I'm tired of being told I need to get behind the "supposed" nominee

[ybbor]

Last edited Thu Jun 2, 2016, 03:24 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm tired of hearing if Trump wins, it's my fault.

I'm tired of being hounded for following a true progressive.

I'm tired of her followers replying to factual arguments with "sad".

I'm tired of it all.

But most of all, I'm am terribly frightened.

If HRC is the nominee, I have a feeling she will lose.

I live in Michigan, a swing state, and I know of no one who will vote for her. They may vote against Trump, but they will not be voting for her. That bodes poorly for her chances to win Michigan.

Outside of my extremely liberal town of Ann Arbor, Trump has a very strong following. I am almost sure he will win Michigan.

The saddest part of all is that we have a candidate who will easily win if given a chance.

I know many people who are planning on voting third party or leaving the president vote open, or worse yet, staying home.

Personally, I am torn. If HRC is the nominee, do I hold my nose and wear a puke bag and vote for her, or do I vote third party? I think it is so fucked up that our "greatest" democracy in the world only offers two real choices. Or to quote Jesse Ventura, our country is so great, we offer one more choice than the Soviet Union did.

I think after this clustefuck of an election that we need to open our choices up further. I believe that the Democratic Party of yore is gone. The name my remain, but the core values have changed. It resembles the GOP from the late 70s to early 80s. That is not the party I want to have representing me.

So in closing, I'm just really tired of what is going on in our once great nation.

I think I'll sit down and rest.

[LexVegas]

1. ...

[The Wielding Truth]

133. The tears I shed are for a pandering campaign that has little spark

and less reform than we need to actually make the changes that will lead us into a future that is progressive enough to improve our country and our world.

I will, if I have to vote for Hillary, but we really need Bernie's platform of reform and lead the movement of a major change.I want the democratic party to win this election because if they don't the country will fall completely in the hands of the infantile Republican Party.

That is truly frightening!

[Dem2]

2. Waah

I don't think anybody's forcing you to participate.

[tonyt53]

31. Bingo

[panader0]

166. That's the way to sway Bernie supporters! Tell them not to participate. DUMB.

[ybbor]

169. Exactly

There is only one post that offers reasons to vote for her other than "not Trump", and I had to ask for a reason. Mostly replies like above. Very convincing.

[Dem2]

173. Funny how some stubborn Bernie voters can't seem to get enough of being convinced

Would you like me to wash your feet as well...?

[1StrongBlackMan]

178. I'm sorry ...

you live in a swing state, that you think doesn't bode well for HRC, and Not trump is not enough ... Such a vote might not make you "feel" good; but, be a trump presidency WILL make your life worse.

[Dem2]

172. Lol, is that your response to voters saying "the heck with your whiny blackmail posts, you gonna...

participate or whine"?

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I share so many of your feelings and concerns! *hugs*

[HERVEPA]

4. Sounds like an attack of the vapors. Relax. Vote for Hillary. She isn't great, but 1000 times

better than the alternative. Oh, and Trump is not going to come close to winning Michigan in any case.

[Hiraeth]

10. relax ... lol

[Fawke Em]

23. No, she's really not thousands of times better.

They both suck.

And they both will further hurt the middle class.

[redstateblues]

53. Remember "Not a dimes worth of difference"?

Sounds like a Nader voter-Equivocating Trump and Clinton is ignoring their huge differences -it makes you sound uninformed. Giving the White House and the Supreme Court to the Republicans? I don't know if you have really thought this thing through.

[Lizzie Poppet]

46. "attack of the vapors" Yeah, that wasn't condescending or anything.

Bye, Felicia.

Thankfully, there seems to be no Ignore list limit.

[ybbor]

62. Thanks for sticking up for me

I really didn't expect much less. Of all the HRC supporters replies, not a single one trying to convince me why she deserves my vote. Mostly, "see ya", "wash", "who cares", etc. Pretty much making my point for me.

[Shadowflash]

107. Haha!

'' Vote for Hillary. She isn't great , but 1000 times better than the alternative.''


I feel all fired up and tingly inside, already!

[pengu]

153. 1000 times zero is zero

[MineralMan]

5. Well, after you rest, I hope you think it over

and decide to vote for the Democratic candidate. I'm sure that will benefit you more than any other action or inaction you might take.

[Fawke Em]

24. Hillary will NEVER benefit me.

I'm not rich enough for her to care.

I know. I know. I'll be taking a break from here soon - until November when she loses or until mid-summer when she's indicted.

[HERVEPA]

37. All about you I guess. Screw the non-rich women who can't afford to travel for their abortion

after Trump SC overturns Roe v. Wade.
Same for those who might not be able to get any medical insurance.
Screw LGTBQ folks whose rights will diminish with Trump.
Because, of course, it's all about you. Grow the fuck up.

And I'm a Bernie fan who thinks he's 10 times better than Hillary!

[PeaceNikki]

159. Thank you. This is my biggest beef with the BoBs. "what's in it for *meeeeeee*?"

[Fawke Em]

182. All about you, I guess. Screw our children who can never find good-paying jobs

after Clinton completes the fait complet on the working class.

