The mismatch between crowds and vote totals is reaching the "something rotten in Denmark" level.

[reformist2]

So Bernie regularly commands crowds of 20,000 - 50,000 - and soon to be 100,000 in California this week - while most of Hillary's crowds are in the hundreds - she's lucky if her crowd breaks 2,000. We're talking a factor of 20 difference on average. TWENTY TIMES more people show up to Bernie rallies than to Hillary rallies. You really do have to ask yourself, how can the vote totals in all these primary races end up in virtual ties, state after state?

You can claim that it doesn't matter that Hillary's supporters are virtually invisible until primary day, when they suddenly show up in droves to vote for her, kind of like 17-year cicadas coming out of hibernation, but this bizarre theory just doesn't pass the smell test. I strongly maintain that something is rotten with the election process.

You say that Hillary has won the nomination fair in square? That she received 3 million more votes? I do not believe it.

[Metric System]

1. LOL

[Octafish]

168. Explains all the insulting. It doesn't matter if you win over the Bernie supporters.

Your side has "that" taken care of. Thanks!

[PufPuf23]

207. I have been convinced that the antiwar liberal Democrat is no longer

wanted within a Democratic party dominated at the top by neo-liberals and neo0conservatives.

[Octafish]

222. It's the money.

"To get along, go along."

Money trumps peace for wars without end amen.

[bravenak]

2. Funniest thread of the day

[SCantiGOP]

199. Disagree, I think it very sad

Pure delusion.
Let's forget about counting votes and just decide based on supposed crowd size who wins.

[bravenak]

200. I just have to laugh

It has hit the point where I am positive none of this is serious

[SCantiGOP]

202. That could be it

These aren't Bernie supporters, they are really performance artists practicing their comedy routines.

There is a post in Bernie's locked forum now about a HUGE FRAUD AND SCANDAL
in the vote counting in Colorado. After you read what this game-changing, jaw-dropping incident is, it turns out Sanders picked up one net delegate due to a mis-reported precinct.

[bravenak]

206. This stuff is comical

I refuse to believe real democrats act like this every day. I never see them get this CT in real life. Ever.

[brooklynite]

3. THat's why Howard Dean and Ron Paul won so easily?

[Garrett78]

214. Exactly.

Likewise, history tells us that hypothetical general election match-up polls are worthless.

But some will keep clinging to whatever it is they wish to believe.

[LonePirate]

4. Read this article from NPR which will squash your attempt at a fraud conspiracy

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/26/475681237/campaign-mystery-why-dont-bernie-sanders-big-rallies-lead-to-big-wins

[reformist2]

35. It said absolutely nothing about election fraud, which is what I maintain has happened.

All it did was reiterate the official vote totals, which is what I reject.

[upaloopa]

56. So reject them if you want. You can go to your grave denying reality if you want. The rest of us

have a country to save.

[dchill]

77. Good luck with that.

[Onlaketime]

111. Hillarys agenda will not save the country.

Her agenda is the status quo, more of the same. The only agenda that will save the country and make our lives better is Bernie Sanders agenda. That much is obvious at this point in the state of the nation.

[chknltl]

130. Save it for what?

Vacationing oligarchs and their automated Solyent Green manufacturing plants?

[rock]

163. Spot on

Pay no attention the opinions of the BSers. Look who they're voting for.

[AikidoSoul]

209. I agree with you and am sad that you are in such hostile territory

Bernie is being cheated and that is obvious to anyone with eyes that can see and ears that can hear. Please let me offer you my warm support.

The lies being told to push Hillary into the Queen's chair are horrid.

I want to see the LAW that says the things that she and the DNC, and her loyal sycophants are doing to destroy Bernie -- are ILLEGAL.

I want to see them PAY.

And yes I am angry because we have a chance with Bernie to have REAL inspiration among millions, especially the young, whom we badly need to come in and help us change the world and our country for the better.

To me the lying that is the norm in the Hillary campaign, is killing that hope. If she is able to kill that hope, it will be a major tragedy.

I have a post about the stealing and disenfranchisement of the Puerto Rican voters today if you want to see it. It may make you cry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512131386:

hi:

[CorporatistNation]

86. NPR IS Our Version Of PRAVDA!

Pure PROPAGANDA when it comes to politics!

Softens up the listeners with friendly stories... THEN THEY put on Scott Horsley... Mr Propaganda... and "persuade" US how and WHAT to !

[SCantiGOP]

203. That makes so much sense

NOT.

[merrily]

114. Why would an article from NPR squash anything?

[robbedvoter]

5. Grateful Dead tours - same people went to all of them

I know for a fact that happened in NYC. Also, that the Washington Square rally disgusted the neighbors enough to lose him the Village

[JackRiddler]

89. Utter bullshit.

[robbedvoter]

204. Thank you for your reasoned response. I expected nothin better.

Again, I personally know people in NYC who went to all the rallies but were not Ds (WFP) - so, no vote from them.

[JackRiddler]

211. What's to say when it's utter bullshit?

So? You know a couple of people in New York. So do I. (A few thousand, presumably.) You can make up any bullshit and it's bullshit.

[reformist2]

138. Nice try, but no cigar. At least you see the discrepancy, and are trying to rationalize it.

People have a natural resistance to admit there's a problem - especially when the problem is so massive as this kind of election fraud.

But at some point, you just have to go with your common sense, and declare that the emperor has no clothes.

[SpareribSP]

6. Nah, it's reasonable.

I'm also a Bernie supporter. You got to take into account the generational gap. I mean a GENERATIONAL GAP here: Bernie in exit polls is winning 66% of those under 45 in California, and those are people that are much more likely to be newly politically energized and turn out for rallies. People who have been doing this for a longer time are much more likely to be just mailing their ballot in.

Hillary voters do exist!

[bkkyosemite]

53. I was going to write a long reply but nah...just say it's rigged ...the votes have been

manipulated...sorry that's what I believe...too many irregularities in too many states. And some have picks of the machine totals switching and lowering vote numbers within one minute time frame. Just as that expert in that courtroom stated. The win has always been in for HRC from the beginning even before Bernie started his campaign.

[upaloopa]

61. What else in life do you react to like that? At some point it has to hit you that you are lying to

yourself.

I remember seeing a TV show about conservatives who lost their houses and jobs in the recession yet denied deregulation had anything to do with it.

I can't live like that.

[bkkyosemite]

71. You can't live like what lol.........it's rigged.

[SpareribSP]

73. Elections have been rigged in the past.

The main reason why you get people complaining so much about it is because Hillary seems like the person who would have no qualms with rigging the election. Her unfavorables and untrustworthy levels are sky-high and she reeks of being a privileged executive, which is far and away out of touch with everyday people. If she had rigged things, honestly it wouldn't shock me. However, I think that there is a better explanation right now, which is that older voters haven't bought into Bernie's message for a lot of reasons.

