"Giving Away Free Stuff" has been a GOP Right Wing Meme for years

[Armstead]

It's traditionally used to denigrate liberal policies and important social services for the poor and education, and programs that help average people and the overall public interest.

Wingnuts like Rush Limbaugh and hatchet-wielding politicians like Paul Ryan loves to denigrate policies with that cute little phrase.

It's a damn shame that it has also become the mantra of the Clinton campaign and its supporters.

Great way to guarantee the country has Two Conservative Parties opposed to social and economic justice and the Public Good.

[PonyUp]

1. Clinton has turned DU into Bizzaro World. n/t

[NCTraveler]

2. DFA fund raising survey I was sent this morning.

"Do you support free college education?"

[Armstead]

4. Them Republicans hate the idea of public education

[beam me up scottie]

3. Red baiting, moocher class, rants about raising taxes, it's FreeRepublic in here.

I'm waiting for them to dust off the welfare queen stereotype.

[Armstead]

5. John Stossel for Vice President!

[beam me up scottie]

10. One of her supporters is posting anti-Bernie right wing memes from a tea party website.

You really can't tell them apart sometimes.

[cosmicone]

6. It becomes an issue when it goes beyond the pale.

Education is a personal investment to attain a higher income just as opening a shoe store or a burrito stand.

Why should tuition be free? I like Hillary's plan better where the students are not buried under an unmanageable debt while retaining some skin in the game by tying payments to actual future earnings with a writeoff after a certain number of years.

If students can get free tuition, why not give anyone who wants to start a small business free grant to do so?

Democrats are for giving a hand up to people who are climbing but a majority of democrats are not supportive of carrying someone on their back to the summit.

[Armstead]

7. Getting a K-12 education is an investment in the EXACT SAME way

So let's abolish free public education altogether

[cosmicone]

9. No. K-12 is basic education

which allows a person to be a productive citizen.

Becoming a lawyer, doctor, engineer, accountant or scientist beyond K-12 is a higher goal of choice to attain better wages and status in society.

[Armstead]

13. It's unnecessary. Kids don't need Dick and Jane to clean toilets..

That readin and writin stuff is just for those selfish people for whom cleaning toilets all their life is not sufficient.

[Downwinder]

26. Education is a National Security Issue.

The Air Force requires a College Degree to be a Pilot.

[Armstead]

8. I guess you agree with these guys

[cosmicone]

12. Non sequitur

I am all for giving a helping hand which creates a manageable debt and extra grants for low income households to make it a level playing field. I explained that in my post.

[Armstead]

14. Extra grants....Phony non-market rate public loans? That's free stuff

Nobody needs a coillege education...Let's 'em pay for it if they want to selfishly advance beyond minimum wage jobs.

[Armstead]

17. In a more measured vein....

I have no problem with debate over where the line should be drawn in specific terms...or how practical particular policies might be,

It's the wholesale denigration of the goals of a progressive like Sanders with right wing memes like "free stuff" and "ponies" that I am talking about. There was no bigger pony in the world than Medicare and Medicaid and before that Social Security. Hell, even a weekend and no child labor were ponies at one time.

The Democratic Party has too long gone along with the GOP agenda in that way. They have echoed the same attacks on basic liberal principles and helped to push the country to the right.

[cosmicone]

32. Socia security and medicare are not ponies.

People put money in those programs which they get back. Some more, some less depending upon lifetime earning and longevity but they are basically good programs.

I am not for the private loans which are close to usury. However, I don't see anything wrong with someone paying the loans off as a fixed percentage of their earnings rather than a fixed payment which may be impossible.

[Armstead]

37. If they did not exist today and a non-Clintn proposed them....

they would be called ponies. I guarantee you.

"What!?? Waste money on free healthcare for old people? You've got to be kidding me. You know how much that'll cost? How do you propose to pay for that? And they're going to die in a few years anyway. No one will ever support that and the GOP will never go along...What a fricking pony!"