And, I'm a Democrat. Shush...

[HERVEPA]

186. Well, I have kids, who are doing OK, happily and luckily.

But the obvious thing is that in this regard kids will be no better or worse than Trump, but in the other things I mention we will all definitely be much worse.

[Doctor_J]

191. hillary said she's open to curbs on reproductive rights

healthcare will get more expensive if she becomes president. the insurance industry will never in a million years let heritage care be repealed.

your argument is passionate but based on false premises

[HERVEPA]

192. Just a totally bogus post.

She talked about late third trimester where the health of the mother is not an issue.
She has always been a staunch defender of abortion rights.
Try again

[auntpurl]

118. Do Supreme Court decisions not affect your life in any way?

Are you a woman? Do you know any minorities or LGBT people? Or are you yourself a minority or LGBT person?

[Agnosticsherbet]

6. This is should help with the fear.... "Fear is the Mind Killer."

[saidsimplesimon]

7. ybbor, good to hear a voice from my old haunts, A2.

I now live in AZ, home of the pink underwear criminal county sheriff.

So in closing, I'm just really tired of what is going on in our once great nation.

I think I'll sit down and rest.

[ybbor]

89. Beautiful day here in ol' tree town

Used to visit AZ a lot when living in CO. Good times.

[NCTraveler]

8. Why do people blow up their own arguments with lines like this?

"I live in Michigan, a swing state, and I know of no one who will vote for her."

[ybbor]

14. What is so wrong about stating the truth?

There may be people I know who will vote for her, but not one has said as much. However, I have heard dozens say there is now way they will vote for her, not vote for Trump, but not vote for her.

But you know better than me, I guess.

[NCTraveler]

15. I just don't get it. That line destroys any argument you made.

I would like to think you can figure it out why.

[redstateblues]

57. Everybody I knew at the time voted for McGovern

How is it possible he lost?

[NCTraveler]

58. I'm telling you. lol. I just don't get it. nt.

[rateyes]

78. That's right. You don't get it.

[NCTraveler]

114. Thanks for the confirmation.

[rateyes]

115. My pleasure.

[geek tragedy]

9. you aren't that worried about a Donald Trump presidency if you are on the fence on whether

to vote to keep him out of the White House.


"I'm afraid she'll lose but I probably won't vote for her."


your concern is duly noted

[Ned_Devine]

54. Do you just copy and paste this response?

Give it a rest already. Many of us are sick of your chastising tone. In fact, if you read the OP, it's this very type of post the person is sick of.

[geek tragedy]

63. simple solution: people stop saying they refuse to vote for the party's nominee against

Donald Trump, and they stop getting grief at DEMOCRATICunderground.com

there are many, many, many places on the Internet where those who aren't voting for the Democratic nominee can proclaim their principled stand and not violate the community standards and Terms Of Service. This isn't one of them.

[Ned_Devine]

65. She's not the nominee

[geek tragedy]

69. in another 7 days she will be the presumptive nominee, and the official winner of the primary voting

so I guess technically we are getting ahead of ourselves by discussing what we know will happen when it hasn't physically happened yet.

[Ned_Devine]

73. By "we" you mean yourself

Bernie is going to do very well in the final states and will likely eclipse her in delegates. Then it will go to the convention where the super delegates will have to choose between a candidate that has brought in millions of new democratic voters or someone under criminal investigation by the FBI.

[geek tragedy]

82. "Bernie is going to do very well in the final states and will likely eclipse her in delegates."

Clinton is up by 270 pledged delegates. There are a grand total of 763 delegates at stake in the voting.

That means Sanders would have to win by 35.5% in each and every state. In other words, he'd have to win 68-32 not only in small caucus states, but also California and New Jersey--two states where he has not lead in a single poll.

Let's say there's a Michigan-style polling error and he wins every state by 20 points.

If Sanders wins 60-40 in all remaining states, including California and New Jersey, he'd still be behind by 120 delegates. And she's still the nominee.

Long story short, math disagrees with your prediction.

She's going to be the nominee. He can't win.

[sharp_stick]

94. Math is hard I get it

but damn that's some fancy magical thinking you've got going in this post.

[Ned_Devine]

110. Glad you liked it :)

[TwilightZone]

167. "likely eclipse her in delegates"

Not if you understand anything about math.

[ybbor]

66. First of all learn how to quote someone

You use quotes when quoting exactly what someone wrote. I did not write what you quoted.

Secondly, I edited my post to say "I have a feeling she'll lose".

I am more frightened that she will be the nominee.

[geek tragedy]

67. she will be the nominee. you'll have to act accordingly I guess, nt

[firebrand80]

11. Stopping Trump is a moral imperative nt

[pangaia]

87. What Bernie is fighting for is MORE of a moral imperative.

[ybbor]

117. You hit that on the head!

It really is our country's future I'm frightened about. I feel that although HRC may be the lesser of two evils, she still is very capable of doing some major damage. I am not a fan of her track record.

