2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forummetroins
(2,550 posts)Everybody loves a spoiler.
Posts like these are...Je ne sais quoi.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)
Beowulf
(761 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)That's why we have taxes...to fund things that are in the best interests of the public. A debt-free, educated populace is, to my mind, in the public interest.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 5, 2016, 03:38 PM - Edit history (1)
college.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...Bernie does not use those words. He talks about tuition-free public colleges and universities.
He also specifies exactly how it will be paid for, by a transaction tax on Wall Street's high-speed trading. This is all outlined on his site, including a pdf that gets into some of the gnarly details.
I assume that a man who has been the ranking member of the Budget Committee might, just maybe, know a thing or two about how things are funded.
I am so, so weary of the lies that people spout so freely. NO ONE THINKS IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PAID FOR; THE QUESTION IS, WHO SHOULD PAY FOR IT? There, is that a little more CLEAR FOR YOU?????????
eridani
(51,907 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...because that is the policy that he supports and will fight for. He funds it with a transaction tax on Wall Street, a proven technique that is already being used in a few other countries.
If the idea of tuition free public colleges and universities is attractive to people, why is that a bad thing? I guess you must be one of those who think it's fine that we in the USA can't have nice thing like other countries ALREADY HAVE, such as universal health care and tuition free public colleges and universities. Too many wars to pay for, and we might need (!) another one...
You apparently think the young people who might benefit directly are the only ones who like this idea. Well this old gal won't benefit directly at all but I am ALL FOR IT.
Do you think that a politician who is running for office should downplay their attractive ideas? I guess you won't be advising any campaigns any time soon!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)College will help give those kids the tools to help strike out on their own instead of becoming wage slaves enriching the pockets of the ultra-rich who are major investors in companies like Dupont, General Electric and others.
I want more tech companies et others creating revolutionary things, creating new jobs, mitigating the DAMAGE these ultra mergers have done by firing god knows how many people to enrich a small set of the investor class.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)The Clinton's will get something done: Sanders free promises are empty:
he is a talker and he has never delivered.
dr60omg
(283 posts)Sanders does not make empty promises did you ever read into the transformation of Burlington?
How about some of the legislation he has passed? How about being consistent over time?
And how about those Pell Grants? In 1994 destroying one of the few lifelines for prisoners to change their life by going to school? https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/pell-grants-prisoners-new-bill-restores-hope-reinstating-college-programs/
The Clintons have continued in the efforts to privatize education and transform public education into a neoliberal model
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Including having money in the budget for colleges.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)Bernie's proposal for tuition-free public colleges and universities appeals to young people who might benefit from it. Gasp!!
How dare he use the word "free" to describe something that will, in fact, be free to students. Why can't he be honest with them and level with them that those poor, struggling Wall Street firms will be the ones actually paying for it!
How dare he even propose something that other advanced nations already do, and that we already did in the past at least in some states like California.
At this point your insistence on trying to make this some awful thing that Bernie is doing, simply makes me laugh out loud, it is so ludicrous.
The most basic difference, as I see it, between Bernie and Hillary is this: he has bold ideas, she has timid ideas. He will do big things, she will tinker around the edges.
"What you can do or think you can, begin it; for boldness has genius, power and magic in it". --Goethe
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)if they do people like you and most GOP will jump all over it.
Our taxes pay for education, always have.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)He has said it over and over: your the one not kowning what you are
talking about
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)HC is free access via taxes, if you are doing it right.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Sounds like FREE COLLEGE to me.
You have to live somewhere, if you're going to college or not. Just because he's not paying for your dorm room or your contribution to the household bills in mom's basement, doesn't mean that education--the "tuition" part -- isn't touted as being free.
It will NEVER happen. Congress will not do it. They might make it very affordable, though. One day.
It won't help all those kids in that crowd, though.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Dem's are workers: they are for a mix economy: not
for free handouts:
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)coyote
(1,561 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)and the GOP are doing everything to destroy public schools:
its crazy to suggest that there are any votes for free college
for everyone in the Senate or the country : Sanders promises
are fraudulent.
People who go to college can tell the difference between their and there - and you're judging.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)think
(11,641 posts)while they struggle with the soaring cost of college tuition in America.
squirecam
(2,706 posts)You know college is already free.
https://www.navy.com/joining/college-options.html
Unless you want free college for nothing......
think
(11,641 posts)while they squirrel away their money in foreign havens to avoid taxes?
So what's your point?
College is free if you join the armed services.
Smedley's views notwithstanding, its a good deal.
think
(11,641 posts)to send our men and women to war we should be willing to make sure they are taken care of when they return.
And yes, the American people should make sure anyone who works hard to go to college should be able to go and not have to mortgage their life in order to do so.
Sanders would put a small tax on stock transactions to make sure college is affordable. Right now high frequency traders are basically taxing these stock trades already by skimming a cut while adding no value to the system other than to line their own pockets.
I'd rather see these trades be taxed; albeit a little higher than the skimmers but still just a fractional amount; and have that money used to ensure Americans can get an education they can afford to obtain.
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Agree 1000% as to taking care of our vets.
But you haven't really addressed/keep ignoring my point.
College is already free to those willing to serve. It has been that way for decades.
You can study what you want and gain valuable skills + a paycheck.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:28 PM - Edit history (1)
WE PAID FOR IT IN WAYS YOU CANNOT IMAGINE.