Just look at the resistance to Sander's proposal for an expansion of Medicare to actually provide health care for everyone NOT FREE BUT Affordable!

[islandmkl]

34. this comment from above reveals a certain view of peoples' goals and aspirations...

"Becoming a lawyer, doctor, engineer, accountant or scientist beyond K-12 is a higher goal of choice to attain better wages and status in society."...

there is a chance, and I would submit not a small one, that most people are not motivated merely by money and status...possibly they want to pursue their desired path in life...

'making more of yourself' is a concept that is an individual endeavor...regardless of what 'people of control' might want to tell you...

goes along with their whole 'bootstraps' meme....

[cosmicone]

39. There already are tuition waivers for people who promise

to serve the underprivileged after the degree. Most don't take that option.

One can get a free medical education if one agrees to work for USPHS or IHS for 5 years.

[ThePhilosopher04]

21. That's complete bullshit. Education is about being educated. Higher incomes often follow, but ...

many highly educated people, with advanced degrees, choose to follow their life's calling rather than chase the income. Teachers, social workers, journalists, etc., come to mind. Why on earth anyone would want to force human beings to jump through hoops to become educated is beyond me. Of course, we know the reasons why, and they aren't good ones.

[bjo59]

27. It's so sad that higher education has come be seen as job training only by so many.

[libtodeath]

55. Sounds like you would have supported Hoover over FDR.

Just sad.

[DanTex]

11. And the Washington Times has been a right-wing journal for many years.

But I have yet to see any of the people complaining about "right-wing memes" object to the constant onslaught of right-wing smears against Hillary here. So you'll understand if I think this aversion you have to things right-wing is mostly for show.

And then there were supposed "progressives" defending Bernie's decision to give the gun industry legal immunity. That was truly eye-opening.

[beam me up scottie]

16. You're wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1615739

And I didn't see you objecting when Hillary supporters linked to anti-Semitic articles, a Holocaust denier's website and Stormfront.

That was truly eye opening.

[DanTex]

18. Credit where credit is due. Well done.

Problem is, three or four of those get posted every day, and objections like yours are extremely rare. Still, I appreciate that.

I haven't seen any articles from Stormfront posted here but if I did, I'd be sure to object. I believe that it happened, there are trolls everywhere, but nothing like with the regularity of right-wing smears against Hillary.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Thanks and I agree, both sides do it and it should be called out.

Linking to those sites puts money in their pockets that they use to smear the left, the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

[cosmicone]

35. You are ready for unity!!

[SheenaR]

20. Progressive thinker here

I defend giving the industry legal immunity if they sold legal weapons responsibly. This is not eye-opening. It's common sense. I am not a fan of guns, nor am I pro-gun. But if someone legally buys a gun, the shop and the maker of that gun should not be paying out settlements if someone uses that gun irresponsibly. The onus should be on screening the buyers of said guns.

And your campaign, under the guise of David Brock, have been using "RW Smears" for months, starting with asking for his health records to scare people about Bernie's age.

Every time there is something said about Hillary, it's a RW smear. Nope. In most cases, it's a Democrat asking her to be held accountable for her words and actions.

[DanTex]

24. Well, that's the NRA talking point, but it greatly obscures the truth.

And it's at least as right-wing as the "free stuff" meme. The gun industry should play by the same rules as everyone else. As it is now, if an industry is knowingly profiting from facilitating criminal activity and death, they can be held accountable, unless that industry is the gun industry, in which case the same legal standards don't apply.

I hear all the talk about holding "corporation" accountable, but here we have corporations that market and sell guns in ways and in places where they know they will end up in hands of criminals, and yet even some "progressives" are saying, no, we should remove the legal tools available to hold those corporations accountable.


Also, yes, the articles posted here from right-wing journals against Hillary are most definitely right-wing smears. Why do you think we keep seeing links to the Washington Times and Weekly Standard and other such places on a Democratic message board?

