concept of why people support bernie?

[senz]

273. They don't.

They don't know, and they don't care.

They could give a shit what happens to the American people, to people around the world, and to the planet itself. None of that matters to them. It might not even be real for them.

"Hollowed out" is a polite way of putting it.

I think it's unhealthy for us to focus too much on them; it's like staring into a side show. They exist, they are what they are, but we don't have to look at them. We should look beyond them, around them, over them, and continue in our chosen direction.

Hope I'm making sense -- quite tired but too wound up to sleep.

I appreciate your insights.

[shadowandblossom]

343. Disagreeing with you on candidates means that a person is "hollowed out."

Scootaloo, I don't want to have a discussion with someone who has that kind of attitude toward me, me being a total stranger who you know nothing about. Peace.

[Scootaloo]

405. It's not coke vs. pepsi, you know

Maybe you don't understand that this isn't a decision between fashion accessories. Your support for clinton actually tells me a lot about you.

[shadowandblossom]

407. "Maybe you don't understand that this isn't a decision between fashion accessories." Wow.

Goodbye.

[Scootaloo]

409. It's not so trivial as that. Oh well. You go have fun voting like it's American Idol.

[Wednesdays]

237. Amen.

nt

[wyldwolf]

5. bye

[samplegirl]

6. See ya!!!

Don't need ya!!!

[senz]

274. Maybe you should read your own sig line.

[liberalnarb]

361. When the rethugs win, you'll regret telling potential voters

"dont need ya"

[liberalnarb]

363. Oh by the way

On Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:29 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

See ya!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1500225

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Plain rude, hurtful and insensitive. Hypocritical too considering his/her sig line.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:38 AM, and voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Opinion. Rudeness of this nature has become the norm here at DU. It's not something you can "alert out" of the system. It's driven by the entitlement attitude that exists among many who believe they are witnesses to inevitability. This attitude is a microcosm of the issues we will face in November and indicative of why the inevitable will struggle being a unifier. Leave it because it's not worth hiding.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: When republicans win the WH, you should remember how you told democratic voters they weren't needed.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Her sigline:
"The desire to improve ourselves for the sake of doing good to others is truly moral. The highest moral law is that we should unremittingly work for the good of mankind."

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yikes at the GD : P forum, which I trashed long ago. And this post gets alerted? Alert the whole damn forum.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.

[kgnu_fan]

7. We love you and keep on moving...we will be there

[Luciferous]

8. K&R

[RiverLover]

9. Me too, Fearless.

You're not walking away alone!

Thanks for an excellent post.

Best to you~

[MissDeeds]

126. Same here

This is not my party anymore.

[AtomicKitten]

253. Nor mine.

[Duval]

421. Not mine, either.

I have unsubscribed to emails from: Hillary, Pelosi, and the DNC. I've had it.

[dana_b]

10. Maybe just hang with us in the Bernie group??

I understand if you can't though. If Bernie doesn't hang on throughout the next month or two, I'll be doing the same.

[uppityperson]

124. I'd Ike to hang there but got banned for asking to not use nasty language to complain about

nasty language. My support, phone banking, donations, caucusing, don't count. Only my call for civility.

[jcgoldie]

11. And the oscar goes to...

so very dramatic.

[Scootaloo]

30. Waited four years just to say that?

[jcgoldie]

36. Nope just thought of it on the spot

but thanks for your question.

[AllyCat]

138. Grave dancer noted

[NCTraveler]

12. Stay well and keep fighting.

We will continue the good fight.

[zappaman]

13. ok. n/t

[GusBob]

14. Y'all come back now ya hear?

[obamanut2012]

16. lolz k&r

[DURHAM D]

180. lol

oh dear, oh dear...who is left to rig the vote for LGBT hosts by not counting the women?

[liberalnarb]

349. The lies have no boundaries do they?

[LondonReign2]

395. The lies are what I like most about the Hillary supporters. Perfect reflection

of their candidate.

[jello]

428. Karl Rove wannabees

Yes, Hillary and Bill must have attended one of Rove's training sessions...plant lies and innuendo far away from you, yet you engineer it from afar, keep your hands clean, and dirty work is done by others. I love when they lie or create set-ups like the religious question at end of debate in Flint...no, they have nothing to do with any of that, sure, and I have a bridge to sell you.

[noretreatnosurrender]

17. Live Up to YOUR NAME

I'm living up to mine.

No Retreat No Surrender.

We always knew it would be a tough slog but that once we got past the 15th we would be winning. Michigan was a bonus. We didn't expect Michigan. What's happening tonight we did expect. If we win any of the states tonight it will be a bonus just like Michigan.

[Scootaloo]

21. +1

[mythology]

48. I just wanted to say that I chuckle everytime I see the gif in your signature

It's great, and hopefully whoever wins the nomination makes that come true.

[Scootaloo]

51. Politics could damn well use more science!

...Oh you meant...!

[yuiyoshida]

117. i love that sig gif..

that's so funny

[Silver_Witch]

177. +1

Thank you for reminding me of that .

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. I get it, I truly do.

The Machine is crushing us under it's wheels. I believe in an FDR/Bobby Kennedy America and I will keep fighting for it. And I know that it will NEVER come from within the Democratic Party because they are part and parcel of the Machine now.

Godspeed and see you at the barricades.

[Wednesdays]

20. Bye!

[Scootaloo]

24. Wow, you came all the way out of 2002 just for this poster!

He ought to be flattered

[bunnies]

46. Someone forgot to change their socks. Nt

[Hav]

72. I think you are mixing up registration date with last activity

All these comments about the years in this thread insinuating that this was their last activity when it was the day they registered here instead.

[Wednesdays]

232. Yup.

I didn't just post nine thousand responses in 2003 and then walk away.
Having said that, I did have a 2-year hiatus that ended a few weeks ago. But before and since, I've been a steady contributor to threads on this site.

[msanthrope]

391. Welcome back. You were missed. nt

[AllyCat]

139. Grave dancer

[Wednesdays]

235. If you think that I find the OP's exodus something to cheer about

Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2016, 01:05 AM - Edit history (1)

then you are mistaken.

[muriel_volestrangler]

281. That is not "grave dancing"; the thread starter has decided to take their ball home

They've decided it's not worth working with the Democratic Party to stop Trump. A misguided decision, because every vote against Trump will help, but their own choice, nevertheless.

Do you think saying "grave dancer" to people gets you anywhere?

[AllyCat]

289. It is getting harder and harder to find anything democratic to work with

More war, less help for the poor and middle class, stagnant wages, more help for corporations and banks. More of the same.

[MissDeeds]

149. Right back atcha!

Bye!

[Onlooker]

22. Think about it a little more

The political revolution shouldn't end with a whimper. Even if Bernie doesn't have a chance of winning (and that's not true), he will stay in the race, because he has a chance of influencing and shaping the political landscape. FDR did not emerge out of a vaccum. He was a product not only of desperate times, but of social movements made up of laborers and immigrants. If Bernie does nothing else, he has laid the groundwork for an important social movement. The worst thing that could happen is for people to back out just because he doesn't win the Democratic nomination. Give it a few days, but I hope you come back, not as a Hillary supporter, but as someone who wants to see Bernie's political revolution continue to shape the Democratic party.

[redkwamya]

65. I'l respect all of the revolutionaries that keep going regardless of November

Most revolutions don't start by winning an election and most don't end by losing one.

[liberal from boston]

110. Bernie

Thank you Onlooker. You so eloquently put my thoughts into words. Bernie has stated that he in this to the Philadelphia convention. Going to Sanders website to donate. Bernie does not need the DNC which has revealed that it is controlled by corporate puppets. Bernie's message has resonated with Americans & will continue. Bernie Strong.

[JDPriestly]

154. My husband and I are sending another donation to Bernie tonight.

If Hillary wins the nomination, the real fight is still ahead.

And that fight is saving Social Security, expanding Medical care for all citizens as a right, debt-free post-secondary education and training, paid family leave, reform of our justice system and most important, saving our environment.

Immigration reform is really important too, but if Bernie is not the Democratic candidate, I have little hope for that. Hillary will not need to focus on immigration reform, and it probably won't be her priority because she will probably be looking for a war to fight.

If Trump is the president, I wish immigrants good luck. If Hillary is the president, she won't be able to do the things for immigrants that need to be done. She won't dare, and won't need to make that a priority. Morality does not motivate Hillary the way it does Bernie.

If elected, Bernie will do everything possible for immigrants no matter what simply because it is the moral thing to do.

Bernie is the only candidate who truly believes in human rights.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

373. I'm a immigrant.

I don't need luck. I'm here legally. I had to under-go back ground checks, medical exams, blood tests, X-rays and proof I could support myself.

I had to carry my chest X-rays on the plane as proof I wasn't bringing TB into the US.

I have distain for criminals.

[passiveporcupine]

188. Maybe there is another place for Bernie's revolution

Instead of a place that has a TOS of insiders supporting the establishment.

Maybe it's time to find a new home for the revolution!

And because we have the majority here, it should not be hard to start a new group.

I don't have the knowledge to do this, but there are people here who do.

[silenttigersong]

277. Yes someone please start one

I would love it I learn so much from here(Bernie supporters).

[pinebox]

385. We have one :)

http://jackpineradicals.org/content.php along with Twitter. That is "FOB Revolution".

[pinebox]

384. We have one

It's on Twitter and also at http://jackpineradicals.org/content.php

[jello]

429. Yes, a Bernie Revolution site is what we need

[beaglelover]

23. Buh Bye!

[Scootaloo]

27. And there's one from 2008! Fearless is bringing 'em out of the woodwork!

[AllyCat]

142. Absolutely no understanding.

Thanks to the Third Way!

[passiveporcupine]

200. Voter suppression at it's best!

[Buzz cook]

25. Grow a pair

If this is an example of your commitment to your principles...

[Scootaloo]

28. 2007... damn, it's all old school up in here

[Demit]

201. While you're checking profiles, read down a little further.

These people you are being snide about have numerous posts in the last 90 days.

[Scootaloo]

210. And teeny tiny post counts

Whence the very sudden flourish of activity, I wonder?

[RiverLover]

35. She is leaving because of her principles. The Democratic Party lost its FDR principles.

Hillary is the embodiment of everything wrong with the party now. Purchased like no other, has done horrendous things to other nations as SoS, even the money to help rebuild after 9/11 benefited Goldman Sachs. She is a republican DINO.