[pangaia]

119. I have always felt that.

The only time in my life that we have a candidate who not only SEES the really big problem, but admits it and tells the world about it. Perhaps RFK.....

I have doubts that all Clinton supporters understand this; understand why Bernie, and by extension we, will not back down, or understand why many of his supporters are either reluctant to vote for Clinton or refuse to.

At some point, one must say STOP!!!

[LonePirate]

138. Except Bernie has lost his race. It's time for all but 6 states and DC to move to the next race.

[pangaia]

139. You don't get it. You just......don't.....get......it.

Whew.....it's exxhasperaating....

[LonePirate]

141. The party will have a presumptive nominee once the polls close in NJ.

You're the one who simply does not get it.

[pangaia]

142. We are talking on two totally different planes here, two different levels,

to different depths, two different languages.

It's like the difference between the notes on the page and the actual music.

[LonePirate]

143. I agree. I'm arguing from a point of reality and you're arguing from a point of fantasy.

Two levels indeed.

Alternatively, I'm arguing about the general election and you're arguing about the primary election which is effectively settled.

[BzaDem]

12. You can't have it both ways. If you are terrified of her losing, then why would you consider

voting against her?

[ybbor]

16. Because she doesn't represent me at all

I wouldn't be voting against her, if that is my choice, I would be voting for someone who better represents my values.

Voting the lesser of two evils still gets you evil.

[BzaDem]

17. So then I guess you aren't so terrified of her losing, after all? n/t

[Surya Gayatri]

21. Terrified, schmerrified...they can't be trembling in their boots

or paralyzed with fear, and then say they'll abstain or vote 3rd party.

[Fawke Em]

25. I'm terrified of both.

How about that?

[Surya Gayatri]

36. Then, there would appear to be a flaw in your hierarchy of priorities, IMHO.

You might want to re-examine your logical system or lack thereof.

[Ned_Devine]

55. Or, maybe you could re-examine yours

See how that works?

[Surya Gayatri]

59. Not me who ludicrously said they're equally terrified of Clinton and Trump.

I know where my priorities lie. Re-examine? No, thanks.

[ybbor]

70. I've edited the OP

From "afraid she will lose" to "I have a feeling she will lose".

[MFM008]

80. Then please vote for whomever

[Faux pas]

13. Write In

is our weapon of CHOICE.

[sufrommich]

18. I live in Michigan too. I don't know one person who

is sitting out this election and refusing to vote for Hillary. Not one.

[IdaBriggs]

39. I live in SE Michigan. I know one couple supporting her.

Everyone else is either Bernie, Trump or 3rd Party Convert.

I did meet one older Hillary supporter at the library, so there is another one. (I don't know her, tho.)

I am in West Bloomfield. I did GOTV for Brenda Lawrence and Gary Peters. I am opposed to both Trump and Hillary; Hillary lost me totally over the email and server stuff in mid-March. Prior to that I just disliked her due to "dynasty" and "policy" concerns; your dig line picture came from one of my posts before I knew about her pathological lying problem. I cannot abide a liar.

[sufrommich]

40. And I live in the western suburbs,grew up in Westland,

everybody I know in the blue collar burbs around here and downriver wouldn't dream of letting Trump in the White House if they can help it. Maybe the citizens of tony West Bloomfield don't have as much to lose by throwing the U.S. into chaos.

[IdaBriggs]

44. I grew up in Waterford, and have relationships all over the state.

I have also lived in Southfield, Warren and lots of time in Pontiac, while my husband is from Livonia. The auto industry put the roof over our heads while we were growing up, and that hasn't changed currently. Kindly refrain from the insults; no one wants Trump but the current discussion is about Hillary. Him being BAD doesn't make her GOOD.

[marlakay]

19. Feeling exactly the same

I go back and forth on what I am going to do.

Part of me thinks I fear a Trump president, while she makes me angry.

I think I am the maddest at the media for manipulating this whole mess and encouraging Trump and Hillary and refusing to barely mention Bernie or when they did it was not factual it was negative and someone's opinion.

I am angry at the democrat party and how right wing it has become and I plan to leave it after this election, but feel frustrated about that because all the other parties are so marginalized and don't have a hope of winning.

I am glad Bernie got the youth involved because I am tired and politics is just raising my blood pressure.

[VOX]

33. Please don't use the "Democrat Party" (sic) slur...

It's the Democratic Party, not "Democrat Party," which is strictly a right-wing dog whistle, code to signal one's anti-Democratic Party leanings.

Thank you.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

35. it used to be the democratic party - there, fixed it for you

[Karma13612]

174. +1000

[Buzz cook]

20. I don't care

Vote for who ever you want. But please keep your existential angst to yourself.

[YouDig]

22. You say you're terrified of Trump (me too), but then might not vote for HRC if she's the nominee.

I really don't understand that. Sure, bring the puke bag, if there's only way to stop Trump, that is the way to go.

[Mike__M]

26. I'd just ask myself:

Who benefits from my fear?
Is that where I want to put my support?

