All **ANYONE** needs to know about Sarandon, and her fellow travellers

[ConservativeDemocrat]

Here she is, in all her glory, the last time she decided that America needed to be "taught a lesson" for refusing to vote for the petulant left.



Did she bury anyone on 9/11 after Bush ignored the warnings?
Did she bury any son who volunteered to fight Al Qaida, and instead got sent to Iraq?

All because, according to the Naderites, Al Gore wasn't liberal enough, not environmentally conscious enough.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

1. This is the second red baiting thread today, did you lose your way? FreeRepublic is that way --->

Fellow traveller

"Fellow traveller" is a term, often pejorative, for a person who sympathizes with the beliefs of an organization or cooperates in its activities without maintaining formal membership in that particular group. The term was first used in the early Soviet Union to characterize writers and artists sympathetic to the goals of the Russian Revolution who declined to join the Communist Party. The English-language phrase came into vogue in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s as a pejorative term for a sympathizer of Communism who was nonetheless not an official or "card-carrying member" of a Communist party. 'Fellow travellers' were often accused of lending their names and prestige to Communist front organizations. In other languages the comparable terms are compagnon de route, sympathisant or progressistes in French; Weggenosse or (more generally) Sympathisant in German; and compagno di viaggio in Italian.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellow_traveller

[ConservativeDemocrat]

66. Democrats are not reds

Democrats are blue. And your definition nails it:

"Fellow traveller" is a term, often pejorative, for a person who sympathizes with the beliefs of an organization or cooperates in its activities without maintaining formal membership in that particular group.

In this case, we're talking about the so-called Green Party. In other words, the counterproductive petulant, authoritarian, Naderite, left.

If you're a Green, why are you posting on the Democratic Underground? More importantly, why should anyone listen to you?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

67. You are engaging in right wing tactics that are rooted in anti-Semitism.

Stop being willfully ignorant, you know exactly what you're doing when you red bait.

When you act like Trump people will begin to realize that you're the sympathizer, not Sarandon.

I can't even tell the difference between some HC supporters and Trump's anymore.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

80. No, you're engaging in sophistry to try to evade the point

Because you have absolutely no excuse for advocating a policy that will put Trump or Cruz in office, you spend your time trying to take a turn of phrase and try to pretend that it is "red baiting".

The answer to this is:

#1 Red baiting? So what? Communism was a cancer, responsible for millions of dead in horrific authoritarian regimes. If you're a communist, go to revleft.com. Whine all you want there.

#2 The subject isn't me. I'm not the one holding my breath, stomping my feet, claiming superior morality, and basically campaigning for Democrats to let Trump or Cruz win in November. It's people like you that are. That's why you're even responding like this, because you so desperately want this to be about anything but your own behavior.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

88. LMAO! You're so full of today's poutrage you're lashing out at teh COMMIES!!1!

My first instinct was to get angry, then to laugh, then to feel sorry for you and now I'm back to laughing at you again.

RUN AWAY!!!

SUSAN AND THE COMMIES ARE COMING TO GETCHA!!!

LOOK THERES ONE UNDER THE BED!

[ConservativeDemocrat]

135. Are you voting for the Democratic nominee? YES or NO?

Before you continue to write your crap deflections that fool no one, that question needs to be answered.

And if the answer is YES, then why are you defending Sarandon?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

139. Are you now...

[ConservativeDemocrat]

143. You didn't answer the question

Are you planning on voting for the Democratic nominee, even if that nominee may not be the one you voted for in the primary?

YES or NO.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

149. Yes I like turtles.

?itok=5aYmXgYL

[ConservativeDemocrat]

154. Are you voting for the Democratic nominee? YES or NO?

And just for you, I'll be happy to use your evasions as evidence against you.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

155. Of course n

ot, I'm a vegetarian, I would never eat turtle soup! How dare you???

I said I liked them as in they're cute. Like this lil guy:



Do you like turtles?

[MrMickeysMom]

156. Oh! Scottie!!!

I like turtles, too!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

158. And I'm not ashamed of it either! He can put me on his list!

I'm proud to stand with turtles!



And frogs too:

[ConservativeDemocrat]

169. Are you voting for the Democratic nominee? YES or NO?

Democratic nominee. YES or NO?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[bvf]

172. Can't you read?

I swear, some people are thick.

Would you rather have one really big-ass turtle, or a bunch of those little ones they used to sell by the pound at the dime store?

You must choose. NOW!

[beam me up scottie]

173. Good question, I'll have to think about it...

Do I like baby box turtles better:



Or baby sea turtles:



I can't decide, I love them both equally.

Besides which turtles I like better is kind of personal.

[Fuddnik]

202. I think you can buy turtle flavored bullion, that doesn't have any real turtle in it.

[beam me up scottie]

214. Does it come from mock turtles?

[Fairgo]

178. I love turtles!

I wish I knew how to post pictures. I would post pictures of turtles like you do.

[beam me up scottie]

179. It's easy!

Right click on the picture, choose 'copy image', then right click in the text box and choose 'paste'.

Voila! Turtle!

[Fairgo]

181. Yay! Turtles!

Thanks. You are the best!

[Fuddnik]

203. Answer the question! Are you gonna vote for a turtle or not!!!!

Inquiring zoologists want to know!

[beam me up scottie]

210. I'm going to have to check with my fellow testudiniskis.

In communes we make these decisions as a group.

[Warren Stupidity]

167. I'm voting COMMIE!

watcha gonna do if the commie wins the nommie?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

168. No communist is running for the nomination

The closest one is Sanders, who openly sympathized with the Sandinista and Cuban dictatorships, and explicitly excused their censorship of the press and only having State controlled media. Never the less, following the principle of the lesser of two evils, Sanders is preferable to both Trump and Cruz. So in that unfortunate circumstance, I'll be voting for Sanders.

Will you be voting for the Democratic nominee, no matter who it is?

YES or NO?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Warren Stupidity]

171. There are few things more tedious than a parody that takes

itself seriously.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

175. Indeed. So, Mr. Stupidity, if you're not a Democrat

...which includes anyone not voting for the Democratic nominee, go away.

If you are, you can say so easily enough.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[MrMickeysMom]

182. Ha!

So!

The plot THICKENS!!!

Here's a conservative who calls themselves a Democrat!

... No fuckin WAY!

[ConservativeDemocrat]

196. Far more of us conservative dems than there are of the kook left

Who have taken over the DU and refuse to back the Democratic nominee. 16% vs 10%



Hell, the vast majority of "Very liberal" Dems aren't kooks, and probably will back the nominee. You, Scottie and all you hate-filled Greens, literally represent such an absurdly small fraction of the body politic, it's hard to even poll. Sure are disproportionately noisy on websites though, I'll grant you that.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[MrMickeysMom]

198. So, by your phony definition...

... you're either a conservative Democrat or a Kook Democrat. I think you fit both.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

199. No. You're being deliberately disingenuous.

(At least I hope - you can't really be that stupid.)

