Hillary Clinton & Her Supporters Own This Now

[SoCalMusicLover]

If she SCREWS this up, like many Sanders supporters like myself think she inevitably will, I blame every single last Clinton supporter for the fact we will end up with President Trump, or some other wacked out contested convention nominee.

She says she has this. Her supporters say not to worry, her positives will outweigh her public opinion negatives when election time comes. Fine. I'll believe you.

But if her support mysteriously disappears, or all the African American support she obviously has does not materialize in sufficient numbers come November, I will lose all respect I had for the Clinton legacy, and that includes former President Bill.

So good luck. I sincerely hope we don't lose the White House. I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee, but I'm not going to be as enthusiastic a supporter as I would be if Bernie were the candidate.

As for optimism, I have very little. Best case scenario is more of the status quo under Clinton. Worst case....well, I don't want to even think about that.

[MaggieD]

1. No, I think Sanders supporters still "own it" too

First his campaign needs to stop smearing her with baseless innuendo, and his supporters also need to stop doing the same. Here and everywhere else.

[SoCalMusicLover]

10. So If She Loses In November, It's Bernie's Fault

Good job, I was waiting for that. Because I'm sure it won't be her fault.

[UglyGreed]

38. It is the Nader theory

but I did not expect that to be in play until Hillary loses in the GE.......

[orpupilofnature57]

52. No, it will be weak kneed Democrats fault for not voting for Bernie in the South !!!

[quickesst]

105. But if she wins...

.... and turns out to be a good or great president, I predict a lot of Bernie supporters will scatter like...cute little bugs... when the lights are turned on.

[Still In Wisconsin]

13. As a former Bernie guy... I agree.

Bernie fought hard and so did his supporters. Now, it's time to sit down, shut up, and admit defeat. I will be voting for Hillary because I am a democrat, but I am under no illusions that it is my place to contribute to the political conversation any further this election season. Hopefully Bernie will realize this soon and suspend his campaign.

It's your race, it's your convention. Congrats on a hard-fought win.

[artislife]

19. Shut up? No way

No. Way.

[Still In Wisconsin]

26. I think it's time. We lost, hard as that is to take.

This is probably how Hillary's people felt in 2008.

[artislife]

36. There are still caucuses to vote in

and liberal state and local reps to get in.

Nationally, why vote liberal on the down tickets and not at the top?

[CoffeeCat]

50. Wow, that's off-the-charts crazy to tell anyone to "shut up."

The values that Bernie and his supporters are championing will be fought for, until we get them.

A campaign finance-system that isn't corrupted by corporate money; a single-payer healthcare system; a complete stoppage of the neocon, war-based foreign policies; meaningful action on climate change; a decent minimum wage.

I will never shut up about these things. I will never stop voicing my opinion on politicians who abysmally fail on these important values and goals. I will always speak out and leverage politicians and other who champion these values and goals.

These fights began before this primary and they'll continue on.

Telling Sanders supporters to "shut up" really is a load of hubris that could sink a ship.

Elizabeth Warren espouses all of these values and I know that if she had run, she most likely would have beaten Hillary Clinton, several states ago. So, don't be so sure that our most heartfelt policy stances are dead, just because HRC has won more delegates.

[Still In Wisconsin]

60. I want all of the things you want.

But, they won and we lost...and I do NOT want President Trump.

[femmedem]

127. The more delegates Bernie has come convention time, the more he can move the platform left.

Clinton can win the nomination while still recognizing that the Bernie supporters are a large block of voters and want their platform ideas fought for, and hard.

I also think that there are a sizable number of Clinton supporters who like Bernie's ideas but for whatever reason, think Clinton is more electable or more able to advance progressive ideas. I don't agree, but I understand that reasoning.

Especially considering how popular Bernie is with independent voters, I think the more we continue to push for Bernie's ideas (which happens as we continue to advocate for Bernie), the more likely we are to avoid a President Trump.

