Al Gore was grilled by FBI investigators four times

[geek tragedy]

in connection with a campaign fundraising scandal that produced criminal convictions. The DOJ's top campaign finance prosecutor recommended a special prosecutor.

And people are acting as though Hillary is beyond the pale because of a freaking email server and a Super PAC?

People appreciated Al Gore only when he lost. Learn from history.

[hrmjustin]

1. Peer pressure.

[Barack_America]

2. Um, national security is just a touch more important, don't you think?

[merrily]

3. Yes, the Clinton administration clearly did misuse the White House for political purposes, including

getting Bubba reelected and including fundraising.

But Democrats voted for Al Gore despite that and he won the popular and electoral votes, even though he could not carry his home state.

But then, the SCOTUS crowned Bush.

Did you have a point?

[geek tragedy]

6. What would you have said to "Bradley or Busters" who said Gore

was so criminally corrupt they couldn't sacrifice their principles to vote for him?

[merrily]

9. Nothing. Such people did not exist.

If you have a point, you are going to have do a much better job making it.

Also, I am not one who believes I know what imaginary President Gore would have done about 911.

I do, however, know what actual Senator Hillary Clinton did.

[geek tragedy]

10. True, but there were the Naderites, who told us Bush=Gore

because of campaign donations and corporate influence.

Sadly, the Naderites--the accomplices to and enabler of Bush's abuses--had a more coherent argument than the special little snowflakes crying Bernie-or-Bust.

[merrily]

15. Yes, Nader ran for POTUS, Again, did you have a point?

And do you plan to respond to the points of my prior post?

One of the huge deals about Gore in hindsight was supposedly that Imaginary President Gore would have reacted more intelligently after 911 than invading Iraq. That was sheer speculation. However, we don't have to speculate about how actual Senator Hillary Clinton actually did react.

From an old post of mine entitled Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iraq.

Address to the Nation on the Invasion of Iraq (January 16, 1991)



George H. W. Bush


Just 2 hours ago, allied air forces began an attack on military targets in Iraq and Kuwait. These attacks continue as I speak. Ground forces are not engaged.

This conflict started August 2d when the dictator of Iraq invaded a small and helpless neighbor. Kuwait—a member of the Arab League and a member of the United Nations—was crushed; its people, brutalized. Five months ago, Saddam Hussein started this cruel war against Kuwait. Tonight, the battle has been joined.

much more at:

http://www.millercenter.org/president/speeches/speech-3428

transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike

CLINTON: Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

much more at:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html

more at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026211673



Senate vote on 2002 AUMF at:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/s237



House vote on 2002 AUMF at:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/hjres114

10:16 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.


On my orders, coalition forces have begun striking selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war. These are opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign. More than 35 countries are giving crucial support -- from the use of naval and air bases, to help with intelligence and logistics, to the deployment of combat units. Every nation in this coalition has chosen to bear the duty and share the honor of serving in our common defense.

more at http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-17.html

[geek tragedy]

16. Clinton didn't invade Iraq, Bush did.

[merrily]

18. Jaysus. Talk about specious. Talk about spurious. Talk about straw man.

[geek tragedy]

21. You're trying to argue that Hillary would do something because

two men did it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. As a dispassionate observer I have to give this round to you.

[merrily]

25. Bullshit. I said we know how actual Senator Clinton actually did about Iraq.

She not only voted for it, she advocated for it on national TV.

At the same time, our biggest reason for rueing that Gore was not President--which you brought up, not I, was that we imagined he would have taken a different course than Bush did about Iraq.

My posts say what they say and they don't use big words. You don't have to re-cast them. Everyone can read them. And you sure as shut don't have to tell me what they say.

[geek tragedy]

27. You're confused as to what Senators do as opposed to presidents.

Also, Clinton was not voting on the basis of "kill the bastards." It was a bad vote and she got played, but her stated preference all along was going through the UN.

[merrily]

38. Not even a little confused. POTUS needs a war vote from Congress.

So says the Constitution.

