The myth that Hillary is a conservative.

[StayFrosty]

[img][/img]

I do not believe Senator Sanders is a progressive, but I do believe that he's a socialist.

Hillary seems the most progressive to me.

Also why aren't we hearing more about Sanders' vote to dump Vermont's Radioactive nuclear waste in a Latino community in Texas?

Or his support of the F-35 program?

When asked about it, this was his response.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But my view is that given the reality of the damn plane, I’d rather it come to Vermont than to South Carolina. And that’s what the Vermont National Guard wants, and that means hundreds of jobs in my city. That’s it.”

The fact that all of this stuff has been swept under the rug by the media and especially the Right's propaganda machine, is even more supportive of the theory that the Right is salivating at having to face a Socialist in the General Election.

[cantbeserious]

1. Cherry Picked Legislation To Foster Candidate Propaganda

eom

[Depaysement]

36. And another puppet thread can mercifully die . . . nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

58. The internet propaganda machine is getting it's trial run during this campaign

[Depaysement]

71. Truth

Especially here.

[Orsino]

75. Cherry-picked from the profoundly conservative business of the Senate, moreover.

Any Democrat can be made to look like a liberal, and when nuanced stated positions are ignored, hell, they can be Che Guevara.

[AgerolanAmerican]

2. Ex-Im helps "small business"?

Who are you kidding? Ex-Im primarily helps Boeing.

Clinton isn't a conservative - she's a neocon. They're the same on corporatism and war, but the latter will make as many false promises on social issues as necessary to pose as an electable moderate.

[Arneoker]

9. If Hillary is a neocon

Then what would someone with a record that is same as 93% of hers, like Bernie Sanders, be?

Yes they have some real differences. But up against the Republicans, especially that nutjob Trumpo, they aren't all that much

[AgerolanAmerican]

10. 93% my hindquarters

They couldn't be more different on the things that actually matter.

[pengu]

29. They never talk about that 7%

That 7% is things like Iraq, the Patriot Act, the 2001 bankruptcy bill, free trade, and other disgusting shit.

Who cares how many highways and post offices they agreed to name.

[Vote2016]

39. Neocons are defined by their interventionist foreign policy. The areas of agreement between Hillary

and Sanders are generally on domestic issues.

[Ed Suspicious]

59. We have 90% or more identical DNA to pigs. We are pretty much pigs.

[libdem4life]

82. ...

[Hortensis]

3. Fortunately, we won't have to watch the right wing

character assassination industry tear Bernie apart.

And Hillary is a battle-scarred warrior they have never been able to take down. Most people have become bored and irritated with the usual attacks. Only the fools and nasties who love to hate her greedily suck them up, and there's nothing to be done about them. I actually feel about as good as I can about her taking the right on yet again. It is going to be incredibly nasty, though.

[Native]

66. You're right, it will be incredibly nasty, and for that I'm glad they are preparing accordingly

....Brock.

[hobbit709]

4. The myth that she's a Progressive.

[Android3.14]

5. Another brand spanking new poster engaged in hillogical arguments

She;s a weak candidate and we need Sanders to beat Trump.

[Jester Messiah]

61. "Hillogical"? Oh that is GOOD!

I may have to steal that!

[Android3.14]

73. Be my guest. I'm rather pleased with the term

[frylock]

76. There has been some really good terminology coined this season.

Hillogical is brilliant!

[bobbobbins01]

6. Extending Bush's tax cuts is a good thing now?

Wow.

[Thinkingabout]

27. Who wants to extend Bush tax cuts?

[bobbobbins01]

31. HR 4853 was to extend Bush's tax cuts.

Its being framed here as a negative for Bernie, yet he voted against it.

[Thinkingabout]

37. Good for Sanders.

[NCTraveler]

7. K&R

Right after Sanders stumped for Schumlin Jane was appointed to the Vermont Commission dealing with the nuclear waste. It was a blatant payback for help on the trail. Some of that cronyism Sanders rails against.

[Armstead]

15. I think we had an argument about this months ago

She gets a very small stipend for being an alternate, I can't find the specific figure but it's not enough to be worth mentioning.