[ucrdem]

27. Let's see, you're terribly afraid she'll lose, but you wonder if you should vote for her.

Do I have that right?

[ybbor]

71. Edited OP

From "afraid she will lose" to "I have a feeling she will lose".

Poor choice of words.

[ucrdem]

75. Thank you.

I don't want to rub it in, but living in a swing state gives you a special responsibility set the tone as it were. It isn't easy to lose as all of us remember from 2004, and every race is an important one, but the prospect of Trump is no longer a joke as much as he might seem like one.


.................
ETA okay I just checked and it looks like MI is a safe blue state but in this election anything can happen.

[ybbor]

85. Agreed regarding Trump

But voting against him and not for a person who I feel represents me is getting really old.

I have yet to hear ONE person respond as why she DESERVES my vote. Not one. Only we can't afford Trump, or worse yet, who cares we don't need you.

HRC represents so many things I loathe: warmongering, horrible decisions, pro-business aka Wall St., anti-union, selective memory, or worse yet, lying.

Why does she deserve my vote? Even the SCOTUS picks will most likely benefit the things above, and she can see restrictions on some abortion procedures.

We need another party, or two if the GOP continues on their path of self-destruction, not that they'd ever see my vote. Not this cycle, but soon.

[ucrdem]

95. Hillary is a lot of things because she's tuned to the zeitgeist.

When she was a Senator from NY, home of Wall Street and ground zero, she focused on national security. But before that she was first lady and that's the Hillary she's been running as this election, and she was a pretty good Democrat at the time, as was Bill, though not perfect. Once the primaries are over you'll start hearing things you like I can just about guarantee it.

[ybbor]

98. Not much there

But I'll take it under consideration. Thx

P.S. Is that ucrdem UC Riverside? Always wondered.

[ucrdem]

99. Bingo.

[ybbor]

109. Check out the big brain on Brad

Well actually, ybbor.

[pengu]

154. She pressed for votes for welfare reform

Don't give me this good first lady crap.

[ucrdem]

163. Too simple.

Sure that looks great in a Twitter graphic, but "welfare reform" covers a lot of territory, and the devil is in the details. And before you start posting CounterPunch links please consider starting a new thread to do it as it's going to require a lot of information.

[jzodda]

28. You hold your nose and do the right thing

If for no other reason than the Supreme Court. We really need a majority on there just to protect Obama's executive orders.

Also Trump is a menace. A national nightmare and disgrace. The World is laughing at us, as usual.

[Bjornsdotter]

29. And the right thing is

...everyone's choice to make their own decision.

I agree, the world is laughing I hear it every day as I speak with our international customers. However they don't like Hillary any better than Trump.

[geek tragedy]

45. The world vastly prefers Clinton to Trump. Sorry your #berniefacts are not true

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/18/donald-trump-top-pick-us-president-russia/

[Bjornsdotter]

48. Reading comprehension not your forte

I believe I wrote "I agree, the world is laughing I hear it every day as I speak with our international customers. However they don't like Hillary any better than Trump."

I hear it every single day. So yes my experience is true.

[geek tragedy]

50. you were trying to pass off your anecdotal account as evidence of

how the rest of the world thinks.

You failed.

[Bjornsdotter]

56. The people I deal with

....do not like Hillary or Donald.

Fact.

[geek tragedy]

61. that is not evidence of anything. also a fact. nt

[Bjornsdotter]

103. Yes it is

....regardless of your opinion.

You can't change the fact that many people overseas do not like Hillary or Donald. You may want to take a peek at how the Democrats Abroad voted.

[geek tragedy]

105. The vast majority prefer Clinton to Trump. That is a fact.

Your anecdotes are really not proof of anything.

[Bjornsdotter]

111. Sounds like an opinion to me.

...but then your opinions are facts.



If you are referring to Hillary vs Obama that has not been my experience. If you are referring to Bill vs Obama...agreed.

[geek tragedy]

112. was referring to Clinton vs Trump, for which there is solid empirical support nt

[Bjornsdotter]

116. Democrats Abroad

...support neither Clinton or Trump.

[auntpurl]

123. See my post 121.

[geek tragedy]

135. Democrats abroad are Americans. A very small subset of Americans.

And it's not Bernie vs Hillary vs Trump.

First it was Bernie vs Hillary.

Now it's Hillary vs Trump.

[Bjornsdotter]

149. Not yet...

Yes, they are....however they voted for Bernie. These are people who are living with universal healthcare and affordable higher education. It appears that they think that is the way to go.

[geek tragedy]

152. yeah, because Hillary voters totally hate the idea of universal healthcare

and affordable higher education.



(for the record, recognizing that things need to be paid for with an accurate accounting doesn't mean people oppose those things)

[auntpurl]

121. Democrats Abroad represents only a tiny percentage of overseas voters.

The vast majority of expats vote by mail in their own home states. Like me - I live in the UK and vote in my home state of PA. Only Democrats who choose to participate in Democrats Abroad vote with them. Fewer than 35,000 votes were cast with DA this primary cycle. It is not representative of anything.

