2016 Postmortem
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Armstead
(47,803 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I'm glad you shared this but much of the concept doesn't work that way on du. It does work that way more often than not with democrats outside of du. I do empathize with the pain aspect. Truly.
Akamai
(1,779 posts)remarked on by others.
Bernie's themes and insights are those so many of us resonate to.
Go Bernie!!!
demwing
(16,916 posts)I can't stand the Clintons and their lies.
Fuck them, and the 3rd way Trojan horse they rode in on....
brooklynite
(94,384 posts)The attitude of a lot of Sanders' supporters has been that there's absolutely no good reason to vote for a mainstream, pro-choice, pro gay rights, pro immigration, pro progressive taxation Democrat in the mold of Barack Obama, and that the ONLY reason she could be winning was 1) cheating; low information voters; conservative voters; ignorant Black voters; etc...
Response to brooklynite (Reply #4)
Armstead This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(94,384 posts)...and then convince a MAJORITY of General Election voters to do the same thing.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I'm incredibly angry and depressed tonight,..Not just because of Bernie. I have to watch my words.
dinkytron
(568 posts)pfitz59
(10,309 posts)That she will do something really stupid.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Do you realize that we are a small minority here (though, obviously not, in the general population), yet many of us have been targeted and gotten HIDES simply because we didn't support your candidate? Many of us are ethnic minorities, too--underrepresented as a segment of the national population here, making the HIDES doubly impactful.
I don't have -- and never have had -- a problem with Bernie Sanders, The Senator. I simply don't think he is the "best" of the two on offer. It should not be a crime to say that.
I too hope we'll be able to understand one another. I think there needs to be less abuse of the alert system, though. I hope you see where WE are coming from, too. Understanding works both ways.
I think Sanders would be a stellar Labor Secretary--I've said as much before. That is his one major issue, worker rights, benefits, and opportunities--so why not let him make the difference there, where his chief concern lies?
I do think any paths he may have had to the nomination are greatly obstructed by his performance this evening. That doesn't mean he can't have an influence on national issues beyond the primary.
question everything
(47,440 posts)Hekate
(90,565 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)riversedge
(70,093 posts)greatly accelerated negative campaigning was not a good strategy for him these last few weeks. He has been extremely negative. IMHO
MADem
(135,425 posts)The fact that he promised to not go negative, and then did, was a problem.
There were other issues, too (the data breach, for starters, and more afterwards) that I think snowballed one upon the other to finally have a cumulative effect.
I think he has a tough, ugly slog ahead, and it almost assuredly won't end well. He'll get a good speaking slot at the convention but at some point in time he's going to have to have the Come To DNC conversion if he wants that platform. He's going to have to pitch in and help with down-ticket races, raise some money, and support the nominee--and persuade his supporters to do the same.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)He is supporting her, but he's not being paid by her.
Facts do matter. And the facts are that Sanders has engaged in negative campaigning of late, and it appears to be blowing back on him.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)The second largest contributor to the SuperPAC he runs, Correct The Record, is none other than Hillary for President.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgave2.php?cmte=C00578997&cycle=2016
They were the largest donor until just before Christmas when PRIORITIES USA ACTION dropped a million bucks into his PAC. That would be the same PRIORITIES USA ACTION incidentally that David Brock himself ran until early last year.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He doesn't collect a salary from the Clinton campaign to provide support to HRC. He's not a staffer.
There's nothing to prevent a Bernie supporter from firing up their own "Correct the Record" enterprise. It's not illegal, and trying to make nefarious suggestions about it is feeding into a victim mentality that is wearing thin over time.
Coincidence
(98 posts)DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)Labor Secretary would be interesting, but ultimately I think it would be more obscure than continuing to work in the Senate.
I'd love to see Robert Reich back in that post, if he'd be willing to do it again.