Kook leftists are people who call themselves Democratic, Liberal, and/or "Progressive", but who would rather see Trump or Cruz be nominated, than the Democratic nominee, if that person isn't their first choice.

It's pretty simple, really. In a "Jews for Hitler" sort of way.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[MrMickeysMom]

205. That's your own myopic definition... Your idea is to convince yourself...

I'm not here to convince you of what defines reality. Apparently, your reality is made stronger in propping up a very weak understanding of why people cannot vote for fucking liars in the Democratic nomination.

You don't really fool anyone here who is a Democrat. You simply want to feel secure in your being proud to support a corporatist shill for Wall Street who doesn't have a problem with this country being ruled by an Oligarchy.

Knock yourself out.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

209. As I said... petulant kook

Here's the thing though. You don't get to define who is and who is not a Democrat, especially when you refuse to support the Democratic nominee.

I've already stated that I'll support Sanders, despite his penchant for lying, smearing, and providing aid and comfort to dictators who censor the press. That's because, for all his flaws, he's still better than Trump or Cruz. And if he wins the Democratic nomination, one must respect the will of the majority, if one is an actual Democrat.

So clearly, you're not.

Which leads to the obvious question -- why, other than trolling, are you and your fellow travelers here? There are plenty of non-Democratic websites around. Hell, I even have a Green who is a friend. But unlike you, he doesn't lie and say he's a Democrat, while trying to interfere with our nomination process. You should try revleft.com. You'd find much more agreement there.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[MrMickeysMom]

212. This is what you just said....

You don't get to define who is and who is not a Democrat, especially when you refuse to support the Democratic nominee.

Who the fuck is the Democratic nominee? Are you living in some time-rift ahead of the other humans on earth?

It's real easy to say you'll support someone "despite (their) penchant for lying, smearing and providing aid and comfort to dictators who censor the press."... Problem is, you don't know who the fuck is doing this.

You're a regular laugh riot.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

213. Advocate all you want for Sanders

Seriously, be my guest. I have absolute ZERO problem with people who like the guy better than Hillary. I dislike him for the reasons I mentioned (for which there is ample documentation, by the way), but if he floats your boat, then go for it.

That said, this whole OP is about Sarandon, who made statements that clearly indicated that she wasn't going to support any Democratic nominee in the general election against the Republicans, if her preferred choice ended up being outvoted. And I was pointing out what happened the last time she pulled that crap.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[2banon]

102. The John Birch Society's Red Baiting Theme Song..

At least he doesn't pretend to be anything but a right winger. he's quite open about it. right there in his addy.

One would think it would be a wake up call to others, pretending to be "left of center" or "liberal" when they're in complete alignment with that poster.

Remember the John Birch Society?

[beam me up scottie]

105. Yes I do and you're right. Did you see who rec'd this right wing red baiting trash?

No big surprises there, like you said: some folks aren't even pretending anymore.

There was another one earlier who accused Bernie of being a Trotskyite.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

121. Do you see who lies about it being "red baiting"?

Because he's a Naderite?

Yup. Folks like you aren't even pretending any more.

Oh, wait. You are, or else you'd be kicked off this board.

-- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

122. Ack! You got me! I am SO busted!

[ConservativeDemocrat]

124. Look at #12

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023707888

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

127. ...

[Fuddnik]

204. I told you never to call me here!

[choie]

208. Beam me, I love you!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

211. Back atcha, chie! :)

[Kalidurga]

94. You have the word Conservative in your handle...

and you have the audacity to ask anyone else why they are posting on the Democratic Underground. Do ya'll listen to yourselves or do you just auto spout stuff on your keyboards?

[beam me up scottie]

96. Check out his transparency page.

This one came back early and didn't learn a thing.

[Kalidurga]

101. Yikes

Some of those comments....

[beam me up scottie]

103. Yeah I don't think Susan is the cause of his rage, just today's target.

Along with anyone who objects to red baiting apparently.

I think I'm supposed to be intimidated.

[Kalidurga]

107. I know I am supposed to be intimidated...

But, I am more n a little bit "crazy" I have lurched at more n one person who wanted to fight in real life. I just like watching em jump back and listen to them mutter "nah it's not worth it."

[beam me up scottie]

108. Me too!

Comes from growing up with all brothers, I don't right like a girl.

[Kalidurga]

109. I only had one brother.

My sisters were much meaner though. Most fights were with neighborhood boys and my sisters they didn't fight alone. I did on occasion I was the oldest so I didn't drag them into my business.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

123. All the 4 to 3 ones?

Where all the Sandernistas got their panties in a bunch? Or was it the 5 to 2 one where I literally posted a screen-shot joke from Jimmy Fallon's show, and it was called "Over the top" by a bunch of people who think they can shut down the media like they shut anyone who isn't a fan of Sanders here?

*shrug* The petulant authoritarian left is petulant and authoritarian; can't even handle a pointed question without abusing the alert system. News at 11.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Kalidurga]

125. I have seen a whole lot of Hillary supporters that don't get hides.

It really isn't a badge of courage or honor to rack up hides. And you still call yourself a Conservative and you are still lecturing Liberals. So whatevs.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

130. There's a reason Skinner stopped the hide system

And prohibited a bunch of people from being on juries. And it isn't because he's some secret moderate or conservative democrat.
It's because of the outright abuse of the system by people who flat out are not Democrats and seek to shut down basically all opposing viewpoints.

I represent part of the party that the Greens and Naderites on this board would rather not exist, and so gather three hides basically for saying "hello". But that isn't me being "bad". That's just the petulant left being petulant.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Kalidurga]

133. I agree there is abuse.

I even posted that the system isn't working. However, it appears you have earned yours.

[beam me up scottie]

128. Musta been a bunch of commies on those juries.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

134. People who have lost their jury privileges

(hopefully)

For the record, I've never abused the jury system like the Naderites have on this board. I go overboard to be solicitous to people whose opinions are different than mine.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

138. "I go overboard to be solicitous to people whose opinions are different than mine"

*looks at posts in this thread*

[ConservativeDemocrat]

145. I would never vote to hide any of your insults of me

To be blunt, you're not very good at them.

But you didn't answer the question. Are you planning to vote for the Democratic nominee, if it's not Sanders? YES or NO.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[beam me up scottie]

150. Do I like wombats? Why yes I do!

[Goblinmonger]

162. Tautology

You don't get to vote on your own alerts.

[Rob H.]

190. I'm not sure any of them did

Some of them are now up to 10 or more hidden posts, and here they are, still posting away.

[Goblinmonger]

161. It's "often pejorative" because it's RED BAITING

Were you not alive during the Cold War? I was. I know. Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. This is no different than Papa Bush's statement that Dukakis was a "card carrying member" of the ACLU.

