Sanders: "We'll see" about raising funds for down ballet dems = NOT serious about "revolution'

[uponit7771]

... cause this guy knows better or should.

The revolution is established in congress, he knows that... there's no one in Washington that doesn't know that.

His overt dismissal of congress in the government has gotten more than creepy in rhetoric, everyone knows McConnell doesn't give a shit about a trillion people sitting outside of his window.... that doesn't sway the GOP congress.

or..

or..

He's just not a serious about "revolution" or serious about change and doesn't want to be president or something... he just wants to talk crap

Who in the hell as a party candidate doesn't raise money for the party representatives?!

There's no "we'll see" ...

This dude is his own worst enemy

[revbones]

1. Maybe he should start a "Victory Fund"

to supposedly funnel funds to down ballot dems in exchange for super-delegate votes but that also allows his campaign to take unlimited money from?

Would that work? Cuz that's what Hillary did...

[uponit7771]

3. Fine with me, could care less ... saying "we'll see" about funding down ballet dems is the sibject t

... though and how in the hell is he supposed to be serious about revolution without a congress behind him!?!!?

This guy is just talking crap...

[revbones]

4. Sure. We'll see.

How many downballot Dems have gotten money from the Hillary Victory Fund so far?

[uponit7771]

6. No "we" wont see at all about supporting down ballet dems. That's not a "we'll see" question...

... for someone who's serious about changing things.

This "we'll see" undercuts his whole damn message and I don't care if Wall Street gave HRC trillions in paper bags on prime time TV she still supports more change than someone who is still "seeing" about supporting down ballet dems.

Sanders isn't serious, he's wasting peoples time

[revbones]

26. Sure. We'll see

how much "support" Hillary gives.

[virtualobserver]

14. since Hillary takes her $5400 cut before anyone else gets a dime.....

....and the next $33,400 goes to the DNC....it is hard to imagine that the state parties are getting very much...

Bernie only has a few hundred people who have maxed out at $2700.

the Hillary Victory fund relies on the same rich donors as her SuperPACS do.

Bernie doesn't have many rich donors.

[politicaljunkie41910]

47. You Bernie supporters can't have it both ways. You can't boast about how much he's

out raising Clinton by with $27 donations on one hand and then claim that he doesn't have the funds to contribute to the DNC. Bernie has been out fund raising and outspending Clinton the past two months. The fact that he doesn't have much to show for it is his problem.

[virtualobserver]

48. we don't have it both ways.....Hillary is taking the first $5400....and she won't give away a dime..

of that money....She isn't contributing ANYTHING to the DNC....only when she has received the legal limit does any money go anywhere else.

Sorry, but we Bernie supporters don't have the cash of Hillary's rich donors....

[timmymoff]

66. Yea actually we can

because these are private individuals who are donating. Not lobbying firms, Not super pacs, not 335,000 dollar meals with celebrities.

[Politicalboi]

76. He's not as easy to buy as Hillary

So how can he get those donors. And besides, we don't want someone who owes "favors" for money like Hillary does. Maybe Debbie Downer can get off her ass and work for ALL Dem's instead of one who again is going to OWE her a lot.

[roguevalley]

46. given that he doesn't have zillions raised from crooks and banks, he

has to husband the money we send him carefully. He would if he could. HRC on the other hand has plenty to spare.

[LexVegas]

2. That'll take money from Tad. nt

[uponit7771]

8. Tad HAS to be a gopr, that guy is bad news to any dems campaigns

[LexVegas]

11. He's making a lot of money, that's for sure. Takin' it to the convention! nt

[uponit7771]

15. Yeap, I'm sure he's part of the 5% at least...

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. not supporting the DLC dems is a requirement if he wants my money

Why would he give them money to funnel to hillary?

[uponit7771]

7. ALL of them are funneling money to HRC?! A bird from a podium tell you that?!

[auntpurl]

10. lol

[Viva_La_Revolution]

18. dlc dems? probably. not all dems of course

[CalvinballPro]

9. I disagree with you completely.

His supporters and their behavior are his worst enemy.

[uponit7771]

12. lol... that's prolly true.. he's getting up there though

[Politicalboi]

78. We're Hillary's worst enemy

And we vote.

