Sanders wins the diversity contest -- Asians support him!

[Onlooker]

I keep seeing this strange marginalizing argument that Sanders victory in Hawaii proves he has the most diverse coalition. First, no one ever denied he has support among some people of color. Of course he does, just as Hillary has some support among young people. But, the reality is that he does not do well among the most oppressed groups in our society.

While Asians, especially Asian women, face various forms of bigotry, I don't think many would compare the plight of most Asians to the plight of Blacks and Latinos, and I don't think the Republican Party represents the same kind of threat against Asians that it represents against other groups. (After all, Asians are the wealthiest race in the US.) As far as Native Americans go, it's not clear who they support. Hillary did well in states with large Native American populations (such as Arizona and Texas) and even in Washington State won a major endorsement from tribal elders. Perhaps Bernie edges her among that group, but we really don't know. At any rate, the issue of diversity was never simply about the color of one's skin; it is about freedom and fairness.

If the polls are correct, blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and gays, among other groups, support Hillary. These groups are struggling right now, faced with the threat of a fascist becoming president. To my knowledge, the Republican Party is not making threats against Asians to the same extent it is threatening other groups.

There may be no good reason for people of color and other minorities to support Hillary, but more likely there are good reasons that many of those in the majority just don't get. Certainly when people use Bernie's Asian support to prove he's the champion of diversity, it appears that they don't know why diversity is an issue in the first place.


Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income
https://www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/13423-cair-super-tuesday-poll-shows-muslim-voters-support-hillary-clinton-concerned-about-islamophobia.html
http://www.towleroad.com/2016/02/clinton-beats-sanders-survey-lgbt-voters-trump-top-republican-2/
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/politics/article/Tribal-leaders-throw-pre-caucus-support-to-7100031.php
https://www.census.gov/population/estimates/state/rank/aiea.txt

[JackInGreen]

1. To sum up

in a nut shell....
Did you just say 'Asians aren't as powerful a minority as Black or Latinos, and they're not facing the same threats of Trump that Blacks and Latinos are, so of course they might vote for the wrong choice.'?

[Onlooker]

3. No, that's not what I said ...

... Asians are actually quite powerful as a minority, and many Asians, especially women, are active in progressive politics an anti-discrimination activities. They are a powerful and important group. But, yes, they are not facing the same threat from Trump and Cruz that blacks and Latinos are facing. For one, Asians on average are the wealthiest racial group, so that insulates them some from bigotry.

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

[JackInGreen]

5. So

'Not to lessen the impact and capability of the asian community, particularly the women of the asian community, but yes, they're wealthy and not under as much threat'.

So you didn't mean they were powerless, but that they won't be under as much of a threat as Blacks and Latinos.

soooo....what's the point of the OP? To indicate that they're not under threat from Trump? Or that they're not thinking as clearly or as thoroughly as their peers in other cross sections because of the reduced threat?

Oh...wait wait...so it's someone saying that it indicates DIVERSITY, and that they're not as diverse or as.....ok, so Bernie people look foolish saying that it proves diversity...but not ENOUGH diversity....I must be missing something here.

[Onlooker]

8. The last sentence of my original post summarizes my point; maybe you didn't read that far n/t

[JackInGreen]

10. Oh I got your point

Sanders followers are being foolish and sounding bad by saying that winning asians is proving 'diversity'.

Because Asian supporters are A) not really a mark of adequate diversity, B) more well off. C) not facing the threat of trump.

Glad you made that clear.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Wait a minute!

OK, now I'm ready!

[Barack_America]

2. This is beneath DU. Don't do this.

[beedle]

6. Love to know

what Hillary supporters think minorities have to fear from Bernie?

Sure, Hillary has more name recognition, we know that, and as the primaries go on that is being addressed.

Is there some specific claim you want to make about how Bernie will harm minorities? Go ahead and make it and stop this bullshit 'innuendo' of Bernie racism.

[mainer]

7. Asians don't count. Whites don't count.

Only people who support Hillary count.

[uponit7771]

13. Cornell West counts though right? tia

[mainer]

17. Cornell West doesn't count

because he doesn't support Hillary

[beam me up scottie]

18. ^^^THIS^^^

He's not the right kind of minority.

[JI7]

9. in Nevada Asians seemed to support Clinton

And even the polls which show him leading with Asians in California is a small lead compared to what Clinton has with black and Latinos.

Its simple math and does nothing to help Sanders by exaggerating and pretending what is not true.

Sanders needs California and he needs to do a lot better with hispanics to beat Clinton in the state.

[beam me up scottie]

11. "If the polls are correct, blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and gays, among other groups, support Hillary"

Once again a Hillary supporter dismisses and demeans minorties who don't support her, millions of PoC simply don't exist or don't count to you.

#Berniemademewhite was created because of people like you. Minorities who support Bernie feel erased.

Thanks for once again proving their point.

[uponit7771]

14. How does stating that as a fact demean anyone? Would like to know your opinion.. tia

[beam me up scottie]

15. #Berniemademewhite

They explain themselves quite well.