(INSERT MULTIPLE DECRIPTIVE EXPELTIVES HERE)
Fucking "free"
Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)SCREW YOU.
I'll tell my husband when he gets up that his college was free. I'm sure he would take that really well, considering his hearing loss from heavy artillery, but he'll have to put in his ear appliances first.
squirecam
(2,706 posts)His service (which I thank him for) and his injury (which I am sorry for) does not change the facts nor the point I was making.
He, in fact, could go to college paid for by the government.
There is a pathway for those who cannot pay for college. It involves service, and obviously some risks.
As for your personal attack, out of deference to those who have served I will not respond in kind.
Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)Or loved someone who served. Welcome to ignore.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)You lose.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)college to be passed into law?
I suppose it might.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Same here.
Some of us rightly see it as keeping the US competitive with the rest of the 'developed' world.
And also understand how expensive college tuition furthers class divide and/or creates a class of people who become more or less indentured servants to the people who own the banks.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)into the stereotypes of young people wanting "free stuff".
Very sad for the ever-popular meme.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Hillary may be able to get into a bill more affordable college:
and she will have to get votes from Dem's
Sanders has never passed a bill: he only amends things
Sanders has no accomplishments in the Senate, he is
hot air.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...ass.
-none
(1,884 posts)With a grid locked Republican Congress, that is the only way to get anything done. It stops the worst of the bad bills Republicans keep trying to pass.
Your post contains more hot air than Sanders.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)piratized. People here who defend gouging people for college are selfish assholes with Republican leanings.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)pathetic, lame-ass excuses for why no services should ever, ever go back to average Americans to improve their lives. Everything is designed to keep Americans stretched so thin that they don't have enough money to do anything without borrowing the money and paying interest to the banks.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)'Free stuff' and 'wanting unicorns'
I'm SO tired of hearing these things when someone suggests that we put programs in place that will bring the U.S. up to the level of all the other civilized, first-world countries.
These things are done all over the globe. It's not really that difficult. We give Israel Millions of dollars a year and they have universal healthcare. If it's SO hard let's keep that money here and do it ourselves. It can't be that difficult if we are paying OTHER countries to do it.
Of course, if we keep electing officials that say 'No we can't' before they are even elected, this shit will never get done.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Don't tell me it can't be done!
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)A work friend of mine moved from Utah to CA to get a free education in the late '80s.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)We used to have free college, back when we really were #1 in the world. California had free college until Reagan didn't like it and started charging. It was Thomas Jefferson who started the first land grant colleges. It's an AMERICAN tradition.
Great way for the USA to fall behind when we don't offer college and others do.
We didn't used to offer high school a long time ago.
You sure seem to want the country to fail!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)The point is it creates a more dynamic workforce so that young people can work on what they are passionate about rather than be tied down with mountains of debt.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Paid for by taxes? My god! I've never heard of such a concept!
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)obamneycare
(40 posts)[img][/img]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/bernie-sanders-democratic-party-us-election-2016-dominance-among-young-voters-chart-a6938911.html
...
Consider, for a moment, what that means for the future of American politics.
[img][/img]
http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/age_structure.html
Let's play out some very foreseeable hypotheticals. Four to eight more years of an incrementalist approach (that is constantly blocked by an obstructionist Congress) fails to bring these "free college" freeloaders the relief that they seek. Continued failure to address widening inequality or its structural causes (globalization and automation), or the corrupt political system that keeps it in place, further animates this demographic, whose political identities were formed around Bernie Sanders' 2016 presidential campaign. Four to eight years of aging and experience with the political system transforms this under-30 demographic into an under-34 and an under-38 demographic, that is better-equipped to register to vote and turnout for elections. Four to eight years of aging sees the thinning out of the baby boomer generation (in 2020 and 2024, U.S. Life expectancy will be about 79.5-80 years of age), that has so reliably turned out for Hillary Clinton in these primaries.
... What then, is the future for this Third Way/DLC Democratic Party? How will it be sustained?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Go! Be great, BSers. This IS your big chance to refuse to be marginalized as always. Go be a Party!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Not a big idea
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)you are wrong anyway. People like me don't villainize others just because they are opponents. That would be dishonest and dishonorable. I have two viable candidates I can vote for.
Notably -- that is because I have not turned one of them into an imaginary boogieman who threatens me from under the bed every night.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)are foolishly worrying themselves over imaginary disasters and helping the bad guys by trying to take out for them one of the only two good choices for leaders we have.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...maybe when Bernie gets elected, you should avail yourself of some of that "free college" so you can learn to write in complete, proper sentences -- you know, grammar and stuff. If you can meet the admissions requirements. But you're probably one of those people who thinks "free college" means not only do you not have to pay tuition, but you don't have to meet any requirements either. That's what "free" means, right? AMIRITE???
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)On Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:02 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
I hope most Hillary supporters are more literate than you appear to be...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1562891
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
What a thoroughly nasty, insulting post. It's posts like this that give some supporters a bad rep for the obnoxious way they condescend to people who simply disagree with them. I hope the jury does the right thing here, this post is nothing but a lengthy insult.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:13 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Personal attack.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster to which the reply is pointed has been trolling the site consistently and poorly and has additionally racked up 8 hides on their transparency page. As such, I am inclined to let this post stand.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: First class asshattery. Hide it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I know poor Lewebley can't help being borderline illiterate, but he/she/it has never had a single honest post, so I don't have too much sympathy!!
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...that was a close one!