Staying with this party now would be abandoning principles.

[dana_b]

54. exactly

she's got her head on straight.

[Buzz cook]

77. Hilllary is not the party. People don't seem to realize that.

Bernie supporters will still have a powerful voice at the caucuses and conventions leading up to and including the national convention.

They can, if they don't give up now, still make a huge difference.

[PatrynXX]

107. Yep as I said I'm in it for the long haul

you can call us names you can beat us , heck kill us but we aren't going to to do what you hillary people say we are to do. (yes I lifted that from Biko) or inspired by.

but still applies. because I've had more namecalling BS from Hillary bullies than I ever had from the Tea Party

[Buzz cook]

140. That's because its family

And the Te Party ain't. Disagreement in a family are always hotter and louder.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

195. I'm not sure I can ever go back to kumbaya on this site

Too many people I used to like or have some respect for have turned out to be complete assholes. They really exposed their true selves and I find it sickening. I'll hang out for the Bernie camaraderie, as long as Bernie is still in it, but if Hillary wins, I'll have to leave. Even though 80% of the people on this site, as seen in numerous DU polls, are Bernie supporters, the Hillary supporters make this place a living hell.

I hope Skinner isn't too disappointed when he loses over half his forum, but I guess he's for Hillary too, so maybe he doesn't care.

[Buzz cook]

209. It was never kubaya

We went through this same thing in 2008. Close to the same thing in 2004 and in 2000.

I would hate to think of this or any other liberal would be in agreement on a host of issues.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

230. True. But in between primary seasons things are much better.

We had a good 7 years of relative peace here until this primary season. I remember 2008 very well, but I don't remember the Hillary people being THIS UGLY.

[shadowandblossom]

218. Beat us? Kill us? This is very dramatic and unrealistic.

Hey there, we do have some disagreements, but the way you're talking seems pretty disconnected from reality.

[jpb33]

148. The issue

The issue with this argument is the Clinton's, DWS, they do not reward for being disloyal. All those who opposed them during this election will be punished. They will be shunned and thrown out in the cold. Bernie's ideas will be forgotten and he will be ignored. The most progressives will get is a token cabinet position. Not one that matters, like SOT, but somewhere that they can't make too much noise. And even then they will have a muzzle kept on them nice and tight.

As for Hillary's supporters signing their own death warrant by supporting Hillary since she will only revert back to a republican if she wins the election. So when she fails and betrays all of her promises (that Bernie supporters know are lies) they will not take responsibility. They will just blame republicans, not themselves.

[Buzz cook]

219. The problem with your posistion

Is you picture yourself as a helpless pawn whose only power is to reflect the glory of some great man.

I'd like to point out that George W Bush was going to destroy social security as we know it. And plain ordinary people stopped that from happening.
The people acting as a group can make good things happen and stop bad things.

Heck even individuals can effect change. One blogger started the movement that forced Trent Lott to resign.








l

[RiverLover]

305. Bill Clinton tried to cut & privatize Social Security too.

That's the problem.

The Clintons are republican, no matter what they call themselves. You're being conned.

[Buzz cook]

392. A has Obama

He's tried repeatedly to make a "gramd bargain". We're lucky the republicans are anti any agreements with Obama or he might have given away the store.

The difference is with Clinton there is no group that will defend that action as eleventy level chess.

[passiveporcupine]

193. We are not giving up.

We are just questioning the wisdom of staying in a place that is in the tank for Hillary.

[Buzz cook]

221. Except that

The majority of members are Bernie supporters.

[Adrahil]

164. FDR principles?

You mean like when he interred American citizens of Japanese descent?

Or deported Ameircans of Mexican descent?

When he perpetuated segregation?

Let's not construct a false narrative of our florious past.

Wanna make a difference? Work for your state and Congressional candidates. Hard to make changes when we don't control the statehouses ans Congress.

[Eko]

182. Ha!

I love it when people revert to single minded slogans and someone calls them out on it, too funny. Tired of hearing about the "FDR Democrat" crap, why would I want to be something from the past?

[Buzz cook]

225. Because FDR pissed the conservatives off and

rendered them impotent. That's a skill we could use.

The ideological purity stuff is bull shit.

[Eko]

234. Seems like

trump fits that bill also lol. There were things from that time that were good and bad. I am a progressive and that means to move forward not backwards, not to ideologue a point in time as a political slogan instead of realizing the now time is completely different and requires a whole different way of thinking and not realizing that previous time had its own set of fuckups. Funny how you see that so often on both sides. And yes, it is bullshit.

[johnlucas]

299. EXACTLY! UNDERGROUND over DEMOCRATIC

In this election the DEMOCRATIC boosters need to take a back seat.
The UNDERGROUND is talking right now.

You ain't gonna win without us.
This party is going in the wrong direction.
It needs an overhaul & Bernie Sanders will provide that overhaul.
An overhaul that makes this party nigh-undefeatable for the next coming decades.

And you're gonna throw that all away for more Third Way WEAKNESS???
PRINCIPLES over PARTY.
UNDERGROUND over DEMOCRATIC.

Either it changes or it dies in 2016.
The UNDERGROUND is speaking & you BETTER listen.

EXACTLY right RiverLover.
I'm not going for the Republican Boogeyman routine this time around.
Never again.

John Lucas

[pinebox]

386. Did you grow a pair when you left in 2007?

Please tell us more.

[LostOne4Ever]

26. I haven't been here too long but I have always found you a great poster

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]DU is a poorer place without you.

Good Luck to you[/font]

[SammyWinstonJack]

282. +1000000

[RKP5637]

302. K&R!!! n/t

[bkkyosemite]

29. Hillary supporters it's a night for you to be happy but some of you are

showing your true colors and they are pretty ugly towards those who care for what Bernie stands for and Hillary does not.

[Nedsdag]

37. They're sore winners.

How true!

[grossproffit]

50. Clinton and her supporters have been treated like shit on this forum.

Some here are very selective readers. FFS!

[JesterCS]

88. Bernie too, it's not one-sided. N/t

[redstateblues]

340. The difference being that BSS outnumber HRC supporters

90%-10% here on DU

[gcomeau]

415. It's DU and you're boosting for the right over the left. Soooo...

[passiveporcupine]

204. As have Bernie and his supporters.

So, it's an all out war with the winner being the republicans? Is that really what you want?

[Codeine]

208. Please. This place is 24/7 Hillary Hatefest.

It's like Freerepublic with hipster glasses these days.

[Kittycat]

246. And somehow you thought that would help your third way

Corporate sell out candidate? Tell me, which country do you hope she bombs first?

[giftedgirl77]

286. Jajaja, it's a real live BernieBro.

[rtracey]

318. True colors?

True colors are when the Sanders supporters say if Bernie dosen't win, I will write in or stay home instead of supporting the party. That shows true colors.... you are DINOs

[PonyUp]

442. If I was a DINO I would be voting for Hillary. nt

[grossproffit]

32. It's going to be a long night.

[Surya Gayatri]

33. Adieu, O monde cruel.....

[snagglepuss]

34. "So to all of those over the the Hillary group, I hope you WIN.I hope you get to reap

what you've sown."


Yep.

[vdogg]

38. Bye Felicia!

[Number23]

213. !!!

Thread winner.

[joshcryer]

287. Heh

I've seen people get hidden for that. Brave.

[vdogg]

291. Don't care anymore.

I'm tired of this. They've shit on us for months now yet suddenly want to play the victim. Not having it.

[joshcryer]

292. No worries from me.

I've seen far far worse. I actually thought it was funny. Just thought I'd say I saw people get hidden for saying literally those two words. It's an iconic quote in comedy. I laugh every time I see it (usually in GBCW posts where DUers quit the site in a dramatic fashion).

[Rosa Luxemburg]

39. but the Dem primary is not over yet

[gcomeau]

159. Yes, the people supporting the only progressive in the race...

...are "Republican water carriers"

The stupid burns.

[Zorro]

166. Indeed

The stupid berns.

[gcomeau]

170. Oh you can pun, you're a genius!

That completely backs up your utterly moronic claim and makes it credible!

[Zorro]

185. Why thank you

I hear there's a website where Republican water carriers are congregating these days. Jackshitradicals or something.

Might want to check it out.

[demwing]

423. Jackshit? what a coincidence!

That's exactly how much shit I give about corrupt liars that run for President, or the tired opinions of those who support them.

[TheProgressive]

41. I'm waiting till the end...

But, if this continues, yes, I totally agree with you.

[Barack_America]

42. WE still can. The Democratic Party just can't.

It will be very interesting to see what comes of this.

[basselope]

43. Plz stay until Bernie leaves and then I assure you.. many will walk out right along side you!

[dana_b]

68. yes, when he goes

there will probably be a mass exodus from here and they can be as happy as Hillary in a pile of money!!

[Gorgatron]

113. Lol, that have me a nice laugh, and image in my mind

[basselope]

123. LMAO! +1

[Hokie]

44. You post reeks of sore loser and short sighted thinking

Anyone who has been around this stuff for a long time knows that the battle transcends any single candidate. You should celebrate that a candidate like Bernie Sanders did as well as he did and will continue to do. If this comes down to Hillary and the fascist Trump we all need to work our butts off for Clinton. If you want to slink away with your tail between your legs then be my guest. Some of us will stick around and work for what's right.

[BlueMTexpat]

71. Good post! eom

[marions ghost]

155. I will have already worked my butt off for Bernie

--can't do that for Hillary. Too much water over the dam. But I'm sure lots will come out to work for her, so it won't matter.

[Nailzberg]

220. Well said.

[SammyWinstonJack]

283. Hillary ain't right.....or perhaps she is....

At any rate, it ain't over til it's over and if Bernie isn't giving up, then neither am I.

[Surya Gayatri]

312. ^^^This!^^^

[gcomeau]

420. Nope.

If this comes down to Hillary and the fascist Trump we all need to work our butts off for Clinton

Enough is enough. The Democratic party cannot make excuses for it's never ending slide to the right by constantly pointing at the GOPs never ending slide to the more right and expecting us to just come along for the ride election after election after election.


