Has the typical Bernie voter even heard of the workers socialst party?

[MattP]

Last edited Thu Mar 31, 2016, 12:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Founded on the principles ofTrotsky and where Bernie started? He was a elector where they proclaimed solidarity with Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua in 1980 in the middle of the Iran hostage crisis! If you don't think thats a 49 state losing blowout you have your head in the sand.

[Merryland]

1. Red-baiting is so unattractive...n/t

[revbones]

33. When your candidate is corrupt and the opponent is not, it's all you have... nt

[DanTex]

2. Or the Liberty Union party? Or his socialist idol Eugene V Debs?

And the problem is, if he had won the primary, every voter in America would quickly become familiar with all those things.

[cannabis_flower]

6. Quite a few of us

also consider ourselves democratic socialists, so it doesn't bother us.

[DanTex]

10. Sure, but the American electorate, not so much.

[dogman]

17. Because the American electorate is uninformed.

All they are exposed to is corporate spin.

[DanTex]

18. From what I've seen, it's the Bernie following that is woefully uninformed.

[dogman]

24. Because we don't but this right wing tripe?

[DanTex]

38. The only right-wing tripe I see on DU are links to the Weekly Standard and WaTimes

perpetuating false smears against Hillary. And, from the amount of recs they get, and the fact that this is a daily occurrence, it seems like Bernie fans are very happy with right-wing tripe.

[beam me up scottie]

40. I've seen HC supporters link to anti-Semitic articles, a Holocaust denier's website and Stormfront.

So watch what you're throwing from that fractured glass house.

[DanTex]

94. That happened, what, once? Twice? A couple PPRed trolls?

[beam me up scottie]

95. Nope they're still here, and once is one too many times.

[DanTex]

96. I agree, one link to Stormfront is too many times.

[beam me up scottie]

97. Thanks, Dan.

[DanTex]

98. And I'm glad you don't post the link. Don't do it.

We can argue and all, but that s**t belongs nowhere near here.

[frylock]

91. We don't have the luxury of linking to bought-and-paid-for propaganda outlets..

Last edited Thu Mar 31, 2016, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)

like Blue Nation Review or Daily News Bin.

[DanTex]

93. Really? That's your excuse?

[frylock]

99. Oh, Dan.

[DanTex]

100. The usual Bernie fan dodge.

[frylock]

103. What's your excuse, Dan?

[revbones]

35. "woefully uninformed" seems to be more a slam against Hillary followers

and their head-in-the-sand views on corruption...

[redstateblues]

39. Corruption? I see that over and over. Where is the proof

Of quid pro quo? All you offer is baseless smears

[revbones]

47. Sure.

Her vote for the bankruptcy bill after receiving donor checks when she previously opposed it = Corruption.

Her pay-for-play arms deals with middle-eastern countries for Clinton Foundation donations = Corruption.

It goes on and on... Hard to notice when your head is in the sand though.

[dogman]

54. Follow the money.

Look at her advocacy and the source of her donations. She represents the people, with big money.

[redstateblues]

62. That's no proof. Just a smear

[dogman]

64. It's common sense.

Pull your head out and look around.

[redstateblues]

66. Still waiting

[dogman]

68. Where does her money come from?

Where do her votes go? Corporations don't spend money without an expected ROI.

[John Poet]

79. Eugene Debs was a HERO.

Much better to have a candidate who idolized Debs, than one who idolizes war criminals like Henry Kissinger, and thinks another war criminal like George W. Bush deserves to be treated "like family".

[Scuba]

3. I miss the unrec button.

[PonyUp]

4. We still have the Ignore button and I'm fixin' to use it. n/t

[pangaia]

81. Does that guy EVER say anything positive? Ever?

Now I have my moments, on the intertubes +s and -s, I'll give you that, but...jeeze.. I hope he doesn't have a heart attack with the constant red faced anger, insulting, pissing... Must be a sad way to live.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. No but they might have heard of the democratic socialist of america.

Bernie is not a commie.

Here, edumacate your ownsome: http://www.dsausa.org

Red baiting bullshit sucks.

[brush]

63. Wonder if most Bernie supporters know the difference between a . . .

Last edited Fri Apr 1, 2016, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Social democrat and democratic socialist?