Not that I'm too worried about hides. After all, we've all got amnesty, right? Right??
Well these days I have decided to dish it out. Tired of watching it dished out by so many people with thin skins who can dish it out all day long, but can't take a single post that dishes it back at them.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Spirochete
(5,264 posts)going heavily into debt is important. As you are obviously of such advanced intellect, you don't need college, other people need an education, and not all are well-off enough to afford it.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Obama is doing a good job as well: and he has brought back most
of the economy:
Its the GOP that crash the country with lower taxes on the rich
and a 3 trillion dollar war.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)Bill's reversal of FDR's Glass-Steagall Banking Act led to the too big to fail crash 10 years later. Wall Street screwed the nation, got bailed out by our tax $$$ and suffered no consequences. And guess who owns the Clintons!
BTW, when FDR bailed out the banks, he nationalized them. We paid, we owned! Not so with our modern republicrats.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Peace and a fantastic economy: Bushed crash everything:
deregulation was done by the GOP: They pulled the cops
out of the SEC to their friends could be rich off tax payers.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)poverty thanks to Bill's welfare reform and HRC's aye vote on Bush's bankruptcy bill
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)back into poverty and debt.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)Ended poverty blah, blah, blah. Koolaid, anyone?!
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)successful in History.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)I was actually a staunch Clinton supporter until I realized that while we were distracted by all the investigations and trumped up scandals, Bill's policies (DLC policies) screwed us. Namely: NAFTA, Telecommunications Act, Welfare Deform, reversal of Glass-Steagall.
TrueDemVA
(250 posts)I use to defend Clinton until the damage from his administration's policies started taking affect. It hurts. Unfortunately, the Clinton's are looking out for corporations, not us. Hillare has changed her opinions so many times, it is difficult to believe what she says. I think this primary has done something special. It has brought out the real issues that people care about and gives hope for our future. Thank you Bernie for waking us up! Bernie is the only Democrat running!
dr60omg
(283 posts)And that is just the beginning .... where do you get your history from?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)like yourself: The Clintons left office with the country in the black:
everything after was Bushes and GOP work.
Bush could have move to protect investors and home buyers: he
and GOP people believed that the market would fixed everything
they were wrong: as they always are!
Its only Thom Hartman and left wing talk show listeners that push
the idea the Glass-Stegall was central to anything.
What was central to the crash is that Dem did not come out an vote: and
the GOP took-over: Hoover crash, Reagan SL crash, Bush 1st 58,000
factories sent over seas: Bush 2nd crash the economy and again because
huge taxes cuts and deregulation.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Did Bill Clinton hire all those people himself?
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...as can be seen here:
http://www.cbpp.org/research/budget-deal-makes-permanent-82-percent-of-president-bushs-tax-cuts
"Budget Deal Makes Permanent 82 Percent of President Bushs Tax Cuts"
His hands are not clean in that regard.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)That is why they call them" Budget Deals"
Sanders would have been taken to the Cleaner: he has never
been able to lead the Senate or make a deals that his party
could get done.
Sanders is an empty suit: but a nice old man: who has ideas like
most Dem's but he is just a talker.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)..."Its the GOP that crash the country with lower taxes on the rich and a 3 trillion dollar war."
(I will point out that grammatically, it should have been "It's" and "crashed"
Although I do not disagree with that remark, I did point out that Obama kept the great bulk of the tax cuts and made them permanent. You can talk all you want about how that happened, but it's still something that he did as President. Part of the record. "The buck stops here" and all that.
You of course have no idea how it would have worked out with Sanders as President; neither do I. So let's save the hypotheticals.
And finally, you just can't help yourself, you denigrate and insult Senator Sanders. "empty suit" "nice old man" (WTF?) "just a talker". You say volumes about yourself here, none of it good.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)The other 99, meh.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)It shamefully dishonest : If Hillary were doing this she would be roasted
pinebox
(5,761 posts)That makes 2 today who are obvious Ron Paul supporters. I wonder how many more there are on DU?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Sorry but aren't a Dem. Not by a long shot. Not when you spout off Rand Paul talking points.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Obama is the leader of the liberals party, the Dem party:
Dem party will never evolve into a socialist party.
Sanders and you are not Dem's: So it's you that have
to evolve in to more open minded views.
Obama and other Dem's have wide open tent: ideologues
are not Dem's or liberals.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)at how you cite Obama and yet side with Hillary.
You call us ideologues? I call us progressives who believe that corporate Dems are THEE problem. See, it's like this; Republicans will always be against progressives but Dems have moved so far right that Reagan now fits under their banner. Remember that battle cry? "Reagan would be a Dem by today's standards!".
The ONLY reason we can't get shit done is because of people like Hillary & her supporters are truly scared of change and are comfortable with the status quo and therefor defend it.
Please, enough with your party purity bullshit.
Issues & people > any political party.
Obama and Dems have a wide open tent? Sure, like it was so open when Hillary made her recent comments about abortion. It's open for those who are rich and are ties to Wall Street & Walmart. See the 89 Dems who voted to gut SNAP.
That's my story & I'm sticking to it.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Lorien
(31,935 posts)lewebley3? How many more for-profit prisons? How many more economic meltdowns? How much economic injustice IS ENOUGH FOR YOU? Do you want us to look like China, be paid like China, have China's air??? WAKE UP!!! The "status quo" you defend is KILLING US and the planet!
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)And how many are on order?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_in_service
Seems like 10 with 3 more on the way.
