2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLastest Hillary defense: It's okay to take huge contributions from gazillionaires because ...
IT'S LEGAL!!!!
Now there's a defensible rationale, no?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)So apparently, the derivatives fueled crash of 2008 was okay in your view too ... because it was legal.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)Oh, I forgot, there are two kinds of people, those who can extrapolate ...
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)$$ $$
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)how was she supposed to keep the water & electricity on in her $10.4M NYC home?
Poor little rich girl... Mommy & daddy just couldn't make ends meet with >$600k/yr in federal pensions and millions in book deals... 😖
jmg257
(11,996 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)blm
(113,040 posts)forced to disarm before the laws change and GOP, as well, is forced to adhere to public finance laws.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Imagine the money that could be raised if the Democratic Party used his strategy on a much larger scale, to appeal to voters of both candidates and all who support a set of cleanly defined progressive goals (even if it's just "Not GOP" to be accountable to the people instead corporations, lobbyists and billionaires.
Bernie is doing a workaround of a bad system, and showing it can be done.
blm
(113,040 posts)I know Sanders wouldn't stick to that in general election if he becomes the nominee, and none of us should expect or WANT him to.
So many of you have forgotten that Kerry, who actually WROTE the Public Financing of campaigns bill he submitted to senate in the 90s, never accepted corporate pac money in any of his senate elections. He could not have gone into the presidential general election in 2004 without it. He wasn't being bought or compromised, he was putting up a fight in the arena that existed, not the one anyone wished.
Sorry, but, I see what goes on in states where all the financial advantages belong to GOP. I'm living in NC and look how quickly this once proud progressive state has regressed.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)But they ought to be looking at what Sanders has achieved as a template and commit to that and start laying the groundwork......instead of waiting for CU to maybe be repealed someday....and planning the next beg-o-rama to the corporate benefactors.
And also start applying it in Congress, to defuse the power of the lobbyists to craft legislation to their whims.
blm
(113,040 posts)what they are insisting be done.
This and the B or Bust talk are both hurting what I do in the party, GOTV, and I take this stuff seriously and personally, just as any GOTV activist/worker will.
It doesn't make me popular with the BoB crowd here, but, it's the reality-based reaction to what is being actively promoted here at DU.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)then I don't care.
They were going to give the money to somebody.
KPN
(15,642 posts)as in not against the law.
polichick
(37,152 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)Legal = not against the law.
polichick
(37,152 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)I don't share your sense of moral outrage about something that
is legal.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Good grief, get a clue!
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Only one possible response.
/bye.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)I just don't care about this issue.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)And now it's not.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Come now. You can do better than that.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)It's not against the law.
It's not a personal outrage to me.
KPN
(15,642 posts)with you, Hillarians and HRC. Moral and ethical corruption.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)I don't even kind of care.
I hope Hillary has the biggest war chest in the history of war chests
when she has to face the GOP this fall.
polichick
(37,152 posts)using that logic.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)That's pretty low.
polichick
(37,152 posts)in your world apparently.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)Nothing was said about torturing anybody.
You seem POd because I'm not outraged.
And in any case torturing children is illegal.
I don't share your outrage that's hardly the same thing as being pro torture.
polichick
(37,152 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)I just don't care even a little bit how many billionaires donated to Hillary.
They donate to all campaigns.
I still remember 2008 when Obama was supposedly only taking small donations.
Then after he won it turned out that wasn't exactly true.
There's some PAC supporting Bernie
They all take money from the wealthy.
If it's illegal and a candidate is doing it then I'd be a little more outraged.
Until then I don't care.
polichick
(37,152 posts)It would still be legal to beat kids, enslave black people, and keep women from voting.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)is it that we have a moral obligation to not support laws that are legal but that we find personally immoral.
Maybe we have a duty to changes those laws because we disagree with the on a moral basis.
Or is it just that we should all be more outraged about them.
polichick
(37,152 posts)those who benefit from the immoral law have purchased the politicians who write those laws.
It's beyond absurd to believe that politicians don't serve those who intentionally buy them.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)It's not illegal for trillionaires to give candidates money.
Again. I don't care. It's what's legal.
When the law is changed then I'll care.
polichick
(37,152 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)Until then you seem to be upset because things aren't like they should be.
The OP was about defending Hillary for taking money from billionaires
just because it was legal.
It doesn't need a defense. It's not against the law.
It's not a moral outrage to me.
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about how things should be.
polichick
(37,152 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)People like you are getting in the way and slowing down progress. It's temporary though. Of course, once the changes are made, you'll pat yourselkves on the back for the fine work you did saving our nation. Shallow.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)The crux of which is the AR & ammo based in the lawsuit were legally purchased and marketed, though it shouldn't be?
griffi94
(3,733 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)And will likely be the basis of a big contrast in the GE.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)And then turn around and restive that billionaires taxes to near zero?
It's legal ... Is it right? ... Should it be right?
Some of us believe this should be CLEARLY against the law .... We reject the argument that it's legal therefore it's ok ...
griffi94
(3,733 posts)But I don't care as long as it's legal.
It's not a moral position for me. I'm not outraged.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)So, please show -- EVEN ONCE -- where: "Sanders has always been funded by rich, he just lies or omits it."
polichick
(37,152 posts)brooklynite
(94,488 posts)brooklynite
(94,488 posts)He'll need 10X his Primary cash for the GE...
He'll need contributions for all the House and Senate races (so far, -three- Democratic Primary races are all that's important)...
He'll need money for each State Party for voter registration and turnout...
Waiting to see the plan.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)to the tune of not more than about 20% (if even that). If she didn't take cash from the wealthy to make up for her failure to solicit donations from the average voter, her campaign would have run out of cash a LONG TIME ago.
Ino
(3,366 posts)she would be Bernie-like. And being Bernie-like, I believe she would get donations from the average voter.
I donate to Bernie because he fights for me, because his integrity is not for sale, because he's not wealthy... and so he needs my donation.
She is none of those things. She can go fund herself.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Bernie would have already wrapped this thing up ... probably long ago.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)So quit picking on her!!!!
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)Now lets put on our piggy masks and party.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)She accepted the vast sums because that's what they offered
She took the vast sums because it is legal
Well as someone wisely pointed out on FaceBook:
Slavery was legal
Colonialism was legal
The Holocaust was legal
Apartheid was legal...
Legality is a matter of power, not justice
HRC
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)It's not what is right or wrong, moral or immoral, it's "can we get away with it?"
From a legal standpoint, even if it's not legal, can we create a legal wall around us to deflect, defer, and delay until everyone forgets about it or prosecutors give up.
Taking money from Wall Street disqualifies you from getting my vote when I have an option that is unsullied by such corruption.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)Between her tethers to Wall Street and her aye vote on IWR, I will never vote for her
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)Jeb Bush having more campaign contribution money isn't a justification. So what's your point?
Didn't you learn from your Mama? Two wrongs don't make a right.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Is coordinating with PACs bad? Well, it was for Scott Walker (R, Gov WI) he had 2 John Doe investigations involving his doing it.
But, you see it's perfectly moral for HRC campaign to do it with David Brock because there's a loophole in the law that makes it legal.
HRC has doesn't need a moral compass, she has the law and it's loopholes. What she -needs- is more PAC money and more PACs producing more flak for Sanders' campaign
QC
(26,371 posts)icecreamfan
(115 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)by being Wall Street's senator.
Joob
(1,065 posts)Doesn't mean much but if it was huge, it would mean a whole lot.
And that's, the problem.
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)has hit critical mass.