And advocating for the war on national TV, as Hillary did, is an issue all its own.

she got played,

This is a no win for you.

First, she got played like she got shot at in an airport. She's a lawyer. Read the war resolution. There is no doubt that it authorized Bush to do whatever he wanted before his signature dried.

She took the position that the DLC and Marshall's Progressive (snort) Policy Institute advocated and the position that the PNAC letter, which Marshall signed, advocated.

Second, if she did get "played" n the most important and deadly decision government makes, what a frickin nerve she has to run for Commander in Chief. No Democrat I know IRL believed Bush. Most Democrats in Congress did not believe Bush. However, oddly enough, every Democrat who later ran for President, except Kucinich and Sanders claimed to have believed Bush.

Sorry, my imagination does not go that far. I'm pretty sure yours doesn't either. If it does, I'm sorry about your gullibility.

[NWCorona]

20. Best comment yet

[merrily]

39. But wait, folks! There's more!

[karynnj]

4. Ah, the 1996 campaign finance messes -- are you sure you want to bring that up?

-- as McAuliffe and the Clintons were also targeted.

[geek tragedy]

7. Point being people need to focus on stuff that matters

and just maybe keep this stupid "she's more corrupt than Satan" crap in check

[Wilms]

32. No way is she "more corrupt than Satan".

As far as I know, that is.

[merrily]

40. Satan posts at JPR. Doesn't seem the tiniest bit corrupt.

The JPR Satan is much more like Lucifer of the TV series. Great sense of right and wrong and which actions should and should not be rewarded or punished.

[merrily]

44. War votes matter to many. So does honesty, trustworthiness, etc.

[merrily]

17. The Clinton White House was the first to have space dedicated to re-electing the incument.

The first to use a sleep over in the Lincoln Bedroom as a reward for large donors, etc.

There is no question Bubba and Gore did use federal property for partisan politics.

Using federal resources for partisan politics? Also a federal crime.

[ucrdem]

5. I'm hoping she takes Panetta out of mothballs and makes him chief of that agency

Or maybe Jane Harman. Or Boxer. Or Bernie

[Wilms]

36. Harmen would be a great fit.

Harman was a co-sponsor of the Armenian Genocide recognition resolution bill in 2007. However, while still cosponsoring the bill, she wrote a letter to House Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Tom Lantos urging him to delay a floor vote on the legislation.[18] Her argument was that while the genocide deserved recognition, it was not a good time to embarrass Turkey, given that country's role in moderating extremism in the Middle East.[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Harman

[ucrdem]

37. That's the best you could do?

Anyway yes, I think she might be a great fit, especially since it has nothing to do with foreign policy or at least not directly. But my first choice would be Panetta who would be a great fit for just about anything.

[merrily]

43. Maybe not the best that could be held against Harman, but not bad at all.

Kinda underscores how convenient her deeply held beliefs and guiding principles are from moment to moment, how quickly she evolves (and then devolves again).

[ucrdem]

45. As a practical matter she'll need to get congress to approve

and Harman shouldn't be a problem there. She's considered a neocon but better a Dem neocon than another GOP crytpo-witchhunter.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. Yeah but in Big Al's case there was no controlling legal authority.

Lawyers and the things they say... gotta love 'em.

[leveymg]

11. He didn't quite make it into the White House, did he?

That connection with scandal may have made the difference in a tight race. Not as much as a 5-4 party line decision to stop the recount or the Florida Secretary of State monkey wrenching, of course. But is this the historical parallel you really want to raise?

[merrily]

19. The connection with federal crime was an issue, as was Monica.

My jaw dropped when the first place I saw Dimson announce he was running for President was Trinity Broadcasting Network. He promised to bring dignity and honor back to the Oval Office. Gee, I can't imagine what he meant.

[jillan]

12. But mommy - he did it too!!

[thesquanderer]

13. Gore wasn't running for president at the time.

Don't you think it would have hurt him if he were?

As for whether HRC's situation is more or less serious than Gore's I don't know... if by some chance the FBI suggests indictment, then I would say HRC's was more serious, since Gore was never indicted. If they end their investigation without such an indictment, then both are ultimately non-issues, or close to it.

