33% of Bernie Sanders Supporters Won't Back Hillary in the General

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

33% of Bernie Sanders supporters claim they will not support Hillary Clinton in the general election. This is the #BernieOrBust crowd. We discuss the pros and cons of being Bernie or Bust in this segment.

[RandySF]

1. Let's revisit this in October.

I doubt it will be the same.

[firebrand80]

2. Polls said the same in '08

Amounted to nothing

[BillZBubb]

6. That's funny! Hlllary is not Obama. She doesn't inspire people. And her negatives are astronomical.

[itsrobert]

16. Didn't she gather more votes than Obama?

And currently has 2 million more votes than Bernie.

Seems like she inspires plenty.

[BillZBubb]

47. Too funny. Democrats only. That's a sample taken from about 1/3 of the electorate.

The Clinton name gets her a big head start in the Democratic party. It doesn't translate outside the party.

[brush]

80. Well why isn't Sanders inspiring those Democrats?

I mean they are dem primaries.

[BillZBubb]

82. That's a fair question and I wish I knew the answer.

Perhaps the party has drifted too far rightward and there is no place in it for leftists. Or perhaps Hillary had too big an advantage with name recognition, money, fellow Third Way Democratic insiders, a primary schedule set up to be heavily front loaded with more conservative states more favorable to her. One thing that does seem to help her a lot is the short memory of many Democrats.

[dbackjon]

188. Or perhaps the concerns of the Bernistas are not the concerns of the Clinton voters

Take my in-laws - older, Hispanic (my mother-in-law was born in Mexico)

Goldman-Sachs or too big to fail? Not a concern, since the local banks never would lend to them anyways
Jobs to Mexico? Those jobs were never available to them anyways


What they do know is that Bill Clinton (and Hillary by association) was the first President that they felt actually cared about them, and spoke about their concerns and listened to them.


The Hispanic voters I know have VERY long memories, and that is helping Hillary.

[angrychair]

193. Interesting you said "long memories"

What did they actually get from all that listening?
To be blunt about it, Dems have a poor record for supporting minorities.
While PBO has done the DREAM Act, he has also deported more Hispanics than any other president in modern history.
While many blacks hail the Clintons, few specifics are given as to what specific laws are connected to them. At the same time many attribute the 1994 Crime Bill as have a dramatic and disparate impact on people of color.

The huge difference in prison populations and incarceration rates of people of color and whites is impossible to explain away as chance. Institutional racism is the only explanation.

So, out of honest curiosity, what specifically, came from being a good listener?

[Betty Karlson]

108. The graveyard whistle concerto, by H. Clinton and D. Brock. eom

[CorporatistNation]

25. I Think 33% Is About Right...

IF Dems want to win... then Bernie is the only choice. The cascade of Indys and Repubs and a solid cohort of Democrats who are pissed at the Establishment DNC and how they skewed the primary will come out hell bent for election to vote AGAINST CLINTON INC. with a vengence. Just a fact... Listen a little and you will hear this .

[brush]

63. So they'll vote against Clinton instead of vote against Trump?

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 11:19 PM - Edit history (3)

What a strange bit of fools' gold to brag about.

[TheFarseer]

85. Young people won't show up

Even more so than usual.

[brush]

96. That's proven to be true in most elections

The youth demographic votes less than any other so all this is probably not that important.

[rock]

30. And is the most admired woman

According to the Gallup poll.

[BillZBubb]

46. Yeah, when something like 7% wins the title, that's not saying much.

She's also the most reviled woman.

[rock]

50. Did I mention

She won like 10 years straight?

[Jackie Wilson Said]

151. Donald Trump thanks you for those comments.

[lewebley3]

177. Hillary is very inspiring she winning the nomination: Sanders people are GOP

[daleanime]

57. And yet if you're wrong....

it will some how be our fault, nice work when you can get it.

[KPN]

133. Excellent first response!

Hats off to you from a staunch Bernie supporter.

[Trenzalore]

3. They probably didn't vote for Obama either

Bernie attracts support from some interesting areas as well as traditional liberals.

[FarPoint]

7. I bet you are absolutely correct...

So, let us move forward.... Assessment completed.

[Avalux]

43. You think you know it all don't you?

The presumptuousness of Hillary supporters is rather off-putting. BTW - I voted for Obama twice, I've been a Dem my whole life, and well, not sure I would vote for Hillary. Telling me that I must force myself to do so to keep Trump out of office isn't a good enough reason.

[FarPoint]

45. So then..

You plan to move forward I take it?

[brush]

86. My God! What is a good enough reason then to keep Trump out of the White House?

Do you realize the magnitude of what you're saying?

Voting for someone who voted with Sanders 90% of the time is not enough to keep someone who is diametrically opposed to Bernie in every way and dangerous for the country is not a good enough reason?

Ya might wanna rephrase that.

[Avalux]

114. Ya might wanna dial it back a little bit.

I do realize what I'm saying, and Hillary as president is just as detrimental to the country as Trump. I don't see much daylight between the two.

[brush]

119. Oh boy! That's even worse.

[Svafa]

137. Avalux is not wrong.

There is less of a difference between Clinton and Republicans (Drumpf included) than there is between Sanders and Clinton.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[brush]

141. How do you account for them voting the same 90% of the time then?

Stop doing the repugs dirty work for them by spreading the "Clinton is a republican" meme.

Progressives should be able to recognize dirty-trick, repug talking points when encountered and know better than to just buy it hook, line and sinker.

Trump and other repugs have hinted at Sanders being a "commie" but you don't see Clinton supporters buying that bull crap and spreading it all over the internet.

[Svafa]

143. There is a world of difference in that ~10%.

Not to mention, her time in the senate is also only a small part of her political life; her tenure as SOS needs to be taken into account. And if she and her supporters want to consider her time as FLOTUS when discussing her political experience, then it's fair to consider the projects she supported then too.

No one here is a stranger to Clinton's more conservative stances. Support for NAFTA, DOMA, DADT, Iraq War, Wall Street bailout, fracking, no-fly zone in Syria, Honduran coup....Sure sounds like she has an awful lot more in common with republicans than she has in common with Sanders.

