2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHuge Enthusiastic Mass Meeting For Hillary! Awesome! Spellbinding!
Last edited Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)
Hip! Hip! and a thunderous Hooray!!
Keep it down folks I can't hear her spellbinding oratory!
Seriously. Looks like a good place to have a little nappypo.
And Bernie's little get together with his campaign staff.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Shouldn't you be working to get out the vote for bernie or something?
Zynx
(21,328 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Wait. It's far from over.
And we'll see if Wall Street and the billionaires can buy this election.
Heads they win and tails we lose.
You probably noticed that a lot of DU'ers, not to mention tens of millions of voters, would have a problem voting for either a Republican or Democratic Wall Street funded candidate.
How about you?
Who is your favorite billionaire backed candidate for President?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)No threat to the status quo.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)riversedge
(70,023 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)Karma13612
(4,537 posts)See ya at the convention!!!
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)Not only that, but it looks like many are thinking about places they could be other than there
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)Those who think they are rolling in the dough would find it under them keeping up which such little details of funding for their selected POTUS.
Democracy is drowning in a sea of dark money
By Fred Wertheimer
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/01/16/democracy-is-drowning-in-a-sea-of-dark-money/
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,677 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,677 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Feel the beat!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)The plain fact is that she has about 2.6 million more voters supporting her.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)That's only 63.4 million more votes than she got so far!
And she'll never match Obama in the vote total.
And the bulk of her primary votes came in the conservative southern red states which she has no chance of winning in the General Election. If even Obama couldn't win those states with a huge Black population how do you think Hillary would?
Most voters, including Democrats and independents, simply don't trust her.
She lies a lot.
Sanders tells the truth.
But unlike Sanders she does have the backing of corporate and Wall Street tycoons, corporate run media, the political establishment and bought and "moderate" members of Congress that the public has learned to hate.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)She's won Florida, Ohio, and Virginia. All by a lot. Sanders has predominantly won in caucus states including states that we don't have a chance in like Nebraska and Kansas. He does best, despite his claims, when the voter turnout isn't all that big. Among broad swaths of the Democratic electorate he doesn't do that well.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Where is she going to get them from?
I'm not so sure that many people in the entire nation trust her. Do you?
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)This is what I don't understand about this argument from some Bernie supporters. I support Hillary but sanely admit it's going to be a hard fight for her to win the GE. Yet, she so far has gotten more votes than Bernie so why am I supposed to believe Sanders is a better candidate for the GE ? He's not bringing the revolution to the primary.
Now if he does manage to win the nomination, I'll support him because I'll concede that more people actually voted for him. This is about votes. Not polls, not crowd size, not donations. Right now Hillary has managed to convince more people to vote for her.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)If Obama couldn't win in the south Hillary sure can't.
riversedge
(70,023 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)riversedge
(70,023 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)me if Hillary gets it.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Democrats are about 30% of the vote. . . For some reason, Hillary supporters seem to think this represents the whole pie. It doesn't. It's the old big fish, small pond notion.
Bernie does OK with Democrats, but he wins BIG among Independents and also Republicans. For the thinking impaired, that means he does OK with 30% and much better with the other 70%. Hillary does poorly with the other 70%.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Hillary does HORRIBLY with the Independents and Republican voters. Bernie does MUCH BETTER with that 70%.
What don't you people get about this?
I guess you're too busy laughing and being smug.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Over 300 behind in delegates, and 20% behind in total. That's not a few.
Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)in the GE and therefore would be the (D) candidate.most likely to win.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)message...and it is paying off for her. You get to ask questions and hear answers other than sound bites.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Like a tea party with Cinderella in the Fairy Castle.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,552 posts)But they probably paid a lot to be there, and so didn't want to take up any valuable time with applause and cheers.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)That is definitely a Hillary hallmark--lackluster enthusiasm and small crowds.
Oh, the potential captions just sorta write themselves, don't they?
Zynx
(21,328 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Many of her supporters don't even trust her. They are lukewarm in their support for her.
This is why Bernie was able to grow his current lead--after starting with 4 percent in the very beginning. It's been easy to pick off her support.