[cui bono]

93. What else in life do you just accept without question when there is evidence of it having happened

many times before?

.

[treestar]

120. A thing happening before doesn't mean it is happening now

You'd be the one to assume an accused guilty because they had a past criminal record, I bet.

Over generalized wishful thinking.

[bvar22]

194. That begs the question....

WHY are you supporting the one who was involved in that deregulation,
and will bring us more? Hillary IS a NeoLiberal, and NeoLiberals hate effective regulation
and organized LABOR just as much as the Republicans.

I couldn't live like that.

"The CEOs of large Multinational Corporations ain't gonna like me, and Wall Street is gonna like me even less."---- Bernie Sanders

[CorporatistNation]

84. Familiar With The "Electronic Vote Flipping" Here In Florida I Even Saw It Flipped In One County

as we were watching totals come in on the computer from Marion County in 2006 for my Congressional District 5 U.S. House race. In the portion of the county that was included in my district which had at most 15,000 voters TOTAL... All of a sudden there I am with 230,000 votes for me... and 150,000 for my incumbent Republican opponent Ginny Brown-Waite. Simple as that. We ALL in the room saw it. No screen shot available or ready to take a photo at the time... But there it was pretty as you please... someone fucking with the "numbers." Obviously it flipped back to favor my opponent in the Republican gerrymandered district... but we all saw it at the time.

We actually contested the results of my election based on a 14% flip of votes from me to Brown-Waite... Based on affidavit results from voters in a Republican precinct. Had a big court hearing in Tallahassee and then the DEMOCRATICALLY controlled House Ethics Panel just discarded it... THIS is just one TRUE story from my political experience of over 10 years. Bernie is CORRECT! THE "SYSTEM " IS RIGGED... BIGTIME! America is a CORPORATIST OLIGARCHY!

[treestar]

118. You've got to get proof of it

It will never just be assumed from the crowd sizes. You need evidence to get people to agree.

It sounds like wishful thinking.

[Bayard]

166. Her, "Turn"

Agreed. I think she's being appointed, not elected. The Clintons move in the right circles to make this happen. Just like Bush in 2000, 2004. It will also win her the nomination, sorry to say. Trump is not an insider, he can't win the general. Conspiracy? You betcha. If you don't believe that, you're not paying attention.

I voted for Bernie. I believe in him. The people obviously are behind him. But this has been decided way ahead of time. And one of reasons I am totally behind him is that he's not an insider.

[KK9]

132. Yes, thank you.

I've been voting consistently for 36 years, nearly every election available, right down to local school board.
But, I would no more attend a large political rally than I would volunteer for an unnecessary root canal. I do not like large crowds, I do not like lots of noise. I've never enjoyed being in big crowds, even less so as I get older.

Plus, we live in an ex-urban area, not near any big venues. I have a full-time job, property and animals to care for, one child still at home, an elderly mother living with me...even if I liked that sort of thing, I could not put aside an entire day to travel to and attend a rally, but I can always find the 15 minutes it takes me to visit the polls first thing in the morning on my way to work.

[lunamagica]

7. California popularion tops 39 million

[yardwork]

110. Math is not on the side of the Sanders campaign.

Math seems to have an "oligarchy bias."

[boobooday]

221. That's for sure

Basically the definition of "oligarchy."

[MineralMan]

127. And there you have it.

And over 7 million in the SF Bay area alone. 100,000 is a small percentage of that population.

A crowd at a rally indicates nothing other than a bunch of people going to a rally. And the people at a rally, may not even be voters. We don't really know. All we know is that a small portion of people in an area showed up to cheer for a candidate. The actual voting will show a much more representative distribution.

Far, far more people in that area have already sent in their ballot.

[reformist2]

142. That's still 1.4%! You know what's an even smaller number? Hillary's 0.02% turnout rate.

[MineralMan]

144. 98.6% of the population did NOT go to Sanders' rally.

Count 'em.

[BootinUp]

8. I just wanna know if you make this stuff up to cause trouble, OR

do you really think this way.

[scscholar]

37. This

We all know just because someone isn't enthusiastic and not willing to commit to violence like chair throwing, doesn't mean they won't vote.

[Ed Suspicious]

55. Quit fucking lying!

[GulfCoast66]

59. LOL!!

That was easy!!!

[MattP]

9. Yes bernie is whining the primaries

[MyNameGoesHere]

10. This is almost as bad as the yard signs analogy

Yard signs don't vote, and neither do Sanders supporters. There it's all cleared up now.

[Ned_Devine]

47. Mmm! Sweet condescension! We can always count on that from your side

It's after reading a post like yours where I say to myself, "That's something an asshole would say."

[MyNameGoesHere]

60. So that's how it works?

After I read your post I thought "that's something a shithead would say" is that how we skate around the rules?

[Ned_Devine]

67. You had to steal my idea? That's pretty unoriginal

[MyNameGoesHere]

68. I should pity you

I know the grief you are experiencing is overwhelming. Get well.

[Ned_Devine]

69. Thanks

[GulfCoast66]

62. They vote

But a lot of them do not work, do not work a traditional shift, and most importantly do not have kids!

A lot harder to make it to a rally working 50 hours with three kids. Plus by the time you're 50 you realize it's all pretty silly. The vote is all that matters.

[Ned_Devine]

66. I'm 41

[GulfCoast66]

70. Lucky you, wish I still was

But just proves that you are 41. It is well documented that the level of support for Hillary goes up as voters age. Your age does not negate my theory. Now, my theory may well be BS, but your age is not determinative.

And there is a certain irony at you using that character to make your point😄. But it is one of my favorite films.

Have a good evening.

[Ned_Devine]

79. Ha! I didn't even like that movie

But I'm starting to get hip to using youtube clips in responses to people. The English major in me wants to write everything out, but every once in a while I try to be hip. That was one of those times and it didn't feel natural.

[GulfCoast66]

83. Living that!

50-year-old white male in the south working in agriculture! Not too many dude fans in my circle.

Of course there are not too many Democrats there either!

And that was one of the best scenes of the film!

Have a nice evening

[Ned_Devine]

85. You too, thanks

[uponit7771]

115. +1

[pacalo]

11. She knows it, too, or the game wouldn't have been rigged so heavily.

[Cali_Democrat]

15. What exactly does Hillary know?

You wanna flesh that one out a little more?

[sheshe2]

20. Rigged?

Please explain in detail.

[reformist2]

161. And the rigging depends on everyone being afraid to state the obvious - that it's all a sham.

[Tarc]

12. It doesn't really matter if you believe it or not

What you are witnessing is the Enthusiasm Gap; lots of people sure like to gather at events, but getting them to the ballot box isn't quite the same thing. Sanders GOTV efforts are disorganized and inadequate, esp in a state as large as California. He just does not have the means to organize effectively, while Clinton has had a ground game in place for years.