Otherwise there is no personal benefit from serving on a commission with the rather humdrum job of managing the logistics of solid waste disposal. If the Sanders operated a hauling firm or something, it might be called corruption.

More importantly, as I pointed out then, this is in no way nefarious. Is Mrs. Sanders precluded from ever dong public service because her husband is a Senator?

Criticizing "cronyism" and using connections and "favoritism" is a VERY slippery slope for the Clintons as an issue. A couple who have earned a combined $190 million (depending on source) after a career of "public service" and getting big bucks for short speeches by Corporations and the Banksters before another run for the WH, and all of the entanglements of the Clinton Foundation.......

And, no I'm not going to get into another back-and-forth over it. Just suggesting some perspective might be helpful in this.

[NCTraveler]

16. It was blatantly obvious it was a favor.

You really just highlighted that while not attempting to do so.

The Clintons often hook up those in their circle. Never said they didn't. You are arguing that cronyism is justifiable, the scale is what matters. Of course Sanders cronyism is on a smaller scale, he has played small ball his whole career.

[Armstead]

17. What were the benefits to the Sanders?

What do they gain from her being an alternate on a relatively obscure state board with a very focused purpose?

[NCTraveler]

19. I edited my post after your reply.

My apologies. When I hit update your post was there. I didn't change my direction.

Benefits: political relationships. As you yourself mentioned monetary. Access to socialites and the more powerful. Influence.

Cronyism isn't just monetary. Never has been.

[Armstead]

21. Bernie Sanders doesn't need that either....

Yes politics is about relationships and interaction. That's the nature of it, and the grease that allows the wheels to turn. But that fact is not the same as bad cronyism or political corruption.

There is no unseemly benefit for the Sanders in this. He doesn't need an entree to establish political relationships by having his wife serve on an obscure board.

He has been a formidable political leader in Vermont since the early 90's. He was the state's only Congressman for decades -- usually elected by huge margins. He is now one of their Senators, also elected by a huge margin.

He is also, as you may have noticed, his own person and somewhat cantankerous. If he campaigned for Schumlin, it was because he thought he was the best person for the job -- not because he would benefit politically from having his wife serve on some unsexy board.

[NCTraveler]

23. I disagree. It was clearly a political favor.

Look at the timeline. And Sanders has made deals with the "establishment" early in his career an often. I know you are educated about Sanders and are well aware of it. His first five years in public service and the deals he made with the party knocks your argument out of the water.

I don't see it as awful. It's what career politicians do. Clinton does it on a much larger scale. To the point I do occasionally take issue with it.

[Armstead]

28. That's all I'm saying

The system operates in a certain way. That can be good or bad. The devil is always in the details.

Relationships and favors, etc. can simply help the wheels to turn....The problem is when that congeals into a corrupt system, where cronyism becomes too entrenched and -- more importantly -- when it twists the operations into outcomes to close it off, and that benefits certain segments unfairly and in ways that harm the majority.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

8. I've always said the Party that Clinton and Rahm Emanuel built is fiscally conservative but

socially liberal. To paraphrase Thomas Frank, we're all Kansas now. The Party that overseas the distribution of wealth to the top 10% is held hostage by wage issues. It was a brilliant coup!

[Vote2016]

42. Exactly. They are neoliberals - economic "free" traders not much different from Paul Ryan, but very

different on social issues

[Herman4747]

11. All the points addressed ARE RELATIVELY TRIVIAL

DAMN IT, TRIVIAL!!

Which candidate voted with ALL the Republicans AND AGAINST OBAMA in support of cluster bombs?

Which candidate has HENRY KISSINGER as a mentor for foreign policy advice?

Which candidate, having Henry Kissinger as a mentor, took actions in favor of the overthrow of the democratically elected president of Honduras?

Which candidate sought to export FRACKING (GLOBAL WARMING INDUCING FRACKING) to Europe?

Which candidate voted to give George W. Bush the right to invade Iraq? REPEAT: GEORGE W. BUSH!!

Which candidate calls 78 million Iranians "enemies"?

Which candidate WILL REFUSE TO BREAK UP THE TOO BIG TO FAIL BANKS SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES PAYING HER OFF?

