2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumRobert Kagen Endorses Hillary!
From the May 26th Arch Druid Report:
For the connoisseur of sociopolitical absurdity, the last few weeks worth of news cycles very nearly defines the phrase target-rich environment. I note, for example, that arch-neoconservative Robert Kaganthe founder of the Project for a New American Century and principal architect of this nations idiotically bloodthirsty Middle East policies, a man who never met a body bag he didnt likehas jumped party lines to endorse Hillary Clintons presidential ambitions.
Go. Read. Learn.
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2016/05/against-cultural-senility_25.html?m=1
applegrove
(118,589 posts)from Hillary.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)A month before the Heilbrunn piece, the Times profiled Kagan, who was critical of Obamas foreign policy, but supported Clinton. I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy, Kagan told the Times. If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue its something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that.
Emphasis mine.
madokie
(51,076 posts)progressives not pay attention to what they type on these pages? Statements that belie their stated or insinuated beliefs
Maybe I take what I read too seriously, I just don't know
Scuba
(53,475 posts)oasis
(49,365 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)Great plan!
oasis
(49,365 posts)no time in posting it on DU. Until then, Kagan is just another Repulican who knows Trump is a danger to America.
jillan
(39,451 posts)oasis
(49,365 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)Great plan!
jfern
(5,204 posts)oasis
(49,365 posts)vote for warmongers. You're in good company.
jfern
(5,204 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)oasis
(49,365 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)My,my,my how times -- and DU -- have changed
oasis
(49,365 posts)more former PNAC "masterminds" like her better than Trump, it's because she has a far better grasp of the critical political situation in the Middle East than does Donald Trump.
Jeb Bush, a PNAC charter member and his dopey brother George have also turned away from the GOP choice. Weekly Standard honcho and neo-con William Kristol is trying his best to stop Trump by introducing a third party challenger. There seems to be a hidden message to concerned patriots in the GOP that Hillary is the only safe option available.
PufPuf23
(8,764 posts)Victoria Nuland is married to Robert Kagan. Nuland would likely have a prominent in a Hillary Clinton administration.
from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
During the Bill Clinton administration, Nuland was chief of staff to Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott before moving on to serve as deputy director for former Soviet Union affairs.
She served as the principal deputy foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney and then as U.S. ambassador to NATO.
Nuland became special envoy for Conventional Armed Forces in Europe and then became State Department spokesperson in summer 2011.[5]
She was nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs in May 2013 and sworn in to fill that role in September 2013.[6] During her confirmation hearings, she faced "sharp questions" about a memo she had sent outlining the talking points that would be used by the Obama administration in the days shortly after the 2012 Benghazi attack.[7]
In her role as Assistant Secretary, she has been the lead U.S. point person for the Ukrainian crisis. She was a key figure in establishing loan guarantees to Ukraine, including a $1 billion loan guarantee in 2014, and the provisions of non-lethal assistance to the Ukrainian military and border guard.[8][9] Along with Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defense Ash Carter, she is seen as a leading supporter of defensive weapons delivery to Ukraine. In 2016 Nuland urged Ukraine to start prosecuting corrupt officials: "It's time to start locking up people who have ripped off the Ukrainian population for too long and it is time to eradicate the cancer of corruption".[10]
===============
American foreign policy Ukraine, the Baltics, and other former states of the USSR are also part of the PNAC plans for global dominance as are the leftist governments of South America.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)but that fact is not exactly a popular talking point. I can't begin to imagine why...
http://web.archive.org/web/20020205133621/http://www.newamericancentury.org/balkans.htm
A problem can't begin to be addressed until it is identified.
The affirmative task we have now is to actually create a new world order - VP Joe Biden, 2013
oasis
(49,365 posts)oasis
(49,365 posts)oasis
(49,365 posts)At my own expense, I printed, and distributed flyers in two major cities.
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)oasis
(49,365 posts)be concerned. Right now, he's just one of many GOP votes she'll get to keep Trump out of the White House.
