Pledged delegates aren't bound either. Did you know that?

[Chichiri]

They go to the convention with a signed loyalty pledge, and candidates have the right to swap delegates out if they believe they'll be unfaithful, but there is absolutely nothing to bind them to their choice.

The DNC rules state merely that a delegate shall "in good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them." Thus I can reason, the people who elected me want candidate A to be the nominee, but they want even more than that for our country and our party not to be destroyed, which will happen if candidate A is elected, so my conscience demands I vote for candidate B.

And the DNC itself has confirmed this: "Delegates are not bound to vote for the candidate they are pledged to at the Convention or on the first ballot."

They have declared their support in advance, just like the superdelegates.

They can change their minds, just like the superdelegates.

And yet we can, for the purposes of determining a winner, tally them for one side or another in advance.

Just like the superdelegates.

So ending the primary season on DU on June 16th is not only reasonable; in my opinion it is grossly biased toward Bernie supporters. If I ran the zoo, I would call the race the instant a candidate had enough pledged delegates and declared superdelegates to win, declare a 24-hour "grace period" for Bernie supporters to "get it out of their system" and decide whether or not they want to stay on DU, and then clamp down.

So repeat after me: "Thank you, Skinner."

[JimDandy]

1. If pledged delegates aren't bound even on first vote, then no Dem primary should ever be called

before the convention!

[Chichiri]

8. Exactly!

What a tremendous advantage that would give Republicans! They've already had a week or two headstart in rallying behind Drumpf.

[JimDandy]

23. No. The implication being, neither Clinton supporters nor the media should be declaring

Last edited Wed Jun 1, 2016, 06:06 PM - Edit history (3)

anyone the nominee, if that's true, until at least after the first votes have been cast at the National Dem Convention.

What is the source for your assertion that pledged delegates from the state convention levels are not bound through the first vote?

ETA: Following your line of reasoning then, Clinton delegates can reason that the people who elected them want candidate A (Clinton) to be the nominee, but they want even more than that for a Democrat to win out against Trump which won't happen if candidate A is elected (because she polls so poorly against Trump and comes with a mountain of baggage), so their conscience demands they vote for candidate B (Bernie).

[Chichiri]

28. Source: The DNC. nt

[DCBob]

15. Primaries are almost always called long before the convention starts for good reasons.

To give the presumptive nominee some breathing room and prep time for the convention and to allow for the party to begin to rally around the nominee and give them some momentum going into the convention.

[pandr32]

26. Exactly

The convention shouldn't be a Jerry Springer Show event.

[geek tragedy]

19. yes, welcome to the reductio ad absurdum. Except you seem to be embracing the absurdum. nt

Last edited Wed Jun 1, 2016, 05:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[JimDandy]

22. I'm seeing you a lot today.

Aww, you like me. You really like me!

Well, we left off with me phone banking for Bernie:

Lots of no answers, not homes and hangups.
Of the CA NPP (Independents only) voters who answered though,
8 were strong Sanders supporters
1 Lean Sanders
2 undecided (Really? At this late in the season?)
4 Strong other (ie not for Sanders, but didn't specify for whom they were voting.
0 Clinton
0 Trump

There, you're all caught up. What have you been doing the last 4 hours?

[Sheepshank]

2. yup...and I'm hearing that several have already abandoned Bernie and plan on voting for Hillary

[Matt_in_STL]

5. Awesome. Would love to see a link for that so I can pass it around.

[Sheepshank]

25. well....I'm sure you could google it as easily as I could, I suspect you were hoping for a "gotcha"

https://www.rt.com/usa/343411-sanders-clinton-superdelegate-switch/

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-05-17/sanders-quest-for-superdelegates-loses-one-after-virgin-island-official-flips-to-clinton

[Matt_in_STL]

27. That's a super delegate, not a pledged delegate as the OP, and you, suggest

Try again or just give up?

[JimDandy]

24. That's not believable. Maybe at the second vote, but not the first.

If so, please identify them. Sanders can have them removed and replaced, which you Clinton supporters should approve of after what the Clinton camp gave as their reason for what they pulled in Nevada.

[HumanityExperiment]

3. ...establishment thinking...

I can hear it now... establishment for the 'win'... is this the thrust of this post?

If so, huzzah... this is yet another desperation 'slam dunk', we're 'winning' but we need to make sure we cover our bases by expoliting rules and posting them so you're 'aware' of the circumstances that the primaries don't really matter... that it's really all party bosses that rule the outcome

SO... thx for posting this and re-affirming what Bernie supporters and so many independents are fighting for, VOICE and input into the process and outcome

[brush]

7. Primaries and caucuses of course do matter as they determine votes and delegates

Are you suggesting that party bosses, who you criticize as being the ones who will really decide who the nominee is, override the will of the voters and delegates and reward the nomination to the runner-up?

That's what it sounds like you're suggesting.

[HumanityExperiment]

9. OP's post suggests not I...

You did the initial post I replied to, correct? Your answer resides there

[brush]

10. Huh? Not clear.

[LanternWaste]

12. I like to minimize elections by referring to them as "establishment thinking" too.

I like to minimize the elections not going my way by referring to them as "establishment thinking" as well.

As it's so trendy to say among the petulant tantrum-throwing demographics, we should put it in a t-shirt and from that, allege how progressive we are.

[HumanityExperiment]

13. ...marginalizing...

thinking that's the best route to take eh?

again, HRC historic unfavorables... seems her supporters embrace growing their unfavorables too.. how quaint

[PeaceNikki]

4. I did know that.

[brush]

6. The goal of the site is to help elect Democrats . . .

keeping the in-fighting going here when we need to move to battling Trump is counterproductive for the general election.

Sanders put up a good fight but he is the runner-up.

Skinner is being generous as the primary season is effectively over when the NJ polls close in 6 days. He's added an extra week to decompose.

Time to face the music.

[Garrett78]

11. I did, and it does point to an inconsistency in a popular argument here at DU.

People argue that because superdelegates can switch, Clinton has to be at 2383 via pledged delegates alone to be considered the nominee. But pledged delegates can also switch. So, it really doesn't matter how that 2383 number is arrived at.

[azurnoir]

14. so you're saying that the Democratic party is allowing these delegates to redeem themselves ?

Is this another 'come to heel for Hillary" or else declaration?

[geek tragedy]

16. They've done nothing wrong so there's no need for them to 'redeem' themslves whatsoever.

Clinton's going to be the nominee, because she won the most votes, and the most delegates.

That's how elections work.

There's no "but birds like him" exception

[azurnoir]

17. oh so they're innocent of actual wrongdoing were they duped or forced or what?

[geek tragedy]

18. it's not a moral transgression to disagree with you.

perhaps you're confused on that point.

[Joob]

20. While true we choose pledged delegates DURING the election, not Super delegates.

Nobody would really care about Super delegates if we got to choose them during the election because they would definitely reflect the people.

Still, good to know those pledged delegates are not bound.