[Doctor_J]

53. Since you are a former Sanders supporter, you're not part of the "we" that lost

And if you want to sit down and shut up, we'll be grateful

[Still In Wisconsin]

70. You are flat wrong.

I have contributed financially beyond my means. I have made many phone calls and sent many, many texts for Bernie. I have listened to my own sister calling me a "fucking bastard" for supporting Bernie.


So, yeah. We lost. WE lost. You can live in denial if you want.

[Arazi]

110. Yeah, uh huh

You're either with Big pharma, MIC, pro Wall St, pro Death penalty, pro more ME wars, pro equivocating on abortion, in support of fucking cluster bombs and coups. ..

Or you're not.

This movement goes beyond the man or you were just a poseur all along

[Still In Wisconsin]

114. All noble goals. All goals I share.

But, they won and we lost. It's done.

[Arazi]

116. Then you were never in it or you'd know its greater than one person

So yeah, cool story bro

[NurseJackie]

39. Good post. Thank you.

[Still In Wisconsin]

77. As you are an ardent Hillary supporter let me ask:

Do you think Bernie should/will be allowed to speak at the convention? My sister (Hillary volunteer/supporter) says no way.

[Tanuki]

93. I voted for Hillary, and I hope Bernie will be given a featured prime time

speaking slot at the convention. He has some great ideas.

[Still In Wisconsin]

95. I will be surprised if that happens

I am guessing an early morning slot is more likely if in fact Bernie speaks at all. There will be some price to pay for running so hard against Hillary

[Tanuki]

97. I think a public show of respect and unity would be a smart move.

She ran hard herself in 2008, so I doubt she will hold it against him.

[Still In Wisconsin]

107. Iagree that she ran very hard in 2008 BUT

Hillary and BO were so much more alike than Hit and Bernie. I think from Hillary's perspective she will need to squash what is left of our very liberal movement. We shall see

[pangaia]

44. " Now, it's time to sit down, shut up, and admit defeat"

That's what Bonaparte told Alexander.

Look how THAT turned out.

[salinsky]

64. You don't need to shut up ...

... keep advocating for your issues.

Bernie and his supporters have done yeomen's work pushing the conversation in the proper direction.

Keep doing it.

Throw your support behind the Democratic nominee, but continue to push her in the proper direction.

[Still In Wisconsin]

72. What reason does Hillary have to care what

Bernie or his supporters think about anything? There are no points for second place.

[salinsky]

94. For the sake of unity ...

... Hillary and Bernie aren't that far apart on many issues as a lot of people like to pretend.

[Still In Wisconsin]

96. Not to be an ass...

but what issue are Hillary and Bernie NOT far apart on? Really not trying to be difficult.

[Shadowflash]

128. Really?

She needs to care whether we show up at the polls if she is the nominee.

She's not winning without us and I'm not blindly throwing my support behind a substandard candidate because I need to ''get in line and shut up.''

Nope.

[Karma13612]

84. Not happening.

Bernie knows the people are emotionally and mentally invested in his campaign.

He will not quit before all the states have voted.

His whole purpose is to stir up this country.

If he wins, all the better.

As an aside, I find it interesting you would make this final statement:

It's your race, it's your convention

Isn't it yours also??

[Still In Wisconsin]

85. No it is no longer my race. I am a Bernie guy but

it is over. There are no participation trophies in politics. It's basically like the NCAA basketball tourney. When you're done you're done.

[Karma13612]

89. Fine, but there are plenty more people to vote.

When you said former Sanders supporter, I kinda thought you meant you switched sides out of preference, not because of mathematics that is being prematurely suspended.

anyway, OK, yea, it IS my convention.

I would hope you change your mind and get back into the thick of it until the convention.

[AtomicKitten]

122. Let the people vote.

[Shadowflash]

129. You are correct

If HRC is the nominee, I'm done. As are a lot of others.

[GoneFishin]

91. Fuck that.

[mythology]

112. I disagree

There is no reason for Sanders supporters to shut up. They should continue to work and advocate for the politicians and policy positions they believe in.

