If Bernie had any toxic secrets in his past, he would never have run.

[Ken Burch]

The guy isn't a blithering idiot. He wouldn't put his supporters through the risk of a lethal reveal.

The stakes are too high for Bernie to run if there was anything about him as a person that could actually hurt the cause.

He's not corrupt...he's not a womanizer...he didn't shoot JR OR kill Laura Palmer.

He's not a furry or a Nickelback fan.

Unless someone's got proof that Bernie's a Nazi cannibal mad scientist with the world's largest Hello Kitty bobblehead collection, there couldn't be anything there.

The only thing Bernie is vulnerable to is something HRC is vulnerable too...slander and lies.

[madokie]

1. Honest as the day is long

as my mom would say. Solid as Granite, polite as a gentleman and strong as an ox. Our next President come hell or high water

[surrealAmerican]

2. Well, there might be a few of those hello kitty bobble-heads ...

... but I don't think it will hurt him. He probably only has them to amuse the grandkids.

[etherealtruth]

3. Agreed

[hack89]

4. Nonsense. There is nothing more egotistical than a career politician

they all think they can get away with it. He is nothing special or different.

[thesquanderer]

5. If there were really a campaign killer in his background...

...I suspect the Hillary people would have found it by now.

[hack89]

6. Face it - "campaign killers" are really hard to come by

as seen by the endless fantasies of Bernie's supporters that never come to anything.

[thesquanderer]

25. To Bernie's credit, he's handling Hillary with kid gloves and sticking to issues.

The Republicans are going to make as much hay as they can out of the email server, the clinton foundation questions...

Meanwhile, it is so hard for the Hillary campaign to come up with anything against Bernie, they have to make things up. (He was against bailing out the auto industry, he's in favor of vigilantes, he's going to take away your medicare, he's cozy with the koch brothers...)

[hack89]

32. They don't have to attack Bernie to beat him as we are seeing by the election results. nt

[thesquanderer]

39. It hasn't been a cakewalk, though.

There have been moments where it looked like things might be slipping away from Hillary. You don't think they would have pulled something out against him if they had it? Or that they wouldn't attack him with something real instead of things that they made up, if they could have? I think it's pretty obvious they don't have anything of real substance to use against him. And if Hillary hasn't found it, Trump (or whoever) won't find it either.

[hack89]

45. After Super Tuesday I doubt Hillary was too concerned.

the math became clear.

[thesquanderer]

48. Actually, Super Tuesday went better for Bernie than expected.

He won four states, and a fifth was a squeaker. Look at the polls, he wasn't expected to win anything except Vermont. So that actually increased his viability, after the SC disaster.

And after that, he won Michigan.

I think Hillary had one big sigh of relief after South Carolina, didn't expect to be seriously threatened again, and then had another big sigh of relief after March 15. But she had her heartburn moments in between. (And early on, too. She pulled out all the stops to try to get NH, and couldn't make a dent.)

[hack89]

52. Viability doesn't trump delegates

and Hillary's southern firewall strategy worked like a charm. It put Bernie in a huge hole such that close wins don't help him. He has to win big states by big margins and he has not shown the ability to do that. He is not viable in large states with diverse populations - wide swaths of the Democratic coalition have rejected him and show no desire to change their minds. That is why Hillary is not concerned with Bernie.

[thesquanderer]

56. Maybe she's not concerned about him...

...but she has, at times, certainly attacked him as if she were. My point in this thread remains, she has (at various times) been looking for ways to attack him, and has not been able to come up with anything genuine. It's all been misleading nonsense. Why attack with lies, if you have something true you can pin him with, some real scandal in his background? That's what makes me think they don't have anything of substance... and if they don't, neither does the GOP.

[hack89]

65. I think it has more to do with the over sensitivity of some Bernie supporters

who don't appreciated the slightest criticism of Bernie - he is nearly perfect in every regard so any attack has to be based on lies and slurs. It is more reflective of the political naivete of some of his supporters than anything else.

Hillary has a good reason not to go negative on Bernie - when she pivots to the general election she wants his help unifying the party. It is not because he is a saint but because attacking him serves no purpose.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

54. I love my new DU - Ignore Edition -- welcome to the list

still rounding up strays

[hack89]

63. How mature of you. nt

[pandr32]

53. The Clinton campaign doesn't need to stoop to this

[thesquanderer]

58. Yet, they have stooped to...

...as I said, making things up. (He was against bailing out the auto industry, he's in favor of vigilantes, he's going to take away your medicare, he's cozy with the koch brothers...)
(Oh, there was also that one about the "foreword" he wrote)

IMO, that's stooping lower than if they actually had something that could have honestly been used against him.

