2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders and Warren are too far left and Hillary is too moderate...
That is why I am voting for Hillary. She is not as left as I would like but she wouldn't SHOCK the nation ( all of us inc repukes) in a way that would make repukes RISE and have their own revolution making it hard for progressives in the future. Anyone else with me?
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)After several decades of this, our End Zone is now past where the 50 yard line used to be.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I am super happy with Obama Biden. They are not as left as Bernie and Warren yet more left than Hillary. I want more of the same. Yes! I like the way we are going with the status qua
Wilms
(26,795 posts)What about war?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)has been trying to avoid war. You know, sadly, Americans are violent war lovers by nature and by history. We have more gun violence in USA which kills more than terrorism or terrorist. It's who we are. Look back 200 years until now. We have been killing innocent people since we arrived on this land. Change takes generations. I wish it could happen quick but people would go into shock . My opinion anyway
Wilms
(26,795 posts)That doesn't sound right, now does it?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Though.. I don't know.. seems like that has been who we are and have been since we massacred the Native Americans. We're ugly violent people by nature and by history. It's all very sad. If you think Obama is hawkish look at the other HALF of the USA on the RIGHT. Imagine that for a minute.. those people are roughly half of us. Sickens me. I want peace but getting there is complicated and I don't think Bernie could do it. He would just anger people more. If he wins the nomination though.. I would not be mad even if he is not my 1st choice. I am done with anger. I would pray everyday that he is successful.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Obama himself said it. But he did it in Libya, Egypt, Honduras, and Ukraine...all at the urging of Clinton.
Now why would you want to vote for that?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)As for the rest, I do not know how OK he is with it or not. It reflects poorly on them both. But it's only surprising to me regarding Obama. Hillary digs military solutions.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)be manipulated.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Go look up some articles or just vote for her and forget about it.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)This country was founded by Religious Zealots and you are surprised by their "righteous" destruction of those unlike them? This country has been ruled by the privileged and you are surprised that the poor remain poor.
This country restricted voting to only landowners (who in that day had to be wealthy to own property) - normal people like you and I could not vote (well especially me as I am a woman). And you are surprised that there is corruption in voting?
This country has killed those who do not succumb to the to the dream of "work will reward you with wealth"; "pull yourself up by your bootstraps to achieve". Our Founding Fathers were terrified the the scallywags and rabble.
And so you are surprised and will pick the moderate over hope or growth or evolution to a better America(n). For that I grieve.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)We have a choice this time, why support the most conservative candidate?
jfern
(5,204 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I mean NO ONE ever has endured the crap she has. Some true but most not.
jfern
(5,204 posts)And the Hillary campaign has been busy smearing Bernie too. Meanwhile, Hillary is under active investigation by the FBI, and there's a lot more shit that can come out against her.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)anytime you are a presidential candidate you will get criticism but you can not say his had been equal to Hillary. C'mon.
jfern
(5,204 posts)David Brock throws shit non stop. There have been plenty of smears.
Perogie
(687 posts)Sounds like what Republicans say when they deny things like Climate change and racism.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)go somewhere else. I am not angry. I have nothing but love for you.
Perogie
(687 posts)http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=25838
Supporting Unions, Reducing military, Supporting low income housing. This is where the Dems are now.
So to say Hillary is moderate is a joke. Compared to extreme Republicans of today yes she is moderate. Compared to Republicans of the 50's she's to the right of them.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)She is left of today's republicans and looks like all democrats are right of 50's republicans.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)[link:|
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)she is not. She's quite conservative. Now if you're happy with her positions and so on, then absolutely vote for her. But don't for one minute mistake her for a moderate, let alone a progressive.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)I am not. Sorry about that, have a lovely evening.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Look where that got us. No more...
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)DLC: Democrats for the Leisure Class
daleanime
(17,796 posts)'republican'.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)so they can see a difference.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)is to go further right? God, this country has gone nuts.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)You said moderate meant republican, right? Have 4 years of CRUZ and see if you still feel the same. I will vote BLUE no matter who to do my part and prevent that nightmare.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)that's your strawman. I've held my nose while voting for decades, take a look around, has it done anything good for us? Why should I want to vote for someone who will continue to waste american lives in non-stop wars for corporate profit?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)If you are not voting blue no matter who that's your right. I'm not mad at you. I want you to do what you think is best for you.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)I'm old with a bad heart, but I've got nieces and nephew's. My friends have kids. They need to have a chance for some kind of life, and as long as money is running the system that's not going to happen.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)that's all. I see things a bit different. That's ok though we're all differnet
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)He is a religious zealot fraud - who believes he can trick everyone to think he is Christian...which of course he is not.