MADem
(135,425 posts)generally speaking, the POTUS is not going to stop them. If they want to phone it in, they'll be regularly "assigned" tasks. If Sanders wants to work hard, he has a good chance of accomplishing much (not all, but a good chunk) of the stuff that is found in his mid-length stump speech.
I mean, think about John Ashcroft--he was so busy he wrapped himself in the Patriot Act...and still had time to clothe naked statues.
Assuming HRC is POTUS45, Reich will be lucky to get in the WH on a tour. He has been pretty vicious and disloyal to both Clintons, for no good reason, really. He made a few bucks kissing and telling, but he lost a lot of goodwill. He couldn't even win a gubernatorial primary in MA because of his perfidy.
I'd rather see Sanders at Labor--it is his wheelhouse, his area of interest, and the thing that keeps him energized. Odds are that the Dem governor of VT would love to run for his seat, too, since I understand Leahy is sticking for the time being.
But we'll see. Who knows how it will all shake out?
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)The New Deal would have been pretty much No Big Deal if it weren't for her. To make a New Deal targeted towards minorities, now that would be something, and would help the economy so much more than pretty much anything else.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)How many plots were hatched at that site started by one of your hosts until it became public and viewing was blocked except to your members?
MADem
(135,425 posts)group doing that stuff, so let he who is without sin throw the first stone in their own glass house, to mix a few metaphors.
The fact remains that MANY HRC supporters have gotten HIDES for simply expressing a dislike for a candidate.
And that's just wrong. Might doesn't make right.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)The Bernie site doesn't allow any badmouthing like the Hillary one does.
Should I send you some screen shots? Including some of your own posts?
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'll bet "they" have "screen shots" of bad behavior on the part of your team as well.
Do you seriously think it changes anything? That it MATTERS?
I have news for you--Hillary Clinton had a big night tonight. She won five out of five. It is becoming close to, if not impossible for your candidate to win. You're eventually going to have to find a way to accept that and move forward with the "D" team, or you can stew in your own juices.
I'd prefer it if you'd do what those Clinton supporters did eight years ago when they helped Barack Obama get elected, rather than go the "Bernie or Bust" route that those few PUMAs pursued.
It's up to you, though.
vintx
(1,748 posts)So that very poster is posting on the site where Hill's fans trash Bernie's supporters? The person who replied by saying they don't want to get involved in 'your' offsite stuff?
MADem
(135,425 posts)still_one
(92,061 posts)Response to MADem (Reply #5)
Post removed
radical noodle
(7,997 posts)I support Hillary but I know exactly how you (and I assume other Bernie supporters) are feeling tonight. While it isn't over yet, it is obviously very difficult now for him to get the nomination.
I believe that Hillary will embrace Bernie just as she embraced President Obama in 2008. She was graceful in her defeat and she will be graceful in her win. It is impossible politically for any candidate to get everything done that they hope to do, but I believe she will try her very best to do the things she has promised. Ultimately that's all any candidate can do.
I know Bernie supporters must be discouraged and down hearted tonight but I'm sure that if Bernie loses the nomination he will still be an important part of the political process of our nation.
Also congratulations to Bernie and his supporters for doing so well in his campaign. It has been an amazing contest and many Hillary supporters would enthusiastically support Bernie if he were to win.
renate
(13,776 posts)Thank you! (And I love your name!)
radical noodle
(7,997 posts)DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)Loki
(3,825 posts)a very long, long time. I have had many of my chosen favorite candidates lose over my lifetime, but I never stopped being a Democrat and working for the values that I know are right and true and have people that are willing to work for the common good. I never once pouted and stayed home and didn't vote because my guy didn't win. I'm a Democrat, and that encompasses a lot of territory. I hope that Bernie Sander's supporters realize that. I did a long time ago. It's takes a lot to become a gracious loser, but we have all been there.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)And never considered not supporting the main ticket. But I've never had a candidate I'm so diametrically at odds with. It's like asking me to vote for DWS. I see no benefit. No reward. Only harm. Yes I see harm in the otherside, but I'm perplexed why our leadership would prop up such a flawed candidate, and literally shut out one that thus far has been able to achieve something out party has only dreamed of. Imagine if they only gave him an assist. But there in lies the rub. The difference between the people and the coroate ruling class. And they will have none of it. So what happens on the day we say enough?
