2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumArizona Sec of State admits voter party registrations were switched
Arizona Secretary of State Michele Reagan (R) just admitted to the AZ House elections committee that some voters' party affiliations were changed, which led to them not being able to cast normal votes on the presidential preference election day last week. Some of those voters cast provisional ballots as a result. Reagan says this happened to someone in her own office.
She says her staff are now reviewing paper registration forms to try to pinpoint where the problems occurred. She also said that they have made counting the provisional ballots a top priority.
http://www.abc15.com/live
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Still sitting on her "win" there...
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)at fault.
If people care about vote suppression, they'll stop using it as an excuse to launch cheap shots in the primary contest.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)Nothing "scary" about that. See how that works?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I know how scare quotes and 'so-called' works. Republicans use it when they refer to "Obama's so-called birth certificate."
The meaning is crystal clear, even though the thought process behind it is not.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)there were many more than Hillary voters. Explains Hillary's bizarre silence on what should be a slam dunk issue for a true progressive to address. Gives the appearance of hiding something.
PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)There's a chance this type of bs could bite her in the butt come election day. If she thinks that Republicans won't try to commit fraud on voting machines she's sorely mistaken.
pacalo
(24,721 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)I think it is used here as a slur.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)this is usually the case when a phrase has its own Wikipedia entry
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)That's voter suppression too. But to some, we just need to get over it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)You know, the one you're not interested in doing anything about. I think we should see who actually won the state.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)conspiracy theories when he lost by 70,000 votes--15% margin-- doesn't change that fact.
There was vote suppression, but there's no evidence of any kind of fraud. And the vote suppression that occurred did not single out Sanders supporters, it affected Sanders supporters, Clinton supporters, and also Trump supporters and Cruz supporters.
That's the scandal, not some Infowars nonsense about Clinton stealing an election.
No one outside the Bernie Bubble is disputing that Clinton won Arizona.
We know she won the same way we know Sanders won Michigan and Oklahoma. They counted the votes and one candidate had more than the other, in this case by a WIDE margin that was picked up in polls.
Sore loserism is not a good look.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But do not blame those who live outside the Bernie Bubble for not taking sore loser conspiracy theories seriously.
The vote suppression is a very real problem.
Sanders supporters whining about losing, not so much.
There is ZERO evidence that Clinton didn't win the state.
ALL EVIDENCE AND FACTS SHOW SHE WON THE STATE.
Sore loser temper tantrums are not a substitute for evidence and facts.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)The fact is voter suppression occurred, and until it is investigated to know how much, your claims are null and void.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)won the state of Arizona and a majority of its pledged delegates, according to the official count of ballots.
You can dwell in your alternate reality where some evil conspiracy you can't even imagine let alone describe stole it from Bernie (who was massively behind in the polls), but that has about as much relevance as King Canute ordering the sea back.
TL; DR: Hillary is getting the majority of delegates from AZ, regardless of any sour grapes thrown her way.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)How did it happen then? Some fat fingered intern just hit the wrong keys a few times? Bernie outperforms polling, so him being behind in the polling wouldn't stop them from suppressing the vote, they wouldn't want another Michigan.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)organization without help from Hillary Clinton.
Here's a hint: Hillary Clinton is not the root of all evil. Maybe y'all will realize this.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)So this was a republican conspiracy against him? I'm not sure what it is you're claiming anymore.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I've seen lots of online speculation to that effect. But nothing showing that there was any systemic or systematic bias against Sanders.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)it is for the GOP to do it.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)I'm stating it's fucking disgusting for her to sit on her "win" (and I use the quotes because the entire fucking election was a farce) rather than forcefully advocate something be done a out it. This is just further evidence of what kind of politician she is.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)as regard Hillary not wanting to debate now
Would Bernie now not want to debate if he was ahead? Who knows, he is a unique duck, for sure.
But comparing Hillary to him is ridiculous when Bernie is one of a kind when compared to ALL other politicians.
That is what is so untenable about the Bernie or Bust idea, to hold the Bernie ideal up makes no sense when ALL (just about all anyway) others are typical politicians.