[brush]

148. Here's some interesting reading that dispells many repug talking points floated here regularly

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/26/honest-and-unmerciful-an-open-letter-to-matt-taibbi-of-rolling-stone-magazine

Here's a quote from the article which is an open letter to reporter Matt Taibi:

Like most Hillary critics, you took aim at her out-of-context quote taken on young African-American men who became known as "super-predators" at the time. If you had done even a tiny bit of research, you would have realized that not only did Clinton use this term a single time but she used it to specifically describe gang members and not all African-American males. The fact that you took this smear as being factual shows that you, like many others in the media, were duped into believing something that simply was not true.

[Svafa]

150. What are you talking about? I didn't say a single thing about "superpredators."

I brought up the legitimate grievances progressives should have with her rather conservative and hawkish record. The article you linked to mentioned the Iraq War, but it made no mention of ANY of the other things I brought up. And I'm sorry, but how the hell is criticizing someone for supporting shitty "free" trade deals, discriminatory legislation, and interventionist military strategy a republican talking point? Last time I checked, those are all things that most republicans are quite fond of.

[kaleckim]

181. I'd love

for you to play the clip of her saying that to a room full of black people and make the argument you just made there. You wouldn't have the damn guts. She apologized for good reason and, besides, it wasn't just the word she used but the reason she was using it. She did push for very harsh sentencing laws, she did support prison privatization (some of those groups have been bundlers for her campaign this election cycle) and she and her husband did gut social programs that benefited the poor. The cuts decimated the black community and yet they bragged about those cuts for years, ending big government as we know it, and all that horribleness.

I have to ask, people like yourself call this stuff "repug talking points". What would a left wing critique of her look like? Cause it seems you people struggle seeing the difference, which is mind blowing. A left wing critique of her would apply even more to them.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

154. Some folks here are bound and determined to not support Hillary and they dont give

a good god damn how that ultimately hams others.

And no, NOT in the primary, in the GE.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

132. I'll bet you're both wrong. In fact, I know you are.

[BillZBubb]

9. That's not true of the left of the Democratic party. We voted for Obama.

Probably a lot of the independent voters supporting Bernie did as well.

[Trenzalore]

14. I certainly don't mean all Sanders supporters

However anecdotally the guy from high school on my Facebook that hovers between Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders and is Bernie or Bust doesn't like Obama.

I assume those types with confusing political leanings who are attracted to Bernie for being an outsider will not be embracing Hillary Clinton if she were the nominee.

[TBF]

37. I have voted for every Democratic presidential candidate since 1992 -

and I will be voting for Bernie this fall. One way or another. (I also actively volunteered on Obama's campaign).

[Jackie Wilson Said]

156. Trump thanks you.

[Politicalboi]

12. I voted for Obama twice

And would so again if possible.

[Trenzalore]

15. Are you Bernie or Bust?

If not, the comment really wasn't directed towards you.

[restorefreedom]

66. most people are not going to directly answer that question

it is clear that admins want to be more strict about tos at this point, so anyone who outright says they will not vote for the dem nom (no matter who it is) risks a hide or even perhaps a ban.

and questions or posts designed to elicit such responses are probably also at risk of being hidden or banned i would imagine


it starts getting very tricky here as the primaries move along

[timmymoff]

24. she did

if you counted Michigan, like Hillary tried, knowing they were on double secret probation. Hillary went on the ballot, but Obama didn't. She's a scammer all the way from 08 and before

[TrueDemVA]

33. Not true

I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, Kerry in 2004 and Gore in 2000. I have always voted Democrat. This year is no different, that's why I am voting for the only person that represents what the Democratic Party stands for, Bernie Sanders. With all of that being said, I will not vote for Hillary and that is my choice whether you agree with it or not.

I don't feel like my vote should go towards someone who hasn't guaranteed to protect and strengthen social security, who doesn't want to fight for single payer insurance, who continues to hold private fundraisers for the elite only, who voting for an awful war, someone who feels glass steagall is not needed, someone who continues to take money from the private prison industry along with many other scumbag donors, etc. The list can keep going, but I think you get the picture.

The establishment needs to go.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

55. Instead you want to help along someone who is for all that plus even worse.

[840high]

59. I don't know that. With

Hillary I know. Will not vote for her. Bernie '16

[TrueDemVA]

68. You're looking the wrong direction

Blame Hillary and DWS and the establishment sellouts for turning their backs on us.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

74. No I will blame anyone who is stubborn enough to give us a Repub President.

Whoever causes that. When you saw 8 years of Bush, wasn't that enough to scare the hell out of you?

[TrueDemVA]

75. I will not ask you to understand

Last edited Mon Mar 28, 2016, 05:46 AM - Edit history (1)

You have your reasons and I have mine. I wish you luck with all sincerity.

[Maedhros]

178. You know who is giving you that Republican President?

The Party establishment that is shoehorning Hillary into the nomination.

If the Party wants votes, then they should nominate a candidate that will earn them.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

157. If you wont vote for Hillary in GE then Trump thanks you.

[Silver_Witch]

34. You are wrong...

I voted for President Obama TWICE. You are wrong. President Obama has not endorsed Hillary Clinton so your point it silly.

[Andy823]

41. I bet

A vast majority of them never voted for a Democrat in their life!

[kaleckim]

182. So, naturally

mock them and don't give them a coherent argument about why Clinton will improve their lives. That's a way to grow your party and to clean out the corrupt crooks running it. Does the left in the US give a damn anymore about providing a true alternative to the right? I'm not talking about the "we're less bad than Republicans" type of alternative. The trade model that Democrats like Clinton have supported has been horrible in practice, same with her hawkish foreign policy, her corruption, etc. Do Democrats care anymore to provide, for example, a radically different trade model? Democrats like the Clintons and Obama don't, and most in the Democratic Party don't seem to give a damn. Maybe it is turning into the party of a relatively well off group of people that could largely give a damn about the poor (or avoiding ecological collapse, since that would necessitate radical changes), that maybe have a gay friend and are pro-choice.

