Please explain to me how it is a bad thing for Bernie to stay in through the convention? If Hillary

[GreenPartyVoter]

is so sure-fired to take the nomination, why does it matter if Bernie and the rest of us still want to "tilt at the windmills" on Wall Street and elsewhere? We still have something to say, so let us say it.

It can't be about saving money for the GE, because she can do that anyway, especially if she has the nomination as good as sewn up already. Don't assume that donations to Bernie would translate to donations for her any more than votes would. You don't know if his donors are in favor of her, or care strongly enough about her to part (most likely painfully) with their hard earned, much needed money.

It also can't be about not getting her public credibility damaged by Bernie before the GE, because a lifetime in politics has already put everything out there. Bernie won't put any new ideas into the heads of the RW smear machine.

So what is it that Camp Hillary is truly so concerned about? Let Bernie finish what he started. It doesn't really hurt Hillary after all, and it is giving voice to a lot of people and ideas that desperately needed to be heard. How can that be a bad thing in a Democratic Republic?

[geek tragedy]

1. so long as he attacks Trump instead of Clinton so be it.

But if he's clearly lost after the last primary voter has been counted, then he'd be making a royal fool of himself for trying to contest the convention.

[JaneyVee]

8. Was just about to say the same...

He should start campaigning against the Republican party instead of Hillary.

[MohRokTah]

32. There it is.

If you recall in 2008, after the math was clear in May, the attacks from Hillary on Obama stopped.

[geek tragedy]

34. the attacks stopped when the voting stopped.

I think she realized when she made her "hard working white people" comment that it was time to step back.

[daleanime]

151. Is it possible....

to say anything about Hillary that doesn't sound like a attack?

[geek tragedy]

153. why does he need to talk about Hillary at all? He should sell his own campaign

and talk about the issues.

[daleanime]

155. So that's a no.

Thanks for the honesty.

[HerbChestnut]

157. That's what he's been doing the whole time.

95% of his speeches are strictly on the issues, and the 5% that's dedicated to pointing out differences between him and Sec. Clinton are just that, pointing out differences. Factual statements are not attacks.

[geek tragedy]

158. blaming Hillary for the Deepwater Horizon disaster and Detroit's economic

problems are attacks.

[HerbChestnut]

160. I don't know when he said anything about the BP spill, but...

It's not a huge leap to say that supporting erroneous trade deals helped cripple the midwest's economy, particularly Detroit.

[geek tragedy]

161. Detroit was hosed before Hillary Clinton ever took elected office.

this started back in the 1970s and 1980s, and it was competition from Japan, plus gross mismanagement by the executives of the Big Three.

Bernie earned the coveted "Four Pinocchios" for his attempt to blame Clinton for Deepwater Horizon

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/14/did-hillary-clinton-cast-a-vote-that-led-to-the-bp-tragedy-in-the-gulf-of-mexico/

[HerbChestnut]

168. I don't give a **** what the WP has to say

They've proven themselves to be as biased as Fox News this election cycle. As for Detroit, there is no way you can say with a straight face that the 4ish major trade deals passed in the last 20 years actually helped that city.

[Orsino]

169. There's no requirement for an armistice...

...and certainly none for unilateral disarmament.

Why should either candidate put off answering t ought questions/charges?

[firebrand80]

2. I don't really care how long he stays in

But I do think people that still believe he can win the nomination are deluding themselves.

[SHRED]

3. As long as Bernie is in it helps the Democratic Party

More airtime.

Neither Hillary nor Bernie get much play at all anyway with tRump getting most.

Having a back and forth between Bernie and Hillary at least draws some media attention.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Good point!

[Empowerer]

28. But if that additional airtime is used to bash Hillary, not Trump, it's just free advertising for

the Republicans.

[SHRED]

5. He will stay in because...

...should he not get the nomination he will still have lots of delegates and therefore a big say in the party platform and direction come convention time.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Is that what they are so afraid of? That he will somehow damage the party platform?

[hack89]

9. Our concern is that he will continue to attack Hillary instead of pushing his message

we have no problem with him staying into the convention with the understanding that the time to keep attacking Hillary and doing political damage to her has passed. He can play a positive role in the campaign - he is a honorable man so that is what I suspect he will do.

