I happen to think Trump is unelectable

[Fast Walker 52]

which means both Hillary and Bernie are very viable candidates.

In another year, both candidates might not survive their various weaknesses.

But from my perspective is that this one is one year where a real progressive anti-corporate Democratic Socialist candidate can get elected. It's quite exciting to have a real shot at getting meaningful change.

Hillary can get elected, but it will be the same shitty politics we've had for the past 24 years.

Bernie is the candidate for real progressive change.

[tazkcmo]

1. I agree and disagree

Agree: "Hillary can get elected, but it will be the same shitty politics we've had for the past 24 years."

Disagree: "I happen to think Trump is unelectable."

A HRC ticket will increase GOP turn out an will result in an avalanche of Anti-Clinton + Super Dooper Anti-Hillary votes. Just my opinion.

[marions ghost]

2. ditto

Trump IS electable. The R party will try to scrape him off, but I think it's too late. We'll see about that. They misunderestimated him and his followers.

We need the strongest candidate against him. I don't think that's Hillary.

[Fast Walker 52]

16. my thinking is that enough minorities will be freaked out by Trump to block him--

particularly Hispanics.

Plus, he's a proverbial loose cannon like Sarah Palin. It's hard to see people taking him seriously when it comes to crunch time. Unless everyone just wants to say fuck it.

[marions ghost]

20. Who's going to replace him now?

His rabid voters are going to balk at that attempt.

I think he only loses at the GE, not before. They'll try to scrape him off earlier but in the end they will go with fuck it, is my feeling. Like with Palin. Could be wrong. If he gets to the convention--it's gonna be a spectacle tho.

[Fast Walker 52]

21. I don't think they will block him at the convention and he will be the nominee

I just don't see how he holds up under the full scrutiny of a general election. He's already a national worry and joke, like Palin was.

[marions ghost]

24. OK we agree

he'll be the nominee. Yeah it'll be shitz&giggles in the run-up

What'll the non-Trump Republicans do with their Faustian moment in the voting booth. Serves em right, those Ayn Randers. My guess is they'll let the Democrats do the dirty work of excision.

Yay..........team.

[BillZBubb]

3. Trump is electable. Disregard that at your peril.

He could beat both Hillary and Bernie. A few things would have to go his way--like an economic decline before the election or a steep rise in gasoline prices. If there was a major terrorist attack, Trump would get a huge boost too. A lot of things could happen to change the dynamic.

I totally agree that Hillary can get elected and we'll get the same old, same old from her. The slide into corporate oligarchy will continue unabated.

I also totally agree that Bernie is the ONLY change candidate in this field.

[Fawke Em]

17. I agree with you on Trump.

And, if the FBI thing is still hanging over Hillary's head, she become extremely nonviable. People will see that as "establishment as usual" and be turned off.

I honestly don't see her winning. She just doesn't inspire people outside of about 50-60 percent of the Democratic Party, which is only about 30 percent of the electorate.

Trump is nuts, but that makes people like him.

We're an odd nation.

[Fast Walker 52]

22. I agree its possible, anything is possible. But it's fairly unlikely.

[marions ghost]

25. Does Trump make Bernie's

chance more likely? Two (very different!) change candidates.

[wcmagumba]

4. Trump is...

absolutely electable (unfortunately) in this country...the stupid is strong in the US.

[Cosmocat]

13. BINGO

I have a 1,000 posts saying that same exact thing.

[Doctor Jack]

27. Well then, there is only one thing left to do

[link:|

[Old Codger]

5. I don't think

That he will be the nominee,they are going to find some reason to disqualify him it will be either ryan or romney..or some other along those lines...

Their convention is going to explode..

[marions ghost]

26. How can they seriously run Ryan or Rmoney

--tRump supporters aren't going to go for them.

[morningfog]

52. They wouldn't be running Ryan or Romney to win,

Just to stop the disaster that trump is to the party.

[marions ghost]

54. OK I see

I guess. It's kind of new territory. I'm sure there are many late night backroom discussions.

[uponit7771]

38. If Trump has the numbers I support the figurative explosion at the convention

[pdsimdars]

6. I'd have to see what the most recent polls say

But for MONTHS now every poll has most of the GOP candidates beating Hillary and
Bernie beating all of the GOP candidates.
And the candidates that Hillary beats, Bernie beats them by much higher margins.
Maybe in the more recent polls Hillary might beat Trump by a point or two within the margin of error, but I think Bernie beat him by 17 or something like that.
Kind of chancy to downplay him.