Loki
(3,825 posts)It never comes that way and the alternatives must be acceptable to you, but it isn't to me. That's what makes us different. I know what the danger is, and it's not Bernie or Hillary.
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)and I'm truly sorry because I know just how incredibly important it is to have hopes, dreams and needs be valued and how very painful it is to have them deferred. My screenname is chosen for a reason. I have never, ever had a candidate who truly represents what is important to me. What I want has yet to be on the ballot. So, yes, I feel your pain. I always vote for the candidate who comes closest to what I want and work as hard as I can to make things better. No matter how steep the climb. I see where you are coming from and truly appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Your voice and ideas are so important. Please never, ever give up your dreams.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)She has worked in direct opposition to the things we believe in.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)CTs here and I think the standard people here are holding Hillary to is.... special, to say the least. I do not fear her as president.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)NO OTHER politician is subjected to this extremely dishonest abuse.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)This passage was especially eloquent:
question everything
(47,440 posts)I was going to stay away from GDP but took a sneak preview.
Tonight almost make it worth it all the abuses, the imbalanced "jury" decision.
Go ahead, grieve. But remember, in November, the Supreme Court is in the balance.
Not just Scalia, but, no doubt, 2 or 3 more.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2016, 09:53 AM - Edit history (1)
OP is having a hard night and OP doesn't represent every Sanders supporter in existence who has ever done something.
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)So here's the real test: can the movement's energy be channeled into Congressional races? Because otherwise, it's just going to be a repeat of the same old "See you again in 4 years" mentality from progressives that has worn out its welcome in the Democratic Party.
New goal: A more progressive Congress!
Fla Dem
(23,593 posts)All these involved, enthusiastic Bernie supporter need to be energized not just during the Presidential elections, but during the mid-terms as well. All the new, young Obama supporters abandoned him because he wasn't able to accomplish everything he campaigned on in his first 2 years. But did they work on getting a Democratic congress to give him the support he needed to push his agenda? No. Did they work to get Democratic Governors and state reps elected? No. Change happens from the bottom up. A President can ask for anything he/she wants, but if they don't have the congress they will get nothing.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)does have real achievements. When we think of all that he could have done to repair and advance our country, though, it is such a loss and your remedy is spot-on for the next president.
Fla Dem
(23,593 posts)Tanuki
(14,914 posts)gerrymandered redistricting has happened, along with ALEC-sponsored initiatives to erode labor rights, reproductive choice, and so much more.
Fla Dem
(23,593 posts)Big enthusiasm gap there. Expecting the president and the magical bully pulpit to do it all is unrealistic.
Hekate
(90,565 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Thank you, President Obama, for that truth.
randome
(34,845 posts)I don't see that there was that much energy outside of keyboarding for Sanders. Sure, we'd hear of a handful of on-the-street volunteers, canvassing, phone-banking, etc. But most of it was just cheering Sanders on, a Senator few barely even knew existed until he became a Democrat last year.
The 'revolution' we were told was coming leaned heavily into taking down Clinton -more keyboarding. And this despite hearing how it was only the issues that were important.
But you're right, it is and always has been changing Congress that will change the country.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
handmade34
(22,756 posts)exactly!!
treestar
(82,383 posts)Too many people act like the presidency is all that matters
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)Or even worse - the general. Thought Bernie was a great addition to this race (and before then). I hope he doesn't disappear and holds people's feet to their fire. Social change usually takes a while and Bernie is a bit ahead of his time. Let's work towards getting a congress who will work with the Dems and not be obstructionists. That is perhaps more important than the President.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)you said you are a socialist, and yet, for whatever reason, you put LGBTQ people ahead of poor people in your list.
