If Bernie wasn't running, working people and the poor wouldn't have been mentioned in this campaign.

[Ken Burch]

It's a certainty that no one would be challenging the control the 1% hold over our political process.

Since race otherwise would not have been a factor, it's likely that no candidate would have made any effort to appeal to POC.

And it's pretty certain that nothing progressive, other than on a few innocuous side issues, would have been said by anyone else in the Democratic race.

HRC would have been nominated by acclimation, but on a much more conservative platform that would have reached out to and included no one.

If nothing else, that makes Bernie's campaign worthwhile...when it started, and as it continues.

[NCTraveler]

1. Blatantly false.

No offense, not even a solid effort.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. Anything negative about it ?

[NCTraveler]

7. I don't get your reply.

Not being snarky. Not sure what you are saying with respect to my comment.

[orpupilofnature57]

15. Being Snarky,, about the obvious perception management without one word of evidence to the

contrary, but You know best, why explain yourself, Your Entitled .

[NCTraveler]

18. I must be having a bad night.

Still lost.

[orpupilofnature57]

23. I believe you .

[SCantiGOP]

53. NCTraveler:

I wouldn't say the post was blatantly false; I would say it is the most unmitigated bullshit I have seen here all day.
OP has no intention of making a lucid point, but just wants to start an argument with a ridiculous premise.
Yes, poverty would have been discussed in the Democratic primary like it always is even if the mythical Mr Sanders had not graced the stage.

[Agschmid]

69. Yup.

[kath]

62. Snort.

[FreakinDJ]

10. Not even a little bit truthful

Sorry were not stupid

[NCTraveler]

14. I could really stretch....

And bullshit my way to an argument in support of their second to last paragraph. I think they should have put in enough effort to do that if they are going to promote something blatantly false on face value. At least a small effort with the spin cycle. Lol

[FreakinDJ]

43. Complete lack of Honesty

And spare us the High school Peals of Wisdom

you couldn't produce a video of Hillary discussing Income Inequality in this Election Cycle (2015 on) before Bernie

Come on

[NCTraveler]

45. How about her campaign launch.

https://m.

Your timeframe is a joke. I could give you video after video from the last decade. Not worth the time.

[Ken Burch]

11. Your candidate didn't care about workers and the poor in '08.

Or in her Senate campaign.

You can't care about workers and the poor AND support globalization and all the poorbashing of the Nineties.

[NCTraveler]

16. Blatantly false again.

Come on. I'm just asking for a little effort in your spin.

[Ken Burch]

20. She was the candidate of "hard working white people"-which was code

for appeasing white supremacy.

You can't be allied with the streets AND the suites.

[NCTraveler]

24. Let it out.

Star Member Ken Burch
11. Your candidate didn't care about workers and the poor in '08.
Or in her Senate campaign.

You can't care about workers and the poor AND support globalization and all the poorbashing of the Nineties.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Ken Burch]

32. Posting a large jpeg is not a meaningful response.

Anybody can pose with a flag.

The sad part is, she's done nothing at all to earn your support.

I will support her on lesser-evil grounds in the fall if she is nominated...but we were supposed to be able to move beyond just voting to stop the worst of the worst this year.

At this point, I'm in the only campaign still running that stands up for the powerless. And that's why we will keep going.

[NCTraveler]

36. You op is blatantly false.

Glad you like the pic. There is nothing to refute in your op. It's false on every point.

[Ken Burch]

38. If it was false, you'd have offered evidence of the fact.

There is an intrisic contradiction between supporting corporate trade deals and caring about workers and the poor. You have to stand with the streets, or the suites. It's not possible to be on the side of both.

Basically, your entire motivation was a completely unjustified anger at Bernie. He was never actually weak on standing up to institutional racism and the issues about that should have been put to rest when he put the extensive anti-racist and criminal justice positions on his platform and in his stump speech. Despite that, you attacked him on that endlessly and acted as if nothing had changed.