[onenote]

48. If you're going to make something up, try to avoid claims that can be checked

According you "in the more recent polls Hillary might beat Trump by a point or two within the margin or error"

In fact, looking at 50 polls taken over the past 10 months, Clinton tops Trump by at least 4 points (I gave you an extra point) in over 30 of them. And as for recent polls, even with one outlier poll that shows Trump winning, the six most recent polls show Clinton with a more than 6 point edge over Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html#polls

Similarly, opposite of what you claimed, for nearly a year Clinton has been beating Cruz in head-to-head polls, with Cruz only recently polling, on average, less than a point better than Clinton, well within the margin of error.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_cruz_vs_clinton-4034.html#polls

In case you haven't noticed, Rubio, who was the strongest against Clinton (and Sanders) is done with, finished, gone, bye-bye -- rejected by the Repub voters who you seem to be convinced have one and only one desire, beating Clinton.

Yes, Bernie polls higher than Clinton in each contest, but claiming that Clinton has been losing to most of the repub candidates for months is verifiable nonsense.

[ibegurpard]

7. a lot of people who should be voting for Democrats

Don't seem to agree with you. Do you have an explanation for that disconnect?

[exboyfil]

8. External events will dictate

Another Paris in the U.S. or a couple of SoCals and Trump is your next president.

30 or more bodies laid at the feet of radical Islam would be the over/under for electing Trump/Clinton

[gollygee]

9. I agree that either will get easily elected

The fact is that many of us on DU are pretty far to the left of the US as a whole. To us, US politics might appear "shitty" because it isn't as far left as us. It's unlikely for US politics to go so far left. Bernie is (or was, whatever - not getting into that fight) a good chance at pulling things far to the left, and his popularity should make a difference as far as that goes, but really the choice when you're on the far left side of the country is between "way to the right" and "not as far to the right." Things aren't likely to get as far left as a lot of us would like, not because the candidates are outliers, but because we are.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. Under normal circumstances I'd agree about Trump. But I'd say the same of Sanders.

Last edited Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Neither Trump nor Sanders would have much chance of beating a more serious candidate.

But what would happen when the stoppable force met the movable object would be very hard to predict - we've seen elections where one party elected a candidate that far outside the mainstream (1964, 1972), but never one where both did at once.

Clinton, however, would be a clear favourite to beat Trump.

It's also worth noting that whichever Democrat wins, we'll get more of the same politics we've had for decades - the reason the Democrats haven't done much of what Sanders is promising he would do is because the Republicans have made it impossible for them, and the Republicans are almost certain to continue to control Congress and to be able to do so.

Sanders is not more virtuous than other Democrats, he's less realistic (or conceivably less honest, but I suspect he genuinely does believe in the myths he's peddling).

[Fast Walker 52]

19. I don't follow part of what you wrote

"the reason the Democrats haven't done much of what Sanders is promising he would do is not because the Republicans have made it impossible for them"-- did you mean that or did you mistype? Because it doesn't fit your next line or the rest of your post.

I actually agree with what you wrote though-- the Dems themselves are keeping ideas like what Sanders are proposing from happening because they have become more beholden to corporations.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. Edited to correct typo. Thanks. N.T.

[azurnoir]

11. Trump is unfortunately electable and made all the more so by a Clinton nomination

The pukes will IMO unite behind whoever is their nominee is to stop a Clinton presidency - that said Trump is again IMO the lessor evil because he IS a buffoon and he is hated on both sides of the aisle-he would be at best a one term POTUS and most likely hamstrung by both parties the entire time, the one to fear is Cruz -the pukes will back every syllable he utters and he is a crazy fundie nut

[onenote]

49. If stopping Clinton is the repubs raison d'être

and Rubio was by far the strongest candidate against Clinton -- why did Rubio (along with other candidates who do better in the polls against Clinton) fail so miserably with the repub electorate?

Maybe you're misreading the repub voters?

[JackRiddler]

12. I happen to think the same way.

Either candidate will win, because he is openly racist, has told 30% of the population they are scum, and also cannot win a majority of the white people.

But you can't underestimate him, or rather the Republicans and their backers - they will unite behind him. If he's not stopped before July, the Koch billion will be spent. On him.

[Fast Walker 52]

18. Right-- I don't think enough Americans will vote for an open racist like Trump for him to win

Also, I do think the PTB is against him. If the PTB do change their mind and decide to go with him, then we are fucked no matter what.

[JackRiddler]

34. Not PTB...

But a segment of PTB is going to care about only one thing: no taxes on hedge funds or rich people, no regulations on business. Koch Bros. will make the semi-mythical "Bernie Bros" look like a total love-fest as far as "irrational" RW Clinton-bashing is concerned.

[Hiraeth]

14. In 1932, some people were saying that about Hitler. I can't decide who

Last edited Sun Mar 20, 2016, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

I am more horrified by: Trump or Cruz.