[oasis]

19. +1

[Surya Gayatri]

90. Wow, SO spot on. Thanks for posting.

[Fast Walker 52]

105. first, California hasn't voted yet

second of all, he's won a lot of states, so must have some ground game

third, why don't Hillary supporters show up to her events?

[BobbyDrake]

109. I've been out of state for work every time Clinton has been in my area. Otherwise, I'd go to one.

We've got jobs and families and, most of all, responsibilities. All of which take up a lot of our time. We don't have the luxury of being slackers. We have more concerns than where the next bong hit comes from, you know.

[Tarc]

128. 1, 2, 3

1. Indeed they haven't, but he'd have to win ~67% to remain viable for the nomination.
2. I was referring more specifically to California and its 6-7 million Democratic voters. That's a lot of people to reach when you have never done so before.
3. This is the 21st century. Why is the candidate that is supposedly "of the millennials" so reliant on antiquated methods of support metrics like crowd sizes and...yes, I have seen many DU threads on this...the number of yard signs. Yard signs. Hillary voters are seemingly more adept at networking and connecting via social media and other avenues.

[Fast Walker 52]

174. "Hillary voters are seemingly more adept at networking and connecting via social media ..."

I don't buy that at ALL.

[arikara]

198. I think her events are all staged

only pre-screened people are allowed in. And not too many can afford $100,000 for a chicken dinner for the select events.

[Marr]

178. Self-congratulatory nonsense, but you're in the general vicinity.

There is an enormous enthusiasm gap between to supporters of the two candidates, yes. You blow that off with a sort of "dumb hippies, too lazy to vote, I guess" piece of non-reason, but there is an actual, adult explanation.

The party machinery is designed specifically to keep out insurgent candidates like Sanders. That's why those dumb hippies only seem to be lazy in states with closed primaries.

Just the other day we had a Clinton-supporting DUer celebrating the fact that her niece missed the deadline to register as a Democrat, so she wouldn't be able to vote for Sanders in the primary (her preference), but would vote for Hillary in the GE. That's sort of situation is most certainly by design.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. You're only at the first stage of grief.

Denial.

You've got a long way to go...

[TheFarseer]

63. Better pray they get through the next eleven steps quickly

Or we might have a rough election night. If we field a candidate that loses to a guy running a fake collage, I'm going to be seriously annoyed.

[YouDig]

14. It's totally a conspiracy, yo. Con. Spi. Ra. Cy.

[Recursion]

16. Has he ever gotten fewer votes than his rally attendance?

I honestly have no idea, but if I were making your argument that's the first thing I'd check.

[creeksneakers2]

210. I think Trump did

He had more people at his rallies than he got in votes in one state.

[GoneFishin]

17. They really have no choice but to try to pass that explanation off with a straight face. The crowds

at Bernie's rallies are a fact. The puny crowds to see Hillary are also a fact. And they are already committed to their "cheating for Hillary" campaign.

So what else are they going to say except that huge enthusiastic crowds at rallies don't count? It makes no sense. But gullible people who fear the alternative, that the DNC has been hijacked by a bunch of oligarchs, would prefer to believe the big preposterous lie that popularity doesn't equal votes.

[Lord Magus]

135. Indeed, huge enthusiastic crowds at rallies don't "count" when it comes to vote totals.

The number of voters far exceeds the number of rally participants. Lots of people just don't go to rallies. That doesn't mean they don't vote.

[reformist2]

147. It's tough for people to admit, that we are dealing with rigged votes as bad as the Soviet Union.

I can hear the loud guffaws of denial even now - that could *never* happen here. Or even more incredibly, when they maintain that *Republicans* are capable of this, but that Dems would *never* stoop this low.

No matter what the case, I think the primary motivator behind these denials is laziness, perhaps with a hint of cowardice. If they pretend it isn't happening, then they don't have to do anything about it. And if they pretend it isn't happening, they never have to risk saying something unpopular and risk being ridiculed for it.

[GoneFishin]

193. The new meme is that unless all Bernie voters (all of them) show up at the rallies then the

huge turnout at the rallies don't prove anything.

[itsrobert]

18. Nice one

Setting yourself up for an excuse when Hillary wins California?

[artyteacher]

21. most people who vote dont go to rallies. eom

[Grassy Knoll]

26. Yep And a lot of them are too young to vote

My friends son (16) went for the eye candy, like a Bieber concert.

[coyote]

22. We all know voting fraud does not happen

This is a list of notable elections involving accusations of direct voter fraud or in which the results were procedurally contested, extensively protested, or recognized as fraudulent by a reliable international organization.