But you are right--what counts is votes. In the end, the winner of the primary has the most votes. For that you should be commended.
However, what happens when all of this Sanders enthusiasm, volunteerism and activism is drained from the party--and Hillary is left to her own devices to try to win a GE?
If she is the nominee, I think this is where the lack of enthusiasm, lack of interest from the youth vote (the linchpin of any GE ground game and volunteer apparatus) and lukewarm supporters will really hurt her.
We've got dismal voter turnout numbers on the Dem side. The Republicans are breaking records. That's a dangerous combo. It does matter. It will matter down the line. When the other side has Fascist Trump who is amassing large, excited crowds--it's surely something to be concerned about.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)The two photos are indicative of whose campaign is really about 'bread and circus'.
Which one is about thoughtful people interested in hearing and talking about issues-
And which people are about being entertained.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Big drop off from the party ranks.
Mike__M
(1,052 posts)So we can concentrate on beating the Republican.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Hillary has no chance of winning the southern red states in November if she captures the nomination. Even Obama couldn't and she won't.
I think Hillary has the highest unfavorable and distrust ratings of any presidential candidate the Democratic Party has ever run for President.
Don't blind yourself to that hard fact of life.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)Your narrative is lacking in facts.
Also, Bernie has won those ever so winnable states of Nebraska, Kansas, and Oklahoma. We'll win Mississippi before we win those.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)If she captures the nomination and after Trump begins his massive propaganda war against the candidate with the highest unfavorable and distrust ratings in Democratic Party history?
Zynx
(21,328 posts)She has been slandered for 25 years. What good will Trump's stupid infantile name-calling do?
Sanders is the one who hasn't been on the receiving end of right-wing hate. Once he is, his negatives will spike because he's a soft supple target.
Also, nice job trying to pivot the argument from your initial lousy argument about the states Hillary has been winning. I guess you were right to abandon that argument since that was slightly weaker than a paralytic salamander.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Impedimentus
(898 posts)The enthusiasm is overwhelming !!!
FEEL THE BERN - 2016
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)And they must have had to wait for minutes in that 10 ft line.
Response to pdsimdars (Reply #14)
PonyUp This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)imagine2015
(2,054 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Why there must be dozens of enthusiastic supporters there!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)gonna take it, anymoooooore"
that's the downside of being the default candidate: you can only lose support
book_worm
(15,951 posts)imagine2015
(2,054 posts)I think they attended that $34,000 a plate Hillary fund raiser the other day.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)in a row. He hasn't accounted for any of the problems yet.
In February, the Federal Election Commission sent the Sanders campaign two letters breaking down the campaign's possible illegal and foreign contributions. Both letters - one addressing the campaign's quarterly report for the quarter ending in December and another addressing the campaign's January report point out two overriding themes in Sanders' campaign finance trouble besides for the fact that they don't seem to be able to add (in both letters, FEC noted the Sanders' campaign's problem balancing the ledger): illegal over-contributions and donations from foreign addresses not properly accounted for to confirm their US citizenship.
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/14/bernie-sanders-potentially-illegal-campaign-contributions
kristopher
(29,798 posts)You know you have problems when the best you can do against an opponent is carp on and on about standard, minor bookkeeping between a campaign and the regulators.
Oh wait, I almost forgot...
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Uh no, bad accounting, twice in fact.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)And you damned well know it. So imagine how pathetic you appear when that is all you can dredge up.
BTW, who is buying access to Hillary today?
kristopher
(29,798 posts)Can you imagine the debt she incurred to all those corporations having business before the government?
I can already hear your excuses and all I can do is shake my head and think of you typing with glee about Bernie's campaign engaging in STANDARD accounting exchanges with the FEC.
$21,648,000
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)courtesy of Hillary
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)They don't look very happy. A Hillary supporter posted a photo awhile back that showed a group shot of the Florida Black Caucus when they endorsed her and they didn't look very happy either. It's weird.
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)Anaway, at the self same moment there was a Bernie rally cross town... they want to be feelin' the Bern!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)in favor of what they think is best for their own interests.