We don't have to do that this year. We have a viable real progressive. And if the party makes a decision to go right ANYWAY then fuck them. They get no support from me if Clinton gets names the nominee at the convention. Zero. I will not be further complicit in the never ending corruption of the party and then look back in 20 or 30 years wondering how the Democratic party of then became the Republican party of today the way the Democratic party of today has become damn near the Republican party of 30 years ago.

We know how it's happening. One compromised "just a little to the right is ok" election at a time.

[ezgoingrl]

45. I know how you're feeling.

And in spite of these a-holes, I hope you stick around.

[JonathanRackham]

47. A classy post.

Best wishes.

[elmac]

63. Best wishes to you

I'm here until July or until I get banned, what ever comes first.

[RoccoR5955]

49. Stick around. It ain't over till it's over!

There is STILL a long way to go.
Clinton is NOT the winner yet.

[snowy owl]

60. You bring a smile to my lips. I hope it isn't...

and I hope Bernie keeps going. It will be the only way to keep Hillary talking like a true American and a progressive. I think she'll revert to status quo at her first opportunity. I fear that is why Trump may win. And me, I will probably go back to voting my values, Jill Stein or whoever is the nominee of the Green Party. Maybe we should start a Green Underground?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

52. So to recap: You want to destroy America .... to save it

[bettyellen]

73. Yeah, and he isn't the only one. Some have much less to lose.

[Kittycat]

248. Some might say it's already in the hands of those with that intent

Our goal is to upend that. But hey, Goldman Sachs is given our golden gal money. It's all good. Let's party with her. Right?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

249. I'm not going to argue the relative merits of Goldman Sachs and the NRA

I'd rather have either Hillary or Bernie over Ted or Donald. I'm not going to make it more complicated than that.

[Kittycat]

250. Interesting.

so you think Third way politics have been good for the country?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

256. I think strident conservatism has been bad for the country

I think labeling and demonizing those who look to build consensus or compromise as "third way" has been destructive to both parties.

[Kittycat]

262. That's exactly what third way is.

That's who they are and always have been. 20 years of conservative economics, set in motion by Bill Clinton. It's not intended as consensus building, they're not progressive. They're damn conservatives in the dem party, that caucus with republicans on economics and military issues when it's financially expedient. This is their policies in action. Surely you have researched this and them. Surely you know the history of the Blue Dogs, DLC, Clinton's and the Third way?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

268. I can't recall a time in my lifetime when the economy worked better than it did under Bill Clinton

And when I look at issues comparisons like this one

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-vs-bernie-sanders-on-the-issues-2015-9

that show Sanders and Clinton on the same page on about 85% of key issues, I grow skeptical of one being labeled as a "conservative." Like I said -- I'm not interested in arguing over whether a "true progressive" would give a speech to an investment bank any more than I'm interested in arguing whether a "true progressive" would vote the Brady Bill.

I'm like a lot of Democrats -- I don't hate Wall Street. I own stocks -- stocks in very good companies that employ a lot of Americans. That doesn't make me evil, and it doesn't make Hillary Clinton evil.

I'm more interested in spending my energy defeating people like Ted Cruz, Joni Ernst, and Ben Sasse -- Republicans with a strident social and economic agenda than focusing on the perceived evils of Chuck Schumer, Clair McCaskill, and Diane Feinstein. So use whatever labels you find convenient -- I still would rather have Hillary or Bernie over Ted or Donald. The whole "Hillary is as bad as a Republican" argument is just as bogus now as when the same argument was made about Al Gore.

[revbones]

359. Good that it worked for you. It didn't for everyone... nt

[MADem]

360. Best post in this thread.

How nice to see an adult in the room!

I don't own stocks, I'm not rich, but I'm not stupid, either--I know that any Democrat is better than the very best Republican that the GOP can cough up.

We've got the right ideas on our side, and most Democrats agree on a core set of those ideas.

Funny how Sanders SUPPORTERS are always calling Clinton horrible names...but Sanders himself CALLS HER HIS FRIEND.

[reACTIONary]

426. Thanks! Keep making sense! Eom

[Politicub]

390. You're right, kittycat. The GOP candidates are exactly the same

There's nothing at stake this election. It's not like one party wants to dismantle my civil rights or anything. Or to tear down what progress we've made on healthcare.

Shunning Hillary over donations or speaking fees is way more important than the prospect of the GOP control of the executive branch and Supreme Court nominees. Thank you for setting me straight, so to speak.

[Kittycat]

394. Things to think about

When propping up a candidate that supports regime changes that lead to the death of countless innocents, or trade and finance deals that continue to gut the middle class and add to the disparity hurting minorities and women as everyone vies for the scraps the wealthy throw at us. I hope Bernie wins big from here on out, so that even if he doesn't pull a win off, we can get some more protections put in place to ward off the free fall that's about to come.

[Politicub]

396. You're right. Hellfire and brimstone shall rain down

Should Hillary get the nomination.

Not just scraps from the tables of the rich; they will be burned scraps that we'll need to scrape with a butter knife - probably plastic - so they're at least edible.

Only Sanders stands between us and the end of America. That's a lot on his shoulders.

[snowy owl]

53. Just started here and haven't read you before you are so right!

Last edited Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:55 PM - Edit history (1)

This country has no institutional memory. It isn't the schools. It is too much media hype and self-aggrandizement. We are told we are exceptional when our people are working longer hours for less pay and getting over-priced healthcare if they can get it at all and serving rich and famous media-masters with what few discretionary pennies we have left. We have few values and are less informed. We have become spoiled children.

Many of the people to whom you are talking are emotional rather than intellectual voters. They are one issue or gender voters. It is our shame as a country. Education follows the values and principles a citizenry chooses. It is always a victim. The citizenry dictates the quality of life and education they receive. We have become a very cheap and predictable package that the uber rich can now control.

Hillary will not keep her promises. She does not have the skill nor the personality to achieve all the Bernie promises she made. Bernie had that skill. We are the poorer for it.

If you listen to this particular panel on book TV, John Nichols makes the case that this election may have been our final opportunity to change. I wonder ... I guess the Koch Brothers have won after all.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?406242-10/panel-discussion-politics

[Hoyt]

55. Things don't go your way, so you leave. Not a lot of commitment.

[OrwellwasRight]

132. Actually, a huge commitment.

To principles rather than to a party that keeps moving to the right and apologists who gleefully post things like "universal health care is ridiculous" and "let's save Social Security by raising the retirement age."

FDR is rolling over in his grave when he hears that banks are too big to fail, that bankers are too powerful to jail, and that several members of the current Administration received millions in bonuses from their corporate overlords as a reward for getting a federal appointment. That's not a party of the people

[Armstead]

325. No there are such things as "straws that break the camel's back"

Unfortunately this kind of bullshit is nothing new.

[ladjf]

56. Great post. Hope it isn't your last. nt

[Leontius]

57. bye

I'm sorry I won't miss you I didn't even know you were here.

[Pharaoh]

58. You give up easily Fearless

your name does not belie what you just posted. Have hope. It's not dead yet.

[shenmue]

59. Buh-bye!

[SammyWinstonJack]

284. Was the use of that smilie really necessary.

[Hekate]

62. Toodle-oo.

Good luck to you too.

[NYCButterfinger]

64. Come back. You rather have Trump win?

Come back.

[Maedhros]

66. Good choice!

And good luck to you!

[JohnnyRingo]

67. Kick the game board over on your way out.

Everybody likes that kid.

[bettyellen]

69. if your hoping this nation is "destroyed", then good riddance.

there is no excuse for that.

[4dsc]

70. Will the Hillary folks still be laughing when 30% of the Bernie folks don't vote for her

in the presidential elections if she is the candidate. Quit acting like your collective shit doesn't stink here.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

82. Will that 30% be laughing when we get President Cruz or Trump

Sure .. there's Elizabeth Warren in 2020. Meanwhile, the ACA will be dismantled, and the SCOTUS will go 6-3 conservative.

[truthseeker1]

158. No we won't be laughing, we'll be mourning the loss of our country

and so will you.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

174. If you can't bring yourself to vote for HRC, help elect Dems to the Senate

That way, even a potential Cruz or Trump agenda would be slowed.

I'm confident that most Sanders supporters will ultimately vote for Hillary if she is the nominee -- in part because Senator Sanders will throw his support behind her. I was a Hillary supporter in 2008 until she lost the nomination. At that time, I became an enthusiastic supporter of Barack Obama. If Bernie Sanders turns it around and gets the nomination, I'll vote for him.

[4dsc]

310. Mocking Bernie supporters has consequences

But some dumbass Hillary supporters don't get it. But keep posting the crap you do here and see what happens if she get the nomination.

While attending my recent county convention there were shouts of "bernie or bust". While I don't condone such a behavior and want everyone to vote for the candidate chosen by us your taunts are making it hard to show these young Bernie supporters why they should support Hillary.

[MADem]

362. You don't even see the irony in your post.

Let me point it out for you.

Star Member 4dsc (5,727 posts)
310. Mocking Bernie supporters has consequences

But some dumbass Hillary supporters don't get it. But keep posting the crap you do here and see what happens if she get the nomination.

While attending my recent county convention there were shouts of "bernie or bust". While I don't condone such a behavior and want everyone to vote for the candidate chosen by us your taunts are making it hard to show these young Bernie supporters why they should support Hillary.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

452. Thank you for saying that

[Downtown Hound]

449. So basically what you're saying is that unless you get the candidate you want

you will have no problem subjecting America and the planet to a Donald Trump administration? Swallow your pride and buck up. There is more at stake here than you and your puritanical values.

[Jester Messiah]

321. No. We'll be holding you and your Queen solely responsible. n/t

[dana_b]

85. they think we'll "fall in line"

now is MY time to

[johnp3907]

90. We all know where the stink is coming from.

Bernt toast!

[SammyWinstonJack]

285. Classy.

[onenote]

109. So the 100 percent of Clinton supporters and 70 percent of Sanders supporters who will vote

for Clinton (or against the republican) don't count?

[gcomeau]

162. Better hope they count enough to win.

Since a pack of fucking morons on this forum appears to think driving the progressives out of the party is Grand Strategy.

[onenote]

172. I'm a Bernie supporter but I don't think I'm being driven out of the party

I just know that we didn't command the support of a majority of the party, even with an influx of former Independents. But if we leave the party, we lose the chance to build on it. Threatening to hold everyone else hostage unless we get everything we want and get it right now isn't a long term strategy. It's a tantrum.