[NCTraveler]

40. When it's this blatant, there is no need to produce anything.

You don't get it, I don't mind this one hanging out as it is.

It's getting even better as you reply. I like Sanders.

[Ken Burch]

42. If you like Sanders, why have you spent months accusing him of not caring about racism

when you know perfectly well he has never been weak on that issue?

[NCTraveler]

44. Now you are lying about me.

That's really shitty.

[Ken Burch]

46. My recollection is that you wouldn't let it go.

And that you perpetuated the idea that there was some sort of Olympian distance between the social justice and economic justice movements(causes which, in my experience, overlap 90% of the time).

Now, you are supporting the most conservative person we could realistically have nominated(it wasn't ever going to be Webb).

It doesn't make sense.

[NCTraveler]

49. Your recollection sucks.

Just stop lying about me. You aren't going to bait me. There is a difference in economic justice and social justice. Yes I've talked about it. I've also stood up for Sanders time and time again on issues of race.

Just stop Ken.

[Ken Burch]

50. I have never said there wasn't a difference between economic justice and social justice.

But they are related, and it's not possible to achieve any significant or lasting victories for social justice without also working for economic justice.

And it doesn't serve the social justice causes to put economic justice aside for later.

They are distinct, but connected. They intersect.

You have to achieve both to fully achieve either.

And there's no good reason not to work for both. Nobody who opposes economic justice is going to be a true ally in the fight for social justice. And vice versa.

What is so threatening about admitting that both forms of justice are essential?

[NCTraveler]

51. Yes, you are lying about me.

when did I say both forms weren't essential?

Just stop with the dishonest about me.

[Ken Burch]

52. When you condemned Bernie over and over for speaking out about economic justice

And implied that that meant he didn't care about fighting institutional racism.

I haven't lied about you.

Nobody who supports economic justice is indifferent to the need to fight institutional racism. We support both forms of justice. We always did. We always will.

Nobody was advocating for an exclusively class-based politics that pretended racism was a thing of the past.

[NCTraveler]

54. you must think you are talking to someone else.

You are on a roll. Sorry, juries aren't going to hide me for calling you out as lying about me and you aren't going to bait me into going further. You are flat out lying about me. Repeat it all you want. You own it.

[Ken Burch]

55. What have I said here that wasn't true?

n/t.

[NCTraveler]

56. Damn near every single word you have stated about me has been a lie.

From the beginning. Same with your op.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251529172#post6

Really shitty what you are doing here. Try to bait me all you want. Not going to work.

[Ken Burch]

58. Why should I think HRC or M'oM would have mentioned workers and the poor

if Bernie hadn't run? HRC hadn't mentioned them or cared about them since 1978 or so(other than when she was calling people forced off the welfare rolls "deadbeats&quot .

M'oM is a decent guy, but he wasn't going to be Bobby Kennedy either.

[NCTraveler]

59. Have at it Ken.

This is on you.

Didn't like the link?

[Ken Burch]

61. I asked a legitimate question about them.

M'oM is a decent guy but way to Bernie's right. HRC is HRC...I have no idea why you would ever trust her. You know what she did in the Nineties.

[NCTraveler]

63. You repeatedly lie about me.

We both know it. You then present more blatant dishonesty and call it a legitimate question. I have been very patient.

Good night.

[Ken Burch]

66. What have I said that was untrue about you?

Did you NOT attack Bernie on race over and over?

And what have I said about HRC that is untrue?

How could a candidate who gets massive donations from corporations and large banks possibly care about working people and the poor? How could a candidate who supports things like NAFTA and TPP care about working people and the poor.

It's not possible to be with the suites AND the streets.

[Agschmid]

70. ... Well that was different.

[kath]

65. Posting large pics - it's what Tiger Beat Swooners do,

Isn't she DREAMY?!?! OMG!1!!1!

[NCTraveler]

75. Absolutely!!!! nt

[orpupilofnature57]

19. Your ruining the storybook narrative with facts .

[synergie]

34. They have repeated the in the echo chamber so often, that they truly believe this.

Also, there is a selective blindness and deafness going on, when anyone other than Bernie refers to these topics, it simply dies not register. It is almost like think Bernie is the only one ever, in all of American history to have brought up such things.