The saddest part is that the hatred the Republicans created is so embodied in Cruz that he terrifies even them.
Hillary Clinton is sadly a conservative Christian. She believes that the government has a right to regulate woman's healthcare - and she believes in war - and she believes in American Exceptionalism. She is the true embodiment of what a Republican was when I was a young woman.
Pretending it is not true does not make it false.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I am very very sad to see Obama go.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Perhaps your calculations are errant?
ananda
(28,856 posts)They really aren't that far left, thinking in
terms of the capitalist system they both
support.
This shows how far to the right this country
has moved.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)FOR THE USA.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)As a result, the Democrats are afraid of calling out the Republicans for far-right policies, and we've been shifting rightward ever since.
Meteor Man
(385 posts)We certainly don't wanna move that Overton Window. Let's all roast some Smores over Hillary's kimbaya campfire.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)F.E.A.R.
The great god of our time.
In your plans and thoughts little decisions all day long. Not just you, everyone.
💡
Don't use your imagination so poorly.
It is just as easy to imagine an awesome outcome w Bernie winning:
more progressives winning seats in Congress, and real healthy change happening on a BIG scale.
yes we can have a voice.
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)I can no longer stand with the subtle and those full of greed. I will no longer vote the lessor of two evils. I will not be swayed by the many to abandon my hope.
The republicans cannot rise as they are surrounded by hate and fools. Your fear of their revolution are unfounded.
Stay strong and do not fear.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)He is too left for me and I am not ANGRY. I also respect your right to vote or not vote. Peace
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:46 AM - Edit history (1)
We are not fighting my friend. We just see the world quite differently. I grieve that fear has created such a huge split in the Democratic Party. A party I have been with for a very very long time...a party I believed in.
Fear of terror, fear of failure, fear of freedom have driven this wedge between us. Perhaps someday we will find our way.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)For the good of all of us.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Better to settle for somebody that can work with the GOP to move the nation in the right direction.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)They hate her because she's a symbol of the Democratic Party.
They don't hate Bernie Sanders quite as much because he's not a symbol of the Democratic Party.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)who knew?
delrem
(9,688 posts)She said it outright.
The first thing she'll do in office is unite with the Republican Party to invite Benjamin Netanyahu to the White House, to make amends the recent split.
Booyah!!
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Obama is right where I want to be...
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I am super happy with what he has been able to accomplish even with the repuke obstruction.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Careful there, you might bite into something substantial.
That'd be a shock!
Perogie
(687 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I wanted Biden to run.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Obama is where I am at.. He tried to be bi partisan but they would not work with him.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Pander right where he is at not to the right of him. I said Hillary was more right than I would like and Bernie is more left than I would like.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I want us to work together and come to something we can all palette.
astrophuss42
(290 posts)But I can't help but be critical when I've seen it change so much in my lifetime.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I saw a fb video just now and it made me cry.
https://www.facebook.com/HyphyDaSpider/videos/1057294844291059/
Lorien
(31,935 posts)Because Bernie is the most moderate politician running this year, and Hillary is to the Right of many past GOP candidates.
And what's "moderate" about her positions on:
Iraq
TPP
KXL
Pro arctic drilling
Pro for Profit Prisons
Pro Monsanto
Bankruptcy bill
Voting for a border fence
Saying child migrants should be sent home
Using her position as SoS to push fracking on the rest of the world
Wall Street donations
Six digit speaking fees
Taking money from weapons deals
Honduras
Comments about nuking Iran
Voted to raise credit card interest rates
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Opposing gay marriage in New York State
Brownbeck Amendments
Glass-Steagall
No living wage
No free college
No universal health care (ACA coverage gap....ACA will never provide UHC)
No medical Marijuana
Supports mandatory sentencing
Says that she's "proud of" the way Walmart does business
Libya
Yemen
Syria
Egypt
United States-Chile Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
United States-Singapore Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
Free trade - Oman agreement
Voted FOR Gitmo. --- Hillary voted against the Byrd ammendment and against a large majority of democrats to reduce Guatanamo funding by $36,000,000. She joined the republican majority against the majority of democrats in supporting Guantanamo.
Pro death penalty
Pro cluster bombing
Pro increased carcinogens in drinking water
Clinton policies lead to the largest mass incarceration of human beings in the history of the world
and the list goes on...
You can ask your boss. I'll wait.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Biden is at.. That is my comfort zone.
fourcents
(107 posts)Media are to the right of the populous.
quantass
(5,505 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)What positions do either Warren or Sanders have that are too far left? I am to the left of both of them on most issues. So, as far as I am concerned their proposals are a good start, but not the end game.
merrily
(45,251 posts)(Shock the nation, my ass)