[gcomeau]

206. You're clearly not reading the threads I am.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1500405


That was in response to a progressive saying they were leaving the forum. And try reading the rest of the comments. Filled with responses that are absolutely fucking smugly CELEBRATORY they had driven off a progressive voter.

[AzDar]

74. It's hard to watch a lying Corporate Warmonger sleaze into the Nomination...

I know...

[Kalidurga]

75. Well there are other places to be....

Jackpineradicals.org

I will stay here and fight for the few souls that remain that are worth fighting for. Or until I am silenced. But....

see my sig line for more information

RIP
Gary Daniels (1943-1994), I will never forget the haunted look on you wife's face when she told us you have AIDS.

[rtracey]

78. goodbye

Sorry , but its time for you to leave, if you cant support the party. You would be saying the same thing to any Hillary supporter if the roles were reversed...

[jazzwinders]

79. Goodbye!

[johnp3907]

80. The first of many, I'm sure .

Lots of us predicted ed this.

[imagine2015]

81. Don't surrender your values so easily. Bernie hasn't. And I won't.

Hillary has not won the nomination. Far from it.

[mother earth]

83. The primary is not over, and Bernie is set to do well, please listen to this...

[JesterCS]

84. The replies here are disgusting n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

288. Yes they are.....but not unexpected, sadly.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

86. Curly Bill says...

[virgista]

87. Your post is beautiful! And fuck all those jerks in this thread who are dissing you.

I'm staying with DU but will be more selective about what I click on. Right now, I'm so pissed at the world that I won't talk to any HRC supporters for awhile (my sweet Mother in CA included, don't want to fight). I'm banning all those posters with fucking sideways H's, and their ilk. Not listening to Thom Hartmann till maybe after the election.

Gonna hang out with my goats and watch Netflix movies until I feel better.

You are a good person, Fearless.

[Gorgatron]

141. Why no Thom for you, if you don't mind me asking?

I listen to the show as much as I can and consider myself a big fan. Curious why you say you may stop listening. Also, I agree. The people who are dissing fearless are being rude. I for one really enjoyed reading the post. As unsettling as it may be.

[Matariki]

89. Fearless

http://jackpineradicals.org/

[ronnykmarshall]

91. Bye

[chwaliszewski]

92. Live Up To Your Name, Fearless...

I'm not giving up, not even if Hillary gets the nomination. I'll be caucusing for Bernie here in Washington and will write in his name on election day, if he is not the nominee. Never give up, never surrender.

[dnt.throwaway]

94. The Man in the Arena - Teddy Roosevelt

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Ride or Die. #feelthebern

[zentrum]

95. Can't believe how

……rudely people are talking in this thread to an FDR Democrat. Wow, I guess we're supposed to just be fans in a high school popularity contest now?
That's not the Democratic party I recognize.

I wish you weren't leaving but I understand. I'm one of you and we need to have your voice.

The way I manage is to never open posts about her anymore, since I know so deeply the Clinton history on foreign affairs, criminal justice, social security, lack of single payer, her hawkishness, her bankster ties, her DLC 3rd way—all the sad story of it.

Well, be well. Drop in once in a while.

[davidthegnome]

96. You are giving up before the fight is over.

Tonight, for the first time, I was tempted to do the same - but I won't. If you really believe in what you speak of, if you really want that change - then I ask you to stick in this thing with me, here at DU and with our votes, until the very end. Every vote counts. Every state counts. Every delegate counts. We are not done yet! How much did Bernie start out with? How much did the campaign start out with? How much did we, his supporters, start out with?

The super delegate count remains irrelevant until the convention. Clinton's lead among actually democratically chosen delegates is not so extreme that it cannot be challenged and even passed. The worm may very well yet turn.

BE FEARLESS. Sanders needs us - and we need him. Do not remove your important voice from DU, stay, stay and keep this fight going until it's conclusion one way or another.

If you really believe we can do the things you said were feasible - stick around. We can still do them!

[All in it together]

266. ^^Ditto what you said^^

I was pretty bummed about today and wanted to walk away too, Fearless, but the fight goes on. They want us to give up and go away, but it won't be that easy for them. Too many people are activated now to just let them tear down this world, and take it all for themselves. Bernie isn't giving up and he doesn't want us to either.
The fight may shift if the nomination doesn't go to Bernie, and we need it to continue it.

[Chicago1980]

97. People give up just like that?

Because you didn't get the outcome you wanted you'll just throw up you hands?

That's pretty weak.

[chowder66]

98. Respectfully, do you think Bernie wants Prez Trump, Cruz or Kasich?

I really don't have a dog in this fight.
Yes, I've been disappointed in how Hillary's camp has been running her campaign.
I really like Bernie and have been leaning towards him all along but I will vote for the Democratic nominee (without holding my nose). I don't think Hillary is out to "destroy" all that is good, etc. Does that mean she will be a good president? I have no clue but with that said...We have to be vigilant in expressing what it is we want to see from our President, regardless of who it is. I would rather see Bernie and Warren dealing with Clinton, pushing her further left with us behind them - then seeing what horrors would come with whoever the Republican nominee is going to be.

I say take a break. Take a long break and stay true to who you are.... but work with us in helping our elected officials hold the Presidents feet to the fire.

[metroins]

100. Enjoy your night.

I hope to see you active in the Democratic party.

[EndElectoral]

101. Yes, it is looking like a victory for Third Way politics over the New Deal.

And in my heart I know this is the wrong path.

Regardless if you support HRC or not there will be many who leave because they will not be bullied into voting for a candidate that simply doesn't remotely reflect their values. There will be pressures and guilt trips. You will be told suck it up and vote the lesser of two evils, and we can't let a maniac appoint the next supreme court justices.

I get it.

I just can't vote for someone whom I feel is leading us to war in the near horizon, who is in the pocket of big business, who lacks transparency, whose foreign policy is egregious, whose trade stances help big business at the expense of labor, whose rhetoric criticizes trickle down and the Citizens United decision, but essentially allows policy that only continues the trickle down polices to exist, and who takes large corporate donations despite saying they are against Citizens United, who says we can't have Single Payer despite living with medicare for the last 50 years and how most industrialized civilized societies live under universal healthcare quite successfully, who calls herself a pragmatic progressive (which thankfully we will never have to hear her call herself a progressive again after she gets the nomination), who compliments the Reagans for opening people's eyes to the AIDS crisis, who is for capital punishment, and on and on.

Henry Kissinger may vote for her. I cannot.

[PatrynXX]

102. if she does get it though

I'll consider this particular party no longer a Liberal party so the party leaves me I don't leave it. the onus was always on Hillary to prove me wrong but she's proved me right the longer this goes on. Not only that having the KKK stand up for her is a killer. I won't vote for no KKK backed candidate. Course I'll still be voting for Democrats outside the GE. They have more power than the president.

[Thespian2]

104. Perhaps Bernie and his revolutionary supporters

Will win the nomination...only the 1%er and her rabid supporters think she has already won...she hasn't and the Revolution will roll over that wing of the party yet...

Proud Progressive...

[iandhr]

105. Don't let the door hit you.

Post like show who the real low information voters are.

[SammyWinstonJack]

293. In your haste to diss and insult the OP, you left out a word.

Low information voter.....Indeed.

[brush]

106. Can't believe you posted this . . .

I hope you get to reap what you've sown. And I hope that at some point somewhere down the line the negativity and lies you've endorsed destroys this country.

You're actually hoping the country is destroyed.


Well, you're no lost.

[MyNameGoesHere]

108. Oh my, a SG out the door and taking my toys with me post. eom

[deacon_sephiroth]

366. silence is another form of argument eh?

well since you're now on ignore I'll consider your silent argument forever.

[JonLeibowitz]

112. K&R to everything you said.

I am continually reminded of McAvoy's speech these weeks.

Peace to you, and I hope you continue posting at Jackpineradicals.

[Zorra]

114. Take care, old friend. I'm leaving the Democratic Party and DU also.

[cherokeeprogressive]

116. You've been here nearly as long as me. Fuck 'em. I'm in at least until the primaries are over.

Stay until then. Don't give those fuckers the satisfaction.

And to all of you disrespecting a long time DUer like that? Fuck you.

[Art_from_Ark]

290. Agreed

All of the disrespective posters are going on my permanent Ignore list.

[SammyWinstonJack]

294. Thank you! Go Bernie!

The comments to this DUer are reflective of their candidate's attitude toward Bernie and his supporters.

[Kenjie]

119. Consider staying until everything is settled.

I have been a Democrat since I was eligible to vote and I have shown up and supported candidates which were much more conservative than me because they were of my party.

I really don't like how corporate the party has become. I don't like how DWS and other party establishment figures have done everything they possibly can to engineer the result they want. I despise how Bernie's opponent has flat out lied and said things like she didn't know where he was in the 90s on Health care. Then she expects our votes should she be the nominee. Worse it seems that many in the party are just fine with this. Yes there are even many of her supporters here that have turned me off with the way they support their candidate. I'm tired of holding my nose and watching people in this party cheering and making excuses for this constant drift to the right.

So I hear you and I have been thinking for a few months about switching my affiliation to Independent. I plan to wait until we see where the soul of the party will be but I've already researched how to do it and it turns out to be quite easy. The only way I would return is if we had another Sanders type candidate that I would support in a primary.

[HoosierRadical]

120. Thank-You Fearless this post describes many of us feel.

[Tree Frog]

122. Bernie Quote....

"Despair is not an option" - Bernie Sanders



After 10 years of being on DU, I read in your profile, you have it in your soul.
You care.

May you keep caring and working for our collective democracy so we don't lose it. And if we do lose it, we still keep working and fighting for it. There is no other option. Quitting is not an option.

Peace

[Bangbangdem]

125. This contest is not over.

Please remain optimistic, wherever you go. Later.

[democrattotheend]

127. From a Bernie supporter: why are you giving up?

Last I heard he isn't. I don't know if you noticed, but he pulled ahead in Missouri, Illinois is close, and he has narrowed the margins in OH and NC.

[hfojvt]

128. we may not be able to beat Trump as it is

and are we gonna change the party control of Congress?

The public keeps electing Republicans. Do you really think that happens because the country wants a revolution?

As far as this "good man" goes, can I fill out an application?

Probably wouldn't work though - I have three dogs.