[onecaliberal]

76. You're sorely mistaken, and no doubt a reason why people here are turned off from her.

[basselope]

163. I know I didn't.

I unfortunately, turned out to be right about him.

Another center right politician.

Although, TBH he does gain a title formerly held by Bill Clinton. The best republican president of my lifetime.

[Maedhros]

179. I voted for Obama once, then he showed me what kind of President he was.[n/t]

[BillZBubb]

4. A lot of Bernie's supporters are independents or not regular voters who Bernie has motivated.

It doesn't surprise me at all that a large number of them won't vote for Hillary. She doesn't do well with independents and she won't inspire the discouraged people to vote. On the left of the Democratic party, she'll lose a smaller percentage of the Bernie voters, but it will still be a considerable number.

[FarPoint]

5. So, what do you want to happen?

[SidDithers]

8. Goodman. LOL...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/33-percent-of-bernie-sanders-not-vote-hillary_b_9475626.html



Sid

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

11. Which both goodman and Humanist report are quoting a Wall Street Journal poll... nt

[SidDithers]

22. Welcome to DU...nt

Sid

[Politicalboi]

10. We're supposed to give in to those that

Suppress our vote? Those who call us Teabaggers just because we want honesty in a candidate, we are called right wing nuts. We are showing people MONTHS ahead of this election the outcome if Hillary is the nominee. There's time to change that. Or you can let FBI investigations not bother you. They bother me. You may not want to see how she speaks of the 99% behind closed doors, but I do. Is she going to show us? No she is not.

[840high]

60. that^

[musicblind]

122. By "change that" you mean "vote your way or else" ...?

And for the record, I voted for Bernie my NC primary. However, I am also a Hillary supporter. So do not think that all Bernie voters are the same. You can love Bernie and like Hillary. So don't buy into the B.S.

[brooklynite]

13. 1) the BERNIE OR BUST gang will end up voting for Clinton, despite what an internet video says

2) there are many Democrats, Independents and even Republicans who will vote for Clinton, despite not voting in the Primary at all.

In 2008, Obama got 18 M votes in the Primary...and 65 M vote sin the General Election.

[peace13]

17. Needless worry!

[Onlooker]

18. That number will drop ...

... otherwise, it's the end of Bernie's movement. Hillary will move to the center if she can't get the left. But, I think in the end most Sanders supporters will back the nominee. Ultimately, reason will prevail over passion. They are not going to allow a fascist to be elected, unless they really don't care about the day to day lives of those who struggle against the inequities of our society.

[strategery blunder]

28. Hillary's going to move to the center regardless.

Her supporters are trying to push "Bernie can't win so he should just drop out" so she can do it sooner.

[marions ghost]

40. "Hillary will move to the center if she can't get the left"

WILL move to the center?

[bvar22]

172. Should be changed to read,

Hillary WILL move further to the conservative Right regardless of what happens.

[marions ghost]

184. Yep

I never know which way the wind's gonna blow. But I know one thing, Hillary is no progressive. And Rightward Ho is always on the table on any issue. She has proven that.

"Camp Weathervane" is really appropriate nick for her campaign.

[cloudythescribbler]

19. As a Bernie supporter, I doubt these numbers will hold up ...

and it is one thing that people like me need to do to insist that, if Hillary is the nominee, as many Sanderistas support her as possible

I would say that all the snark and trashing of Bernie and of Sanderistas on DU doesn't make the abovementioned task any easier should it become necessary

If Hillary is the nominee, it is very important that a LOT of specific and concrete concessions be made at the Convention to Bernie's views on many issues. The rhetoric in the campaign of trying to coopt Bernie counts for zilch. That does not mean that she will embrace "MediCare for All", but at least the Democratic platform should have measures (in addition to the positive steps Hillary already is committed to) to insist on a public option EVERYWHERE, and also to insist on legislation that would specifically allow states -- or groups of states joining together in a single plan -- to adopt single-payer WITHOUT negatively prejudicing federal health dollars to the state. Probably the Democrats should call for a return to a revamped and updated version of Glass-Steagall, recognizing that abandoning it was a mistake.

There are a lot of absolute demands that should be made regarding election process, including NO "closed" primaries or caucuses, not only ditch Debbie Wasserman Schultz but ALL those in the leadership of the Democratic Party who are similarly tilted towards the neoliberals beyond strict limits of fairness and balance. And the progressive wing of the party should demand equal representation as the neoliberals. The debates issue has to be decided upon in a more democratic way in form and content.

This could go on and on, but the point is that there are very concrete measures that Hillary -- and her supporters on DU -- could take to minimize any defection. Likewise if Bernie gets the nomination, key concerns of Hillary and her supporters would also have to be adequately addressed.

This is NOT like in 08, because unlike then, there were many more major differences in the ideology and platform of the competing Democratic candidates (and eg, on the health insurance mandate, Obama ended up doing what Hillary argued for and he against in the debates). Obama, to my disappointment, turned out to be another neoliberal rather than at least straddling the two wings of the Democratic Party and being a cagey progressive at heart. Perhaps it was delusion even to hope that that degree of progressivism would be allowed in the White House, but anyhow ...

This election year is very different, and the split between the two wings of the Democratic Party is much clearer -- and needs to be addressed at every level so we don't end up with ANYONE like Trump in the White House
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I am doing on EVERY thread where I post on the primary race b/t Hillary and Bernie, my reminder that DUers should devote at least 20% of the time and money devoted to the presidential primary fight to Congressional concerns, getting a Democratic senate and as close to a Democratic House as possible -- no more GOP House "gerrymandority".

[Silver_Witch]

35. Hillary and Her Supporters Don't

want us or respect us...so why would we want to join her club. I don't go where I am needed.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

62. Believe me, we want you. I was a McGovern supporter so I can certainly relate to you.

Always followed Bernie, made sure to watch any time he was on a show before this. I just don't like the fact he is saying he may not support Hillary. I thought he was better than that.

[ThePhilosopher04]

20. In my opinion, it'll be closer to 40-45% which will be plenty enough to sink her in the general.

I don't think she can win anyway given her historically high negatives across the country.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

21. Shhhh! Those Negatives are a right wing conspiracy...

How dare you question the queen's coronation.