[Bjornsdotter]

148. Nice to know that

...their votes don't count either.

I stand by my original comment.....Everyday I speak with people internationally who dislike both Hillary & Donald. They make it a point to tell me.

[geek tragedy]

151. and Pauline Kael didn't know anyone who voted for Nixon. nt

[Bjornsdotter]

156. I'm sorry, I don't know that reference

...so I don't follow.

Do you think that everyone (100%) overseas is for Hillary? I'm really not sure why you find it so hard to believe that people would discuss Hillary, Donald, and their dislike for both. I discuss some of the political issues going on in their respective countries also.

They happen to have a lot of questions regarding how Americans select their candidates and the system here as it is different.

Mostly they ask if I know anyone who is supporting Donald and why they would do that. I have explained that one a lot.

[geek tragedy]

157. Pauline Kael couldn't understand how Nixon beat McGovern

because she didn't know anyone who voted for Nixon.

[Dems to Win]

30. I'll offer you my cynical version of 'hope'

I'm certain Hillary will win in the fall, assuming the FBI doesn't intervene and she's actually on the ballot in November.

What we are seeing is Reality TV, directed by Bill Clinton, who talked with Donald Trump prior to Trump's entering the race and reportedly encouraged him to get into it. Bill and Donny are working together to elect Hillary.

If Hillary is nominated and we really do have a Trump-Clinton race, I'm going to try to develop new hobbies and give up on following presidential politics. I hate reality TV, and I'm convinced that's all a Clinton-Trump race will be -- a reality TV show that ends with Hillary in the White House.

The more outrageous Trump is, the more he pushes people, who 2 years ago would have said they would NEVER vote for Hillary, into voting for her in the fall. It's the only way she can plausibly win, so that's the theater show Bill and Donald are producing.

I'm also convinced that the powers that rig the voting machines will do so on Hillary's behalf. She's the Establishment choice, by far. She's the one who will keep the Military Industrial Complex and Wall Street rolling along as usual, lining the pockets of the rich and powerful. The outcome is not in doubt.

I'm so certain of my cynical views that if Hillary actually becomes the nominee, it won't be worth paying attention anymore.



#StillSanders

Save Us, California!

[ybbor]

161. Wow!

This is very interesting, and so very plausible. Hmm...

[ALittleBirdie]

184. But the charade may not work as they planned

Then everybody will be unhappy, including President Trump whose personal houses and buildings are bigger than the White House.

[bvf]

32. Reminds me of something

I'll never forget.

Years ago, when the Smothers Brothers had their TV show (during the Johnson Administration, when the Viet Nam war escalation was raging), Dick Smothers said, "Let's all get behind President Johnston*--and PUSH!"

CBS didn't much care for that, or much else they got away with.


* Yes, they regularly referred to him as "Johnston." Sort of a tweak, I guess.

[ybbor]

49. I barely remember the Smothers Brothers show

But do remember Rowan and Martin's Laugh In. Another show not afraid to twist some screws.

[bvf]

92. Not to drift here,

but now that you mention it, it might have actually been on Laugh In, since I vaguely recall the comment (correction: it was Tommy Smothers) being made during a joke-wall segment. Tommy Smothers may have been doing a cameo.

Funny how details from distant memory sometimes seem to conflate. I had to check to confirm that Laugh In premiered while LBJ was still in office, so it may well have been on that show.

Yes, Laugh In got away with a lot, too. I still marvel at the fact they got Nixon to cameo with a befuddled "Sock it to me."

/OT

[taught_me_patience]

34. Tired and scared is a bad way to go through life

It clouds you from making good decisions...and dooming you to make repeat mistakes.

[ybbor]

74. Agreed

Not really too afraid of anything. Live life to the fullest everyday, but still have this horrible addiction to this politics thing. I have found that presidential elections do not affect my daily life too often.

Currently, trying to fix my ailing back. Caused from living life so fully.

Thanks for the concern.

Peace!

[felix_numinous]

38. Stadiums full of people

hundreds of thousands of supporters who agree with Bernie Sanders, people registering in record numbers, enthusiasm like we have not seen in years.

The belief that all of these people will suddenly TURN 180 DEGREES around to allow the destruction of the planet and people to continue is PURE DELUSION. To even consider this is to demonstrate a PROFOUND misunderstanding of human nature.

[MoonRiver]

93. All those "stadium people" must not be voting,

cause Hillary has 3 million more popular votes than Bernie.

[pengu]

155. In a crooked primary

[MoonRiver]

158. Poor Bernie

It's always "crooked" when he doesn't get his way.

[pengu]

183. It's crooked when it's crooked

[MoonRiver]

188. Not according to Bernie and his minions!

[MohRokTah]

41. Well,... bye

[ybbor]

51. How does it go again?

Another one of your well reasoned and thoughtful replies we have grown to love.

Thanks for the list of reasons why your candidate is worth voting for.

Bye

[MohRokTah]

77. Goes more like this:

The wall of 100 ROFLs signifying the hilarity of what I am responding to.

