So interesting Hillary fans are fine with AZ Voter suppression.....

[Logical]

Because hill won the state.

Cracks me up.

[yourpaljoey]

1. Yes, the true spirit of the Democratic Party... or what it has become.

slow sad head shake

[sufrommich]

2. Nobody's "fine with voter suppression" it's the

Sanders campaign trying to blame Hillary Clinton for the sins of Arizona's GOP deeds that is pissing people off. And please don't try to deny that is happening because these accusations are all over the internet. Dirty trick from the Sanders campaign to allow this to be spread.

[JackInGreen]

9. I havn't seen anyone blame her outright for arranging the election issues in AZ

We'll not quibble about the electioneering etc in the east and accusations there.
I have seen plenty being outraged over her taking advantage of it, and her supporters considering it just fine and dandy as long as it benefitted their candidate. (that's not pointed directly at you btb).

[CorkySt.Clair]

28. Some also want the results invalidated and delegates awarded to Bernie

But it's all about integrity of the process (wink wink).

[jeff47]

39. Yeah! That's why there's a ton of posts claiming the voter suppression was fake!!

Oh wait...

[DanTex]

3. Of course we're not fine with it. We're also not fine with Bernie fans blaming it on Hillary.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I am upset because the longest lines were in heavily Latino areas where she was walloping Sanders.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/arizona

[Armstead]

12. You should be -- Wrong is wrong no matter how you cut it

I suppose you'll be okay with it if the same thing happens in the General?

[Logical]

6. I agree, hillary had nothing to do with it. Nt

[LiberalFighter]

37. I agree with you.

I don't know if it is just a few Bernie supporters doing all the heat or if there are quite a few that feel that way. Or if it is trolls feeding the fire.

But Hillary supporters don't condone voter suppression either.

[FarPoint]

5. That claim is not true.

We Hillary supporters just won't accept blame for Arizona being at fault.... There is a difference. Many of us, including myself are active with regards to preventing, eliminating voter disenfranchisement.

[Tarc]

7. Lying is an easy thing to do when you make 1 post and then run

The AZ problems are hopefully being investigated, but the fact is that it hurt Clinton more than Sanders, as he does poorly with Latino voters.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Bernie does very well with Native American voters, Arizona's largest and most ongoing voter

suppression issues are aimed at the tribes. It's years and years of Republican bullshit. Both candidates lost votes and no one knows who lost the most votes but that is the last thing that matters, what matters is that people were unable to cast their votes. Those voters, I don't care who they wanted to vote for, got screwed out of their franchise.

[suffragette]

60. + 1,000

Agree with every point you made here, BlueNW.

[JoePhilly]

8. Why are you lying about us?

We are not fine with it.

We just think your attempts to attack Hillary over it are pathetic and we have no problem telling you so.

[Downwinder]

10. AZ Dem. officials predicted the problems at the polls.

Can't blame Hillary for taking advantage with early voting, goes with the territory. Can blame her and her supporters for accepting the voter suppression and not speaking out and condemning it.

[mercuryblues]

11. so interesting

How Sander's supporters are saying Hillary "stole" the state. When she had a huge margin in the polls, 20 -50%. Yet she won with less than 20%. As noted below, these shenanigans were mostly in minority districts, where Hillary was kickin' ass. This rotten republican trick hurt Hillary and helped Bernie. Somehow Hillary went to AZ with briefcases full of money to bribe the R's.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280156616#post16

So how can you expect Hillary supporters to fight against republicon voter suppression, when they are busy fighting DEMOCRATS against the bogus claim she broke the law, bribed election officials, is in cahoots with republicons, suppressing the votes, and so on.

You think her supporters should be fighting back against this, then stop the insane bullshit lies.

[LanternWaste]

14. You'll of course point us towards the relevant posts, yes?

You'll of course point us towards the relevant posts implicitly* indicating support for voter suppression, yes? Or is this simply another allegation lacking any supporting evidence?


*Implicit: to indicate or suggest without being explicitly stated. (In case you needed basic vocabulary assistance again)

[Downwinder]

17. Calling it a "fake" issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511563951

[LanternWaste]

18. Beveling (however inaccurately) something is fake does not imply support of it.

Beveling (however inaccurately) something is fake does not imply support of it.

[noamnety]

26. Disagree.

Claiming the voter suppression issue is fake is the same as dismissing/accepting it.

It's like climate change:

1. Refuse to acknowledge
2. Claim there is nothing to fix because the issue doesn't exist

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. There are a bunch there calling me crazy for raising the issue

The fact they used a source they don't like as cover does not matter to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511563314

By the way, they are also our resident bullies. But things like I am sorry your candidate lost...I could care less who the Dems nominate..I am an independent, when the issue is democracy, is an issue.