I also feel much better about the Democratic Party's chances this fall than I would about the chances of the Democratic Socialist party.

Hey, if our champion had been, say, Russ Feingold, instead of an avowed socialist, I would have been happy to support and cheer for the non-DLCer. I just don't think we can afford to embrace the S-word.

[uppityperson]

129. Take a break, see what parts of DU you can use.

Not GDP, for instance.

[calguy]

130. Don't let the door hit you in the ass

[deacon_sephiroth]

367. let my ignore hit you in your ass n/t

n/t

[ConsiderThis_2016]

131. Breath...

Never give up... you owe it to Bernie.

[Billsmile]

133. The S word vs. the C word.

When you support the establishment you assert that this works for you.

[SansACause]

134. Want some crackers with that whine?

"I didn't get my way, so I'm taking my toys and going home."

This is politics. Like sausage making, not for the squeamish.

[dbackjon]

136. With Friends like you no wonder the GOP Wins

Bye then

President Trump thanks you for your purity

[Loudestlib]

244. If Trump wins it will be because democrats nominated a flawed candidate. n/t

[sharp_stick]

137. There's no reason to give up

Change is possible and it will have to start at a much more local level. Start working to make sure your State elects progressive candidates and the change will grow.

[senseandsensibility]

143. Thank you for the well thought out and articulate post

It reminds me of Bernie. But Bernie isn't quitting yet, and neither should you.

[Setsuna1972]

145. Bye

Don't let the door hit you on the way out !

[Ztolkins]

146. So, in other words....

"Wahh, wahh, wahh."

Can you at least leave your ball?

[deacon_sephiroth]

368. all these accounts......

it's very strange that most of the vile spewtum coming at the OP is from these accounts with like 200 posts or less. I wonder who these people are and if they only have accounts to run down members. I suspect enemies in our midst. Be ignored whoever you are and however many accounts you have to do this on.

[Ztolkins]

377. Yes, I guess it is quite suspicious...

Particularly when you consider that I'm being paid by the Clinton campaign AND Comcast to needle people about leaving an internet forum.

[peace13]

150. I pray that you don't read these comments.

I wish I could see the faces of the unkind posters, hear their voices so that if my path ever crosses theirs that I might walk to the other side of the street to avoid such a meeting.

My best to you and yours. I'll think of you in November when this nightmare is over..or rather just beginning.

[SammyWinstonJack]

296. They're Hillary supporters....I wouldn't expect kind comments.

[salster]

151. Nothing is feasible...

if you don't have the balls to see it through. I could throw in a bunch of cliches, but why bother? There is a Republican somewhere who is waiting for you to jump on their bandwagon.

[stonecutter357]

152. K&R!

[MrScorpio]

153. There are Republicans to beat in November...

Both in Congress and to keep them out of the White House...

The fight's not over yet.

[creeksneakers2]

156. Why give up so soon?

California alone has 546 delegates and its likely Bernie will get most of them. He'll probably win San Francisco unanimously. The map favors Bernie from here on in.

I'm sorry you wish ill on your country. We don't need dystopia to to bring about change. Bernie gets about 80% of the youth vote. If the next generation follows and the young folks from now don't change, there will be a majority for Bernieism.

Change will come, just not as quickly as you'd like it to. Take some time off, cheer up and come on back. There's lots of fighting now but I still think we are really on the same side.

[BainsBane]

157. FDR got 25% of his campaign contributions from Wall Street

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/02/08/why_its_ok_to_accept_wall_street_campaign_cash_129584.html

and was born into extreme wealth. He also presided over Jim Crow and little of the New Deal ever benefited people of color.

Bernie never even had a plan for K-12, so don't even pretend that the fate of the educational system is linked to him. Clinton is the only candidate who has addressed the massive disparity in K-12 schools that cements generations of poverty.

You, Bernie, and everyone else have had two major opportunities to try for single payer: in the early 90s and in 2009. In 2010, Bernie said that there was no chance single payer could have been passed, that there were only 8 or 9 votes for it. That was with a Democratic majority in both houses. So now, you couldn't have single payer, not with a GOP congress. You might be able to work for it in the future, however, but that requires a dramatic change in congress, not simply a different person in the Oval Office. Critical thinking should include acknowledging how government actually works. That should also entail a realization that political reform and one man's career are not synonymous.

None of those policies you mention die with Bernie's defeat. Your commitment to them may disappear, but then perhaps you should ask yourself what it is you really care about: policy or one man's career?

[azretired]

161. I will stay, but not vote for a woman who laughed at and traumatized a 12 year old rape victim

I was a supporter of women's struggles before most of the people on this site were born. I took (and won) the first successful case against Braniff Airlines when it fired a stewardess because she had reached the ripe old age of 35. Under my direction my law office helped, without fee. more than 3000 victims of domestic violence. I have always believed the greatest loss in human history has been the failure of our previous societal arrangements to allow women and their brilliant minds and hearts to participate fully in the affairs of the community.
I want us to have a woman president. I want us to have a woman as chief justice of the Supreme Court. My old screen saver was Nancy Pelosi on the day she became Speaker of the House.

Given my orientation you would think I would support HRC. But I can't.

There are many reasons that could be given, but there is one single thing she has done which, in my mind and heart, forever disqualifies her for a leadership role.

As you can tell I am a lawyer. I was also a law professor in my early career. I have a lot of sad and tragic experiences dealing with many, many women victims of sexual and physical assault. For me, some rules are written in stone. One is that, as a lawyer, on either side of the case, you respect victims. You never lie about them. You never increase their trauma. And, when the victim is child, you handle your case as tenderly as you would handle a case involving your own child.

I was shocked a few weeks ago to find that HRC had represented a child rapist. As a lawyer, I understand we often end up taking cases we would not otherwise take. I salute lawyers who do that as a public service. But when the rape victim is a 12 year old left unconscious for 4 days and in counseling for 10 years, you do not laugh at her. Even if it were true, and the woman says it was an outrageous lie, you do not sign court documents accusing a 12 year old of promiscuity. Flying far away to find an expert to help you prevent what you laughingly call "a miscarriage of justice" is a bit much for any lawyer, but especially for a woman lawyer who exhibited virtually no compassion or understanding of the terrible trauma this young girl experienced. And maneuvering to get an adult male a 1 year sentence for the brutal rape of a 12 year of girl is not a feather in your cap.

So, for me, I cannot support HRC. The story was told, including a videotape of HRC talking about the case, a statement from the victim who is now an adult, can all be found in a piece by Josh Rogan on Daily Beast in June of 2014 entitled "Exclusive: Hillary Clinton took me through Hell, Rape Victim says. " Sorry I don't know how to do the link.

[840high]

181. Thank you.

[Angel Martin]

261. here it is

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/20/exclusive-hillary-clinton-took-me-through-hell-rape-victim-says.html

[azretired]

443. Thank you so much

Sorry I am so out of touch that I could not do that myself.

Wasn't "Angel Martin" Jim Rockford's somewhat unreliable, but always interesting, sidekick?

[Angel Martin]

453. he was indeed !

for the links: on a Mac all you do is copy the article http into the message text box and the link is created automatically. For a PC, don't know, haven't had one for years, don't remember.

[ToxMarz]

163. Bye!

[passiveporcupine]

165. So,

there has to be another place to go. The internet is huge and there are so many of us out here who need a progressive home.

Skinner started up DU for the establishment.

Who will start up a group for those of us who are sick of the establishment and never progressing to a point that this country is actually growing stronger and showing that a progressive voice is the right answer.

I am looking for a home where I feel welcome...where I don't have to fight with the establishment any more.

I want a home!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

167. "pursuing a good man for a husband,"

Was that you chasing me earlier?

[Corey_Baker08]

183. U Will Vote For Bernie In November...As Vice President

[Corey_Baker08]

187. You Will Vote For Bernie In November... As Vice President

[Corey_Baker08]

212. IF He Is The Nominee Your Damn Right I Will

[NNadir]

168. Well, we're sorry to see you go.

Apparently your cats are more important to you than the possibility that a fascist racist is closer to the Presidency than your hero Bernie Sanders.

It stands to reason.

Your country and your world may not forgive your petulance, and I probably won't forgive your grotesque misreading of history - you seem not to know who FDR was - but you've made your stand, and it's clear enough.

I always hate it when someone smugly declares that the people who disagree with him or her are members of an "idiocracy," but we each have our own view on what that might be.

Whatever. You clearly don't love your country as much as you love yourself, and whether you can find a "good man" is none of my business, but I would say if one of my sons brought someone home who expressed these kinds of opinions, I would question whether he found a "good woman."

Bye.

[William769]

171. Thats your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

[deacon_sephiroth]

369. if you can't say something nice....

I guess "they" say lots of things. You however say nothing more to me. (ignored)

[William769]

406. One less person to have to hear from.

[polly7]

454. ..............

[winter is coming]

173. Be well. n/t

[Chan790]

175. Don't. They're leading in this battle...we've already won the war.

The future of this party has been changed forever and it's changed in our direction, away from them.

We've made great progress...and every gain we've taken has been taken from them. It's no longer their party. Soon, we won't even have to share it with them.

[George II]

176. .

[Hissyspit]

191. Sure.

Ignore everything in the content of the OP but the goodbye.

[NurseJackie]

178. oh no wait wait stop please don't go okay bye

(See ya.)

[AlbertCat]

197. You can wave goodbye to the USA....

...after Hillary loses the general.

[saturnsring]

184. this is the problem with dems we give up too easily - WHY dont you fight for your d.u.?

[pbmus]

190. Bernie would make a great VP

[dana_b]

214. no!! that would be a waste

I'd rather he stay in Vermont and continue to fight for them. As VP he'd do nothing but ambassador crap.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

192. Bub-bye

[lunamagica]

194. "So to all of those over the the Hillary group, I hope you WIN. I hope you get to reap what you've

sown."

Wow, just wow

[truthseeker1]

196. My God these comments are horrible

I hope the original OP doesn't come back and read them. But if you do Fearless, please ignore the nastiness and know that many of us feel the same way. I will stick it out as long as Bernie stays in. I hope you'll take a break and come back. We need everyone on board.

My Ignore list has grown a lot tonight.

[dana_b]

216. you have NO idea...

or maybe you do.

