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Meteor Man

(385 posts)
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:44 AM Jun 2016

Robert Kagen Endorses Hillary!

From the May 26th Arch Druid Report:


For the connoisseur of sociopolitical absurdity, the last few weeks’ worth of news cycles very nearly defines the phrase “target-rich environment.” I note, for example, that arch-neoconservative Robert Kagan—the founder of the Project for a New American Century and principal architect of this nation’s idiotically bloodthirsty Middle East policies, a man who never met a body bag he didn’t like—has jumped party lines to endorse Hillary Clinton’s presidential ambitions.


Go. Read. Learn.


http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2016/05/against-cultural-senility_25.html?m=1
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Robert Kagen Endorses Hillary! (Original Post) Meteor Man Jun 2016 OP
Neocons are looking for a new perch. I doubt he gets the time of day applegrove Jun 2016 #1
Try to keep up ... Scuba Jun 2016 #26
Why is is that so many so called, or self styled madokie Jun 2016 #31
When Republicans do it we call it "willful ignorance." Scuba Jun 2016 #38
So what? At least he'll vote Democratic. Bernie or Busters won't. nt oasis Jun 2016 #2
Going for the warminger Vote Meteor Man Jun 2016 #3
If you see a Hillary ad heading in that direction I'm sure you'll waste oasis Jun 2016 #6
PNAC is a danger to America and to the world. jillan Jun 2016 #9
As POTUS, Hillary will be in charge, not PNAC. So relax. oasis Jun 2016 #13
That's soooo reassuring. JackRiddler Jun 2016 #18
Bring in the clowns! Meteor Man Jun 2016 #4
I don't vote for warmongers jfern Jun 2016 #11
And the millions who have made Hillary the Democratic nominee don't oasis Jun 2016 #15
They might want to take a closer look at her Syria policy jfern Jun 2016 #19
You clearly don't know what you're voting for then. Broward Jun 2016 #25
Yup.blind allegiance. oasis Jun 2016 #42
Were you here for all the talk of PNAC back in the day? Armstead Jun 2016 #30
Hill did not, does not support or embrace PNAC. If one or oasis Jun 2016 #40
The first PNAC project adopted was Plan Colombia while Bill Clinton was POTUS. PufPuf23 Jun 2016 #50
The 78 day bombing of Serbia was also a PNAC project nationalize the fed Jun 2016 #51
Nice pic of our Secretaries of State. oasis Jun 2016 #53
Thanks. Great info on Nuland. nt oasis Jun 2016 #52
I put in my time getting the word out on PNAC, back in the day. oasis Jun 2016 #43
There are votes you don't want and this is one of them Renew Deal Jun 2016 #36
If Kagen goes out and stumps for Hillary's campaign, then I'll oasis Jun 2016 #41
I agree Renew Deal Jun 2016 #44
Go. Read. Learn. Meteor Man Jun 2016 #5
Wrong place. sorry jillan Jun 2016 #8
O.M.G. jillan Jun 2016 #7
Quite something. elleng Jun 2016 #14
Yep Meteor Man Jun 2016 #20
With friends like that... n/t winter is coming Jun 2016 #10
PNAC Meteor Man Jun 2016 #12
Project, not "People" JackRiddler Jun 2016 #17
Kagan. JackRiddler Jun 2016 #16
Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland, Hillary Clinton. Nyan Jun 2016 #21
Sadly...yes...getting louder...n/t KoKo Jun 2016 #48
Why WOULDN'T he endorse a fellow neocon? There is nothing "Democratic" about her foreign policy Vote2016 Jun 2016 #22
Disgusting Doctor_J Jun 2016 #23
Republicans are starting to jump off the Trump ship. Good news. YouDig Jun 2016 #24
Do you know anything of the PNAC....and how it used to be regarded on DU? Armstead Jun 2016 #32
Would you rather have him supporting Trump? Not me. If Republicans think Trump is too YouDig Jun 2016 #33
yes I'd rather have him supporting Trump...and your admission..... Armstead Jun 2016 #35
If Republicans want to jump ship, I'm happy with that. More votes for us. YouDig Jun 2016 #39
Trump bashed Kristol yesterday in the press conference. Kristol is oasis Jun 2016 #47
That whooshing sound you just heard? Your point going right over someone's head. ebayfool Jun 2016 #56
Yep. Had a nauseous feeling that I would be seeing "Democrats" enthusiastically embracing war djean111 Jun 2016 #27
The Neo-Cons are planning to ride Hillary back into the White House. Peace Patriot Jun 2016 #28
Maybe Condi Rice will become a bi-partisan Secretary of State Armstead Jun 2016 #34
HAVE WE NOT HAD ENOUGH OF THIS!? KoKo Jun 2016 #49
It is more of a commentary about how much the right hates Trump, than being about Clinton Tarc Jun 2016 #29
That's a little bit topsy turvey Armstead Jun 2016 #37
Could be that that's some of it. But we cannot escape the fact that Hillary... Peace Patriot Jun 2016 #55
I have no objections to the actions taken in Libya Tarc Jun 2016 #57
Yep. bemildred Jun 2016 #45
Time to invest in companies that are known as war profiteers. Vinca Jun 2016 #46
That's why the Carlyle Group and Trireme Partnerships... Octafish Jun 2016 #58
With friends like that, who needs Democrats? nt mhatrw Jun 2016 #54
 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
26. Try to keep up ...
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:24 AM
Jun 2016
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-02-18/neoconservative-is-down-but-not-out-of-the-2016-race