A bunch named after Republican Presidents lately.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)(I just know they speak foreign, they're saying something bad about me! )
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You must have been ... you just didn't want me to know ... so you were speak foreign! That what you guys always do!
{ETA: I've had 100s of these conversations with folks complaining about people speaking their native (or acquired) tongue in the workplace.}
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)to listen, patiently, then ask: "What makes you think they are talking about you? What have you done to them to make them want to talk bad about you?"
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Beowulf
(761 posts)to protect its privilege with the elites. Bernie supporters say we don't want that any more. So we get accused of being spoilers. Riiiiight! Sorry, I'm not enabling this kind of corruption any more.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)You are not that important..
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)To hear this kind of arrogance and elitism from a Hillary supporter, who don't care HOW she wins, only that she wins. This is exactly how Hillary responds to the FDR liberal Democratic base, so it is no wonder we hear it mimicked from her supporters.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)because more people are voting for her. No one is cheating. I don't understand your thought process. Bernie won UT and ID by big margins aren't you happy about that.
frylock
(34,825 posts)See you in November.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...you may get your wish and the Democratic party will be rid of us annoying Sanders supporters / dirty hippies.
That of course will mean a Republican victory.
Well be careful what you wish for.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)to be gone, but if you want to leave then see you later. You acting as if someone stole your bicycle. Hillary is qualified, period.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Bernie's talking points about Hillary's judgement. When it was time for him to make tough decisions he failed-gun control, bailout, crime bill, etc. He will not save the day because he does not know how to. Same talking points at all his rallies , he is out of his league. Now he is going back on how it disliked the super delegates now he wants them. Bernie is just talking a different language and not walking it. Super Tuesday she crushed him. The Democratic voters did that.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Hillary has awful judgement. All it takes is one single Google or YouTube search. From Iraq to Saudi weapon deals to emails to running 3am racist ads against Obama to Honduras to Syria. You can push your agenda all you want for the 1% and the corporate candidate that Hillary is and bring up stuff which is downright hilarious but it doesn't change the fact of the things below.
So let's debunk you right this second.
Are you aware that Hillary flip flopped on the issue and ran to the right of Obama on the issue and catered to the NRA and it's voters? Of course you aren't. And while you sit here and praise your candidate and slam Bernie, your candidate is holding fundraisers with NRA lobbyists https://theintercept.com/2016/03/01/nra-lobbyist-will-co-host-clinton-fundraiser/ So please don't give us that shit about gun control.
Bailout.
Clinton and Sanders were both in the Senate at the time, and contrary to what Clinton implied Sunday, both supported the idea of an auto bailout.
Sanders argued that letting the auto industry go under was too big of a risk for middle-class workers -- it could lower wages across all sectors of the economy and have a ripple effect on states like Vermont that were fairly far removed from the auto industry. He was quoted by Vermont Public Radio at the time as saying:
The problem is if you don't act in the midst of a growing recession, what does it mean to create a situation where millions of more people become unemployed? And that could spread, and I have serious concerns about that. I think it would be a terrible idea to add millions more to the unemployment rolls.
But Sanders was vehemently against the larger $700 billion bailout to prop up the banks. (As evidenced by his presidential campaign, Sanders is no fan of Wall Street.) So he voted against the bank bailout.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/07/the-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-debate-over-the-auto-bailout-explained/
Crime bill.
Hillary Clinton and the Tragic Politics of Crime
The criminal-justice policies she now denounces once helped her husband capture the White House.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/the-tragic-politics-of-crime/392114/
To those who see Hillarys new crime agenda as a flip-flop, her campaign has a rejoinder: Different policies make sense at different times. As Clinton spokesperson Jesse Ferguson tweeted, HRC policy on internet might also be different than WJC policy in 1994. Not b/c he was wrong but b/c times change.
The problem with this argument is that many of the crime policies the Clintons supported in the 1990s were probably wrong even back then. Yes, the crime bill did some good: It put more cops on the street and increased penalties for sex crimes. But it also helped spawn the very era of mass incarceration that Hillary now denounces. Its not just that the bill allocated almost $10 billion in federal-prison construction money. It only allocated it to states that adopted truth-in-sentencing laws that dramatically increased the amount of time criminals served. As NYU Law Schools Brennan Center has noted, the number of states with such laws rose from five when the bill was signed to 29 by Clintons last year in office. Over the course of Clintons presidency, the number of Americans in prison rose almost 60 percent.
I can write you out a laundry list of how Hillary has bad judgement.
You say Bernie is out of his league but tell us, who's currently under 2 investigations? WHo doesn't support a living wage? Who acts like a Neocon at AIPAC when they give us speeches? Who think the Reagan's were awesome in AIDS research and who was against DOMA and supported KXL, TPP, DADT and who has sold fracking around the world and supported arctic drilling?
Nope that wasn't Bernie. That was your candidate, Hillary.
It is what it is and you can't defend it other than "It's Hillary's turn!"
You're being made a mark and manipulated. Wake up.
metroins
(2,550 posts)The Republican SOS set the rules and ran the PPE.
I'm all for fighting the Arizona voter suppression; you can't blame the DNC for it.
Beowulf
(761 posts)This entire process has been tainted from the beginning.
metroins
(2,550 posts)We need to fight on a local level to vote in competent Democratic state leadership.
Why on gods earth we still have Caucuses, non-early voting or non-same-day registration is beyond me.