United States of America New York gubernatorial election, 1793 - John Jay received more votes than George Clinton, but on technicalities the votes of Otsego, Tioga and Clinton counties were disqualified and not canvassed, giving George Clinton a slight majority in the official result.
Bleeding Kansas election, March 30, 1855 - An election to decide whether Kansas should be a free state or a slave state involving massive immigration to sway the vote and resulted in post-election violence, including a severe beating of a US Senator by a Congressman. The events it encompasses directly presaged the American Civil War.
United States presidential election, 1876 - One of the most disputed and controversial presidential elections in American history between Samuel J. Tilden and Rutherford B. Hayes, resolved by the Compromise of 1877.
New York State Senate election 1891 in Dutchess County
Romanian general election, 1946
Bulgarian republic referendum, 1946
Hungarian parliamentary election, 1947
United States presidential election, 1960[1] Some accounts claimed that mobster Sam Giancana and his Chicago crime syndicate played a role in Kennedy's victory in Illinois.[1]
Greek legislative election, 1961
Uruguayan general election, 1971 - the result was extremely tight (the official candidate Juan María Bordaberry won the election by less than 13,000 votes) and there were accusations of fraud in some electoral circuits
Philippine presidential election, 1986 (see also People Power Revolution)
Jammu and Kashmir Legislative Assembly Election, 1987-The insurgency in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir has been linked to the allegations that the election was rigged in favour of the National Conference Party of Farooq Abdullah.[2]
Mexican general election, 1988
Burmese general election, 1990 (see also 8888 Uprising)
Algerian legislative election, 1991 (see also Algerian Civil War)
Serbian general election, 1992
Serbian parliamentary election, 1993
Chadian presidential election, 1996
Russian presidential election, 1996
Armenian presidential election, 1996
Serbian general election, 1997
Serbian presidential election, 1997
Chadian parliamentary election, 1997
Armenian presidential election, 1998 [3]
Peruvian general election, 2000[4][5]
Yugoslavian general election, 2000 (see also Overthrow of Slobodan Milošević
Sri Lankan parliamentary election, 2000
United States presidential election, 2000
United Kingdom general election, 2001[6][7]
United Kingdom general election, 2005[8][9][10][11][12][13]
2002 New Hampshire Senate election phone jamming scandal[14]
Armenian presidential election, 2003
Georgian parliamentary election, 2003 (see also Rose Revolution)
United States presidential election, 2004
Romanian general election, 2004
Philippine general election, 2004 (see also Hello Garci scandal)
Ukrainian presidential election, 2004 (see also Orange Revolution)
Washington gubernatorial election, 2004
Egyptian presidential election, 2005
Ethiopian general election, 2005
Palestinian legislative election, 2006
Ugandan general election, 2006
Belarusian presidential election, 2006
Thai general election, 2006 (2005–06 Thai political crisis)
Mexican general election, 2006
Italian general election, 2006
Hong Kong local elections, 2007
Nigerian general election, 2007
Kenyan general election, 2007 (see also 2007–08 Kenyan crisis)
Russian legislative election, 2007[15][16][17][18][19]
Armenian presidential election, 2008 (2008 Armenian presidential election protests)
Cambodian general election, 2008
Zimbabwean general election, 2008[20][21]
Algerian presidential election, 2009
Iranian presidential election, 2009 (see also 2009 Iranian presidential election protests)
Afghan presidential election, 2009
Iraqi parliamentary election, 2010
Ethiopian general election, 2010
Ivorian presidential election, 2010
Myanmar general election, 2010
Haitian general election, 2010–2011
Hong Kong local elections, 2011
Ugandan general election, 2011
Thai general election, 2011
Canadian federal election, 2011 (Robocall scandal alleging widespread election fraud and voter suppression[22][23][24][25][26][27][28])
Russian legislative election, 2011 (see also 2011–13 Russian protests)
Hong Kong legislative election, 2012
Syrian parliamentary election, 2012 (see also Syrian Civil War)
Russian presidential election, 2012 (see also 2011–13 Russian protests)
Ivorian parliamentary election, 2011
Myanmar by-elections, 2012
Armenian parliamentary election, 2012
Mexican general election, 2012 (see also Yo Soy 132)
Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2012
Japanese general election, 2012
Jordanian general election, 2013
Armenian presidential election, 2013 (2013 Armenian protests)
Kenyan general election, 2013
Venezuelan presidential election, 2013[29]
Malaysian general election, 2013[30]
Bulgarian parliamentary election, 2013
Cambodian general election, 2013 (2013–14 Cambodian protests)
Pakistani general election, 2013
Zimbabwean general election, 2013
Guinean legislative election, 2013
Mauritanian parliamentary election, 2013
Japanese House of Councillors election, 2013
Bangladeshi general election, 2014
Thai general election, 2014 (2013–14 Thai political crisis)
Libyan Constitutional Assembly election, 2014 (Inter-civil war violence in Libya)
Turkish local elections, 2014 (2013–14 protests in Turkey)
Afghan presidential election, 2014
Hungarian parliamentary election, 2014
Algerian presidential election, 2014
Iraqi parliamentary election, 2014
South African general election, 2014[citation needed]
Malawian general election, 2014
Egyptian presidential election, 2014 (Egyptian Crisis (2011–14))
Syrian presidential election, 2014 (Syrian Civil War)
Libyan Council of Deputies election, 2014 (Libyan Civil War (2014–present))
Brazilian presidential election, 2014
Ukrainian presidential election, 2014 (Ukrainian crisis)
Mauritanian presidential election, 2014
Turkish presidential election, 2014
Fijian general election, 2014
Ukrainian parliamentary election, 2014 (Ukrainian crisis)
Romanian presidential election, 2014 (2012–14 unrest in Romania)
Bahraini general election, 2014
Japanese general election, 2014
Sri Lankan presidential election, 2015
Zambian presidential election, 2015
Sudanese general election, 2015
Togolese presidential election, 2015
Ethiopian general election, 2015
Burundian legislative election, 2015 (2015 Burundian unrest)
Burundian presidential election, 2015 (2015 Burundian unrest)
Belarusian presidential election, 2015
Egyptian parliamentary election, 2015
Tanzanian general election, 2015
Azerbaijani parliamentary election, 2015
Turkish general election, November 2015
Myanmar general election, 2015
Armenian constitutional referendum, 2015[31]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversial_elections

[Triana]

33. Voting fraud rarely happens. It's statistically non-existent. But...

...ELECTION fraud happens and it happens a LOT - including in the US.

[CherokeeDem]

34. Dear god...

What does an election in Bulgaria in 1946 or Japan in 2014 have to do with this discussion? We all know election fraud occurs... I was in the middle of things in Miami-Dade County in 2000. Has it occurred in the 2016 primaries? I don't believe fraud has occurred and simply because Sanders supporters say it has is not proof... just innuendo.

Please, find a better source to support your theorem... being able to cut and paste from wikipedia is not enough.

[treestar]

124. It's absurd isn't it?

Their only proof is that they want it to be so, that the crowds have different sizes and that it has happened before. Does not meet the burden of proof. Let alone that there are 50 states with separate procedures all needing to be "rigged" separately. And Bernie won some of the states, so I guess those are the states that do no happen to be "rigged."

[Fast Walker 52]

103. you're aware of the exit poll discrepancy for Bernie versus Hillary this year?

it's quite stunning... of course, now they are not doing exit polls for the recent elections.

[smiley]

23. I'm not buying it either.

It defies logic.

[Lord Magus]

139. No, what defies logic is that the TC thinks voting is restricted to rally participants.

In reality, at a minimum all registered Democrats are allowed to vote. In half the contests, more than just Democrats can vote. In all cases, the number of voters exceeds the number of rally participants.

[Txbluedog]

24. All of Bernie's supporters show up to his rallies

While 99 percent of Hillary supporters just quietly go and vote

[Retrograde]

25. I can't speak for every Californian

but here in the Bay Area it's so rare that we get to see a candidate for president at anything other than a very expensive fundraiser that some - maybe a lot - of us are going to the free rallies in our neck of the woods, regardless of who we're voting for. And 20,000 people at this past week's Palo Alto event is tiny, considering Santa Clara county has twice the population of Vermont- and that's not counting neighboring Alameda and San Mateo counties.

I do draw the line at attending a Trump event, though.

[reformist2]

160. And yet for Hillary's events, nobody can be bothered to show up. How do you reconcile that

with your assertion that it's easy to attract 20,000 people?

[CrowCityDem]

27. It only seems that way if you think every voter gives a damn about a stupid rally.

[eastwestdem]

28. You just need to do the math. Add up all the people who attend a rally in a given state,

then divide that number by the total population of the state, and you will see that what seems like a large number is really a pretty small percentage. I know that personally, I would rather have a root canal than go fight crowds on a hot day to see anyone...I don't care how much I like them. I prefer to donate to the candidate of my choice, or attend fundraisers that have the benefit of little or no lines.

[Lord Magus]

145. I can definitely understand that.

If I'm going to spend hours in a big crowd, the Warriors better be playing the Cavs in front of it. (Not that I could afford those tickets.)