Which is why I support Bernie but will support Hillary if I have to.
Makes perfect sense, if you are able to admit it.
Can you admit this?
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)Any opportunity to kick Hillary!
It's her fault that Republicans fucked up some people's registrations and her, being pragmatic, is wait and see until they can investigate, like most normal people.
JudyM
(29,233 posts)Fact checkers seem to say otherwise?
I need help here because I like both candidates.
apnu
(8,756 posts)The fuckup in AZ has been done by Republicans. There is no chance in hell they are working with Hillary on anything. They hate her and they fear her, more so than Bernie. They actually want Bernie in the GE, not Hillary.
Arizona is a deep red state, an ex-slave state, and a place with a history of suppression of minorities. It was directly affected by the Voting Rights Act which prevented the state from doing exactly what it did this year. But since the SCOTUS gutted the Voting Rights Act, the number of polling places in Maricopia County alone was less than half of what they had in 2012. (was 200, down to 60). The reduction was done under the auspices of "cost". Which is exactly one of the things the South did under Jim Crow.
There is zero chance Hillary is involved in that also.
Voter suppression happened in AZ, and its all at the Republican's feet. They did this, no one from the Democratic side has anything to do here.
are Republicans trying to get Dems not to vote in the Dem Primary? GE I understand. This was deliberately done at the highest level of computer clearance.
Who stood to gain more from this... AZ Republicans or Sec. Clinton?
Edit: I am not accusing Sec Clinton. But it's a fair question as to who would stand to gain more and to counter your "zero chance" comment. It's America. There is always a chance something crappy went down.
apnu
(8,756 posts)It is what they do. Its their own incompetence and hatred of the "other" resulted in this mess.
Making it hard to get to the polling place in poor and non-white areas solidifies the majority's grip on power. It stuff's down change and progress.
Any Democratic gain in AZ would be progress, and the Republicans can't have that. So to answer your question, the Republicans have more to gain than Hillary at suppression of the vote. Are they sitting around some smoke filled back room cackling about their plan to suppress the vote? Probably not. But their disinterest the plight of non-whites, and the poor, leads them to say "fuck those guys, I don't want to pay for polling places for them in Phoenix" There's the racism and bigotry.
Hillary is good at her job as a politician. She believes keeping her trap shut in this situation is the smartest play. Might not be the play we, the liberal, the progressive, and the Left, want her to play, but its the smart typical political way to go. By being quiet, she gives the Republicans all the rope they need to hang themselves on this issue. And hang themselves they are.
Now Bernie disagrees with that. He's a full throated roar guy, and so are his followers. They shake trees and rage at the storm. That's also right and good to do, but gives the R's less rope to hang themselves. They'll still hang themselves, because they're so inept in Arizona they can't help but do so. And through Bernie's tactic we, on the left, get to have fun shouting about it too. Because if Bernie does it (or any other pol for that matter), that gives us implied permission to do the same.
Consider this, who owns this "computer clearance"? Who has to keep track of party affiliation for Arizona's closed primary system? Who prints the ballots? Who buys and administers the voting machines? The polling places are neutral, its not like the caucus system where parties meet in different locations, these are the actual polling places that are used in every election, be it primary or general.
The answer to that question is the State and the county after that. Since AZ is deep red and Democrats have the smallest of toe-holds there, the systems are controlled by the Republicans. There is no way Hillary Clinton has anything to do with those systems. She or her national staff can't have touched them in any way. As for local Democrats, keep in mind that in Maricopia county out of five board supervisors, four are Republicans. You don't seriously think they are in cahoots with Hillary Clinton do you?
I'm not saying shenanigans didn't occur in Arizona, they did. I'm saying there's "zero chance" Hillary had anything to do with it. It was the Republican controlled government that closed the polling places in the past 4 years. It was the Republican controlled government that holds the computer system that tracks party affiliation, this is all on them.