It says more about Trump than Hillary
Meteor Man
(385 posts)Kagan seems to be quite sincere in his adulation for Clinton. Whats more, his wife Victoria Nuland, a Hillary Clinton protegé in the State Department and a major player in the Obama administrations pursuit of Cold War brinksmanship against Russia, is now being rumored as Clintons most likely pick for Secretary of State.
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2016/05/against-cultural-senility_25.html?m=1
jillan
(39,451 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)elleng
(130,835 posts)Been wondering what if anything Wes Clark might think/say substantively re: hrc's foreign policies, as he's endorsed her, and been a friend for a long time. Found this: http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/08/27/us-general-wesley-clark-war-on-syria-planned-in-1991-as-part-of-middle-east-land-grab/
Because War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/835823-war-is-a-force-that-gives-us-meaning
Nothing like a good old fashioned war to make everybody happy.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Meteor Man
(385 posts)People for A New American Century: http://www.newamericancentury.org/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi
.ROTFLMAO!
PNAC: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)You're doing the right thing posting this, of course. Thanks.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Always get the names right!
Nyan
(1,192 posts)Oh, what a great crowd. You can almost hear war drums in the backdrop.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Kagan, Murdoch, Kissinger, Koch. To the hillarians: please stop saying the Hillary and Bernie agree 93% of the time. Don't insult Sanders like that.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Kind of like saying "Let's put Dick Cheney on the campaign trail as a surrogate for Clinton."
YouDig
(2,280 posts)crazy and they come over to support Hillary, that's a good thing in my book.
I don't know much about this guy, and I don't care.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)that you don't know anything about him and the PNAC is another indication that you might want to study up on your 21st Century history a little bit
YouDig
(2,280 posts)That's how you win elections, getting more votes.
So PNAC is a neo-conservative think tank that was dissolved in 2006. Co-founded by Robert Kagan and Bill Kristol. Big deal, it's not like this is David Duke. If Bill Kristol wants to get on board, I'd take him too. It's not like they are going to be running her administration.
oasis
(49,365 posts)doing his best to keep Trump from reaching the White House.
ebayfool
(3,411 posts)Another DU first. A welcome post about PNAC. And so proud of the ignorance.
I'm getting too old for this shit.
djean111
(14,255 posts)and fracking and the TPP, now that the Third Way has oozed its greasy way into the entity formerly known as the "Democratic Party". I cannot and will not support those things, which is why the "Democratic Party" has left me.
And the kill-the-messenger thing, really, has gotten pathetic and formulaic. It is becoming like a call center operation of sorts, with hundreds of operators reading from scripts that they don't really fully understand are trite and obvious.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Kagan was the architect of Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld's blueprint for U.S. military occupation of the Middle East and world domination.
I've been warning about this for some time. The Neo-Con's are back. And they have Hillary as their tool this time. She wants to play with "the big boys." She vacations with and gets advice from Henry Fucking Kissinger.
This is what the Libya clusterfuck was about. This is what the Honduran coup was about. She was already "getting blooded" as Secretary of State.
Is this what feminism is these days? Playing bayonet rape, torture and murder games** with the "big boys" and not having to say you're sorry?
I am so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o disgusted by this! Kagan! Kissinger! WHAT NEXT? Cheney? Wolfowitz? Rumsfeld?
HAVE WE NOT HAD ENOUGH OF THIS!?
--------------------------
**(That's how Gadaffi died. Hillary laughs about it. "We came, we saw, he died! Har-har-har!" It's on vid. Check it out.)
Armstead
(47,803 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)Couldn't agree with you more... "Enough is Enough." Let's hope that there are those in our Shadow Government getting ready to break ranks with the PNAC'ers and the death and destruction they've brought to the ME with their "Regime Change" policies while wrecking our economy by funding endless wars leaving the American people to suffer while the 1% of the MIC/Wall Street fortunate thrive.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Everytime Bill Kristol gives Trump a sad, I smile inside.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...has Kagan, and Henry Kissinger, as advisors. These are monstrous warmongers! They are the architects of devastation for millions of people! And, as Clinton's actions on Libya and Honduras illustrate, she is with them. She now thinks like them. Have you seen the vid of Hillary's jolly laugh at the torture and murder of Gadaffi? How could anybody laugh at that? How could anybody make a joke of it? ("We came, we saw, he died! Har-har-har!" --Hillary Clinton).