[beachbumbob]

29. Voting is hard....young voters lack maturity to actually wait in line

They see Bernie rallies as a social event and not a political event....and why rallies never translate to votes

[treestar]

125. This ^^^

Going out with friends to a concert - this is just a variation for college and high school kids and young people.

[Marr]

215. Odd that they only seem to 'lack the maturity to wait in line" in states with closed primaries.

Face it. Your darling would have been absolutely trounced by a 72 year old, unknown Jewish man if she didn't have the game rigged for in every conceivable place.

[hrmjustin]

30. Sad op!

[MFM008]

31. Nobody asked you

To believe it.
It's like not believing in science and math
Not accepting climate change.

[Triana]

32. Many who go to Sanders rallies don't vote or...

...haven't voted in a long time. They either don't bother to register and vote or register incorrectly and come election day - they're S.O.L.

And then there WAS election fraud going on - voters being tossed off the roles arbitrarily with no notice and voters whose registration was arbitrarily changed again with no notice. And this happened in NUMEROUS states. This isn't just a bunch of incompetent BOE's - this IS FRAUD.

I think those two factors are a large part of it all.

[90-percent]

36. Sanders big crowds

are due entirely to the fact that something really popular is happening at the stadium the next day and they all want to get there a day early.

It's like Don Preston said about Frank zappa's music; if you like it, you're smart. If you don't, you're dumb.

If you like Democracy, you like Bernie.

If you want more Oligarchy, Clinton is your choice.

I agree with the OP. There's been so many cases of election tampering since electronic voting that it makes every thing suspect. At the minimum, I don't like the way the establishment part of the Democratic Party seems to tilt the field in their favor by any means necessary. Establishment cronyism.

And I am going to continue to be a part of Bernies movement win or loose. He can't do it without us and asks for our help.

-90% Jimmy

[upaloopa]

64. Well I hope in the coming years when things change for the better you will look back on these days

and admit you were wrong.

We Hillary supporters are not cheering for the oligarchy nor are we ignorant of what is going on around us.

[RBInMaine]

38. Wow, the crazy is on full throttle isn't it? VOTES matter, not going to rallies. Get sane will you.

[Fast Walker 52]

104. so what is your explanation then?

do you honestly think the people going to rallies don't mostly vote?

[Ned_Devine]

39. The Only HRC supporters I know of are here

And for the most part, they're an awful bunch. And by awful, I mean spiteful, nasty, condescending, antagonistic and rotten. Look no further than the responses to your Op from them. But I don't want to believe that they represent her supporters at large. However, if they do, and HRC is the nominee, it's not going to be a good election season for the democrats.

[Nye Bevan]

44. Amusing when someone with a visible Transparency page, thanks to 5 hidden posts in 90 days,

accuses others of being "awful", "spiteful", and "nasty". If not for Skinner's amnesty you wouldn't even be allowed to post here.

[Ned_Devine]

46. You were probably on the lopsided juries for posts of mine that didn't deserve "hides"

[Nye Bevan]

48. I know, so unfair when brilliantly insightful and erudite posts like this one get hidden.

What were you saying about "spiteful", "antagonistic" and "rotten"?

[Ned_Devine]

50. Hey, you got me on that one

But the person was being a douche and I was taken by the moment

[Electric Monk]

58. Worth noting, the person they were replying to has a transparency page nearly 3x the size

and is now flagged for review.

[Ned_Devine]

80. Thanks for that bit of detective work :)

[Agschmid]

101. Yup.

[Ned_Devine]

169. For what it's worth...

...three of those hides were from me posting the stats of "people" who had signed up the previous day or maybe two days before and had already racked up hundreds of antagonizing posts. This was around the time we found out about the million dollar troll patrol put forth by David Brock's CTR group. I thought it only fair to give people a heads up as to who it was they were arguing with. Others saw fit to alert me on those posts. The other two were actual cases of me being nasty and I'll admit it. One was after Bernie lost the NY primary and my thread was entitled "F.U.N.Y." I didn't write anything else but a header on that one. The other was when someone months ago told us we'd all better get in line and only speak highly of HRC or we should face some kind of expulsion from the site. For that one my response was "Douche." Was it nasty? I guess. Was the poster being a douche? In my mind, definitely.

[Agschmid]

170. FWIW...

The correct way to handle that is to alert MIRT, or admin.

Not to sink to their level.

[Ned_Devine]

171. You are correct. This place has a way of bringing out emotions

[CrowCityDem]

54. Our responses? What are we supposed to say in response to a reality denying conspiracy theory?

[Lizzie Poppet]

74. It's remarkable how few Hillary supporters I know IRL (and other places online).

I'm not the most social person, to be sure...and I don't encourage people I don't know pretty well to talk politics. But with those caveats in mind, I have to point out that I know all of four Hillary supporters outside of this site. Four! And that modest list of friends and acquaintances is fairly diverse Of course, that's Portland, which probably goes a long way towards explaining the lack of Hillary advocates.

[LibDemAlways]

87. I have a grand total of 2 Hillary supporting

Facebook Friends, and they both like Bernie's ideas more but think Dems should all just line up like lemmings and march to the convention to crown her. Shakes head.

In real life I only know one Hillary voter, my 93-year-old mother who'd like to see a woman president -- no other reason.

[treestar]

133. Merely because you don't personally know people, doesn't mean they don't exist

One person is incapable of personally knowing the number of people it would take to have a cross section. It's like saying I don't personally know any Chinese people, so there can't be over a billion of them.

[Lizzie Poppet]

148. Nor did I make any such claim.

So...?

[Karma13612]

94. I know a HRC supporter at work.

Just her general attitude is insufferable and demanding and know-it-all.

I can't even attempt to discuss politics and Bernie with her, it's a disaster. She thinks the FBI investigation is just a Rep witch hunt.

She complains about our health insurance premiums and costs for stuff but can't see that Bernie's Medicare for all would better.

I think a lot of voters just can't see beyond their resignations that life can't be better here, and resent people pushing for what we can have if we stand as a group and fight.

[treestar]

131. Why is it that, like the conservatives

someone who does not agree must also be morally deficient?

You undermine the concept that liberals are more tolerant of other ways.

[Lizzie Poppet]

151. "planted axiom"

You just attributed that person's negative opinion of Hillary supporters here on DU to something different from what they directly stated were their reasons. That is, you attributed it to disagreement, and not to the characteristics they've observed and object to.

Fail.

[treestar]

155. and the Bernie supporters here are never nasty.

[Lizzie Poppet]

157. Once again, who made such a claim?

Wow...you're really bad at this.

[Demsrule86]

40. You assume that all the people at Bernie rallies want to and can vote...

That is where you are wrong...Hillary voters have lives; I have no desire to sit around for several hours packed in like sardine...I want to do that I will go to a concert...I rarely go to primary events and have no interest in massive rallies...now the GE is different...I would go to events then...as a volunteer campaign worker.