[uponit7771]

19. I don't see how it does, people intimating "most" doesn't mean "all"... the premise behind the hasta

... hashtag seems like a strawman.

But I'd like to know what you mean by your claim that somehow repeating polls that indicate "most" people is demeaning to anyone?

tia

[beam me up scottie]

20. Intimating = weasel word

The op didn't say most, they blatantly and deliberately ignored minorities who support Bernie. Your being willfully obtuse about the hashtag just proves the point.

I don't know who's more Orwellian, the people who say these things or who's defending them.

Just boggles the fucking mind.

[uponit7771]

28. No its not and I didn't mention the OP but the hashtag you posted. and it goes without saying that a

... poll that doesn't say 100% isn't all

Still would like to know why you think it's demeaning but I've gone over this with Sanders supporters before when they don't address straight forward questions.

[beam me up scottie]

31. Yes it is, the op did not say most, again they DELIBERATELY left out minorities who support Bernie.

And since you refuse to check out the tweets and pretend not to know WHY dismissing certain minorities is offensive to them I'll post the article for others who are interested:

On Sunday, after Bernie Sanders' commanding wins in the Alaska, Hawaii and Washington state Democratic presidential caucuses, Leslie Lee III, an American freelance writer living in Japan, tweeted, "I knew it. I knew if Bernie won Hawaii it would magically become a white state."

And then he tweeted again: "Ever since I voted for Bernie, I've been bingewatching Friends.

#BernieMadeMeWhite."... Lee said he wrote that to contradict a narrative he sees playing out in the race for the Democratic nomination.

"There's always been these articles about how Bernie supporters are basically only white people," Lee told NPR.

He continued, "Me, myself, and many other POC, people of color, who support Bernie Sanders, feel like we don't get to be a part of the conversation. We get ignored. We get erased. It's assumed that the black vote, the Hispanic vote, and everyone is all behind Hillary Clinton and none of us really get Bernie Sanders or like Bernie Sanders."

So he decided to have fun with it. "Hey, if you're gonna ignore me as a black person, I might as well embrace my whiteness," Lee said. "I might as well start watching Friends, or enjoying pumpkin spice latte, or whatever. I just wanted to have a bit of fun with it while highlighting the serious issue."

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/28/472160616/-berniemademewhite-no-bernie-sanders-isnt-just-winning-with-white-people

Seriously, it's time to stop digging, everyone can read what the op posted. Defending this shit doesn't make it smell any better.

[uponit7771]

32. It goes without saying that its NOT ... NOT "all"... what's hard about that!? That would mean 40

... 40 million blacks 50 million Hispanics so many million Native Americans etc ... etc.

Who in the hell thinks like that?!

[beam me up scottie]

34. Except a lot of folks thought it NEEDED saying: #Berniemademewhite

But they're not the right kind of minority so they still don't count.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. The OP does not say most. The OP claims us all as his fodder to own and operate as superior straight

" blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and gays, among other groups, support Hillary."

No 'most' at all. 'gays support Hillary'. It's nasty, dismissive and seeks to steal my agency and take it for the OP's plaything.
This bigoted shit has to end.
And your claim that he said 'most' is just a big fabrication. We can all read.

[uponit7771]

29. Polling that doesn't say 100% means all? It goes without saying... wow people, come on... lets

... not get all excited about birds landing on podiums or something

[Bluenorthwest]

33. You flatly claimed the OP said most when he did not. That was your entire point. You typed this:

" "most" doesn't mean "all"... the premise behind the hasta

... hashtag seems like a strawman.

But I'd like to know what you mean by your claim that somehow repeating polls that indicate "most" people is demeaning to anyone?"

The OP said "blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and gays, among other groups, support Hillary."

No modifier, not 'most' and yet again this is you preaching at LGBT how we should feel about the rhetoric straights use to bait us. His OP is full of shit and it did not say most, meaning your response was full of shit as well.

You made a claim about his wording that is simply not true.

You used that as platform to preach at a minority group about how the majority should be allowed to treat them. I object strongly to what you and the OP are doing here. It's bigoted and dishonest.

I'm editing to add that you claim the OP is 'repeating polls' when what he is doing is characterizing polling he does not bother to cite.

[uponit7771]

35. cause freakin most goes without saying !!! a lot of people can't afford to make up shit to complain

... about

[beam me up scottie]

36. So an lgbt person who's been marginalized is "making up shit to complain about"?

What is wrong with you?

Once again proving that minorities who don't support Hillary don't matter.

[uponit7771]

37. Is that one person most of lgbt's !? tia

[beam me up scottie]

38. It's the one you just accused of making up "shit to complain about".

Revolting accusation.

But not at all surprising.

[uponit7771]

39. I'll take that as a no... regards

[Onlooker]

42. Calm down. I think you missed much of my point.

The OP has already responded several times, but your defensive tone to tell you truth makes you sound angry. I don't want to upset you more. So, before reading what I write here, take a deep breath. I mean you no harm.