Which candidate was firmly against GAY MARRIAGE for years, and only changed her position when she thought it might cost her the presidency?

Which candidate LIES WITH A FREQUENCY THAT WOULD MAKE RICHARD NIXON PROUD?

Which candidate actually voted with the Republicans for the Patriot Act, and which candidate voted against the Patriot Act?

Which candidate sat on the WalMart Board of Directors and DID NOTHING TO PROMOTE UNIONIZATION WITHIN THAT COMPANY FOR SIX LONG YEARS? Indeed, actually praised the company & had stock in the company!!!

Which candidate declared that Republican John McCain had more relevant experience than did Democrat Barack Obama?

Which candidate was a "Goldwater Girl" as a teenager, THEN AS AN ADULT DECADES LATER DECLARES SHE WAS "PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A GOLDWATER GIRL"? (NOT ASHAMED, MIND YOU, BUT PROUD, GOLDWATER HAVING STRONGLY OPPOSED CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION)

[John Poet]

12. ^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^

[Thinkingabout]

32. Or the candidate who voted against WMD inspections

the candidate who does not have a foreign policy
the candidate who did not know Dodd Frank would break up failing banks
the candidate who was for Civil Unions and later evolved for gay marriage
the candidate who ran as a Liberty Union candidate
the candidate who did not become a Democrat until a year ago
What board of directors has Sanders served on
the same candidate who voted five times against the Brady Bill after the NRA had donated $18,000 to defeat his opponent (influenced)


This same candidate who has been in congress for twenty five years and still thinks of himself as an outsider

[Herman4747]

49. Except for the Brady Bill, all points either untrue or trivial

Here, learn something: https://berniesanders.com/issues/war-and-peace/

Whoever Bernie's foreign policy advisor is, we can say with certainty that he does not choose to be guided by the guy on the right:



[link:http://www.thenation.com/article/henry-kissinger-hillary-clintons-tutor-in-war-and-peace/|Henry Kissinger, Hillary Clinton’s Tutor in War and Peace

] "Last night, Clinton once again praised a man with a lot of blood on his hands."

Ouch! That's got to sting, doesn't it, Thinkingabout? Stings real bad.

Deal with it.

[Thinkingabout]

55. Oh, really, trivial, we have 80 people a day on average dying from gun violence and it

is trivial? No, don't think so.

[Herman4747]

60. And I said "Except for the Brady Bill"

Maybe you missed those words.

You have undoubtedly missed this too:

Bernie Sanders’ NRA report card: D-minus is most recent grade

[Thinkingabout]

74. He should have a F rating, he doesn't.

[Herman4747]

80. More importantly, Hillary shouldn't be...

...getting foreign policy advice from the guy on the right:

?quality=90&strip=all&w=664&h=441&crop=1

Yet she does.

[Thinkingabout]

83. Criticizing Hillary for talking to Kissinger about foreign policy, i am more concerned about

A candidate running for President of the US in a global world who has not displayed an understanding of foreign affairs, he would be very lucky to have someone with the foreign affairs to even talk to him about a subject he is lacking. And to think Sanders has been in Congress for twenty five years making decisions and is not able to display his foreign policy, he isn't interested in being the president, he doesn't want the responsibility of the position.

[Herman4747]

84. It isn't so much merely talking to Kissinger...

...about foreign policy, BUT BEING GUIDED BY HIM!

In 2012, as Honduras descended into social and political chaos in the wake of a US-sanctioned military coup

When Clinton was secretary of state the U.S. helped overthrow Honduras' elected government.

Hillary Clinton needs to answer for her actions in Honduras and Haiti

Kissinger pressed Nixon to overthrow the democratically elected Allende government

****************************************
Bernie is willing to cooperate with other countries, in such matters as the fight against global warming, the fight against the Islamic State, and (possibly) the resettling of refugees. He simply does not want the United States to be the world's sole police.

[Thinkingabout]

85. Sanders does not have a foreign policy, has been making decisions without the

Proper knowledge. Whatever you want to post it would have been a good move to have gotten good strong counsel about foreign policy, he did not.