What exactly are BOTH our concerns?
There are something like 60,000,000 Democratic voters with a variety of concerns. And it would be nice if there were even more such voters, but the more we bring in, the more different ideas we will have too.
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)Right now you might generously call me "lower middle class." Those two concerns are connected in many ways, and there's not a good way to fight for the interests of LGBTQ and poor people without fighting for the interests of both.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)It seems to me that there are plenty of ways to fight for the interests of poor people that have absolutely nothing to do with LGBTQ interests. Like
1. higher minimum wage
2. stronger safety net
3. more progressive taxes, especially at the state level.
4. more, and better, jobs
What if a person was fighting for those things?
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)But not, I would not vote for a Christofascist who said they would pay me more...just like I wouldn't vote for a Log Cabin Republican.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)"Christofascist" who says they will pay you more vs. Log Cabin Republican.
For myself, when I talk about helping the poor, I do not consider that total self interest. I do not make the minimum wage myself. I don't particularly need something like a "making work pay" credit.
Also, from my perspective, when you live in a Republican County in a Republican Congressional District in a Republican state, you are probably going to get D candidates, if they have ANY chance of being elected, who are kinda conservative in some ways.
NBachers
(17,083 posts)I know, by the tone of your post, that you have the strength to continue fighting in a way that will be significant.
Who you or I support isn't as important as our commitment, involvement, and participation.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Setsuna1972
(332 posts)When I voted here in Virginia for Hillary and that led to her big win , I was told by multiple Bernie supporters that black voters such as myself were uneducated, misinformed and maintain a slave-master mentality . And not a single Bernie supporter apologized for it --hell some here even repeated the same slur to me . So while j won't gloat over Hollarys big night, don't ask me for shit .
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)I'm sorry that other people who voted for Bernie said those things to you.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)We all heard the "AA voters are low information voters who are hostile to Sanders and the ones here are trolls who keep calling him racist and sowing division" shit and half our members have been repeatedly denied posting privileges as a result. And like you said, alot of folks here were all too happy to keep sliming our members and hiding their posts for the stupidest fucking reasons just because they dared to try to express the thinking in our communities and not just what folks here WANTED to hear.
People posting every half-literate black guy they could find on Youtube and that stupid "AA's are feeling the BERRRRRNNN!" video 52 times a month. And when black folks here said "this isn't what I hear in my hood or what a single poll has said," guess who got silenced? Was it the baiters and goaders or the actual black people who dared to try to speak from their perspective as a member of the very community that everyone was so "concerned" about??
So the idea that we all need to come together now after literally MONTHS of all of this is kind of astonishing. There is alot of bad blood to wash away first.
Number23
(24,544 posts)or article that was being posted by people who were not black? It didn't matter how half-assed or moronic the videos were, and there was no attempt to even pretend it was a "hey guys, I just came across this really cool video" situation. It was post after post after post -- mostly from the same 2-3 people -- about how black folks lerrrrv Bernie and how black Sanders supporters were going to "educate" the rest of us. There was nothing "accidental" about it. Those videos were HUNTED for so that the folks here could pretend that what many of the black posters here were saying wasn't true. And folks rushed to K&R every last fucking one of those stupid assed threads and videos too.
It was so incredibly offensive. And to see that mess day after day combined with "black people are low information voters" for months on end, I don't blame that poster one bit upthread who said "don't ask me for shit." I feel exactly the same.
Hekate
(90,565 posts)How low can they go?
Setsuna1972
(332 posts)I've read very long, long posts going into great details on how the "older black voters" have a slave-master mentality for the Clintons. There were posts which received so many K and are lecturing black people to become more informed about Bernie...trying to make me feel like I didn't know what I was doing when I voted for Hillary here in the Virginia primary . AND they literally threw people under the bus like John Lewis, Russell Simmons, even my man George Clooney got slammed . Aside from a couple of cool Bernie supporters, the main ones saying that shit never did apologize, they doubled down ! Bernie himself didn't even mention the results last night .