[Jitter65]

41. Lots of the same folks going to all his rallies if they are wishing 100 miles of each other. nt

[floppyboo]

42. What's rotten is the under-reporting of these amazing record breaking crowds!

There's more than one way to 'rig' an election.

[NorthCarolina]

116. They don't report them precisely because of OP's like this. People

become suspicious when the poll results are in and they are, as usual, contrary to what would seem to be observational common sense.

[floppyboo]

137. I agree that it is unusually suspicious, but

I have to agree with some of the posters on this thread - #'s at a rally may be HUGELY impressive but the overall % of registered voters in the area may not be enough to claim the day. Look at NY - aside from the swiping of registrations, the early cut off to register, and the closed primary, that massive and exiting crowd - even if every single one of them voted for Bernie that night - probably wouldn't be enough to stop the Clinton teams well oiled organization.

Add on top of this the non-event status that the rallies get in the media...

For instance, have turned on MSNBC this am for background noise and not a single mention of the Sanders rally in LA last night. I cry bullshit. Feel like I'm in Whoville - where is our Horton? WE ARE HERE WE ARE HERE WE ARE HERE!!!

[floppyboo]

146. forgot to add

When you have control of the media and your MO is 'inevitable' 'your turn' its easier to make any competition inconsequential. IF the rallies are mentioned, the focus is on pot smoking millennials, looky-loos, unregistered - ie it doesn't matter so don't waste your vote. Stop Trump!

I'm glad Bernie is staying in till the convention - their 'may doesn't matter' polls just may continue their downward spiral, and a stronger, more popular alternative could save the Democratic party and Obama's legacy.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Some people are too busy working, raising a family, and stuff like that,

to spend hours going to rallies. But they still are able to vote.

[Fast Walker 52]

108. so Bernie is just attracting bums with too much time on their hands?

[wildeyed]

45. cicadas?

Your OP is the only thing that is not passing the smell test. The logic stinks.

[MrMickeysMom]

49. I've had a very difficult time believing this, as well...

I see only a lot of manipulation, spin, suppression and corporately owned message by those whose jobs depend on it.

That's an Oligarchy, but people who are blind refuse to see it.

[Demsrule86]

51. Yeah what a bummer

Can't get all those folks out to vote? You do understand that in a large state like California or even a small state...there are many more voters than show up at the rallies.

[Trust Buster]

52. Think college campuses and shameless pandering. For there you will find your answer.

[FourScore]

57. It's also always the most populated counties that she wins.

Check it out on any election map that shows the population size by county. Of course, the exception are the caucus states.

[HereSince1628]

91. She's the candidate of the Establishment which has worked to be a metropolitan party

Not surprisingly she wins where the machine functions best.

[reformist2]

134. It's hard to cheat in precincts where 500 ballots are counted by hand. Big city voting machines....

....well, let's just say it's a bit easier to fix the numbers on these.

[MattP]

65. Howard Dean had big rallys

How many states did he win?

[BzaDem]

72. "Romney’s crowds are building—28,000 in Morrisville, Pa., last night; 30,000 in West Chester, Ohio"

There is no denying the Republicans have the passion now, the enthusiasm. The Democrats do not. Independents are breaking for Romney. And there’s the thing about the yard signs. In Florida a few weeks ago I saw Romney signs, not Obama ones. From Ohio I hear the same. From tony Northwest Washington, D.C., I hear the same.

Is it possible this whole thing is playing out before our eyes and we’re not really noticing because we’re too busy looking at data on paper instead of what’s in front of us? Maybe that’s the real distortion of the polls this year: They left us discounting the world around us.

Because that's what happens when you think crowd size has anything to do with election victories.

[Starry Messenger]

75. Hey, I thought that about John Kerry in the GE too.

Boy, was I wrong.

[StevieM]

76. How about New Hampshire 2008? Obama drew huge crowds but Hillary won the primary.

That's how it goes sometimes.

There is nothing unusual about this dynamic nor is it even remotely close to a reason to assert fraud.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

78. There are explanations for this phenomenon that don't involve fraud

The main explanation is this:

Bernie Sanders' supporters tend to skew younger and have a very high level of enthusiasm. Younger voters (college students in particular) show up in droves for events like political rallies for very progressive candidates. The bad news - for a variety of reasons, they are historically unreliable voters.

Hillary Clinton's core support base tends to 40+. People who came of age during the 80s and 90s. They have jobs, kids, grandkids, and not a lot of time or inclination to attend political events. However, they are very reliable voters.

[Fast Walker 52]

98. yes, but do you really think these people aren't voting for him in the primary?

going to a rally takes a fair amount of time and commitment, hard to believe they wouldn't mostly vote for him.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

173. College kids in particular are an odd bunch

Some aren't 18. Some are registered in states other than where the vote is being held. Some (defying all logic) work for candidates but aren't registered to vote.

I realize the Berners are looking for an excuse as to why they are getting screwed here, but the truth is simply that more Democrats voted for Hillary Clinton.

[Fast Walker 52]

179. most of the people I've seen in his crowds are much older than college age

[Algernon Moncrieff]

190. Obviously we all see different things, and no group is homogenous

I can tell you that when I was at the Nebraska Caucuses (where Bernie won), the Hillary side of the room looked like a retirement planning seminar. The Bernie side of the room looked like they'd leave and go to Spring Break as soon as we were done.

[stillwaiting]

185. Our system is not verifiable or transparent in many places.

So your assertion does not add up to truth for me.

We must change the system.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

192. I'm sure Hillary Clinton would have said exactly the same thing in 2008

Bernie is losing. Hopefully you can come to grips with that.

[stillwaiting]

197. You are in denial if you believe we have a secure election system.

Hopefully you can come to grips with that.

Not holding my breath though.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

208. The system is what it is

It's likely better than it was 100 years ago

Anyway - I'm done arguing with you. Someone will be the Democratic Party nominee, and I'll vote for that person. I hope you will too.

[stillwaiting]

213. I did not feel like I was arguing with you.

I have found many of your posts rather annoying though so I'll just add you to the list.

You are NOT part of the solution for this country.

Bye now!!

[Algernon Moncrieff]

218. Perhaps "debate" would have been a better chosen word

I bear you no ill will. I'm in broad agreement with Sanders on many points, but simply don't see him as a solution to the problems I want solved.

[felix_numinous]

81. Agreed

I have been hoping there are enough honest people out there.

[laserhaas]

82. Concur...K&R

[tandem5]

88. Down with Hillary! It's all lie! A million's less than a thousand beheld by eye!

[cui bono]

92. I'm with you. It is unbelievable. Literally. And exit polls don't match results either.

Look, we've seen the 'manipulating' of the election process out in the open in the caucuses, so just imagine what they're doing with the invisible ones and zeros. Why is this the only election where exit polls don't matter any more?