I don't just mean in terms of supporting Sanders, but if Sanders does lose, then I want them to find candidates at the national, state and local level to support. I want them to find other policies that they can make a difference in. If Sanders loses, it doesn't need to be seen as a defeat. Sanders has done far better than anybody expected 6 months ago. I don't want that passion to just dissipate. I want them to fight for a candidate like Russ Feingold in Wisconsin. I want them to fight at the local level for more affordable housing.

Telling them to sit down and shut up is at best not helpful and in a sense is harmful.

I have problems with both Clinton and Sanders, neither was my preferred candidate (Warren), but they both have policy positions that I like and more importantly, they both have policy positions that a lot of Democrats like. Why not say to Sanders and his supporters "hey you didn't win this time, but let's work together on things that we both believe in and learn from each other on other things.

[JonLeibowitz]

16. Uncomfortable facts are not smears. Sorry that the truth doesn't look kindly on your corrupt

candidate. Oh well.

I will continue to post interesting truths as the primary campaign proceeds.

[MaggieD]

34. What facts?

You never have anything but unsupported smears and innuendo.

[JonLeibowitz]

62. See Post #56 for an inconvenient fact which I am sure you dismiss as a smear.

[MelissaB]

17. List of "baseless innuendo":

.

[MaggieD]

32. But none of you ever have a shred of fact to back up anything

I have been reading this nonsense for months, and it is always complete bullshit that is never accompanied by a single fact. Nothing. And you all know it.

[MelissaB]

76. .

You holding up the mirror, honey?

[MaggieD]

80. No, I'm just watching you deflect and post crap you can't back up

[grasswire]

98. I thought you were on a time out.

Seven posts hidden in the past ninety days.

[72DejaVu]

79. They spent months

screaming at the top of her lungs that she is a liar, now they are deeply concerned that the public somehow got the idea she is untrustworthy.

[MaggieD]

83. Yep - as I predicted they would

I think that post where I asked if they would take responsibility for how their smears impacted the GE was my very first hide here.

[bravenak]

103. I agree.

[Kittycat]

125. No. She lost any hope of my support in 2008.

And everything I thought she would do with an ounce of power, she has done to the maximum extent. And it's terrifying. From loss of life, corruption, continued lies, etc.

But I'm so glad Bernie is still out there working hard, and plans on taking this all the way to the convention. He has my vote, my support, and my backing. This has always been Hillary's to lose.

[JonLeibowitz]

2. Her campaign told me that white berniebros who are passionate about their candidate

should be silent and ashamed to be outspoken on the issues.

Therefore she will not receive any support from me. It's her bed.

[Scootaloo]

8. They've made it very clear they neither want nor need his supporters' votes, haven't they?

[MaggieD]

37. Honestly I couldn't care less

If you think it's okay to vote for Trump or pout it out, do what you gotta do. That's what the Nader voters did. And apparently they didn't learn jack shit from it.

But that is on YOU, and in the end you will only have yourselves to blame. No one else.

[Scootaloo]

47. nader voters voted for nader, actually. That's why they're called "Nader voters."

And i'm afraid that it was the 200,000 registered democrats who voted for Bush in Florida that caused the problem, more so than the 89,000 Nader voters there.

[MaggieD]

51. Oh drop that silly canard

People don't go and change their registration from decades ago. You could use that canard to make that crossover argument in every election since the dawn of party registration. The fact is that 97K idiots voted for Nader in a swing state. No doubt for the same reasons people whine about with Hillary.

I simply do not give a crap about the threats any longer. Do whatever you want. No one cares.

[Scootaloo]

56. 200,000 democrats voted for Bush in Florida. That's the bald fact, maggieD

Stop trying to cut excuses for that fact.

[MaggieD]

82. No need to take my word for it - his own staff admits it

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

[Scootaloo]

100. 200,000 democrats voted for Bush in Florida.

The deciding factor was Democrats who thought Bush was a better candidate than Gore.