[pandr32]

84. All those things

are related to something real and true. Perhaps you just don't like that they are mentioned.

[thesquanderer]

85. They may be *related* to something true...

...but they are specifically designed to lead people to believe something that is not true.

Please see my posts at http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511461901

and http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511514986

thanks

[Punkingal]

7. I know it's hard to fathom, but he is special and different.

I dare you to find something.

[hack89]

8. He is a nice guy - no question. But he is not a transformational person in American history

I know lots of nice guys - doesn't mean they should be president.

[Punkingal]

9. I wish he were a transformational person in American history.

We so need things to change, for all of us, and for the future.

[hack89]

10. Transformational people usually have a history of transforming things

Bernie, not so much. He is an obscure senator from a small white state with a mediocre record at best. Why some think he could actually create a real revolution is beyond me.

[Punkingal]

11. It's very simple, it's called HOPE.

And it's irrelevant where he is from.

[hack89]

14. Or desperation. Who knows?

but it appears he was the wrong choice.

[Punkingal]

22. Look, I was aware of Bernie YEARS before he ran for President.

I look at elected officials and support them based on what they say about the issues that are important to me. I loved Ted Kennedy because on every issue, I knew he had my back. Same with Bernie. He has my back. And it isn't just issues that affect me...I am not poor or gay or black, but I care about the things that affect those groups. I am not better than they are, and I know it, and I want someone who sticks up for them. I do pay enormous amounts for health insurance, and I like what he has to say about that. I want education to be in reach for the younger generation without debt, because education sets you free.

I don't find it necessary to call Hiilary supporters things like delusional, etc. I think you could respect my genuine support for Bernie in the same way. As JFK said, "We all inhabit the same planet, we all breathe the same air."

Peace.

[pinebox]

16. That is demeaning as hell.

"He is an obscure senator from a small white state"
Are you fucking kidding? Why even reference his race? You could have kept it classy, instead you went there. Who the fuck cares if his state is white? The guy was locked up for standing up for civil rights. What did Hillary ever do? Nada. Zero. Ziltch. A mediocre record? He's done more than Hillary ever has. And yes that includes not being indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions.

I don't give a shit what color someone is. They could be Titian Blue #19 for all I care. Issues matter. Period and full stop.

Why do people think he could create a real revolution? It isn't hard. As you said he's obscure and hey he's in a dead heat nationwide against the most famous woman in the world.

[hack89]

17. He is getting his ass kicked for the nomination by the most famous woman in the world

lets keep things in perspective. He has been rejected by broad swathes of the Democratic coalition and has found a niche in a very narrow demographic. Once the election is over he will go back to the Senate (as an Independent because he doesn't need Democratic help to further his political ambitions anymore) and fade back into a backbencher with no real influence. History is hard on losers.

[pinebox]

19. Sure he is

Getting his ass kicked? Hillary is winning, for now but it's hardly an ass kicking. 300 delegates ahead isn't a whooping, it's a lead.
Ya let's keep things in perspective. The broad swatches of the Dem coalition? What broad swatch is that? The Third Way neocon vote? Indy voters go for Bernie and that is a much larger voting segment than Dems alone. In fact that is why he beats every single Republican opponent in a GE by far greater numbers than Hillary.

Once he wins, America will have someone who actually represents them. Someone who fights for them and who isn't nor ever has been beholden to corporate interests. You know, the guy who wants people to survive when they work. That's a pretty novel idea, to actually get by while holding down a job because millions can't today. You know, universal health care, like in the rest of the free world. Someone who believes that education is a right.

History is hard on losers? Not when you've always been a winner.
Sorry I'll take the guy who has always been right as opposed to the woman who is always switching her positions to make it seem she has been too.

Read it. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/upshot/the-senate-votes-that-divided-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders.html

[hack89]

26. 300 delegates is an insurmountable lead for Bernie

given his inability to appeal to a wide range of voters. He cannot win in large, diverse states while Hillary can.

That wide swath that rejects him include Black, Latino, women and older voters. His core support is young white men. That is an undeniable fact based on election results.

[Ken Burch]

75. You have no reason to be sneering at Bernie

He is the only candidate in the race fighting for working people and the poor. You can't care about either of those groups and devote your career to pushing the Democratic Party to the right.

If Bernie hadn't run, HRC would still be using Bill's '96 platform(as she essentially did in '08). And you would be telling us we were obligated to accept that.

Yes, HRC has carried a lot of POC voters. But we both know she has never actually stood up for them. Centrists DON'T stand up against racism.