[Jester Messiah]

324. What do you expect from a bunch of conservatives?

That's all third-way is; just conservatism without the god-sauce.

[PCPrincess]

388. Excellent Analogy!

Just lurking until your post. I just had to stop and say - "awesome". That is exactly what many mainstream Democrats embody that aren't progressive.

[dhill926]

198. have some wine...a good nights sleep, take a short break...and come back...

usually I notice a lot of dick Bernie supporters. Tonight, a lot of dick Hillary supporters. It's like junior high in here. Don't let it get you down...

[nevergiveup]

202. i wish you well.

I just retired and will turn 72 very soon. My three proudest votes ever were McGovern in 72, Obama in 08, and Bernie, just yesterday. I will stay and fight for you as I don't have much else to do. When it comes to fighting for people's rights I never see "giving up" as much of an option. I have never much liked Hillary but I will work my ass for her especially when the alternative may well be a greedy billionaire narcissistic racist homophobic monster and the SCOTUS is in the balance.

As a long time DU member I apologize for some of the nasty comments you have received. They are so mean spirited and counter-productive. If I thought all Hillary supporters were like this I too would probably throw in the towel but I personally know many people of my generation who support her and they are good people and if she wins the nomination I will join them in the battle to keep the White House away from the crazy people.

Thank you for your heart felt post. I wish you well.

[PFunk1]

207. And you wonder why independents will be the largest political party past '16

This post nails most of it as many liberal/FDR-type dems or moving away from a party that no longer represents them anymore. In fact to many of these folks it's looking a lot like a new moderate repug party in dem clothing.

All of this will result in a record low november turnout-and it's dismal results if things keep going the way they are.

(Note: And more than a few moderated repugs are doing the same-they're just becoming dems now as they're seeing the change)

[SisterSarah]

211. Coming to terms-

Breaking news; Hillary Democrats do not believe in Evolution

[DemocraticWing]

215. This was alerted on. Results of the jury:

On Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:21 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Tonight is the night I leave the Democratic Party and Democratic Underground
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511500193

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Please, please, PLEASE let's not allow disgruntled Bernie supporters these moments of keyboard hara-kari. This does NOTHING to help Hill and NOTHING to help DEMOCRATS!

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Mar 15, 2016, 11:32 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We need to come together. Silencing the losing side will never accomplish that. Too many Hillary and Bernie supporters have been silenced this year.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: CDS needs to stop
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In the long run, I would agree with the alerter's concern about disgruntled posters and Hillary. But, on this night I think we can be a little understanding and cut passionate Bernie supporters a little slack.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I read down as far as the poster hoping that people's negativity "destroys this country" and that was enough for me to vote Hide. That's a disgrace.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[dana_b]

217. well, a couple of them have hearts n/t

[Amaril]

379. Hearts?

That's an interesting perspective.

[desmiller]

254. Typical. Kicking a person while he's down by abusing the system.

Where's the honor in that?

[JeaneRaye]

222. I understand

I truly understand where you are coming and I am right there with you, Fearless. Let me know if you find a better place to be, because I would love to follow you there. This site has been deteriorating for a very long time.

[shadowandblossom]

223. Each to their own.

Sorry to hear that you are feeling so disconnected from the party. I have spent a lot of my life experiencing being in the minority with my views and have gotten indignant about that before. I don't agree with you though, and am not an idiot simply because I disagree with you.

[bivster]

224. For one brief, shining moment...

I thought we could do it. I remember those days and thought we might have them again. I too was wrong.

[brooklynite]

226. Are you still here?

This is getting to be a long thread. Not much point if you're already gone.

[nadine_mn]

227. No offense, but what fairytale wonderland do you live in?

My frustration is this belief in all or nothing...we have way too much work to do.
I am a Bernie supporter. I would love for Bernie to president. I am disgusted at how money has corrupted our election process.

But I also live in reality. I remember what happened after Obama was elected for his first term. Do you remember...we had a Democratic majority and we were high on hope and change. And to his credit, Obama got a lot done..just not as much as many of us hoped for. And then fucking 2010 and Republican majority and stonewalling and no matter what Obama has done, he can't do it all because of those pesky 3 branches of government and balance of powers blah blah.

So let's play out the best case scenario..Bernie wins the nomination and the election. Yay. But he doesn't have any magic powers. He can still only do so much....Congress is still going to be bought and paid for and that is 535 to 1. And he can only do things at the federal level...look at the fucking mess the red states are in. Just because he becomes president doesn't mean all those nasty racist bigoted Trump supporters disappear ... the ugly has been awoken and they are going to be heard locally. The Koch brothers and Wall Street aren't going to say "well that's it...we had a good run, but President Sanders says no more so we have to go home". The Republicans might be a little more inclined to work with Bernie because he is a white male...but they have painted themselves so far into wacko land who knows.

If he doesn't win, does that mean it's over, we all just give up and amble along like mindless sheep? No. I will vote for the Democratic nominee because Hillary Clinton will still be leaps and bounds better than Trump,Cruz or Kasich. But I will also continue to push left and keep up the momentum created by Bernie. For crying out loud that is the very least I can do. Pretty sure Mr. Sanders would not want me to pack up my toys and go home.

I am sorry you feel like leaving is the only option you have left, but that is your choice. Good luck to you

[liberal_at_heart]

257. You mean the fairy tale land that the Labor Movement lived in? It can be done.

It already has been done, and will be done again.

[Bluenorthwest]

335. Ah, I remember 08 when it was Obama who was the Big Fairytale according to Clinton....

My advice to you and others is that you folks by and large do not understand how deeply disturbing the praise of the Reagans for championing AIDS was. They were the uncontested arch villains of that era and she said they were the opposite of that. It's chilling to the bone and as a third generation Democrat I am dreading the possibility that this Party might ask me to vote for a person who has no understanding of the politics of our time nor of the greatest public health crisis of the time she was personally in the WH working on health care. She really should know more than anyone how terrible Ron and Nancy were. But for some reason she does not and the rest of this Party thinks that's ok. It's not ok.

[nadine_mn]

422. I get that it's not ok

I was really surprised and disgusted by her words.

She is trying so hard to be everything to everyone that she has lost sight of who she is supposed to be representing.

For some reason the craziness of Trump is making Reagan look sane to people or even Bush seem not that bad. But they were really bad - bad for the economy, for LGBT, bad for minorities, bad for anyone not white Christian male.

I do not disagree that the extreme shift right is shifting everyone right - including Dems.

But my point is if nothing else, we have learned from Obama that the President is only one person. And the Republicans are going to block everything - it doesn't matter if Bernie or Hillary is elected. They have no desire to compromise on anything. And it is at every level - federal, state and local.

Someone saying they are going to leave if Bernie is not the nominee, IMO, is missing the bigger picture. Bernie can't do it all. Holy crap - there has been huge momentum with Black Lives Matter, with Bernie support, with people waking up to the reality that 1% can be defeated. We need to keep going and not throw in the towel at the first sign of defeat.

And you cannot put Hillary in the same category as Trump, Cruz and Kasich - no matter how much you disagree with her.

[Politicub]

397. The OP lives in a world where nothing is at stake

GOP or Dem. It doesn't matter to OP. They're both the same in the wonderland.

If Bernie doesn't get the nom, the only hope is the appearance of the spectre of FDR will save America.

[liberal_at_heart]

432. No the OP lives in the world where just as in the Labor Movement real people stand up and fight

for their jobs. That is the real world, not a wonderland. It has already happened and it will happen again. Sorry if it doesn't feed into your denial of reality, but it is real.

[Politicub]

433. Do what you need to do. But this isn't some intellectual exercise.

Unless the system changes structurally - run off triggers, etc. - there will be a binary choice come November. Maybe a third party will be thrown in the mix. This year is bizarre, so it could be a tertiary choice.

But the thing to keep in mind is structural changes will not take place before November. Do you get it? Sitting it out is a vote for the opposition. Voting for a third party with no chance of winning is a vote for the opposition as much as walking into the voting booth and pulling the lever for trump.

The stakes for labor, women, the environment, minorities, LGBT community, etc, etc, etc are enormous.

If you want a different system, by all means work to change it. But in the meantime, the choice is clear. Our nominee will be Hillary or Bernie. That's it. End of story. We'll have another four years to change the system after the election.

No one is going to beg for your vote, but you should be aware of the stakes.

[liberal_at_heart]

436. My autistic son is turning 18 this year. I am not confident at all he will be approved for SSI.

We spend trillions on war and Democrats are deathly afraid of even talking about raising taxes. Then Democrats cave to cuts to social services because there is not enough tax revenue to pay for social services. Don't talk to me about stakes.

[Politicub]

445. I don't agree with cuts to social security - never have

Stick with it with the SSI. Don't let the system wear you down. It took my husband two years to get his benefits started. That was about 10 years ago. I've heard the process has been sped up since then.

[liberal_at_heart]

447. I think there was something in the last budget deal that said that they would make

people who are already in the system go though it all over again. This seems to be true for my husband's friends. She is blind and has other health problems. Her children have had eye cancer and one of her children has a developmental delay. All three of them lost their SSI. I think there is a deliberate push to get people off of SSI because they don't pay into the system the way those that receive SSDI do. I am so pissed at both parties right now I can't see straight. That's why I like Bernie so much. He has the courage to say no to cuts to SS AND he says we need to expand SS.

[Politicub]

450. My husband went through a full review earlier this year

It was brutal. We were both worried that he would lose his benefits. The legalese in the letters they send is scary.

They even sent me a 10 page form to fill out.

[griffi94]

228. good luck

bye

[Nailzberg]

231. Wish you all the best. Bye.

Really don't have much more to say about "Leaving DU" letters.

[Carolina]

233. K&R

Beautiful post. Sadly true, and I feel exactly as you do.

I hope your cats, your writing and that future lucky man bring you some semblance of comfort and happiness in this stupid, crazy world.

[closeupready]

236. Reconsider! take a break - we've ALL been where you are, or

at least I certainly have, and taking breaks helps.

I will always welcome you back here with open arms.

Peace to you.

[Itchinjim]

238. Pfffft.

[Rhiannon12866]

239. I recommended this because I will miss you.

I have always enjoyed and recommended your posts. I hope that you take a break and eventually reconsider. I agree that things have gotten pretty tough here in recent months, but, like everything, this will pass. And DU needs more members like you...