[TCJ70]

10. As long as the primary isn't over, he should contrast himself with Hillary...

...that's what a primary is for. Choosing between the candidates. The problem is whenever the Sanders camp brings up her record, or something she factually did, it's viewed as some kind of attack. Compare that with what Clinton did with the auto-bailout issue and the question of who is running the positive campaign becomes very clear.

[hack89]

13. We will soon reach the point where he has no reasonable path to the nomination

that is the point where he needs to change. When a majority of voters decides it is over for him, the backlash will be enormous if he is perceived as deliberately trying to damage Hillary's chances in the GE.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Backlash by whom against what exactly? You still haven't clearly explained how he can hurt her or

her chances. Once the convention is over, it's over. There will be months yet to fight the good fight for the GE. Hillary will be fine. Let Bernie's backers come to the convention and help shape the platform. It may help to keep people engaged in the political process!

[hack89]

21. So any damage Bernie does to Hillary in the primary magically disappears?

Bernie can have a role at the convention - if he is seen as being supportive of Hillary. Because that is what the convention is all about - putting a Dem in the White House. Bernie can't be slinging shit up to the last second and then expect to be welcomed. That is not how it works.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. Specific charges would be helpful, here. What shit slinging? If you mean things like

the GS speeches, that's a legitimate query that plays into the question of influence. A candidate can say she is going to be tough on Wall Street, but if they are giving her money and we don't know why, that looks a bit iffy. My opinion is she should have put the speeches out there the first time and just made them old news by the time the GE rolled around.

[hack89]

31. He should push his message with no mention of Hillary

once Hillary is a lock for the nomination. There is no point in it short of trying to politically damage her. Why would he want to do that once it is clear she will be the nominee? No one benefits except Trump.

[Fawke Em]

25. Meh - most of the damage done to her has been from herself.

Flip-flopping, holding many Republican positions, a lack excitement about her - all hers to own.

[hack89]

33. And Bernie can damage his image if he is not careful

he says he is a Democrat - he will be expected to act like one and do no damage to the Democratic nominee.

[GreenPartyVoter]

148. And Hillary would do the same for him, right?

[hack89]

149. If he was the nominee, yes.

but that is not likely to happen.

[SHRED]

27. What "damage" can Bernie do?

He doesn't lie about her and the Repubs all ready know about her.

[hack89]

37. Supporting RW attacks against her will not be well received

especially when there no point in attacking her further. He says he is a Democrat and not a carpet bagger - he will be expected to act like a Democrat and fall in line to support the nominee to put a Dem in the White House.

[SHRED]

46. Specifically

What "RW attacks" has he done to her?
I'm not trying argue here I'm trying to understand what an "attack" is compared to what a legitimate criticism is; in a Hillary supporters view.

[hack89]

49. Why the need to even criticize her once it is clear she will be the nominee?

what purpose would it serve if our goal is to put a Dem in the White House?

[RANGERMAN89]

55. Hahah

This guy dances around this question every time he is asked it I guess he knows deep down that Hillary is wrong on almost every issue bernie contrast with her and the only one telling bold faced lies on the issues is Hillary.

[peacebird]

127. Really, you used carpet bagger? You do remember that's what Hillary was called when she moved to NY

Right?

[Politicalboi]

131. They're NOT right wing attacks

It's showing HER record. It's her fault it's slimy no one else is to blame. Besides the FBI is still in an ongoing investigation. Again ALL her doing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

39. If he's telling the truth, any damage is HER fault.

If his statements about her are truthful, then I expect him to make them. If that damages Hillary politically, too bad. Not everyone buys into the "winning is everything" mantra. "Where's the duty to what's right?"

Everybody wants to live in a lie
But why should we delude ourselves?
It's not as if we can't see something's wrong
Where's the duty to what's right?

[hack89]

41. Propping up RW attacks will not go over well

once it is clear he will not win the nomination. Why can't he campaign on a positive note highlighting his ideas and policies? At some point he has to endorse and support Clinton.

[Lizzie Poppet]

44. Telling the truth is a "RW attack" now?

What a steaming, fly-specked load.