I understand open vs. closed primaries. There are crossover spoilers in local elections.
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)Beowulf
(761 posts)It's everywhere you look.
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)Beowulf
(761 posts)I made it all up. I made up the pressure the Clintons put on DNC members and super-delegates for their support by threatening their funding sources. I made up lobbyists being super-delegates. I made up Clinton Foundation grants to influential minorities who then just happen to give Hillary full-throated endorsements. I made up the irregularities in Iowa and Nevada caucuses. I made up Bill strolling into polling places to campaign and blocking the entrance to hold a campaign rally. I made up Hillary as SoS trading arms sales for generous donations to the Foundation. I made up the hiring of smear-artist David Brock. I made up DWS limiting the number of debates and scheduling other debates during times when few people were available to view. I made up DWS waiving the rule not to accept donations from corporations to the DNC. I made up Hillary softening the ruling that Swiss Banks had to give up the names of their customers who may be evading US taxes in exchange for donations to the foundation and hiring Bill for millions of dollars to give speeches. I made up DWS sponsoring legislation to ease the rules on payday lending. And most of all, I've made up the Democratic Party selling its soul to Corporate America.
Go back to your nap.
TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)metroins
(2,550 posts)When you (not you, the OP) start talking spoilers.....
Well welcome to your new leader.
tldr on your article.
basselope
(2,565 posts)metroins
(2,550 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)People completely fail to understand the game Trump is playing and how weak Clinton is as a candidate in the general election.
It's like they have never seen politics before.
metroins
(2,550 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)Right now both Clinton and Trump are doing the same thing... saying WHATEVER it is they have to say in order to win their primary.
BOTH, believing they have sealed up their nomination have begun their tack to the center. Clinton with her deplorable speech at AIPAC, Trump with his greater focus on being anti-free trade agreements and against the Iraq War vote, not having a Super-Pac, etc.
It is a LONG way until November, and rhetoric said during primaries is pretty quickly forgotten... so Trump has the ability to completely reinvent himself during the next 6-7 months. Clinton; however, is already defined. She has a very difficult record to run away from.
You've already seen glimmers of how Trump handles this stuff and it just rolls off him. When the GOP tries to attack his hypocrisy on outsourcing his answer. "Well, I'm was a businessman and as a businessman, I had to do everything possible to maximize my profits, so OF COURSE I took advantage of the free trade agreements." And most people nod their heads and say.. "yeah, makes sense". So in a general election, his rhetoric will soften, he will still blame many of our problems on illegal immigrants, but the message will be softer, praising the "good ones". When people point out the softening of his rhetoric, he will simply explain the difference between winning a primary and the general election and people will nod their heads and say... "yeah, makes sense".
With 76% of the country thinking we are on the WRONG TRACK, people are desperate for the "system" to be shaken up. This is why Obama bled 10MM votes from 2008 to 2012. Luckily for him the GOP bled 3MM or he would have lost... but the trend is clear from 2010 and 2014. When given a chance to "Shake things up".. THOSE people turn out. When voting for business as usual.. those people stay home.
Right now there are far too many honestly trying to decide between Bernie and Trump b/c they are close on the big issues that are important to them.. Free Trade agreements, Super Pacs and a corrupt political system and the Iraq War. But either way, Bernie and Trump represent the SHAKE IT UP vote... the vote that will ACTUALLY change things. Everything they THOUGHT they were getting in 2008, but turned out to be just another center right politician.
So the game... is Trump will be choosing Kasich as his VP to keep the establishment happy and if you think Kasich won't accept, just think about Reagan/Bush and how bush had to change from being pro-life to pro-choice and give up on the entire concept of that "Voodoo economics" thing to unite the party. With Kasich as his VP.. Trump will suddenly seem plausible.. not as frightening, but will still represent the best chance we have a major political shakeup, which is what the MAJORITY of people want.
Clinton will choose Castro in some desperate attempt to win a demographic they are already going to win from a state she has no chance of competing in.
GOP turnout will be motivated by the Trump fanatics and the compromise he made choosing Kasich. Democratic turnout will be depressed even further than 2012 by the lackluster candidate.
Trump will easily win Ohio and Florida and from there it will be President Trump.
I have NEVER in 30+ years of watching and studying politics gotten a presidential election prediction wrong and this one is the easiest to see of all.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Lorien
(31,935 posts)I'm seeing hundreds of Independents turned Dems for Bernie saying that they'll switch to Trump to "punish" the DNC for election fraud (funny how it ALWAYS favors Hillary). Good going guys; your cheerleading for election theft just cost you any hope of the Presidency!
metroins
(2,550 posts)Hillary and the DNC do not control how Arizona runs their primaries.
I'm just as upset as you are.
basselope
(2,565 posts)If their issue is Super Pacs, Free Trade or the Iraq War, both candidates appear to be on the same side. They want, above ALL ELSE, an outsider.. non establishment person to win.
It sounds crazy since they are so diametrically opposed on other issues, but to some those are the big ones and they will vote for the candidate that best represents their chance to shake up the system.
amborin
(16,631 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Maybe you should blame the people that will be voting for something as vile as Trump in the General election. I'd say you sarcasm is misguided. Use it on those that would support a person that purports to be tracist, plutocratic and misogynist. Who are those people and why are you giving them a pass?
metroins
(2,550 posts)I blame people trying to act as Spoilers.