[ThePhilosopher04]

23. Facts are inconvenient for some

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Res ipsa loquitur

Mrs. Clinton won the hard-fought Democratic race in California, where both she and Mr. Obama had sought the state's wealth of 370 delegates to be chosen on Tuesday. According to early returns, Mrs. Clinton had strong showings in Los Angeles, Santa Clara and San Diego. Early exit polls showed Mr. Obama running strongly among African-Americans, white men, younger voters and liberals. Mrs. Clinton did well among Hispanics, white women, moderates and those who described themselves as "somewhat conservative." Those who identified themselves as Democrats tended to choose Mrs. Clinton; "independents or something else" overwhelmingly voted for Mr. Obama. A majority of Californians who were surveyed said they made up their minds in the last month. The economy was ranked most often as the top issue facing the nation, followed by the war in Iraq and health care. There were signs that both Democratic camps were growing polarized; only half of the voters said they would be satisfied if either candidate became the nominee.

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/CA.html

California -General Election

Barack Obama John McCain
Percentage 61.01% 36.95%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_California,_2008

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Sow the wind... harvest the whirlwing

and I blame a lot of HRC supporters who have created a very toxic environment, and continue to do so, for this. I even had an OP a few months ago predicting this very issue.

Try to win that GE without the progressive vote. I dare you... in two two four presidential cycles it might be over, but the realignment is far from complete.

In comparison, only 7 percent of HRC supporters would stay home at this moment in time.

[Sheepshank]

94. Daring Hillary to win?

Bwaaah haa haa haa

What a fucking joke, these continued threats. It seems to be fine and dandy when Bernie woos Republicans for votes, but you and your cohorts would fucking freak out if Hillary does the same.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. It is not a threat

And it is folks like you who have created this environment.

Political realignments are fun, especially in the middle. You need those voters, but you despise them. And the GOP dissolution is not over either. For the record, it is them who will replace the left you despise. (Whatever remains). By the way, I am addressing the fucking OP and current polling, not your imagined threats.

[Sheepshank]

102. For months BS supporters flooded this board, badgered alert stalked and swarmed with comments like:

of Stockholm syndrome, nasty on going insults to AA persons being too stupid to know that Bernie should be their guy, and the famous:

On second thought I take that big FUCK YOU back. I wouldn't fuck you even with someone else's dog's cock. You have proven yourself to be utterly and irretrievably morally repugnant. You have stooped to depths that are lower than whale shit in the fucking Marianas trench. There's a lot of pressure down there for anyone with a shred of fucking decency but once your balls are shriveled to the obvious pinhead size it affects the brain and there's little left than to attempt to smear the shit on the walls when it didn't stick whilst you were flinging it.

And you say Hillary supporters created a climate?

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. And Hillary Clinton supporters questioned my

Last edited Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Minority status. By the way, some continue to do it. The same fans have denied that minorities have voted for BS. And it gets worst, the memes and false narratives are to the point that people have had it. By the way who your party nominates is your business. My vote is none of your business. But I am an independent voter in California. Guess what, you need me too in November. It's not a threat, it is reality. You and Republicans are the minority of voters in this country. And CA has an open democratic primary as well m'kay.

There is more, the aggressive hate and antisemitic smears from HRC supporters are not limited to DU. Truly I wish they were They are all over social media. There is a mirror over there, take a good look.

And no, I will never ever forget having my self identity questioned by HRC supporters m'kay. You ran in general terms, I talk personal.

Oh and alert stalking, you are telling that to me who has been bullied and harassed and alert stalked for more than a decade. We are close to 16 years now actually, I think. You realize how funny that sounds right?

[Sheepshank]

125. so that is the same level of nasty as what was in the quote I gave you?

don't.make.me.laugh.

Anti semetism is often manufactured at the hands of Sanders supports such as was recently thrown out, and one that you jumped on for a person using the Irish Cross. Yes, that was your personal Nazi attack on a fellow DUer just in the last day or so.

And while you are upset that your heritage was called into question, your cohorts have also stated that I was antisemitic. That is a level of nasty I never thought I'd see on this BB. There is personal for you. You don't have a corner on the market.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Having my self identity questioned is not nasty?????

and personally having been attacked on and off site is not nasty? Cry me a fucking river at this point

[Sheepshank]

127. I don't need to cry you a fucking river...you're doing great all by yourself n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. You are a textbook example

of why you guys will suppress the vote. The lack of self awareness is just great.

I am just going to enjoy the show.

[Sheepshank]

129. and making up shit, and labeling is exactly the crappola I've been dealing with for months.

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. So I made it up that people queationed my self identity?

and that they were HRC supporters? How is that? You were on that site, and you know it.

Or I made it up that one of you guys followed to RSD with lovely feeling to spread about a dead parrot? Really? As I said. that lack of self awareness is great. I will enjoy the show, The anger is not feigned at these racist tactics anymore. And it is the HRC supporters doing it. Variations on the Southern Strategy are not playing well anymore.

[Sheepshank]

131. this is exactly the making up shit I was talking about.

My post was responding to your post #128.

I already responded to your post about your heritage. It is completely disingenious to parse out a line from an unrelated post and apply it as if it were a direct response elsewhere. You do not score brownie points for such actions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. This is not making up shit

this is questioning what you are saying, This actually is actually real. People are tired of this racist shit,

It is exactly that, racist shit. Get it now? STOP!

#berniemademewhiate. Go fucking read it and perhaps buy a clue while you are at it.

[Sheepshank]

136. oh dear, not only am I a nazi and antisemitic, but a racist too?

How does work when you have no idea about my heritage?....what it means is that you are making up shit.

I have not posted on the thread you are referencing...Why should I care what is said there...I already gave you a fine example of what was posted in the HRC Group by one of your finest.

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. I have told you what is going on

it was the choice of the HRC campaign (and the media) to use dog whistles. The anger is quite real now.

GO buy a clue. I am not making this up. People will NOT FUCKING COME OUT FOR HER in NOVEMBER because of this shit. GET IT NOW?