[Octafish]

71. Blatantly diverting.

No offense, you have nothing to rebut the OP in your post, other than to write that the DUer is wrong.

For the Record: laws and policies Sec. Clinton has endorsed have served to make life harder for the nation's poor and working families. Her record of fealty to Wall Street has put the needs of the wealthy over those of the middle class, let alone the poor.

Bernie Sanders, not only has spoken about doing something about income inequality, he has taken steps to insure that something gets done.

Want to see an example? Consider the Wall Street bailout of 2008: Bernie demanded the bill include an audit of how The Fed was going to distribute what the Senate was told would be "$700 billion." The final amount, we discovered several years later, is over $16 trillion.

"Socialism for the Rich," Sanders called it.

We the People would never have known how Uncle Sam printed money to bail out insolvent institutions, the ones "too big to fail" that were ripped off by the Banksters and accountant chums without Bernie Sanders.

[Armstead]

72. I tend to agree with the OP. Here is why.

1) History. Nothing Bernie Sanders has brought up is new. The concentration of wealth and power, the hollowing out of the middle class and the FU finger to the poor, the corruption of Wall St., the building of huge Monopolistic corporations, the ravages of "free trade" and the skewing of the tax system has been accelerating since the 1970's.

But most Democratic politicians either ignored or collaborated in them, and have mostly ignored them during that time. And whenever people have tried to raise them they were dismissed or insulted as "the fringe left."

They briefly surfaced during the 2008 campaign because of the crisis of the time. But as soon as possible the blame was shifted to the all-purpose villains "the republicans" -- and there was little actual follow to the structural issues that had been brought to the surface by circumstances.


2)Clinton is a prime culprit in 1). She is the epitome of Denocratic Nothingness in terms of ever addressing any large issues, otehr than the "social" ones that do niot threaten the nexus of Money and Power.

3)Clinton's strategy was to embrace Obama, and convince voters she would be Obama 2. Therefore she would be not inclined to raise issues that would undercut the better side of Obama's presidency.

[Armstead]

73. I agree with the OP. This would have been another Substance-less Democratic Campaign

1) History. Nothing Bernie Sanders has brought up is new. The concentration of wealth and power, the hollowing out of the middle class and the FU finger to the poor, the corruption of Wall St., the building of huge Monopolistic corporations, the ravages of "free trade" and the skewing of the tax system has been accelerating since the 1970's.

But most Democratic politicians either ignored or collaborated in them, and have mostly ignored them during that time. And whenever people have tried to raise them they were dismissed or insulted as "the fringe left."

They briefly surfaced during the 2008 campaign because of the crisis of the time. But as soon as possible the blame was shifted to the all-purpose villains "the republicans" -- and there was little actual follow to the structural issues that had been brought to the surface by circumstances.


2)Clinton is a prime culprit in 1). She is the epitome of Denocratic Nothingness in terms of ever addressing any large issues, otehr than the "social" ones that do niot threaten the nexus of Money and Power.

3)Clinton's strategy was to embrace Obama, and convince voters she would be Obama 2. Therefore she would be not inclined to raise issues that would undercut the better side of Obama's presidency.

[orpupilofnature57]

2. MSM = Misanthropic Sycophant Monster , only sees 1% of the people they talk to, their boss .

[seabeyond]

3. Not true. That is the Democratic platform and yes... our intent and goal. Welcome to the Democratic

Party.

[NCTraveler]

8. This. Nt

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Usurping the party won't hide the fact, She is a shill for the oligarchy, plain and simple .

[seabeyond]

13. As is Sanders. It is called a politician. One just lies about it.

[orpupilofnature57]

22. What esoteric talk is Bernie having with the 1% ? Please that's desperate logic . Everything she's

done is for the 1% and herself .