.

[pdsimdars]

96. And the spinners say that exit polls are unreliable. . . NO! Throughtout the history

of elections, they have been the best indicator of how the election is going.

It was only when the voting "machines" came around that suddenly what the people said coming out from voting somehow stopped matching the vote count that was being reported. Hmmmmm.

[Lord Magus]

149. No, the best indicator of how the election is going is how people actually vote.

And lying about exit polls doesn't change the actual vote totals.

[reformist2]

165. I can remember when the media wouldn't talk about exit polls because they "gave away" the result!

Exit polls used to have a reputation for coming within 1-2% of the actual vote on a regular basis. They are that good.

Until 2016, of course. When suddenly Hillary does 10-12% better on the voting machines than the exit polls predicted.

[Lord Magus]

158. No. What's literally unbelievable is that people think crowd size indicates how the voting will go.

Most voters don't attend any political rallies. They just vote.

[pdsimdars]

95. And their notion that Bernie supporters go to the rallies just for the rush and then don't vote . .

who makes that shit up?

When they had the dueling #dropOutBernie and #DropOutHillary tweets going, I went in and read them. Those people supportying Bernie were very grown up, thoughtful and intelligent. NOT the kind of comments you'd see from wild crazy wackos. From the intelligent, fact based comments, there was no way these people would "forget" the voting part of it.

[Fast Walker 52]

100. exactly-- makes no sense that they wouldn't vote

the explanations I can think of are:

1) there is truly some sort of election fraud going on (there is some evidence for this in the exit polls that have been done)

2) Bernie just has much more passionate support, and so ALL his voters go out to see him when he's around, but there's not many more than who go to see him, in contrast to Hillary who has broader but more superficial support

3) Hillary's "rallies" are not advertised well, or are designed to have many fewer people (WHY???)

4) some really misleading media about the candidates for some weird reason

5) some combination of the above

[uponit7771]

117. Of course they vote just not in the numbers that defeat HRC, look... Divine and Weaver ADMITTED they

... didn't compete in the "southern states" why would anyone believe they would even compete in the "southern state like" areas up north?

They didn't compete for those votes and lost fair and square no?

tia

[kayakjohnny]

97. !

[Fast Walker 52]

99. I really really do not understand this, and it's been bugging me for a while

the explanations I can think of are:

1) there is truly some sort of election fraud going on (there is some evidence for this in the exit polls that have been done)

2) Bernie just has much more passionate support, and so ALL his voters go out to see him when he's around, but there's not many more than who go to see him, in contrast to Hillary who has broader but more superficial support

3) Hillary's "rallies" are not advertised well, or are designed to have many fewer people (WHY???)

4) some really misleading media about the candidates for some weird reason

5) some combination of the above

[obamanut2012]

102. lolz

[Fast Walker 52]

106. what is your explanation for the discrepancy?

[obamanut2012]

122. Common sense and intelligence

[Lord Magus]

153. There isn't a discrepancy to explain.

Crowd size, just like yard signs & bumper stickers, is unrelated to vote totals. Far more people vote than attend rallies.

[Fast Walker 52]

175. I really doubt there's NO correlation, but it's probably not a strict linear correlation

Nonetheless, we're talking about massive crowds wherever Bernie goes.
That's way different from a few odd signs or stickers.

[Lord Magus]

188. Ron Paul drew massive crowds too.

Drawing massive crowds does not mean having the majority of voters.

[gollygee]

107. Not everyone shows up to a rally

Young people go to rallies, and they do favor Bernie. Also, Bernie voters have been more excited about this election, and therefore are more likely to go to rallies. And then I've read that Bernie supporters are more wealthy on average than Hillary supporters, so probably more likely to be able to leave work to go to a rally.

Hillary also isn't pushing for big crowds and rallies and that kind of thing. I think she's using her election funds differently.

[Android3.14]

112. I'd agree, but how do you explain the polls?

For "the fix" to be in would require such a vast conspiracy with so many people that it would be impossible to keep secret.

[reformist2]

136. That's a common argument, but most corporations are massive conspiracies protecting lies.

I know many people who work in Big Pharma who know their drugs are crap, but they all say nothing to keep getting the big paychecks. The same thing happens with the Mainstream Media. Whistleblowers are very rare, and are ignored when they do come forward.

[Proud Public Servant]

113. My guess: Hillary supporters have better things to do

I've said this before:

I am in many ways the right demographic for Hillary, although i'm a Bernie supporter (50-something, lifelong Dem, upper-middle class). My friends and family are in a similar demographic, and indeed are Hillary supporters, some quite passionately so.

But there's no way I'm going to a rally for Bernie, and there's no way they're going to a rally for Hillary. We're busy people with plenty of access to information (and YouTube), and we've all been around long enough to know that political change doesn't come from filling stadiums full of people (Nuremberg notwithstanding). Rallies mean nothing, change nothing, and are generally a huge pain in the ass to attend (hell, I won't even go see my favorite bands in arenas, and I love music way more than I love politics).

Long story short: I'm too old for that shit. And "too old for that shit" seems to describe the Hillary demographic to a T.

[oberliner]

119. Ron Paul used to get massive crowds

Never quite translated to winning a nomination.

[Godhumor]

121. Crowd size, bumper stickers, yard signs

We're THIS close to a post on a clicky-clicky online poll, aren't we?

The wheels on the bus go round and round...

[yourpaljoey]

123. I have yet to come across a SINGLE Hill voter

I am very social... talk to many people.
I find Sanders voters and Trump voters.
This election is rigged in spades.

[book_worm]

126. McGovern and Mondale also had big crowds and lost in landslides

Hillary doesn't gear her appearances towards huge crowds anyway and she isn't competing to be a rock star. She is winning her votes fair and square and you are just too immature to understand that apparently.

[Skinner]

129. We should choose our nominees using an aerial headcount of people attending public rallies.

All it would require is an airplane and a camera, and some people (or perhaps a computer algorithm) to count heads.

It would save the time and expense of all that complicated "voting" where people have to go to their local elementary school or community center, and then get an antiquated thing called a "ballot" and then go through the confusing process of selecting their preferred candidate. So primitive and prone to abuse!

[JoePhilly]

140. In other news ... tin foil stock rises sharply.

[Lord Magus]

141. PLEASE tell me this is parody.

Elections are not decided by crowd size. What doesn't pass the smell test is your bizarre idea that people who don't attend rallies couldn't possibly be voting.

[rjsquirrel]

143. lol whut?

This is what desperate rationalization sounds like!

Neither I nor anyone I know has gone to a political rally in this cycle.

Most of us voted for Clinton.

Bernie held a so-called "huge" rally in the Bronx right before the NY primary (supposedly 20,000 but Sanders folks routinely grossly exaggerate crowd sizes just like Donald Trump does). Two days later he lost the Beonx by a substantial margin.