I do think if the Rs mess around and nominate Kasich we will have a real battle on our hands regardless Bernie or Hillary.

[uponit7771]

39. If Trump has the numbers it doesn't matter who they select, cons will sit out

[Hiraeth]

40. Not sure I understand what you are saying but, Rs will vote in the GE. At least in my red precinct

they will. Probably at the rate of 2:1 .... just going on the voting history of my precinct, mind you.

[uponit7771]

41. nationally for cons there will be a revolt if Trump has the numbers and is sidelined. I support that

...seeing if it happened to Sanders or HRC I would think about it too

[Hiraeth]

43. Again, not sure what you are saying here but, I would not be surprised to see both parties go to

a contested convention. This has surely shaped up to be a very interesting election process and, I think, has exposed a lot of our electoral problems. I fully think both sides need some campaign/election reform.

Talk about a clusterfuck.

[shadowandblossom]

46. From what I heard

I haven't looked into him but have heard he is a real wolf in sheep's clothing too... Fun huh?

[NWCorona]

15. I've always thought so but trump continues on

Hillary, Bernie or us Dems shouldn't take anything for granted this cycle.

[jonno99]

28. I hope you're right - I fear you're wrong...nt

[PeteSelman]

29. Republicans wouldn't pass THEIR OWN ideas under Obama.

They're not going to pass anything Sanders wants and they'll maybe pass the center-right crap Clinton will want but even that is doubtful. You just can't give those jerk offs what they want. They won't accept it, they'll want to go even further to the right.

It seems the only shit that's ever allowed to pass in this country is right wing, never left, always right.

[Kip Humphrey]

30. You 'misunderestimate' the electorate... Remember "The Silent majority" & "Reagan Democrats"

(one of whom is Barack Obama)? This is a change election. The mob mentality is indeed afoot in this country once again.

[Vinca]

31. It depends on voter turnout.

If Democrats are not enthusiastic and don't bother to vote, he's definitely electable. A frightening thought.

[immoderate]

32. DANGER! -- Overestimation of American electorate! --

--imm

[onenote]

50. DANGER! -- Short memory alert

Let your mind wander back to all the times folks said that those claiming Obama could get elected president were overestimating the American electorate.

[arcane1]

33. I agree. He will never be president, and therefore the fear-mongering about him is disingenuous.

[shadowandblossom]

47. I think a lot of people feel there is a moral obligation to speak out and mean what they are saying.

Circumstances can change.

[Fast Walker 52]

35. I personally am still not convinced that Trump isn't a conspiracy to make us vote for HRC

[Jefferson23]

36. I was more concerned about Trump until the rallies became more violent and

the press is covering them more which is good.With that said, Independents still concern me,
right now there are still too many wild cards. It's too soon to guess, I think.

I agree that a Clinton administration will be stagnant at best.

If Bernie loses we will need to plan for the future, he will not
be able to run for president again.

[Fast Walker 52]

37. yes... it seems the effort to derail Trump is serious now

Agree with you about Bernie.

[EL34x4]

42. Trump is very electable which is why if he's the GOP nominee,

The Republican establishment will run a 3rd party spoiler to ensure Hillary Clinton wins.

The establishment would rather have Hillary in the White House than Donald Trump.

[Fast Walker 52]

44. mainly I think because he is too unpredictable and is not controllable

the way HRC is.

[EdwardBernays]

51. You sound like

Months of conservative and media talking heads... Trump has plateaued, Trump is fringe, Trump won't win outside of a few states, This outrageous statement will end his campaign, no wait this one will, etc etc.

Trump will easily best Clinton. And would lose handily to Bernie. All Clinton can do is sling mud and try and scare people. No one believes her "policies" and she's to the right of Trump in some cases. And fear is losing its power.

[Fast Walker 52]

56. I think he has finally plateaued and people are waking up to him finally

But don't get me wrong, I still support Bernie.

[EdwardBernays]

57. I don't actually think that at all..

his crowds aren't smaller, his fans aren't quieter, and after the St Louis thing voters in FL said it was part of the reason TO vote for him...

He also has had higher poll number against Cruz over the last few days, than ever.

[libtodeath]

53. Noting in politics is ever a sure thing.

[Fast Walker 52]

55. of course not

But I do not think Trump is a viable GE candidate, which is why the GOP is freaked out by him. He only appeals to an increasingly shrinking minority of people in this country. Polls show that.

[thesquanderer]

58. Who wins if the parties put up two "unelectable" candidates?

Based on unfavorable ratings, you could make a case that neither Trump nor Clinton are electable... but one of them will win anyway!