[Armstead]

21. Look at his record in Burlington

I know a small city is not the USA....But being elected by ten votes and being considered a kook -- and then going on to revitalize the city,. build broad-based coalitions and being named one of Americas Best Mayors by US News and World Report indicates he dies have proven leadership and executive qualities in the real world.

[hack89]

30. He appears to have squandered the subsequent 26 years.

not a not of transforming going on

[Armstead]

33. As some sage onbce said...A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste

and yours seems to have a padlock on it. Buh Bye

[hack89]

34. Personal attacks, the last resort when you are losing. nt

[Armstead]

36. Hardly...I recognize brick walls when I see them. It's not always about "winning"

I tried to point something pout to you in a non-snarky way.

But you ignored the original point and then followed up with a basic snarky lie.

if you want to call that "winning" it shows....well, I will give an equally intelligent open minded response: Whaaaaaattttevvvveerrrr.

[thesquanderer]

44. We only have two choice, Bernie or Hillary.

Of those two, who do you think would have a better chance of being more transformational? Hint: Only one even wants to try.

As an aside, I'm curious: Who do you think could have run, who would have been a potentially more transformational candidate than the two we're choosing from?

[hack89]

46. I am hard pressed to come up with a name to be honest

keep in mind, I am looking for accomplishments, not words or promises. This is not a golden age of American politicians for sure. I also think that the toxic political environment that exists makes it very hard for anyone to accomplish anything, much-less actually transform American.

[randome]

12. It's sort of funny how many complete strangers think they are his closest friends.

I would never say what you said about anyone I didn't know intimately.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

24. I know people in Vermont who have dealt with and/or are familiar with him over the years...

and they all say he's the real deal and have great personal admiration for him.

Yes he can be a bit cranky sometimes, but an overwhelming number of people in Vermont love the guy, even with any foibles he may have. (And what mortal does not have foibles?)

[randome]

35. From what I know about him, I'd like him, too. And I'd trust him.

And the crankiness bit doesn't bother me one bit. But I would never say he has nothing in his past because I didn't know him his entire life. Probably the only people I'd say that about are my daughters.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

38. I live close to Vermont, and I am sure that if there were dirt, it'd have gotten around

Not an easy place to keep deep dark secrets if one is a politician.

[randome]

43. Good point.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[KingFlorez]

27. It makes no sense

It's really odd for people to be so trusting of someone that they don't really know and will never know personally.

[randome]

40. The closest to a hero I have is Stephen Colbert.

It would devastate me to discover that he had some sordid, secret past. But I would never make the claim that he doesn't have anything because, like you said, I don't know him and likely never will.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[frylock]

62. Of course, that only applies to Bernie's supporters, and not Hillary's.

[KingFlorez]

64. I don't see a whole lot of Clinton supporters acting as if they know her personally

I'm supporting her, but I don't believe that she is my personal best friend or anything or believe that she is completely perfect.

[frylock]

68. I don't see a whole lot of Sanders supporters acting as if they know him personally either.

Yet here you are, making that very assumption.

[KingFlorez]

69. I have a different opinion

I'll just leave it at that. lol.

[frylock]

70. Deeper than Deepak Chopra

[dsc]

13. we all thought that about Edwards

and look how that turned out.

[NWCorona]

20. John always had that slick Willie quality to him

I was only surprised at how low he went. Pond scum.

[phleshdef]

49. I always thought there was something up with John Edwards... the constant blinking.

[Hiraeth]

15. Whatever it is, I sure hope someone hurries up and posts it here. --

Lord knows if the SMART Hillary supporters can't find it, you damn well KNOW those dumb ass Republicans will NEVER find it.

[Armstead]

29. He had a son out of wedlock

As far as personal scandals that's about the worst that has come up....But since his son campaigns with him, it's hardly a dirty little secret.

[Hiraeth]

41. that is NOT it. that is already out, exposed and dealt with. you JUST know there is SOMETHING there.

Hillary supporters have not dug DEEP enough. EXPOSE HIM !!!

SMEAR him with SCANDALS !!!!!!!!!!

DO IT NOW before ALL IS LOST.

AIEEEEEEEEEEE

[dsc]

51. let's be honest

if it were a female candidate who had a child out of wed lock it would be a massive, big deal. I frankly had no idea about this until it was mentioned in passing here a few months ago.

[Armstead]

55. I honestly think it depends on the situation

I think, except for a close minded minority, It has become so common that is a non-issue these days.

I may be wrong, but I think if a woman had a child out of wedlock, it would depend whether she had owned up to it, and been an actual mother.

It's when they hide the kids away t, and it is brought out of the woodwork that it becomes a problem for wither a male or female. John Edwards got skunked on that because he was a skunk.