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)or shills with faked concerns while those accusing them- are posting bullshit from RW crazies.... Nope. Many people were being used by RW rat fuckers, and some still haven't figured it out yet.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)then have it denied. It is extremely painful. I strongly feel that Bernie made Hillary a better candidate. I am like you in reverse,
I liked Bernie, just liked Hillary a bit more. She had to face some issues that never would have come into the race if Bernie had not been there to pressure her, and hopefully that will benefit all liberals. I've always thought that Bernie's biggest misfortune was timing. If he had been running while a republican president was in office, it would have been so much easier for his revolution to take off. Dems just are not that angry right now, as most approve of the job Obama has done.
I'm sure we can work together, the energy and ideas of Bernie supporters are tremendously powerful, and fresh voices in the national dialog are not only influential, but essential. I, for one, have nothing but respect for anyone who works so hard for what they believe.
Igel
(35,282 posts)It's sometimes phrases, "Do you feel our pain?"
Sometimes it's phrased, "You're the representative of all people, not just those who elected you."
I saw very few people on DU objecting to Obama's, "Elections have consequences." Why? Because he advanced the causes and agendas of the vast majority of DU people. He was (D), we're (D). Even if we disagree on some things, on most things there's agreement, and, well, "elections have consequences."
In low-SES-speak, that translates as "Bite me" or "suck it up, loser."
When the (R) took over and flipped the script, repeating "elections have consequences," those on the losing side were all "but you represent all the people. Do you feel our pain?" All those asking that question felt was their own pain. Their pain was paramount. Otherwise, "screw you."
A few months ago we had a cat with feline leukemia. We felt her pain. We took her to the vet. We had her euthanized. We had our values, which was to respect life and minimize suffering. We felt her pain. But that didn't mean we were paralyzed or subservient. In that case, responsibility had consequences.
And, no, this isn't saying that I think Sanders' supporters should be euthanized. My point is that we can feel pain and choose to ignore our feelings in order to do what we think is proper or necessary.
When I'm on the winning side in an election, my attitude is that we should feel *their* pain. When on the losing side, my attitude is that they should feel our pain. We're one country, one citizenship, one future, and one past. I seem to be part of a vanishingly small minority.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Pain that we can actually be better, but we keep taking two steps back. And then I see posts on DU telling us Bernie supporters to leave their website!!!
Here's my thoughts on what the vote means tonight and what others must be thinking:
Ya know.... maybe the Iraq invasion was not all that bad? Maybe we can do another one?
The drug wars and imprisonment? Well, not me.
Global Warming? I live way above sea level.
As long as we fight them over there, we don't gave to fight them here. Get your kids ready to sign up.
And maybe Obama was wrong about big money influencing elections? We sure voted for the big money candidate again.
And, ya know, maybe we really don't need all that extra stuff like free education for all, hometown jobs, and a clean energy future?
___________________________
The people have spoken, dammit, all 25% of democrats and most of them said "No progress, the same old same old is fine."
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)You might find different answers and discover what people were really voting For if you simply ask them and listen intently. But with that attitude, no one will really get into it, they will simply become defensive.
Maru Kitteh
(28,325 posts)Hillary and Obama supporters were just too fractured, they hate each other - too much bad blood. Obama was going to loose because the split in the Democratic Party was too raw and too deep.
I remember very well what it felt like when it became clear Hillary would not be the nominee in 2008. It hurt, it felt so personal and so devastating. After I got done being mad, I sucked it up and put an Obama sign in my yard and started making my monthly donations to our President.
8 years later . . . . We'll be fine. It's going to be okay.
Hekate
(90,565 posts)I'm with MADem up thread -- I have no problem with Bernie Sanders.