And some followers are indeed racists and antisemite. One actually got her cover blown at DKOS in the recent past by her own fucking posting. Now her avatar is one used by well known antisemites as well. Yes the celtic cross is what it is these days.

[Sheepshank]

139. your escalating rage seems too manufactured

you get all worked up when you make all sorts of presumption and assumptions that you feel offended you alone, but ignore the reality of your cohorts actions. you really need to chill out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. Not escalating

But certainly can understand why facts are escalating to you

[Sheepshank]

158. you have yet to produce escalating facts. haa haa haa n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

159. Well those who are blind to what is going on

I am certainly positive you cannot see it

So here are some facts.

To the celtic cross as as symbol of white supremacy groups, take that with the ADL

http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-on-display/c/celtic-cross.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/#.VvmjIRIrKRs

As to the anger among PoC over this... well you might want to go correct these folks

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BernieMadeMeWhite&src=tyah

Let me know if you do, because it will be humorous, Some choice tweets

Raw Story ‏@RawStory 9h9 hours ago
#BernieMadeMeWhite: Meet the writer who called out the media for erasing people of color http://ow.ly/ZZprU



He is a white guy as you can see

Then there is this white washing happening

https://twitter.com/i/moments/714209875191054338

They are also white as you can see

:large

Then there is this, toon is fantastic

Latinos for Bernie ‏@Latinos4Bernie 22h22 hours ago
When #BernieMadeMeWhite, my neighbor could vouch for me at the voting booth, no ID required.

:large

See, you ignore this at your peril. Myself. I am real tired of this shit... and no longer consider HRC supporters allies in the fight, we are to that point, You are an example of why. You continue to ignore this at your peril. But this racism will be rather unhelpful in the end.

Oh and tell your fiend, I ain't escalating a thing. I know that this will not make a dickens of sense to you, Partisans are usually blind. Myself... well party realignments, I consider this racist shit part of that party realignment.

[Sheepshank]

160. I suppose I could post before and after pics of crystal meth users, and a bunch of tweets

....but it has nothing to do with this sub thread...just as this ridiculous post you just made has nothing to do with you, your claims of ethnic status being questioned and this sub thread.

These posts are not only escalating in anger and frustration, but heading into the absurd.

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. It has all to do with it

as I said, you are blind. That is fine with me. Have an excellent day. I can only do this,

[Sheepshank]

165. and the ridiculous continues

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/cartoon-logic-what-netanyahus-un-speech-and-the-absurd-911-myth-have-in-common-2472320.html&h=339&w=424&tbnid=kVwcDd-KBvxVJM:&docid=q2fWqduceovd2M&ei=oar5VqTiKYu8jgSxzrqoCA&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwjktobfseTLAhULnoMKHTGnDoUQMwguKBEwEQ

[nadinbrzezinski]

166. Yup I find the erasing of minorities ridicolous

we agree



I find it to be... what is word I am looking for rrr... rrraaa... racist

[Sheepshank]

167. Oh, did you make another ASSumption? Another shit stirring attempt

another fine example of taking one reply and applying it incorrectly. Your are not any better at it this time, than you were the first time to your tried to do it.

this stinking pile is a perfect example of your MO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

169. My MO I showed evidence

you are the one still denying this is hurting YOUR CANDIDATE. I don't care what you think. It is what it is. And it is not funny. The anger is real, Live with it, or not, I really don't give two shits about it.

[Sheepshank]

170. two shits

[treestar]

145. why would you not vote in November

according to your own self interests? Why would you take actions not in your own interests because of what some people said a few months back especially on a message board?

[nadinbrzezinski]

147. I will, who I vote for

Have you heard of secret ballots? They are kind of a standard. Even in our pretend elections. Who I vote for is between me, my pillow and my husband maybe the conure, but she does not tell. Or if she does, she is not talking English, just conure.

Trust me on this. I tend to vote my values, even in these pretend times. At least I can complaint since I pretended to vote in a pretend election.

Oh and this shit will depress turnout.

[treestar]

149. everyone would do what is best for themselves

regardless of what shit was said on message boards months before. I would hope no one gets in their own way by doing what is against their own interests simply due to someone they did not like saying something they did not like, especially on a message board.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. DO you understand how hurtful it is what HRC supporters have done

and how their actions will depress the vote? And how the actions of the campaign itself (and the media) are leading to real anger? Do you even pretend to get it?

By the way, just like the anti Obama feelings of the 2008 campaign were bad, the antisemitism is actually just as bad. I guess spots cannot be changed when running a modified southern strategy race, and it should be intolerable in the US,


Trump gets the lion's share of the rising antisemitism and other forms of racism, but she does share some of it. The dog whistles are what they are... hell, they left the dog whistle stage already.

[Bad Dog]

29. Why not have a forum just for polls.

Everybody argues on partisan lines and none of them mean anything anyway.

[hrmjustin]

31. Those numbers will not hold.

[Silver_Witch]

32. I guess Hillary and her Supporters...

better figure out a way to win them over. That is HER job - not Bernie supporters job.

And HINT - the way Hillary Supporters talk about and to us will not win us over.

Just saying.

[beachbumbob]

36. 33% of sanders supporters who are in the end supporting trump are NO

Supporters of sanders or can call themselves democrats..liberals .....or progressives..

[ThePhilosopher04]

39. Let me ask you, using your logic ...

would the Cruz or Kasich supporters who refuse to vote for Trump in the general, be guilty of supporting the Democratic nominee?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

53. There's supposedly many Repubs who will vote Dem instead of Trump. Esp. women for Hillary.

They had a poll saying that a large number of Republican women (and suburban women) really dislike Trump I think either candidate would get a pretty good number of them.

[TBF]

38. The question is whether Hillary supporters will back Bernie -

why are you assuming Hillary will be the candidate? After the blow out this weekend I wouldn't count my chickens before they are hatched.

[Logical]

42. I think Hillary is terrible, but I will vote for her and most Bernie supporters will in the end. nt

[MineralMan]

44. And 99% of Clinton supporters will vote

for the party's nominee. What does that tell you?