Red baiting dog whistles are red baiting dog whistles. You can try and put lipstick on it, but it's still red baiting. And disgusting. And gross. And something I would think would not be present on DU. But, hey, live and learn.

[beam me up scottie]

174. ^^^THAT RIGHT THERE^^^

[Newkularblue]

201. We have a winner!

[eggman67]

177. There's a red under my bed ;) n/t

[beam me up scottie]

180. I LOVE THAT SONG!!!

It's been a few years since I heard it, thank you so much for reminding me!

[Broward]

2. You cite Iraq. Are you supporting Hillary in the primary?

[Human101948]

3. Al Gore won the election...

Blaming Nader is ridiculous.

Blame the assholes on the Supreme Court and you have a case.

[DanTex]

5. No Nader, no W.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. No SCOTUS, no W. Who helped stack that SCOTUS via witness intimidation and lies about women?

That would be David Brock, who smeared Anita Hill and intimidated witnesses in order to help place conservative misogynist Clarence Thomas on the Court. Thomas then voted for Bush in Bush v Gore, handing the Presidency to Georgie Boy.

Know your history, win more arguments.

[DanTex]

13. No Nader no W. Do you disagree? Please answer.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Yep, he was not the factor, he was a factor but you have this bone you want to gnaw in defense of

this red baiting trash and you do not know the facts about that election so it's pointless talking to you about it. SCOTUS did it. Harris and Bush. Lack of GOTV among Democrats. Too many conservative Democrats like yourself who voted for Bush, yes they did. Lots of factors.

But the thing is, this bullshit of people who support a candidate who actually voted for the Iraq War trying to blame a private citizen for that war is utterly laughable and also disgusting.

You should be ashamed, the OP should be banned from DU.

[DanTex]

30. So you agree that no Nader, no Bush? That's what I'm reading.

I'm glad to hear we have something in common.

It's unfortunate that you think that the horrific damage W did is "this bone that I want to gnaw", but I can only assume that comes from a position of privilege, in that none of what W did actually affected you or anyone you know personally.

Hopefully you won't make the same mistake again, and you'll join me in soundly rejecting the Bernie or Busters that are doing their best to repeat Nader's accomplishment and throwing yet another election to the GOP.

[Gothmog]

77. Nader is responsible for W's election

[AzDar]

35. ...

[Lordquinton]

160. Nope

You are wrong.

[Armstead]

4. So now she's responsible for 9-11

That's rich.

A smiley I vowed never to use...But this one merits it:

[DanTex]

8. Not personally responsible. Just backing a movement that helped bring it and Iraq about.

Do you disagree?

[Armstead]

14. I disagree

If Gore had campaigned better and if the Clinton Democratic Party had not alienated so many progressives, the margin would have been large enough that Nader would not have been a factor at all.

And I'd be careful about mentioning responsibility for Iraq.

[DanTex]

17. If Nader hadn't run, none of it would have happened. Period.

[Armstead]

18. Yes it would. Period

Florida would have still been contested and the SC would have sided with the Bushes.

[DanTex]

23. Then you're delusional. The vote totals are crystal clear. Nader doesn't run, Gore wins by

enough that SC can't throw it the other way. Not even close.

[cannabis_flower]

39. And if Harris and Jeb had not conspired

to suppress the AA vote by throwing "felons" off the rolls and other dirty tricks Gore would have won Florida and Nader wouldn't have mattered. People think it was all the hanging chads and that is BS. Read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast. Ohio was also stolen from Gore by voter suppression but that doesn't get a lot of mention.

[DanTex]

42. True. Also, it Nader hadn't run, there would be no W.

I don't respect Harris and Jeb any more than I respect Nader.

[Omaha Steve]

72. IF Gore had recounted ALL of Florida he would have won

Put the blame on him.

OS

[DanTex]

73. There's blame to go around. But: no Nader, no W.

[SMC22307]

157. Blame the Florida Democrats who voted for Bush.

BUSH, not Nader. I forget the exact figure -- 280,000 or so? They would have crushed Nader's approx. 97,000 votes.

On edit: Per a post below, looks as if the number is 308,000. Wag your finger at them.

[Buzz cook]

85. The supreme court stopped the count

So how was Gore able to count all of Florida.

[Omaha Steve]

89. Read up

Gore's own comment is IF he had started a recount of the entire state from the beginning he would have won. Not counting all the votes allowed the right wingers to muck it up.

[Buzz cook]

98. I was alive at the time.

The Florida supreme court ordered a hand recount.

[Omaha Steve]

215. Gore only asked for the four most Democratic counties be recounted from day 1

He should have counted the entire state!

[hrmbaja]

60. I also recommend that book by Vincent Bugliosi

A great book, about the corruption of the Bush v Gore and who was behind it.

Can't remember the name of the title.. on phone, sorry

ON EDIT: "Betrayal of America"

[Bluenorthwest]

6. Fellow travelers? How very Tail Gunner Joe of you. Full tilt right wing liberal baiting.

This sort of horrific blacklist like activity should be an instant ban from DU. The verbiage and the tactic makes me sick, and DU Clinton supporters should have the decency to object but I'm sure that they won't.

Fucking McCarthyist.

[DanTex]

10. Nader most definitely tipped the scales in favor of Bush. Do you deny that?

[Bluenorthwest]

15. I think the SCOTUS handed Bush the election, I think the DNC left votes on the table, far too

many eligible voters did not vote and that would have won it for Al and that's the Party's job. I think more right wing Democrats voted for GW Bush than all votes Nader got in Florida. Democrats who voted for Bush. On DU today, the conservative Democrats are bashing at Bernie back then they were voting for Bush. Same old shit.

[DanTex]

20. No, no, no. You didn't answer. If not for Nader, W would never have become president, agreed?

[Bluenorthwest]

27. I do not agree with you, you are a simplistic propagandist and need to stop the bully act right now.

Just fucking cut it out. You have no right to badger me or anyone else here. You are a person who has trash talked both of our candidates intensely at various times depending on what you wanted to gnaw at. I am a life long Democrat and you can kiss my ass, you shat all over Hillary in 08, now all over Bernie in 2016. I'm a Democrat as are they. You shit on them for sport. You disrespect the process, your fellow voters, the candidates, the Party and the nation this is all in service to. You have less than no standing with me, I see your sort of coyote joker politics as a big part of the problem. That's not how one governs a country, Danny. Wise up.

[DanTex]

36. Personal insults aside, there's an actual question here.

Without Nader, W would never have been inaugurated. The factual evidence behind this claim is overwhelming. Without his votes, the majority of which came from Ds, Florida would not have been close enough for the GOP to steal.

Now, as I've mentioned, for a person with your level of privilege, the damage W has done probably didn't register in any life-altering way, if at all. Maybe you even got a tax break. But, the reality is, he did a lot of bad things, and if Trump gets elected, he will too. For some reason, you are sticking up for Bernie or Busters, who are doing the best to ensure that he wins.