So they are HRC supporters. But most importantly they are part of a serious bully crew. One is truly ficpxared (not in a good way) on me. But you wanted examples, they are collected there.

By the way, at no point have I blamed the campaign. But there are optics that are feeding this.

[Agschmid]

15. ... Another day, another blatantly false claim.

Not shocked.

[jeff47]

40. So these threads don't exist?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511563314
Lots of lovely replies dismissing the issue in that one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511563951
That's a Clinton supporter claiming the suppression was "fake", and offering many, many replies insisting it was fake.

And there's plenty more.

[Agschmid]

41. I'm a Hillary supporter, find my OP that says it was fake.

...

There isn't one.

We should all stop making suck broad brush attacks, they are almost always false.

[jeff47]

42. Yeah, those goalposts blocked the view there. Good idea to move them.

Perhaps you could highlight where the OP says all Clinton supporters. You know, since you're so interested in truth and all.

[Agschmid]

43. Their intention is clear.

It always has been.

[jeff47]

44. So didn't find where the OP said "all" supporters then?

Hrm....almost like the OP wasn't actually a lie as you claimed.

[Agschmid]

46. Deleted, this isn't worth my time.

[libtodeath]

16. Add one more thing to the list

of stuff I never dreamed I would see happening.

[Dem2]

19. Logical Fallacy

Ironic user name.

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. But can you name it?

I can.

[Dem2]

31. Straw man

It's often multiple choice with LF's though.

[Lizzie Poppet]

32. Yay!

I'd add that it was the "planted axiom" variation of the straw man. Nice to see other posters that know this stuff.

FWIW, this Bernie supporter has seen plenty of Hillary folk who were just as angry over the Arizona fiasco as anyone. It probably helped their candidate...and they still condemned what they saw as anti-democratic. Props to those folk for honesty and character...

[Gothmog]

20. That voter suppression also hurt Clinton-Clinton is fighting against voter suppression

Voter protection is one of my key issues. The Clinton platform is one of the best set of proposals to protect the right to vote that I have seen and this is one of my passions. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/voting-rights/

Hillary has laid out her vision for how to expand access to the ballot box for all Americans and how to defend against the systematic, deliberate efforts to stop millions of citizens from participating in our democracy:

Repairing the Voting Rights Act. Congress should move quickly to pass legislation that would fix the damage done to the Voting Rights Act by the Supreme Court and restore the full protections American voters need and deserve. These protections are crucial for young and minority voters, seniors, and other underrepresented groups disproportionately affected by harmful Republican efforts to restrict voting.

Setting a new national standard for early voting. It’s time to set a standard across our country of at least 20 days of early in-person voting, including opportunities for evening and weekend voting. This will reduce long lines and give more people an opportunity to vote, especially those who have work or family obligations during the day. Early in-person voting isn’t just convenient—it’s also more secure, more reliable, and more affordable than absentee voting.

Implementing universal, automatic voter registration. Every citizen in every state should be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18, unless they choose to opt out. At the same time, we need to make sure that registration rolls are secure, up to date, and accurate. When you move, your registration should move with you. Modernizing registration will add tens of millions of voters to the rolls, cost less, and reduce the potential for errors or irregularities.

Restoration of the protections of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act would have prevented the long lines yesterday

[Rebkeh]

38. This is all great

But I don't trust she would actually do any of it. I've no reason to believe that this isn't just another okie-doke, I have more reason to believe that it is. She's been inconsistent and opportunistic for decades. There isn't a thing she can do to change my mind, I believed her the first time.

All that said, I'm not interested in arguing the finer points, I'm just saying why this argument isn't going to help. Please see my post (#36)down thread about an alliance for a broader goal. This is bigger than an election.

[jillan]

21. They don't care that Hillary supporters were denied the right to vote

Hillary supporters were calling in on the radio yesterday with their stories.

Still no word from Hillary

[xloadiex]

54. She actually had her legal council/surrogate

Show up on reddit and post in the SandersforPresident sub with a "don't look at us" post and then linked to her policies. Which I thought was pretty nervy to do in that sub. Some pretty good comments followed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4bncfn/arizona_election_fraud_mega_thread/d1b5q54

[jillan]

58. Are you serious? What a strange thing to do.

What kind of legal counsel post on Reddit? It's laughable.

[Codeine]

23. Oh bullshit.

Nobody's fine with it, we just think blaming Clinton for the AZ fiasco is mind-bogglingly stupid and pig-ignorant.