I said, "no one ever denied he has support among some people of color. Of course he does, just as Hillary has some support among young people. But, the reality is that he does not do well among the most oppressed groups in our society." I never meant to imply that 100% of any group supports Hillary (or Bernie, for that matter), but if that's what you understood, then I certainly see why you are so angry. But, if you looked at my sources, I did try to show that majorities of various groups support Hillary. As an older gay man myself, I'm pretty connected to the gay community, and have been since at least the 1980s. I don't know what your qualifications are, but I do wish you would read what I wrote a little more carefully. My point is simply that by winning Asians, Bernie does not prove that he is the candidate of the oppressed, which is really the point of the fact that Hillary appears to lead among the blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and other minority groups. I don't think he leads among gays based on the people I know and the little polling that's out there.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. You need to respond. You affect to be asking questions then when they are answered you fall silent.

Your lack of response is of course an admission of your inability to be an honest broker.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. I'm gay and for Bernie and you have no standing. Muslims are actually voting for Bernie in droves

Bernie Sanders Wins Big With Michigan Muslims — And Political Pundits Can’t Quite Believe It
By Ismat Sarah Mangla
http://www.ibtimes.com/bernie-sanders-wins-big-michigan-muslims-political-pundits-cant-quite-believe-it-2333030


It's disgusting when Straight People try to preach about what LGBT are doing. So many of your fellow Hillary supporters promoted the HRC to us as if we had never heard of them when we are actively boycotting them for transphobia and racism and sexism and the DU Straights need to cut it the fuck out.

Your attempt to erase me will not work. #Berniemademestraight

[JudyM]

21. +1. OP is void for being unsubstantiated and overbroad.

[Onlooker]

43. Actually, I provided a bunch of links ...

... so not sure what you mean be unsubstantiated. Add to that in my first paragraph, I stated, "no one ever denied he has support among some people of color. Of course he does, just as Hillary has some support among young people. But, the reality is that he does not do well among the most oppressed groups in our society." So, I'm not sure what you mean by being overbroad.

[JudyM]

44. Clearly explained in my post below. The evidence does not support your assertions.

At least re: LGBT.

[Onlooker]

45. You could be right about LGBT

Where I live, in Boston, my impression is that Hillary leads about the lesbian and gay community, though Bernie might do well with the nonbinary and genderqueer folk. Part of the problem with Bernie is that he doesn't really have a feminine bone in his body; his whole presentation is very masculine (and that's not a criticism), which I think is a bit of a turnoff to a lot of gays. Many gays and lesbians find it easier to identify with the struggles of a woman than with what Bernie has been through. Just my 2 cents.

[JudyM]

46. Ok, are you gay? Because if you are not this is pure BS. And if you are, you must be a total newbie

Because, again, this is pure BS. Again, unsubstantiated. And again, inaccurate stereotyping.

[Onlooker]

47. Yes I am gay ...

... and have been reasonably involved in the gay community for many years, indeed decades. But, at any rate, the polls show that Hillary has greater support than Bernie among the LGBT community, even if there are things that some like about Bernie better. So, the bottom line is that the LGBT community, like blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and Jews, are not part of his core.

[JudyM]

48. Ok, you are w r o n g. Read my post, as I noted. And second, as a member of the community, you are

have some pretty weird views. How can you be involved and be so off the mark? Certainly you do not speak for the community, I assure you of that.

[beam me up scottie]

22. Bravo, Bluenorthwest!

Excellent idea, enough with the erasure of minorities who support Bernie!

And women too, we've been called traitors for supporting a man.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. The OP will not respond. The OP is one of those who casually cast bigoted bait then scamper off when

called on it. This crap they are doing has to end. It just has to end. It is not acceptable, this endless baiting being done by a cohort that has admitted bigots doing some of the baiting.

[beam me up scottie]

26. I noticed the same thing, the op tried to smear Bernie's record on lgbt rights the other day.

Post after post full of speculation and outright fabrications, every time I refuted with facts they ignored me.

It's a tactic that's been used by the right for decades.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Hey Blue, look what the op had to say about that hashtag:

Onlooker

13. Hashtag is a cute gimmick of Sanders supporters

I bet you wiped tears from your eyes when the little bird landed on Bernie's podium, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1591614

Referring to a backlash from minorities who are rightfully angry as a cute gimmick.

No wonder they don't want to answer you.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

16. Holy Hell!

You Clinton supporters love to divide everybody up by race, gender, sexual orientation and try to pit us against each other... Y'all are beginning to sound like republicans. Makes sense considering the Democratic party is fast becoming republican lite.

[JudyM]

24. Re:LGBT - same survey shows more feel Bernie is actually supportive of LGBT issues.

"Another question was which of the Democratic presidential candidates would be most supportive of LGBT rights. In response, 37 percent said the candidates were equally supportive, 31 percent chose Sanders, 25 percent selected Clinton, 5 percent said they weren’t sure and 2 percent said neither candidate supports LGBT rights."
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/02/16/poll-lgbt-people-split-48-for-clinton-41-for-sanders/

Plus, the article states that the LGBT vote tracks the general demographic, which has moved in Bernie's favor since this early February survey. Plus the 4+% margin of error, it can't be said that LGBT support Hillary more.