[BillZBubb]

49. It tells me Bernie is not as reviled as Hillary.

Hillary voters could support him. And they'd be smart if they did.

What does it tell you?

[MineralMan]

52. I stand by what I said.

I will absolutely vote for the Democratic nominee. You will do as you choose.

[BillZBubb]

54. Well, good for you.

[MineralMan]

58. I'm a Democrat, you see.

I have been all my adult life. I campaigned for JFK in 1960, and for every Democratic presidential candidate since. I'll be doing the same this year. It's what I do.

[840high]

64. Looks like we both started

with JFK. This is the first time in my life I'm going to vote for America and the 99%. It feels good to vote for rather than against.

[NorthCarolina]

174. Tells me exactly what everone already knew to be true.

Bernie is picking up Independents in the primaries. Hillary has ZERO appeal outside the Democratic Party. Those are just facts.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

48. 19% said they'd vote for Kasich. So most likely they don't mind seeing a Republican in there.

[Maedhros]

180. The Democratic rank-and-file have demonstrated a consistent pattern:

When a Republican is in the White House they fight against war, corporate campaign financing, and civil rights abuses.

When a Democrat is in the White House, they defend and justify all these things. Since the Republicans are in favor of these things, there is no resistance to them.

One benefit of a Republican Presidency is that rank-and-file Democrats will at least go through the motions of opposing this shit, rather than cheering it.

[Amimnoch]

51. I wonder what percentage of Hillary supporter won't support Bernie in the GE?

Especially after much of mud that's come from his campaign and his devoted at her and her supporters.

[phleshdef]

56. Consider me part of the 67%

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. I'll be voting for a candidate that I prefer.

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. John Quincy Adams

[LowOiL]

87. Yep

If you don't stand firm on principle then people (and party) take you for granted the next election.

Time to take a stand, and show that your vote is worthy of being respected.

[creeksneakers2]

100. If you don't want to go along with what the party decides

then you shouldn't participate in the primaries. You aren't taking a stand if you are participating now but won't vote later. You are dishonestly trying to take advantage of those who will honestly support the nominee if your guy wins, but then deciding you aren't going to reciprocate because you are brave or something. I have no respect for your vote at all.

[Democat]

106. A vote against the Democratic candidate is a vote against gay rights, women, POC, Muslims, etc

Anyone who helps Trump get elected is not a liberal.

I don't care which Democrat wins, we need to beat Trump.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

111. I'm not voting for Trump.

I'll be voting for the candidate I prefer. Who isn't against gay rights, women, POC, Muslims, etc.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

65. The Naderites thought they might change things but instead we got Bush policies. No-one revolted

except us lefties. We were allowed to protest behind fences several blocks away from Bush. So if you think it's the noble thing to allow a Republican in look at the Bush-Cheney years.

[Meteor Man]

83. Calling Bullshit

Nader was not responsible for Bush. His voters were not responsible for Bush.
Al Gore and the Democratic party lost that election. Did the Democratic party move left to capture progressive voters. Noooooo! The Democratic party moved even further right and put DWS at the head of the DNC.
So why on earth would we support a candidate and party that treats us with derision and scorn?

[creeksneakers2]

101. If you don't like the party

then don't participate in it by voting for or arguing for Bernie Sanders.

[Democat]

105. If Nader had endorsed Gore there would have been no Iraq War

Tell your Nader excuses to the families of the dead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. If tens of thousands of conservadems voted for Gore

In Florida we would not have had an Iraq war. What about them? They crossed for Bush, and Reagan too. I don't thnk you should play that game Amirite?

[FlatBaroque]

113. #AnyoneButHer including a half eaten ham sandwich /

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. There's a couple of Hillary talking points that are particularly stupid

1) Bernie is a candidate that whites will vote for!
2) They won't vote for Hillary in the general!

Both of these arguments only make sense if maintaining purity through losing the general election is the point of this whole exercise.

[Starry Messenger]

69. Always good to have a precise count of idiots.

[Vote2016]

70. Does this surprise anyone? I'm sure 95% of DU's Sanders supporters in key states would pinch their

nose and vote Hillary if worst comes to worst, but the "d" in DU is Democratic (put me in this camp).

Sanders has huge support among those without our fondness for the Democratic party (liberal libertarians, progressive independents, Greens, etc.).

Why would they support Hillary who they see (with some justification) as an architect and apologist for the broken status quo?

Also, think of the Progressive Democratics in deep blue or deep red states: their vote will not turn the statewide outcome either way. Why would they NOT vote Green in protest against a status quo establishment conservative Democratic nominee? What's the harm in their protest vote so long as they vote for the progressive Democrats down ballot?

Let's focus on making sure that ALL Democrats in ALL battleground states vote for Sanders or (gods forbid) Hillary no matter who is our nominee?

Why lament that Hillary cannot possibly win Sanders' liberal libertarian supporters, his progressive independent supporters, his Green party supporters, his Regan ex-Democrat Republican supporters, his *gasp* socialist supporters? Hillary has written off these voters off so she needs to win without them or we need to nominate Sanders (and you know where I lie down on that issue).

Why fret about these votes? If we want them, they are within our grasp - just nominate Sanders! If we don't want these votes, surely Jill Stein and Donald Trump and "stay at home" are the alternatives these people will choose.

[Nonhlanhla]

71. So we should stop supporting Hillary

because a third of Bernie voters are too immature...err "politically pure" to support Hillary in the GE?

What a load of bovine excrement. Why should we bow before blackmail?

Let them support whom they want, and let the chips fall where they may. I won't be blackmailed.

[MisterP]

72. pros and cons aside, this is a TREMENDOUS red flag for her strength in the GE

not just that she's disliked but that every deck has been stacked to prevent any challenge once the DNC finally comprehended the concept that anyone could be defeating such a "strong candidate"

many of them are indeed "not Democrats"--because they've been squeezed out of the party because their needs interfered with the donors' desires; so between the choice of being listened to or ignored, they're going to pick one and not show up for the other

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511587567

[Beacool]

73. Meh.........

[benpollard]

77. People are caught up in the primaries

Why is this even a thing?