But on this Board, where some of us have been since the beginning, HRC supporters have been hounded into a single room, and have been pursued even there. People who never had Hides before started getting them one after another, started getting Time Outs one after another. Would return and have it happen again. The grave dancing on the most recent Time Out was obscene -- two people virtually boasted that they knew that the Alert, the Hide, and the new Time Out were all bullshit. And their boasting posts still stand and my friend is still on Time Out.
In my time here I have supported Al Gore, who lost, John Kerry, who lost, and other also-rans. I supported Hillary in 2008, who lost, but was extremely pleased to cast my vote in the GE for Barack Obama, who won. I told someone this recently -- ie that both Hillary and Obama impressed me in 2008, and was told in no uncertain terms that it just proves I have no principles because HRC has always been (list your RW smear of choice).
No sooner was Obama elected than he became the biggest disappointment on the planet to a certain significant number of DUers, and those of us who admired him and were optimistic about his future found ourselves hounded to the BOG.
But even that pales in comparison to what has been going on here since last year. In a place we called home for so many years. Like the business with the GOP and the Dems, neither side here is pure, but it's not a case of "both sides do it." I have not seen a single HRC supporter call Bernie a criminal, nor say they will not vote for him. Alert stalking in to the BS Group? Not with any success, or everybody would have heard about it -- and as Skinner said, the juries are now packed 6-1 with BS supporters.
For a long time I held out hope that we DUers would all be able to work together after the primaries, but there are just too many BS folks who have painted themselves into a corner by repeating every conceivable bad story about HRC no matter the source.
>sigh<
Then there are folks like you, and I can only hope you are in the majority. Sincere Democrats, I can tell. Willing to work to see a Democrat elected, even if your personal favorite becomes an also-ran, because the stakes are so high.
Please believe me, I DO feel your pain. Senator Gene McCarthy was my choice, but I would have been so happy to vote for Bobby Kennedy. But McCarthy lost and on the same night RFK was assassinated. And we ended up with Nixon, may he rot in Hell. Over the years, very few of my early preferred candidates have made it past the primaries. It hurts, but when it's a choice between any Democrat versus what the GOP dishes out, I know where I stand.
The Perfect is the enemy of the Good -- and the stakes are incredibly high. That's not a call for a loyalty oath, that's just a fact.
See you on the hustings.
MADem
(135,425 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)...supporters here is puzzling, to say the least.
They keep claiming we have to start thinking of general election strategies.
Is pushing away 40% of your party -- during a season when turnout is already depressed among Democrats -- the way to do it?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)because they are us. But liberals will do hugs with just about anyone who wants to work together.
As for the troublesome minority that has been embarrassing Bernie's cause so badly, this forum combines people from across the political spectrum, but most of the tension and problems arise from conflicts between the two main blocks, liberals and a far-left block prone to blaming most of the nation's ills on liberals. This time around they happen to have been supporting Bernie, but it is unrealistic to think their attitude toward liberals will change just because the election season progresses. That's just the way they are, and that's the reason this forum has a rule disallowing trashing of our nominee.
villager
(26,001 posts)....from the centrists shaded to the right of me, however...
On the other hand, events in the next 10 - 20 years will decisively require working together, or will decisively unravel things further (or possibly both!)
cheers! (meant sincerely and not snarkily, btw... alas, we have to specify these days...)
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Villager, that you speak of "will decisively require working together" suggests that, no matter how far left you may be of mainstream liberal positions, you don't have extremist traits in your personality and are probably just a "stronger" liberal than me (I always test out in those little on-line things as "strong" .
Unfortunately, almost all research has been done on the far right because right-wing extremism causes so much harm, but it would be strange if, when more attention is turned to the left, we didn't find plenty of overlap between positions held by strong liberal and far left personalities, probably very fluid depending on situation -- and also various mixtures of personality traits, because we always seem to.
For instance, I've become repelled by the many demonstrations here of far left traits of absolutism, totalitarianism, ruthlessness, intolerance and devaluation of outsiders, authoritarianism, hyperpartisanship, etc., that are antithetical to both democracy and liberalism.