I certainly hope you're not defending the pro-Trump movement simply because I have somehow rubbed you the wrong way.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. You have been answered. You are defending Brownshirt tactics in this thread, expect to be met

with hostility. You have no standing with me at all. I told you why. Learn to live with it, you do not get to hound and bully people who do not agree with. Grow up. Wise up.

[DanTex]

53. No, you're dodging. You're playing high and mighty but won't answer a simple question.

You have no moral standing here, sorry. You're defending the same stupidity that delivered us W in 2000. And you don't even have the courage to answer a straight-up question.

And we both know why. Because your position is morally indefensible. You know you're wrong and so do I.

[Uponthegears]

186. Smearing the left, ignoring the right

You want to point to the less than 600 vote margin in Florida in 2000 and to the tens of thousands of liberals who voted their conscience by voting for Nader and cast Gore's defeat onto their shoulders. Viewed in its most simplistic light (i.e., ignoring how the DLC(now, Third Way)-dominated Democratic party drove liberals away from Gore by arrogantly ignoring their concerns), that is a fair point. (Btw, I was not among them. I lived in Florida at the time and voted for Gore).

HOWEVER, what you WON'T discuss is how the DNC/DLC (now Third Way) abandoned THOUSANDS of victims of one of the most racist deprivations of the right to vote of the last half of the 20th Century, the blanket purge of convicted felons, when they could have EASILY stopped it.

The purge was INFINITELY predictable and therefore preventable. The law was passed years before the election. Centrist Democrats KNEW that Florida's "convicted felons can't vote" laws could constitutionally be applied ONLY to felons whose rights had not been restored. They KNEW that, at the time, many states (including Texas) automatically restored rights upon release. They KNEW that THOUSANDS of Florida residents with felony convictions came from those states. They KNEW that they were disproportionately PoC. They KNEW that the DTS methodology was erasing these LEGAL voters. It could have been stopped IF the CENTRIST DEMOCRATS cared.

Mainstream "voter protection" Centri-crats, however, just didn't care because they didn't want their suburban center-right base to be thinking "Willie Horton" just like they don't want them to be thinking "Michael Brown" now (which is why Hillary will stand with a grieving mother BUT WON'T SAY A WORD about how the Justice Department wouldn't lift a finger to prosecute the MURDERER of HER SON or the accessories after the fact who covered it up).

Sure, if Nader voters had voted against their convictions, Gore would have won, BUT if the DLC (now Third Way) wasn't so worried about being called "soft on crime liberals," Gore would have still won AND democracy would have been served. All the Pontius Pilate hand-washing won't take that stain off of the (now) Hillary wing of the party.

Democrats voting their conscience over their party affiliation. Democrats refusing to stand up for the victims of racism. EITHER can be blamed for Gore's defeat because, but for EITHER, Gore would have won AND whether he won by 4000 or 70,000 votes doesn't matter.

SO TELL US . . . DanTex, who should we be criticizing?

[DanTex]

188. "if Nader voters had voted against their convictions, Gore would have won."

That's all you had to say. Those voters' "convictions" handed us W and everything else that followed. Any convictions that lead people to help getting Republicans elected are repugnant.

[Uponthegears]

192. No, all I needed to say was

EVEN IF every Nader voter (and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM) had still voted based upon who they believed was the best candidate . . .

Al Gore would have won the election IF the SAME PEOPLE who are now running the show at Camp Weathervane hadn't cared more about pandering to the anti-black Willie Horton paranoia of white folks living in the suburbs than about standing up for people of color who had been the victims of not just a RACIST criminal justice system, but a RACIST voter purge.

And, just in case you didn't know it . . . PANDERING TO RACIST PARANOIA is repugnant BOTH because facilitating racial discrimination is repugnant in and of itself AND because that pandering caused one of the most destructive Republicans in history to get elected.

[DanTex]

193. Gore was trying to win, and surely he made some mistakes.

But Nader and his followers weren't making a "mistake." They directly helped W get elected.

[Uponthegears]

194. It wasn't a mistake

It was a CHOICE about who mattered and who didn't.

I can't believe you are so determined to throw Gore's loss 100% on "liberals" that you won't attribute ANY responsibility to CONSERVATIVE/CENTRIST/"I need to fly back to Arkansas to personally oversee the torture and execution of a brain damaged black man" wing of the Democratic Party. Especially when THEIR DECISION was just as responsible for Gore's loss as the decision of folks to vote for Nader.

I will gladly say that (even though the arrogant "f you" we won attitude of the DNC/DLC toward liberals contributed to it -- an attitude we see coming from the Hillary Camp now) ANYONE who voted for Nader in 2000 in light of the polling that was coming out of Florida needs to have the next 8 years firmly emblazoned in their minds. I said it in 2000 too. Their integrity came with a heavy price.

BUT the Establishment Democrats need to have that same image emblazoned on THEIR minds as well. Their LACK of integrity came with a heavy price.

[Ghost Dog]

64. You are claiming that supporting Mr. Sanders for the Democratic Party nomination

equates to supporting Mr. Trump, if nominated as the Republican Party candidate, in the General election.

How so? Can you explain your logic please, or is your claim illogical?

[DanTex]

69. Not at all. "Bernie or Bust" equates to supporting Trump. Which is obvious.

There are plenty of arguments for supporting either Democratic candidate. There are zero arguments for not voting D in the General Election.

[Ghost Dog]

75. Please re-read my question, try to understand it, and answer it.

Thanks.

[DanTex]

79. I did. The answer was "not at all". Not sure why you're ignoring what I wrote.

[Ghost Dog]

97. If I understand you, you repeat that support for Mr. Sanders

in the primaries equals support for Mr. Trump in the GE. I asked you to explain your logic, how you arrive at your perception of said equivalence. Just saying "not at all" and "it's obvious", unfortunately, provide no logical explanation at all.

[DanTex]

99. Not sure how you get that from "not at all"? Can I make it clearer?

[Ghost Dog]

104. Why not at least make an attempt at clarity? n/t

[Katashi_itto]

117. Oh. Its DT. Whatever.

[kristopher]

52. +1000

[frylock]

118. fuckin-a!

[FlatBaroque]

184. BRAVO!

I have that thing on ignore because you cannot punch bullies in the face on the internet. But you came as close as possible.

[TheBlackAdder]

40. Just don't tell that to the 1/4 Million Florida Democrats who voted for Bush!

[DanTex]

45. Sure, I'll tell them. Huh?

[TheBlackAdder]

48. Gotta love people who use Wikipedia as a source, and partial NYT analysis. That gets a C+

[Bluenorthwest]

49. Those would be conservative Democrats like the OP.

More votes than Nader got.......it's the Math. Ask Nate.