[cui bono]

25. Please provide one shred of evidence that Sanders supports oligarchy.

Just because he uses the word doesn't mean he supports it. You have to actually listen to how he uses it in a sentence.



.

[marions ghost]

26. A politician just lies about it?

[Karma13612]

48. Patently false. Complete horse$h!t.

Bernie is the definition of

"Of, by and FOR the people", the 99%.

But, you knew that.

Do you honestly think anyone buys what you're selling anymore???

[Ken Burch]

17. I've been a Democrat for decades. So are the majority of Sanders supporters.

And I remember the Nineties...a decade when workers and the poor were left totally out in the cold by this party. Every Dem who supported NAFTA then and supports TPP now has abandoned workers and the poor, of all races.

And there was never any conflict between fighting corporate power and fighting bigotry. Everyone who stood up and stand up to the 1% is also a committed opponent of all forms of institutional and grassroots bigotry.

[Agschmid]

5. Unrec, it's just not even close to accurate.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

6. they sure do seem to be worried about the middle class tho

Ive always wondered how they forget to talk about half the freakin population

[elleng]

12. Except for MO'M:

O'Malley's Plans

15 Goals to Rebuild the American Dream
https://martinomalley.com/category/15-goals/

Addiction treatment and prevention
https://martinomalley.com/policy/addiction-treatment-and-prevention/

Criminal Justice Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/

Making College Debt Free for all Americans
https://martinomalley.com/policy/make-college-debt-free/

Holding Wall Street Accountable
https://14d2r744okfe40r1ug1oqm6y-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/OMalley-Wall-Street-Reform.pdf

Expanding Social Security
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/expanding-social-security/

Homeland Security
https://martinomalley.com/vision/homeland-security/

Immigration
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/immigration/

National Service
https://martinomalley.com/national-service/

Environment
https://martinomalley.com/climate/iowa/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/agenda/

Foreign Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/truman-national-security/

Gun Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/preventing-and-reducing-gun-violence/

Trade Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/trade-policy/

Campaign Finance Reform (Restoring our American Democracy)
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/restoring-our-american-democracy/

Why We Need a Constitutional Amendment to Secure the Right to Vote:
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/news/right-to-vote/

Veterans and Military Families
https://martinomalley.com/policy/veterans/


TOO DAMN BAD he was ignored.

[NCTraveler]

27. +1 For MO'M nt

[Ken Burch]

33. The HRC people would be running just as ugly a campaign against M'oM

as they are against Bernie if he were still in the race.

They'd be accusing him of not caring about bigotry too...and it would be just as much a lie as it is when spread about Bernie.

[NCTraveler]

39. Hold on. My man M'OM has a message for you.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

Come on Ken, stop this. You are pushing something you know to be false.

[Ken Burch]

41. What am I pushing that is false?

If you favor "pro-business economics" and accept the idea(as HRC has since the late Eighties)that corporate power should essentially be allowed to set the limits of what is acceptable political debate and action in this country, there is no way that belief can co-exist with any real interest in making a decent life for working people and with wanting to help the poor out of poverty(something HRC essentially thought could be done in the Nineties by forcing people to work for McDonald's).

You've got to be on one side or another. There is no common interest between the 1% and the 99%. And that 1% is always going to have a vested interest in dividing people by race.

[orpupilofnature57]

30. I didn't and respect you for your allegiance to a brilliant man .

[elleng]

31. Thanks, orp.

[Ken Burch]

35. If Bernie hadn't run, I'd have probably backed M'oM.

He wouldn't have taken any votes Bernie didn't get, though.

[udbcrzy2]

21. The press were roped off as well

If Bernie had not of entered, she would still have the press roped off. And don't forget about those debates. You just can't make this stuff up. IF she becomes the nominee is she going to be running to the right of tRump? She's for TPP and raising the age on social security. Plus she is for fracking among many other things. Believe me, I'm not for trump or any other republican, but damn it's hard to tell the difference between them. I thought Democrats were suppose to be for the people, the little people, not the people who are corporations. I'm sticking with Bernie and if he doesn't make it, I'm asked to support someone who will be running to the right of the right. How fucked up.. It's almost like one of those scammer telephone calls you get sometimes.