[whatchamacallit]

13. Yes, revolution = supporting the old, corrupt, broke-ass system

Lame OP

[auntpurl]

16. That broke-ass system (Congress) is the one that will have to pass ANY of Bernie's platform.

Or is the revolution more a state of mind than a substantive change in the lives of Americans?

[uponit7771]

19. Someone posted as much... "mind change" = revolution... as if Ryan gives a shit about "minds"

[Orsino]

23. The Establishment would love for Bernie to unilaterally disarm. n/t

[auntpurl]

25. Do you even hear yourself?

"The Establishment" is a bunch of politicians, not the freaking Evil Empire. Politicians need to be elected. Downticket politicians need support and name recognition from the pres candidate. It's not complicated. If Bernie has the faintest hope of getting ANYTHING through congress (spoiler alert: he doesn't), he needs a massive shift in the number of elected Dem Senators and Reps. So what's his plan, if he's not going to do that? What is the revolution for? Is it to actually ENACT any of the stuff he's promising? Or is it an intellectual exercise?

[Orsino]

34. The Establishment's SOP is the purchasing of influence.

That's part of why Sanders is running for president, and why he has garnered the support he has.

He's not asking other politicians whether he will be allowed aboard the gravy train. He's offering us all a different sort of ride.

[whatchamacallit]

30. I'm not referring specifically to congress

though until we get serious and remove the money from the system, we will mostly get pigs at the trough from both parties. This most profound and fundamental change is not likely to happen from those beholden to the system. Incrementalism has had its day and has failed the people of this country. The most obvious substantive change is the rich get richer and everybody else sinks.

[Armstead]

43. It is partly a state of mind

It is convincing Democratic politicians that they should not guide their decisions based on whether Monsantio or GE or Goldman or otehr Big Institutional lobbyists will approve of legislation.

[Armstead]

81. In Burlington he had a hostile city council when he was elected

He did what he is talking about now, and used his position as the CEO (mayor) to ra;lly support to elect a better council once he was in.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/20/bernie-sanders-is-the-uncola-of-american-politics/

FIX: Describe Sanders time as mayor of Burlington. Is he viewed as a successful mayor? Why or why not?

GRAFF: Incredibly successful. The origins of almost everything great in Burlington today can be traced back to Bernie’s tenure as mayor. When he was elected in 1981 many city leaders feared he would care more about foreign policy (his team and his supporters were known as "Sanderistas&quot than city matters. But he was laser-focused on fixing potholes and economic development and rebuilding the waterfront and saving the downtown and providing arts and developing programs for children. Today Burlington ranks as one of the most livable cities in the nation.

[auntpurl]

82. Okay, but

do you really think the level of hostility he faced in a city council in BURLINGTON, VERMONT can possibly compare to a Republican-majority US Congress?

Sorry, there's no comparison.

[Armstead]

85. Character and talent is constant

The scale may be different but the role and basic talents required and goals can be consistent.

And in fairness, Clinton is also a wild card. She has not had similar demonstrable experience in the actual business of governing executive experience.

[uponit7771]

17. Again.. ALL OF the down ballet dems are old, corrupt, broke!? REALLY?! Fuckin wow...

[greatauntoftriplets]

24. I wonder if they're including someone like Tammy Duckworth on that list.

[whatchamacallit]

32. If they're not at first, they will be once they're ensconced in the game. n/t

[Dawgs]

20. Yep.

[larkrake]

21. congress will never instigate change. what the hell are you taking about

to them, the people are serfs to be used and abused

[uponit7771]

50. I'm talking as a person who doesn't put so much weight into birds on podiums !!! Of course congress

... doesn't instigate change they're representatives not leaders!!

What the hell!!

WE... the people who want change... put them in congress via organization etc ...

WE have more votes to put people in congress who we want

[larkrake]

79. they are suppose to represent constituants, but they end up representing their donors, get real

with very few exceptions. They place lobbyists, special interest groups and "Party" over their people. They obstruct, letting their constituants rot at home . They block jobs bills, cut infrastructure repair, allow for bogus investigations, spend oodles for rebuilding other countries while ignoring ours, and pass trade agreements that steal from us.