[Gothmog]

57. Nader gave Bush the election

This is from the article that I posted on this thread http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

All polling studies that were done, for both the 2000 and the 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, indicated that Nader drained at least 2 to 5 times as many voters from the Democratic candidate as he did from the Republican Bush. (This isn't even considering throw-away Nader voters who would have stayed home and not voted if Nader had not been in the race; they didn't count in these calculations at all.) Nader's 97,488 Florida votes contained vastly more than enough to have overcome the official Jeb Bush / Katherine Harris / count, of a 537-vote Florida "victory" for G.W. Bush. In their 24 April 2006 detailed statistical analysis of the 2000 Florida vote, "Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?" (available on the internet), Michael C. Herron of Dartmouth and Jeffrey B. Lewis of UCLA stated flatly, "We find that ... Nader was a spoiler for Gore." David Paul Kuhn, CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer, headlined on 27 July 2004, "Nader to Crash Dems Party?" and he wrote: "In 2000, Voter News Service exit polling showed that 47 percent of Nader's Florida supporters would have voted for Gore, and 21 percent for Mr. Bush, easily covering the margin of Gore's loss." Nationwide, Harvard's Barry C. Burden, in his 2001 paper at the American Political Science Association, "Did Ralph Nader Elect George W. Bush?" (also on the internet) presented "Table 3: Self-Reported Effects of Removing Minor Party Candidates," showing that in the VNS exit polls, 47.7% of Nader's voters said they would have voted instead for Gore, 21.9% said they would have voted instead for Bush, and 30.5% said they wouldn't have voted in the Presidential race, if Nader were had not been on the ballot. (This same table also showed that the far tinier nationwide vote for Patrick Buchanan would have split almost evenly between Bush and Gore if Buchanan hadn't been in the race: Buchanan was not a decisive factor in the outcome.) The Florida sub-sample of Nader voters was actually too small to draw such precise figures, but Herron and Lewis concluded that approximately 60% of Florida's Nader voters would have been Gore voters if the 2000 race hadn't included Nader. Clearly, Ralph Nader drew far more votes from Gore than he did from Bush, and on this account alone was an enormous Republican asset in 2000.

In this type of polling is considered to be facts and show that Nader cost Gore the 2000 election

[beam me up scottie]

19. We should be careful, he said "fellow travellerS". They might be making lists again.

This is how it started last time.

[Gothmog]

55. Nader is directly responsible for the loss of Section 5 of the VRA

The SCOTUS could not even rule in this case if Nader had not screwed Gore. Here are some facts on this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called "Florida and New Hampshire" simply "the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket," when Cook was writing about "The Next Nader Effect," in The New York Times on 9 March 2004. Cook said, "Mr. Nader, running as the Green Party nominee, cost Al Gore two states, Florida and New Hampshire, either of which would have given the vice president [Gore] a victory in 2000. In Florida, which George W. Bush carried by 537 votes, Mr. Nader received nearly 100,000 votes [nearly 200 times the size of Bush's Florida 'win']. In New Hampshire, which Mr. Bush won by 7,211 votes, Mr. Nader pulled in more than 22,000 [three times the size of Bush's 'win' in that state]." If either of those two states had gone instead to Gore, then Bush would have lost the 2000 election; we would never have had a U.S. President George W. Bush, and so Nader managed to turn not just one but two key toss-up states for candidate Bush, and to become the indispensable person making G.W. Bush the President of the United States -- even more indispensable, and more important to Bush's "electoral success," than were such huge Bush financial contributors as Enron Corporation's chief Ken Lay.

All polling studies that were done, for both the 2000 and the 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, indicated that Nader drained at least 2 to 5 times as many voters from the Democratic candidate as he did from the Republican Bush. (This isn't even considering throw-away Nader voters who would have stayed home and not voted if Nader had not been in the race; they didn't count in these calculations at all.) Nader's 97,488 Florida votes contained vastly more than enough to have overcome the official Jeb Bush / Katherine Harris / count, of a 537-vote Florida "victory" for G.W. Bush. In their 24 April 2006 detailed statistical analysis of the 2000 Florida vote, "Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?" (available on the internet), Michael C. Herron of Dartmouth and Jeffrey B. Lewis of UCLA stated flatly, "We find that ... Nader was a spoiler for Gore." David Paul Kuhn, CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer, headlined on 27 July 2004, "Nader to Crash Dems Party?" and he wrote: "In 2000, Voter News Service exit polling showed that 47 percent of Nader's Florida supporters would have voted for Gore, and 21 percent for Mr. Bush, easily covering the margin of Gore's loss." Nationwide, Harvard's Barry C. Burden, in his 2001 paper at the American Political Science Association, "Did Ralph Nader Elect George W. Bush?" (also on the internet) presented "Table 3: Self-Reported Effects of Removing Minor Party Candidates," showing that in the VNS exit polls, 47.7% of Nader's voters said they would have voted instead for Gore, 21.9% said they would have voted instead for Bush, and 30.5% said they wouldn't have voted in the Presidential race, if Nader were had not been on the ballot. (This same table also showed that the far tinier nationwide vote for Patrick Buchanan would have split almost evenly between Bush and Gore if Buchanan hadn't been in the race: Buchanan was not a decisive factor in the outcome.) The Florida sub-sample of Nader voters was actually too small to draw such precise figures, but Herron and Lewis concluded that approximately 60% of Florida's Nader voters would have been Gore voters if the 2000 race hadn't included Nader. Clearly, Ralph Nader drew far more votes from Gore than he did from Bush, and on this account alone was an enormous Republican asset in 2000.

The SCOTUS would never had a chance if Nader had not been stupid

[oasis]

170. +100,000,000

[Gothmog]

183. I am living in a state suffering from the gutting of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act

The Texas voter id law is horrible

[Fuddnik]

206. Or, if the current Chair of the Florida Democratic Party wasn't helping purge Democrats from the rol

She was an employee and lobbyist for ChoicePoint, which generated the faulty fraudulent purge lists for the 2000 election in Florida. 80,000 likely Democratic voters disappeared.

And the icing on the cake? Her husband was Lead Counsel in Bush v Gore. On the Bush side.

I guess you could characterize her as a "conservative democrat".

[fun n serious]

146. Why?

Lately Tweets have been posted as facts By Sanders supporters.. here on GDP

[TheSarcastinator]

7. "fellow traveler" is red baiting garbage: you should be ashamed

What disgusting bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellow_traveller

"Fellow traveller" is a term, often pejorative, for a person who sympathizes with the beliefs of an organization or cooperates in its activities without maintaining formal membership in that particular group. The term was first used in the early Soviet Union to characterize writers and artists sympathetic to the goals of the Russian Revolution who declined to join the Communist Party. The English-language phrase came into vogue in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s as a pejorative term for a sympathizer of Communism who was nonetheless not an official or "card-carrying member" of a Communist party. 'Fellow travellers' were often accused of lending their names and prestige to Communist front organizations. In other languages the comparable terms are compagnon de route, sympathisant or progressistes in French; Weggenosse or (more generally) Sympathisant in German; and compagno di viaggio in Italian.[1]

[Katashi_itto]

116. Wow!

[livetohike]

9. She's good at picking winners isn't she?

[TheSarcastinator]

21. you mean like David Brock?