Kagan served on Clinton’s bipartisan foreign policy advisory board when she was Secretary of State, has deep neocon roots. He was part of the Project for a New American Century, a now-defunct think tank that spanned much of the second Bush presidency and supported a “Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity.” PNAC counted Kagan, Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, William Kristol, and Jeb Bush among its members. In 1998, some of its members—including Wolfowitz, Kagan, and Rumsfeld—signed an open letter to President Bill Clinton asking him to remove Saddam Hussein from power.

A month before the Heilbrunn piece, the Times profiled Kagan, who was critical of Obama’s foreign policy, but supported Clinton. “I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy,” Kagan told the Times. “If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue … it’s something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that.”



Emphasis mine.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
31. Why is is that so many so called, or self styled
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:41 AM
Jun 2016

progressives not pay attention to what they type on these pages? Statements that belie their stated or insinuated beliefs

Maybe I take what I read too seriously, I just don't know

oasis

(49,365 posts)
6. If you see a Hillary ad heading in that direction I'm sure you'll waste
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:00 AM
Jun 2016

no time in posting it on DU. Until then, Kagan is just another Repulican who knows Trump is a danger to America.

oasis

(49,365 posts)
15. And the millions who have made Hillary the Democratic nominee don't
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:14 AM
Jun 2016

vote for warmongers. You're in good company.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
30. Were you here for all the talk of PNAC back in the day?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:35 AM
Jun 2016

My,my,my how times -- and DU -- have changed

oasis

(49,365 posts)
40. Hill did not, does not support or embrace PNAC. If one or
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:51 PM
Jun 2016

more former PNAC "masterminds" like her better than Trump, it's because she has a far better grasp of the critical political situation in the Middle East than does Donald Trump.

Jeb Bush, a PNAC charter member and his dopey brother George have also turned away from the GOP choice. Weekly Standard honcho and neo-con William Kristol is trying his best to stop Trump by introducing a third party challenger. There seems to be a hidden message to concerned patriots in the GOP that Hillary is the only safe option available.

PufPuf23

(8,764 posts)
50. The first PNAC project adopted was Plan Colombia while Bill Clinton was POTUS.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:43 PM
Jun 2016

Victoria Nuland is married to Robert Kagan. Nuland would likely have a prominent in a Hillary Clinton administration.

from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

During the Bill Clinton administration, Nuland was chief of staff to Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott before moving on to serve as deputy director for former Soviet Union affairs.

She served as the principal deputy foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney and then as U.S. ambassador to NATO.

Nuland became special envoy for Conventional Armed Forces in Europe and then became State Department spokesperson in summer 2011.[5]

She was nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs in May 2013 and sworn in to fill that role in September 2013.[6] During her confirmation hearings, she faced "sharp questions" about a memo she had sent outlining the talking points that would be used by the Obama administration in the days shortly after the 2012 Benghazi attack.[7]

In her role as Assistant Secretary, she has been the lead U.S. point person for the Ukrainian crisis. She was a key figure in establishing loan guarantees to Ukraine, including a $1 billion loan guarantee in 2014, and the provisions of non-lethal assistance to the Ukrainian military and border guard.[8][9] Along with Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defense Ash Carter, she is seen as a leading supporter of defensive weapons delivery to Ukraine. In 2016 Nuland urged Ukraine to start prosecuting corrupt officials: "It's time to start locking up people who have ripped off the Ukrainian population for too long and it is time to eradicate the cancer of corruption".[10]

===============

American foreign policy Ukraine, the Baltics, and other former states of the USSR are also part of the PNAC plans for global dominance as are the leftist governments of South America.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
51. The 78 day bombing of Serbia was also a PNAC project
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 04:01 PM
Jun 2016

but that fact is not exactly a popular talking point. I can't begin to imagine why...



http://web.archive.org/web/20020205133621/http://www.newamericancentury.org/balkans.htm

A problem can't begin to be addressed until it is identified.