[NWCorona]

18. I'm gonna be real

I'm a die hard Bernie supporter but I can't say for certain that Bernie has no skeletons in his closet. I can't see it happening but the possibility is always there.

I'd be super bummed.

[KingFlorez]

23. Plenty of politicians run with secrets

Sanders may not have any, but no one knows for if he does save for him.

With that said, you don't need to have enormous secrets to get nuked in an election. Writing that women fantasize about being raped is pretty dangerous itself. You put those words in an ad against a black backdrop with total silence and you get an instant one two punch.

[Armstead]

31. Um.....if you want to go there...

I can think of some great ads they'll have about the Clintons' personal lives

[KingFlorez]

37. That is to be expected

What I was referring to was the notion is that Sanders has nothing that could be used against him.

[Armstead]

42. The stuff they'll throw at him is also expected

[Sheepshank]

28. any history brought up here is immediatly hidden and the poster censored...so there is that n/t

[libdem4life]

67. Another one-liner. Can you be more specific...like a couple of the awful

things that are so cleverly hidden and posters (I'm assuming HRC's folk) who have been censored...other than being a Democratic SOCIALIST. Well over 50% ...I think it was 63% last I read, of American people approved of American Socialism ... especially the FDR kind.

You made a flat statement. I'll await your explanation. And, because I'm a real liberal, I'll read it, think about it and change my mind if it makes sense. But other than that, these nifty and lazy one-liners are getting tiresome.

(The NRA is a non-starter...D- )

[livetohike]

47. He must be a Saint! That has to be it. Perfect in every way. N/t

[brooklynite]

50. Nobody went after Mondale and Dukakis for criminal/ethical/moral issues...

...they went after them for being "soft on crime", "tax and spend", "liberals" who were "card carrying members of the ACLU".

Change "soft on crime" to "soft on terrorism", add "card carrying "socialist" and the Republicans have a good starting point.

[Armstead]

57. Like they will with Clinton

Have you been listening to Trump and Cruz and the otehr Republicans the last few months?

They also call her an immoral liberal and a free spending socialist.

[brooklynite]

61. Absolutely true. HOWEVER...

Last edited Fri Mar 25, 2016, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Clinton is ahead of or competitive with Trump DESPITE being hit with Republican attacks for years. Everyone knows about her "baggage" and have accepted or rejected it. For Sanders, this will all be "news" to prospective voters.

[Armstead]

66. Just because something is new doesn't mean it's worse

I'm going to assume Bernie hasn't been doing unseemly things with all those cows in Vermont.

Otherwise, the worst stuff has already been thrown at him.

Anything remaining are things that are more associated with all Demnocrats and Liberals and will resonate people who wouldn't vote for any Democratic anyway.

[LanternWaste]

59. I imagine many politicians runs for office as a righteous and pure individual

I imagine many politicians runs for office as a righteous and pure individual, free of sin, and innocent of all indictments... regardless of whether it's true or not.

[Kip Humphrey]

60. Oh, but those mean republicons have'nt been their meanest toward Bernie yet!

Of course, NOTHING Hillary & Co. have thrown at Bernie has been in any way effective. In fact, virtually all of Hillary Camp's attacks on Bernie have proven entirely counter-productive to them.

So, as THEY say, "BRING IT ON!"

[kstewart33]

71. Ken, I respect you a bunch, but your comment is somewhat naive.

Bernie's problem is that his biography is loaded with facts that the Republicans will use to demolish him if he were to win the nomination. Nothing that we see as a problem, but liberals don't dominate the public electorate. Only 30% of the Democratic Party are liberal and the percentage is far lower in the remaining population.

So far the Repubs have been deadly silent about Bernie. Not a peep. But you can bet that they've done a ton of oppo research and are loaded to the gills with stuff they will use. His past Marxists and Communist relationships. Stuff in his socialist speeches. His support of Castro during the Cold War and the Sandinistas. His atheism, conscientous objector status during war time, child-out-of-wedlock, honeymooning in the Soviet Union, and material in past columns that he wrote while a mayor in Vermont. The one that begins with a sexual fantasy of three men simultaneously raping a woman will be of particular interest.

The nastiest stuff will be given to talk radio hosts and conservative websites. That's how they will spread it to the general public. Give it time, and the spread will happen. Cable news will also spread it in its own somewhat subtle way except Fox News that will go ballistic with this stuff. Why haven't they yet? Because they, like many right-wing media sites, channels, and radio stations, have been given their orders by their party. Blast Hillary now to increase Bernie's odds of winning the nomination, and then blast away at him in the general.

If Trump wins the nomination, the heavens only know what the man will do with this stuff in the general.