[redstateblues]

87. Nader denialism lives!

That narcissist gave us George Bush and the Iraq war. The people in FL that voted for him need to own it. Instead they quote all the other excuses.

[Scootaloo]

99. 200,000 Democrats voted for Bush

That's more than double all the people in the state who voted for Nader.

I know it's real hard for you to realize, but if anyone beyond the Florida GOP and the supreme court is to blame for 2000, it's Democratic voters in Florida.

[Coincidence]

25. Yep, I'm just a racist, misogynist Berniebro, why would they want my support? nt

[peacebird]

57. Exactly. They clearly don't want our votes. And she won't ever get mine

[eggman67]

119. I'm right there with ya.

Not in a million years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Oh don't worry

you are the new Nader supporter... and I wish I were kidding.

I find it pathetic, but hey... it is what it is. Now to do some research... on something I really dread, but needs doing and major media will not do it.

See post 1 for textbook example!

[seabeyond]

4. So what. Blame. Some prefer to do, than to sit back and blame.

[Scootaloo]

14. I plan to vote for the nominee

If that's clinton and she loses, you'll no doubt still blame me.

Oh well.

[seabeyond]

22. If you vote for a Democratic candidate, and that candidate loses, how in the world would you

interpret any kind of blame. Silly scoot. I have never been silly. A lot of stuff, but not silly. You know that. Right? You know that is a silly comment you made. And then tried to make something so silly into a fact with this.... "Oh well." It still is not fact, just some imagination thrown out there by you.

I do not get that.

[Scootaloo]

55. Because I've seen it before.

And I'm watching the ground game get set up for it this time around.

[seabeyond]

58. Not from me. So why give it to me, as if it is a concern, let alone fact?

[Scootaloo]

61. 'Course. It hasn't happened yet.

I'm predicting an outcome, not describing an occurent event.

[seabeyond]

90. Which would be my point. You treated it as an occuring event. Yes, a prediction, guess, whatever.

[Scootaloo]

101. One that I am nevertheless 100% certain of.

[seabeyond]

104. You can be a 1000% certain and no different than a guess. Lol. Which has no certainty.

ok. You can have the last word that when you vote Clinton, and when she loses, I will blame you.

I can carry that on my shoulders scoot, for you.

[Scootaloo]

108. If she loses, not when

I'm not one of the people who thinks a loss is inevitable, after all.

[seabeyond]

111. good to know, but i didnt word it that way thinking you felt it was an inevitable loss.

[Bleacher Creature]

5. If our people all vote, we win.

If people who are closer to Clinton than they are to Trump stay home or waste their vote on a protest candidate, and we lose because of that, it's on them.

Not sure why this isn't clear.

[dana_b]

81. " we lose because of that, it's on them."

Nope! You guys wanted this weak corporatist candidate with more issues surrounding her than you could shake a stick at when we have the most PROGRESSIVE and strong candidate in years - this is on YOU!!!

Not sure why this isn't clear.

[Bleacher Creature]

86. If only we knew what was good for us!

Quite the campaign slogan.

[BillZBubb]

102. What hypocritical bullshit. You are telling Bernie supporters what is good for us.

[Karma13612]

88. +10000. eom

[Samantha]

121. No, it is really not on the voter -- it is on the political party

What you are talking about is a political point of view. There is something of utmost more importance than a political viewpoint and that is a civil rights viewpoint. There are many people who will not betray their own conscience by voting for someone they perceive to be severely flawed. And if a political party opts to hold out that type of person as its nominee and people do not show up to vote for that nominee, that person is exercising his or her civil right to abstain. Civics 101.

Sam

[grossproffit]

6. A truly inspiring and uniting post.

[themaguffin]

7. what a juvenile thread. We're ONE party. Get a grip & grow up

[thereismore]

15. One party, yes, but I still retain some values. I am not in lockstep with you.

I assure you I am plenty grown up.