[SheenaR]

28. here

if an industry is knowingly profiting from facilitating criminal activity and death,

Again, I am fiercely anti-gun. But I am pro-liberty. You are painting with very broad strokes here. A gun shop is selling a gun knowingly to a person approved to buy that gun. Whether it be for protection in their home or a larger weapon used for hunting. They are not knowingly facilitating the criminal activity.

In case where assault weapons and where weapons are sold to those without the proper paperwork and/or background checks? We are in complete agreement.

[Myrina]

15. It utterly blows my mind that supposed 'progressives' and 'liberals' buy into that shit.

Its like nails on a chalkboard when I hear it from my right wing family members, but to hear it from someone running for the Democratic nomination? OMFG.


What the hell has happened to "our" party? /rhetorical question

[Autumn]

22. A GOP Right Wing Meme that democrats are more than happy to embrace.

Last edited Thu Mar 31, 2016, 02:16 PM - Edit history (1)

[apnu]

23. Of course it is. The GOP has been making up memes for decades, they have nothing else to say.

Nobody, nor any real movement, in America has ever demanded "free stuff" This is pure Republican fiction. Republicans make stuff up and then back slap each other over it. I see it all the time. The place where I work is 90% Republican, I hear this kind of thing every single day.

They have no ideas, no policies, no actual plans for everything. To the Republican, things are fine the way they are now, and its everybody else who's trying to take something from them. Press them on solutions, any solution to any problem and they fall apart instantly. The rank and file conservatives and Republicans and all the way up to the top, have this problem.

[Armstead]

47. It seems to be contagious and is spreading to Dems unfortunately

[apnu]

53. Not this Dem (nt)

[Armstead]

54. Not millions of others either.

[treestar]

56. Exactly

They believe they will have something taken from them and won't get anything in return, just assuming that to be the case because they think of themselves as successful. And add to that the reason they shouldn't have to help the less fortunate by claiming the poor are that way because they didn't work hard enough and all they have to do is work harder and they'll have as much. They do not wish to face the fact it could happen to them one day.

[BKH70041]

25. What's wrong with "Giving Away Free Stuff"?

It wins the Democratic Party a lot of elections by "Giving Away Free Stuff".

Are people getting things? Are the things they're getting costing them personally little or no money?

As long as it's doing that, and by virtue of that these recipients keep voting for Democratic candidates, I don't really care what someone wants to call it.

[Gwhittey]

42. Because none of it is Free really

People pay taxes and from thoses taxes government pays for stuff. It is unlike all free stuff corporations that Hillary supports get. They don't pay any Taxes anymore because of loopholes yet we dole out subsides to them. For example Boeing got back $199 million from the government in 2013. Over the past dozen years, during which Boeing reported to its shareholders a total profit of more than $43 billion, the company’s net cumulative refund of federal tax is more than $1.6 billion. This is thanks to lowering the tax on corporations that Bill Clinton and Bush have done. Add in the Export-Import Bank(Which Hillary try to con people into being a good thing) they are making more money from the government while making billions in profits.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-has-big-tax-refund-coming-from-uncle-sam-mdash-again/

[BKH70041]

46. That goes without saying.

But if we go up to voters and say "Hi! We're from the Democratic Party. Please vote for us in the coming election. BTW, here's some cell phones and they're free to you!", what do I care as long as it works?

[SheenaR]

29. Free Stuff = Rights Citizens Around the Western World have at birth

I expect it from the Republicans, but it's Democrats in our country and especially on this site that push the free stuff meme.

We deserve the same rights that countries with far less than us provide to their citizens.

[upaloopa]

30. What word do you object to "free" or "stuff"

Or do you disagree with the idea that Bernie supporters want free college and free health care?

I don't understand if Bernie is for free health care and free education why do you object to us saying so?

[Armstead]

31. I'm not even going to bother since you did not botehr to comprehend the OP

[upaloopa]

33. I comprehend the OP. You can't take criticism of Bernie even when it is true

[islandmkl]

36. for one thing, you throw 'free' around pretty loosely...and, guessing you are smart,

i would think that you know exactly what you are doing...

you attach 'free' and 'stuff' and the like to your 'critical' post and expect it to be considered for anything more than what it is?

juvenile to some degree, repub (or maybe republite™) by nature...

the OP had you nailed at the very top

[Avalux]

38. It's jarring how many right wing talking points show up here, courtesy of Hillary Inc.

There's only one candidate running on Democratic ideology and it isn't Hillary.