[Corey_Baker08]

78. That 33% Will Be Responsible For A President Trump...

That 33% Will Be The Reason We Will Have A 6-3 Tea Party Majority Supreme Court Of The United States.

That 33% Will Be The Reason Roe V Wade Is Overturned

That 33% Will Be The Reason The LGBT Community Will Lose Their Civil Rights

I Could Go On & On But Pretty Sure You Get The Point...

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

79. Is that a threat? Or Blackmail? nt

[Corey_Baker08]

88. No That's The Reality Of The Situation

I've Read So Much About Bernie Or Bust Voters, However I Haven't Seen One Post From A Hillary Supporter(S) Pledging Not To Vote For Sanders If He Is The Democratic Nominee...

Bernie Or Bust Supporters Are Not Real Democrats, Real Democrats Vote For The Democratic Nominee For The Sake Of The Country & The Consequences Of A Republican President...

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

89. You have it backwards...

The democratic candidate has to earn people's vote; they don't automatically get many people's vote just because they have a D next to their name. I and many others do not respond well to attempt to use fear to force us in line; fact of the matter for me is that without Bernie Sanders I would never have gotten invested in politics finally, including paying attention, donating, and phonebanking.

[creeksneakers2]

92. No

When you participate in the party you are part of a deal where everybody pledges to support the winner. Your candidate participated in the party to take advantage of that strength. Not supporting the nominee is dishonest.

[Democat]

107. Wrong, liberals need to vote for the Democratic candidate over Trump

You can't claim that you support liberal policies if you help elect a right wing racist. If you help elect a right wing racist, then you are part of the problem.

I don't care which Democratic candidate wins, we all need to work together to beat Trump.

Stop thinking only about yourself and start thinking about people who would suffer under a Trump presidency.

[Cobalt Violet]

116. Do we have to vote for someone to the right of Reagan and Bush.

I won't. I don't agree with anything she is selling.

[AgerolanAmerican]

93. it's blackmail

[baldguy]

110. "Bernie or Bust" is blackmail.

[Meteor Man]

84. Wrong!

G Nobody will be responsible for losing the election besides the candidate and the Democratic party.
After blaming Naderites for Gore's loss the Democratic party moved right. Good job Rahm and DWS! The party has treated progressives with scorn and derision for a couple of decades.
ALL OF A SUDDEN you are shocked that Berniacs won't fall in line? Really?

[Rass]

98. Bernie is more electable

Hillary is gonna need to cheat with her super-delegates to win. She also needs to avoid FBI criminal prosecution. Then there is the poor decision making on Iraq. You don't find these qualities repulsive as a democrat? She has too much baggage. The republicans are gonna eat her alive in the debates.

Why not just support a true progressive candidate with less baggage and avoid all of this mess? Shaming Bernie supporters will get you nowhere. Bernie's campaign wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the failures of the Obama administration. The people are sending Bernie to finish the job to get real change. We are tired of the corruption which Hillary has been more than happy to be a part of.

[farleftlib]

171. ^This^

She's been cheating and playing dirty all along. It's a turn-off but the real reason people are against her is because she has too much baggage and no principles. Hillary is for Hillary.

Republicans hate her, Independents won't vote for her and her own party is deeply divided over her. It's not D vs. R this time around, it's the corrupt system vs. American citizens. Bernie is the only chance for real change.

[CharlotteVale]

118. No, Hillary Clinton will be the reason.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

134. Say what you want, but I know who I'm blaming if we run a shitty and corrupt candidate.

[YOHABLO]

81. No if Hillary gets the nomination, Bernie Sanders will go out and campaign for her.

There is way too much at stake in this country in terms of the direction it will go if the right wing nuts take over. Yeah, Hillary has some negatives, and so does Obama. But the bottom line is we can work with Hillary, the Republicans will work for the MIC and Wallstreet. No, Hillary Clinton is a very qualified candidate and will get my vote if nominated. It's too early to be putting this kind of garbage out there.

[creeksneakers2]

90. Other polls show different numbers

"And each side's supporters say they would support the other candidate: among Sanders' supporters, 19 percent say they would not support Clinton, while just 11 percent of Clinton's supporters would not support Sanders."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-leads-bernie-sanders-in-national-cbsnyt-poll/

Plus we would get some of those people back.

After this, any far left candidate should not receive consideration from the voters in primaries. This is like if you and a coworker decided to play poker with your whole paychecks. You win, but as soon as you do, you coworker grabs his stake back out of the pot and says he doesn't believe in poker. The people who won't support the nominee are liars and cheaters of the system they took part in.

[Still In Wisconsin]

91. Who needs them? n/t

[HassleCat]

95. A third? I question that estimate.

Where did that number come from? How can we be sure they will not change their minds when confronted by the possibility of President Donny Shortfingers?

[Tarc]

97. Sour grapes don't stick around for long, no worry

When Sanders concedes, endorses Hillary, and calls on his followers to do the same, most will follow.

[gollygee]

103. If Hillary gets the nomination, most Bernie supporters will end up voting for her

They might not like her, and they probably won't give money or work for her campaign, but most aren't going to sit out the election or vote third party, or ffs vote for Trump.

I'm sure some will not vote for her no matter what, but no way do I believe that number is 33%. I don't doubt a lot of them feel that way now.

OTOH he's gaining steam and still has as shot at this so maybe we'll end up talking about Hillary voters supporting Bernie.

[SFnomad]

104. Most children, by the time they go to high school, get over the ...

... If I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home temper tantrums.

We had a faction (PUMAs) that said that's how they would act back in 2008 ... it never materialized.

My guess is that then and now, it's mostly just Republican ratf--king. Anyone that truly is that stupid, I'd just tell them fine, go away and go crawl back under your rock, we don't need you. If they're too blind to see the selfishness of what they're doing, they're not worth it anyways.