[themaguffin]

31. It's not about "lockstep" but it's about much more than a candidate

it's about policy and Federal and judicial appointments etc.

[grossproffit]

12. Welcome to DU!

[themaguffin]

20. Welcome to DU ScorchedEarth

[bobbobbins01]

11. Please don't be a defeatist.

The results from last night didn't go that much worse than expected. We knew we would lose FL and NC...2 were really close, but we didn't expect to win by big margins there anyway. The margins were maybe slightly bigger than expected, and actually having a win would have been nice, but numerically this is where the campaign said we'd be(and they've said this since new hampshire).

Yes, its an uphill battle going forward, but its not over, not by a longshot. I think the problem is managing expectations and keeping up momentum. The Michigan win made a lot of people get their hopes too far up too soon. The reality is we have to work harder than hell to see the change we want.

[Trust Buster]

18. Did this thread author even read Skinner's recent manifesto ?

Giving notice that Hillary supporters are now being placed on trial by a Sanders supporter goes against the very spirit of Skinner's manifesto. As if being brutally attacked by Trump over the next 6 months isn't enough.

[peace13]

21. After the primaries in 2008

Hillary refused to concede. Weeks went by and she set dates for press conferences that she failed to show up at. The Dem's were held hostage after she lost!! Here we are talking how her supporters are trying to force a canidate to concede before the race is done! I tell you, if I knew what all of that was about back then I would agree to vote for her if she is in the GE.

[Coincidence]

35. Should be a rule that calls for a Sanders concession must also address Hillary's 2008 actions. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Attention all Hillary Supporters: ANNOUNCEMENT! ANNOUNCEMENT!

SoCalMusicLover will hold it against us! You are hereby advised.

That is all.

[NurseJackie]

48. I'll try not to lose any sleep over that ...

... because, as you know, what anonymous strangers on the internet think of me are of utmost importance to me. It's going to be difficult, but I'll cope somehow.

[Fumesucker]

24. Some people feel it's the voters to blame when a candidate loses

Oddly enough those are the same ones to give all the credit to the candidate if they win.

I know people who treat God the same way, anything good happens it's God, anything bad and it's anyone but God.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. It is the same kind of magical thinking

actually

[Starry Messenger]

28. Sanders can't defeat her and she's the problem?

Okay.

[BreakfastClub]

29. Why do you have the assumption that she will "screw" this up? She

has not given you any reason to believe that, so it must be for some other reason that you think she will. Hmm.

[MaggieD]

41. No facts needed

... as usual.

[onehandle]

33. Oh noes! nt

[Peacetrain]

40. If a candidate cannot win the primary/caucus of the party they have chosen to run in

There is no way they would ever have won or will win the general.. Its a simple as that..

[Stuckinthebush]

46. Yup

Pretty damn simple.

[Kalidurga]

42. I don't blame people who support Hillary

Right wingers are so over the freaking top with how they go at her it's hard to see the legitimate concerns through them. If she is covered with Right Wing mud how are you gonna see the ugly underneath? There is one big glaring flaw in her vote for the IWR, but most people don't care about foreign policy and even fewer understand the implications. So, banging on that drum is futile. There are the things she lobbied for, bragged about that happened under her husbands administration. But we are supposed to all at once give her credit for the good things and not blame her for the bad. The media is complicit in banging on how historic it would be to have a female President, I am not impressed, but many people are impressed by this. That is their right. Her record just isn't discussed. Her ideas aren't discussed. It's all just she is the presumptive nominee and people get in line because the fear factor says if she isn't the nominee Trump wins.

[Thinkingabout]

43. Why the rush to declare "blame"?

[orpupilofnature57]

54. Or " Responsibility "

[upaloopa]

45. Simply discussing! that's what comes to mind

[NCTraveler]

49. Roger that. It's great that Clinton has your vote. Nt

[Stand and Fight]

59. Blame yourself.

If you think that you've such a large revolution and that so many people are on Sanders side, urge them to vote for Hillary rather than staying home. Those numbers combined will defeat whomever the nominee on the GOP side is. If Hillary loses, I will blame you and Sanders people for failing to stop Trump with your YUGE numbers. What good is a revolution if it quits when things get tough, packs its bags, and goes home? Right. It's no good.