But just looking at his platform, I can easily imagine a situation in which I would happily support Bernie for president -- if he were the candidate who was ahead and most likely to have a successful presidency and if behaviors on the far left had not pointed up the likelihood of similar traits in him that I consider highly undesirable in a leader. I would like his tempery manner -- as long as it was displaying impatience to achieve and not intolerance of even slight wandering away from his vision.
villager
(26,001 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2016, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)
...in the candidate of their choosing, then what am I to make of the sneering, contemptuous dismissiveness of so many Hillary supporters here?
That said, growing up in a (very rare for America) far-left environment in the 60's & 70's, I have certainly seen rigidity, humorlessness, etc., among my "fellow travelers." Not too big a fan of those traits in... anyone.
On the other hand, all of them were also right about climate change, eco-collapse, economic inequity, etc...
So it might behoove us to quit collectively backpedaling to the right so much, as a political party...
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I supported HRC in 08. It was a long, tough campaign I supported her until Obama was nominated. Then I supported Obama. I was irritated at times when Obama supporters would be happy about winning a primary but I always thought he won not because his supporters were idiots or evil but because he was running a better campaign. At the end, it was clear democrats preferred Obama to Hillary. How could I be angry because democrats choose their candidate?
A handful of Hillary supporters were holding on to resentment towards Obama supporters because sometimes they did act like assholes but honestly, he ran a better campaign. So no I really felt no pain when my candidate lost. Like I told people, it's not like Hillary is my sister where I took it personally that she lost, not enough democrats wanted her to be the nominee.
LisaM
(27,794 posts)Exactly one of my candidates in a competitive primary has been the nominee (Gore). I have seen one woman even on a ticket (Ferraro). I've seen the other candidate's supporters with "Bros before hos " tshirts (2008). I have seen a "Bern the Witch" event allowed to stand on an opponent's website for 5 months and then brushed off as "he didn't know". I have proudly watched EMILY's list slog away since 1992 and celebrate 20 female senators as progress. I have heard 1000 times, "I will vote for a woman but not THAT woman". Do I feel your pain? Ummm...do you feel mine?
StevieM
(10,500 posts)But I wound up liking him a lot and now I think he has done a tremendous job as president.
Elizabeth Warren can still be president some day. She can run in 2020 if Hillary loses, or if she wins and decides to only serve one term. And she can run in 2024. Granted she will be 75, but then again 75 is the new 65.
The best think for the poor and for LGBT people is to secure the Supreme Court for a generation. We can do that by winning this election.
I hope that if Hillary wins the nomination you will give her a chance.
And I won't be surprised to learn that I like Sanders people. I have many friends voting for Bernie and I do like him.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)They'll be closing down abortion clinics if a "Democrat" tells them to do so.
Authoritarianism...it's what's for dinner.
jfern
(5,204 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)I have seen the words "cockroaches" and "crawling" used.
But the call of the "D" ain't what it used to be.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)And I know that SHE doesn't care one bit.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)But nice try making HER the victim. Praise Nancy!
Firebrand Gary
(5,044 posts)Hey Democraticwing,
First off let me say what an incredible, thoughtful post you took the time to write. Its meaningful and Im grateful that you wrote it.
Yes my friend, I do know how you feel. In 2008 I worked tirelessly, endlessly on the campaign and my candidate lost to the guy who was perceived to far more progressive than my own. I pivoted and eventually came to support then Senator Obama.
From the day he took office, I was behind him. Making calls, knocking doors for OFA Health Care Reform. Whatever was needed, I did it. I went to work on the 2010 election as well, I moved half way across the US, away from my spouse to work on a Congressional campaign. It was one of the hardest, meanest, most difficult experiences of my life.