[hack89]

50. When only the repukes will benefit it has to make one wonder why he would do it.

it will be clear very soon that he has no chance to win. He will have to decide whose side he is really on.

[Lizzie Poppet]

54. Again, it's not only about winning and simple dichotomies.

That said Bernie will probably stop pointing out negatives about Hillary once she's the nominee. That won't suddenly make the prior statements false.

[hack89]

58. Yes it is - putting a Democrat in the White House is all that it is about. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

60. To (some) Democrats, sure.

But certainly not to me...

[hack89]

63. I suspect you have sufficient privilege to prosper in a Trump presidency

many of your fellow Americans are not so fortunate.

[Lizzie Poppet]

64. Nice false dichotomy! Any other fallacies in the pipeline I should know about?

And you probably have at least as much privilege going for you...not that that's even a remotely valid argument.

[hack89]

65. You don't seem too concerned about a Trump presidency. Why is that? nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

66. Because that's your own, entirely fabricated internal construction, that's why.

I have no insight into whatever fantasies you concoct about my views. And even less concern over them...

Nice job of deflection, though...I'll hand you that. Bye, now...

[hack89]

68. You are a Democrat so I will assume the best about you

and your intentions. You are passionate about Bernie but will make the right choice when the GE comes around.

Peace.

[Lizzie Poppet]

70. I am nothing of the sort, actually. I'm an independent progressive.

(well actually, I AM technically a Democrat right this instant: switched my registration to vote for Bernie in my state's closed primary)

I had been planning to vote for Hillary if (and only if) my state ended up in play...which it won't. I'll probably still do that, for all that her supporters here (you definitely excluded) seem bound and determined to prevent that with their condescending asshattery. More likely outcome is that I'll leave the presidential slot blank and just vote the downballot. Can't think of a single case this year where that won't be for a Democrat. Although a lot of the races will be non-partisan (Portland city council/mayor positions, etc.)...

[hack89]

71. It's your vote. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

72. Yeah...and it annoys me no end that it will be meaningless, even if I cast it.

I despise the Electoral College...

[hack89]

73. As a voter in a small state, I like the electoral college nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

74. I'm in a small state, too (7 electors). I hate it.

If we directly elected presidents, my vote would be worth seeking. As it is, because I'm in a small state that's not in play, no candidate has any reason to seek my vote. I've never bought the explanation that the EC somehow makes small (non-swing) states more relevant...it just doesn't make sense.

The presidency is a national office, theoretically completely non-partisan in terms of state borders. That's rubbish, of course...but it's the ideal. We should elect presidents as Americans, not denizens of our particular states.

[Politicalboi]

132. Better to open those wounds now

Than the GOP, and we will for sure lose. You think keeping this stuff back is better? The GOP is just waiting to attack. They will bring out all her shit, and by then it will be too late for Bernie if he drops out too soon. You may be fine defending her for 4 years, I on the other hand am tired of them and their scandals. I think he needs to talk more about her faults and soon before it's really too late. All he has to do is tell the truth about her.

[hack89]

146. It is too late for Bernie now

so Bernie needs to decide if he is going to help put a Democrat in the White House or not.

[peacebird]

129. Anything not fluffing Hillary up as a saint is a "RW attack".

Truth be damned.

[tularetom]

53. The longer Sanders stays in the race, the longer she will have to pretend to be a Democrat

If he stays in through the convention, he may be able to influence the platform to the point where her weasel room is severely limited.

[hack89]

57. He is not a fool nor an idiot so it is unlikely he will follow your advice

he will know when it is over - he will not do anything to tarnish his image even if it means disappointing people like you.

[tularetom]

67. He isn't likely to do anything that will disappoint "people like me"

Unlike the Clintonbots, it isn't a cult of personality on this side. It isn't Sanders, its the policies he advocates.

The thing that disappoints people like me is the lack of understanding on the part of people like you.

[hack89]

69. So when he endorses and campaigns for Hillary you will approve? Good. nt

[CrispyQ]

133. Because the voters in the states that haven't voted yet don't deserve a choice.

If she's such a great candidate, she shouldn't be worried. But she's not, so she is.