This election is about the Supreme Court as much as anything else is. And if another Republican is elected President, the court could continue to swing to the right for another generation. If you like seeing woman's health clinics disappearing like they are in Texas; For Profit Companies telling you they have religious objections to woman's health, gays and who knows what next; more money in politics; less power for workers; more power for corporations; more pollution; etc. ... then go ahead vote for tRump or write in Bernie's name. But when things continue to get worse here in the United States because of YOUR actions ... don't come crying to me about why things are as bad as they are ... because you've been part of the problem not part of the solution.

[baldguy]

109. If they want to Naderize themselves and give us a fascist GOP POS to occupy the WH.

They can go fuck themselves. Just like the PUMAs they're emulating.

[FlatBaroque]

112. That goes for 100% of the people in my household. /

[Orsino]

115. Ask Hillary Clinton whether she would accept the VP slot...

...and see if you don't get a similarly upsetting answer.

The political landscape of the general will be very different, made so by the endorsement of one candidate of the other. It's silly to assign much weight to polling on an unspecified hypothetical.

[seabeyond]

117. Teabaggers, Libertarians and anarchists that don't vote. I imagine they won't vote for a woman.

[CalvinballPro]

121. 33% of Bernie's supporters are disaffected libertarians with no one from the Paul family to vote for

this time around. They were never going to vote for Hillary anyway.

[JoePhilly]

173. + 1

[VulgarPoet]

123. Ratchet that number upwards after today's disgusting, Rovian, right-wing flavored attack.

She's laid down with dogs, and we're seeing the fleas bounce off at record rate.

[EndElectoral]

124. So 67% will back her? I think that's high.

[treestar]

144. they may think differently by November

It would be a silly action against one's own self interests.

[BreakfastClub]

146. They'll get over it. The tantrums and threats are just part of primaries. nt

[djean111]

155. I won't be getting over the piece of sleazy shit that Brock introduced today.

It puts Hillary's campaign down in the bottom of the trough with Trump.

[G_j]

153. I just dont believe that

It doesn't hold to my real life experience, and I know lots of Bernie supporters. I don"t see it.

[basselope]

162. That estimate seems low.

[Hugabear]

164. Sounds awfully similar to 2008

I'm sure a lot of people here remember the PUMA's (Party Unity My Ass) Clinton supporters back in 2008. I guess this may be a case of karma, what goes around comes around.

In the end, most Hillary supporters wound up supporting Obama in '08, and I'm sure that many Sanders supporters would also support Clinton over Trump, Cruz, or whomever the GOP puts up. Egos will be bruised, and I'm sure that many votes will be cast with teeth tightly clenched, but most of us do not want to hand the election over to the GOP

[BKH70041]

168. Now if only 100% of them would leave the Party

... and go form their own.

I'll drink to that!!

[LonePirate]

183. I'd settle for them leaving DU.

[LexVegas]

175. Angry white people.nt

[Califonz]

176. Fortunately I live in one of the bluest of the blue states

So I won't have to hold my nose and vote for HRC in the general to keep the GOP from winning our electoral votes.

[Sancho]

185. So many posts from a new person in their first few days on DU are suspicious...

GeorgiaPeanuts; what is your motivation? How did you get so familiar with DU so quickly?

Just curious....

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

186. I lurked... since before the Iowa caucus

My first time being linked here was to an image thread CoffeeCat posted of a Hillary rally in Iowa that was half empty.

How rude of you to call into question my motives.

[Sancho]

189. Really...it's not rude to ask..

rude might be to alert to MIRT without asking.

200 + posts in 10 days is prolific...especially with such a charged up purpose.

I'm sure you are aware that there are trolls, socks, paid operatives, etc. that create disruptions.

If you are experienced with sites like DU, you might have said, "thanks for asking, but I'm a big Bernie fan" and "I just discovered DU after all these years" or something logical. It's suspicious that you "lurked" as you say, because that means you may be familiar with the post count and MIRT rules.

Your motives are obvious from the posts (it's what I call "trash and bash&quot . I don't mind the cadre of similarly-minded folks, since it won't change any minds here on this site. Questioning motives on DU is par for the course.

It's easy enough to ignore people and threads. I figure the time wasted posting so much junk is not time spent on GOTV for a candidate that I don't support!

Oh, well. Have a nice day no matter what your motives may be.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

190. I didn't join and start spamming non-stop...

And I've been a part of the Sanders reddit since back in August when I first started supporting Sanders. Even have one of those SuperPack Founding Member stickers.

I'm not familiar with all the rules... All forums work generally the same way... to act like knowing how to use a forum means I'm a troll is crazy. Maybe your older, but for us Millenials it is easy to pick up forums like that.

[Sheepshank]

195. You arrived instantly snarky, argumentative, rude and demeaning to many DUers

Very different from other new persons, that arrive first learning the ropes and figuring out the lay of the land, the tenor of posters. It's like you know who you want to attack, from day one. That kind of action is very reminiscent of past DUers. You picked up some poor posting habits from them.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

196. I did not...

I joined March 14th... made 10 comments so I could share a Sanders video I wanted to from Reddit. Stuck around a bit more then dropped off from the site because of the Sanders losses on the 15th as I knew if I stayed I would probably say something bad faced with all the anti-Sanders vibe after that happened. I didn't come back around until Saturday to cheer on Bernie's great wins and have stuck around since. I am critical of Clinton, but I didn't think I was violating any rules, if I am let me know and I will avoid doing so in the future.

[0rganism]

187. i think that number is over by at least 25 points

if Bernie loses in the primary but goes to the convention and gets a few planks into the Democratic platform, i think he endorses Hillary and calls for unification. he'll probably campaign for her too. that's going to change a lot of minds right there.

but the real unity enforcer is going to be the assclown who emerges from the GOP primary. unless the establishment finds some kind of juju to push Kasich or Graham into the driver's seat, we're going to have built-in GOTV action like none of us have seen before. people will stand in line for hours -- maybe days -- to vote against Trump or Cruz.

[reformist2]

191. Considering that over half of Bernie's supporters are independents, they very well could go to Trump

[0rganism]

192. could, but they won't

they're Bernie supporters, if he says voting for Clinton is a good idea most of them are going to listen.

which kind of brings us back to the first reply, try that poll again in October and see how it looks then.