[panader0]

170. Another reach out to Sanders supporters?

You HRC sycophants are slamming the door on voters you need. DUMB.

[MoonRiver]

160. "We have GROW to love."?

English 101 is your friend.

Oh, and do you really think we care who you vote for? If so X1000 (short cut for smart people).

[seabeyond]

42. You do not have to do shit. Don't vote, write in, vote for Trump. Your constitutional right.

But you want to do what you want, without having any responsibility in choices. Life simply does not work that way. Otherwise, who cares.

[CorkySt.Clair]

43. So don't?

Who cares about your microdrama.

[Sheepshank]

47. I'm tired of people being tired over something that has never been required of them

So much drama, so misdirected.

This is almost better than the gbcw posts.

[auntpurl]

124. Oh no, I love the GBCW posts!

They are my favourites. I don't gloat and I don't kick corpses (I never reply to them), but I love reading them. It reminds me of when I was young and thought I was the center of the universe. So dramatic!

[Skinner]

52. You're afraid she might lose, but you aren't sure if you are even going to vote for her.

If you don't vote for her, then I think it's safe to infer that you aren't particularly concerned whether she loses.

[ybbor]

60. That was a poor choice of words

On edit I have changed it to "I feel like she will lose".

Personally, I'm not really afraid at all of that. In reality we may need to go into the dark abyss before our country is shaken out of the fucked up sate of affairs we find ourselves in at the moment.

As I said, I'm unsure of what I will do should she be the nominee come November. I have a young daughter, so the SCOTUS matter does concern me. On that note, I am note sure I will be all that happy with HRC's choices for the highest court either. She has said she could see some restrictions to abortion as being palatable. Their pro-business, anti-labor decisions will probably run unchecked with her appointments. And she will do nothing for improving upon the ACA, as it would hurt her pharma and for-profit health insurance industry cronies.

So am I afraid if she loses, not really. But I do think it is very possible. I just see nothing changing for the better if she wins, possibly even continuing to get slowly worse.

Thanks for making me see that poor choice of wording.

[geek tragedy]

86. Is there a chance you'd prefer a Trump victory to a Clinton victory? nt

[auntpurl]

126. "I am not sure I will be all that happy with HRC's choices" for the SC

I can guarantee you you will not be AT ALL happy with Trump's choices. So for the same of women, minorities, LGBT, and your own young daughter, think of the SC.

Or don't. It's your vote.

[MyNameGoesHere]

64. I recommend you sleep until January 2017

it will cure your tiredness.

[ybbor]

68. Possibly

But what a nightmare to awaken to when I do.

There are really only two outcomes that will make me happy: Bernie has just been inaugurated as president, or I have hit the Powerball, and I will now be able to stash my money off shore and reap the benefits of the other two choices winning.

[KauaiK]

72. This post describes me to a "T".

The DNC is worried that Sander's is another McGovern? They should worry that Clinton is a loser when her campaign is described as death march.

[ybbor]

76. I'm sorry about that

But on a lighter note, I lived on Maui for a bit and got a chance to visit Hanalei for a week. Beautiful place. This is all on the assumption you reside on Kauai.

[KauaiK]

147. I never take for granted that I am lucky enough to live on Kauai

I'm glad you enjoyed your visit. It is a beautiful place.

Too bad Monsanto, Dow, etc are contaminating it (and all the islands) with their chemicals. Because Hawaii is 2000+ miles from any other land mass, the chemical companies its ideal for testing their poisons. We get tons of it dumped monthly and they don't even want to disclose WHAT they are spraying. Their GMO seeds are cross pollinating with and killing native species. The run-off from the spraying is killing the reefs on the west side of Kauai.

The Kauai Mayor and most state politicians are in the back pocket of Monsanto et al via huge donations. Oh surprise. One of the reasons I can't support HRC is her absolute support of Monsanto. Even Mexico has banned the use of Monsanto products.

[Scuba]

79. I live in Wisconsin. ..

... I see lots of Bernie yard signs, a few Trump signs and zero Hillary signs.

Hillary is destroying our party.

[ybbor]

91. That's how it is around here

She has a very underground following I guess.

[Blue_Tires]

81. Hey, I'm fucking sick and tired of being called "establishment"...

I'm sick and tired of being told there's something "wrong" with black voters who don't support Sanders... I'm sick and tired of Berniestans pledging to vote for Trump... I can go on, but you get the point...


It's just the cost of DUing during primary season...

[ybbor]

96. I'm sorry that you too are suffering from similar ailments

I will offer an apology if I have done anything of the sort.

I hope you are feeling better soon.

[Blue_Tires]

127. No apology necessary...

I'll deal with the offenders in my own way.

[Justice]

125. Amen

[HassleCat]

83. I know Democrats who are balking at voting for her.

I'm thinking they will hold their noses and vote against Trump when the time comes, but right now they're saying she lacks honesty, does not stand for anything unless she tests its popularity, etc. The thing is, if they dislike her for those reasons, they must HATE Trump. He's so shifty and deceitful he raises it to an art form.