[GreenPartyVoter]

144. Finish the primaries! Everyone should get to vote!

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Hence the point of point 3. He can't damage her. She is a well known politician. It's all already

out there.

[hack89]

15. So he has every incentive to campaign on a positive message

so as to not tarnish what he has accomplished so far.

[KPN]

59. Seems to me that he has to contrast himself

and his positions with Hillary's. After all, isn't that what the primary is about?

The problem is Hillarians see this as an attack against her. That's their and her problem imo.

Her record is a deficit for her whether Bernie talks abouit it or the GOP -- and they will. Don't kid yourselves.

This is exactly why I think Bernie is a safer candidate for the Dems in the GE. The GOP will directly attack her shifting positions/flip-flop character

[hack89]

62. Once he has no chance of winning then he needs to shift to a positive message

and we are very close to that point. Many argue we have already passed it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Oh boy you think Sanders has been negative with her?

LMAO... I can't wait for Trump. Sanders has run a very positive and clean campaign. I know you don't see it. I cannot wait for Trump. Those will be epic.

Serious, if you guys are screaming now, I cannot wait for the gnashing of teeth with trump, And yes, as much as the Rs want to stop him, he will be the nominee.

I need to buy that popcorn by the bucketful, should be fun.

[hack89]

85. Hillary can handled Trump

he is unhinged and will find a way to self destruct. Besides - we expect an epic clash with our enemies. We don't appreciate so called allies helping them out.

The issue with Bernie is simple - at some point he will have to endorse and campaign for Hillary. That is what Democrats do for each other. There is no point in him helping Trump. And he knows it - he is an honorable man that will make the right choice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. LMAO

i wish this was funnier

I will leave you be. Thanks for the laugh though 

[hack89]

87. So you don't think Bernie will endorse Hillary? Why is that? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Please do not put words in my mouth, ok

I think it is hysterical that you think Bernie has run a negative campaign and that she will handle trump.

By the way, this reflects on your real fears, not the HRC or Sanders campaign.

It is hysterical.

I will let you be.

But here is a pro tip, like HRC, Bernie will stay in beyond mathematical for this silly thing called delegate count and party convention party plank. The fact that this has to be explained is kind of ludicrous.

[hack89]

90. Bernie supporters are really bad political prognosticators

as seen on this forum over the past three months. They have been consistently wrong in their predictions - wrong, wrong, wrong. So there is no reason to believe you have it right this time around.

It is going to be ugly here when reality finally settles in. Bernie will figure it out well before any of you will.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. I will correct you

I am an independent voter. Who I vote for is my business. The only reason we are covering the Sanders campaign coming to San Diego is because it is news. Here is a news flash for you. RSD moved to general election coverage already.

Unless there is something major in May tea leaves are there that it may, there will be no brokered conventions. Trump and Clinton are winning their respective nominations


Here is another pro tip, your party still needs the pesky left to win a GE. This transformation is not over oh and Trump will be an extremely tough opponent in the GE.

You think Sanders ran a dirty campaign. Oh boy, she will learn what is dirty by the end of it and wish for Sanders. And so will you.

[hack89]

95. I never said Bernie ran a dirty campaign - he is an extremely honorable man

I said that he soon will have to change his campaign style to stop attacking Hillary (which is not dirty in and of itself) and run a positive policy based campaign highlighting what he stands for without mentioning Hillary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. There is the problem

He is not attacking. If you thnk those are attacks... Oh boy. I will have to stock up on a truck load of popcorn.

[hack89]

98. ok. nt

[KPN]

150. blah blah blah

[Jim Lane]

92. Bingo! The Clinton people are acting as if Bernie is calling for her to be indicted over the emails

They use the indiscriminate term "attack" to cover everything from issue discussion to calls for her indictment.

Bernie's "attacks" would help the Republicans if he were saying things that they would pick up on -- but he isn't. The Republican nominee is not going to attack Clinton for voting for the Iraq War Resolution or the like.

[whatchamacallit]

79. Why stay in if not to win?

"Battle ready" Hillary will have to deal with a challenge.

[hack89]

81. The point will soon come when he has no chance to win

it can be argued that that point has already come. Once it is clear that Sanders has no chance of winning, there is nothing to be gained by him attacking Hillary.