Working class and minority voters -- and professional middle class voters -- don't go to rallies that much. We have jobs, unlike naive young privileged college students with the summer off.

[Lord Magus]

150. It's sad to see people on the left resorting to the old Tea Party trick of exaggerating crowd sizes.

[tarheelsunc]

152. Thanks! I needed the laugh.

With conspiracy theories like this floating around, it is hard to tell if I am on DU or InfoWars.

[Octafish]

154. Ask yourself how many people are with Bernie or with Hillary whom you know?

Great OP, reformist2. You touch on the issue that seems to be glossed over, election after election: Integrity.

[Fresh_Start]

159. reformist2...what is the average age of attendees at Sanders rallies?

while there is a range of ages...it seems pretty obvious to me that the average age is <35.

what is the average age of US voters?
what is the distribution of voters by age?

The voters 45+ years old voters outnumber the <45 by 20 million
and the average voting participation rate is >20% higher for the 45+ voters

so the fact that there is a mismatch isn't indicative of something rotten in denmark
its indicative that the rally participants are not an average representation of the voting public

[arely staircase]

162. Ask Vice President Ferraro nt

[pnwmom]

187. Or President Howard Dean. n/t

[ThePhilosopher04]

164. I don't believe it either. Obvious fraud taking place in my opinion.

We live in a world of make believe. We are all fucked.

[stone space]

167. This year, my wife and I attended campaign events of all 3 candidates days before the Iowa Caucus.

You can claim that it doesn't matter that Hillary's supporters are virtually invisible until primary day, when they suddenly show up in droves to vote for her, kind of like 17-year cicadas coming out of hibernation, but this bizarre theory just doesn't pass the smell test. I strongly maintain that something is rotten with the election process.

She got her US citizenship recently, and it was her first Iowa Democratic Caucus, and November will be her first General Election.

It was fun, and we managed to get the requisite selfies with each of the candidates (and getting to hear Gabby Giffords at the Hillary event was a high point!), but before that, I'd been hibernating for many, many more years than just 17, participating in the Iowa Caucus without attending a single campaign event for a single candidate.

Were it not for the novelty of this being my wife's first chance to vote in a US election after 19 years of marriage, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the campaign events, myself.

That doesn't mean that I didn't get out to the caucus on Caucus Day, or to the polls on Election Day.

At heart, I must be a cicada, I suppose. I'm probably not the only one.



(Btw, I lived in Baltimore when the cicadas came out in 1987. 17 year cicadas are awesome!)

[Adrahil]

172. Why have elections? Just count crowds!

What's load of horseshit.

I don't go to political rallies. I do, however, vote in every. Fucking. Election.

But hey, I guess my votes don't count.

[Hiraeth]

189. As long as counting is involved. Better than going on the strength of shouting Yeas and Nays.

[RandySF]

176. Oh boy

[Fast Walker 52]

177. Here's a question-- why is it exactly that Clinton has no large rallies at all?

Is it just a matter of security, or something else?

If it's security, how did every other presidential candidate have large rallies while they were running in the GE?

[Adrahil]

191. A number of reasons....

I think a lot of her supporters, such as myself, just don't go to huge political rallies. I mean, for what? I can hear what she has to say without the pain in the ass of participating in a cult of personality. What time I have to spend on politics, I spend volunteering for the campaign. Phone-banking, canvassing, whatever.

Secondly, they are expensive. And his huge rallies in New York didn't win him the state. What did they accomplish?

Lastly, they tend to be time sinks. They take lots of organizational resources that are better spent on GOTV efforts.

[Fast Walker 52]

217. I'm sure a lot of Bernie supporters don't go either

I didn't, when he was in town.

Large rallies do give good press, and excite people. I can see maybe why Hillary doesn't do them often, but NONE??? Weird.

[RandySF]

180. There are still many more with other things to do

Besides hanging around a rally all day.

[annavictorious]

181. Or appropriating ballot boxes

from Puerto Rican prisons when the vote doesn't go our way.

[ucrdem]

182. LOL, what's rotten is the ridiculous crowd inflation aka massive overreporting of numbers.

For the Clintons, brutal honesty and rounding way down. For Bernie, an empty stadium is a crowd of 5,200.

[pnwmom]

184. I haven't seen a police estimate of any crowd above 30K anywhere. But hyperbole

is their specialty.

[ucrdem]

186. Even the police estimates. In Oakland for example an article with a 20,000 OPD tweet

was published with this pic:



Yes, there were some aerial shots showing what looked to be 1,000 tops in front of City Hall here in the following days. But 20,000 is a complete fantasy.

[beaglelover]

183. Fine, then don't believe it. It only makes you look like an idiot.

[GoneFishin]

195. The entire DNC infrastructure is dedicated to ramming Hillary in as the nominee. Why wouldn't

they cheat? Ethics? Morality? Integrity? They have already shown that those things are way down on the list, with winning at all cost being at the top.

Of course they are cheating. The exit polls prove it. The multiple video accounts of vote fudging and caucus rule bending proves it. The kangaroo court proceedings at the DNC run Nevada shindig proves it. The 100,000 missing registrations in NY prove it.

There is no doubt whatsoever that they are cheating.

[noiretextatique]

196. 3 million could not vote in NY's closed primary

so, yeah...the numbers are skewed vs. reality.

[MFM008]

201. sigh....

[tandot]

205. Most of us just vote

We attend rallies as much as we attend Bieber concerts

We have a job, a life, family ... all of our family are Hillary supporters ... none of us going to rallies

Continue to insult us ... it hasn't worked so far and it will never work

All the Bernie or bust people insulting Clinton and her supporters ... in the real world, it will be Clinton vs Trump ... you are free to vote for one or the other, or don't vote at all ...

[azmom]

212. Many agree with you. Whether true or not, it is a symptom of

distrust in the system which will only grow a lot worse as income inequality continues to increase.

[Enthusiast]

216. Kicked and recommended! Exit polls. eom

[GreatGazoo]

219. Reports from those who try to go to Hillary's mini rallies say they are like Studio 54

You can't get in unless you are selected from the line. They let a lot of people stand there for the cameras then tell them they are full. Well not a lot by Bernie standards, but a couple hundred.

They use tiny gyms and partition them so they are 2/3 media and 1/3 "supporters".

Early rally turn out was really low and they got busted for bringing in school kids in Florida so it looks like they are going with these miniature rallies where 100 to 300 supporters will get in and the rest are camera-fodder. If this blogger is correct, they walk down the line and pick people.

http://my-day-at-a-hillary-clinton-rally.weebly.com/

[Generic Brad]

220. I intentionally avoid large crowds like the plague

My wife, daughter and I all vote in every election but we do not waste our time at rallies. Apparently we would not pass your smell test, but the majority of people are like that.