[orpupilofnature57]

28. Platitudes & Poetry taught by the voice coach from Hollywood, was all she thought she would need .

[udbcrzy2]

29. Yeah! She's probably thought wrong. lol n/t

[Jitter65]

47. Making stuff up again. nt

[SidDithers]

57. 1172 to 846...nt

Sid

[Ken Burch]

60. Delegate numbers aren't a refutation.

Nobody disputes that at this point, the candidate you support is ahead.

BTW...you're Canadian...why do you even care about American politics? I doubt you'd support anyone as far to the right as HRC if they were leading a political party in your country. Even Justin Trudeau is way more progressive than her.

[kcr]

64. Yes to all of this

His running was so good for the party, good for Democrats and, most of all, good for this country, no matter what happens.

A big kick and rec from me.

[Hydra]

67. We would have called this the non-primary

Or the primary of dead silence. Hillary did her best not to talk about anything at the beginning of the primary, and only started speaking up when her upcoming candidacy was threatened.

It probably would have worked too- where else were you going to go?

[TheFarseer]

68. Not true

Hillary mentions them all the time and pretends to care. The problem is her policies continue the slow slide into the abyss for the middle class. Bernie made her pretend a little harder but sadly will have no real effect on anything when it's all said and done.

[Armstead]

74. Totally Agree. Here's why:

1) History. Nothing Bernie Sanders has brought up is new. The concentration of wealth and power, the hollowing out of the middle class and the FU finger to the poor, the corruption of Wall St., the building of huge Monopolistic corporations, the ravages of "free trade" and the skewing of the tax system has been accelerating since the 1970's.

But most Democratic politicians either ignored or collaborated in them, and have mostly avoided those subjects (except maybe taxes) during that time. And whenever people have tried to raise them they were dismissed or insulted as "the fringe left."

The truth briefly surfaced in Democratic politics during the 2008 campaign because of the crisis of the time. But as soon as possible the blame was shifted to the all-purpose villains "the republicans" -- and there was little actual follow to the structural issues that had been brought to the surface by circumstances.


2)Clinton is a prime culprit in 1). She is the epitome of Denocratic Nothingness in terms of ever addressing any large issues, otehr than the "social" ones that do niot threaten the nexus of Money and Power.

3)Clinton's strategy was to embrace Obama, and convince voters she would be Obama 2. Therefore she would be not inclined to raise issues that would undercut the better side of Obama's presidency.

[Lucinda]

76. This leads me to believe that you know nothing of Hillary's record. n/t

[Billsmile]

77. Debate Gap from Newsweek

Income inequality, the middle class, and the minimum wage aren't on the Republican agenda.

This newsweek chart shows the issues being discussed by the political parties in the debates. Seems to me that the chart concentrates on the questions asked by the moderators & leaves out points brought up during candidates' responses. So, for instance, Sanders' comment that "Congress doesn't regulate Wall St., Wall St. regulates Congress" isn't going to show up on this chart.



http://www.newsweek.com/chart-republican-debate-gop-democrate-debate-compare-416025

[Overseas]

78. Bernie has really kept the focus on economic inequality. And is given so little air time that his

need to keep the attention on the issue has then let opponents claim he's just a "one issue candidate" !

In spite of that commentary, he continues to keep the focus on this issue.

[JEB]

79. Cannon fodder is the future for young people.

That is the oligarchy's jobs program.

[undergroundpanther]

80. I never heard the word poor

Poverty,lower class,working poor mentioned.
AT ALL until Bernie brought it up. Poverty was not a sexy campaign phrase.

Lower class was not uttered from obama,not from hillary. Up to them it would be middle class this middle class that. Nevermmind they helped destroy the middle class.



It was all middle class until Bernie brought. Povery and homelessness,working poor and the disabled and our meager lives to our attention.