Most Sanders supporters are sane, rational people; just like most Hillary supporters are sane, rational people. Most regular people would not advocate for a 3rd party spoiler.
Who is giving anybody a pass?
Did you read more into a post than that was there?
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Meaning if anyone dares to run as a third party candidate Trump will win. My comment to you is, why blame those that would not be satisfied with a Trump or Clinton presidency? Those are Sanders supporters the majority of them, thus the statement. Don't be upset with those that would prefer Sanders over those two candidates. Blame those that would vote for Trump instead of Sanders or Clinton. Because you are saying that if a person ran independent of the two of them, Clinton would surely lose...or aren't you?
NowSam
(1,252 posts)The end of the Democratic party as we knew it.
Gop will be gone and the Dems move right.
The rise of a new liberal party is inevitable. Will it be the greens or a new party altogether?
New Earth
(9,745 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Leader Maria Svart
(Executive Director)
Founded 1982
Merger of Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee
New American Movement
Headquarters 75 Maiden Lane, Ste 702
New York, NY 10038
Student wing Young Democratic Socialists
Membership (2014) 10,000
Ideology Democratic socialism
Social democracy
Political position Left-wing
International affiliation Socialist International
Website
dsausa.org
Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is a democratic-socialist and social-democratic organization and political party in the United States, which is a member of the Socialist International.
__________________________
GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)I would love to join any group that advocates for:
- Health Care as a Right
- Tuition Free Public Colleges and Universities
- Paid Family Leave
- Expanding Social Security
- Taxing the Wealthy so they pay their fair share
- Holding Wall St accountable for illegal activities.
If this is seriously like some whacked out idea to Democrats, then yes I am in the wrong place.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Organization and recruitment capacity? Not so much.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:24 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
FYI, they already exist and would LOVE to have your support.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1561001
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"FYI, they already exist and would LOVE to have your support. Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)"
Blatant TOS violations in this thread
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SoapBox
(18,791 posts)So a DEMOCRATIC Socialist is a TOS violation?
I guess then that THE only Democrat that counts, is if one is a card carrying Turd Way Democrat...being a Socialist Democrat doesn't count. Jeebus, now they are carving up what type of Democrat is an acceptable Democrat...how Democratic that's NOT.
Or some kind of topsy-turvey crap like that.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Have to say, I agree entirely!
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)And, here's our old buddy Cornell West, their honorary chair, right on the home page:
Cornel West,
DSA Honorary Chair"
Oh, and if you're serious:
DONATE TODAY TO FUND SOCIALISM IN 2016!
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)blueintelligentsia
(507 posts)Independent Social Democrats or Independent Democrats.
And all thanks to the Third Way and their lust for Money and Power.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)They control so much of our government at all levels (federal and state legislatures, governorships, etc.).
I would love to be wrong though!
It does seem like it's possible I might have to go somewhere else in the fairly near future though. I believe I might be at the end of my journey with an ever-rightward moving Democratic Party. This will probably be my final decision should HRC get the nomination (which certainly appears likely).
I have no faith in the agenda and actions of a Democratic Party that is controlled by the Clintons. And, that control will be further entrenched during an HRC Administration. The entire Party will be even more thoroughly entrenched with corporate interests than it currently is, and it's already way too much for me. Corporate interests will trounce the interests of average Americans, and I can't continue to support a Party that clearly chooses this direction over reform. Not any longer, and not after the past four decades have unfolded.
I'm not saying I definitely won't support HRC at this time. Simply, it is not very likely. And, should I decide not to support her and she's the nominee I'll gladly leave this website.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Hillary is the continuances of one of the best Dem leaders of
the Dem party
Dem's will be in a position to take down Citizen United: and
write a bill that will rebuild the middle class.
Can't even type. Laughing so hard!
DanTex
(20,709 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)unlike the post you're referring to.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)That is one of the funniest things ever!
She will help take down Citizen's United?
frylock
(34,825 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)I think you may disappointed.
artyteacher
(598 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Sanders people are spoiled brats,: that cannot get free college.
The Sanders people will not be out there for the Dem's in the mid term
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)WE are the Democrats.
The others are Third Way/ DLC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_From
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)budkin
(6,699 posts)This country has needed an end to 2 party rule for years. Looks like this is the beginning of the end for it.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)You're absolutely right.
Folks here will run you off for that.
dchill
(38,471 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)I love the smell of poutrage in the morning.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)On Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Hey DNC, we are big enough to be a third party...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511560853
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"Hey DNC, we are big efough to be a third party..."
Promoting a third party..TOS violation
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:05 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
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Explanation: Yep, clear TOS violation to advocate 3rd party against Democrats on DEMOCRATIC Underground.
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Explanation: Hey playinghardball! This is a site for Democrats! The purpose is to get Democrats elected! Maybe you should start Sanders Underground! Bye!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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senz
(11,945 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)I was 6.
Thank goodness folks with common sense were on duty!
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Am getting so sick of this. I was juror #2.
On Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Hey DNC, we are big enough to be a third party...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511560853
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"Hey DNC, we are big efough to be a third party..."
Promoting a third party..TOS violation
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:05 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alert
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Explanation: Did not promote. Did not advocate. Bogus alert.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a joke!
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yep, clear TOS violation to advocate 3rd party against Democrats on DEMOCRATIC Underground.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hey playinghardball! This is a site for Democrats! The purpose is to get Democrats elected! Maybe you should start Sanders Underground! Bye!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Blah, blah, blah...get in line...do as you are told...blah, blah, blah. LEAVE IT.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)2:05 PM
Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Hey DNC, we are big enough to be a third party...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511560853
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"Hey DNC, we are big efough to be a third party..."