[PonyUp]

67. If Trump wins I'll blame Hillary for being a crappy nominee. nt

[Stand and Fight]

68. And I'll blame BS Supporters for having a toddler level tantrum and not showing up to vote. n/t

[PonyUp]

69. I'll show up to vote, but not for a Wall Strret war monger Goldman Sachs corporatist. Nt

[Stand and Fight]

71. Congrats on aiding in electing Trump and proving my point about toddler tantrums! :P

[PonyUp]

73. Sorry, but not voting for Hillary is not a vote for tRump.

0 + 0 = 0
0 - 0 = 0

Bye now!

[Stand and Fight]

78. LOL

It is when you add up the votes. Let's break it down in programming terms...

trumpVotes = 1000
hillaryVotes = 999
ponyUpVotes = 0

if (trumpVotes > hillaryVotes) {
print("Trump wins!&quot ;
}

Rather than voting for Hillary because your candidate lost, Trump wins.

[liberal_at_heart]

113. straight to the ignore list.

[Stand and Fight]

123. The horror!

Whatever should I do with you closing your eyes tight and plugging your ears? Oh noes! To think, my every post on this board, my every activity was for your approval and attention! I am crestfallen! Crestfallen, I say! /sarcasm

[ibegurpard]

63. you actually had respect for Bill?

Or his "legacy"? Which part?

[joshcryer]

65. Will you be blaming Sanders too?

[randome]

66. Best case is her administration will surprise you.

You were wrong about Sanders winning, maybe you're wrong about her, too. I'd be the first to consider that than lashing out at those that I need to help push the candidate further to the left.

If you want to give up, that's all on you.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[PowerToThePeople]

74. Yes.

If we have a President Trump, third way democrats are completely to blame.

[AgadorSparticus]

75. It is not just the AA vote. There is also the Asian and latino votes as well.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

92. Who's saying not to worry?

I think Clinton has a better-than-even chance of beating Trump, but anyone who says not to worry at this stage is grossly overoptimistic (although not as grossly as saying that her losing is inevitable is overpessimistic).

What is the case, though, is that Clinton is likely to do better than Sanders would.

In an ideal multiverse we'd be able to run two separate realities where the Democrats nominate Clinton and Sanders, and see who does better. But we can't do that. All we can do is guess, based on the available evidence, which candidate has the better chance.

Essentially the only people who think that Sanders does are people who also thought that he was going to win the primary. That should tell you something about the reliability of their judgement when it comes to the relative strengths of the two candidates.

If Clinton loses, the sensible response will be not to blame Clinton supporters, but to acknowledge is that there was probably no-one running this cycle who could have won (depending on how much more negative campaigning they indulge in between now and then, it may be reasonable to place some of the blame on those Sanders supporters who have tried to damage Clinton's campaign, but probably not much).

[treestar]

106. The voters do

I really doubt there are enough people amongst the voters wanting to see Trump win.

[vintx]

109. I've been told more than once on this site that my vote isn't needed.

Once by someone who isn't even an American.

Glad to know I'm not needed, cause I sure as shit couldn't stomach trying to convince others to vote for someone I could never vote for.

[smiley]

115. No they don't own this...

Bernie is still in this fight. So am I. Every time I see one of these damn defeatist posts I go back to ActBlue and give another $10. I'm not giving up that easy and I hope that you don't either.

Give a BIG FU to the MSM and their establishment candidates. Trump included.

[ucrdem]

118. Thanks, I think we can handle it from here on out. nt

[msanthrope]

120. Yep. nt

[NurseJackie]

124. Proudly. Gladly. (Thank you very much!)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

126. You have respect for the Clinton legacy?

Why, with all the contrary facts and factors that always pop up?