Historically change comes from abused people, not from Congress. We have to set their feet on fire for them to listen to us, so lets do that.

[geek tragedy]

22. this is why we have closed primaries, so that people who want to

run the Democratic party over a cliff don't get the driver's wheel.

[dr60omg]

27. Democrats are revolutionaries? Really? The DLC? DECONTEXTUALIZE MUCH?

Pluuuuzzzeeeee the Democrats are not revolutionaries

Bernie Sanders could have run an independent campaign and that would have been fine. Instead he ran as a Democrat and I think the Democrats should be happy about that.

DID YOU SEE THE ENTIRE QUOTE? Do you decontextualize often?

[WhiteTara]

28. Maybe he could campaign with some candidates.

Have them on the podium with him and extol their virtues.

[Kip Humphrey]

29. Ha! Bernie won't shill for Republicrats and Corporadem DNC sponsored candidates!

Its pissing Hillarians off no end, so they make totally uninformed proclamations about the "revolution" of which they play absolutely no part and are completely uninformed. Try again.

Bernie's #1 priority is to win the Democratic nomination, get it??? What you don't see in Fortress Hillary is what IS going on in the revolution. That said, you WILL find out.

[uponit7771]

51. what about the ones who aren't corporadems? tia

[lore]

31. money for the DNC is contractual for all presidential candidates ... for the downstream

Hillary started first, she signed her contract first. She has also run before. So there is a lot of 'downstream' funding that she has provided over time. Bernie also signed his contract, so a portion of his contributions go to the DNC for downstream battles. there was an article recently that showed DWS has opened the DNC for additional funds. Another article states that Hillary has been given control of monies to hand out - instead of the DNC.

So a lot of the propaganda I see against Bernie is 'timing' or amount of time, or simply the lack of collecting corporate funds -- I believe every Democratic candidate is required to 'pull in' a certain amount of funds.

So is this another source than the contract? If candidates don't have 'control' over PACs - how can they 'get' that money?

Please let me know what I missed on this.

[21st Century Poet]

33. Sanders is frugal and he respects his donors.

He is not going to ask his supporters for more money than is necessary and he is not going to funnel money to people he is not sure about yet. Everything in its own time. This post is trying to create a storm in a teacup.

[ThePhilosopher04]

35. Actually the opposite is true. Not all down ballot Ds running are good for the revolution

in fact, quite the opposite. Got to weed out the trash and pick your spots who to support. I agree with Bernie on this.

[MinnieBlum]

37. Weed out the "trash" Dems and you have the Republicans.

Good luck.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. 5 Democrats voted for the NC anti LGBT law last week. Almost all of them voted for DOMA in 92.

That 'D' is not in and of itself proof of value. The people who had to be hounded and persuaded to stop pandering to Rick Warren types were Democrats like Hillary Clinton and the bulk of her endorsers who were among the last Democrats to climb off the gay bashing train.

[Newkularblue]

77. Agreed

[MinnieBlum]

36. Bernie supporters have lost touch with reality (if they ever had any)

How is he going to get his revolutionary program through Congress if Dems don't hold the majority?

He doesn't care about down ballot Dems and his supporters appear to be ignorant of the fact that anybody beyond Bernie is running for office this year.

I exchanged views with a BernieBro on twitter. I asked him how Bernie was going to get his program through with no support in Congress. He told me that when Bernie was a mayor and the City Council opposed him, he got them fired! So all Bernie has to do is get the whole country to rise up in revolt against the Congress (not by voting mind you, I guess by setting the House of Reps on fire??)
and they wouldn't dare go against Bernie's desiderata.

You can't invent these people... They're as dumb as Trump supporters.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Your post is like a template I see all over DU today. 'Insult Bernie supporters as emotional and

unrealistic. Share 'real life story' from random persons on Twitter or Facebook. Claim all Bernie supporters are like the one you just made up. Offer no links, cite no actual sources. Insult them again using Trump.'

It's repetitive, boring and ineffective material.