Promoting a third party..TOS violation
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:05 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
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Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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senz
(11,945 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Thanks for noticing.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America
Autumn
(45,055 posts)by the democratic party and that vacuum will be filled.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Peacetrain
(22,875 posts)Good Luck with sticking your finger in the eyes of every Democrat who makes the system work on a local level.. What clap trap.. go start a party..
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Not sure why you're dragging this up in here, start your own site.
These ransom notes are getting tiresome.
Yuugal
(2,281 posts)are much more tiresome. I'm going to vote for who is better for my family not yours.
Do what you need to do, but get on with it already.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Oh you mean the DEMOCRATIC convention?
Thought we were still talking Third Party here.
Just more threats and ransom talk, etc...
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)The Progressive Party has a nice ring to it I think. Also I'm uncreative so thats the first thing that popped into my head.
Playinghardball
(11,665 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)How about The Populist Party
... or helping Working Families Party grow into more states (google to find them ... if I post a link, I might get alerted at this point)
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)msongs
(67,394 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Glad to see so many outing themselves today
DinahMoeHum
(21,783 posts)Donate to her challenger, Tim Canova:
https://timcanova.com/
https://www.facebook.com/TimCanovaForCongress/
https://secure.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/42087
senz
(11,945 posts)It's going to be a huge battle, but not unwinnable.
Basically, it's what Bernie's trying to do, however, he is not focused on anything so small as a political party.
The most worthy cause there is right now -- it's about the soul of America, the original promise to the people.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)HughLefty1
(231 posts)I haven't posted in a long time but Bernie has brought me back. Beyond disgusted with the DNC at this point. I just wonder if the knuckleheads on the other side of the aisle steal their nomination, nominate an establishment guy like Paul Ryan and go 3rd party(Trump) if Bernie should do the same thing. I really think Bernie could take the election in a 4 person race in November. Is a DNC candidate like HRC really that much different than a GOP globalist such as GWB? Not sure...
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)But it would end up with the 3 who get the most votes thrown into the House of Representatives, where I think the corporatist Republican (Ryan in your example) would be the likely winner unless he finished 4th in the popular vote and didn't make it to the House. I don't see a scenario where Bernie could win in the House.
dogman
(6,073 posts)A tie goes to the house. I suspect that is the motivation of third party talk by the gop.
randr
(12,409 posts)The Democratic Party can join the Republicans on the trash heap of history.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)it to the admins via pm with the jury results included.
Chichiri
(4,667 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I say YES. Go for it. I hate threats,, Just do it.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Welcome to Ignore.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)salinsky
(1,065 posts)CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)Stop fooling yourselves. You're neither a movement nor numerous enough to be a third party.
You can't even be bothered to show up to vote for the candidate you ostensibly support. No one believes you can establish a viable alternative party at any level.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)If leaving the Democratic Party means we don't have to associate with attitudes like yours, it's an unqualified win.
/ignore your nonsense.
hack89
(39,171 posts)what difference does it make if you do leave when it appears that you and your friends won't take the time to vote?
CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)seaglass
(8,171 posts)in the Democratic party no matter how much distaste he had with doing it. Bernie will not run 4 years from now, he will be 79 and a national campaign will be too much for him.
But good luck with you new party.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)because he has lit the fuse. An entire generation is now primed to do "the right thing". They understand the endemic corruption within both parties and they do not trust either. They trust Bernie because he is not a political whore. Yeah, there will be a fresh party, it will look something like the Democratic party used to look like.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)seaglass
(8,171 posts)for basing a new winning party on them.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)There are still plenty of Hillary supporters too in my county because most of the non-republicans here are older.
According to CNN and others, there are TOO MANY voters this cycle. No matter what happens, it will be historic.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)That way we don't have to hear the tired old retread arguments about why we need to support corporate-owned politicians.
PLEASE! I beg you.
brooklynite
(94,501 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)👅👎
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)Judging from the turnout for Sanders so far, that would be quite low energy third party.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)who still hold to the democratic ideals that the Democratic/Third Way party has abandoned.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Part of pushing the movement to be ready for the 2018 midterms.
We need to regain a lot of congress critters and state governments.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)But you didn't hear that from me.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)even as it supports Sanders and the general notion of rejuvenation of pro-people progressivism.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)I'm not full time over there yet, so I'm still trying to grip the nuance.
BainsBane
(53,031 posts)that over 2.6 million Americans have refused to vote as you tell them to.
What kind of democracy doesn't allow a minority rule to prevail anyway?
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)This is nothing more than more threats that the minority wants to get their way or they are willing the crap in the punchbowl used by the majority.
Threats suck!!
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)It's given a great deal of comic relief to my afternoon!
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Also, Working Families Party (i.e. those who don't live off their investments) already exists in several states (and is working to become a national party). They usually cross endorse the candidates of other parties but have started running their own downticket candidates, too. They're already endorsing Bernie for the Dem. Primary. I would love to see them become a national party and have Bernie run as their first Presidential candidate.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Meaning that candidates can run as a candidate of more than one party. While looking for state legislators supporting public banking, I found one in Vermont listed as a Green, a Democrat and a Working Families Party officeholder.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)They have started running their own candidates in some areas, too (not cross-party endorsements).
vintx
(1,748 posts)after losing a lot of voters to them?