[Herman4747]

87. I strongly dispute your contention. BUT....

if for the sake of argument we maintain your contention is true, then I think we both can agree that it is better to have no foreign policy at all, than to have a wicked foreign policy.

[Thinkingabout]

88. In today's global world is not a choice and Hillary has foreign policy knowledge, not wicked.

[frylock]

77. I haven't heard much from Hillary on gun control since the campaign came out West.

What's up with that?

[JRLeft]

86. What about her weapons deals? If she's so anti gun why did she sell weapons to authoritarian

governments?

[Armstead]

13. Perfect propaganda...This supplied by the Brock Shop?

Every one of those points lacks any context, and thus bends reality.

It's so fucking wrong it's not even worth the time to provide that context, because provides of propaganda just want to put shit out there with no interest in refutation.

[Broward]

18. How about supporting paid trolls on the Internet? Is that progressive?

[UCmeNdc]

20. The problem with Hillary is she needs to take more progressive ideas and fight aggressively for them

When she takes a progressive issue she argues so passively for that issue. It makes her seem insincere. If she means to bring jobs back to the United States then argue aggressive manner and give solutions in that argument.

[workinclasszero]

22. Hillary Clinton is rated a Hard-Core Liberal.

http://ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[hobbit709]

24. Does that include super predators that must be brought to heel and welfare reform?

How about her hawkishness, big banking buddies, etc.

[workinclasszero]

30. How about dumping toxic nuclear waste on poor Hispanic folks that couldn't fight back?

How about protecting Big Gun manufacturers from lawsuits from grieving families who's loved ones were gunned down with their murderous weapons?

How about voting against the Brady bill 5 times?

How about helping the MIC waste billions on the F-35 boondoggle?

[Vote2016]

44. On the issues defines "liberal" based largely in Democratic Party votes and "conservative" based on

Republican Party votes.

If you accept that definition, Hillary is a liberal. Of course, that is not the definition of liberalism.

[workinclasszero]

46. Your spin changes nothing

[Vote2016]

50. Just look for yourself on how On The Issues charts politicians. It is not based on the type of issue

that you or I would take on the website, but is based mainly on votes for or against partisan legislation.

This essentially redefines ideology as party loyalty. No one disputes that Hillary voted regularly with the Democrats.

[workinclasszero]

51. Your spin changes nothing pt. 2

[Vote2016]

56. On second thought, your argument works better without the facts so DON'T look at the facts.

[workinclasszero]

57. The facts are right here but you seem to have a problem with them

Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

62. Cherry pick the issues and I could be anywhere on there

when in fact I'm a left leaning moderate.

And what does it say that Sanders represents the things that are important to me better than Hillary?

[workinclasszero]

63. If Sanders reps you more than Hillary, fine. I got no problem with that

But don't tell me she is not a hardcore liberal, that is pure hogwash.

That's as stupid as me claiming Sanders is a religious right dominionist!

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

70. She's liberal on social issues.

The military, war, Wall Street, banks, corporate cronies - No WAY is she liberal.

But you just keep thinking that and if you agree with her on those issues, then you'll be happy. If you don't, well - you'll be a bit surprised.

[workinclasszero]

72. Its hard to find a person I agree with 100% on every issue

But any democrat is better than any republican and that's the bottom line for me.

[RufusTFirefly]

67. Yeah, right. And Obama is a Muslim Socialist

[frylock]

78. And Blink-182 is hard-core punk.

[aikoaiko]

25. Those Bernie votes/statements are more liberal or progressive when you look at the details.

But you just don't know it.

[apcalc]

26. Anyone that thinks Hillary is conservative,

Or a neo-con is deluded, or seriously misinformed.
There is absolutely no basis whatsoever for that claim.

[Vote2016]

34. Of course Hillary is a neocon. How can you square her foreign policy with any other conclusion?

[Recursion]

38. Neocons don't back the Iran deal. Hillary Clinton does.

For that matter, if there's a sine qua non of neoconservatism today, it's that question.

[Vote2016]

47. Hillary is just (appopriately) supporting Obama's policy. You cannot believe she would enter into a

similar agreement if she were at the helm.