They are different.

[99Forever]

7. Does the typical Hillary supporter understand the difference between a Democratic Socialist...

...and a communist? Apparently not.

[auntpurl]

13. Oh yes, WE do...

but the American electorate as a whole...not so much, I wouldn't have thought.

[beam me up scottie]

28. No apparently some of you don't. He's been called a commie here many times.

And the op is doing something even worse by calling him a red Jew.

[auntpurl]

29. I didn't see "Jew" mentioned in the OP.

Is it inferred in some way?

Bernie is uncomfortably too far left for me, but I don't think he's a communist.

[beam me up scottie]

37. Trotsky = dog whistle

The Soviet loving Jew is a commonly used dog whistle on the right.

[revbones]

48. Well Hillary followers seem to love right-wing tactics...

and think it's ok when your own side does it.

[beam me up scottie]

53. Some of them are rabidly anti-Semitic.

I'm not surprised by anything they post anymore.

[revbones]

55. It's interesting that they call some of us trolls, etc...

when some of them joined recently too, AND even sport names that would indicate that they just joined to troll for her campaign.

[beam me up scottie]

58. Some of the worst right wing trolls are long time members.

They're not difficult to spot.

[arcane1]

76. And some of those called Hillary "morally depraved" and "unfit" in 2008.

For those trolls, even their current support for her is bullshit

[beam me up scottie]

78. And another called her a "liar".

I guess she isn't the only one who evolved.

[redstateblues]

65. BSS threw Jew in there as a straw man

No HRC supporter said it

[beam me up scottie]

77. Do you know what a dog whistle is? Stop insulting people's intelligence.

[99Forever]

44. Quite clearly you are dead wrong.

If you were correct, stupid fucking OPs such as this wouldn't happen. It's one of your own that CLEARLY is a politically misinformed fool

[litlbilly]

90. Probably came directly from David Brock himself.

[litlbilly]

89. I would have to say no they dont

[stone space]

8. Have folks heard of the Socialist Party USA?

The Iowa Socialist Party was associated with them back in the day.

[NorthCarolina]

9. Is that anything like being a Goldwater Girl? nt

[NWCorona]

14. The talking point on that is she was just a kid.

I'd take a socialist over a segregationist if I had to choose

[merrily]

69. She wasn't such a kid, then or when she was President of College Republicans.

Here's the chrono (Her birthday is October 26, shortly before election day. )

Canvassed for Nixon at 13

Goldwater Girl at 17 (I knew better by 17-18, didn't you?)

President of College Republicans at Wellesley, ages18-21--probably would have been hard to find a more liberal school in the country, then, too.

Now here is where I begin to question/doubt her version.

Went to the Republican convention at age 21 (1968) and supposedly supported Rockefeller, probably the most liberal Republican running (or imaginable). He had tried for the nom in 1960, 1964, too. but she had supported the considerably more conservative candidates those years. So I tend to question whether she supported Rockefeller in 1968, or one of the more conservative candidates, like Nixon, for whom she had canvassed at 13, or Reagan. But, o.k, let's give her Rockefeller, just for grins and giggles.

Next, she was shocked, shocked, I tell you, to hear racist comments at the Republican convention and immediately turned Democrat, supporting Eugene McCarthy (Which means she was already a Democrat and a relatively liberal one, to boot, before she met Bubba in law school--I don't buy that at all.) This means she had never heard racist comments from Republicans while working for Nixon or Jim Crow defender, er I mean, states rights defender, Goldwater. That seems so implausible to me. It also seems implausible to me that she immediately decided that Democrats must not be racist. After all, in 1968, there were plenty of racists in both parties and Johnson had certainly needed Republicans to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964 while those who had filibustered it were Democrats. For me, her story, while full of drama and sympathetic principles simply does not seem plausible.

The following year, she made a graduation speech. I had read that he speech dissed Republican Massachusetts Senator Brooke, the invited graduation speaker. I've read the speech. At most, it compared her generation, just starting out, with his. No dissing of him personally in any way, no dissing him over his being a Republican and no dissing of Republicans. She was,after all, the outgoing President of College Republicans at the time.