[k8conant]

156. That point comes after June 7 nt

[hack89]

159. Not really

history certainly says otherwise. NY will be the nail in his coffin.

[k8conant]

163. History is then. Now is now.

No nail. No coffin

[hack89]

166. Time will tell. nt

[TCJ70]

7. The common theme this season is that his candidacy moved her left...

...which I've heard even the Hillary people think is a good thing (but I question that if they wouldn't just vote for the guy who's already there). Do Hillary supporters not want her to move more left? Is the left a bad thing now?

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Personally, I think he moved the dialogue left, not her. Her supporters have

nothing to fear there. I am positive that as a strong woman who knows her own mind, she can't be moved in any direction without her say so.

[TCJ70]

17. Definitely...

...I'm not saying I agree with the narrative. I don't. Her record speaks for itself where she comes from and what she'll be about should she end up with the WH.

[Fawke Em]

26. Right, which is why she's likely to lose to the Republican nominee.

The direction she heads isn't what half the base wants.

They'll likely become like you - Green Party voters.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. I'm actually a Dem now. Hell froze over for me when Bernie signed on to run. LOL

[Recursion]

12. If he's getting face-to-faces and phone numbers I want him to stay in as long as possible

We need a lot more of that.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. Agreed!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

16. His staying in is a good thing, my dear GreenPartyVoter!

Your points are all valid.

Don't let the Hillary folk get you down!

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Thanks, NursePeggy! They aren't getting me down. I am just trying to help lessen

their fear of/annoyance at Bernie and his supporters. We need to look at the big picture beyond this election. People need to feel heard to even want to be engaged in the political process, and it's only going to help the party and the country if we don't shut them down.

[seabeyond]

22. Goal, intent is tear apart our candidate, tear apart the Democratic Party. You don't get the harm?

[Zira]

116. Many aren't voting for Hillary no matter what because their conscience prevents it.

Last edited Mon Mar 21, 2016, 08:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie doesn't have that problem. WHO is tearing up the dem party? The woman who can't get elected no matter what because double digits of her own party refuse to vote for her no matter what(so says the Washington Post) or the guy who's bringing independents into the party to vote for a democrat - you know the guy with 85% of the college students.

Hillary is tearing up the party. People are leaving it because she's in it.

It's that little Kissenger bent she had as Secretary of state that Clinton supporters either won't talk about or try to re-write history (including her biography) on.

[seabeyond]

130. Do you think I give a shit about those that are willing to let women and girls die... because they

did not get what they want? Because more people, more Democrats want Clinton, I am suppose to coddle these people willing to let girls and women die? What world is that?

[Zira]

138. Coddle what people? What are you talking about?

Last I checked, both Democratic candidates support abortion rights. If you cared about women and girl's lives you probably shouldn't be voting Clinton. Perhaps you only care about American women and girl's lives? You seem to be skipping Clinton's record as secretary of state when you support her saying she cares about women and girls rights. I'd say after her stopping the Syrian peace agreement she doesn't care about childrens lives either. I think she cared more about a Saudi arms deal.

[seabeyond]

142. This is just sick, and is the stuff that makes me walk from Du. You are the one that brought

up the argument that many won't vote for Clinton. Ergo, the loss of women and girls lives. BUT..... Accuse others of cheering on the killing of kids, though you cannot bother to vote Dem, to protect women and girls lives. I made the comment on what YOU said, not some made up, talking point, meme argument.

[VulgarPoet]

165. Nice affirmation of the consequent.

Jesus Christ on a pogo-sticking cross, your logical fallacies are worth a migraine and a half.

Hillary isn't the only one who supports safe abortions, and as a matter of fact, she only in the past few years flipped on that particular stance. Much like she flipped on the Iraq War, much like she flipped on support for LGBT+ people, much like she flipped on regulating banks-- #whichhillary didn't come out of nowhere! Fortunately for me, since I can't condone more than 20% of what Hillary's done thus far, Bernie and Dr. Stein both support abortion-- Dr. Stein in particular since 2001, which is the earliest quote on women's reproductive rights that I can find on her part.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Jill_Stein.htm

I agree with every single thing here. So explain to me again why I should vote for 20% instead of 100%. Explain to me again why I'm wrong-- this time, without the logical fallacies and ineffectual shitslinging.