[Recursion]

48. Sure I can. The interesting question is why you can't. What's the epistemological block there?

I'd do some soul-searching, if I were you.

[Vote2016]

54. It isn't a matter of soul searching; it's a matter of comparing her attitude toward Israel and

Israeli opposition to the agreement. Hillary rarely defies Netanyahu; Obama regularly does. On what basis do you think Hillary would originate an agreement with Iran that Israel opposes?

[Cosmic Kitten]

41. KAGAN & KISSINGER enough said

[Vote2016]

33. You have a non-dictionary-based understanding of the words "progressive" and "socialist."

Saying you don't believe someone is progressive but you do believe he or she is a socialist is like saying you don't believe Nyquist is a mammal but you do believe he is a horse.

In America, Hillary is more progressive than the mid-point if you were to list all elected officials from most progressive to least progressive. If you were to list all elected officials from all NATO countries, she would be less progressive than the mid-point. Sanders would be well to her left on such lists.

[Cosmic Kitten]

35. Hillary is proud of her Goldwater girl conservativism

[CrowCityDem]

40. Yes Hillary is progressive, and so is Bernie. They only aren't if you want to see them that way.

[baldguy]

43. But your picture doesn't have bold-faced fonts and pretty colors.

And a little bird landed on Bernie's lectern, so must be a liberal!

[QC]

45. Humans and rhesus monkeys share 93% of their DNA.

That other 7% is pretty important.

[RufusTFirefly]

52. Not this crap again

[QC]

64. Recycling is normally a good thing, but not always. n/t

[d_legendary1]

65. You just proved that HRC is a freaking conservative!

1. S.1348: Establishes a temporary guest worker program (H-2C visa). Provides: (1) that the Secretary of Homeland Security (Secretary) shall determine H-2C eligibility; (2) for a three-year admission with one additional three-year extension; (3) issuance of H-4 nonimmigrant visas for accompanying or following spouse and children; (4) for U.S. worker protection; (5) for implementation of an alien employment management system; and (6) establishment of a Temporary Worker Task Force.

Authorizes cancellation of removal and adjustment to conditional permanent resident status of certain alien students who are long-term U.S. residents.

Sets forth the conditions for a six-year conditional permanent resident status.

States that English is the national language of the United States. Requires the government to preserve and enhance the role of English as the national language of the United States.

2. Most of the undocumented immigrants in this country overstay their visa allotted time. Half a million people did that in 2015. WTF would want to expand visas? Oh wait...

3. Ex-Im has categorized large multinationals like Bechtel as small businesses. How the hell is this actually beneficial to small businesses?

4. AKA the Bush Tax cuts! They should have expired but instead they were passed along with cuts to Social Security and Medicare. I know for a fact Sanders didn't vote for that shit.

5. Pro Gun Bernie! Pro Gun Bernie! Pro Gun Bernie! Pro Gun Bernie! /Sarc off

6. You know who else signed that into law? Obama. And you know what else that law says? The weapon has to be unloaded and it has to ride in a special compartment. Once again from the top: Pro Gun Bernie! Pro Gun Bernie!

7. The article in question is a statement from Tim Murphy who said that Sanders wants to legalize all drugs. But of course there is no evidence that Sanders has pushed such a message along his time in politics, let alone his campaign.

8. You know who else voted for that Bill? Hillary's husband. And three states also agreed to do it including Texas.

9. Utter Rubbish. The real quote is, "What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help." Read the interview: http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

10. We're off the deep end here and quite frankly, not worth going over. I should have stopped at #9.

So how exactly is HRC a progressive?

[hollowdweller]

68. Really. Reading that list makes me like Hillary LESS

[d_legendary1]

69. I think that was Brock's plan all along

and its working!

[jamese777]

79. In 2008, her last year in the Senate

the American Conservative Union (the sponsors of CPAC) gave Hillary Clinton a lifetime (8 years in the Senate) rating of 8.13 out of 100 for her votes on issues of primary concern to conservatives.
In the year 2007, her ACU rating was 0.

http://acuratings.conservative.org/acu-federal-legislative-ratings/?year1=2008&chamber=13&state1=45&sortable=1

[AgingAmerican]

81. Propaganda