[pdsimdars]

24. It is crazy, but the more you dig down, the more they are exactly like RW Repubicans

[Sheepshank]

25. And Bernie supporters are fine with theft of data

see how that works?

[EndElectoral]

27. Some were initially crying sour grapes and saying there weren't lines before the info became evident

[WhiteTara]

29. That's quite an assumption. NO ONE is fine with this.

Hillary lost many votes as well as Bernie. This was designed to suppress votes in POC communities and it worked well. Both lost many votes. Hillary was backed by both Hispanic and Native American communities also.

[NCTraveler]

30. You are full of shit and are making a mockery of logical thinking.

Please show me where I have shown any sign of being "fine with AZ Voter suppression".

All you will find is me speaking out against it.

It's this level of ignorance that is slowly driving me away from this place. The stupidity on display in your op is becoming the norm when at one point it was the exception.

[JoePhilly]

56. +1

[salinsky]

33. No one is fine with voter suppression other than Republicans ...

... but, it is only natural that the supporters of the candidate who lost would make the most noise.

It's astonishing that many of those same people claim that they will never support the Democratic nominee if it is not their preferred candidate, potentially allowing the appointment of more rightwing SCOTUS justices, which would inevitably lead to even more voter suppression efforts.

Logical??

Hardly.

[DesertRat]

34. That's an untrue statement.

[Rebkeh]

36. And here we go ... as I expected

All democrats are harmed by voter suppression as it was designed to benefit republicans. That it, in this particular (AZ primary) instance, benefits one candidate is a fluke. Okay, mostly a fluke, but not a battle worth fighting right now.

This is a chance to defend democracy with common cause, are we going to be allies here?

For that to happen, Clinton's people have to admit she benefitted from a classic establishment tactic. That it wasn't meant to benefit her is not wholly irrelevant. Intentions/impact..... that's how it works.

Bernie's people have to step out of their anger and realize this is way bigger than a single election, and could be a moment to prove that we actually mean it when we say "Together". This doesn't mean we like their candidate, we don't, but this is a chance to prove that we will stand with them when it is right.


Because, poc in particular, have been trying to fight voter suppression, alone, for a long time. This is not new by any measure, we needed more support then, so, why not now? Is this tribal or is this about principle?

Make no mistake, I'm with Bernie still, but I'm talking about democracy here.

[me b zola]

48. ^^This^^

I think that there are some Hillary voters who do care and would like to work together as a party to address the issue of voter disenfranchisement. It makes it difficult for people to come together when the discussion is begun with divisive language.

Come together...over voter disenfranchisement.

[Garrett78]

47. It stands to reason that Clinton was hurt worse than Sanders by what took place in AZ.

The bulk of the problems, as I understand, occurred in Clinton-friendly areas. Furthermore, Clinton's substantial victory was in line with polls leading up to the contest. She also won Florida by a large margin, and Florida's primary results typically mirror Arizona's primary results (historically speaking).

Obviously the voting system has numerous flaws, but it's safe to say Clinton was hurt more by what took place in Arizona.

[Rebkeh]

49. High turn out favors Bernie

More conservative and wealthier areas tend to favor Clinton, which is more Pima County than Maricopa.

I haven't seen any official numbers but what you say doesn't follow the trend.

[Garrett78]

50. Urbanites and Persons of Color favor Clinton.

In overwhelming numbers. And it's urban areas where you'll find extremely long lines.

[Rebkeh]

51. Any place will, with too few polling places nt

[Garrett78]

57. Sure, but where there are more people, there will be more issues.

Large cities tend to be Clinton-friendly. Areas with high concentrations of POC tend to be Clinton-friendly. This is the crux of why Clinton is so likely to become the nominee. She simply does better in diverse, delegate-rich states. Sanders does great in small states that lack diversity, but 'small' translates to delegate-poor.

And, again, polls leading up to the contest in Arizona had Clinton winning by a wide margin in a state whose primary typically mirrors Florida's, where Clinton won by an even larger margin. So, it's not as if Sanders was expected to win and the results defied explanation. Plus, I believe Arizona has a closed or at least semi-closed primary.

[GoneFishin]

52. They are well practiced at making excuses for her, so this is just more of the same.

[lmbradford]

53. Guess what I just read?

Helen, the lady in charge of elections in Maricopa County fiasco, is married to Joe. Joe was Bill Clintons lt. Governor in Arkansas. WHAT DO YOU KNOW? That is the 6th utter coincidence in NV. (Sarcasm)

[JoePhilly]

55. I'm pretty sure that's been debunked.

[bbgrunt]

59. It is shameful that she hasn't said squat about this