“The affirmative task we have now is to actually create a new world order” - VP Joe Biden, 2013

oasis

(49,365 posts)
43. I put in my time getting the word out on PNAC, back in the day.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:06 PM
Jun 2016

At my own expense, I printed, and distributed flyers in two major cities.

oasis

(49,365 posts)
41. If Kagen goes out and stumps for Hillary's campaign, then I'll
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 12:59 PM
Jun 2016

be concerned. Right now, he's just one of many GOP votes she'll get to keep Trump out of the White House.

Meteor Man

(385 posts)
5. Go. Read. Learn.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:59 AM
Jun 2016
Kagan seems to be quite sincere in his adulation for Clinton. What’s more, his wife Victoria Nuland, a Hillary Clinton protegé in the State Department and a major player in the Obama administration’s pursuit of Cold War brinksmanship against Russia, is now being rumored as Clinton’s most likely pick for Secretary of State.


http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2016/05/against-cultural-senility_25.html?m=1

elleng

(130,835 posts)
14. Quite something.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:11 AM
Jun 2016

Been wondering what if anything Wes Clark might think/say substantively re: hrc's foreign policies, as he's endorsed her, and been a friend for a long time. Found this: http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/08/27/us-general-wesley-clark-war-on-syria-planned-in-1991-as-part-of-middle-east-land-grab/

Nyan

(1,192 posts)
21. Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland, Hillary Clinton.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:34 AM
Jun 2016

Oh, what a great crowd. You can almost hear war drums in the backdrop.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
23. Disgusting
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 07:15 AM
Jun 2016

Kagan, Murdoch, Kissinger, Koch. To the hillarians: please stop saying the Hillary and Bernie agree 93% of the time. Don't insult Sanders like that.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
32. Do you know anything of the PNAC....and how it used to be regarded on DU?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:42 AM
Jun 2016

Kind of like saying "Let's put Dick Cheney on the campaign trail as a surrogate for Clinton."

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
33. Would you rather have him supporting Trump? Not me. If Republicans think Trump is too
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:44 AM
Jun 2016

crazy and they come over to support Hillary, that's a good thing in my book.

I don't know much about this guy, and I don't care.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
35. yes I'd rather have him supporting Trump...and your admission.....
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:47 AM
Jun 2016

that you don't know anything about him and the PNAC is another indication that you might want to study up on your 21st Century history a little bit

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
39. If Republicans want to jump ship, I'm happy with that. More votes for us.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:52 AM
Jun 2016

That's how you win elections, getting more votes.

So PNAC is a neo-conservative think tank that was dissolved in 2006. Co-founded by Robert Kagan and Bill Kristol. Big deal, it's not like this is David Duke. If Bill Kristol wants to get on board, I'd take him too. It's not like they are going to be running her administration.

oasis

(49,365 posts)
47. Trump bashed Kristol yesterday in the press conference. Kristol is
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:20 PM
Jun 2016

doing his best to keep Trump from reaching the White House.

ebayfool

(3,411 posts)
56. That whooshing sound you just heard? Your point going right over someone's head.
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 05:01 AM
Jun 2016

Another DU first. A welcome post about PNAC. And so proud of the ignorance.


I'm getting too old for this shit.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
27. Yep. Had a nauseous feeling that I would be seeing "Democrats" enthusiastically embracing war
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:16 AM
Jun 2016

and fracking and the TPP, now that the Third Way has oozed its greasy way into the entity formerly known as the "Democratic Party". I cannot and will not support those things, which is why the "Democratic Party" has left me.

And the kill-the-messenger thing, really, has gotten pathetic and formulaic. It is becoming like a call center operation of sorts, with hundreds of operators reading from scripts that they don't really fully understand are trite and obvious.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
28. The Neo-Cons are planning to ride Hillary back into the White House.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:29 AM
Jun 2016

Kagan was the architect of Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld's blueprint for U.S. military occupation of the Middle East and world domination.

I've been warning about this for some time. The Neo-Con's are back. And they have Hillary as their tool this time. She wants to play with "the big boys." She vacations with and gets advice from Henry Fucking Kissinger.

This is what the Libya clusterfuck was about. This is what the Honduran coup was about. She was already "getting blooded" as Secretary of State.

Is this what feminism is these days? Playing bayonet rape, torture and murder games** with the "big boys" and not having to say you're sorry?

I am so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o disgusted by this! Kagan! Kissinger! WHAT NEXT? Cheney? Wolfowitz? Rumsfeld?

HAVE WE NOT HAD ENOUGH OF THIS!?

--------------------------

**(That's how Gadaffi died. Hillary laughs about it. "We came, we saw, he died! Har-har-har!" It's on vid. Check it out.)