Consider that in the last year, the Gallup poll found that about 50% of those polled said that they would under no circumstances vote for an atheist.

Lastly, consider that the group who votes most reliably are the elderly. They remember Castro and the Cold War and the Sandinistas. Bernie's young supporters don't and it won't matter much to them. But it will to those who remember.

Bernie has never been as viciously attacked as he would be in the general. Given his personality and inexperience in this regard, I don't think that he would handle it well.

You could say the same about the Repub attacks on Hillary. But there's a huge difference. It's all been out there for years. Likely no surprises, and Hillary's a champ at handling it because she's been doing it for decades. But with Bernie who has not been vetted, what I've mentioned and other info will surprise many voters, even likely Bernie supporters.

[Armstead]

73. They will throw the kitchen sink at him...But they always do at all Democrats

But he has proven his ability to withstand it. Being open and above board helps.

Many people in Vermont who do not share his ideology still support him because he knows he on their side, which is what is most important to convey. ...He is what he is, and except for the hard core conservatives and fundies, I think most people would not be swayed by the GOP shit.

[Metric System]

76. He hasn't proven an ability to withstand a barrage of attacks from the Right. They've been focusing

all their attention on Hillary. Sanders has only been a national figure for less than a year.

[Armstead]

79. Neither has Clinton

Other than her runs for the Senate against weak candidates ashe's never been tested to successfully withstand that either

[kstewart33]

80. Armstead, here's an example of what the Repubs will do.

John McCain competed with George W. Bush for the Republican nomination in 2000. McCain beat Bush by a bunch of points in the New Hampshire primary. It was a huge upset given that the Bush family is from New England.

The next primary was South Carolina. Many years before, the McCains adopted an African American baby; I think she was from Africa. The Republicans spred the rumor that McCain had an affair with a black woman and the girl was his illegitimate child. As a result, Bush trounced McCain in the primary. Before the rumor, McCain was leading by many points.

In the 2004 re-election campaign, the Republicans turned John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War soldier, into a serial liar in their Swifboat campaign by paying a few guys who served with Kerry to lie about Kerry's service. It was hugely successful. They destroyed Dukakis in the 1988 Daddy Bush campaign with the Willie Horton ads.

Think about that for a moment. And then think about the facts in Bernie's biography and how the Repubs will attack relentlessly with exaggeration, fear, and innuendo. Communist, Marxist, atheist, a man with no sexual morals. I can see the ads now: "Would you vote for a Communist to lead this country?"

You probably are too young to know any of this. So believe this: they will destroy Bernie. He has never faced this kind of assassination. The public has no idea of the charges that will be made against him because the press has not thoroughly vetted Bernie's biography. I have no faith that he will respond well to it. Kerry did not handle it effectively, a far more gifted and experienced politician that Bernie. Bernie won't know what hit him.

[Armstead]

82. I'm 63...I remember all that well...I also remember what they did to Dukakis and even...

what Nixon did to Hubert Humphrey.

I also remember mpore recently how the GOP contuinually refers to Obama as a "Saul Alinsky communist community organizer from the ghetto of Chicago." .....We all know how well that one has worked out. The wingnuts buy it, but most people roll their eyes.

The GOP crap usually works when their opposition either puffs themselves up, or tries to hide something or portray themselves as something they aren't.

Keyy's biog mistake (IMO) was in portraying himself as the Second Coming of George Patton instead of who he really is, which is a damn smart and decent liberal. So when the GOP threw the Swiftboat stuff at him, it made a dent.

I think Bernie will stand up to it for a simple reason. He makes no bones about who and what he is.

For example, Bernie has an illegitimate son. Now if he had hidden that son away and made secret payments to the mother or something that'd be a vulnerability. But he is a real father, and his son travels with him on his campaign. So it's not some deep dark secret they can drag out. And he'd probably respond "yeah. So what?" Which is what the average voter would say in this day and age.

[kstewart33]

83. Communism and Marxism are a different kettle of tea.

So to speak. But your remembering GOP assaults lends much more credence to your view than the perspective of many far younger Bernie supporters who haven't a clue about what the GOP is capable of doing.

Thanks for responding.

[KittyWampus]

72. He's got plenty of "toxic" information but if anyone posts it, it gets hidden

[Electric Monk]

78. Ooh, unsubstantiated innuendo. Ok, you've convinced me (NOT). nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

74. He is baggage deprived. Unlike another candidate who has so much that she has to hide it.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

77. If the benchmark is "legitimate" secrets/scandals, etc., then no, but GOP doesnt care

about legitimate, never has.

[Karma13612]

81. +100. I like your logic. #FeeltheBern !! eom