[seabeyond]

167. And your pogo stick, migraine insults stops me reading instantly.

[Fawke Em]

24. It's not.

The establishment knows the next few contests are going to be good for Bernie and will give him momentum as we head into delegate-rich states like PA, NY and CA.

If news about the FBI investigation starts leaking as they get closer to a conclusion, that momentum and a concerned Democratic base could stream toward Bernie, knocking the Queen from her pedestal.

I truly believe this is the ONLY reason these bought-and-paid-for Hillary shills are kvetching about his continued run at this point.

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. You could be right!

[djean111]

29. I believe the newest meme is that Bernie should stay in the race - BUT be actually campaigning

against Trump, on behalf of Hillary. Sort of herd those new enthusiastic voters into the Hillary chute. Don't run against Hillary any more, but use his popularity and money to pretty much campaign for Hillary.

Fuck that shit, is the best and nicest thing I can say to that.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. So many memes, my head is spinning from them all!

[geek tragedy]

38. Sanders has dropped a lot of of his attacks on Clinton, if you haven't noticed

he will increasingly find that he will have a smaller audience for attacks on Clinton than for attacks on Trump.

Especially since there won't be anymore debates.

[k8conant]

162. Sanders should be actually campaigning against Trump on behalf of himself and us.

Don't run against Hillary, but run as the strong progressive he is.

[Agnosticsherbet]

40. Well, it is a boon for the Political-Industrial Complex.

People will donate money, and it will be spent to no purpose, funneling vast amounts of money to media professionals an media corporations.

THE POLITICAL-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. Yep. We desperately need publicly financed elections.

[Agnosticsherbet]

47. Not going to happen in our lifetime.

It would require a change in the Constitution.

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. Which would require a vastly different Congress.

[shadowandblossom]

109. There's an option available apparently

they spoke about it during the msnbc debate in NH (I think) unfortunately they both agreed it's antiquated and isn't usable if you want to win right now.

[GreenPartyVoter]

110. It is a wreck as it stands now. Before his passing, my Dad planned to run for our state

Legislature as a Green. He looked into the public financing, but said he could get in terrible trouble if he screwed up his bookkeeping in any way, so opted not to use it. You would need a team of very adept campaign assistants to stay on top of stuff like that, and it was just him working on his own at that point.

[Trajan]

42. Bernie and his supporters should completely disregard Hillary supporters

They have an agenda that includes deception and misdirection ... Ignore that nonsense and trudge forward until Bernie says he is done ...

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. Most days I do exactly that, especially when the forum is particularly fractious.

[AgadorSparticus]

45. Agreed. I think it is great that Bernie stays in through convention.

Like you said, it gives the disenfranchised faction a platform to be heard which is vital to the democratic party moving forward as a whole. And that is more important to me.

I also think having both nominees in play lessens the impact of Trump's negative attacks on the other. If they were smart the mud slinging would not be directed at each other. It should always be directed at the REAL enemy: Trump.

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. Yes, we need to keep Trump out of there, but honestly I shudder at the thought of any Repub winning!

[lunamagica]

56. I don't care how long he stays, as long as the negativity towards Hillary stops. He sould stay

to push his issues, not to weaken Hillary for the GE.

[GreenPartyVoter]

61. If he lets up on her and she lurches to the right,

I want him to hold her feet to the fire. I think it's a good thing to keep the political dialogue as far left as we can during the primary. We need to be different from Trump et al, not show how we are the same.

[MisterP]

75. because it's a full democracy, and like in Honduras sometimes a country

can get too democratic

[GreenPartyVoter]

96. Well, I am not sure what you mean by 'full' democracy or 'too democratic.' I was

up wicked late and my brain seems to be running on low power. LOL Can you help me out here?