Yeah, there's a winner.

[livetohike]

26. No, I mean exactly what I said. Didn't she back Edwards in 2008? N/t

[TheSarcastinator]

31. so did a LOT of Dems...

...yeah, that one was ugly. Sigh.

[NurseJackie]

197. And Edwards voted for the IWR, didn't he?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. "Fellow travelers"?

Of course you know that "fellow traveler" is a pejorative term that usually refers to Communist sympathizers? Enough of the red-baiting, please; it's getting old.

I don't happen to agree with Sarandon on this point, but she's as entitled to her opinion as anyone else - although her opinion doesn't get any extra weight because she's a celebrity. Feel free to ignore her if you want, but ease up on the invective. You aren't winning converts using terms like "fellow traveler" and "petulant left."

[Armstead]

16. Might as well use Fifth Columnist

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. Yeah, the fifties rears its ugly head again.

I thought this shit had died with Joe McCarthy.

[beam me up scottie]

33. I'm waiting for them to start calling us Nazis.

I can't tell some HC supporters apart from Trump supporters anymore.

[whatchamacallit]

24. Hey look, a conservative calling liberals "the petulant left"

Sure wanna be on that team!

[Broward]

50. Yep, and a lot of conservatives supported the Iraq War.

Perhaps, the OP was one.

[Buns_of_Fire]

28. "Fellow travellers" -- my, what a blast from the past THAT phrase is!

Lemme try one: "I have in my hand a list of six million certified known supporters of a known socialist who plans to take over the highest office in the United States and install red commie pinko sympathizers into positions of authority to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids!"

Hey, this is FUN!

[Autumn]

29. Did Hillary bury anyone after she trusted Bush enough to vote for his war?

When millions of us knew Iraq had nothing whatsothefuckever to do with 9/11. Hillary voted for that to save her fucking seat in NY on her perpetual quest to be the first woman in the White House. Susan Sarandon and millions of her fellow anti war travelers showed more wisdom than your candidate ever did.
Nice red baiting though, the 50s called they want their phrase back.

Oh yeah got three fucking words for you. Corrupt supreme court.

[reformist2]

32. Good for Susan! I like people who do what they want to, even if it's unpopular.

[Nedsdag]

151. Isn't that what democracy is all about? n/t

[eggman67]

176. Of course not

It's about voting for the warmongering antithesis of all your principles because they're wearing your team's jersey. Yay team.

[PonyUp]

34. The Hillbugs are coming out of the woodwork in desperation. Glad I have Ignore spray. nt

[riderinthestorm]

37. McCarthy who coined "fellow travelers" particularly hunted Jews

Your OP is flirting with anti-Semitism and dog whistles.

Shameful.

[beam me up scottie]

44. Obvious posters are obvious, they're coming out of the woodwork now.

[kristopher]

62. The scant publicly released polling in NY isn't looking good for HRC

There is an (odd IMO) dearth if polling in NY, but the trend is clear - Bernie is trending up and H is trending down.

I think their campaign is in full fledged kitchen-sink mode with worse to come.

Despicable.

[Buns_of_Fire]

111. 3 1/2 more months until the convention. 3 1/2 LONG months.

There are wounds being inflicted now that are going to take longer than that to heal, if ever. Sad to see.

[Mnpaul]

200. and then they go Rovian

and accuse Sanders of using McCarthyite attacks

[Viva_La_Revolution]

38. that was yesterday

Today we're discussing the future. Try to keep up

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Eeek!! Nader!! Save the children!!!

[djean111]

43. Damn! Sarandon really hit a nerve! Awesome!

Fellow travelers - oh, my - that's really really pathetic.

Bwahahaha! I just had a picture in my mind of a DU Hillary supporter waving around a list of Bernie's supporters - "In my virtual hand I have a list!!!!!!!!" I won't ask about the decency thing.

[redstateblues]

46. Nader Denialism Lives!!

I love it when all the Naderites come out trying to justify helping Bush/Cheney get the Presidency. "not a dime's worth of difference" Really? Ya Think?

[TM99]

112. How Florida Democrats torpedoed Gore

Start with two constituent groups that Democratic nominees usually win in the Sunshine State:

1) Seniors. By a 51-47 percent margin, Gore lost the over-65 vote in Florida. Bush got 67,000 more senior votes than Gore did, even after all the Democratic scare talk about vanishing Social Security benefits. Had Gore simply broken even with this constituency, he would have won.

2) White Women. This group typically votes Democratic in Florida, or splits evenly. Gore lost them to Bush by 53-44 percent. Had he gotten 50 percent of these votes, he’d have added 65,000 votes to his total — plenty enough to have put the state in his column election night.

Now it gets really ugly for the Gore campaign, for there are two other Florida constituencies that cost them more votes than Nader did. First, Democrats. Yes, Democrats! Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush. Hello. If Gore had taken even 1 percent of these Democrats from Bush, Nader’s votes wouldn’t have mattered. Second, liberals. Sheesh. Gore lost 191,000 self-described liberals to Bush, compared to less than 34,000 who voted for Nader.

Why would Democrats and liberals vote for (gag) Bush? Some Democrats may have been so appalled by Clinton’s personal behavior and Gore’s fundraising escapades that they flipped all the way to Bush, while others found no defining economic difference between Gore and Bush, so they voted on the basis of George W.’s (false) claim to be the integrity candidate. Some liberals noted that Bush actually has proposed less of an increase in the Pentagon’s already-bloated budget than Gore did, and some were so angered by the vice president’s atrocious record of selling out working families, environmentalists and farmers that they wanted to give him the double-whammy of taking a vote from him and giving it to Bush. In any event, Gore failed to close the deal with these voters — a fact that has nothing to do with Nader.

http://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/

[politicaljunkie41910]

51. Thanks for posting this. It's nice to know who we're dealing with when that person

calls into question Hillary's honesty and trustworthiness. I've never cared for Sarandon's injecting herself into the political process.

[djean111]

58. Gee, guess the little woman should stay home and make movies, eh?

And leave the political process thing to scumbags like David Brock. I consider anyone who has anything to with Brock as, well, tainted.

[Gothmog]

54. Tweedledum and Tweedledee-Sanders and Nader love the same phrase

Sanders and the traitor Nader share a love of stating that there is no difference between the Democratic and Republican parties and have even used the same sad terminology. Nader used this terminology first http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jun/30/ralph-nader/nader-almost-said-gore-bush-but-not-quite/

Again and again throughout the campaign, Nader implied that he thought Bush and Gore equally objectionable. "It doesn't matter who is in the White House, Gore or Bush, for the vast majority of government departments and agencies," Nader said in a news conference in September 2000.

"The only difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door," he told supporters in California a month later.