The next school year, she met Bubba in law school. IMO, that is when she became a Democrat, not when she was at the 1968 Republican National Convention. In 1985, they, together with people like Warner, Gore, Lieberman, etc. founded the DLC. She accompanied Al From to Europe, to spread the DLC gospel to European politicians. Blair was probably their biggest success.

In recent years, at various points she has said (1) her politics are rooted in the conservatism (read, Republican conservatism) in which she was raised; (2) she is a moderate; and (3) she is a progressive. However, recently, she bristled and corrected Matthews when he called her a liberal. I see that as her trying to be (almost) all things to all people. Others may find that all three of those descriptions apply truthfully to her.

[vintx]

11. lol

Did that thread about the turd way corporatist Clintons hurt your feelings?

[merrily]

23. Must have hurt his ability to draw parallels, too.

Hillary did not start with the DLC--she helped start the DLC.

She started with Nixon and Goldwater.

[Kalidurga]

12. Shhhhhhhh

The plan is to take all of your money and give it to other people. You will have to eat grubs sorry.

[beam me up scottie]

15. He's a red Jew now? Have HC supporters been getting tips on red baiting and bigotry from Trump?

Because when you use anti-Semitic slurs that's exactly who you sound like.

[Merryland]

16. I always thought red-baiting was a right-wing thing

We really do need to reclaim our party.

[beam me up scottie]

19. The red Jew slur is a nice touch, I wonder who the op thinks he's fooling?

[dogman]

21. It is a right wing thing.

That's why its coming from the Hillary campaign. The Democratic Party has found the third way, ignore the people and go straight to the corporations for the money.

[frylock]

92. It IS a right-wing thing.

Your party is infested with right-wingers. It's real easy to see from the outside looking in.

[merrily]

20. Hillary started canvassing for Nixon, not with the DLC. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist.

Did you have a point?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

87. Not a lot of people know that Hillary canvassed for Nixon

that's an omen

[TrueDemVA]

22. YAY! Red baiting!

Good try. I feel like the Hillary Campaign thinks people fall for this garbage. I mean, I understand some of the trolls on here probably do think this type of RW propaganda works and it might in some places, but most of the people here in DU understand this is just ridiculous.

[Octafish]

25. Bernie voters sure know about UBS.

UBS is a Swiss bank that is enjoying better days, thanks to the US taxpayer and a number of key US political leaders.

Hillary Helps a Bank—and Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons

The Wall Street Journal’s eyebrow-raising story of how the presidential candidate and her husband accepted cash from UBS without any regard for the appearance of impropriety that it created.

by CONOR FRIEDERSDORF, The Atlantic, JUL 31, 2015

The Swiss bank UBS is one of the biggest, most powerful financial institutions in the world. As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton intervened to help it out with the IRS. And after that, the Swiss bank paid Bill Clinton $1.5 million for speaking gigs. The Wall Street Journal reported all that and more Thursday in an article that highlights huge conflicts of interest that the Clintons have created in the recent past.

The piece begins by detailing how Clinton helped the global bank.

“A few weeks after Hillary Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, she was summoned to Geneva by her Swiss counterpart to discuss an urgent matter. The Internal Revenue Service was suing UBS AG to get the identities of Americans with secret accounts,” the newspaper reports. “If the case proceeded, Switzerland’s largest bank would face an impossible choice: Violate Swiss secrecy laws by handing over the names, or refuse and face criminal charges in U.S. federal court. Within months, Mrs. Clinton announced a tentative legal settlement—an unusual intervention by the top U.S. diplomat. UBS ultimately turned over information on 4,450 accounts, a fraction of the 52,000 sought by the IRS.”

Then reporters James V. Grimaldi and Rebecca Ballhaus lay out how UBS helped the Clintons. “Total donations by UBS to the Clinton Foundation grew from less than $60,000 through 2008 to a cumulative total of about $600,000 by the end of 2014, according to the foundation and the bank,” they report. “The bank also joined the Clinton Foundation to launch entrepreneurship and inner-city loan programs, through which it lent $32 million. And it paid former president Bill Clinton $1.5 million to participate in a series of question-and-answer sessions with UBS Wealth Management Chief Executive Bob McCann, making UBS his biggest single corporate source of speech income disclosed since he left the White House.”