The first word that sprang to my mind, watching that vid, was "psychosis." A break with reality. Not that I think Clinton is crazy or psychotic. I think the psychosis is social--a sort of catchable disease that roams among the people who hold great power or seek great power, in the most powerful country in the world, and some people get infected with this disease. The effects may be temporary, or may lead to slaughtering a hundred thousand innocent people, if the victim of the disease is in a position to do so. (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al.)
I'll venture a diagnosis that John Kerry has never been infected with this disease, nor Barack Obama. Kerry might have gotten immunized by his service in Vietnam. Obama just doesn't seem to have the kind of personality that would be vulnerable to it. I can't imagine him ever laughing at the torture and murder of another person, no matter who it was. Nor do I think he considers the disaster of "Hillary's War" (as I've heard it's called in DC) to be a triumph of any kind, worthy of celebration.
Maybe a better word for it is "war fever" but I do think it's catching, and I think Hillary "caught" this illness from Kagan, Kissinger and others of that ilk whom she pals around with and wants to impress. Her joking remark and her laughter at Gadaffi's murder--it seems without a thought of the horrible chaos that that act unleashed--is naked and open (for those moments in the vid), whereas her mentors mask the sense of power they get from commanding others to kill and inflicting mass death. They are colder and more practiced at it. Hillary is more like a raw recruit.
This worries me a lot about Hillary. I fear that she's they're tool, and that they do, indeed, intend to ride her back into the White House for another round of U.S. war on the Middle East and another go at "The Project For A New American Century." I'm talking about the Neo-Cons who brought us the war on Iraq. I think she has too much of a need to be accepted by these militarists.
Well, enough of my amateur psychoanalysis! I'm an old lady myself and have endured my country inflicting unjust war after unjust war upon other people in the world, while our soldiers come home crippled and broken, or in body bags. And I remember, like it was yesterday, who Henry Kissinger is and what he did, in the heyday of his mass murder binges. His name is anathema to most people of my age. When I learned that Hillary Clinton is close with Kissinger, vacations with him, is friends with that bastard, is advised by him, I knew what direction she was headed in, and I cringed, as if a car wreck was coming.
You could say that she's being very clever, wrapping all these men around her little finger, and that we probably need a president who is clever and is able to move around in all the circles of the rich and powerful. There is an argument to be made for that view (--although I don't think she's clever, leaving herself wide open to attack, as she did, with the private email server). But I don't read her that way--as a master manipulator of the imperial dons. I think it's the other way around--that she is being manipulated. That vid of her laughing at torture and murder tells me that she has caught their disease. She is, in a sense, "ill," and she doesn't hide it very well--and, in that vid, is unable to hide it at all.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Whereas the Greeks gave to will the boundaries of reason, we have come to put the wills impulse at the very center of reason, which has, as a result, become deadly. ... Nature is still there however. She contrasts her calm skies and her reasons with the madness of men. Until the atom too catches fire and history ends in the triumph of reason and the agony of the species. But the Greeks never said that the limit could not be overstepped. They said it existed and that whoever dared to exceed it was mercilessly struck down. Nothing in present history can contradict them.
-- A. Camus "Helen's Exile"
"A time is marked not so much by ideas that are argued about as by ideas that are taken for granted. The character of an era hangs upon what needs no defense."
-- Jonathan Lethem "The Ecstasy of Influence" Harper's Feb. 2007
Vinca
(50,254 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)...even the nice lady who said all the dead Iraqi babies was "worth it" is in on the action, via Albright Stonebridge: "Money trumps peace."