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
49. HAVE WE NOT HAD ENOUGH OF THIS!?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 03:40 PM
Jun 2016

Couldn't agree with you more... "Enough is Enough." Let's hope that there are those in our Shadow Government getting ready to break ranks with the PNAC'ers and the death and destruction they've brought to the ME with their "Regime Change" policies while wrecking our economy by funding endless wars leaving the American people to suffer while the 1% of the MIC/Wall Street fortunate thrive.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
29. It is more of a commentary about how much the right hates Trump, than being about Clinton
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:34 AM
Jun 2016

Everytime Bill Kristol gives Trump a sad, I smile inside.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
55. Could be that that's some of it. But we cannot escape the fact that Hillary...
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 04:22 AM
Jun 2016

...has Kagan, and Henry Kissinger, as advisors. These are monstrous warmongers! They are the architects of devastation for millions of people! And, as Clinton's actions on Libya and Honduras illustrate, she is with them. She now thinks like them. Have you seen the vid of Hillary's jolly laugh at the torture and murder of Gadaffi? How could anybody laugh at that? How could anybody make a joke of it? ("We came, we saw, he died! Har-har-har!" --Hillary Clinton).

The first word that sprang to my mind, watching that vid, was "psychosis." A break with reality. Not that I think Clinton is crazy or psychotic. I think the psychosis is social--a sort of catchable disease that roams among the people who hold great power or seek great power, in the most powerful country in the world, and some people get infected with this disease. The effects may be temporary, or may lead to slaughtering a hundred thousand innocent people, if the victim of the disease is in a position to do so. (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al.)

I'll venture a diagnosis that John Kerry has never been infected with this disease, nor Barack Obama. Kerry might have gotten immunized by his service in Vietnam. Obama just doesn't seem to have the kind of personality that would be vulnerable to it. I can't imagine him ever laughing at the torture and murder of another person, no matter who it was. Nor do I think he considers the disaster of "Hillary's War" (as I've heard it's called in DC) to be a triumph of any kind, worthy of celebration.

Maybe a better word for it is "war fever" but I do think it's catching, and I think Hillary "caught" this illness from Kagan, Kissinger and others of that ilk whom she pals around with and wants to impress. Her joking remark and her laughter at Gadaffi's murder--it seems without a thought of the horrible chaos that that act unleashed--is naked and open (for those moments in the vid), whereas her mentors mask the sense of power they get from commanding others to kill and inflicting mass death. They are colder and more practiced at it. Hillary is more like a raw recruit.

This worries me a lot about Hillary. I fear that she's they're tool, and that they do, indeed, intend to ride her back into the White House for another round of U.S. war on the Middle East and another go at "The Project For A New American Century." I'm talking about the Neo-Cons who brought us the war on Iraq. I think she has too much of a need to be accepted by these militarists.

Well, enough of my amateur psychoanalysis! I'm an old lady myself and have endured my country inflicting unjust war after unjust war upon other people in the world, while our soldiers come home crippled and broken, or in body bags. And I remember, like it was yesterday, who Henry Kissinger is and what he did, in the heyday of his mass murder binges. His name is anathema to most people of my age. When I learned that Hillary Clinton is close with Kissinger, vacations with him, is friends with that bastard, is advised by him, I knew what direction she was headed in, and I cringed, as if a car wreck was coming.

You could say that she's being very clever, wrapping all these men around her little finger, and that we probably need a president who is clever and is able to move around in all the circles of the rich and powerful. There is an argument to be made for that view (--although I don't think she's clever, leaving herself wide open to attack, as she did, with the private email server). But I don't read her that way--as a master manipulator of the imperial dons. I think it's the other way around--that she is being manipulated. That vid of her laughing at torture and murder tells me that she has caught their disease. She is, in a sense, "ill," and she doesn't hide it very well--and, in that vid, is unable to hide it at all.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
45. Yep.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:31 PM
Jun 2016
Whereas the Greeks gave to will the boundaries of reason, we have come to put the will’s impulse at the very center of reason, which has, as a result, become deadly. ... Nature is still there however. She contrasts her calm skies and her reasons with the madness of men. Until the atom too catches fire and history ends in the triumph of reason and the agony of the species. But the Greeks never said that the limit could not be overstepped. They said it existed and that whoever dared to exceed it was mercilessly struck down. Nothing in present history can contradict them.

-- A. Camus "Helen's Exile"

"A time is marked not so much by ideas that are argued about as by ideas that are taken for granted. The character of an era hangs upon what needs no defense."

-- Jonathan Lethem "The Ecstasy of Influence" Harper's Feb. 2007

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
58. That's why the Carlyle Group and Trireme Partnerships...
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 08:38 AM
Jun 2016

...even the nice lady who said all the dead Iraqi babies was "worth it" is in on the action, via Albright Stonebridge: "Money trumps peace."

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