[MoonRiver]

84. You has a sad?

So sorry.

[Attorney in Texas]

88. Democrats are on track for breaking low turnout records. It will look like a mid-term race. We need

to put all of our efforts into the Senate races in New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Colorado, Illinois, and Ohio.

[TwilightZone]

168. Source?

Primary turnout and GE turnout are two different things.

[sharp_stick]

90. I'm tired about people whining

about how sad it is that everyone doesn't feel the same way they do.

Anybody that votes 3rd party when Donald Trump is the Republican nominee is a true piece of shit.

[bvf]

100. Notice anything

internally inconsistent in your post there?

It isn't difficult to see. In fact, it fairly screams for attention.

[ybbor]

101. Thank you for your reply

It was very well stated, offered a very reasoned stance and was thought provoking.

Your contribution to this thread is invaluable.

[sharp_stick]

102. You're more than welcome

I strive to reply in the same vein as offered in the original post.

[lmbradford]

171. Anybody who thinks another person is a piece of shit...

Just because they don't agree with them about their vote, is a piece of shit.

My vote is mine and you don't get to tell me who to vote for (or against)

[sharp_stick]

177. It's about more than that

The piece of shit is a dirtbag that will allow a dangerous narcissist like Trump to take power because their favorite candidate lost a nomination he and presumably his supporters agreed to take part in.

Fuck them... Piece of shit is light compared to what they should be referred to.

I would never tell you who you have to vote for. just as you can't tell me what to think of anyone following that vote.

[lmbradford]

179. I'm not the one allowing Trump to do anything

That would be people who vote for Hillary knowing that she doesn't do well in head to head match ups with Trump. Don't blame me for your vote. That's on you. I'm only responsible for my own vote and my conscience. I have never been given a POLICY reason to vote for her. I'm a University professor so it important that you use facts that are backed up with evidence.

She is a woman. So am I, who cares.
Past experience. That works against her, not for her. The worst judgement I've ever seen.
But but but Trump.....

none of those work for me.

[Aerows]

97. I left tired

run down in the road, stinking for two days in the hot sun with flies on the bloated carcass.

If Hillary represents being a Democrat, then I am going to have to re-evaluate my political associations.

I'm not a Democrat-in-name-only kind of person.

[ybbor]

122. Well said Aerows

And so dramatically done so at that.

[RelativelyJones]

104. Tnen don't vote

Or vote Green, or write in Sanders, or vote Trump. Nobody is going to kiss your behind for your vote which is not going to appear for the Dem nominee anyway. The rest of us have our eyes on the prize. We all have to live with the outcome.

[djean111]

113. And there is the problem - a Hillary presidency is no fucking prize, to many of us.

So don't throw around "the rest of us". You only speak for yourself and/or people you know.

[rbrnmw]

190. So Trump will be much better?

[stillwaiting]

136. Jesus Christ. If you really care about HRC winning don't do this.

Such a stupid strategy for dealing with the discontent. It will make things worse I promise, and SO many people are acting this way.

[CrowCityDem]

106. Looking at how fractious other countries are, politically, two choices is the right number.

[BeyondGeography]

108. I supported Kennedy, Hart, Jackson, Brown, Bradley and Clark

Then I voted for the nominee, who I may have previously not cared for very much because they were light years better than Reagan and the two Bushes. Now the alternative is even worse, a Trump presidency, and some people on the left still want a hug in return for their vote.

I get it, you're in love with Bernie. Even if you don't get over, most people will.

[auntpurl]

130. I agree completely with this post.

I genuinely don't understand the hand wringing. It's DONALD TRUMP. He's a CRAZY PERSON. Unhinged! With the nuclear codes! For god's sake, Hillary isn't far enough left for you so you're going to contribute to subjecting the country, women, minorities, LGBT, and the disabled to outright ABUSE because you are so pure? Give me a break!

I need to get off DU for tonight. My ability to remain civil is in jeopardy.

[SidDithers]

120. O. K. ...nt

Sid

[still_one]

128. Is it June 16th yet?

[B Calm]

187. Why don't you pretend it is and ignore GDP and go to GD and attack Trump? Maybe you know

this primary is not over?

[Jack Bone]

129. Mike Malloy is calling it.."anticipointment"

I feel the same way...

[randome]

131. We're already tired of hearing how tired you are.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[BootinUp]

132. And she may lose the type of area and demographic you point to.

But nationally, and electoral wise, it looks very good for her. If your problem is that you can't wave a Hillary flag around where you live without catching a lot of flack, I can understand that, very familiar with that. But that should not influence your vote.

[leveymg]

134. To paraphrase Ventura- America is better than Russia. We get to choose who starts the next war.

[LonePirate]

137. Sounds like the OP is tired of hearing the truth.

[Triana]

140. "we have a candidate who will easily win if given a chance"

He won't be.

And it's not just some voters (those whose registration wasn't arbitrarily changed or who weren't removed from the rolls for no apparent reason without notice) who don't want Sanders.