[Jon Ace]

241. I didn't believe 'em when they said primary season gets ugly around here...

Don't stray too far, Fearless.

[rsammie]

247. You sound way too much like Rush and Mitch

"And I hope that somewhere down the line the negativity and lies you've endorsed destroys the country."... WOW! I can't ever remember having a thought like that, even in the throes of my despair during the cheney/bush cabal years. Think about that...I hope the country IS DESTROYED so that I might be proven correct back in the primary election of 2016. What a selfish and narcissistic sentiment. It is straight out of the nihilistic playbook of Rush and Mitch McConnell, literally rooting for our President, and thus, the Nation, to fail so that their personal policy positions are ultimately judged to be superior. Literally gross.
I get it. You don't like Hillary. Like me, you feel like nominating a Clinton 30 years later is a monumental failure of imagination on the part of the Democratic Party. No Shit. Hillary's campaign annoyed the shit out of me during 2008, as we Obama workers/volunteers felt probably the same feelings you're having now about Bernie. As much as I held Hillary in disdain in 2008, I was prepared to vote for her against McCain/Palin. Since then she has impressed the hell out of me. The Iran deal is way more hers, than Kerry's, as she laid all the ground work for the brutal sanctions we imposed to get them to the table.
Let me tell you how this works. Go back to the year 2000. Many, many well-intentioned and intelligent voters made the determination that there was no difference between the republican and Democratic parties. They were all corporate shills cut from the same cloth. The ralph nader people had nothing but contempt for Al Gore. To them, Al was a centrist corporate politician. Now, it didn't help that Al ran away from Bill Clinton (because of the blowie) or picked that embarrassment, Lieberman. Gore won the national popular vote by over 1,000,000 votes. He lost the election because far-left voters abandoned the party because they were convinced there was no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush, and wasted millions of votes on Nader. Does anybody now feel like a Gore presidency would have been a little different than a Cheney/Bush presidency?!
Don't let your passion for your candidate who you might legitimately feel is superior, stop you from doing what is best for the common good. Having a temper tantrum and allowing trump or cruz to win is unacceptable. Please check yourself.

[liberal_at_heart]

251. I too have left the Democratic Party, but I am not giving up. Those that fought in the Labor

Movement didn't give up. This will be a long, hard fight that will take years, maybe even decades. We have to be ready for the long haul and we need to ready the next generation for the many years it may take as well. Millennials need to know that they will be fighting this for many years. If Bernie does not win the nomination, the fight does not stop with him. We are the Revolution, and we must continue it no matter who wins the nomination.

[RandySF]

252. Good luck out there.

[sister_rosa_refried]

255. So long, dear

[SleeplessinSoCal]

258. Winners never quit and quitters never win.

True today, yesterday and tomorrow.

[The Second Stone]

259. Well, then the feeling is most mutual

good luck to you in the future. Tonight, voters have spoken, and in the coming weeks, more voters will speak and I applaud that.

[akbacchus_BC]

263. When you leave, you are giving up. Don't leave.

It is still a long way to November. Where I come from, the saying is one dutty at a time build up a dam. Stay and let your voice be heard. Or at least, stay with us who still have hope for America to continue on the progress that President Obama built! Don't go!

[Rockyj]

264. Never will vote for Hillary!

I'd say why but can't say it here.

[akbacchus_BC]

265. It is always the lesser of two evils. But who knows if Mrs. Clinton

gets elected that she will pick a supreme court person who is not for the 1%! She is for the 1% all her life.

What a predicament you all are in!

[OnyxCollie]

267. Both have outlived their usefulness.

[Stand and Fight]

269. Goodnight and good luck.

I don't see things as you do in the slightest.

[Herman4747]

329. Now what did FDR have to say about those behind the big banks?

"I WELCOME THEIR HATRED!!" FDR (1936)

And Hillary?

I WELCOME THEIR CASH!! Hillary (2016)

[Stand and Fight]

440. That's the most disgusting nonsense I've ever seen.

She never said that, and you're making yourself look silly attributing such a quote -- even if you didn't include quotation marks, it's a disgusting tactic. Desperation is sad. Good luck with that.

[Herman4747]

441. Disgusting, huh?

What's more disgusting is Hillary receiving $675,000 from Goldman Sachs, and her refusal to let us all know what she told them.

Guy, Hillary truly does welcome their cash.

[TeamPooka]

270. -1 = another vote +1 for Trump so thanks for that. I'll have to GOTV that much more now.

[deacon_sephiroth]

370. enough fearmongering

if the only thing people have to get votes for Hilary is the monster in the closet then your candidate is just as hollow as everyone says. I'll not be scared into supporting another half-measure. We're clearly tired of the lesser of two evils. It's gotten us nothing but evil, sometimes slower sometimes faster.

[TeamPooka]

387. You're a GOP wet dream. nt

[CaptainTruth]

275. I see far too much of this on DU, & it pains me.

Supposed "Dems" attacking Hillary.

Supposed "Dems" attacking Bernie.

Seriously. Are Hillary &/or Bernie the enemy?

Are they the ones who want to take healthcare away from millions of Americans & leave them to die? (Including me?)

Are they the ones who want to control women's bodies & force them to have rapist's babies?

Are they the ones who promote supply-side ("trickle-down&quot economics which only enriches the 1% who fund GOP election campaigns while leaving the middle-class & poor to suffer?

I could go on & on but the answer is NO ... neither H or B do those things.

Either Dem candidate is orders of magnitude better than a GOP candidate.

We all need to realize this & we all need to #UniteBlue.

[LiberalLovinLug]

276. I hope you come back

That was a heartfelt and painful OP. I know its hard to take right now. And the assholes gloating and acting like six year olds don't help.
I always had to hold a small place in check in case Hillary does win. After all she has the MSM, Debbie Downer, Goldman Sachs and the rest of the Wall Street criminals and who knows what other nefarious creatures in her multi million dollar secret money Superpacs. I never did hold Bernie's chances as great. Its all about holding Hillary's feet to the fire. She must be reminded of the fact that, as on DU, a large portion of the Democratic base's appetites were spiked by Bernie's obvious and doable solutions from a progressive direction. And if she insists on transforming the Democratic party into the new Republican party by stealing all their corporate backers for herself, she needs to be made aware of how unhappy many many Democrats are with that.

[Betty Karlson]

278. Sorry to see you go. Best of luck.

[senz]

279. Beautiful OP. Thank you.

I hope things go well for you. Cats, writing, and a good husband sound like components of a satisfying life.

It is comforting to note that the ugly, mean responses are not from Bernie supporters.

Be well.

[johnlucas]

295. Don't blame you. People are too used to eating shit & have gotten used to the taste

I have been here since 2008 & I already saw the Democratic Party as a bunch of hapless weaklings who roll over for the Republicans.
I HOPED that Obama would be the end of that but he didn't change the party at all.

However, it's obvious that Bernie Sanders WILL change this party & make it something worth voting for.
Unlike Obama I don't have to gamble in the wind hoping he will change it, I can look at Bernie's record & KNOW that he will change it.

Just like in 2008, my vote was more for the UNDERGROUND than the DEMOCRATIC.
I have not considered myself a Democrat since the time I joined this forum in 2008.
After seeing that wimpy 2006 Congress I threw away that affiliation.
I only vote Democrat now hoping to see a transformation in the party that will ACTUALLY lead to strong sensible policies backed by strong representatives with a backbone.

I nearly flirted with voting for Nader in 2000 & 2004 but backed off because of that Boogeyman Republican routine.
So I backed weak Gore & weak Kerry.
Even back then I was somewhat disgusted with the Democratic Party.
Voting for Obama in 2008 was to change the party.
Voting for Obama in 2012 was to hold the coalition together UNTIL we can change the party.

I almost gave up on getting past that weak Democratic structure before we got into this 2016 race.
I even said Hillary was the best choice to hold the coalition together for the future in 2014.
But then Bernie Sanders came & I knew our moment was now.
The change came sooner than I expected & I immediately dropped that Hillary coalition nonsense to back Bernie.

THIS TIME I will not back off for the Boogeyman Republican routine.
I WILL have this change one way or another.
We either get Bernie as the Democratic nominee or we see Hillary get destroyed by Trump in the general election.
Hillary can't beat Trump.
So I either get to vote for Bernie as President after he gets the Democratic nomination...
...or I vote for Bernie after he loses the Democratic nomination.
No more Boogeyman games.

It either changes the EASY way or it changes the HARD way.
Like your screenname, it's time to be FEARLESS.
John Lucas

[Baadger]

300. dont leave yet Fearless

... the fun is about to begin

[scottie10]

301. Sorry to see you go

Before this post I did not know you. Thank you for the eloquent post. In many ways I feel the same way you do. But we can't quit. For our children and grandchildren we must keep trying to make things better, as you wish them to be.

[BrainDrain]

303. "Prolly not far behind you...

'cause the stupid here is entirely to concentrated to be borne anymore.

HRC...just another big money candidate..bought and paid for.....to the rest of you...have fun with that...

[Vinca]

304. I'm disappointed, but I'm not leaving.

Hillary is far from my candidate of choice - I honestly can't stand her - but you have to look at the big picture: Clinton or Trump. One is annoying and one is annoying, nuts and dangerous. Sometimes you just have to suck it up for the good of the country. Maybe Bernie will somehow keep her from going total Republican on us.

[Mike Nelson]

306. People always say...

...they're leaving. Some do and some don't... if you're lurking to read these replies:

Stick around. Vote for Bernie. Vote for Hillary. If FDR were here, he'd ask that of you.

[Vattel]

307. You are awesome Fearless.

[Cheviteau]

308. Strange Attitude To Take

I find it very odd that one claims to be a democrat when he/she cannot accept the democratic process of others voting for their chosen candidate. This poster is a class-A whiner - not a real democrat. Really not even a good fake one. I'm a "Roosevelt" by birth, having been born during his second administration. Been a democrat all my life long. You are far removed from the ideas put forth by the icon of our party. Be gone ! Your sniveling is disgusting. Yeah, I voted for Bernie in our state's primary. I'm a democrat.

[yardwork]

357. Harsh but fair. Please post more often. We need your perspective.

[pdsimdars]

309. I never did hear that fat lady sing yet. Are you a Hillary supporter?

Putting up this post of woe and despair? Don't seem very "fearless" to me, more Palin-esque. . . . as in quitter.
Buck up and stick it out.
Honestly, this post does sound more like a Hillarian.