[EndElectoral]

40. They have no problems giving corporate welfare away, but to common folks it's an entitlement

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

41. Carrying their water! The REPUBLICANS get all the freebies! Attacking Bernie is pure folly!

Shame on you idiots.

[TheDormouse]

43. Same thing Mittens said when he lost--said Obama got votes by promising free stuff nt

[Armstead]

50. And he was excoiated for it on DU as I recall....My how times change

[taught_me_patience]

44. If you propose "free" college and only the rich have to pay for it

then... yeah... I'll accuse you of "giving away free stuff". If free college is a great benefit to society, then shouldn't we all chip in to pay for it?

[Armstead]

45. It's a version of progressive taxation

And if that doesn't work, yeah we might have to amend it and all have to chip in. Just like we all pay for public education now, whether we have kids or not.

And if Bernie said that now, the same "anti-free stuff" Democrat conservatives would start yabbering at how Bedrnie will raise your taxes -- just like the GOP has been doing.

One can debate specifics of policy.

However, when Democrats use the same insulting mischaracterizations of basic liberal principles as "free stuff" it only empowers the GOP message.

[ibegurpard]

48. yup

This primary has definitely exposed the frauds.

[frylock]

49. It's a conservative meme used by conservatives.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

51. and

Ignore the right wing trolls who do nothing but parrot fox news talking points

like calling Media Matters nothing but propaganda, etc.

If you ignore them, completely, they will lose their power here.

Ignore the person who posts thread after thread about the certain indictment of Hillary Clinton, something that is NEVER going to happen as it relates to the emails.

Now that could happen someday on something else, she is after all a mainstream politician, i.e. capable of doing something indictable, but emails? Nope.


I could sit here and say all kinds of critical stuff about Hillary and some of Bernie (not as much though) and yet I wont have to sound like Bill O'Reilly to do it.

There is a difference.

You can acknowledge the weak positions of Hillary or Bernie and be credible by not using any right wing memes or sources AND simultaneously support both candidates.



(Yes, David Brock has gone too far a couple times in defending Hillary, but that is a FAR cry from the accusations of fox news and it is ugly when folks around here pick up on that crap)

[Odin2005]

52. Hillary and her supporters are Republicans pretending to be Democrats.

[eridani]

57. Sneering at socialism is a vicious Republican attack on the very idea of public goods.

If public goods are bad, there should not be such a thing as public education. If you grow up in a house with a library and your parents can afford tutors, then you get an education. Otherwise you don't deserve one. If you want retired people with no kids at home to pay for school bonds, you are just shilling for "free stuff." College tuition used to be free in quite a few states. Those who want it to be so again are just more parasites shilling for "free stuff."

I like my Marxist fire department quite a bit. It is paid for by the government stealing a lot of money from people who have never had fires. The more your property is worth, the more property taxes you have to pay to support it. That would be "from each according to his abilities." But they don't send a truck out unless you have a fire. That would be "to each according to his need."

Every single industrialized country in the world treats health care as a public good, with lots of different ways of paying the bills. Here it's like an iPod. If you have money or good insurance you get it. Otherwise you can fuck off and die, which is nothing but what sick, useless parasites deserve.

And then there's all that physical infrastructure--roads, airports, dams. Be grateful for our interstate highway system. Ike paid for it with a 90% top marginal tax rate, so if we ever had to replace it, we couldn't. And if you don't have a car, why should you pay for highways you can't drive on anyway?

It is the nature of socialist public goods that
1. Everyone pays, regardless of usage.
2. They are usually free at the point of service.

How would private enterprise even exist without massive investment in public infrastructure?

[Armstead]

58. Private enterprise would shrivel and die in a skinny minute