Vinca
(50,233 posts)Those people look on the verge of tears.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)folded hands, inattention.
Response to imagine2015 (Reply #30)
PonyUp This message was self-deleted by its author.
I didn't expect this thread to be funny...
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Persondem
(1,936 posts)Response to Persondem (Reply #137)
PonyUp This message was self-deleted by its author.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Persondem
(1,936 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)came from the candidates own mouth.
Hit my funny bone, there.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)And that aside, smaller events give a candidate a better chance to connect with voters. Again, let's look at who has more votes and then decide who is more effective.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Hillary is a slightly bigger fish than Bernie in a SMALL POND.
Bernie does MUCH BETTER in the other 70% than Hillary does.
So what is your point?
Do you imagine that the GE is made up of only Democratic voters? If so, WAKE UP!
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)I'm not an idiot, I know that the general election electorate isn't made up of only Democrats, but at this point he has to win Democrats in order win the primary and so far he has lost registered Democrats in most states.
But, the point of my post was that crowds don't equal votes, they never do. Clinton is bringing voters to the polls, Sanders is not. End of discussion.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I have read many threads about how we have to win the GE, and yet they are the very people who want to have Hillary as the nominee.
If they are REALLY serious and concerned about winning the GE, then they should be campaigning for the MOST ELECTABLE candidate for the GE.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You seem to have missed Clintons little gathering in Florida on March 15th. It was 1.1 million strong.
I'm impressed by Sanders rallies and they should be recognized. But it is now fact that comparing the two in this manner is insignificant outside of the rallies themselves.
Response to imagine2015 (Original post)
PonyUp This message was self-deleted by its author.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)And considering the her massive popular vote and delegate lead, I'm pretty sure she's made the right choice.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)She is a much better speaker than she thinks she is.
senz
(11,945 posts)Her speeches must really kick butt.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)for this country during her time as FL of Arkansas and FLOTUS. The fact that she has led the life she has made her a good draw for events so she was hired to speak. Good for her.
Plus she and Bill do a lot of good with their money through the CGI and their other programs.
You can watch her last paid speech here:
Article:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/20/1372174/-At-Camp-Conference-Hillary-Addresses-Fun-Deficit-Full-Video
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)The one on one Q&A's not so much, they're Town Hall-esque and the questions a very likely hand picked (nothing wrong with that either, mind you).
The round tables you know they picked the student or the mechanic or the small business owner beforehand but the conversations they have are genuine. At most Clinton was briefed about the people before talking to them.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)I think the low key approach was chosen to go to the convention without much drama or fanfare. Obama famously cancelled rallies in 2012 because he couldn't fill stadiums, if the media wanted to they could've easily used that against him (I don't recall it happening much).
Once the general comes around she'll have to start filling big venues to energize the base. I'm not saying I don't think she will (she'll be the first woman nominee so people will want to participate just to say they were "there" and such). But there could be hiccups as the thing starts, last minute pushes to get the seats filled, potential PR blunders* from memos going out urging people to bring a friend and their friends to bring a friend, etc.
*I say blunder because the media would make any efforts to fill seats out to be an issue for her.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I would rather have more votes.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)She does MUCH WORSE than Bernie in the other 70%
Now, which is more relevant in the GE? (not a trick question)
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)to get in was an 1/64 of mile long!!!!!!
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Somehow, even that seems like an overestimate
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)I don't believe there are more than 41 people there
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)I was trying to be kind..........
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)and a greater understanding of a candidate and politics in general.
The other group will hear a canned stump speech and go away barely more informed than they came.
artislife
(9,497 posts)and thinks Monsanto is peachy?
TIA.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)perhaps because a bunch of people in a field listening to the same old stump speech by Bernie doesn't beat a candidate who actually talks to people and listens to what they are saying. That kind of campaigning seems to be working!
But I'm a Hillary supporter so I think Bernie should keep it up!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)because they are bored with his speech. . . yea, that sounds really smart, if you live in fantasy land.
But we do agree, he should DEFINITELY keep it up!!!