"It's a Tweedle Dee, Tweedle Dum vote," Nader said in Philadelphia four days before the election, repeating a favorite refrain of his. "Both parties are selling our government to big business paymasters. ...That's a pretty serious similarity."

Nader also failed to challenge Sam Donaldson on ABC's This Week when Donaldson said, "You don't think it matters. You've said it doesn't matter to you who is the president of the United States, Bush or Gore."

Nader replied, "Because it's the permanent corporate government that's running the show here ... you can see they're morphing more and more on more and more issues into one corporate party."

It is pretty clear now that there were major differences between Bush and Gore. Just look at Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act.

Sanders also used the same terminology of stating that there are no differences between the Democratic Party and the Republican party when he ran as a spoiler for governor. http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/04/when-bernie-sanders-ran-against-vermont/kNP6xUupbQ3Qbg9UUelvVM/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed

Hillary Clinton is not the first progressive Democratic woman to be challenged by Bernie Sanders. He ran against me in 1986 when I was running for my second term as governor of Vermont. At that time he had little affinity for the Democratic Party. When advised that his third-party candidacy might result in a Republican victory, he saw no difference between Democrats and Republicans, saying: “It is absolutely fair to say you are dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledee.”

Sanders is going to have a very hard time convincing super delegates to support him based on his belief that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are just the same.

[Raster]

56. What a load of shit!

Bullshit!!! What about the tens and tens and tens of thousands of lawful, legal presumed Democrat voters removed from the Florida voter roles by Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris that specifically targeted Democratic-leaning minority precincts long before the first ballot for ANYONE was ever cast. You don't think they had anything to do with the Florida electoral debacle?

What about Florida Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, Co-Chairperson for the Committee to Elect Bush*/Cheney* in Florida, running the statewide campaign to elect Bush* from her Secretary of State Tallahassee office, and time-and-time again ruling every electoral nuance in Cheney*/Bush* favor... You don't think she had anything to do with the Florida 2000 election results?

What about the outright voter intimidation in Democratic Black and Hispanic precincts on election day by Florida State Police, encouraging minorities to "move along" without casting their ballots... You don't think they had anything to do with the Florida electoral results?

What about the notorious butterfly ballot - conceived by a Democrat-for-a-day County Clerk that allowed for over 3000 votes for rabid anti-semite Pat Buchanan in a predominately, elderly JEWISH precinct. Even Buchanan admitted there was most likely a mistake, and he did not believe he received those votes in that precinct. You don't think that had anything to do with the Florida 2000 election results?

What about the notorious black box voting machines - manufactured by two staunchly republican-owned interests - that were designed to be non-paper trail verifiable, whose "secret operating code" was ALWAYS unavailable for neutral third-party inspection, AND that were actually witnessed by impartial observers over and over again switching votes from Albert Gore to George fucking Bush*... You don't think that had anything to do with the Florida 2000 election results?

And what do you think about the usually accurate as hell Exit Polls that showed Albert Gore handily beating George Bush*? You don't think there was any problem there?

And finally, what about a brutally partisan, republican-majority SCOTUS that clearly had no authority to halt a legitimate Florida recount, and that basically stated in their "shall not set precedent" miscarriage of a majority ruling that - and I paraphrase - If the recount showed that Bush*/Cheney* did not win, it would be hard for them to govern. You really don't think that had anything to do with putting Cheney*/Bush* in the White House? All Nader, huh?

So seriously, you want to throw Florida 2000 at the feet of Ralph Nader and Susan Sarandon?

Every time you or anyone else repeat the patently false and utterly dishonest bullshit meme that Florida 2000 was Nader's fault, you basically do the evil scumbag's work for them.

Ralph Nader may be guilty of many things, but putting George W. Bush* in the White House IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

[Gothmog]

65. Then why did Karl Rove fund Nader?

Rove actually funded Nader's campaign http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.

Furthermore, it seems that during the closing days of the 2000 political contest, Ralph Nader was choosing to campaign not in states where polls showed that he had a chance to win (of which states there were none), but instead in states where Gore and Bush were virtually tied and Nader’s constant appeals to “the left” would be the likeliest to throw those states into Bush’s column. One political columnist noted this fact: On 26 October 2000, Eric Alterman posted online for the Nation, “Not One Vote!” in which he observed with trepidation, that during the crucial final days of the campaign, “Nader has been campaigning aggressively in Florida [get that - in Florida!], Minnesota, Michigan, Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin. If Gore loses even a few of those states, then Hello, President Bush.” This was prophetic - but also knowable in advance. Nader wasn’t stupid; his voters were, but he certainly was not.

Nader was a tool of Rove and did Rove's bidding

[dr60omg]

74. Thank you! Let me add something else

Since Bill Clinton never would have been elected using this logic surrounding Nader
Since Ross Perot had a larger percentage of voters than Nader did ....

[Art_from_Ark]

84. And don't forget the Republican-dominated Florida state legislature

vowed to give the state's electoral votes to Bu$h, regardless of who won the popular vote.

[Buzz cook]

91. A threat yes

But the Florida supreme court ruled that the laws of Florida be followed and there be a full hand count of all the votes. That would have happened before the Florida legislature convened to give the votes to Bush.

There were, at the time, enough democrats in the Florida legislature to keep the republicans from acting before the counted votes were ratified.

But of course the US supreme court stopped all that before it got that far.

[Impedimentus]

59. People who base their voting preferences based on the opinions of celebrities are ...

idiots. People who get upset over what celebrities do and say fall into the same category, IMO.

Neither Susan Sarandon, nor Donald Trump, nor the Kardashians, nor any other celebrity has any influence on my life, let alone my thinking. It's sad that it does on yours.

FEEL THE BERN - 2016

[Gothmog]

61. Nader remains a political narcissist

I follow a number of legal blogs including Prof. Hasen's Election law blog. Prof. Hasen discussed Nader's last piece of drivel and cited some accurate comments about Nader http://electionlawblog.org/?p=81243

Update: A reader writes:

It is indeed breathtaking – but not at all surprising – to read Nader’s comments today.
As the New York Times editorial board noted in 2000, Nader is a “political narcissist” whose ego has “run amuck.”Nader’s 2000 assertion that the two candidates were “twiddle-dum-twiddle-dee” has of course been refuted by Al Gore’s (a) opposition to the Iraq war, (b) his opposition to the Bush tax cuts, and (c) his choices for the Supreme Court. Had Nader worked as hard to defeat Bush as he did to defeat Gore, there would have been no Citizens United, no war in Iraq, and no massive tax cuts for the richest.

Unfortunately, Nader was primarily interested in defeating Gore by campaigning in Florida and Pennsylvania in the final days of the campaign – rather than securing the most votes for the Green Party in Texas, or California or New York.

Nader certainly will go down in history as one of the most destructive forces of progressivism in US politics in the last 100 years.