No matter how you spin it, being under an FBI investigation is a negative. What Hillary has to hope for is that it gets resolved quickly. Sanders has gone easy on her, Trump won't.

[geek tragedy]

14. 4 FBI interviews and the top DOJ prosecutor publicly

calling for a special prosecutor was serious business.

DOJ officials were calling for a special prosecutor in 2000.

[merrily]

22. Gee, maybe that helped keep Gore from winning. Ya think?

I love how indictment (and no doubt also conviction, if she does get indicted) has become DU's standard for breaking federal laws by someone seeking to be the officer whom the Constitution charges with faithful execution of laws.



And, p.s., the common theme is Clinton.

[geek tragedy]

23. Bernie doesn't care about her damn emails.

Wish I could say the same about some of his supporters who have clearly lost the plot.

[morningfog]

30. He was tired of hearing about it months ago.

We are were and are. And that is largely the point now. It's a liability. More shoes keep dripping and will. And I'm still tired of hearing about it.

[merrily]

34. 1. Get it right and 2. Keep up. Months ago, Bernie did Hillary the huge favor of

saying that AMERICA (not him, America) did not care about Hillary's emails. He said that as a preface to what he was about to say next, which is what he thought, but Hillary interrupted him, so he never got to finish his thought.

IMO, Bernie was mistaken then that America did not care about her emails. Yes, America cares about jobs and other bread and butter issues, but it also cared about her emails. It's not one or the other, but both. I base that on the fact that Hillary's poll numbers stopped skidding downward after Bernie said that.

However, that was months ago and a lot more has come out since then. Anyone Hillary political rival but Bernie would have been doing with the news about Hillary's emails what Trump will do about them for months, if Hillary is the nominee. As a result of the many new disclosures since Bernie mistakenly (IMO) let Hillary off the hook, Bernie recently said it may be time to take a closer look or another look or something to that effect. (I don't remember his exact words). Totally appropriate in light of an FBI investigation and reports of government officials since Bernie last spoke on the matter.

Anyway, Americans know what Americans care about. I am not a Stepford supporter.

[geek tragedy]

35. Bernie's already lost, so he should have stuck with his original answer.

[Ned_Devine]

41. I like how you always get the last word even if it's totally pointless

[merrily]

42. When you devolve to cheap, non sequitur pot shots like that,

you should probably re-assess.

[Fuddnik]

46. We'll try to appreciate Hillary when she loses too.

[geek tragedy]

52. The point lost on many is that it's better to complain about

them after they've won than it is to do nothing to help them win.

[thesquanderer]

55. I'm not saying Gore's was not a serious issue...

...I'm saying that it's too soon to know whether Clinton's issues are more or less serious than his, since we don't know the outcome.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”

[msongs]

28. al actually won. but he bailed on demanding a recount at the right moment nt

[geek tragedy]

31. It wouldn't have been close enough to steal if people focused on stuff that matters

That campaign was the most trivial in US history--OMG Gore looked at his watch, he can't be our president!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. What avenues were left after SCOTUS ruled?

[SCantiGOP]

29. Thanks for the post, geek

[saltpoint]

47. They had planned to only grill him one time,

but they kept falling asleep when he started talking.

Took 'em four trips.

[Vote2016]

48. I wonder how much better Gore would have done if he had not fucked up his VP choice so badly.

I wonder if Hillary will fuck it up even worse.

[geek tragedy]

49. Your concern is duly noted nt

[Ash_F]

50. Was he the principal actor in that case?

Serious question. I don't know the details.

If he wasn't this is not really the same thing.

[geek tragedy]

51. He was certainly central to it.

He was the sitting Vice-President running for re-election.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Hmm you might want to look up why we do not have a special prosecutor

Mind you, not a bad idea...but you might want to use the google and find out what happened to that office under Bush '43.

Oh and you mean special counsel

[senz]

54. Al Gore is a Boy Scout compared to Bonnie and Clyde.

Just sayin'.