[pat_k]

38. To win, he needs to focus on his campaign

There's plenty of time to promote contributions for Congressional Dems as we head into GE.

P.S. By activating more people in GE, he would be helping down ballot. His coattails are longer.

[lore]

39. pointing out that Bernie has worked against the odds before .... is stupid?

Frankly, I think the ENTHUSIASM for Bernie would mean far more Democratic candidates are elected. I think that Bernie would also win over Trump supporters during any debate -- even now people are able to talk them over! Bernie would have a bigger majority to work with if he is the nominee.

In addition, Bernie doesn't have one answer to 'fix' things. He knows how things works, he know different options that can be utilized, and how to work for compromise and adding amendments to fix things. Various ways and methods that he can utilize himself or thru others even as president.

While you complain about what voters do or don't know --- I think it is our job to educate others and pass on info because the mainstream media doesn't help and knowing the right question for google isn't always easy and I have seen some erroneous results returned.

While it is easy to write people off as ignorant -- sometimes the answer is not to toss out an insult but to ask the appropriate source instead of making voters responsible for being political and candidate experts. I run into a lot of people who can't articulate their feelings - a curious person asks leading questions to aid the discovery process. While an ideologue is a brick wall most people will have civil discussions.

[Armstead]

40. Meme of the day I guess...Soooooo boring. Can't people use a little originality?

[Bluenorthwest]

42. There are a handful of Hillary 'supporters' who basically bash Bernie in hand crafted OP's one after

the other. My challenge to them as a group is to see if they can bash the Jewish candidate for 3 days running without any 'he's cheap about money' or 'he's a commie' themes. I do not think they can do it because I think the core motivation for their habitual bashing is in fact the very antisemitism some have been PPR'd for and others have been found to engage in, even as they act like the Stainless Righteous Few.

So. Can they berate without the bait? I hardly think so. The bait is their message.

[uponit7771]

60. There's no "bashing" Bernie in my op, Sanders "we'll see" is selfish as hell. Only in a land

... where a bird landing on a podium means more than just that do people think everyone in the DNC is sold out.

Whatever

[Bluenorthwest]

67. I do like the idea of a Down Ballet, or of Democrats down with ballet. So we agree on that if not

upon what the words actually mean.

You and a few others have a set of themes in your attacks on Sanders that are noticed, and they do you and your candidate no favors. Accepting my challenge would make you a better advocate for Hillary.

[Doctor_J]

45. Instead he's raising millions of VOTES for the party. Too bad the hillarians don't care about that

If he's the nominee the entire party will have millions of new young members. If not, maybe they can use Hillary's money to buy votes

[bravenak]

49. It's all about him.

[yardwork]

52. This is one of the main reasons I don't support him.

[snowy owl]

55. What if you disagree with H on who she supports?

Oh, that's right. You're loyalists. She does all your thinking for you.

[uponit7771]

56. I still help her, its not all about me

[snowy owl]

57. who said it was "all about you." My questions stands.

So you will let her decide your values? If that's what you're saying, then say it.

[uponit7771]

58. Nope, wont let her decide my values and wont let Trump run the country into the ground either..

... wish life was either off or on but its not.

Maturity involves having to decide the best of the worst, that IS life

[snowy owl]

63. Bet I'm more "mature" - maturity is what you make it. Life, also.

So the MSM has sucked you into the Trump propaganda as well. Maturity expects people to learn to critically think about life. You've been reeled in by the propaganda of corporate media. Trump who gets so much media he can't keep up and so they are destroying him with his own words and Sanders who gets mocked and dismissed and substantially less real media time.

Why don't you see Cruz and Kasich that often? Because they are in the pockets of corporatists and Kochs. They bow to big money. Only Trump and Sanders are self funding. That scares the puppeteers. They will do anything to prevent Trump and Sanders from succeeding. The more time Trump gets, the more bizarre he sounds. He'll forget half of what he said if does win which is highly unlikely. They won't let him. Because you're distracted by Trump, the establishment will replace him with Cruz or Kasich. then where will we be? Both could and I really think Kasich would beat Hillary. Well, I don't really think Cruz will win but you never know.

But those puppeteers will never allow two self-funding candidates to get the nomination. Read these words from this mature critical thinker who sees the big picture and remember them.