The article adds that “there is no evidence of any link between Mrs. Clinton’s involvement in the case and the bank’s donations to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, or its hiring of Mr. Clinton.” Maybe it’s all a mere coincidence, and when UBS agreed to pay Bill Clinton $1.5 million the relevant decision-maker wasn’t even aware of the vast sum his wife may have saved the bank or the power that she will potentially wield after the 2016 presidential election.

SNIP...

As McClatchy noted last month in a more broadly focused article that also mentions UBS, “Ten of the world’s biggest financial institutions––including UBS, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Goldman Sachs––have hired Bill Clinton numerous times since 2004 to speak for fees totaling more than $6.4 million. Hillary Clinton also has accepted speaking fees from at least one bank. And along with an 11th bank, the French giant BNP Paribas, the financial goliaths also donated as much as $24.9 million to the Clinton Foundation––the family’s global charity set up to tackle causes from the AIDS epidemic in Africa to climate change.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/

About UBS Wealth Management

It's Buy Partisan

After his exit from the US Senate, Phil Gramm found a job at Swiss bank UBS as vice chairman. He later brought on former President Bill Clinton. What a coincidence, they are the two key figures in repealing Glass-Steagal. Since the New Deal it was the financial regulation that protected the US taxpayer from the Wall Street casino. Oh well, what's a $16 trillion bailout among friends?



It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:

President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush Heh heh heh.
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool

SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html

One of my attorney chums doesn't like to see his name on any committees, event letterhead or political campaign literature. These folks, it seems to me, are past caring.

Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.



Some people are worse than Trotsky's commie enemies. The fact the nation's "news media" aren't really following the UBS story should also be of great concern -- for the 99-percent and ALL Democrats.

[think]

32. ^^THIS^^

[revbones]

50. ^^BOOM^^ Facts.

[dana_b]

60. wow!! is this an original OP?

Because it should be.

K&R??

[vintx]

85. This. nt

[k8conant]

26. Wrong: it's the Socialist Workers Party...

not founded by Trotsky but Trotskyist and Bernie didn't start there although he was an elector in 1980.

[Gwhittey]

61. Wait Isn;t it the

Party of Socialist Workers?
Or maybe the
Socialist Party of Workers?
Or Party of Workers Socialist.

[hobbit709]

27. Another red baiting attempt by Camp Weathervane.

Hasn't worked the last two dozen times, what makes you think it will this time.

[revbones]

52. Right-wing tactics are all they have at this point... nt

[Chasstev365]

30. Da Comrade

All Bernie supporters secretly take orders from Mosow and work with fellow travelers.

Are you sure you're not a Trump supporter?

[creon]

31. probably not.

They have no reason to know anything about a political party that was meaningless then and is extinct today.

[cosmicone]

34. Typical Bernie voter hasn't heard of

McGovern, Mondale or Dukakis either.

[redstateblues]

42. Wasn't Mondale the the Dem that ran on raising taxes

On the middle class? The guy that won ONE state?

[John Poet]

80. Mondale and Dukakis were the PICKS of the Democratic establishment,

just like Hillary is now.

You're only pointing out how poor their track record is, on backing a winning candidate...

[MattP]

36. My other name is Moisha i never said anything about him being jewish i am

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Yeah Moish that's why you use the dog whistles. Red baiting in the US has antisemitism always

running with it. When you start pulling Trotsky out all you have to do is listen, all those dogs are barking. Maybe you don't know this?

[KingFlorez]

41. Sanders isn't even a socialist

He's a career politician running on a watered down version of socialism. If he was a really a socialist he'd have a plan for nationalizing some of the top industries in this country.

[Punkingal]

45. Wow, Senator McCarthy, I see reports of your death have been greatly exaggerated.

Red-baiting is a disgrace.

[MattP]

46. He was a elector to a party that wanted solidarity with Iran during HOSTAGE crisis

I mean what is that?

[beam me up scottie]

51. So now you're suggesting he's disloyal to his country?

Keep digging.

[dogman]

67. A smear from Johnny Alter?

He even said at the time he made the smear that he could not prove a connection other than guilt by association.