[MisterP]

100. in a full democracy candidates run to win rather than to build up a following

and then hand it over to the designated successor; Clinton saw too much democracy when Zelaya wanted a nonbinding and thus legal referendum on a constitutional assembly

[GreenPartyVoter]

103. OK, I am following you now, thanks!

[Kip Humphrey]

76. It is simple (as with most things): They are deathly afraid that Hillary will lose.

[GreenPartyVoter]

120. It could be!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. Because Bernie has spoken about the contents of her baggage car and will continue to do so.

[GreenPartyVoter]

135. They don't seem to like that, but it's not like the Repubs won't, and it will be far worse

than anything Bernie says.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

140. Naw. Trump is known for his gentlemanly ways and will politely overlook her "mistakes".

Their debates will be more like exercises in bowing and hand kissing while politely discussing bi-partisanship.

[GreenPartyVoter]

141. Yes, he is so charming and all!

[Thinkingabout]

78. If Bernie is trying to influence the platform, why do we not hear how he wants to change the

platform rather than the same story he tells day after day. What happened to talking about the issues? Issues will be on the platform, not talking points.

[GreenPartyVoter]

82. Those "talking points" are about the issues, and it seems like

somebody wants to hear them. My guess is they are like me and find that Bernie speaks for them, which underscores the importance of him staying in through the Convention. My bet is you will hear those same points brought up when the platform is discussed there.

[Thinkingabout]

91. We may see the same talking points, I doubt the DNC is going to go for Medicare for All

for one issue, will probably go with Hillary's stand to improve ACA, doubt they will adopt college for all but some modified plan of student loan refinance and community services to offset college tuition and certainly not to kids of the 1%. It may depend on Sanders allegiance to electing a Democrat, hopefully it will be more than his efforts fund raising for down ticket candidates.

[GreenPartyVoter]

94. He says she is better than the Repubs and won't run as an Indy. My guess is that at the end of the

convention, he will show the support you are looking for.

[ibegurpard]

80. They have this deluded notion

That all the people who are unhappy with the direction of the party are just going to fall in line behind Hillary and Bernie is the only obstacle. When you don't have any substantive policy reasons for supporting someone it can be difficult to understand the motivations of someone who does.

[GreenPartyVoter]

111. Very true!

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Bernie is staying for delegate counts

and the rest of us would like to vote as well. (regardless of who we vote for in the primary)

Somehow the hard core HRC fans are against democracy for some odd reason

[GreenPartyVoter]

134. Yes, would be nice to finish voting first!

[KPN]

152. Yup. Sure seems that way.

[senz]

88. Beautiful OP. K & R

Reasonable and pleasant. Thank you!

[GreenPartyVoter]

108. Thank you so much! That was my aim!

[ThePhilosopher04]

99. Bad candidates don't like being exposed

[GreenPartyVoter]

112. Well, this is true, but I am sure most of her supporters don't see her that way.

[Dem2]

101. He should stay in!

He's helping Democrats in many ways, I say he stays in as long as he can.

[GreenPartyVoter]

137. I think so, too!

[blm]

102. I think he should stay in and stay focused on exposing the power of the financial elites.

.

[GreenPartyVoter]

139. Agreed!

[stopbush]

104. The fact is that we could be using the time we have right now to show the country

a unity platform that would stand in stark contrast to the Rs and the chaos that has engulfed their party.

Sure, Bernie can stay in it to the convention, but all that does is allow the MSM the opening to go to their "both sides do it" false equivalencies. Bernie pointing out minor differences with Hill is translated into "while the Rs are fighting for the soul of their party, Ds have their own problems with the continuing battle between Clinton and Sanders."

Trust me, that's what the narrative will be. The MSM will use their "balanced" view that "both sides do it" to excuse away the worst coming out of the Rs. They will look high and low to find the "equivalent" story on the left. Could be that the "Bernie or bust" movement is the same as the "Stop Trump" movement.

It's sad, because we have it within our grasp to put a totally different narrative out there RIGHT NOW. Bernie fought the good fight, but he's lost. Why not pivot to being an effective surrogate for Hillary and the down-ticket Ds? Doing so would enhance his future in the Senate, something that fighting to the bitter end will not do. The biggest challenge the Ds have this election is flipping the Bernie zealots to vote for Hillary. In this, Bernie is probably not only the best advocate, but the only advocate who has a chance of converting their anger into electoral action.