[uponit7771]

64. I no longer believe the Sanders white dove narative, you can all you want but Birdiebro is a fantasy

... and so is "his hands are clean" meme too.

He's bout as human as everyone else in that stage and his bag of bad may have difference crap in it but its bout as full too.

Everything being equal, and it is...

HRC is the least risky, I can't afford to take a chance on might be slightly better with Sanders

[snowy owl]

69. "least risky" - say that without the ad hominems and insults. I get it.

Voting for least risky, that's your decision. Can't you just say that without all the snark, innuendo, and Bernie bashing?

I can give you a whole issues-oriented argument why she's not the least risky but is the most risky for our future. But you've obviously made up your mind.

[uponit7771]

70. Saying I don't believe Sanders is the white dove folk fiengned on him isn't an ad hom...

... and Sanders own words help me make up my mind.

Issue - Sanders single focus goes to the level of being dismissive to issues that are ascribed to that single focus. It's unloving at best and the rest of his act of caring about the other issues ....enough.... is patronizing.

A cop blast a hole in a babies face shouldn't be addressed by ad homs of his boogyman... that's not ... that's not cool.

[snowy owl]

75. You were snarky. I was clear in my response.

Issue - Sanders single focus goes to the level of being dismissive to issues that are ascribed to that single focus. It's unloving at best and the rest of his act of caring about the other issues ....enough.... is patronizing.

A bunch of words does not an issue make. Unloving? Uncaring? And cops blasting babies? OMG! All distractions and desperate ones at that.

Not relevant to the issues facing the country. You are reaching for words to negatively personalize Bernie. Stick to issues.

If you haven't nothing better, I'm done.

[yardwork]

61. I want Democrata elected.

[Starry Messenger]

53. So much for coat tails, eh?

[snowy owl]

54. Another distraction. I decide where my money goes. Clinton helped Tim Canova?

Debbie's opponent in Florida? Yes? No? You don't know? Why not?

This post is just another distraction from real issues.

[uponit7771]

59. Hopefully not if she didn't want to, but the common theme of stupid excuses in this thread defending

... Sanders is ALL of the down ballet dems are corrupt and broke.

That excuse for Sanders selfishness is corrupt and broke.

[snowy owl]

65. Sanders' selfishness? Explain that please.

BTW, it's ballot and not ballet - which is a dance.

[uponit7771]

68. Yes, "we'll see" is bout as selfish and entitled as one can get who borrows an organizations

... infrastructure and decides to leave no better or worse than what he found it.

Then

not share because he believes said borrowed organizations infrastructure is all "corrupt or broke" or something similar.

Whatever...

[snowy owl]

72. B people are issues voters. I'm sorry but your sensitivity isn't relevant right now.

Hillary has enough money to give away, great. I'll give her a gold star for that. But, her generosity isn't relevant to our country's issues and the loss of our democracy. Bernie's choices of charity are his business. So are mine. I donated to him-nobody else. Again, this is another emotional meaningless distraction from the real needs of a country in trouble.

[noamnety]

62. This should be left to the National Endowment for the Arts.

My apologies to Emma Goldman, and I hope Bernie will support the NEA, but he doesn't need to be focused on raising money for dancers right now. He needs to focus on the campaign.

"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."

[NobodyHere]

71. Hard to take a person with Katt Williams as an avatar seriously

[uponit7771]

74. Will you take me seriously if I said Birdiebro asked me to do it? tia

[SHRED]

73. DWC and the DNC hate him

Nice try though.

[randome]

83. That's okay. He hates the Democratic Party, too.

You can't get someone to change their behavior by constantly calling them names like 'corrupt'. You might say that's an accurate description but it doesn't accomplish anything, it's just mud-slinging. A skilled politician would be able to finesse the language and make inroads and accomplish the much-sought-after changes.

Sanders does not work well with others and it shows.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[w4rma]

84. Just the Rockefeller Republicans who have been infiltrating the Democratic Party. (nt)

[FSogol]

86. A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT from FSogol

It is ballot, not ballet.

Ballot =

Ballet =

Cheers