Those planks which they adopted being the foundation of the New Deal, it bears mentioning.
treestar
(82,383 posts)oasis
(49,376 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)being a party is hard 7/24/365 kind of work.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)The RW Corporate Democrat Party is not representing me and has not for decades
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Let that sink in.
blueintelligentsia
(507 posts)What percentage of that 43% are left leaning? Would Bernie win over more independents in the general election?
jillan
(39,451 posts)Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Response to Playinghardball (Original post)
Post removed
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)But getting closer all the time. If President Hillary Clinton turns out to be a wishy-washy president, look for a strong third part movement for 2020.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)targets gullible segments of the electorate by making promises he knows he can't keep. It gets votes- if he was President and when he couldn't deliver he'd do what he always does-Blame it on the 1%, the oligarchs, the third wayers, neo libs etc etc. It almost worked.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)brooklynite
(94,501 posts)Can you name a competitive candidate you have for House, Senate, Governor, State Legislature?
vintx
(1,748 posts)I wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly so I started a thread in GD to get input from anyone who might want to comment (didn't go over too well but the link is here if you're curious: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027709227)
Anyway the relevant part is this:
from Why We're Liberals: A Handbook for Restoring America's Most Important Ideals - Eric Alterman
I'm still curious about what motivated this party to adopt those planks.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)If you do have that many, change the landscape of the DNC and Congress!
Primary Democrats who are weak on progressive and liberal causes with Democrats who are strong, and do what it takes to get them elected come the GE!
Get the vote turned out in the "purple" areas and change the numbers of D's vs R's!
I get your sentiment and frustration, but that kind of split weakens both those who leave for a 3rd party AND the Democratic party, and will really reinforce the Republican Party (unless Trump splits them as well).
As an example, look at the calls for Green party support that's popped up lately. As a separate party, they've made some progress in municipal/county/state levels, but on the national level has been virtually non-existent or of any real influence.
Just imagine, for a second, how this primary would look if all of the Green party was with Bernie, and progressive candidates along side of those who support Bernie and the more progressive candidates were Democrats? That would be a very large pool of strong progressives and liberals added to the existing number, and would make the voice so much more heard.
I'm not going to use that old talking point about Nader in Florida in 2000 as being the cause of 8 years of Bush. There was a LOT more at play than Nader's run (crooked assed government, voter disenfranchisement, judicial abuse). Nader's run wasn't the cause of Bush, but at the same time, if Nader hadn't have run, there would have been no Bush. In Florida alone, the numbers would have made the entire need for a recount unnecessary.
So, I say again, if you have those numbers.. don't split and harm yourselves and everyone else. Don't burn down your house and start over. CHANGE the landscape!
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Go Bernie!
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)The best would be for the republicans to go the way if the Whigs, the DNC Corporate Hillary/DWS wing could replace them with the Sanders/Warren and we followers on the left as the new liberal party. Then the two parties would fit on the political spectrum like it was pre Reagan.
Autumn
(45,055 posts)the way some are calling for your head, minus the cake remark though.
Playinghardball
(11,665 posts)Autumn
(45,055 posts)Playinghardball
(11,665 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)Thank you for admitting you are a third party.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)The Democratic Party stopped representing progressives and working class and poor people since decades ago. Why should such voters be owned by the Democratic Party? You have to do something for me to stay in the party.
The Democratic Party of nowadays is run by affluent urban centrists that are socially liberal, in coalition with racial minorities (due largely to the racism of the Republican Party.)
nolabels
(13,133 posts)But i am pretty sure most corporations think they have them under their wing also. Government staying out of peoples personal business (as long as isn't detrimental to others) is what is not happening. Please name some US religious observance that isn't a Christian Bible fixation?
Freedom of religion and from religion is what is also not happening. Just too many things that have been promised and or taken away for the sake of business and profit for corporations. With little regard for peoples and their offspring's well being, our government has become our nightmare that is out of control.
If i happened it wouldn't be a third party, it would be the REAL PEOPLES PARTY
Martin Eden
(12,863 posts)... or is the Democratic Party leaving us???
Let's get Instant Runoff Voting, then let the chips fall where they may.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)They took over the Democratic party and now they are open to cutting Social Security and Medicare, as well as other programs that benefit the middle class and poor people. FDR Dems need to stay in THIS party and protect the heritage of the legislation that has been passed by real Democrats. Third Way needs to become the third party and openly level with people as to their positions of issues (of course, that is a pipe dream).
Sam
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)And if none of the three or four parties (depending on what the GOP does) gets 270, then the decision goes to the state delegations to the House -- of which 33 are controlled by the GOP.
Do you really want the GOP to name the next President? Then a 3rd party would be a great idea.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)LisaM
(27,801 posts)So presumably, this is all moot.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-independent_us_55ba86e7e4b06363d5a1742b
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I hope he goes for the Independent ticket. He stands a better chance than she does. With or without him we get Trump, so we may as well go for it!!!!!!
bigtree
(85,986 posts)marble falls
(57,075 posts)Bernie Sanders.
Until the system changes to allow for a run off in a general election for President if no candidate gets 51% of the vote, I will never support a third party candidate.
demwing
(16,916 posts)to the Populist Reform of the Democratic Party Group - where we can discuss Party Reform without violating TOS.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1277
Zynx
(21,328 posts)Yay!