Or, we can play politicians-as-usual and continue the downhill slog of a candidate who can't win until the convention or until the money runs out.

[GreenPartyVoter]

106. Let's say we do that. How, exactly, do you a) expect to get Hillary elected, and b) get her

to make good on whatever ideas of Bernie's she says she will adopt?

Right now I think you will find a lot of Bernie voters just don't trust her to follow through, and many of them think she will fare poorly in the GE if for no other reason than due to the insanity of the RW hate for her. I think that a dialogue would have to be opened first to address those concerns. (Although for the record, I should state that I myself am not ready to try your plan. Still want to see how Bernie does for a while, and still want him at the convention for the platform. )

[stopbush]

114. First of all, Hillary is under no obligation whatsoever to adopt Bernie's ideas,

just as Bernie is under no obligation to adopt Hillary's ideas. The person that wins the nomination gets to run on their policies. The policies of the person who lost were rejected by a majority of voters. End of story.

As a Hillary supporter, the last thing I want to see is Hillary adopting Bernie's voodoo-economic plans for healthcare. Hillary owes it to her supporters to stick with the sound progressive policies she has put forward.

As far as how she'll do in the GE, she leads Trump by a comfortable margin. Not as large as Bernie's lead, but what's the difference if you beat him by 20 points or 23 points, really? Also, roughly 25% of R women are inclined to vote for Hillary against Trump. Hillary also wins millennials by a wide margin over Trump. Trump needs to get close to 40% of the black vote to have any chance, and that won't happen.

Add it all up and the question isn't whether Hillary wins the GE (she will), it's the length of her coattails. It's those coattails Bernie should be thinking about these days, because that's where he can help the most.

[GreenPartyVoter]

115. So the "unity platform" thing threw me. That's where I got the idea that maybe you meant Hillary

would take on some of his ideas. Not sure that you are selling anything that would interest many Bernie voters, though? Would have to get to the point where he has no chance whatsoever before I would even consider what you are talking about, and even then I would be voting against the Repub and not for her anyway.

And I fear that Trump may do better than we think. So many times he should have self-destructed by now, and he hasn't!

[stopbush]

117. The unity platform is in response to the chaos platform being exhibited by the Rs.

Bernie says he and Hillary agree on many things. That's where you find unity. The D Party is a big party with a big tent. There are many ideas in that tent, but each candidate runs on the ideas they believe in most strongly.

There need not be 100% agreement for there to be unity, unless you're a purest, which means you're ultimately a loser.

[GreenPartyVoter]

118. Why not have Hillary endorse Bernie, then?

[stopbush]

119. Why? She's killing him.

She may as well endorse O'Malley.

[GreenPartyVoter]

121. Maybe he will endorse her at the convention if he loses? That should suffice, yes?

[GreenPartyVoter]

128. So glad I wasn't eating when I read that!

[jwirr]

105. In the past about the only time that a candidate went to the

without a challenger was when the candidate was incumbent. The first vote was often very close and there were times when there were more than a couple votes. This did not hurt the winner UNLESS they had alienated the other candidates voters to the point that they wanted nothing to do with the winner.

[GreenPartyVoter]

107. Good point!

[John Poet]

113. Maybe they worry that Bernie will dump a bucket of Hondurans' blood on her

(so to speak) forcing the media to discuss Hillary's role in the Honduras right-wing coup, and its consequences to the people of Honduras.

I wish he would.

There's a lot of blood flowing down there, thanks in part to Hillary.

[GreenPartyVoter]

136. Could be!

[GreenPartyVoter]

123. So you disagree with my post, then. Got it.

[Zira]

124. It's not. And she can't win the GE because a lot of her own party won't vote for her.

He needs to stay. If we have a candidate at all that win it will be Bernie.

[GreenPartyVoter]

143. I think so too.

[corbettkroehler]

145. In 1992, Bill Didn't Secure The Nomination Until June

In 2008, Hillary stayed in until every avenue of victory was closed.

[GreenPartyVoter]

147. Excellent points, and great graphics!

[polichick]

154. Perhaps they're running out of dirty tricks.

[One of the 99]

164. It's not.

It's a good thing.