Nader's lawyer got huffy and responded to this post. I am not going to link the Nader's attorney rather sad comments but suffice to say that Nader is still a political narcissist who is proud that we now have Citizens United, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, the Iraq war and the bush tax cuts. Nader is a sad and sick person who is evidently proud that he cause Citizens United, the Iraq War and the bush tax cuts.

[MrWendel]

63. Never got an answer...

the last time either. But if she was so against Clinton's support of the Iraq war, why did she stump for John Edwards who was completely for it?

[m-lekktor]

68. Yet another reason to love her!! nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

70. If that's all you think a person needs to know about her, I'm glad I'm not as limited as that.

[Gwhittey]

71. I know right I wish Susan Shardon would drop out of the DNC primary race

I don't think she has one vote yet in primary. She really should suspend her campaign.

[Blue_In_AK]

76. Hey, guess what?

I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, too, with no regrets. I have the luxury in Alaska of voting my conscience, and I did.

[Hiraeth]

78. welcome to ignore.

and congrats on stupidest post of the day.

[Art_from_Ark]

90. Winning the Stupidest Post of the Day Award must be a badge of honor,

since so many recent OPs seem to be vying for it.

[beam me up scottie]

93. Yeah the competition is getting steep.

This one's a tie with the Trotsky op earlier.

[Art_from_Ark]

113. That one about Bernie's "mystery donor" is also in the competition

I wonder if they get bonus points for hidden OPs?

[beam me up scottie]

141. I was afraid that would happen.

That poster also said Bernie stole her credit card info.

[Art_from_Ark]

140. Yet another candidate for Stupid Post of the Day

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511620600

[beam me up scottie]

142. That guy is trying to get ahead of the memes.

He needs to use the sarcasm thingy though, that kind of op can be dangerous.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. Al Gore was a good and decent man who deserved so much better.

[MBS]

187. " " " "

He also was way ahead of the curve on environmental issues, and anyone criticizing him on that front was disingenuous or unhinged from reality.

[nichomachus]

82. "Fellow travelers?" More red-baiting from the Hillary brigade. Nt

[Trust Buster]

83. Hillary voted for the Iraq resolution and the far Left can't stop whining about it.

Sarandon voted for Nader thus electing Bush and Cheney and she's the far Left's hero. The nicest thing I can say about that is hypocrisy.

[TSIAS]

92. Her voting for Nader had no impact

Presumably she votes in CA or NY, both of which went to Gore.

If you want to argue her campaigning for Nader caused harm, do so. But the electoral college renders her vote moot.

[Trust Buster]

100. It was her intent. Her logic gave us Bush, Cheney and Iraq. Stop the hypocrisy.

[The Midway Rebel]

86. Yup. That's the problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Wow, you must be very frightened of this particular hollywood actress.

She's one person, and she's probably not hiding under your bed or anything. BOO!

[Warren Stupidity]

166. She is sort of intimidating.

Beautiful, intelligent, that sort of thing makes some men shiver and shake.

[cherokeeprogressive]

106. If that ain't some blinder wearin', desperate smellin' bullshit I ain't never seen any.

What's up with the quotes? I've been unable to find anything Susan Sarandon said to that effect using teh Google. Can you help me out a little and point me to what she said to that effect?

Before you do though? Go ahead and take your "petulant left" crap, put some AA batteries in it, and

[Katashi_itto]

110. All anyone needs to know is look at the posters name

[polly7]

114. She's a fantastic, brave and very intelligent woman .... and your accusations are SICK. nt.

[Katashi_itto]

115. Enjoy your stay

[ConservativeDemocrat]

126. I've been here since basically the beginning of the DU

But sure. Right back at you.

Take care.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Katashi_itto]

163. I can see why you keep your posts few and far between then

[frylock]

119. Fascists crack me up.

I think you'd feel right at home at a Trump rally.

[Vote2016]

120. I stand with Susan and NOT Hillary

[Uponthegears]

129. Actually it was as

much the fault of the DLC.

Are you suggesting that it was Nader's Florida voters who gave us Bush the Lesser? If it was, you might consider whether it was Nader's voters that cost us Florida, OR whether it was the craven cowardice of the DLC who sat silent while that sniveling racist Jeb Bush disenfranchised tens of thousands of disproportionately PoC by the blanket removal of convicted felons from the voter rolls because the DLC was worried about alienating suburban middle-right independents?

[WhiteTara]

131. I liked her as an actress but I'm

disappointed in her as a human with her support of Nadir.

[hobbit709]

132. "Fellow Travelers" Did we go back to the future in 1954?

[morningfog]

136. For fucks sake. Respectfully, fuck off. Nader did not cause 9/11.

That is grade A trolling bull shit.

Seriously bottom of the barrel, you should be banned troll shit.

Jury: do what you must. But fuck this offensive shit.

[basselope]

137. You do realize Gore won the election.

Nader didn't have any actual impact.

[Vote2016]

144. Gore lost each Nader vote. Like Gore, Hillary thinks she owns the liberal vote by being less right

wing than Trump or Cruz.

She's wrong.

I'm a yellow dog Democrat, but half the liberals do not identify as Democrats and will vote for Jill Stein is we nominate a neocon.

[jmg257]

147. OK - I pledge not to vote for her. Nt

[geek tragedy]

148. She supported IWR co-sponsor and hedge fund employee

John Edwards in 2008.

[enid602]

152. sarandon

She does have a flair for picking winners.

[Zira]

153. Looks like she is consistently on the right side of history.

It would have saved over 100k Iraqis alone if her candidate won.

You are attacking a liberal peace activist WHY?

[YOHABLO]

159. She doesn't have to say anything. She's using her celebrity to speak out. So what?

What have you done C.D. Proud Member of the "Reality Based Community" ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

164. Joe McCarthy called

he would like his red baiting and have you ever been... back.

[Warren Stupidity]

165. !954 called: have you taken our fellow travellers?

[Orsino]

185. Oo! Oo! Do Jane Fonda next! n/t

[LWolf]

189. This doesn't bother me in the least.

I've always known that Gore's loss in 2000 was not because of Nader, but because of election fraud.

I've always considered the attacks on Nader voters and supporters to be:

1. Dishonest
2. Denial
3. Slimy

I VOTED FOR GORE IN 2000.

And, at one time, I would have considered your username to be an oxymoron. Not any more, unfortunately, but hopefully we're going to be changing that.

Sarandon? I support her right to support, and speak out in support of, whomever she wishes. That's democratic. It's too bad the party that calls itself by that label doesn't practice democracy.

[NCTraveler]

191. Fuck Nader. nt.

[felix_numinous]

195. 1-Gore won in the stolen election of 2000

2-a free thinking woman has a right to free speech 3- Nader was right about the corporations taking over, and a lot of people believed in him at the time

Ya we get conservatives really don't like liberal women who speak their mind.

[choie]

207. "Fellow travelers"

That's vile, but I expect no less from a Clinton supporter.