It's ALL of the establishment Democrats in and outside of Washington, every corporation in existence - particularly the tax-dodging ones, Wall St., and the corporate owned media.

The reason some voters are supporting an establishment candidate is because of the propaganda put out by all of the above against him. The Owners don't want Sanders. They pulled out all the stops, put out all the propaganda and smears they could invent and the had all of the US media - even the supposedly "liberal" network, helping them.

Who does Sanders have? He has MILLIONS of PEOPLE (not powerful people with any position or money - just regular people - working people, poor and middle class people) for him. And they have carried him a LONG way. This is THEIR revolution. And it's well-justified.

But The Owners - of our economy and our government - and the establishment which protects their interests exclusively - don't want him.

And if that means Trump is President, they don't care. Because they have lots of power and money and they'll survive just fine regardless.

But the rest of us won't. THE PEOPLE - and any party or candidate that they have to represent them - will not be part of the picture going forward. They're pretty much not now, and that's the problem. Sanders has offered a way - a solution - a revolution - to return our gov't to one that works for PEOPLE - and not just a few wealthy or powerful ones at the top.

What are US voters going to do? Buy the propaganda put against them by The Owners and the powerful and vote against their own best interests. Like they always do. Which is how we got here...and yet they still don't get it.

It's the most fascinating yet frustrating thing I've ever seen. An entire country of middle class and poor people, working, regular folk continually stabbing themselves in the back over and over and over -- until their own kids and the planet haven't got a snowball's chance in Hell of a decent life and maybe not even survival.

And STILL what do they do? Vote for the machetes again.

How stupid is that?

Wow. JUST. WOW.

[randome]

146. "Buy the propaganda"? "THE PEOPLE"?

Well, let me see if I have this right: the people have voted for Clinton over Sanders. And you think the 12 million voters who voted for her have all fallen prey to "the propaganda"?

I mean, what's more likely? That you're smarter than 12 million people? Or that you may have misjudged the situation?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[barrow-wight]

144. Two weeks.

[Beacool]

145. I'm beyond tired of the whining and moaning of some people.

In 2008, Hillary's supporters were told to "get over it" (I still remember Pelosi saying those exact words), most of us did just that because the alternative was worse.

Come November, there will only be two candidates who will have a realistic chance to become president: Hillary and Trump.

The choice should be crystal clear for anyone who is not a conservative, or even a moderate Republican.

We have a lot of work to do before election day. So, people either need to join the fight to stop the barbarians at the gate, or they can get the hell out of the way.

[ybbor]

150. You are all such a welcoming bunch

Why haven't I already joined? (Oh yeah, I tried and was immediately banned)

Just do it, damn it!

That should be our slogan.

Or, "Quit your fucking whining and do as I say"

Either one would look good on t-shirts and bumper stickers.

I'm leaning in favor of the second, we could use her H in whining. What do you think?

[Beacool]

175. I have never tried to force anyone to vote for a specific person.

But I would think that it's self evident that given the two realistic choices that we have in November that Hillary is hands down better equipped to handle the job of president than Trump.

Look, I know how much it hurts being on the losing end. Been there, done that in 2008. After the primaries were over, I couldn't stand the sight of Obama, but that's life. We don't get everything we want when we want it. I just had to imagine McCain and Palin as president and VP to convince me that Obama was the better choice. I think that reasonable people will come to the same conclusion this year. Particularly after the primaries are over and Sanders rallies his supporters to vote for the nominee.

[joshcryer]

162. I'm tired of posts like this.

Defeatist bullshit that says Trump has a chance.

[ybbor]

164. Then don't click

And don't respond.

Easy solution.

[joshcryer]

165. I had to read the title.

Just to browse the forum... Same shit different day.

[The_Casual_Observer]

176. I doubt that anyone would waste their time trying

To convince you of anything.

[Sparkly]

180. I'm tired of "I'm tired of" threads.

Take a nap.

I'm going to bed.

[rock]

181. I really thought you were going to say

But most of all, I'm am terribly frightened.
If HRC is the nominee, I have a feeling she will WIN.

Now then you say,"... our 'greatest' democracy in the world only offers two real choices." True. It is a carefully crafted system that only offers one of two practical choices. Or as I have put it before, "We have the minimum number of choices which is plural. They would prefer to offer us only one but then they would be found out pretty quickly!"

This means the politicians can make use of their favorite stratagem: the option of biting off our nose to spite our face. That choice is what you're finding so distasteful right now because it isn't much of a choice. I do appreciate your dilemma. My only suggestion is for you is look around and see how many people don't have noses. Then you see why the politicians love their system.

[Logical]

185. Im tired of people being to stupid to realize that trump is worse. But carry on. Nt

[NorthCarolina]

189. If Trump wins, it will be the fault of Hillary supporters, NOT Bernie supporters. Plenty of polling

showing that Trump bests Hillary, whereas the same polling data shows Bernie the clear winner over Trump. If Trump is 45, which is likely if Hillary is the nominee, then the fault lies SOLELY with team Hillary and nobody else. They had plenty of warning.