Walk away
(9,494 posts)it's just that most people are bored with it. For all I know, there will be people following Bernie until the day he dies. I wouldn't be surprised at all. Look at Jimmy Buffet! It defies reason!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)It is just the OPPOSITE what you are saying. YOU may think you are bored with Bernie's speech, but every day, he has new crowds in the 10s of THOUSANDS.
Do you imagine, somewhere in your thought process, that all these NEW crowds are coming because they are BORED?
You do know that makes NO SENSE. When people are BORED with something, they don't take a lot of time and put a lot of effort into going to something they don't want to see. Do you get that?
YOU may not like what Bernie says, but just because you don't, it isn't an intelligent thing to project that feeling onto everyone else. You are wrong. Why am I not surprised?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Things are so gloomy around DU lately, we need comic relief more than ever.
Hope all's well.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)If you want to talk in your thread or show more photos or anything, that would nice. Oh btw, the lady on the right who was smiling at the camera -- is that her and did you take the photo? She looked so happy, her eyes were shining. If I'm wrong, then you must have had a really happy aunt.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)There are a bunch of slides to convert to digital. I'm thinking of building some kind of box and lens system for my digital camera.
The films are another matter. Some will make interesting YouTube clips, for instance one shows donkey baseball out at China Lake in California in the mid-50s.
senz
(11,945 posts)You could see the love and happiness in her eyes. It must be nice to look at it. I hope you keep a framed copy where you can see it anytime you want. Or, I guess, on a cell phone. You can see the love. That must be nice for you.
I don't even know what a box and lens system is. Are you mechanically inclined and technical?
I don't know what donkey baseball is, either. You must feel like you're talking to a...not even sure what the politically correct term would be ... really slow person. I didn't pick up a lot of facts/data as a kid -- mainly took in impressions. Now in old age, I'm gathering factual knowledge of the world, with the help of all the good stuff on the Internet. It's fun, wish I'd done it sooner.
I know it's hard. It takes time. It's incredibly good that you loved each other.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Here is the classic way of converting from film dating back to when people were converting old home movies to video tape.
senz
(11,945 posts)It's clear the donkeys aren't very interested. Everything seems so disorganized, I'm surprised that guy scored a home run. Was kind of worried when the big guy was trying to get on a little donkey. Did you ever play it? It does look like fun, at least for the people.
Thanks for the image of the film converting gadget. I wonder how it converts images to bits and bytes? Probably sees each frame as a pattern of pixels, maps them to 0s and 1s with some sort of instructions to recompose the entirety. Or I could be way off.
Thanks for sharing them, Spitfire. Looks like you have your work cut out for you!
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)That's how the Democrats got it for a symbol.
senz
(11,945 posts)They don't deserve it. Modern day Republicans should have a predator, one that destroys and/or enslaves entire communities of other animals.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)It might even be possible to break it down into types of Republicans -- neocons, neoliberals, Tea Party, white supremacists, etc.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)nothing.
Funny, if you put all their voters in one place guess who'd have more?
brooklynite
(94,286 posts)And how many of those rally crowds actually turn out to vote?
senz
(11,945 posts)And I doubt he talks at them like a big shot or hits 'em up for money.
First, about a dozen Chippewa leaders, where they discussed topics including the often dire economic situation on reservations, poor access to health care services, and drug abuse, according to the Washington Post pool reporter at the event.
The Hibbing Daily Tribune reports Sanders then met with a group of local United Steelworkers. They discussed international trade deals (such as NAFTA and the Trans-Pacific Partnership, both of which Sanders says he is against), and how its impacting Minnesota mine workers, the pool report says.
http://bringmethenews.com/2016/02/26/sanders-addresses-hibbing-meets-with-steelworkers-and-native-american-leaders/
Good morning. My wife, Jane, he said as he greeted the group of about a dozen people seated around a conference table and began shaking hands.
We dont have a lot of time, so lets get to work, Sanders said, asking the participants to share issues impacting the Native American community. Whats good, whats not so good?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511347454
He doesn't just stand there talking himself up in front of a few high dollar donors.
brooklynite
(94,286 posts)...I'll ignore your misinformation about how they works.