I mean this very seriously when I say that I could have lost my life on that election cycle. I was assaulted in front of a City Hall, our campaign office was set on fire, the member of Congress I was working for had his home seriously vandalized in the am hours a month before the election. It was awful and it was dangerous.
We won that election, barely. That Congressman was one of the very few who survived the Fox News, Glenn Beck Tea Party wave. It was a horrific experience and caused me to step away from electoral politics for four years.
I was so angry and bitter from that election. We lost the House, we nearly lost the Senate. We lost a historic quantity of State Houses and Governorships. Congressional district were redrawn to benefit Republicans. We were destroyed.
I spent months after that wondering why our voters did not show up? You so eloquently said it above, This is how coalition politics works, and it's the only way the Democratic Party can ever survive. Meaning we must work together. That cycle, we were hung out to dry because our voters stayed home. Why?
The argument I still get to this very day is always something like Well if we would have gotten single payer, people would have come out. Which we both know is flawed beyond belief. We can only achieve what we have the votes to achieve
Lets remember, when Ted Kennedy died, people stayed home (before the mid term) and Scott Brown was elected to Massachusetts and we lost our 60th vote. I even remember PBO begging people to put their "tennis shoes" on and get out and knock on doors for Martha Coakley. They didn't.
Things take time, I do believe that we will get more and more progressive policies, but people have to understand that it is a process. The more Senators we have in our camp, the better the legislation is going to be. Same goes for the members of the House.
When the Judiciary is stacked full of corporatist, we know that things like Single-Payer will never survive.
My point to all of this and your elegant post is this. I do know how you feel. I wanted the other person to win in 2008, but even when she did not, I got back to work on electing democrats. Having experienced what I have over the last 8 years, I am convinced that Hillarys approach is the best strategy forward for this moment.
We save the Supreme Court by picking up the Senate, our party elects the first female President, we hold together the Obama coalition. Then we rebuild and recover our party from the systemic losses we sustained in 2010. We do that, we earn the trust of the majority of voters and we lay the groundwork for Senator Warren.
I like Bernie a lot, I think the guy is cool as hell! I also like you, I can tell by reading your post that your someone I'd get along with comfortably. Keep your head up my friend, I too have been there. Know that I respect you and will strive to do a better job of reaching out to people like yourself.
- Firebrand
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Are we welcome in this party and can we work with you in a coalition where BOTH our concerns are addressed?
The party has made the answer to this abundantly clear this campaign. Clinton has not just been inadequately supportive of progressive concerns. she has been actively hostile.
There is no overlooking the monumental betrayal of her adopting Republican attack lines against Single Payer and other social programs characterizing them as "free this and free that and free everything" and not just not politically doable at the moment but things we should not be trying to do ever.
I'm out if she's the nominee. Period. I will not contribute to the continued corruption of the Democratic Party by lending my voice in support of it.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)If Bernie loses, and he hasn't yet, then we support Hillary and work with Bernie in the Senate to reverse the horrible direction the GOP has been pushing us in visa-vi obstruction of everything decent President Obama has tried to accomplish.
Criticize Hillary when she deserves it, support her when she deserves it.
Make it clear to her that a reelection is directly dependent on her NOT being republican lite, whether she is that now or not, leave no room for confusion on that end.
And once in a while, assuming she or Bernie wins, pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself for preventing Armageddon, conservative style.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)As we were reminded today, everything pales in comparison to the Supreme Court in importance. Let's get a Left-leaning Supreme Court put in place for a generation and I'll cheer you on as you urge us to lean forward.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)is people's needs to slam the winner in our Party, not that you have.
I wanted george war bush defeated so badly and really thought Kerry would win (until bin Laden released his threat video the Friday before the election). I was in a funk for months. Even joined the Socialists Party when they seemed to sympathize with my pain.
Anyway, I sincerely hope those who feel your way will be pleasantly surprised with Clinton's actions if she wins the GE. I hope she pursues a number of Sanders' ideas, or something close to them. We are all in the this together when you get right down to it.