[beedle]

49. So you agree then

that Hillary is against segregation?

[flamingdem]

56. Who cares anymore the cold war is over

Thanks Obama for going to Cuba and putting that to rest.

Things were different in the 80s. A committed activist might work with any number of left groups. That doesn't mean they couldn't be democratic in their thinking.

I have some misgivings about this material coming to light but for the most part the populace knows Sanders has been a congressman for years and so far he hasn't blown anything up or tried to talk Marx.

[beam me up scottie]

57. Nice edit, makes it look like you're just "concerned".

Too late though, the original is still viewable.

[dana_b]

59. most of us DO NOT CARE

He's not a Trotsky-ite.

And if you think that's worse than a candidate who is about to be interviewed and possibly indicted by the FBI, who has NO trust from the American people, is a proven liar, takes money from rich big wigs/corporations/Wall St/big banks, a flip flopper and whose momentum is sinking as fast as the Titanic, then I got nothing for you.

[liberal_at_heart]

70. straight to my ignore list.

[suffragette]

71. Right, that'll kill him in places like Midwest -oh, wait.

He's actually doing quite well there in the primaries.

The ooooh commie scare tactic that some predicted would mean Bernie only won his own state in the primaries hasn't worked the way some thought it would.

Seems that when people have had the chance to hear his policies, many more than predicted initially have agreed and been not the least bit bothered by his leftist stances.

Indeed, many more people now even understand the differences in being a Democratic Socialistic and many are demonstrating through their primary votes, yes even in the heartland, that they don't care so much about the labels as they do about the policies and consistent actions.

[Maedhros]

73. Hey genius! Yeah, you...

Do you mean the Workers and Socialist Party, a South African party started in 2012? It wasn't in existence 1980. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_and_Socialist_Party)

Or do you mean the Socialist Workers Party? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_%28United_States%29)

I know of no "Workers Socialist Party", and neither does Google.

[dr60omg]

74. Oh Matt: Can you tell me the difference between the following only then I might consider answering

Have you ever known someone who lost their job or livelihood because of red baiting?
What was kinderland? How has that changed over time?
Name someone well known who stood up to our position in Nicaragua? What is the difference between standing in solidarity with Nicaragua and a blanket statement about the similarities between support for Iran and support for Nicaragua?

What happened to Salvador Allende? Was he elected to office? What was the United States' position?


Where did Trotsky live after he had to leave Russia? Concurrently where was he murdered?
What famous artists helped Trostsky? What anti-Semitic capitalist pulled one of the artists masterpieces off of a building? Which building?

What are the differences between Marx, Trotsky and Lenin? Can you also explain the differences between Marx and Che? Marx and Gramsci?

What is the difference between Rosa Luxembourg and Emma Goldman?

What does it mean to be anti-semitic? Name some forces of anti-semitism in the United States? Which industrialists in the US supported what the Nazi's did in Europe?

What does it mean to be a red bating anti-semite?

[arcane1]

75. Wow. This post is so lame you can't even get a rec from the Clinton supporters

[beam me up scottie]

83. I'm shocked actually, I thought at least one person would rec it.

Maybe she hasn't seen it yet.

[Skeeter Barnes]

82. the horrors of socialism

[seekthetruth]

84. Get with the times

People out here in Seattle are joining the Socialist Alternative party in droves. Socialism just isn't the scary word that that, yes I'll say this, old people think it is. Or at least people who are stuck in their ways and think conventionally....

[tralala]

86. Solidarity with *Nicaragua*?? Well I never!

As an Ollie-North-Democrat you can bet Sanders has lost my vote.

[Lint Head]

88. I invite everyone on my social list to all my grand parties.

[redstateblues]

101. The good news is that the Republicans would

Never use being a Socialist against Bernie. They definitely wouldn't twist it to make it look as bad as possible. It would be a big plus in the GE with the American electorate. It only has positive connotations i.e.: the failed Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

[noretreatnosurrender]

102. Theme for the Day

This is the 2nd red baiting thread I've seen tonight. I can't believe someone would actually try to promote McCarthyism in 2016. Is that you Tailgunner Joe back from the dead?

[The Midway Rebel]

104. Ahh, nostalgia.