Since she's ahead by 1.5 M votes and 300+ delegates, I'd say her approach is working.
senz
(11,945 posts)When people know the difference between the two candidates, they choose Bernie.
And you damn well know that.
brooklynite
(94,286 posts)And just a suggestion: "voters are too ignorant to pick my candidate" is a pretty insulting slogan.
senz
(11,945 posts)A little suggestion: don't twist and prevaricate, 'kay? Now pay attention:
No one is saying, "voters are too ignorant."
The TRUTH is: MSM is controlling voters' access to information.
So if you want to put it on the voters (which we don't) you might say, "Voters have been misled by the MSM."
You're welcome.
brooklynite
(94,286 posts)Pretty ignorant of them, right?
senz
(11,945 posts)But keep trying.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Then its fine, just ask Debbie Wasserman Schultz or Gloria Steinem.
Plus, they're going to HELL!
Muahahahahahahaha
senz
(11,945 posts)Once a week for ten years, I heard Bernie answer questions from callers on the Thom Hartmann show. His kind, thorough, considerate, thoughtful answers were what raised him in my estimation.
He likes questions and he answers them honestly and well.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)matter?
senz
(11,945 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)If so . . . . that's really funny.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)actslikeacarrot
(464 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)That is, a campfire that has been doused with water before you leave so it won't burn.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)so far in the primaries than Bernie.
That beats the crap out of all Bernie rallies combined!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)no way in hell she has that many votes. I don't know anyone who supports her.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I guess you don't know every voter in America, go figure.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Perhaps they don't like being yelled at by the great orator.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Hillary has over 2.5 million more votes then Bernie has. She has less money.
She is winning. Go figure.
FloridaBlues
(4,002 posts)That is what counts in an election
Not the size of rally's for the current runner up candidate
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Perhaps they lack the commitment.
Or she can't handle crowds.
And she doesn't know how to address the "masses".
She's is apparently very good at addressing meetings of her rich friends on Wall Street. That's why they pay her millions of bucks.
Terrific speaker!
Or maybe 10 thousand or more regular people don't want to be yelled at so they boycott her gatherings.
By the way .....
She would need another 60 million or so votes to win a General Election.
That's not going to happen.
Trump will destroy her .... on distrust and a hundred other issues.
riversedge
(70,023 posts)Karma13612
(4,537 posts)But, DARN, our candidate certainly knows how to draw a crowd doesn't he!
Woo Hoo!
Now get out there and vote people!!
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)LOL
Karma13612
(4,537 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)as you were right there. Never seen it.
Karma13612
(4,537 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)were paid to be there?
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)brooklynite
(94,286 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Someone on TV said, if the nominees are Hillary and Trump, it's hard to imagine how low turnout will be.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)"Several fives"
But oh what a depressing contest Hill/Trump would be.
Karma13612
(4,537 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I did not hear why.
Maybe because Democrats do better when turnout is higher?
senz
(11,945 posts)but what we've learned with this contest is that liberals (Bernie) do better with high turnout and conservatives (his opponent) actually prefer lower turnout. Of course that is profoundly undemocratic. Bernie is the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. I think of the other side as righties. It shocks me that they're running as Democrats; it's like a charade that everyone can see through. Everything seems topsy turvy. If Bernie doesn't win the nomination, for me it will mean the Republicans will have won, regardless of who wins the GE.
I'm glad that Bernie is running and intends to stay in for the convention, but on some level I've been grieving for my country since Reagan. Like you, I personally will be fine no matter who wins, but the country, and the world, will be a very sad place if Bernie loses. I just hope young people will be fully inspired, properly angry, able to carry on the fight and someday win.
If the other candidate ties up the nomination, I don't think I'll want to stay here (imagine the triumphalism and general obnoxiousness), but for several reasons, don't think I can relocate to the other place, either. I'll probably continue to seek intelligent online conversation. And, of course, put more energy into RL concerns and pleasures.
merrily
(45,251 posts)(I say 8 years because all incumbents have a huge advantage, especially war-time incumbent Presidents; and we are now in eternal war.)