Was it tougher for Obama to deal with racism or Hillary to deal with sexism?

[TomCADem]

I still think that it is often understated how so much animosity that is faced by President Obama from red states is due in large part to racism, and the candidacy of Donald Trump sort of underscores this.

However, while the idea of a post-racial society is a myth, is it more difficult for women to run for office than men? Does Hillary face sexism and to what degree does it hurt her chances? Or, does she benefit from being a woman in that folks vote for her based on her gender? Or, does the negative and positive cancel out?

[Kalidurga]

1. I think they are both difficult

I really don't know about degree. It's wrong for anyone to have those kinds of obstacles and it's very odd we should still be having these conversations, but people are still backwards in so many ways.

[benpollard]

2. Bernie has to deal with antisemitism.

Trump has to deal with prejudice against orange people.

[Lizzie Poppet]

9. Antiyamitism... (nm)

[rock]

3. I'm going with Obama for now

Let's see after she's been president a couple of years.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. i have faced both, the racism was harder for me

Growing up in the midwest, i was used to the sexism. Didn't realize it till i moved west for 10 years then went back to visit.
When i started dating a black man a few years later, i got a little taste of what they deal with everyday...it felt uglier.

[Hiraeth]

5. Why is your question in past tense? Do you think those isms are over?

[TomCADem]

8. Past Tense Means Up To This Point...

...not trying to speculate how sexism might affect a general election with Hillary as the nominee.

[Hiraeth]

15. Okay.

There are males and females in all the races.
So, that is the great divide and the reason it has always been known as:

The War Between the Sexes.

As you can see a Black Man was elected before a White Woman so, I think history of this country's politics bears this out.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

10. I think since they are talking about 2008, a past event, their use of the past tense is appropriate.

[Hiraeth]

16. okay.

[XemaSab]

6. Definitely the racism

Nobody is alleging that Hillary was not actually born in this country.

Obama's election made clear in my mind that a large chunk of people in this country don't see black people as actually American.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

7. Obama DID win, although he is a better campaigner than Hillary.

[TomCADem]

12. President Obama is a very gifted campaigner

I would actually put him ahead of Bill Clinton, who I think was actually better in making a personal connection with folks. I remember listening to John Edwards, and thought he was a pretty good campaigner, too, but it is too bad that he acted like an idiot in the end.

[bettyellen]

11. It is really difficult to quantify because it is not overt- or even conscious for most people.

When I read here that people think that sexism is only when people say obviously sexist things I realize how little DUers understand how it works. And that is sort of depressing. When you see Hillary attacked when other very similar Dems like Kerry, Gore and Dean were sainted for having the same positions and making the same votes, you do have to wonder.

The central meme used against her, that she lies- is one of the most insidious and pervasive aspects of how sexism works. People trust women less in the workplace. It is a well proven phenomenon. I don't think it is a coincidence that this meme resonates with people.

What is ironic is how many people who proscribe to that meme posting absolute bullshit from RW sources, and misquote articles to smear her. These people claim integrity is what really matters. I gotta give them the side eye.

[inchhigh]

19. Boy I suspect this is really going to sound divisive

And I dont believe it should but i really feel she benefits hugely from this phenomenon. She has a number of controversial shifts i her history but you cant talk about them without raising the issue of sexism. It prevents an honest discussion of those issues because everything devolves into a "Men are from Mars" debate. People say, you'd never make that claim against a man who took hundreds of thousands of dollars from big banks and I say YES I WOULD. They say you'd never mistrust a man for being on the wall Mart board and i say YES I WOULD. They say you d never mistrust a man just because his son in law is a hedge fund manager and i say YES I WOULD.

It is a well documented phenomenon that women tend to be viewed as less trustworthy. This causes her to get the benefit of the doubt in situations where her actions dont warrant it.

[bettyellen]

20. I think it gives her the opposite of the benefit of the doubt, because people are largely unaware

that they are holding her to different standards- and unaware how much they are bristling at the idea of a powerful woman.
I see her bring out a lot of primal feelings in people, many have literally said they do not like listening to her. Much is written here that is ignorant of her record and facile parroting or RW talking points.

I have never seen so many people here carry water for RW assholes. And they feel justified based on some visceral feeling. Sorry, but her voting record is so similar to Bernie's and most of the more liberal Dems that people twist themselves into pretzels to demonize her, it is beyond reason. These same people tirelessly supported candidates with similar or less liberal records, and now.... It's interesting to say the least. I would say many are at least as stupid as RW voters in choosing "straight talk" and who they want to have a beer with.

[4139]

13. Tougher for Obama but 'vote for me because I'm a woman' is a self inflicted negative...

Hillary and her supports are making the problem worse.

[CrispyQ]

14. I think there are a lot of people who think it's time to put a white man back in charge.

I think that is mostly repub thinking, but not entirely. I don't think HRC is the sure-thing that dem leadership seems to think.

[Betty Karlson]

17. Clinton gave Obama a very tough time (the Kenyan birth rumours were started by her campaign)

while he steared clear from sexism. I'd say he was both the one dealing with the toughest prejudice, and the better candidate at all times.

It's tim for Clinton to own up to her flaws, instead of hiding behind her pair of ovaries anytime someone cries foul. Some criticism is sexist, yes. But calling someone sexist for refusing to vote for Wall-Street's favorite polician? That is an insult to actual victims of sexism.

Calling someone sexist for refusing a candidate who voted for the Iraq War (and indirectly: for the death of all the women and children, and men, who perished in it)? - Insult to actual victims of sexism.

Calling someone sexist for refusing to vote for someone who was unconvincing and way too late on finally supporting gay rights? Insult both to actual victims of sexism and an insult to conscientious LGBT voters.

(The HRC which endroced Clinton, has now also endorsed Mark Kirk over Tammy Duckworth, even though his HRC rating 78%, against her 100%. Tells you how much such "establishment" endorsements really mean for LGBT interests. We can't afford another six years of Mark Krik, and I doubt we can afford four years of Clinton either. Praise nancy.)

[Punkingal]

18. I think racism is harder.

I am a white woman, so I don't know from experience, but has a woman ever been LYNCHED just because she is a woman?

[demmiblue]

21. Plenty of women have died just because they are women...

modalities may differ, but the outcomes are the same.

[thebeautifulstruggle]

22. How many votes is HC getting from women because she is a woman

my guess she is at a decided advantage when it comes to sexism

[TomCADem]

23. If so, why are there so few women governors, senators, etc.?

I understand that Republicans take the stance that disparities in pay and representation based on gender are due to differences in merit, which is why they have opposed measures such as the Equal Pay bill. However, you need only listen to the mysogonism that is going on in the Republican race to understand that there is still significant sexism.

[Fla Dem]

24. WOW. I give women much more credit for critical thinking.

Are we then to assume that men who vote for male candidates do so because they are male? There is no question that many woman would be thrilled to see a qualified woman president. The many women and men supporting HRC do so because she is an extremely qualified candidate and speaks to their issue. As a newbie, great way to insult a large segment of the DU community.

Talk about sexism. On full display in your post.

As a newbie, great way to insult a large segment of the DU community.