Conservatives have a history of doing this stuff, one of the ironies of American politics is the Republican's spend a lot of time and energy crowing about how broken our election system is and why we need road blocks to register voters and also to have voter IDs and all that neo-Jim Crow stuff they yammer about, but they're the ones caught when the system goes pear shaped.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)All these Hillary supporters were calling people conspiracy theorists. Turns out it was all true.
We need to abolish closed primaries; In GA we have open primaries and it works fine.
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)when it was SC. But now it is a problem. I voted in SC and it seems better to not worry about who or what party it has me listed under.
LonePirate
(13,417 posts)I'm sure plenty of people did change their party affiliation. Yet, did all of them do so before the necessary deadlines? Were they aware of any such deadlines, if they existed? Are they misremembering when they changed affiliations? Or did they meet all of the deadlines but some bureaucrat or some form taker screw up, either intentionally or accidentally?
I fully expect to hear numerous reports of people not being allowed to vote in NY's upcoming primary despite changing their affiliation months ago (Nov. - Jan.) even though you had to change it by the Oct. deadline.
Gwhittey
(1,377 posts)They just testified that many people where switched for some undermined reason.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)NY has already stated that due to a high volume of registrations, they were overwhelmed.
Ooops might happen.....
Can't wait to see what happens on April 19th, our NY Closed Primary day.
THERE.WILL.BE.TEARS.
And I am already worried that my Democratic affiliation might mysteriously switch and when I show up at my polling place, they tell me I can't vote.
I will be livid.
And that doesn't even cover the fact that we have the most remote/longest deadline between switching affiliation, and primary day :
six months
The deadline to switch affiliation from XXX to Democratic in order to vote in the Democratic primary was back on the First Friday in October.
Yes, you are right, that was BEFORE the first Democratic debate.
So, you are blank-out-of-luck if you watch a few debates, and decided it might be nice to switch from the Independent or Green party to the Dem party to vote for Either Hillary or Bernie.
Nope, the Dem party won't get your vote.
Yea, I just love closed Primaries.
LonePirate
(13,417 posts)At the very least, the names of these voters should be added to a list that automatically accepts provisional ballots if their registrations cannot be processed in time for the actual election.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)You can check online.
(And if for some reason you can't, you can go to the office of elections and check in person.)
This goes for everybody.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)I haven't figured out how to do it on line, but I have a day off coming up soon, before the primary, so I am going to visit the local BOE and just double-check.
I also have a little postcard I got before the last opportunity vote, and it clear states I am registered as a Democrat. So, there's that proof at least!
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)chickens coming home to roost.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)not to post any vote tallies until all the polls were closed, even though it is illegal for the state to release tallies before the polls are closed, because, according to her, the state did not have statutory authority to tell the counties not to.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)brooklynite
(94,513 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)Just go for it..................
LiberalFighter
(50,905 posts)Does that work? It usually works for those that don't want to know the facts.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)All of this talk of voter registrations being switched was a lie and Sanders' supporters were just too lazy to register in time to vote... Nice try on the baiting though
brooklynite
(94,513 posts)Hillary Clinton's Election Fraud Masterpiece
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511562203
Not at all unbelievable, Hillary has counted on cheating to get her lead
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280154594 #3
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)To wonder why the hell they aren't raising the roof about it...because she doesn't want to taint her "win." She is the type of disgusting politician that us wrong with our entire aystem.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)about focusing on provisional ballots. Not sure she meant they will all be counted.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)...and making provisional ballots a "top priority" sounded pretty promising. Of course, I could be reading it too optimistically.
I guess we just need to wait and see.
amborin
(16,631 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)This goes beyond Bernie getting a few more AZ delegates, as they are going to count the provisional ballots. There should be no member on DU against counting the votes, and applying them correctly. No one.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, TheDormouse
EyeOnLife
(37 posts)I'd say life would be just fine.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"Natural causes"
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)What is she talking about she will try to pinpoint
Peachhead22
(1,078 posts)Because 'shit happens'. And when it's an election 'shady shit happens'.
Even though either of our candidates would beat Trump like a drum if it was a totally honest election. That dangerous idiot on the ballot means he's just one step from the White House. And in elections, shit happens. Often shady shit happens.