[Progressive dog]

311. Tonight is the night Democrats chose their nominee

and I am glad they did.

[JNelson6563]

313. Your hard work and activism will be missed!

I am sure your county and state Dem parties will never be the same.
They will somehow have to soldier on.

[Nitram]

314. Hasta la vista.

Hope you recover and rejoin the fray when you've had time to think and lick your psychic wounds. I remember feeling totally discouraged when Nixon was re-elected. And then again when Reagan was re-elected. And again when Bush was re-elected.

[treestar]

315. Ok

[fleur-de-lisa]

322. K&R!

[deutsey]

323. As Carlin points out in your video link, it's all been rigged by those in The Big Club

The political system, the economic system, etc.

So honestly, despite how much I've supported Bernie since the '90s, I didn't think he would be the nominee. Still, I wanted him to run, if for nothing else than to promote the ideals that made me align with the Democratic Party in the first place.

He's done extraordinarily well because I think there are many of us out there who have felt ostracized since the Reagan Reaction and we finally have a candidate genuinely speaking (and fighting) for us.

For those in The Big Club and those who support their agenda, it's all about horse races and who wins the contest and who loses. That keeps most people's distracted from how much most of us are getting screwed every day because WINNING!

Bernie has offered an alternative and it has resonated. There are very powerful forces at work that trying hard to snuff it out.

Regardless of the outcome of this election, those of us who support what Bernie stands for have to be prepared to continue organizing and fighting.

It's not going to be easy and it sure isn't going to be pretty.

But that's the only real hope those of us who aren't The Big Club can hold on to.

[Califonz]

328. So the Corporate Stooges had a good night 3/15

The FDR/Bernie wing of the Democratic Party still fights the good fight. Never give up!

[nyabingi]

334. I understand your sentiment 100%

but it's not quite over yet - I'm waiting to see how the remaining primaries play out and then make some decisions then. What I do know is that I would never, under any circumstances, vote for someone as wicked and corrupt as Hillary Clinton.

The anti-austerity movement has been a global one, and with Bernie's ascension during this primary process, the US (which I consider among the most right-wing/semi-fascist countries on the planet) even developed its own version. We are up against not only a large extremist contingent of right-wing, knuckle-dragging racists and misogynists, but also a pro-corporate, misanthropic neoliberal contingent that is more than ready to see this country continue flowing down the sewage pipes into irrelevance.

When Hillary has given even more to her people (her "base" as Bush called them - the economic elite) and the ordinary people are suffering and we are engaged in even more senseless wars, I'll be here to give her and her disciples hell for their choices. They can't defend her now and they won't be able to when she's tearing this country down even more than it is now.

[MynameisBlarney]

338. Aw man...

I hope you change your mind.

[Paladin]

339. Happy landings. (nt)

[liberalnarb]

345. What party are you going to?

The Greens?

[Politicub]

353. You must not have anything at stake

So go ahead and indulge yourself. People will suffer if the GOP gets control. But you don't seem to care. If your mind is made up, then good for you. Hope that purity works for you and the people you care about.

[FighttheFuture]

355. Cripes! Take a pill! Nothing changes overnight and nothing will change if you put head up your ass!

It took 50+ years of establishing RW think tanks, chipping away slowly, methodically at laws, unions, people, parties, stealing a few elections, etc. for the "Owners" to bring us to this point even with all their money and organization. It will not be cleared away overnight especailly with your belly-aching.

[SpankMe]

356. If you're leaving DU, then where will you be posting from now on? n/t

[LonePirate]

358. Someone has not been paying attention if they just now believe the party lost FDR's values

[deacon_sephiroth]

364. Wow you were very right

Good call to watch the grave dancing. The Hillary crowd in this thread behaved in an absolutely vile and disgusting way. I have a lot of people to place on ignore now, and I'll strong consider removing the site from my list completely. I'm shocked and sickened to my stomach to see the way people are treating you. Shame on them all.

[deacon_sephiroth]

374. on second thought

going through this thread I had to put so many scummy trolls on ignore I lost all faith in this site. I'm out.

[Politicub]

389. I guess I'm one of those vile Hillary supporters

There are faces behind these DU handles. I don't see grave dancing, but I'm not seeking that out.

You're not the first to call me disgusting. Or my behavior disgusting, whatever. Growing up gay in a small town got me used to people thinking I'm (oh my behavior) vile and disgusting.

Maybe I'm already on your ignore list and you won't even see this. That doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is the party that actively wants to dismantle my rights. Staying home on Election Day may make some feel righteous, but it has real consequences.

[dana_b]

400. That's the only good thing about this thread

they're all in one place

[asjr]

365. Those of you who will not vote for Hillary may end up with Trump.

[deacon_sephiroth]

371. the lesser of two evils

that choice never ever gets old. No one is sick and tired of that.

[Politicub]

398. I'm beginning to believe that's what they want

The myth goes something like this. Trump will usher in so much suffering that the only place to turn will be Sanders. Only sanders can save America.

[asjr]

404. I'm not saying you are right, but it does seem like Sanders has his finger in the dike and could

save us all.

[Duval]

372. Best of luck to you, Fearless.

I am hoping the "climate" will change around her sooner or later. Nonetheless, you will be missed.

[jzodda]

375. Every four years we get this foolishness here

Personally I don't get it. You want to leave? Then go without the drama.

In 2004 it was Dean

2008 it was Obama and Hillary.

2012 we got a pass

I hate group think. This site can't handle more than one point of view? I've seen these posts for 12 years.

The world didn't end when dean didn't get it. Didn't end when Clinton didn't get it. It won't end when Bernie doesn't get it either.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

376. Sorry to see you go. We need more, not fewer, people who think for themselves.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. Friedrich Nietzsche

[Jackie Wilson Said]

378. I wish you would have left George Carlin out of it.

As much as he was right about everything, including politics (almost everything), I dont think were he alive today he would risk a Trump or Cruz presidency, or for that matter Kasich.

I feel terribly distraught over the reality that we seem to have come so close to the kind of change that would really help a whole lot of people and yet we missed it, and I am pissed too.

What I wont do is now write off the whole shooting match just because I didnt get what I wanted. too much at stake

[Thirties Child]

380. Same old, same old, once again will hold my nose and once again vote for the DINO

I sympathize with you, had so hoped to elect another FDR, afraid it won't happen in my lifetime. Sigh. I've been around a long time, cast my first vote in 1956 (for Ike), have watched the Republicans become the John Birchers and the Democrats become the 1960s Republicans. The position once held by the Democrats is empty, has been since 1992. During the horrendous Bush years I thought the Republicans are awful, but the Democrats aren't much better. They just go along.

I don't, don't, don't want to vote for Hillary, and it probably won't make a difference in red Georgia, but Trump is such a horror I can't sit this one out. Mr. Thirties, who hates politics, will hold his nose and vote for her. Our multi-multi-multi millionaire SIL has probably never voted for a Dem in his life, will vote for her.

Feel so sad, and so discouraged about where our country is headed. Empires never last. Good-bye Rome. Good-bye British Empire. Good-bye USA.

This is disjointed, which is how I feel. Good luck, Fearless, and God-speed.

[Politicub]

399. If Bernie is the nominee I, too, will hold my nose.

When I vote for him. On this we can agree.

[Thirties Child]

414. Do you always twist the knife on a day someone is sad but willing

[Politicub]

419. Christ on a crutch

I was saying the same basic thing. I'm sorry for offense. Truly. I get it. It sucked when hillary lost Michigan.

And honestly, I'm more of a yellow dog democrat. So I would support our eventual nominee with enthusiasm. Either of them stand in stark contrast to trump.

[KamaAina]

383. Two words: Jackpine Radicals

http://www.jackpineradicals.com

And I am a single man who loves cats.

[jomin41]

393. I emphatically agree with every syllable, Fearless.

Great Post! Sorry you're leaving. I'm not hanging here as much anymore, either.

[sammythecat]

401. I hear you, and except for one thing,

I agree with every word you wrote. I'm not leaving today. I've been coming hear just about every day for a very long time and it's become a habit. I do expect one of these days soon to be my last. I don't intend to spend time with the likes of some of the shitheads that have responded to you in this post. Coming here has become nothing less than a dispiriting aggravation and it's going to get worse.

The Democratic Party I believed in all my life has ceased to be in my view. They've been presented with the near perfect candidate and they rejected him in favor of someone I dislike intensely, a DINO if there ever was one. Democrat in name only, a perfect description of both the candidate and the party.

Anyway, sorry it's come to this for you. Don't let the shithead responders waste any of your energy, they're not worth it, and good luck to you.

[lillypaddle]

402. Don't let the door

hit you in the ass.

[gcomeau]

411. Ah, Clinton supporters.

So gleefully smug about driving progressives out of the party. But then, what else should we have expected out of anyone whose preference was Clinton over Sanders right?

[monicaangela]

403. Thanks for all the time and consideration you put into trying to be a part of the change

We have been looking for. I do hope you reconsider and stay around. Your opinion is needed here.

[Ferd Berfel]

408. K&R

The New Democratic Party = the old Republican Party

This party hasn't represented me in decades. I'm not a republican in any degree.

[Octafish]

410. What's the matter, Fearless?

So what? We ran out of time. We're gaining on the, uh, them, uh, the, uh, Col. Sandurz side.

[Gamecock Lefty]

416. Bye Bye!!!

[cyberpj]

418. Idiocracy

[jello]

424. very well said

I praise your words and your actions, but I just joined, its the only place where at least some of this gets discussed. I am an optimist, so I continue to support Bernie...California, the entire "Left" coast, of which I am a part of, still remains, as does New York, my birthplace, and New Jersey...Hillary is not inevitable, yet.

[UglyGreed]

425. Thank God we have

some other place to go to now.

[geek tragedy]

431. .

[TBF]

444. Solidarity

See you in the streets (I know it's where we're headed - this country obviously can not figure out how to do this peacefully)

Thank you for trying

[Walk away]

446. Hey! I got back just in time to say goodbye!!!!!

[ncteechur]

451. So what if Bernie wins the nomination?

What if he were to win and the HRC voters decide not to support him? I guess he wouldn't be able to win the GE either.

I guess it's Pres Trump either way, huh?